Bill Russell: 00:00:03

Today in health, it,

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Another one of our interviews and action.

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This comes from the healthcare to healthcare event, which I was a guest

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at from the serious health care team.

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It was in Montana.

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And I was able to sit down with a handful of CEOs.

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And I'm going to share those with you here shortly.

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My name is bill Russell.

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I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of this week in health.

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It.

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A channel dedicated to keeping health it staff current and engaged.

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I hope you're enjoying these interviews and action.

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We were able to do these interviews at the health conference, the

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chime conference, and now the healthcare to healthcare event.

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I've really enjoyed doing them.

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, just a reminder.

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We're going to get back to our normal programming where I take

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a new story, break it down.

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And talk about why it matters to health.

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It.

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We're going to be doing that as soon as the interviews are done we have

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done 10 from the chime conference eight from the health conference and

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we have five from the healthcare to health care conference so i hope you

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enjoy another one of these interviews

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All right.

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Another interview from the healthcare to healthcare, uh, invitation

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event from Cirrus healthcare.

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And now we're with Doug king CIO for Northwestern medicine, both

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the school and the health system.

Bill Russell: 00:01:15

Um, yeah.

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Had to, I didn't mention that.

Bill Russell: 00:01:18

Well, welcome to the show.

Bill Russell: 00:01:19

I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Bill Russell: 00:01:20

Yeah,

Doug King: 00:01:20

absolutely.

Doug King: 00:01:20

Thank you very much for having me.

Bill Russell: 00:01:21

It's time.

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A lot of interesting conversations over the last couple of days.

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What's what's top of mind.

Doug King: 00:01:27

Top of mind for me right now, uh, is talent.

Doug King: 00:01:30

Um, I think that, uh, within healthcare and within technology, um, we finally

Doug King: 00:01:35

have, uh, technology and new tools with the cloud and machine learning

Doug King: 00:01:39

and artificial intelligence and natural language processing to make a

Doug King: 00:01:42

significant impact, uh, in a positive way.

Doug King: 00:01:45

Uh, now.

Doug King: 00:01:47

Uh, and also providers, but I think that we need the talent to do it.

Doug King: 00:01:52

And it's such a competitive landscape, uh, that, uh, you know, constantly

Doug King: 00:01:56

focusing on up-skilling re-skilling and recruiting, um, and really growing

Doug King: 00:02:00

that as a society, uh, is going to be a challenge for us, upskilling,

Bill Russell: 00:02:04

reskilling and recruiting, and you're downtown Chicago, correct?

Bill Russell: 00:02:09

For the most part,

Doug King: 00:02:10

we're in the Chicago land area.

Doug King: 00:02:12

So we are downtown and then we are also in the collar counties.

Bill Russell: 00:02:16

The collar counties.

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Yes.

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I had not heard of that before.

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So, uh, man, those are interesting topics because when I went to chime, I would

Bill Russell: 00:02:23

say the number one topic I heard was this whole idea of labor were struggling.

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People are recruiting people away from us.

Bill Russell: 00:02:29

Uh, I heard one CIO say, I can now hire in 48 states, which you

Bill Russell: 00:02:33

know, which means that talent can be, uh, gone after and whatnot.

Bill Russell: 00:02:36

What, what kind of programs, what kind of things are you putting in place to

Bill Russell: 00:02:39

attract new talent and really retain.

Doug King: 00:02:43

Yeah.

Doug King: 00:02:44

You know, I think, uh, I think that that that's right.

Doug King: 00:02:47

I mean, it acknowledges so portable across industries.

Doug King: 00:02:51

So we're competing, not just with health care, but with the Uber's

Doug King: 00:02:54

and the Microsofts and all of that.

Doug King: 00:02:56

A couple of things that we've really been focusing in on is, uh, you know,

Doug King: 00:03:00

we, we focus in on our pipeline and really looking at how we can get

Doug King: 00:03:06

interns to convert to college hires.

Doug King: 00:03:09

And then those college hires, we continue to.

Doug King: 00:03:12

Train them and bring them up to speed.

Doug King: 00:03:14

And we've done that through, uh, focusing on it over the past two to three years.

Doug King: 00:03:19

Um, and now, you know, we'll have things where we'll have, we'll have

Doug King: 00:03:21

years where we have 30 plus interns and then those interns, they go back

Doug King: 00:03:25

to college for their senior year with an offer and a job in hand.

Doug King: 00:03:29

And that has really started with.

Doug King: 00:03:31

Dividends, um, as far as having great young talent that wants to grow, um,

Doug King: 00:03:38

and it's, it's beneficial for them and it's beneficial for Northwestern.

Bill Russell: 00:03:41

You're bringing new blood into the health it world.

Bill Russell: 00:03:44

What, what does that do for your

Doug King: 00:03:45

culture?

Doug King: 00:03:46

It's, it's actually great.

Doug King: 00:03:48

A couple of things.

Doug King: 00:03:49

Number one, uh, when you bring new blood into it and at Northwestern,

Doug King: 00:03:53

uh, it's not just about them.

Doug King: 00:03:54

It also provides mentorship opportunities for a lot of our.

Doug King: 00:03:58

Uh, people that want to start to grow talent and they want to

Doug King: 00:04:01

start to work with others and really gain leadership experience.

Doug King: 00:04:06

So it's a great opportunity for them, but then bringing in the younger elements,

Doug King: 00:04:11

um, it, it has a different dynamic and that different dynamic is a more energetic

Doug King: 00:04:16

and a lot of ambition and a lot of wanting to drive and say, I'll try that.

Doug King: 00:04:20

I'll do that.

Doug King: 00:04:21

I'll go over there.

Doug King: 00:04:22

And that really just kind of disrupts in a positive way.

Doug King: 00:04:27

Um, overall for our culture.

Doug King: 00:04:29

And I think that's important, uh, especially when you start to think

Doug King: 00:04:32

about, you know, fixed mindset versus growth mindset and bringing new ideas

Doug King: 00:04:37

really helps kind of push that growth

Bill Russell: 00:04:39

mindset.

Bill Russell: 00:04:40

It's almost a, uh, it's actually creative.

Bill Russell: 00:04:44

Uh, my, my son works for a consulting firm.

Bill Russell: 00:04:46

He does, does work for a consulting firm and he's 25 years old and he's presented.

Bill Russell: 00:04:51

Yeah, multinational organizations presenting these new digital front

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end he's does UI and UX work.

Bill Russell: 00:04:57

And, uh, he called me up.

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He said, dad, I can't believe these people are listening to me.

Bill Russell: 00:05:01

I'm like, this is, this is incredible.

Bill Russell: 00:05:03

But th there's almost a beautiful ignorance that it's like, these,

Bill Russell: 00:05:07

these people on the other end, they're going, I've never seen

Bill Russell: 00:05:09

this approach to this before.

Bill Russell: 00:05:10

And that's what they bring.

Bill Russell: 00:05:11

They bring that, that energy and that, that, uh, almost, uh,

Bill Russell: 00:05:16

I call it beautiful ignorance.

Bill Russell: 00:05:17

It's just like, they don't know what they

Doug King: 00:05:18

are.

Doug King: 00:05:19

Yeah, I meet, uh, when we have new hire new talent, come in, I meet

Doug King: 00:05:22

with all of the interns as a group, I meet with every single new hire,

Doug King: 00:05:26

um, that we onboard as a group.

Doug King: 00:05:27

And we talk about growth mindset versus fixed mindset.

Doug King: 00:05:30

And it's, uh, you know, I think the, I always tell them when you're

Doug King: 00:05:34

learning here and remember you're you have the freshest ideas right now.

Doug King: 00:05:38

So challenge the status quo.

Doug King: 00:05:40

Um, and if you ask someone, well, why do we do it?

Doug King: 00:05:43

Like.

Doug King: 00:05:43

And the responses cause we always have it's the exact wrong answer

Doug King: 00:05:47

because we've got to continue to look at those things and they bring

Doug King: 00:05:50

those questions and it's great.

Bill Russell: 00:05:52

Now, one of the things my listeners are going to

Bill Russell: 00:05:54

be saying is, okay, this is great.

Bill Russell: 00:05:55

How did you do it?

Bill Russell: 00:05:57

Um, I, I found, and I think you've probably found as well that the colleges

Bill Russell: 00:06:00

and universities are like, yeah, come on board, talk to our people,

Bill Russell: 00:06:04

set up these programs, but you will also went all the way down to high

Doug King: 00:06:07

school.

Doug King: 00:06:08

Yeah.

Doug King: 00:06:08

You know, we're really starting to actually justice here.

Doug King: 00:06:11

We're starting an apprentice.

Doug King: 00:06:13

And it's, uh, something where we, I think we're having six apprentice in

Doug King: 00:06:17

my senior year of high school, and we're working with, uh, high schools

Doug King: 00:06:20

within, uh, the city of Chicago.

Doug King: 00:06:22

Um, and they are in underserved areas as well.

Doug King: 00:06:26

So it's a win, win, win, win across the board.

Doug King: 00:06:29

And the way it's going to work is they're going to be apprentices and

Doug King: 00:06:31

then they will come in for senior year.

Doug King: 00:06:33

And ideally it's just kind of an earlier step to our talent.

Doug King: 00:06:38

Cause if they're apprentices and then they can go to college, then they can be

Doug King: 00:06:41

interns and then there'll be new hires.

Doug King: 00:06:43

And if you have that, where they've known you for five years and we've known them,

Doug King: 00:06:46

uh, it's a fantastic fit from a culture standpoint, as well as from a technical.

Bill Russell: 00:06:51

So have you, I assume you have somebody who's in charge of this.

Bill Russell: 00:06:55

Yes.

Bill Russell: 00:06:55

Because it you've set up a program and those programs take time.

Bill Russell: 00:06:58

You have to develop those relationships.

Bill Russell: 00:06:59

And obviously all the HR practices that go along with that.

Bill Russell: 00:07:03

Did that take a fair amount of time or was that.

Doug King: 00:07:06

Yeah, it did.

Doug King: 00:07:07

I would say that we started at about three and a half years ago.

Doug King: 00:07:10

Um, and, uh, we do it internally.

Doug King: 00:07:13

Um, and it is absolutely, uh, now primary focus for a program manager

Doug King: 00:07:18

that we have to really stand that up.

Doug King: 00:07:21

But it's also important because we do partner with HR.

Doug King: 00:07:24

And so it's beneficial for HR.

Doug King: 00:07:26

It's beneficial for it.

Doug King: 00:07:27

Um, because we are a little unique within the technology lane.

Doug King: 00:07:32

Uh, in focusing in on that program, but we have somebody that is day in, day out.

Doug King: 00:07:36

They wake up, they get out of bed and they think about talent

Doug King: 00:07:39

management at Northwestern for it.

Bill Russell: 00:07:42

I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about innovation,

Bill Russell: 00:07:44

the academic medical centers seem to be a, a hub for innovation.

Bill Russell: 00:07:48

What, what areas are you finding, uh, solutions at and how are you?

Bill Russell: 00:07:55

I don't know, priming that pump to, to see the innovation sort of come through your.

Doug King: 00:08:01

Yeah.

Doug King: 00:08:01

You know, it's, um, uh, I, I would say a couple of things on that.

Doug King: 00:08:04

Number one, um, at an academic medical center and a lot of institutions,

Doug King: 00:08:10

not just academic, there's so many good ideas and getting those

Doug King: 00:08:13

ideas out of someone's brain.

Doug King: 00:08:16

And then through the, the system, if you will, to kind of build that up

Doug King: 00:08:20

and actually get it to be something that where you can focus in on it and

Doug King: 00:08:23

you can try it to see if it works or.

Doug King: 00:08:26

Um, we're, we're trying to do that as well.

Doug King: 00:08:28

So really a funnel for all of these good ideas from clinicians and from others.

Doug King: 00:08:32

Um, but when we look at innovation, um, a couple of things I think makes us unique.

Doug King: 00:08:36

If we're going to invest in a company or we're going to create something, we will

Doug King: 00:08:40

use that technology at Northwestern and we're doing it because we think it'll be

Doug King: 00:08:44

better for our patients, our providers.

Doug King: 00:08:46

Um, and we also think that we can make that piece of technology, uh, better.

Doug King: 00:08:51

So when we go to innovation, we think of internal ideas that we want to do.

Doug King: 00:08:56

Helped foster and create and improve upon.

Doug King: 00:08:58

And then we also go to startups that we will maybe partner with.

Doug King: 00:09:02

Um, and we'll let them into Northwestern if you will.

Doug King: 00:09:05

Um, and give them the best lab in the world when you're talking about clinical

Doug King: 00:09:09

workflows and data and knowledge.

Doug King: 00:09:11

And then we look at, uh, the digital giants and how can we partner with

Doug King: 00:09:15

the Microsofts and the Amazons and the Googles to really say, where's it

Doug King: 00:09:19

going to be value for everybody and then really move forward together.

Bill Russell: 00:09:23

It's interesting.

Bill Russell: 00:09:25

So I, you know, governance is an interesting concept here.

Bill Russell: 00:09:28

Cause I, I remember we, we did want to create that atmosphere

Bill Russell: 00:09:33

where everything could rise up.

Bill Russell: 00:09:35

There's amazing.

Bill Russell: 00:09:36

Number of great ideas.

Bill Russell: 00:09:37

So how do you, how do you focus it in,

Doug King: 00:09:40

you know, I think part of it is when we look at all these ideas, we

Doug King: 00:09:46

try not to chase the shiny object and we try to align them with the problems

Doug King: 00:09:52

that we're facing as an industry.

Doug King: 00:09:55

And we will ask our operators and we will ask the presidents and we will listen.

Doug King: 00:10:01

I think listening is probably a key element to understanding where to focus

Doug King: 00:10:05

the innovation resources, because it's finite, you know, we are a large health

Doug King: 00:10:09

system, but in the end of the day, we have a limited amount of people that can really

Doug King: 00:10:14

turn the dial on these innovative ideas.

Doug King: 00:10:16

And I think the key part is to listen to the CNS, listen to the CMOs, listen

Doug King: 00:10:20

to the problems that are having, and then try to bring solutions.

Doug King: 00:10:23

To them, with all of the new capabilities that we have within our digital

Doug King: 00:10:28

platform, uh, such as, uh, machine learning or natural language processing.

Doug King: 00:10:33

Those are just different tools now in the toolbox and a few apply them correctly.

Doug King: 00:10:38

You can solve problems in new ways that were not possible.

Bill Russell: 00:10:41

We have, uh, incubators, we have, uh, innovation arms.

Bill Russell: 00:10:45

We really almost have within healthcare, VC operating in health systems.

Bill Russell: 00:10:50

Do you guys have any of those kinds of things?

Bill Russell: 00:10:53

Yeah, we do.

Doug King: 00:10:54

We are, we're actually, um, you know, just now building out

Doug King: 00:10:57

a physical space that is going to house a lot of our innovation team

Doug King: 00:11:01

and our digital team working together.

Doug King: 00:11:03

We're going to try to take startups and sit them with them

Doug King: 00:11:07

or sit them with that team.

Doug King: 00:11:09

Some of our departments are also going to have a space there so that we can

Doug King: 00:11:13

really cultivate those ideas and kind of come up and we do, uh, we have.

Doug King: 00:11:20

Groups of people that I would say meet, um, and they try to come up with

Doug King: 00:11:26

problems to solve, but honestly, most of the good ideas come organically.

Doug King: 00:11:31

And now, um, at our health system, just because of some of the great

Doug King: 00:11:35

things that we done partnering with the clinical side of the house,

Doug King: 00:11:39

it's, it's getting out there.

Doug King: 00:11:40

So it's the organic idea.

Doug King: 00:11:42

I have this difficult problem.

Doug King: 00:11:44

I'm going to go talk to it or I'm going to go talk to innovation

Doug King: 00:11:48

and see how they can help me.

Doug King: 00:11:49

And those are probably some of the ways that the ideas come, uh,

Doug King: 00:11:53

come the best ideas come from.

Bill Russell: 00:11:55

Fantastic, Doug, thanks for your time.

Bill Russell: 00:11:57

Yeah,

Doug King: 00:11:57

thank you.

Bill Russell: 00:11:59

Don't forget to check back as we have more of these interviews

Bill Russell: 00:12:02

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Bill Russell: 00:12:04

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Bill Russell: 00:12:06

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Bill Russell: 00:12:07

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Bill Russell: 00:12:26

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