On the eve of the Sales Management Association's annual Sales Force Productivity Summit right here in the ATL at Emory University (NEXT week! March 12-13th ...use promo code TAGFAM for nearly half off at salesmanagement.org) SMA founder and commander-in-chief @Bob Kelly joins me to discuss the past, present and future of enablement through the lens of a globally recognized ambassador of Sales Management.

HIGHLIGHTS from the SHOW:

• The first time bob heard Sales Enablement was from John Aiello and his partner Drew Larsen at the Savo Group in the late 90s/early aughts. They had created a system for distributing content, they called sales asset management. Craig Nelson of iCentera was doing this as well.
• At that point Bob saw Sales Enablement chiefly as a solution for marketing.  Due to Sale's uncertain agency marketing couldn't really see nor control what the sales force was doing with their content and feared much of it was going to waste.
• The Sales Management Association tends to be more broadly sales effectiveness focused, but they have had sales enablement sponsors / underwriters co create content with them including Brain Shark, Highspot and Seismic.
• Bob's appeal on behalf of the SMA to those who have a niche focus in sales enablement / supporting the sales force is to learn about the bigger, broader issues affecting sales leadership, sales governance.
• "(At the SMA) we try to put our arms around a very diverse membership with that basic proposition, learn about the big ideas and get a broad understanding. A liberal arts education about what it means to work and to manage the sales function."

QUOTES of NOTE:

• "A criticism of sales enablement that I have that it's too overreaching in its scope and definition. Only because it's poorly defined."
• "I would like to see sales enablement making better managers.  That should be the charter."
• "The traditional function of sales management,  a nanny function of supervising, making sure people are doing the right things in the right spots, it's largely a problem we automate now. So this has at least in theory, freed up some capacity to focus on more substantive things like making the sales organization better."
• "Our research shows on average, large sales forces reorganize every three years. And often that's in response to this fundamental need to change how the sales organization delivers value."

Don't wait - hit PLAY! - to hear about all of the above

...and so SO much more.

Join in the journey with curiosity

alongside those courageously treading

the past, present, and future frontlines

of a growing function and global profession.

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Erich

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to ISE Inside Sales Enablement,

2

Season 3, Enablement History.

3

And today, I'm excited to have

in the Orchestrate Sales Studio,

4

a man that knows a lot about the

past, present, and future of sales.

5

With a side of sales enablement,

we're going to see what he has to say.

6

, Mr.

7

Bob Kelly, who is the founder

8

the Sales Management Association,

the only global cross industry

9

professional association for managers.

10

focused in sales force

effectiveness, . He's also an

11

adjunct faculty of the Goizueta.

12

I've never had to say that loud.

13

Oh, how about

14

Bob Kelly: Pretty good.

15

Erich Starrett: All right.

16

Business school right here at Emory

17

Bob Kelly: University here in Atlanta.

18

Goizueta was Roberto Goizueta.

19

He was CEO of the Coca

Cola company in the 80s.

20

Erich Starrett: there we go.

21

And there's some history, , Coca

Cola here in Atlanta.

22

I believe in fact, there's about to

be history made , on March 12th and

23

13th the 2024 Salesforce productivity

event will be hosted on that very

24

same Emory campus by Bob himself.

25

And I'm sure we'll be

hearing more about that.

26

Bob, anything else I missed

out in the intro before we

27

dive into a question or two?

28

Bob Kelly: Thanks for

plugging the conference.

29

It's March 12th and 13th.

30

So the business school is hosting

it for us and we normally have

31

an event at least once a year.

32

This is one of the first times

we've done that in the spring.

33

So hope you can join for that.

34

I would also just let your audience

know they can learn more about

35

the conference from our website.

36

Salesmanagement.

37

org.

38

And you can learn about

the conference there

39

Erich Starrett: outstanding.

40

And don't worry, folks we'll

circle back and give that to you

41

again at the end if you missed it.

42

So for now, Bob , sales enablement.

43

, fiercely curious.

44

When did you first hear those two words?

45

2010.

46

We're going back to , on my books,

the society itself didn't come into

47

being really until 2016, but the

words have been around for a minute.

48

When did you first hear them?

49

What did they mean to you?

50

What do they mean to you?

51

Bob Kelly: where was I when

I heard those magic words?

52

That's what you want to know.

53

It's difficult to understand,,

when a new term comes along.

54

Just how bad ish or long live it'll be.

55

So I do have a little bit of history

about this term sales enablement, and

56

this comes from a conversation I had a

few years ago with the person who I

57

would call the Abner Doubleday of sales

enablement, and that's John Aiello at the

58

time he was at a firm called Savo Group.

59

Savo Group was a firm really at the

headwaters of this idea, sales enablement.

60

John and his partner Drew Larsen.

61

Now this is in the late 90s, early aughts.

62

They were running a company that was

essentially doing marketing consulting

63

for B2B sales organizations these

guys are really good marketers.

64

They were creating really good content

and they were a little frustrated

65

that it was sometimes difficult

for salespeople to find this stuff.

66

And at the time that they'd created

a system for distributing content,

67

they call it sales asset management.

68

This is the precursor this is the

bronze age equivalent sales enablement.

69

Erich Starrett: Yeah.

70

I think Craig was calling

it that at the same time.

71

Bob Kelly: yeah, it's good that you

mentioned him because his firm iCentera

72

was also active around the same time.

73

In fact, Aiello acknowledges that.

74

The folks at iCentera may have also

been using this term, but they got

75

some funding in 2004, raised some

capital, and coincident with that,

76

they decided they need a more, they

needed a more highfalutin name for

77

this stuff than Sales Asset Management,

and they adopted the moniker.

78

sales enablement at that time.

79

I'll give you some perspective on

what I thought that was . It was

80

chiefly a solution for marketing.

81

The people that bought sales

enablement were marketing.

82

It was mostly solving a marketing problem.

83

That problem was Marketing was creating

content and sales may not have really

84

been making good use of that content.

85

So this solved a problem for marketing

that was related to the sales

86

organization's uncertain agency.

87

We can't really control what the

sales force is doing with our stuff.

88

We think a lot of it is going to waste.

89

Sales enablement was grounded in

this distribution problem, getting

90

content where it needs to be.

91

This is a big problem, especially in large

companies with many, thousands of products

92

those were the humble roots of

sales enablement, as I recall.

93

And that was in the early 2000s.

94

And then since then, I think it's

come to mean a little bit more.

95

Erich Starrett: So then from there, what

about the society, the sales enablement

96

society, and maybe even in the interim?

97

I always go back to the 2008 is to me

the middle when Scott Santucci and in

98

fact, we just spoke with Brian Lambert.

99

That episode will be

coming out soon as well.

100

I think Scott was the guy definitely put

the stake in the ground over at Forrester

101

and then Brian was his first hire.

102

And that clearly is our legacy

here at Orchestrate Sales.

103

Brian and I started the site.

104

But was there a bump in there when you

went, Oh, this thing's become official?

105

Bob Kelly: Yeah.

106

. I remember when the sales enablement

society came along, I always found it.

107

You know a little intimidating.

108

I'm not really the society type I

you know, I assumed you guys were

109

like eating like cucumber sandwiches,

and having high tea over there

110

Erich Starrett: Pinky's in the air.

111

Love

112

Bob Kelly: so I was a little put off

by that, but I think you know, my my

113

General impression of these kinds of

organizations is that they tend to have

114

a center of gravity one of two kinds I

mean they're either focused on creating

115

content and new practices they're

create, they're focused on networking

116

and the more social elements that is

getting people together, collaboration

117

fraternization within the industry.

118

And I think from what I've, I

know the society has been really

119

good at that second thing.

120

Erich Starrett: From a involvement

perspective, what element does

121

enablement play in your business?

122

Bob Kelly: Yeah, no it's an

important topic for our audience.

123

Our audience is a little more I guess

general their interests are a little

124

broader than sales enablement, but sales

enablement is certainly or, the kind of.

125

Associated issues of, learning

and development or content

126

management are things that are

relevant to our audience for sure.

127

We tend to be more broadly

sales effectiveness focused,

128

or sales management focused.

129

but we have sponsors in our

organization we call them underwriters.

130

They sometimes co create content with us.

131

And we've had over the years.

132

a number of vendors in this space,

including the the folks at Brain

133

Shark, for example, for a long time,

or High Spot, or Seismic I so we've

134

participated in the, in those ways,

learning what those solution providers

135

have to say sometimes to our audience.

136

And also, we do our own research

in areas related to what you

137

guys call sales enablement and,

try to stay current in that way.

138

Erich Starrett: I spent a little

bit of time on the site, and I was

139

very pleased to see that you do

in fact have a sales enablement

140

button as a subset of your search.

141

I think it was 12 or 15 pages of content

I'd love to hear more of a peek behind

142

the curtain, and again, for the benefit

of the audience, what might the value be

143

of being a member if you are an enabler?

144

Of joining officially becoming

a member of your site and

145

coming out to the conference?

146

Bob Kelly: Sure.

147

That's a nice question to ask.

148

Thank you for thinking

about it in that way.

149

We are called the Sales

Management Association.

150

We try to take the most broad approach

possible for getting at the issues

151

relevant to running the sales force.

152

My appeal to a lot of people who have

a niche focus IN sales support or

153

helping sales forces is to learn about

the bigger, broader issues affecting

154

sales leadership, sales governance.

155

And I think this helps us greatly in

the mission to support the Salesforce.

156

Sales organizations and sales leaders have

to rely on a lot of corporate functions

157

that don't always have the content domain

expertise around sales and sometimes

158

simply don't understand the peculiar

issues that affect the sales organization.

159

So for sales enablement folks, especially

those that might be creating training or.

160

Working on collateral it's important to

understand what those big issues are.

161

We try to, put our arms around a very

diverse membership with that basic

162

proposition, learn about the big

ideas and get a broad understanding.

163

A liberal arts education about

what it means to work and to

164

manage the sales function.

165

,

there are a lot of issues confronting the sales force right now.

166

One of them is the enormous

amount of change happening.

167

How do organizations build

adaptiveness into their capabilities?

168

Do we have the, the management

competency, for example, to

169

lead change in the organization?

170

Do we have the ability to change and adapt

sales process or value propositions in

171

a way that can effectively adapt when

buying preferences change or markets

172

change or the stuff we sell changes.

173

These are really big issues that matter

a great deal to sales leaders right now.

174

I think an enablement person has to be.

175

on the very leading edge of how do

we help our organizations adapt.

176

Also, what it means to help

people learn and develop in

177

sales organizations is changing.

178

Enablement as a function, has led the

way in that area in many respects.

179

Erich Starrett: If we go back to

the founding of the sales enablement

180

society, they talked about there

being 4 flavors of enablement,

181

Bob Kelly: I think all

those areas are important.

182

, the danger is getting

hung up on the semantics

183

when I hear that four part charter

charter of sales enablement, the

184

question that occurs to me is.

185

Is there anything that is not included

in that definition of sales enablement?

186

And I really don't think there is.

187

So this is a problem.

188

A sales leader will look at this

maybe in the context of we've got

189

to double down on sales enablement.

190

And they'll say, first of all,

what is this word enablement?

191

Is that a word?

192

I don't know about this.

193

What is it specifically?

194

And is there a direct connection between

The investments and activities of

195

people in this area and their expected

impact in the business in a direct way.

196

So that's a criticism of sales

enablement that I have that its too

197

overreaching in its scope and definition.

198

Only because it's poorly defined

199

.

Erich Starrett: I'm part of the problem.

200

Here's what I mean by that is that

what enablement really has gravitated

201

toward is the talent portion of that.

202

Going back to, , the roots of

the sales enablement society.

203

Their vision for the role was much broader

and it included all of those areas.

204

There are still some of us speaking

that language, the orchestrating a

205

cross functional business within a

business Position number two was that

206

it needed to be chartered and run that

way , but what most folks gravitated

207

towards was really the training And

the enablement of the sales force, but

208

not getting into those other areas.

209

So there is a little bit of attention

even in the community where folks like

210

me are going man There's still this huge

opportunity To orchestrate a dotted line.

211

That's important.

212

Cross functional business within

a business that is metrics driven.

213

Starting with a charter and strategy

that is metrics based that is founded

214

in dials that you can watch, that

the executive team is in alignment

215

with , and almost more importantly,

that are leading with the value that

216

your company can bring to that client.

217

And as those dials are moving internally

towards delivering that value, the dials

218

are moving externally because you're

actually providing value to the client.

219

And you've aligned that

revenue engine, right?

220

So what I talk about and i'm

excited about is the idea of

221

an orchestrated revenue engine.

222

Is that 100 enablement?

223

No, it's a cross functional dotted line.

224

And in fact, it might be With a CRO, CMO,

Chief Strategy, or Chief Sales Officer,

225

either of the CSOs at the head of that.

226

I love that you called that out,

and I hold myself accountable

227

to being part of the problem.

228

But to your point , there needs

to be that definition, there needs

229

to be that stake in the ground.

230

So thank you for pointing all of that out.

231

What I would like to turn back to you and

say is, So Bob, what does good look like?

232

Is there room for sales enablement?

233

And what would that look like?

234

Bob Kelly: honestly, despite, my sort of

quibbles with the name and everything.

235

I don't really care what you call it.

236

I think let's get down to the essential

value that the idea brings to the table

237

I would put that in two broad categories.

238

One is the, the efficient distribution

of content, the collateral, et

239

cetera, the distribution problem.

240

I think the technology associated

with sales enablement can

241

help this solve this problem.

242

Helping people find things,

243

also getting things to

people, which is different.

244

It's more pushing as opposed to asking

people to pull it when they need it.

245

It's getting things to people in context,

where when and where they need it.

246

The more important thing

is developing salespeople.

247

We use this term now, development,

and we use it because we

248

resist the term training.

249

It's not as a great term.

250

Training now brings to mind,

like jamming people in a room and

251

making them listen to a lecture.

252

I'm a journeyman educator too.

253

So , it's interesting to me the

similarities in, , selling and , teaching.

254

There.

255

equally challenging, I think.

256

,

we now know the limitations of simply trying to fill people up with knowledge.

257

We don't do this anymore.

258

, and in education, by the way, we call

this flipping the classroom, where you

259

get people to learn stuff on their own,

and then you bring them together to solve

260

problems in the classroom as a, give them

something to do that they're on the hook

261

for, that they can't do unless they ask

questions and make them learn that way.

262

Developing salespeople, it's very similar.

263

We can give them this information.

264

We can even push it out

to them when they need it.

265

But to really have them develop skills

and applied knowledge, we have to

266

observe them and we have to coach them.

267

And this means, , objectively looking

at them, watching them, making judgments

268

about them diagnosing root cause issues

associated with shortcomings and how

269

they're performing, having assignments

and things we can prescribe to them

270

to help them improve, judging that

improvement, monitoring that, and doing

271

all this in a way that is collaborative

and customized to that person.

272

And this is what is ideally done,

not by sales enablement, but by

273

sales management who has authority

and who has accountability for

274

the performance of that person

275

Not always.

276

In fact, it's a problem for the firm.

277

It's not a sales enablement

or sales management problem.

278

, so I see sales enablements

role is supporting that

279

essential management function.

280

I would like to see, sales

enablement at making better

281

managers that should be the charter.

282

Change it to something like that.

283

, we're going to make management

better at developing salespeople.

284

Erich Starrett: Bob in my observation

One of the biggest gaps has been that

285

sales managers a lot of times are

brought up into that role from an

286

individual contributor, and I just

heard you say that sales enablement.

287

1 of the biggest opportunities is

exactly that to close that gap.

288

What is being done right in that respect?

289

And what could sales

enablement be doing better?

290

If that is the sweet

spot of sales enablement.

291

Bob Kelly: Yeah.

292

So that's a great question.

293

one of the things that I've seen

that is really effective is to

294

rotate management candidates in and

out of sales effectiveness roles.

295

Whatever those may be called.

296

So you might have a, first line sales

manager whose promotion and a larger

297

company is into sales operations, where

they learn about process and, back office

298

technology issues and incentive comp

design and performance management issues.

299

Or you might rotate them into a

training role or sales enablement

300

role where they're, actually,

accountable for those responsibilities.

301

That's one idea.

302

Rotate people around, get them experience

in doing some of these different jobs.

303

In general, though, I think something

at a macroeconomic level is happening

304

in sales organizations that makes it

more important to develop salespeople.

305

Maybe it's a few things happening.

306

One of them is that the traditional

function of sales management, a

307

nanny function, of supervising,

making sure people are doing the

308

right things in the right spots, it's

largely a problem we automate now.

309

So this has at least in theory,

freed up some capacity to focus on

310

more substantive things like making

the sales organization better.

311

Another maybe bigger issue is that

this is labor market economics.

312

A lot is being made right now

of layoffs in the tech industry.

313

But if you look at the overall economy

and across all sectors, employment

314

is actually very robust and many

organizations are having trouble

315

holding on to the best salespeople

and attracting the good new talent

316

One way they do this is with places

that are nice places to work in and so

317

companies that develop people are better

places to work and a more discriminating

318

labor pool can make judgments.

319

Based on that criteria, they

can say, I don't have to take

320

the first job that comes along.

321

I'd like to work at a place.

322

Where I'm going to get better

and more marketable in the role.

323

And we see that, developing people

and creating nice places to work for

324

salespeople is an emerging vector of

competitiveness for sales organizations,

325

and they're thinking more about it.

326

Layer on top of that, the issue of

the sales organization has to change

327

our research shows on average, large

sales forces reorganize every three years.

328

And often that's in response to this

fundamental need to change how the

329

sales organization delivers value.

330

And so we have to be adaptable

and we also have to make people

331

better in our organization.

332

So this idea of sales enablement's

role in helping develop people, I

333

think is more important than ever.

334

And maybe more strategic than ever.

335

Erich Starrett: Bob, I feel like

we've done a really good job covering

336

enablement history and we talked

a good amount about the present.

337

I know with your event coming up next

month in your present, you're thinking a

338

good bit about the future, that event and.

339

I can only assume some of those

topics are about the future of sales,

340

the future of sales management.

341

Can we maybe land on telling us what

folks can expect to learn about how they

342

can be in the present here in Atlanta

at that event and learn about the

343

future and drive additional productivity

in themselves and their teams.

344

Bob Kelly: Yeah.

345

Happy to.

346

So there'll be four major tracks.

347

The first is a sort of general and it

is sales leadership's new priorities.

348

This is an opportunity to acknowledge

those things that we think are emerging

349

areas of importance for leadership.

350

Another is, we're calling it Bold

Futures in Sales Technology, and this

351

is really an opportunity to acknowledge

some of the hand wringing and pearl

352

clutching around AI, especially

the generative language based AI.

353

Then we'll have two other sections.

354

One is competing on sales talent.

355

This is a place to talk about the

challenges that many organizations are

356

having in attracting new salespeople

at, in certain sectors and also

357

holding on to, the top sales talent,

which is, under siege in many firms.

358

, fourthly, we'll talk about transformation.

359

Managing really a better

term is leading change.

360

In sales organizations, what's

management's role in that?

361

Where are the areas, sales organizations

see themselves changing and how

362

do firms adapt to those demands?

363

We'll have a few great speakers.

364

We'll have a President of

Corporate Sales at UPS.

365

We'll have a Senior Vice President

of Performance Effectiveness

366

at Cox Communications.

367

We'll have Senior Leaders From a couple

of other Georgia companies Great Dane

368

let's see, we'll have some folks from

Schlumberger, from Asea Brown Boveri,

369

ABB a number of other industrial firms

anyway, that's all I can think of

370

at the moment, hope you can join us.

371

Erich Starrett: Bob, thank you so

much for that and for joining us.

372

And again, folks you've got

to get out salesmanagement.

373

org.

374

And I'm very pleased to share both

in partnership with Bob here on

375

the podcast, but almost more over

on the Technology Association of

376

Georgia here locally, of which I'm a

proud member for a decade or three.

377

Has teamed up with Bob to offer

up a promotion code, which is

378

being part of the TAG family.

379

And it doesn't, if whether you're

here in Georgia locally or coming

380

from overseas, T-A-G-F-A-M is

the promo code you can plug in.

381

And Bob, tell 'em a little

bit more about that.

382

Do they get a little

knock off the price or

383

Bob Kelly: They do.

384

Yeah, you say, so that lowers

the registration cost for

385

you from $895 to $4.95.

386

The code is TAGFAM.

387

Erich Starrett: Awesome, Bob.

388

Thanks for sharing that.

389

Thanks TAG for being part of our extended

family and Bob for being right here

390

in Atlanta and leading the charge to

elevate sales management enablement

391

and sales management specifically.

392

Great to have you on the show Bob.

393

Bob Kelly: Thanks so much

for having me, Erich.

394

Really enjoyed it.

395

Thank you.

396

Erich Starrett: Pleasure.