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Are Video Ads The Future of Digital Advertising With Chris Knudson and Dan Bischoff
Episode 11530th September 2022 • Make Each Click Count Hosted By Andy Splichal • Andy Splichal
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This episode features Chris Knudsen and Dan Bishoff, two of the members of the founding team at Purple Mattress where they took the company from a Kickstarter campaign to a public company with $700 million/year in revenue in just four years. These days, they run Stoic Yeti, which is considered the leading direct-to-consumer agency, with a focus on paid ads. They have generated over $2B+ in DTC revenue, for brands like Casper and Harley-Davidson.

Chris and Dan share why they believe video ads are the future of digital advertising. They discuss video production, what kind of video ads should people be considering creating, and doing video testing.

Both of them give a piece of actionable advice to a business owner on how to immediately create and test some video ads. Listen as they share their story of transitioning from Purple Mattress to Stoic Yeti.

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To find more information about Stoic Yeti, go to


Andy Splichal is the World's Foremost Expert on Ecommerce Growth Strategies. He is the acclaimed author of the Make Each Click Count Book Series, the Founder & Managing Partner of True Online Presence, and the Founder of Make Each Click Count University. Andy was named to The Best of Los Angeles Award's Most Fascinating 100 List in both 2020 and 2021.

New episodes of the Make Each Click Count Podcast, are released each Friday and can be found on Apple Podcast, iHeart Radio, iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts and


Andy Splichal 0:00

Welcome to the Make Each Click Count podcast. This is your host, Andy Splichal. We are happy to welcome this week's guests to discuss today's topic, which is are video ads the future of digital advertising. Today we have two of the members of the founding team at Purple Mattress where they took the company from a Kickstarter campaign to a public company with $700 million a year in revenue in just four years. These days they run StoickYeti, which is considered to be the leading direct to consumer agency with a focus on paid ads. They have generated over $2 billion dollars in direct customer revenue for brands like Casper and Harley Davidson. A big welcome to Chris Knudsen, and Dan Bishoff. Hi, guys.

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 0:45

Hey, Andy, how you doing?

Andy Splichal 0:48

So let's dive right in. Why do you believe that video ads are the future of digital advertising?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 0:56

Well, let's see. Do you want to take that you want me to take that?

I'd say it's the future past and present.

Andy Splichal 1:03

How so? I mean, you know, always you've had digital advertising really people been you know, you had your Google ads you had Facebook ads, but really more text. Why do you see him leading toward video now.

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 1:16

So video is an probably has been, you know, for a long time and you look at advertising across the board, you know, search ads or text, right but that's people that are that are already looking for something easy to break through the noise, educate people on your there's more and more products out there as more and more competition to capture attention to educate people on your products, like video is way to get it done. And all the platforms are going that way to like even with really good Facebook and how they're limited on our data. It's becoming more of a content the platform. Right short video now you know, TikTok and everything. It's all it's all video, it's catch potential people true video.

Andy Splichal 2:06

And what are these essential types of video ads? I mean, are you running like top of funnel bottom of funnel? I mean, what what kind of video ads should people be considering creating?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 2:17

y back to infomercials in the:

Andy Splichal 3:53

So just to be clear that the formula is you define the problem, you agitate the problem, and then you solve the problem. So you're doing all that in the video.

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 4:02

That's right. That's right. And again, you can have some variations on that we'd like to test a lot of different things. Testing is a big piece of what we do and stuck yet easy to understand. different demographics may react differently, depending on products or services that you're promoting, to video. So you have to be flexible, right? Like you got to be flexible in how you think about building that advertising. But it's critical that that you follow at least some methodology there that you have a testing it testing in place to make sure that it's like a methodical process, right. You're not just again, not just throwing spaghetti against the wall, you're you're actually testing and you're building toward logical conclusions driven by data about what's really working with your ads.

Andy Splichal 4:47

And what do you need for production? I mean, is it is it going to be just a business owner with their phone or do you need you need to get a production team does it? I mean, what do you need?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 4:56

s of:

Andy Splichal 7:57

So it's StoicYeti, are you you're getting the people to be in there on those videos for your customers, or you tell them the customers to do it and give them a script? How does that work?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 8:13

We do all the above. So someone comes to us. And they're like, Oh, that's a really nice idea to get people to talk about our product. But we don't know who people are. And we don't know, we have a whole network of people that we use that build content, right? So we take all the anxiety of having to worry about finding people and all that out of our clients hands and we go take care of all that ourselves. Right? Our process is really interesting. And this is something that Dan uncovered is, is we don't really give our content creators a script, because then it comes off like people are not good actors generally, right? So if you give them a script that looks like they're reading off a script, it comes off extremely disingenuous. And it's it doesn't look like an actual user of the product or the service. And people are going to walk away from that, right? So we generally give them questions that we want them to answer, like, hey, what was the problem that you had this product fixed, right? Or what was what's the main benefit that you got out of using this product? Right? And people are much more natural when you position it to them in a question, and they can just answer it in question form and like question answer format, then if you give them a script, a script, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't will give them value propositions and you know, those types of things that they can refer to, but we just we generally avoid giving them a script.

Andy Splichal 9:17

So you're giving them the questions to kind of lead them through that problem. Okay. And are you testing more than one? Like, if you go out, you know, of course, if it's the company owner, and they're doing it, you're probably just wondering, are you running, you know, test on different people, or different videos created? Or is it going to be? Is it almost gonna be like a spokesman you're creating for a different company that's using this?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff 9:41

Yeah, we're testing. I mean, you have to have the mindset of testing everything, then there's a process to do it right when you're buying that media. But yeah, we're testing different individuals. We give them different questions to answer For an E bike, there was a video. And it's a couple riding the bike. And the winner was just like, this is super fast, you know. And there was other other things they said, but they that was like a simple thing that actually turned out to win. But you just give them different sound bites, but we also take, we like to take brand footage, or B roll of products and mix it with several user generated content people. And, and the beauty of having UGC in is a couple of ways. One, I'm sorry, what is UGC? I, sorry, user generated content

User generated content, Got it. The beauty of it is

one way to sell something is you have to have a proven sort of message, you have to prove the claims you're making. So you say this product is amazing, or fixes this issue, or it solves this problem, you have to have some reason to prove it and a user generator generated content is someone it's like a testimonial, you know, proving that message. And it's also it is the user telling the brand's story, instead of the brand telling a brand story, which is which is we found is a really big deal. People today, they see a brand telling a brand story looks all pretty like a brand does. If you're on Tik Tok, that is not going to work. People look at that, and they ignore and then it looks like it's coming from a company. But if it's someone lower quality, even we've seen a lot of ads that are lower quality production out. I'll perform from a direct response angle from a return of ad spent, you know, interesting, significantly over like a really beautiful branded piece.

Andy Splichal:

Now, you had mentioned TikTok, where are you using these videos?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Yeah, go ahead. Go for it. Yeah, reason them across the board. Mostly in the social platforms and Facebook, and Instagram and TikTok, I mean, TikTok, you have to have them and you have to have a lot of it. Because there's a lot of ad fatigue and tick tock that people will see this ad over. So in like a week, you got to replace that with some new content often. And we've we've done it with CTV, like, CTV is like Hulu, streaming television, those kinds of things do of mixing that with some higher quality getting that higher quality video for TV, but yeah, mostly on the social, any social platform, that that you need to have at least a mixture of that some user generated content to make that work.

Andy Splichal:

So I mean, you're given a ton of information. But if there was just a single piece of actionable advice that you would give to a business owner on how to create, immediately create and test some video ads, what would it be?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Yeah, Chris. Yeah, I'd say look, set up a camera set up your iPhone, talking to your iPhone, get used to talking to your iPhone, right? Go look at like, there's a lot of these ads online, right? So if you go look at just, if you're in Instagram, if you're in those platforms, you're gonna see these ads, right? But emulate that model, which is really simple, like just talking about the problem, why you're the solution, the benefits, some type of call to action, and get used to showing the product to the camera, right? And how it works and utilize as much ability to its maximum effect on camera, and just make up the videos yourself, right? Hey, I just want to tell you about this thing, right? And when you sit there and you're just like talking about it, why it's cool. And then take that video and go test it and platform. media buying is hard, right? Like there's a lot of intricacies to it. And sometimes you need to work with someone who understands media buying capabilities and platforms like Facebook or or tick tock and then there's other people who just kind of like net, they naturally just go and just kind of figure it out and they're like, I'm gonna put this video up, put a little bit of budget behind it, go test it and just see what happens right so like, the simplest thing you could do is just start using your iPhone to make video you know, and then put it up to the platforms and start testing it right so then what else review companies make a mistake with this sometimes of being too worried about getting the perfect customer to represent their brand? Yeah, they might be worried about we've seen we had an ad and and we thought it was going to be the worst performer. It was kind of a greasy looking skater dude. And we put it out there anyway, he's just talking he talked pretty clearly about the product and why he liked it. And it was the top performer you know the to credit this company, the brand people didn't, didn't push back. A lot of brand people would have pushed back on that individual person. But it but it worked. For whatever reason. Sometimes you don't know why. But it also identify like, go through your personas of who buys your your company. What is the problem? It solves all that kind of stuff. And makes me question around it.

Andy Splichal:

Do you ever think having somebody else give a review give their problem and stuff is more effective than somebody in the company talking about it?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

1,000% Absolutely. Especially if it's brand new people doing it in what looks like a brand new production, that it just doesn't work as well anymore, right? I mean, it's

Andy Splichal:

What if you're one of your smaller company, I'm Joe's T shirts, and I created this, is it better for the owner or for somebody, I ordered those T shirts?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Well, ideally you would like to get a customer, somebody that's done it, right. But ideally, but if you like, Hey, I'm just starting out, I don't have a customer than Joe, just Joe make a video, right? Um, I see a lot of videos all the time that are kind of UGC. And I'm like, I can tell that's the founder talking about their product, right? And I'm okay with it. I'm like, That's cool. That's exactly what's bootstrapping that's like, that's what you have to do out of the gate is Go tell your own story, but make it look like user generated content. And, and go tell your story to your audience. And like people are pretty forgiving and pretty cool about that, right. And as you grow your business, you got added the people in who can talk about your products and services. And it's great.

All companies that when we found out two founders do this kind of content. People like hearing from the founders, and they like to hear why you made the product. Like what was the problem that you saw on the market? You know, what's the reason why you made you started your business? You know, and why you put it together? And why it's why it's, you know, why should I care about what you made for me, you know, that that actually works really well, especially when combined with the founder story. Plus, you have real customers talking about the product to have yet both of those together in different ad sets for and there's gonna be 100 touch points in E commerce before someone. So you're gonna need different points of view, and perspectives on these ads. But actually love the founder story there, too.

Andy Splichal:

Now, you guys have had quite a run from Purple Mattress to now Stoic Yeti, telling it like during your journey, have there been any business books out there that you can attribute to some of your success?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

I mean, yeah, for me. I love there's there's certain books that I love, I love art of the star. And I love rework. And you know, some of those books that are they're older now, but like they're still very applicable. To our time, right. And like, the thing that I've noticed in the market is there haven't been a lot of books lately, at least that I've seen. I'm a pretty big reader. And I'm like, There's there hasn't been like that book that's come out recently that I can think of, I can think back and last five or six years, that I'm like, Oh, wow, that's a great book on entrepreneurship. Right? Like, it's those older books that I think were very foundational, especially like if you came up in like the 2000s. And you own a business or you're in a start up, then that were really influential to me. So yeah, know, one book that I remember a lot is aid to stick. Why some ideas survive, others die. Yeah, there's a acronym called success in that book, where it really goes through how to make an add to its how to really, really position your product or your business. You know, it's being simple. And being very simple of Grassman Corbett, it's having unexpected, for instance, the Purple Mattress story. The, we'd like to focus on that intro of the video quite a bit like that. That's the big key is that first three seconds of a video, and the Purple Mattress with a gold Lux video that had over a billion video views it starts off with, with an actress who's also comedian, she says, What's a super easy way to know if your mattress is awful? And that's a question right? That qualifies that helps people be aware of, of their problem they might have. Right, then you might think, Oh, I woke up with a sore shoulder or a sore back my mattress, whatever. And then it goes into immediately into a demonstration, which is one good thing about video can really demonstrate the product, and it has a legs breaking on the mattress, right? That's kind of a surprise, an unexpected surprise, demonstration. Success with concrete so that one is being able to understand and remember, you know, that's the helmet ability.

Andy Splichal:

How many shares did you say that you had with that Purple Mattress video?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

I don't remember the show number.

But there's hundreds of:

Andy Splichal:

That's very, it seems very similar to the theory of being doing a pattern interrupt. Yeah, which is the same kind of thing. Hey, so I'm curious though you had all these views? Was that your first match? Was that your first commercial on the mattress out of the gate, your first video? Or did you test a bunch of stuff until you hit something or?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Yeah, that was the Purple the Goldilocks campaign was the first mattress. The first do out of the gate, right? It was the first visit, there was a five minute video for four to five minute video, depending on the Chi, that was really the foundational marketing of the launch of that business. But purple over the years made a lot of videos they've gotten progressively I'm gonna say this, like they've gotten progressively worse that making video honestly, like, like, it's just they're kind of stuck to something like they're hiring, like bigger agencies that I don't think really understand a lot of things that we're talking about now, in terms of how to make video effective. And the performance of videos. Yeah, they're big branded videos, and they just have kind of like, like, basically failed, right? I would say there was a pretty big turning point in that business in terms of its creativity, and, and it really had to do with the people that were there, you know, post, you know, or before, like three years ago, right. And it's, it's so it's kind of sad to see that, right, that it's, it's kind of devolved that way over there. But the video work that was done there between like, specifically 2015. And it started with the Kickstarter video all the way probably up into 2019. And it was, there's lots of good like, kind of case study video there. I mean, we were building video there that was very cheap. Like $2,500 type of a video that drove drove 10s of millions of dollars in revenue, just those one video, right? Like, you can build effective video for very inexpensive, very inexpensively, that can drive 10s of millions of dollars in revenue, that's a really big message that I want to like, get your audience to take away as a lot of people think, okay, if I'm going to make 10s of millions of dollars, I got to spend a lot of money on this video. And like, literally, we can point to a lot of successful videos that were very inexpensive to make, that really were like the game changer for the business that drove again, literally, especially in Purple's case that 10s of millions of dollars in revenue.

Andy Splichal:

So how did you guys go from Purple Mattress into starting your your agency now Stoic Yeti?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Well we got a lot of people were showing up in our world asking us how we did it, right. And I think Dan, I just didn't want to have real jobs anymore. And so we're like, Hey, let's go start an agency and, and grab clients. And let's let's teach them how this works and do it for them. Right. And, like, our probably main motivator here is that we don't want real jobs, to be totally honest with you. And then the next piece of that would be we just like really love working in the industry. We live, we build a lot of video, we got a great team in house, like we work with a lot of awesome people, our clients are awesome love working with our clients, like they have great products. And we were really quickly able to gain like really interesting clients we work with, like, really big clients. But we also work with really little clients, right? Like, we actually like working with startup type businesses, you know, if they can afford the services, and they're ready to, like, get serious and jump in and start selling, we'd love to work with those companies, like we'd love to go help them figure out their their place in the market and drive significant amount of revenue for them. And for larger organizations, we fit in really well with their their marketing teams and their other agencies that they're working with, and have had a ton of success there too. So we've probably seen, like maybe an abnormal amount of success just in the short time that we've been around. But it's it's the philosophies and the theories that we brought with us at purple, that again, we didn't invent, we're just really good at executing on it, that that has played really well into services that have gone into a lot of other companies that's really benefited them.

Andy Splichal:

So how does your fee structure work? Is it a do it for you service? Are you showing people how to do it? Do it with you? I mean, what, what's that look like?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

We started out as consultants, actually like cmo consultants, and we found that everybody like they didn't want to be told it was wanting people to do a forum. So we quickly like we quickly evolved into more of an agency, right? So we do, like all the video work, we have full ad buying capability. We are probably very differentiated on those fronts, but also like we're very big on data. So we've integrated a lot of business intelligence, like customized business intelligence reporting into into our processes so that we can understand what works really well in video and what's going on in the app buying world. And we're really different that way. Like we're not like a typical agency where you showed me like hey, I need somebody that like Drive you know Facebook ads for me okay, cool. Can you give me like your you have any content I can use you have any ads or anything and they don't. And they don't and the agency doesn't make it. We make all of that because

Andy Splichal:

you're you're making the content and running the ads for him.

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Yeah, your success really begins and ends with your content, right. And so most of our clients come to us because they're like, Hey, we just don't know how to build effective ads. And that's totally fine. Like, that's, that's not typically a core competency of a marketing department, right. And so we're just really good at executing on that, that component. And then if they need ad, buying services, if they need data, and everybody needs the data, and they need the feedback, we do all of that. So we have like a flat rate that we charge covers a lot of the video piece, that's very reasonable, but it's customized depending on what the needs of the client. And then we charge like a flat back end fee on the media buys. So which is a low percentage, frankly, it's but that those number, I wouldn't give you numbers, because they're kind of customized to the client, right? It depends on the client, what the client's needs are. So every every contract that we bid, every deal that we bid is all custom bid, we don't have packages, we don't do any, like cheesy thing like that we're very, like built in on the contract on exactly what the needs of the client is.

There there are and you asked that question in the media buying doing both. There are a lot of clients, we only do creative. But we are very in the weeds and the data around it because we're performance and direct response driven. So it's not it's not we don't want it we don't care about a branding ad, we care about making money off your ad. And so we have to be involved in the data. So we want to make sure that makes money. It's a good branding ad. Does that make some money?

Andy Splichal:

So who's the perfect client? Who's the person out there that they're listening right now? They should, without a doubt need to check you guys out?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Yeah, perfect, perfect client would be a client that has a really demonstrable product, right? And demonstrable ality is, is really key in differentiation. So Purple Mattress is a good case study in this because it gel layer was a big differentiator in the market. And it was super demonstrable, like video lends itself really well to the Purple Mattress, right? Because we can show people why it was such an effective product, right? And we love to work with companies that have those competitive advantages that they can I call them unfair competitive advantages, right? Where they're like, Hey, we don't understand video, we don't get media buying. Or maybe we're doing some media buying. But we don't know how to supercharge it, we have no idea how to implement data here and really understand the effectiveness of this. But typically, the biggest question mark for them is how to actually create what I call inexpensive, highly effective user generated content to go and, and supercharge what they're doing on the marketing side. And that's where we can really come in and work with them. So that could be anybody. I mean, that could be, we find, like the companies that show up in our world that like really, really need our services are companies that are bumping up against $50 million, and they can literally can't figure out how to break that $50 million dollar mark. It's like some kind of like sound barrier that exists there that they have a really hard time breaking 50 million, like, we're very good at stepping in and working with those organizations to help them break through to a nine figure revenue, right. At the same time, you might have like, we have a client right now, that's a great client that is, I won't say their name, because I'm gonna talk about the revenue, but they're like five $6 million in revenue. And we actually have a couple clients like this, they're gonna have five $6 million in revenue. So somewhere between three and $500,000 a month in revenue, right? And they're like, how do we break into 10 20 million $30 million in revenue, and they have the money to kind of come in and afford it, they can do it at that point. And they're really, like, they're in how they don't have an in house team typically, or the the founder is maybe the marketing person, right? Like we slip in really well those organizations and help those guys. So we're pretty agile in terms of our ability to work with those startup groups. But also work with like really built out. You know, marketing organizations have like called like fortune 500 companies, we do that right.

So and those those fortune 500, we work with them. If you have a big ad spend budget, you're spending 50 million a year 100 million a year, that those are big ads and budgets, you need a lot of creative. They just need volume sometimes. And the internal teams, you know, it's hard for them to create as much volume as they need. So, so yeah, it's kind of across the board. It's a little different need for the difference as a company.

Andy Splichal:

And how can an interested listener find out more about you guys and working with Stoic Yeti?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff:

Yeah, just come over to our website at

And that's all one word. Just come to our website. You can see like we have a ton of video there. You can see a lot of examples of our video work. In fact, I was looking at this this morning thinking that we need to put more video up and we do but there's a lot of examples of especially like user generated content videos and things that we've done along those lines that you can take a look at at And from there, we have a contact page, you can reach out to us via the contact page, and we'll get right back to you.

Andy Splichal

And we had talked, you know, you got the larger companies, you gotta get some that are, you know, still five, 6 million a year, it's pretty, you know, for some it's really good size. What if you're just starting out, you got to demonstratable product? I mean, what kind of marketing budget? Would you need to go into something like this?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff

That's very dependent upon like a number of things industry, like, what market are you going into? There's some markets that are extremely competitive, like if somebody showed up my world right now, I was like, hey, I want to take a mattress that doesn't have like a real competitive advantage into the market. And I don't have much of a budget to do it, I would actually try to dissuade them from doing that, right. I mean, we're in a recession right now, probably, mattress sells are way off, and you're not going to make any good inroads into that market, if you don't have something that you can really toot your horn about, right? Even then you're gonna get drowned out by a lot of your competitors. So it has to be like if you're gonna go into it with a highly competitive market like mattresses, that you got to go into it with a significant investment. There's other things that come along, where it's like, Hey, can we bootstrap in and make inroads here we have a cool roller client that we work with, you know, really cool product called hella roller. And it's a very demonstrable, very, like highly competitive in the back rolling muscle rolling space and new, it's been pretty easy to kind of slip in with a fairly significant fairly small budget there in terms of ad spend, you know, like $500 a day and actually make really good inroads into that space and, and get revenue. So it's really gonna depend on how solid your your USP is. Yeah, it is in budget. Like, I always tell people like, look, you know, they're like, Oh, can I do this for last? Or this? Or I'm like, Yeah, but it's never not. It's always like, the more you have, the better, frankly, right. And that's kind of hard conversation to have sometimes, but it's actually true.

It sounds cliche coming from an agency guys, like, oh, yeah, the more money you have the better, right, it's like, no, it's like, it's kind of like ski equipment, man, you get what you pay for it. Right? So it's, it very much is true that way, there was a study that came out recently on, I can't remember that where it came from, I think it's Nielsen or one of those, where most marketers actually don't spend enough on the advertising platforms to get a good enough return of adspend. So most of like Facebook, they need, they have an algorithm, they have an AI and the more money you feed it, the more data you get from it, the better it can optimize. So there's always that like, that fine line for a company that you know, in the beginning stages of how much can you really spend the data? Enough to make it work?

Andy Splichal

Yeah. Well, this has been great. Sorry to wrap it up. But before we do, is there anything else you would like to add?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff

I'd say, don't be intimidated by it, right? Like, you know, just is, especially if you're just starting out, it is okay to like, open up your phone and just start practicing with your product and go get some ads up, right. Like, that's, it's okay to do that. And it's actually probably preferable, don't feel like you have to go hire a big production house and, and spend a bunch of money that you don't have on something that's probably not going to work for you anyway. So the best thing you can do is act, right. Like if you sit around and you're like, I don't know what to do, you'll never do it. Right. So you just have to act and, and sometimes, yeah, sometimes that's the hardest thing to do. But, you know, I just like to look at it and say, hey, just get it out there and go for I've seen guys record, like they're sitting in their car recording a commercial, like holding a product, and it's super genuine. And I'm like, I see it enough. And I'm like, it's probably working. So you just have to go for it.

Andy Splichal

Dan, any final words?

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff

Yeah, we look at data, look at the ad, and spend well against the audience and then tested it in what Chris says is you gotta go for it because you have to start testing what works and, and your first few ads out there are probably going to fail. But to fail is where you get the learnings to make it work.

Andy Splichal

Fail forward.

Chris Knudsen / Dan Bischoff


Andy Splichal

All right. Well, thank you again for joining us today guys. For listeners. Remember, if you liked this episode, please go to Apple podcasts. Leave us an honest review. And if you're looking for more information regarding connecting with Chris or Dan or Stoic Yeti, you'll find the links in the show notes below. In addition, if you're looking for more information on growing your business, check out our all new podcasts Resource Center available a podcast on We have compiled all of our different past guests by show topic and included each of their contact information. In case you would like more information on any of the services that I have discussed during previous episodes. Well that's it for today. Remember to stay safe, keep healthy and happy marketing and I will talk to you in the next episode.