Gary Ireland helps executives in transition to maximize income and benefits when joining a company and enhance severance and asserting rights when they’re leaving. Gary has helped many clients in financial services, banking, law, media, technology and higher education, among other fields. He also works with start-ups.

We discuss:

• The best thing about employment law [01:26]
• A relationship is a two-way street [04:56]
• An [im]proper way to terminate a relationship [06:36]
• Becoming a consultant to your former employer [10:20]
• Creative solutions for maximizing profit and employee engagement [13:58]
• Everybody that’s around an employee [15:35]
• Best in something but still out of work [17:06]
• Who are the most successful individuals [19:25]
• The skills that help you prevail [21:24]

Learn more about Gary at http://irelandlaw.net.

Welcome to smashing the plateau.

We help you get on stock so you can do what you love and get paid.

What you're worth consistent.

I'm your host David Schreiner Kahn.

I would say that passion and perseverance will help you prevail.

You need to be relentlessly enjoying what you do

today.

On episode 593 of smashing the plateau.

I'm speaking with employment attorney, Gary.

I'm going to ask Gary how you can maximize your relationships to boost your income

Stay with us to hear all the details you can find out more about Gary

Now let's welcome, Gary.

Gary helps executives and transition to maximize income and benefits

When leaving Gary has helped many clients in financial services,

He also works with startups, Gary, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, David.

I'm really grateful

that.

Yeah, it's great to have you on again.

Oh, Gary, you've been practicing law for a long time.

Have you always specialized in employment law?

I've

always worked with employees moving in and out of

I started in litigation and I continue with litigation if, if needed in

But more now I worked in the area.

Negotiating, uh, clients, when they're w you know, it'd be some, for example,

I do that with mostly in the financial services area, media technology.

And then I work with startups now.

So it's especially in technology where they're taking off and, and they,

What is it about employment law that you

love?

I like getting the most out of both employees and employers.

And I think with statistics showing that the disengagement

And there's no way to get much out of an employee if they're not interested

So if I'm working with employers, I want to make sure that

And as for, from an employee standpoint, I want to make sure that they're

And a lot of it is working with coaches like yourself, getting, getting my

So

you, you work with both management and employees.

I worked

predominantly with employees, but I also work with management

Is to get people in general to do their best.

And what I mean by that is I worked with my daughter and my son in the

It's supposed to be the best leadership training for our

And so many other girls wanted in and we spent nearly 10 years.

Uh, breaking down the gender barriers.

And we worked with the LGBT community.

We worked with various organizations for an order for a, you know,

And, uh, now there are some 200,000 young women that are able to join

And my, my daughter is an Eagle scout.

Now just like my son and the training to get there is so important.

And I want opportunities the same way for employees and employers.

To understand you, you look at a company like Patagonia that has a

Well, most of the employees that I've spoken to that work there are,

And they, uh, do the best they can for that company.

And other companies can reach the same excellence and employees can as well.

And I want to help them.

That's a long winded answer to your question.

Well, no, but it's an important question because, um, I think

It only works well.

If both sides are, are motivated to drive success for everyone

And what I'm hearing from you is that right.

That's exactly where you're coming from.

Right.

So many employees want to get a job, but they haven't thought

And sometimes when going for the job, they can actually speak to the

To reach even higher excellence, even on the way.

And our soon after they join.

And sometimes I've had clients that weren't, weren't in a situation where

I had a situation where we had a real serious illness with, with my wife and

And other people are in similar situations and the pandemic has

So if you need to work with.

I've had clients where there they go in for one thing and they end up coming out

So I try to.

Navigate situations when working with employers and employees to

Right.

So what are some examples of some of the cases you've worked on that have

Boosts success on both sides.

Clearly you represent only one side when there's a negotiation, but what are

I've gone into a situation where a client joins a

There's so much more potential in that employee that I generally

And one day too, you know, I think this particular person wanted to get at.

And the company wanted to a commitment from that, that employee and it worked

I've also heard real tragic stories.

I'm working with someone right now who is a very high and executive.

She came into a company, she had a serious illness going in.

It was obvious to everyone involved.

And almost immediately, they tried to, they undercut her, uh, authority,

And even on the way out, whether it was purposeful or not, she was denied, um,

You know, she needed that to save her life.

Um, it was one of the most egregious examples of discrimination,

Management in that.

If you're going to terminate someone with an illness at the very least, you better

She never even gotten notice of an opportunity to get a Cobra.

Employers must be cognizant of if you're going to terminate a

Who's got a life-threatening illness.

But at the very least when it's time for someone to leave a company,

This, this woman was stripped of her dignity.

She was humiliated, and then they, they exacerbated a life threatening illness.

So you can imagine her anxiety levels.

And is that case still going on or is it done?

It is

still going on.

Unfortunately, I was, I was able, when I got the case, I was able to,

And, and that night, um, her benefits were reinstated.

That should never happen.

And that's where HR has to be more responsible and everyone, I

She should've said, listen, we're going to make sure that we take care of you.

You know, we, we believe it was her reasons other than her performance,

You know?

And, and, and employers, I think our understanding is that as the

Uh, market, uh, we're we're employees can go in and dictate some terms.

It's a good time to be saying, Hey, listen, I want to work

They've gotta be committed to their own, you know, those employees.

And even if they, if it's time for someone to leave, they have to let

It's got, it's got to work that way, where you just having, um,

That's that goes back to what I said before.

If you want committed employees that are going to be dedicated to your

Let's talk a little bit more about the, the

You mentioned that it is common in those situations for that individual.

To also become a consultant for the employer that he, that he

I've

seen that happen where, where there's a transition in the company.

There may not be enough money in one area of the company to afford a full-time

So if there's a big enough company and they're looking to, if they value

And I've seen that happen many times and I think it's, it's important

I do my best to try to be creative and offer other solutions.

And really when, when I'm trying to negotiate a severance or even if I'm

Uh, discrimination and then it gets both sides can get entrenched.

So you need to be creative and open open-minded, um, and, and

to the table.

Right.

So one of the things that you're saying is when there's a, essentially

So for example, one of the things we talk about a lot on this show is for

And I'm.

And I like to describe it as happening either by design or by circumstance.

So sometimes the employee is proactive and may see a situation that's not working out

They've hit a plateau in terms of responsibility in terms of compensation.

And, um, and they may be working more and more on things that aren't the best.

And they think that they'll have more control over their destiny

So they leave proactively and then start a consulting business.

The circumstance situation is when an employee gets pushed.

Sometimes it's a situation where all of a sudden there's a new direct supervisor

So they may look to.

Terminate more highly compensated people who are direct reports, that

Sometimes there's a change in the marketplace and that like you alluded

And, um, they may again look to, to.

The more highly compensated people would tend to be the older people.

So even if you, if you take out the formal age discrimination from, from

Do I want to look for another job or would I rather be self-employed so

Leave the company and, and file something because, uh, you know,

That's a huge number.

And how are you going to get those employees to be a fit?

When they're concerned about that.

But then moving on to, I had an employee recently who was a top producer at a

Now you've got a highly valued employee who I saw as

Um, he was, he was really highly respected.

Rather than moving that employee out.

Why not look towards finding another position within the company, not

So how do you, how do you work around that?

And I think companies have to be more engaging in the needs of their employees

What was going on within the company towards this, this valued

feel right?

It impacts the behavior and the productivity of everybody

And I see so many companies looking towards, well, we

It's just this one employee.

Now it's everyone around that employee that sees what's the way

Particularly if it's a valued long-term.

They need to have full engagement.

And that's why I recommend bringing in coaches like yourself, David,

And committed to bringing out the excellence in, in both management and

And it takes a real professional, I've studied leadership for a long time,

And it really is the same thing.

It's, it's like coaching and, you know, we see the Olympics coming up

And how do you bring the best out of them?

It's really the same.

Methodology that you want to find out what, and what drives one employee.

Isn't going to be the same as what drives another employee.

Their values may be different.

Their needs may be different.

Someone may be having difficulty with childcare.

And that's why we see that at the forefront of legislation right now,

And the employers aren't are blind to that.

Oftentimes they just don't want to read it.

Right.

That's, that's an issue.

So I'm trying to find out whatever motivates people.

Let's figure that out and, and try to, if we can get them, get it for

them right now, in the case where the employee does decide

Well, I just finished a program called the Goldman Sachs

And, uh, I just spoke at their graduation last week and it was, they, they teach

And so it's a 13 module that, and you figure out what, where are the needs,

And if nobody wants.

You're still going to be out of work.

So you've got to figure out what and where your interests lie

Uh, I'll take you as an example.

I've known you for a long time now, David, and I've seen you, you, you bring

I see, you know, your, your smile broadens.

So if you can find that.

Excellence and that passion and align those.

Then you've got a consultancy that's going to work great.

And you need to then market.

And that's where I think we all need to figure out how to be better.

Marketers.

Yeah.

W where do you see accelerating the success of this transition?

Cause w one of the things that happens when you go from employment

How your trajectory of your compensation.

If you lose a job and your income was coming primarily from the job, then

And if you get another job, your income goes from zero back to a hundred percent.

Also overnight, when you start a consulting business, it doesn't work.

That way could actually take a lot longer than many people realize to replicate.

Your previous income as an employee and the ones, uh, people that,

Now, since you worked so closely with people on an individual basis, and

For people going from employment to connect.

That's a great

question.

I find that the most successful, um, individuals are the ones that have

And oftentimes it's, it's by choice sometimes it's not.

Uh, but they also have a support system, whether it be through

Through a spouse or partner that has insurance because insurance is

How are you going to do that while you move on to your next opportunity?

And that's important to have thought through clearly while you're doing that.

And, and so many people that I see have principals that are aligned with

Who's.

I may have a job that provides benefits.

I know that when I went out on my own, I had a partner who was a hundred percent

And, uh, and we had real alignment of values.

You know, and, and, um, she saw what I did and I took on some cases

There was one in south hall that, that we ended up winning a jury trial.

And this is before videos and, and it was a repeated.

Assault on a, uh, an, uh, an African-American member of

And we brought a civil rights case, which was not populated.

This was the early two thousands.

And, um, and we prevailed, but it took years.

And, um, fortunately I had a very supportive and patient partner that was

Right.

So one of the things I'm hearing from you is patience and perseverance

So you can keep paying your personal expenses as you build up your business.

There's also really important,

right?

I would say that that passion and perseverance will help you prevail

Right.

So you've got to have this passion that fires you up to get up every morning

And what's going to do that.

You know, obviously some of it's monetary, but a lot of it is, uh, you know, I, I

Yeah,

for sure.

Gary, is there anything else that, that I haven't asked you that you, that you

You know, as, as a manager, I would say,

We have, we have people that, that look to us for, for ideas, for support.

And one of the things that there's many, many quotes, but I love the quote by my

And so let's think about that.

It's how you made them feel.

So let's, let's think about how many, at least in my business, how many managers

So I'm saying to all the managers out there and everyone that works with a

So well said, Gary, if somebody wants to go deeper with anything

Sure.

Anybody can email me.

I'm at jerry@irelandlaw.net, gary@irelandlaw.net.

I welcome the opportunity to speak with anyone and David I'm

And thanks for having me on.

Yeah, it's it's an honor to have you as well.

Gary, thank you so much.

Have a great day.

My guest today has been employment attorney Gary Ireland.

Thank you Gary, for joining us.

Thank you.

David principle centered leadership is so important and, and you're,

Thank you.

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