In this compelling episode of the Be Well, Do Well podcast, I sit down with the extraordinarily versatile Terry Tucker—an author, motivational speaker, and relentless cancer fighter with a storied background spanning multiple professions, from SWAT team hostage negotiation to high school basketball coaching. Terry shares insights from his eclectic life experiences and how they've shaped his unique approach to facing life's challenges, particularly his ongoing battle with cancer.

Terry discusses the transferable skills between seemingly disparate roles and how they've equipped him to handle personal adversities with a focus on impact and service to others. He opens up about his philosophy of listening to understand, rather than respond—a lesson from his days as a negotiator that he's applied throughout his life, including his coaching career. We also delve into his book, "Sustainable Excellence," exploring the ten principles that guide individuals toward leading uncommon and extraordinary lives. Terry's story is not just about facing life's toughest moments but thriving in them, making this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to be inspired to push through their boundaries.

Hello and welcome back to the Be Well, Do Well podcast.

I'm excited today to have a conversation with a remarkable individual that has experienced a lot in his life, and he is gonna share some of this with us.

Terry Tucker is a motivational speaker, author, and international podcast guest on the topics of motivation, mindset, and self-development and his professional career kerry has been a marketing a hospital administrator, a SWAT team, hostage, negotiator, and a high school basketball coach, a business owner, motivational speaker, and for the past 10 years, a cancer warrior.

He's also the author of the book, sustainable Excellence 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life, and the Developer of the Sustainable Excellence Membership.

We're gonna have an amazing conversation today.

Welcome to the show, Terry.

Amin.

Thanks for having me.

I'm really looking forward to talking

with you.

Amazing.

So that list of things that I read out, I think we're gonna have to go through some of those cuz it's a very varied and diverse list of things that you've done in your life.

But why don't you give us a little bit of a background about yourself a bit of a history on where you were and how you got to where you are today.

I grew up on the south side of Chicago.

One of the largest cities here in the United States.

I am the oldest of three boys.

You can't tell this from looking at me or from my voice, but I'm six, eight inches tall and I actually went to college here in the United States on a basketball scholarship.

When I graduated from college, I moved home to find a job.

I was actually the first person in my family to graduate from college, and I'm really gonna date myself now, but this was long before the internet was available to help people find employment.

Fortunately, as you mentioned found that first job in the corporate headquarters of Wendy's International, the hamburger chain in their marketing department.

Unfortunately, I live with my parents for the next three and a half.

As I help my mother care for my father and my grandmother who are both dying of different forms of cancer we'll get into my professional life, so I really won't talk a lot about that.

But I guess just to round it out, my wife and I have been married for 30 years.

We have one child, a daughter who's a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, and as an officer in the new branch of the military here in the United States, the Space Force.

Oh, that sounds exciting.

It is, but it's all top secret so she can't talk about it.

So you can't share any of that

with

us on the show?

No, exactly.

I don't know what to share.

So one of the things that I find really interesting about you and I when I was reading your bio about this is that you've done so many different things and I wanna look at the two different things that you've done.

One is the SWAT team, hostage negotiator compared to a basketball coach.

Both are very different from each other.

Can you tell us what skills you learned from one that transferred to the other, whichever direction you want to go in?

Yeah fate has a way of sort of catching up with you from time to time.

I, you know, as I mentioned, I, I'm the old oldest of three boys.

I have no sisters.

I went to an all guys, all boys Catholic high school in Chicago.

I went to an all male military college and I coached girls high school basketball.

So that was an entirely.

Interesting.

Entirely different situation for me.

And even my my wife and I have a daughter.

We don't have any sons or anything like that.

And I remember when we went to the OB g yn and she was like, do you wanna know what it is?

And my wife's like, oh, absolutely.

And she's like you should buy pink.

And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You need to leave it in there until it's done.

I have absolutely no idea how to raise a girl.

and I don't know I think I raised a girl kind of the same way I was raised things you learn as a negotiator, the importance of listening.

And I know people are probably like, well, listening of course, we all listen, but we don't.

Mm-hmm.

, we don't listen to understand.

We listen to respond.

So it's like, you know, Amin hurry and say what you're gonna say, because I want to get my 2 cents in versus.

Amin.

Okay.

I hear what you're saying.

I may agree with you.

I may not agree with you, but help me to understand where you're coming from and that's what we did as negotiators.

And if you think about a police officer, 99% of what they do is face-to-face with another human being.

Whether we pull you over to give you a ticket for speeding or whether we answer a radio run for a fight or whatever it ends up being.

But as negotiators.

. We weren't there with the person we were many times blocks away.

We were on the phone.

we were behind the locked door, whatever it was.

So we had to figure things out based on what people were saying, what they weren't saying and how they were saying it.

And one of the things we learned as negotiators was this sort of principle that was 7 38 55.

But what that entailed was when you're trying to communicate with somebody, 7% of it is the words that you use.

38% of it was the tone of voice that you used to communicate those words.

And 55% of it was your body language or facial expressions.

So if you think about us as Negotiators, That 55% we didn't have, because we couldn't see the person.

We didn't know how they were acting.

We were trying to negotiate a lot of times life and death situations with somebody without being able to see you said something where they're like they gotta look on their face, that like they were cringing.

And so I applied a lot of the listening part to being a coach, you know, listening to what they were saying.

and a lot of times listening to what they weren't saying.

And I'll give you an example.

I, we were playing a game.

We there was a game going on in the court and I pointed to one of my players and I told her to go in the game for somebody and she shook her head yes.

And I turned around and was coaching, and out of the corner of my eye I could see the scores table and there was nobody there.

So I turned back around to her and I'm like, get in the game.

And she shook her head yes again, and I turned around the coach, and again, out of the corner of my eye, nobody's there.

And so I looked at her like, please get in the game.

Now she's shaking her head no.

And I'm like, what do you mean?

No I brought her to me on the court I'm standing on the bench, the game's going on, on the court five feet from us.

And I'm like, I need you in the game.

And she's like, I don't wanna go in the game.

I'm like, you don't wanna play in the game, are you?

I've never heard that before in my life.

And I said, what's the problem?

And all of a sudden the tears start coming down the cheeks.

She's like, coach, I'm, I don't want to go in the game because I'm afraid I'm gonna make a mistake.

and I looked at her and I said, okay, that's not the reason.

There's more to this.

What's going on?

And she said, I, I don't want to play.

Cuz if I make a mistake, my friends in the stands will laugh at me.

And I said, well, what about your responsibility to your teammates?

The people you come out here every day at practice and work hard to be a better player yourself, but also work hard to make them better players.

What responsibility do you have to them?

And it was literally like a negotiation going on in on the court.

And eventually I got her to the point where I said, look, I know you're gonna make a mistake.

That's okay.

Just go in and do your best.

And so she went to the scores table and eventually went in the game.

But that was so foreign for me as an athlete who had played his, I mean, you worked hard in practice, so you had the opportunity to play in the game.

And now I had a player that was like, no, I don't wanna play it.

It's like, ooh.

, that was, that, that was a little bit of a psychology move that I had to learn right there in the middle of that game,

So that's interesting.

That's really interesting.

And I think we make, we all make mistakes in life.

We make mistakes all the time.

In fact, this morning I was chatting with a client and the marketing with this client just hadn't been going as planned.

And I said, well there if we give up now, then we've failed.

If we continue, then we've learned from what we tried, and eventually it'll work because it's all about experimentation.

It's all about just trying something different strategically with an educated point of view.

But I love that, that, you were able to almost negotiate your swat negotiation in the middle of a game.

I don't know which one would be more tense to having the game going in the background.

Some situation that's potentially life-threatening.

I know.

It was the game got blotted out.

It was more, okay, you and I are gonna have a like I said, I knew there was more to, I just don't want to go in the game.

There was something driving that and for her it was my friends are gonna make fun of me if I make a mistake.

And I didn't go down the whole road of, well, you know what, your friends aren't here.

Your friends aren't putting in the time, aren't committing to this team and coming out here every day in practice.

They're going home, they're having a good time.

So, you know what about your responsibility?

Mm-hmm.

to the to your players, to your teammates and things like that.

That's where I think I got her with.

Yeah.

I guess I do owe them at least the chance to go in and try to do the best I can in this.

Yeah.

That's wonderful.

Tell me a little bit about your marketing experience that you had.

And I think you mentioned that it was with a restaurant chain.

It was with Wendy's International.

They're they're I don't know.

I would imagine you have Wendy's in Edmonton.

Absolutely.

Yep.

They're an international fast food, a hamburger chain.

And I was fortunate enough to be with them.

Kind of in their heyday.

I started out at as a field marketing trainee and Amon, I swear the only thing I did was make copies, get lunch and gas up the company cars of the field marketing managers.

I got this college degree why aren't I doing more?

But part of it was about paying your dues.

They had to figure out, eventually I moved to new product marketing.

, which was much, much easier.

No.

It wasn't much easier.

It was much more concrete.

It was much more we we're gonna take a menu on it, we're gonna put it into a store, we're gonna see if it's viable and whether it's something we wanna roll out to the rest of this system.

But the thing you, you learn quickly is for every new product you put into a store, you were gonna cannibalize another product.

Mm-hmm.

. We tested for a while, hot.

We realized that well, if people are gonna buy hotdogs, then they're not gonna buy a hamburger, or they're not gonna buy a chicken sandwich, or they're not gonna buy a salad.

You have to is that a good trade off?

And I'll never forget and I learned a lot for this situation, we were testing a beef nugget, just like a chicken nugget, but it was beef and it tasted.

The visual appeal was horrible to it.

It was terrible.

But the director of new product marketing was like, you know what we should test this.

And the vice president was like, no, the focus group say we shouldn't do this with all the research says we shouldn't do it.

And the director was like, I just got a feeling this is gonna,

And if you think about it, even if we take a product and put it into a store or put it into stores in one market say we take Columbus, Ohio, we're gonna put that could be 30 stores, 40 stores, and we're gonna put that product in, we've gotta have the equipment to do it.

We've gotta have the training, the menu board items, the marketing pieces even programming the register.

So it was hundreds of thousands of dollars.

To move a product from just a simple test to, we're gonna put it into a market and see how it goes.

And I remember the vice president was like he just got fed up with the director and he is like, fine just do it, but you better be right.

He wasn't right.

It failed miserably.

Mm-hmm.

. And so we all gathered to sort of do a debrief meeting and we're all expecting like the director to either get fired outright or basically to get his hat handed to him.

And it was so funny cuz the VP came in and he was like, and we're all kinda like sitting on the edge of our chairs.

Like, oh, here it comes, you know?

And, and he did just the opposite.

He said, you know what, this failed.

But this individual believed he was doing the right thing in his heart and he challenged me and we ended up doing it, but it failed.

I want you people to be like him.

I want you people to feel like if you believe in something in your.

I want you to try to move it forward.

I want you to try to convince me that we should do that, and that was the first time I'd ever seen somebody kind of stick their neck out, kind of put themselves out on a limb because they believed in their heart that we should try this, we should at least test this in a market and take it farther than we already had.

And it was a pretty gutsy move.

And it doesn't happen very much in business.

People aren't willing to stick their neck out for something that they believe in or that they think it was right.

And I learned a pretty valuable lesson that day.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

. Little decisions that can have big implications, right?

You think it's a small little change that you're making, but everything else that goes along with it.

Now, when I go back and I look at the list of different things that you've done, I'm seeing a common thread here.

So you've got marketing executive, swat, team negotiator, basketball coach, motivational speaker.

All of these actually have a strong element of marketing now, you know, I'm putting my marketer's hat on is that even when we're trying to put our kids to bed, there's an element of marketing in that.

Right.

Getting them ready for negotiating depending on how you look at it.

Yes.

, exactly.

Negotiating and marketing.

When it comes to your motivational speaker, role, tell me a little bit about how you market the end result for somebody and I'll give you some context around, We often have clients or friends or people that come to us and they say, you know, I would love to learn how to play piano.

Or, there's an example I heard I can't remember exactly who the pianist was or the violinist was there, but somebody came up to the pianist and said I would give up everything to be able to play as well as you.

And the response was, and I'm, it's totally I don't know who it was, but the response was, I.

I did give up everything to be able to play like this, but people aren't willing to do that.

They're not willing to take the action or to give up certain things in their life.

So when you're trying to coach somebody and you're trying to explain to them that you're here, this is where you're trying to get, can you walk us through some kind of framework that how you would market the end results of them to get them to actually take.

I think it has to , when you were saying that I was thinking about an American football player here by the name of Jerry Rice who played for the San Francisco 49ers, and he had a quote that went, today I will do what others won't, so that tomorrow I can do what others can't.

Yeah.

Love it.

And I think it really does come down to how bad do you want this it's just this, oh, I'd kind like to play the piano, but I'm not willing to put in the hours.

I think about my daughter played basketball at the United States Air Force Academy.

She got fortunately or unfortunately got my height and is six foot two and has almost an a national basketball NBA three point shot.

what nobody saw.

They saw the, that shot during the games when she would play, but what nobody saw was the tens of thousands of shots.

That she would put up in the gym during the summer when it was hot and muggy and sweaty and you're putting in the work while everybody else is sleeping in.

You don't see that, you don't see the ugliness.

You don't see the number of hours that somebody works at their job.

The overtime they put in the lack of time they spend with their family or on their hobbies and stuff like that, so that someday they might.

Get the opportunity to sit in that corner office and direct their team or direct their business.

Saying somebody in medical school, you don't see all the hours they put in.

You don't see the nights, the weekends, the lack of sleep not being with their family, so that someday they might.

get the opportunity to perform that life-saving surgery and things like that.

It's all the thing, it's all the ugliness, it's all the tough stuff that nobody sees, but they see the end result.

Oh, look at that guy.

Or look at that woman, look what they've done, and things like that.

So I kind of look at people and say, how much do you want it?

Because a lot of people don't.

responsibility for their own success and happiness.

I've seen this in my life.

I've seen where people have started down the road toward a goal, and then they butt up against an impediment.

Something gets in their way and they can't get over it.

They can't get around it, they can't get through it, and so they quit.

Mm-hmm.

. But they don't just quit now they gotta blame somebody I've gotta blame my parents, or I've gotta blame my boss, or I've gotta blame my station in.

Very few people take personal responsibility for their own success and happiness.

And so I, I always tell people it's like, how bad do you want this?

How much are you willing to do?

Are you willing to give up the comfort that you have now to do the things, to do the hard things, to do the ugly work that nobody's gonna see with the understanding that you may never reach that?

But the other thing that I tell him is if you have even this much grit in your life, you'll be so much further down the road than the vast majority of people who never start that.

I'll end with this.

There's an entrepreneur here in the United States by the name of Ed Millet, and he talks about the four types of people in the world, and I love this.

He said, the first type of people are the un.

He said that's the vast majority of people you will come across.

He said the second group are the motivated, pretty simple kind of if I do this, then I will get that.

It's kind of a low level of being successful, but it's very effective for a lot of people.

. And then he said the third group are the inspirational people.

Inspiration coming from two words in spirit.

You move people with your energy.

And then the fourth group are the aspirational people where people want to be like you.

So I would ask that person which one are.

Are you the unmotivated person who say, yeah, I want this, but I'm really not willing to put in the work to get there?

Or are you the aspirational type of person where you know what, you're working so hard that people want to be like you?

That's amazing.

I read a lot of books and that's the first time I've heard that articulated.

I never heard it, but articulated that well, that's that's amazing.

Thank you for that.

Now I have a feeling.

What you just said, all of what you, just what you just said about motivation led to the title of your book, because I love the title 10 prints or so.

So the book is Sustainable Excellence, 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life.

Those two things really jumped out for me is uncommon and extraordinary.

Can you talk a little bit about why you decided to subtitle that book that way?

Yeah, I, so you know, people always ask me sustainable excellence, well, what is.

and my response is, I don't know.

And they're like, what do you mean you don't know?

You wrote the book.

How can you not know what excellence is?

But the way I try to describe it is this, you and I may look at a company, you and I may look at a team, you and you may say, you know what, man they are excellent.

And I may look at 'em and say, yeah, I think they're good.

But I'm not sure they're excellent.

Excellence to me.

Is defined by ourselves.

It's kind of like beauty.

It's in the eye of the beholder.

You've gotta decide what excellence is for you , and I'll tell you kind of how the book came about and that'll, that may answer part of your question.

So the r the book was really born outta two conversations that I had.

One was with a former player that I had coached in high school who had moved to Colorado with her fiance and my wife and I had dinner with them one night.

And I remember saying to her I'm really excited that you're living close.

and I can watch you find and live your purpose.

And she kind of got quiet for a while and then she looked at me and she said, well, coach, what do you think my purpose is?

I said, I, I have absolutely no idea what your purpose is, but that's what your life should be about finding the reason you were put on the face of this earth using your unique gifts and talents and living that reason.

So that was one conversation.

And then I had a young man in college who reached out to me on social media and he said, what do you think of the most important things I should learn to not just be successful in my job or in business, but to be successful in.

Amin.

I didn't want to give him that get up early, work hard help.

I, I didn't want to give him that because you can go read a book about that.

I wanted to see if I could go deeper with him.

So I spent some time and eventually kind of had these 10 ideas, these 10 thoughts, these 10 principles, and so I sent them to him and then I stepped back and I was like I got a life story that fits underneath this principle, or I know somebody whose life emulates that principle.

So literally during the three to four month period after I had my leg amputated because of my cancer, while I was healing, I sat down at the computer every day and I built stories.

And they're real stories about real people.

Some of 'em are about me, but a lot of 'em are about other people and they're, like I said, real stories about real people.

and that's pretty much how sustainable excellence came to be.

And I've got these principles and it's fun for me as an author when somebody reads the book and reaches out because there's always one principle that seems to be that one that resonates with the reader.

And it's different for everybody.

And it, it's just fun for me and it's a great starting point for the two of us to just start talking about what that meant to them in the.

. That's wonderful.

Yeah.

I love that, that you're saying that one principle really jumped out at him.

When I'm reading a book, if there's one thing that I get out of it, usually I'm happy with that and I'll stop there.

Yeah.

And I'll come back to it later if I really want to.

But that one thing is so

important.

It is.

And I remember when I was talking to my publisher he said, Terry, 90% of people that start a book never.

They, like you said, they get something really good out of it.

Okay, I got something good and they put it down and they don't finish it.

And the other thing that I thought was kind of sad that I read recently was that, and I think this study was just in the United States, it was like 84 or 88% of people that were surveyed believed they had a book in them.

Either a fiction book that they wanted to write or some type of a memoir that they wanted to.

, and yet less than 1% of those people will ever write that book.

We all have a story.

We all have something that we think we want to share with the world, and so few people ever get out there and actually do that.

and it's so much easier now than it was years ago even.

Okay.

Even a year ago to write and publish a book.

So that's, it's a sad fact.

But that just shows the tenacity that you have, right.

And the drive that you have.

Now I wanna talk about something that's always a little bit challenging to talk about is cancer.

So you have so much energy.

Like I've interviewed a lot of guests and you have a lot of energy compared to them, and I love that.

I think it's so fun to, to talk to you.

Now, when you're an athlete, when you got cancer and you had to have your foot, then eventually your leg amputated.

What was it that kept you going or how did you motivate yourself to have this

energy?

That's a great question.

I've always been a little kind of like a Super Bowl sort of bouncing off the wall.

I've always had a lot of energy and I guess one of the things that has motivated me through this whole process is what I learned from being part of a basketball team.

I started playing basketball when I was nine years old and played all the way up until I graduated from, And I think one of the things that, for me it was team sports, but I think whatever team you're on, whether it's a business team, whether it's you know, your family at your church whatever it is for you.

But what team sports taught me was the importance of being part of something that's bigger than yourself.

You realize on a team that if you don't do your job, not only do you let yourself down, but you let your teammates down, your coaches down, your fans down, your family down.

And if you think about it, the biggest team game that we all play, Is this game of life.

So I am currently being treated for cancer.

I have tumors in my lungs and I go every three weeks and I'm on a clinical trial drug that more than likely is not going to save my life.

But the way I look at it and the reason I keep doing this is because maybe someday, That drug will save the life of somebody five years from now, 10 years from now, based on all the data that the doctors glean from my blood tests and my scans and things like that.

And that just goes back to being part of a team.

That to me is being part of something that's bigger than yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

So true.

There's astronauts that have gone into space and when they look down at the earth, they feel this insignificance of how small we are in relation to everything else around us.

A physical standpoint, yes we're pretty small, but there's something bigger than us.

And if we can contribute a little bit or a lot towards that, greater good.

Amazing.

I think so.

People seem to think it's all about me.

It's what can I get out of this?

What and the way I try to try to think about this or talk about it is this, when we're born, we seem to think that we're born empty and that our job whether when we graduate from high school or college or get outta the army or whatever, you, when you get into.

That your job is now to fill yourself up.

I gotta get, I gotta get a good job.

I've gotta make a lot of money.

I've gotta drive an ice car.

I've gotta, and you consume to fill yourself up.

And the way I've come to understand it is just the opposite.

We're not born empty, we're born full.

And our jobs should be to empty ourselves out for the betterment of ourselves, our family, our friends, our community, our.

And if we looked at life that way, that it wasn't about what I can get and what I need to do to make me important, but to say, okay, I'm full.

I've got all kinds of stuff in me.

And I've always believed this, anything, everything you need to be successful in life is already inside you.

You just need to find it and pull it out and use it for your benefit and having always believed, That makes even more sense to what the way I feel about, okay, take your gifts, your unique gifts and talents, and empty yourself out, help some other people along the way.

And if you do that, I think that's a significant life.

We always want to talk about success, and I think success and significance can be, you can do both.

They're, I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but we spend so much time trying to be successful and so little time trying to be significant in life.

And I, at least from my perspective, and again I can only talk for myself if you are a significant individual.

The relationships you have.

I've been a guest on probably now over 600 podcasts all over the world.

I have yet to have a bad experience.

I've met some amazing people that are trying to put all that goodness back into the world themselves through their podcasts and stuff like that, and it's just been such an amazing experience for me to just be a small part of that in their.

That's amazing.

600 podcasts.

That's pretty good.

What there's obviously a lot of things that, that you're excited and grateful for, but is there something very particular right now that you're just extremely

grateful for?

I would have to say my family I talk a lot about what I call my three Fs that have gotten me through cancer, which are my faith, my family, and my friends.

I'll tell you this story kind of real quick.

It's, I think it's actually hilarious When I had my leg amputated and I had these tumors in my lungs, my doctor was, I wanna put you on chemotherapy.

And I was eight years into this cancer fight, and I looked at him and I said is it gonna save my.

He said, no, probably not, but it might buy you some more time.

And I said, well, if the outcome is gonna be the same whether I have chemo or I don't have chemo I don't know if I want to do that.

I don't know if I want to go through that.

I said, but I'll go home and talk to my family and it's just my wife and daughter and I, so I go home and I start telling 'em about what's going on and my daughter's like, all right, we need a family meeting.

I'm like, family meeting, there's three of us.

It's not like we got a board here or something like that so we end up sitting around the kitchen table individually talking about how we feel about me having chemotherapy.

And when we're done talking, my daughter's like, all right, let's take a, let's take a vote.

How many people want dad to have chemotherapy?

And my wife and daughter raised their hand.

I'm like, wait a minute.

Am I getting outvoted for something that I don't want to do?

Yeah.

But I remembered when I was back in the police academy, our defensive tactics, us, uh, instructor has to used to have us bring a photograph of the people we love the most, the class.

And as we were learning different techniques to defend ourselves, we were to look at that photograph.

because he reasoned you will fight harder for the people you love than you will fight for yourself.

So I took chemotherapy, not because I wanted to, but because I love my family more than I love myself.

And in hindsight, it was a bridge that got me to the clinical trial drug that I'm on now.

If I had not taken it, I would absolutely not be here right now.

God works in mysterious ways, but when my daughter and wife kind of ganged up on me in that way, it was.

Yeah I get it.

You don't want me to go yet.

And in all honesty, I really don't want to go, but I didn't want to go through all that ugliness if the outcome was gonna be exactly the

same.

Right.

I'm glad you didn't say your three Fs were family, faith and finances.

Cuz I think that's a big one that a lot of people will add into that is they value their money so much.

So good on you for that.

Now you said you've been on 600 interviews 600 podcast interviews so far.

People probably who've heard your interviews know a lot about you, but is there something that they would be genuinely surprised to learn that they may not already know?

I always say this when somebody asks me that I played, basketball when I was in college, when I was a senior, and this individual was a freshman in college.

I played basketball against Michael Jordan.

and kind of a funny story.

You know, I mentioned, I have two brothers, right?

My youngest brother is a basketball coach in Chicago and has been for, I don't know, 20, 30 years, and he actually coached Michael Jordan's, two sons, and he said, one day I'm at practice and I'm teaching the players a drill.

And it's toward the end of practice and he said, and I look up and nobody's paying attention to anything I'm saying.

So I look where the players are looking and they had looked over to the door to come into the gym and Jordan had come into the gym as a dad.

I'm here to pick up my kids and take 'em home after practice.

And so my brother said to him, it's like, Hey Michael, you're a little bit of a distraction.

Would you mind stepping out in the hall until practice is over so that I can finish up teaching the, and Jordan and his wife were incredibly gracious people and he is like, sure, coach, no problem.

I'll wait outside till practice is over.

And my brother thought later.

Gee, I'm probably the only coach in the history of basketball that ever kicked Michael Jordan out of practice.

I love that.

Oh, that's wonderful.

That's a great way to end the episode here.

And if anybody wanted to connect with you, learn more about you, where can

they do that?

I have a blog called Motivational Check.

And every day I put up a thought for the day.

And with that comes a question about how maybe you can apply that in your life.

You can certainly leave me a message there.

It's motivational check dot.

All right.

That's wonderful.

Thank you so much, Terry.

I really appreciate your insight, your information, and also just your presence and you being here on the show.

Thank

you so much.

Well, thanks for having me on.

I really enjoyed talking with you.

Absolutely.

Take care.

You too.