Today on the podcast, I'm speaking to Mark Morton. 

Mark is the founder of Journalise, which provides journals for mental health and wellness self care, as well as information on all aspects of mental health and wellness through his website and blog content. Mark's goal is to normalise mental health self care and ensure everyone understands and can access the appropriate tools and support whenever needed. 

Mark shares how his own search for tools and resources to support his mental wellbeing made him realise there was a gap in the market for a journal that addressed these things, and wasn’t specifically aimed at women.

We discuss the pros and cons of using UK based vs Overseas Printers, and how using a ‘try before you buy’ digital sample offer on his website has increased sales. 

There are lots of tips to take away, including the power of sharing your story when building a product brand. 

Listen in to hear Mark share:

• An introduction to himself and his business (01:36)
• What the journals consist of, and how they provide prompts if you are new to journalling (02:41)
• The benefits of journaling (04:11)
• What inspired him to create the journals (05:33)
• Identifying a gap in the market, and creating journals aimed more towards men (07:11)
• Supporting men’s mental health (09:50)
• Why the journals are undated (13:30)
• The design process for the journals (14:42)
• Finding a printer (18:36)
• Selling a combination of printed and digital products, and letting people ‘try out’ the journals (20:09)
• How the try before you buy offer converts (23:25)
• The power of sharing the person behind the product in your marketing (25:01)
• His number one piece of advice for product creators (26:38)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

Journalise Website

Journalise Facebook

Journalise Instagram

Journalise Youtube

Journalise Linked In

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Welcome to the bring your product idea to life podcast.

2

This is the podcast for you if

you're getting started selling

3

products or if you'd like to

create your own product to sell.

4

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert.

5

Every week I share friendly practical

advice as well as inspirational

6

stories from small businesses.

7

Let's get started.

8

Hi, today on the podcast,

I'm speaking to Mark Morton.

9

Mark is the founder of Journalise,

which provides journals for mental

10

health and wellness self care, as

well as information on all aspects

11

of mental health and wellness

through his website and blog content.

12

Mark's goal is to normalize mental

health self care and ensure everyone

13

understands and can access the appropriate

tools and support whenever needed.

14

Mark lives in the leafy London suburb

of Bromley with his family, where

15

they enjoy looking after their house,

gardening and venturing out to enjoy

16

the beautiful country countryside

and maybe a nice coffee and cake.

17

I'm definitely with you on that, Mark.

18

So Mark and I had a

really great conversation.

19

Mark is really honest about, um,

his own mental health and what

20

led him to create his journals.

21

Um, we spoke about how we went through

the product, the process of designing

22

and actually producing the journals and

as well as some of the digital products

23

that he offers alongside it, which

personally I thought was super smart.

24

Um, so I think there's lots to

learn from this episode and I really

25

hope you enjoy hearing from Mark.

26

So hi Mark, thank you

so much for being here.

27

Mark Morton: Hi Vicki,

great to be with you.

28

Vicki Weinberg: So can we start with you,

please give an introduction to yourself,

29

your business and your product, please.

30

Mark Morton: Sure.

31

So yeah, Mark Morton.

32

Um, I'm based around South East London.

33

Kent borders, um, live there most

of my life, but, uh, yeah, still,

34

still there and living with my

wife and my, my eight year old son.

35

Um, and my business called Journalise,

um, and I founded that with the

36

aim to support people with, with

mental health or wellness issues.

37

Um, primarily our products are journals

and particularly a guided journal

38

that helps people get into the idea of

journaling and supports them through that

39

understanding of what's going on with

themselves and what they can do to support

40

their mental health and their wellness.

41

But also I want to see us just, a bit

bigger than that, in that it's about

42

the whole support system, getting

people to understand what's available,

43

getting people to understand that it's

something they can do something about.

44

They don't have to hide behind walls.

45

They don't have to bottle it all up.

46

There are support networks out there and

tools and the like that they can use.

47

Vicki Weinberg: That's brilliant.

48

And do you, so is that the kind of

information that's in this journal?

49

Talk us through a little bit

of what's, what the journals

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consist of, if that's okay.

51

Mark Morton: Yeah, of course.

52

Um, so I have three, three journals

in, in, in the product range,

53

but the, the, the sort of core

journal is this guided journal.

54

So each day, well, firstly, there's

this, what we call a check in.

55

So each day it's getting you to check

in on how you're feeling, do a bit

56

of gratitude, um, plan your sort of

key, um, tasks for the day, um, and

57

review that at the end of the day.

58

So that, that idea of just what's

your day going to be up to and

59

how have you, how have you done?

60

But then the, the other part of that

is, you know, rather than just having

61

a blank sheet of paper, go off and

journal, it, it's um, that's really

62

hard to do for, particularly for someone

that's new to it, new to journaling.

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So I have a prompt each day that um, asks

the individual to think about something.

64

Um, and that starts at quite high

level things like your goals, things

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about rating, how you're feeling

in particular areas and so on.

66

Then starts to work through into more

deeper pieces to try and understand

67

your background, some of the things that

maybe have happened to you, the way you

68

react to things, and therefore to sort of

understand what's going on with yourself

69

and the triggers that perhaps you have,

your sort of needs and requirements and

70

how you can therefore deal with those

and find ways of coping with them.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that's brilliant.

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I say, it sounds like there's a lot

about self awareness in there as well.

73

And kind of learning a bit about

yourself as well as how to, well, when

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I say help yourself, I mean that in

a, you know, in a very broad sense.

75

Um, but sometimes it's, so I

think sometimes we can be so busy.

76

We don't even realize what's going

on, or we don't realize what, what it

77

is that's contributing to our stress

or overload, or maybe we don't even

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realize we're feeling like that until

we take a step back and go, oh, okay.

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Um, I'm not feeling great at the moment.

80

Mark Morton: No, you're absolutely right.

81

Um, and I think that it's that awareness

thing is, is a lot of the key to it.

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As you said, it's not necessarily

being aware of what has caused the

83

way you're feeling and it, because it

can be a long time ago, you know, when

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it was with me, you know, it can, it

can take several years to sort of get

85

around to doing something about this.

86

Um, and so you may not even realize

that something way back in your past

87

that has caused these feelings to

occur, and that's the sort of thing that

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obviously a therapist can help you with.

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But if you don't feel up to

taking that, it's quite a big

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step to take for a lot of people.

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Then these sorts of tools like journaling

can help you to deal with that yourself.

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You know, the self care idea, um, and,

and being able to approach that in your

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own way and at your own pace, basically.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that's really good.

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And do you mind telling us a

little bit about what inspired

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you to create the journals Mark?

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Mark Morton: Hmm.

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I mean, it's, um, it, it, it comes off

stems from basically my, my school days.

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Um, you know, I had a lot of bullying

when I was at school, you know,

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still, I can still, you know, it

does, um, upset me a bit still.

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Um, but ultimately, you know,

that, that, um, drove me to a lot

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of, um, self confidence, I guess,

issues, um, and low self esteem.

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And ultimately to, to sort of

stress and anxiety, um, which

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I guess sort of ebbs and flows.

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Um, you know, it took me a long way, a, a

long time to come to, to terms with that.

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Um, and probably a, a year

or two before the pandemic.

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So it's probably about

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Um, 2019, something like that.

109

I, I.

110

sort of finally started to

come to terms with that to look

111

for, look for things to do.

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Um, so I did managed to get some

therapy, which was, which was great,

113

but also at the same time, I was looking

for other tools that I could use and

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journaling was, was one of those tools.

115

Vicki Weinberg: That's brilliant.

116

And not so much what happened to you,

of course, I'm really sorry to hear

117

about, um, you know, the events that

sort of led up to you deciding to

118

create your journals, um, but it's

really inspiring that you took your

119

experience and then went to create

a product to help other people.

120

And I'm sure it's helping you as well.

121

I'm sure I'm right in saying

you probably use your own

122

journals now that you have them.

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Um, and am I right in saying that

I know that your journals are

124

for everyone, but there is a bit

of a focus on men in particular.

125

They just certainly have a bit of a more

masculine appearance, I guess, than some

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of the journals that you see online.

127

Mark Morton: Yeah, exactly.

128

You know, I think it's quite obvious if

you do any research online that there is

129

limited stuff aimed at men specifically.

130

Um, and particularly with journaling,

I think women are quite good

131

at journaling generally anyway.

132

It's something that a lot of women do do.

133

Um, it's also, you know, a lot of the

products tend to be um, um, more feminine

134

looking, let's say, um, in things

like, you know, the, the, the colour

135

scheme or the styling or, or whatever.

136

Um, and obviously, you know, from my

experience being a man myself and, and

137

with that sort of knowledge that men are

not great at dealing with these sorts of

138

things and don't have as much support,

don't perceive to have as much support.

139

It was something I

therefore wanted to push.

140

Um, so the content is gender agnostic.

141

It, it doesn't matter, um,

on what gender you are.

142

Um, but the, the styling is probably

a bit more masculine, um, side to

143

it, um, in the, in the sort of look

and the feel, um, but can also be, be

144

termed as quite professional looking,

um, with the, the, the sort of the

145

colour scheme and the designing of it.

146

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

147

I think they look really smart.

148

I think they, they, they don't look, um,

overly masculine, but then as you say,

149

a lot of journals you see are overtly

feminine, if you know what I mean, when

150

you look at the colours and the designs.

151

And, um, I think it's really, I think

that's really good because I can imagine

152

some men, not all, but there will be some

men who will be put off by picking up a

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journal if they felt that actually this

isn't for me, this is aimed at women.

154

And I know as you say that your

journals will work equally well for both

155

genders, but I think lots of journals

can just put people off, put men off

156

perhaps, or, and some women I assume

as well, just by looking at them.

157

And it just feels like this isn't for me.

158

Mark Morton: Yeah, exactly.

159

Yeah.

160

And I guess it's not just, you know,

okay, a man wandering around with a

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pink journal, let's say to be really

stereotypical about this, but I think

162

it's also the fact that it's not overtly

a journal and mental health thing.

163

It just looks like a notebook from the

outside, a sort of professional, um,

164

smart sort of notebook that you, you are

carrying around to, to write notes in.

165

So it, it, it sort of helps to get over

almost that, that stigma as well, I think.

166

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah,

I, I know what you mean.

167

Because I think while men's mental health

is something that's been talked about a

168

bit more now than it was, I think, I don't

know, 10 years ago, five years ago, even.

169

I think there still is a bit of a stigma

around mental health for men and women

170

isn't there and not everyone is open

about talking about any problems or

171

anything they're doing for self care.

172

Um, yeah, how have you found that

actually, when you've been talking

173

about your products, have you,

how has that played into how you

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market and promote your products?

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Mark Morton: Yeah, I mean, I

tend to market slightly more,

176

you know, that these are for men.

177

Um, because obviously that's, I guess,

my niche in some ways, um, I, you know,

178

trying to stress that, you know, this is

a way for you to express your emotions,

179

to think about these things, um, that

it's okay to do so, that you, you know,

180

you don't have to bottle it all up, you

don't have to have that macho image,

181

um, I mean, in terms of the flip side

of that, uh, I have seen some sort of

182

comments where I get, you know, that

sort of, well, why would you, or, you

183

know, the sort of, the typical comment

you get these days of Snowflake, you

184

know, that is, that's again, the opposite

side of the, the, the macho thing.

185

It's like, well, why would

I want to talk about this?

186

And, but I think the whole, as you say,

the conversation's starting to change

187

over the last few years, you know,

we're seeing a lot of, um, sort of

188

celebrities, let's say, you know, Rugby

stars, for example, even coming out and

189

talking about their mental health and

how they've been affected by this stuff.

190

So that, it particularly

is really going to help.

191

If someone like a big macho rugby

star is saying, you know, that they've

192

got mental health issues, that is

going to show to, to other men and

193

that it's okay to, to admit to this.

194

It's, it's not wrong to, it's not

anti man as such to, to, um, to, to,

195

to deal with this and talk about it.

196

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, absolutely.

197

And I think as you were saying earlier

that it's not the same as for example,

198

counselling, but counselling just

isn't always accessible to people,

199

even if it's something they think

might be good or that might be needed.

200

Because I think, um, I'm assuming that

on the NHS, they're probably very long

201

list as there are of everything at the

moment and not everyone can obviously,

202

has the option of just getting started

sort of exploring what's, what's going

203

on with yourself and that, I think

that's really, really good as well

204

for anyone who isn't sure whether,

you know, they need counselling, want

205

counselling, I think a little bit of

self exploration just might be a nice

206

sort of gentle starting point, I guess.

207

Mark Morton: Yeah, exactly.

208

I think that's, the

access is, is difficult.

209

I was very lucky in that I

had private healthcare, you

210

know, through, through my work.

211

Um, so you can self refer, so

that makes it really easy to

212

access and to talk to somebody.

213

Um, but yeah, NHS, it's a

lot harder, big waiting list.

214

So obviously, you know,

that's the first hurdle.

215

Um, so having tools like this

that are available and again,

216

helping people get started easily.

217

So that's the idea with, with the journal,

that, that idea of the guided piece,

218

as I said at the beginning, it's, it's

really hard to just open a blank sheet of

219

paper and start writing about stuff and

to write something that's relevant and

220

that is going to help you on that, that

mental health and wellness sort of state.

221

Um, so having a tool that will guide you

and help you with, with these sort of

222

exercises and techniques and so on is, is

going to be a really good way to start.

223

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, and this might be

a really stupid question, but I assume

224

that your journals aren't, um, they can

be started at any point, so you don't

225

have to start it on the 1st of January

and finish on the 31st of December.

226

They designed it so you can pick

one up today and just get going.

227

Mark Morton: Yeah, yeah, of course.

228

Uh, you know, I think with

journaling, that's, that's one piece,

229

obviously you can start anytime.

230

So everything is undated.

231

So the daily check in, it's got a space

to put in the date, but it obviously

232

doesn't have to be any particular day,

but also, and I stress this at the

233

introduction to the journal in the

actual journal itself is, you know,

234

it's great if you can do it every day,

but you don't have to, you know, it's,

235

it's get a habit, do it regularly.

236

But if you can't face it on a particular

day, fine, if you can only do it three

237

or four times a week, fine, it's,

it's what works for you and that's

238

really important because if it becomes

a burden, you're not going to do it.

239

Vicki Weinberg: That's such a good point.

240

And what you then don't want is to sort

of beat yourself up because, you know, I

241

can't even keep up with my journaling or,

you know, you don't want to give yourself

242

something else to, to worry about.

243

It sounds like you've put so much

thought into these journals, Mark.

244

So talk us through from when you were

inspired to actually create the journal,

245

talk us through how you actually went

from there to having, you know, to

246

having a finished product, because,

um, I'm assuming it's no easy task

247

to sort of design and sort of produce

journals of the quality that yours are.

248

Mark Morton: Yeah.

249

And it was quite a long journey, I

guess, partly because other things

250

got in the way, as they do with

life, you know, and it was a lot

251

of it was over the COVID period.

252

Um, so obviously there was a lot of

stuff going on at that time that,

253

um, said it was sort of before

that, that I, I started my journey,

254

um, you know, had some therapy.

255

I was also doing research

into other tools.

256

Journaling, meditation,

all these sorts of things.

257

Um, and I really

struggled with journaling.

258

It's, as I say, not easy to start, etc.

259

So I tried it a few times and

didn't really get anywhere.

260

But then I was doing more research and

there are a few products around that have

261

some sort of guides or prompts and so on.

262

Um, but I didn't feel that they were

really approaching it from a pure

263

mental health sort of aspect, um, and

utilizing things like, um, the, the CBT

264

techniques, for example, um, or, or some

of those other techniques that a lot of

265

therapists might use in their practice.

266

So, um, I spent a lot of time obviously

reading various books, researching some

267

of those techniques, doing a lot of

internet research and sort of pulling

268

together the themes and the topics that

I wanted to include in the journal.

269

Um, and alongside that, bringing in,

well, what are those other techniques

270

you can use outside of journaling?

271

So it's important, I think, to have

that toolbox of stuff that you can use.

272

You need, you need to have a few things

that you can turn to or, um, so I

273

include things like breathing exercises.

274

I talk about things like, um, gratitude,

um, meditation, those sorts of things.

275

So it's sort of introducing these topics

for then people to go away and do a bit

276

more research if it's something that

they, they feel will work for them.

277

Um, so it's like pulling

all of that together.

278

Um, and then basically put all the

topics on post it notes and stuck them

279

all over my wall, um, and started to

try and put them in, so at least there

280

was a bit of a flow as well, you know,

it's important that you don't just jump

281

straight in with something really deep.

282

Let's, let's start off with those

fairly high level, um, sort of topics.

283

And then work through those as

you go through that journey.

284

And of course, so they are related

things that there's a bit of a flow.

285

So I of course went through

various iterations of that over

286

quite a long period of time.

287

Um, and then yeah, started creating that

in, in one of the publishing software

288

tools, fairly computer literate.

289

So that was fairly easy for me to

pick up thankfully, but yeah, I

290

spent a lot of time then designing

it in, in, in one of those tools.

291

Um, and then when I was happy with that.

292

Found a, a custom journal printer.

293

Um, that I also, one that I had the

sort, the, the styling and the, the, the

294

faux leather, um, fronts that I have on

the covers that I have on the journal.

295

Those sorts of things that, you know, they

had the, the quality and the, the styling

296

that that I wanted for the product.

297

And yeah, that's sort of roughly the

start to end of how it went about.

298

Vicki Weinberg: That's brilliant.

299

Thank you for explaining all of that.

300

I'm so impressed that you designed it

yourself because I didn't know that.

301

And I would have asumed just looking

at them, that you'd have them, that

302

you'd have them designed because as

you've, sort of quality with the,

303

you know, the leather cover and the

quality of the print and everything.

304

So yeah, I'm very impressed by that.

305

And, and how easy was it to find someone

that could print them, you know, to

306

the quality that you were looking for?

307

Mark Morton: Yeah, the, um, It took

a while because a lot of the, a

308

lot of the companies do the more

regular book styling, whereas I

309

wanted something quite specific.

310

So I only found one UK supplier.

311

Um, since then I've had a couple,

obviously there's, there's, um, for

312

example, you know, Chinese publishers

and the like that can help with

313

that as well, uh, or manufacturers.

314

Um, so, you know, at least I've

got other avenues now open.

315

Um, but it's for the sort of the styling

and the quality that it's relatively,

316

um, few suppliers that do that.

317

Vicki Weinberg: It was great that you

were able to find someone and to find

318

someone in the UK as well is also a

huge plush, I guess, especially as if,

319

you know, pre pandemic or post pandemic

actually, that's what I'm trying to say.

320

Um, obviously getting things

manufactured abroad was very

321

tricky for quite a long time.

322

And that's me putting it mildly.

323

So.

324

Mark Morton: Yeah, I mean, obviously that,

you know, that It's, it's nice having

325

that, that UK based supplier, but the

issue with that of course is costs, you

326

know, that does drive up my cost quite

significantly and therefore, you know,

327

passing that on to, to the end user.

328

So I think unfortunately it does probably

mean longer term going with somewhere

329

like a Chinese supplier, but at least

I've got that backup as you say, if

330

something else occurs like a pandemic,

you need somebody that's more local

331

and is able to still supply that stuff.

332

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, absolutely.

333

And, um, the other thing I wanted to touch

on, if that's okay, is I noticed when I

334

was going through your website, sort of

in preparing for us to talk today, that

335

you also sell some digital products.

336

So I wondered if you wanted to tell us a

little bit about, first of all, talk us

337

through, um, what those are and then a bit

about how they came about, because I think

338

I mentioned to you, I actually think that

it's a really, it's a really smart idea.

339

So, um, do you want to just tell

us a little bit more about them?

340

Mark Morton: Yeah.

341

Um, so the, there's printed

and digital versions.

342

Um, I call them tasters.

343

It's just the first three weeks.

344

So there's three separate booklets,

um, for week one, two and three

345

of the, of the guided journal.

346

So it allows people to, for a, a, small

entry price, just have a go at it, see

347

what the journal's about, see what the

content is, see if it works for you.

348

Um, you know, seeing a premium product

at a certain price point, obviously

349

for some people it's going to turn them

off, whereas if there's that low entry,

350

low risk sort of option, that's there.

351

Um, and again, having it in the

two formats, personally, I think

352

writing, handwriting is really good.

353

Um, I think that's, that's a really good

way to connect, to think more about what

354

you're, what you're writing down, and

understand what you're writing and so on.

355

Um, but I think obviously it's

important in this day and age to

356

have the digital option as well.

357

And of course you can always print

that out and write still on it,

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but you've still got the option

to have that on on the computer

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and type over if you want as well.

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So it gives people that option.

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It gives easy access as soon as

you've taken that off the site,

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you can just download that.

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And do what you want with it.

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Um, and actually, I also, you know, if

you visit the website, if you sign up to

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the newsletter, I offer the first sort

of week of the download available to

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people that sign up to the newsletter.

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So they get a chance to

have a good go at it.

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Have a try of it.

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And then of course they can go on

to the full journal if they want to.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

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As I said, I do think that's,

that's a really great idea.

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Um, and because I guess because your

product is sold online at the moment,

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it's really hard for people, you know,

when you're, you're picking up, if you're

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buying a journal in a, in a store, you can

sort of open it up, you can flick through

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the pages, you can get a sense, but

obviously online it's a lot harder to do.

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So I, I think it's really, really

clever to give people a taste

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of what's inside, what sort of

things they might be journaling

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about and how the process works.

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Um, yeah, I've never seen a, a

journal that does that and I I

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was really impressed by that.

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Mark Morton: No, thanks.

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Yeah.

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Um, and actually I hadn't really, you

sort of thought of that point as well.

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Maybe I did subconsciously, but yeah,

the part of the, the experience is the

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whole, the tactile feeling and, you know,

seeing what's in it and, and, and so on.

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And you of course don't get

that through a web shop.

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So that, that is the sort of

downside of that, that online

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purchase or web experience.

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So having that, as you say, having

that quick grab of a download

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and give it a try and see what

it's about is really important.

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Vicki Weinberg: And what sort

of feedback are you getting

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from that, from, from customers?

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Are they liking the fact that

they can try before they almost

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try before they buy almost?

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Mark Morton: Yeah.

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Um, well I'm certainly getting, getting,

um, clickthroughs or, or whatever

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downloads, um, coming from that.

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Um, so yeah, it, it's, it's obviously

resonating with, with some people.

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Definitely.

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Vicki Weinberg: I think, as we were

saying earlier, for people who, that

401

are maybe journaling's really new to

them, they're not sure what to expect.

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So I think it is just really nice to

be able to just give it a go and say it

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does this work for me before committing

to buying the full journal, because

404

as you say, it is really high quality,

but therefore the price reflects that.

405

And so it is maybe a bit, a bigger

leap if you're not really sure, okay,

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what is journaling and what do I do?

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Mark Morton: Yes.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Exactly.

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Um, you know, and I, I try and support

that a bit as well, you know, in my blog,

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I've got a few guides, which then, of

course, anybody can access regardless of

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whether they bought the journal so they

can see it, get some idea of, you know,

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what's in there, what the content is and

what they might be asked effectively to

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do, or, you know, what they can, what

they can expect from the experience.

415

So hopefully that that

supports it as well, I think.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, I think it's great

that you're able to offer that kind of

417

information and as I say, I think that's

maybe what makes one of the things that

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makes your journals unique is that you're

there behind them, if that makes sense.

419

You know, to, to actually talk, to talk

about them sometimes when you buy, um,

420

what's that similar product, you know,

from Amazon or whatever, you don't really

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know any, the background and it can,

it's not quite this, I think it must be

422

quite nice perhaps for your customers to

know that there's a person behind them.

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Mark Morton: Yeah, yeah, I hope so.

424

You know, it's, that's why I put that

information on the website, a bit about

425

me, a bit about my background and why,

why I did this, you know, as I say,

426

not always something I particularly

like to talk about and necessarily

427

in public about my experiences, but I

think it's really important that people

428

realize that's why it's there and that

there's a real person behind this and

429

a reason why I created these journals.

430

Vicki Weinberg: I think so too, and I

think it is hard sometimes to put your

431

face out there and your story out there,

especially as your story is personal and

432

also it's maybe not something that you

want to think about or talk about a lot.

433

So I think it's first of all

quite brave for you to do that.

434

Um, but hopefully I think it will really

help your customers to connect with you.

435

Mark Morton: Yeah.

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And it's, it's also that, that thing about

helping other men understand they can talk

437

about it, you know, don't be embarrassed.

438

It's like, yeah, you may feel

embarrassed about it, but other people

439

are going through the same thing.

440

Other people have dealt with this.

441

Um, so, so you can to admit.

442

I'll admit to it.

443

But, um, you know, you

can find help out there.

444

You are worthy of that help,

those sorts of messages.

445

It hopefully supports those as well.

446

Vicki Weinberg: I think so.

447

And as you say, it's just really,

it is good to know whatever the sort

448

of circumstance or situation is,

it's always good to know that you're

449

not alone and you're not the first.

450

I think that's always really reassuring.

451

Um.

452

Well, thank you so much Mark

for everything you shared.

453

I have one final question if that's

okay before we finish off, which

454

is what is your number one piece of

advice for other product creators?

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Mark Morton: Um, I was trying to think

about this a bit before, before we

456

talked and I think it was, it's probably

that a bit about taking your time and

457

getting it prepared, getting it created.

458

And as I said, this took

me quite a few years.

459

Okay, there was other circumstances

going on, but don't rush it and make

460

sure you, you know, iterate, you go

back, you review it time and again, you

461

get other people to advise you and help,

help you take a look at what you've

462

produced, give you some support or other

ideas, um, do your research properly.

463

And I think that whole product

creation period is the most important

464

because at the end of the day once

you've printed it, had it created or

465

whatever, it's too late to go back on.

466

You know, you've you've invested

a lot of money at that stage.

467

And of course, time and effort.

468

You want to make sure

that that it is 100%.

469

So, you know, take your time over it.

470

Don't go, I've got to produce

this in two months and get

471

it out the door or whatever.

472

If it takes you a year, five years,

whatever, it's better to do that and

473

make sure you've got the product that

you're proud of and happy with than,

474

uh, have to sort of almost start again

because of something wasn't right.

475

Vicki Weinberg: I think

that's really good advice.

476

Thank you.

477

And as I said, you know, many times,

obviously I've seen, I have seen

478

your journal in real life, so I can

say that it is really high quality

479

and it is, you can see that it isn't

something you rushed out in a fortnight.

480

You really can tell that the time

and effort that went into it.

481

And I, I agree with you that yes, you

could have probably done something a

482

lot quicker, but then it wouldn't, it

wouldn't be the same product that it is.

483

And it's much harder to stand

behind a product where, you know,

484

actually, it could be better.

485

Um, that's not a nice situation to be in.

486

Mark Morton: Absolutely.

487

Yeah.

488

And thank you for those kind comments.

489

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, no, you're welcome.

490

Well, thank you again so much, Mark.

491

I've really loved talking to you.

492

And thank you for sharing your story and

for telling us all about your journals.

493

Mark Morton: Thank you

very much for your time.

494

It's been great to, great to

have a chat about it and good

495

to, good to see you again.

496

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you.

497

You're welcome.

498

Thank you so much for listening

right to the end of this episode.

499

Do remember that you can get the

full back catalogue and lots of free

500

resources on my website, vickiweinberg.

501

com.

502

Please do remember to rate and review

this episode if you've enjoyed it

503

and also share it with a friend

who you think might find it useful.

504

Thank you again and see you next week.