Shownotes
- Why humans want to stereotype and label others.
- Ways that the media shapes unhelpful stereotypes about Christians.
- How Jesus was hard to label because he moved in a “third way”.
- 5 stereotypes that Christians need to change about us immediately.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
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Transcripts
I fear that some of our listeners may want us to come down way harder either left or right on this issue, Heath, but again, I have to say my heart breaks that culturally there exists a stereotype that says that Christians, any of us, God's kids, and by extension, maybe God himself, is anti anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:That goes so against the gospel and what John 3 17 says about Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says, For God didn't send his son into the world to condemn or judge the world, but to save the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:And notice it doesn't say, except for certain people who believe or do certain things.
Caesar Kalinowski:As a Christian, you cannot offer someone moral guidance unless you're also ready to accept and love them right where they are, just as Jesus accepts and loves us as we are.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater
Heath Hollensbe:intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, Heath, good to be with you, my friend.
Heath Hollensbe:Man, I haven't seen you since Thanksgiving.
Heath Hollensbe:And, uh, yeah, did you do the Black Friday stuff?
Heath Hollensbe:Are you a Cyber Monday
Caesar Kalinowski:sort of person?
Caesar Kalinowski:Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:None of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, we started Christmas shopping long ago and the idea of standing in line.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, when there's this thing called the interwebs is really no sense in it I'm not saying I'll never go to a store I usually it's like one time a Christmas Tina and I kind of like gird up loins and we try to go like on a Monday afternoon or something I mean like yeah, who when is the least but no this idea of going on Black Friday I know some families and if this is yours, you know, god bless you.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't understand the
Heath Hollensbe:it's getting earlier, too It's like now starting at 4 p.
Heath Hollensbe:m.
Heath Hollensbe:On I
Caesar Kalinowski:don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no way I'm like at midnight so I can get like a hundred bucks off a TV or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:I have a TV.
Caesar Kalinowski:I have an, I have a spare.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:So no, I'm not into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I am more of a cyber Monday.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's how old I am, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Years ago, I've been writing for years.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was writing for a magazine on sort of new media and, you know, upcoming digital gadgetry and stuff like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I was writing about, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, the internet back then was literally the internet.
Caesar Kalinowski:There was no wide world, worldwide web.
Caesar Kalinowski:There was no like browsers or any of this, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But it was just starting and it was like.
Caesar Kalinowski:E commerce was like this brand new thing and everybody was so afraid of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna get ripped off.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm totally gonna get ripped off.
Caesar Kalinowski:Steal my credit card information.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it still happens, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:But I remember thinking, oh, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out a way that I'm gonna get the magazine to pay for my shopping this year.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna completely shop for all my Christmas needs and I'll go like, I bought this for my mom, I got this for my dad, I got this for my kids, this for my wife.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm gonna do it all online.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's gonna only take me like, Two hours or something and I'm gonna document the whole thing and that's me my big jam cuz no one had ever done it Yeah, that's how early it was.
Caesar Kalinowski:I didn't do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I didn't have the guts to hit him up So it's gonna cost you 200 bucks and I don't think they even paid me that per article back then.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that funny, man?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, the world has come a long way.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's come a long way.
Caesar Kalinowski:So no, no Black Friday for me Maybe a little Cyber Monday.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's always fun
Heath Hollensbe:So I've been in the church for a really long time And I know that as long as I've been in the church, Christians have unfairly, or maybe even at times fairly, to be honest, been stereotypes for different beliefs or actions or assumed beliefs.
Heath Hollensbe:Why do you think that's the
Caesar Kalinowski:case?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, this has been on my heart a little bit lately.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, the fact that, you know, it comes up where people, like, how do you answer when someone says, are you are you, are you a Christian?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, how do you, do you say yes?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, you know, and it's just like, not only are basic things sort of weird now to talk about, like we don't even know, cause we don't know what people think, but then like you said, there's, there's quite a few stereotypes attached to Christians that maybe they're fair, maybe they're not, like maybe we've earned them, maybe they're not.
Caesar Kalinowski:So just, so we're all on the same page.
Caesar Kalinowski:When I say stereotype, it's defined as a widely held.
Caesar Kalinowski:Fixed and oversimplified image or an idea of a particular type of person or thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Stereotypes are an interesting concept because most people are likely to say that stereotypes are not true, but they still exist, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think why they exist is we all like to put people into a box, sort of label them in ways that we can.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, either easily dismiss or categorically aspire to without really getting into the messiness of knowing people and knowing each other and truly being known.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's kind of just easier to throw stereotypes on people.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was reading an article online today called, um, and people can Google this up when Hollywood goes to church.
Caesar Kalinowski:18 stereotypes, you know, that like you see over and over and over.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it was kind of funny, but kind of painful, but it was somewhat, it was definitely true.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like some of it says in, in, in some member, this is when Hollywood goes to church.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you walk into a church in the middle of the week, the pastor is always tending to the altar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's where he's at, you know, it doesn't matter what, if it's denominational, if you haven't, but that's how it happens.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, the most prominent feature on a pastor's desk is a large open Bible on a huge wooden book stand.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's true.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this is like how Hollywood sees us.
Caesar Kalinowski:But today we're going to look at, and I did a little kind of research, like what are the most common stereotypes applied to Christians these days?
Caesar Kalinowski:And maybe some of the hurtful ones in the sense of hurtful, not like, Oh, ouch.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't like hearing that to be about us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, but that hurtful in the sense that they're not helping and they're keeping people from God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think in many cases we can help change them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, what's crazy
Heath Hollensbe:is that, you know, Christians get stereotypes.
Heath Hollensbe:So quickly, and as followers of Jesus, we want to look and act and live like him.
Heath Hollensbe:But when you read the life of Jesus, he was actually really hard to pin down.
Heath Hollensbe:He's also, he's kind of moving in this third way of doing things.
Heath Hollensbe:And so when people tried to stereotype him and get him tripped up and what they thought he was going to act or, or decision he was going to make, he sort of skirted it and went the other way.
Heath Hollensbe:right?
Heath Hollensbe:It was, it was always hard to pin down.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:You think Jesus followers should look a little bit like this as
Caesar Kalinowski:well?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I love this idea of Jesus always took the third way.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think that we see Jesus wasn't like trying to be sneaky, you know, for sneaky sake, you know, it's just that his ways and what and who he focused on were so different than what people expected.
Caesar Kalinowski:especially the religious types, or what they expected from a religious type of person, or as a teacher, you know, as they called him, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or maybe even as Messiah, who some believed.
Caesar Kalinowski:So in other words, what he focused on was so different than what they expected from a religious type.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and it both made him hard to categorize and fit into their neat little boxes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And in some cases, It was kind of a disappointment to folks.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now in that though, I think we have some insight into how we get to live that is true to him and tears down common, unhelpful stereotypes about who his followers really are and what we're really all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think he does give us some.
Caesar Kalinowski:sort of patterns there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So what are you seeing
Heath Hollensbe:as some of the most common stereotypes, uh, that are out there about Christians?
Heath Hollensbe:And how might we have earned these for ourselves?
Heath Hollensbe:And how do we go about
Caesar Kalinowski:changing them?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I wish it's not, I wish it wasn't true, but some of it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I don't know if this is in any particular order, but here we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to give you five that I think are big ones and they're not helpful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, first stereotype they want to address is Christians think they're better than everyone else, but they're really hypocrites.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, that's, that's a pretty common stereotype out there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've heard that a lot of times Christians are viewed as being super intolerant, and we're seen as a group of people who have no room for dialogue with others that hold different values or beliefs than us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And some Christians act as if they're a always right and putting themselves in higher regard.
Caesar Kalinowski:But remember, this hour is exactly what Jesus told us not to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:We shouldn't think of ourselves as, you know, better than others like that because we're all at the same place, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So the reality is, is the gospel is easy to express, but it's hard to live out.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as much as Christians might want to deny this claim, there's sadly plenty of evidence to back this up.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, you know, like Barna, who does all the crazy research out there, they They've done, they've done some looking in, in, in, into this stuff and done some polls and while it's impossible to truly know people's hearts, one of their studies really shed some light on the average Christian's motivations here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, they did a, they looked at a group, uh, and studied to see if Christians were more like Jesus or more like the Pharisees.
Caesar Kalinowski:They asked them, They asked Christians 10 questions that showed Christ like actions and attitudes, like, I like to listen to others to learn their story before telling them about my faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or I see God given value in every person, regardless of their past or present condition.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they asked them 10 questions that showed pharisaical attitudes and actions.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't talk about my sins or struggles.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or that's between me and God.
Caesar Kalinowski:or I feel grateful to be a Christian when I see how other people live and their flaws.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So they showed him these questions, sort of 10 that were like Jesus kind of heart and attitude and 10 that were pharisaical and the results were pretty discouraging.
Caesar Kalinowski:51 percent of Christians that you got looked at these, showed pharisaical attitudes and actions.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you know, like that they agreed with the statement while just 14 percent showed that they agree with the Christlike attitudes and actions.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:And 21 percent showed Christlike attitudes, but they agreed with the pharisaical action.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really?
Caesar Kalinowski:So I, you know, it's probably time that we stopped denying it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, Oh, I'm not like those Christians.
Caesar Kalinowski:And owned up to the fact that we, like everyone else, are broken and sinful human beings desperately in need of a savior.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:We talked about that on last week's episode about letting our redemption show.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you missed that, check that out.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's super powerful.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the truth of the message shouldn't be in how perfect Christians are.
Caesar Kalinowski:It should be on how perfect our savior God is and how much we all need him.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as far as being seen as judgmental, let's remember what the apostle John said about Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:God sent his son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's be like Jesus and not act as judge and jury towards others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Instead, let's just leave that up to God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sounds like a better way of doing things.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think that would help to tear down that thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, this whole, this whole stereotype of you know, Christians think they're better than everyone else and, but they're really hypocrites.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go back and listen to last week's, you know, why we want to let our redemption show episode.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really speaks to that whole thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll help tear down.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's another one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians are all Republicans stereotype or that, or Christians are all Democrats, right now in a lot of churches, maybe especially like in the Southern states here in America, it's assumed
Caesar Kalinowski:that if you're a Christian, you also probably vote Republican.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I've lived where the opposite was true.
Caesar Kalinowski:When I grew up in Chicago.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, yeah, like people would say stuff like I don't know how you could be a Christian and be a Democrat But when I moved out here, it was the opposite It's like I don't know how you could really seriously follow Jesus and be a Republican Oh, I heard the same exact story when I moved from Nashville, and so I yeah I think I think it kind of flips both ways and depending on where you sit You know, you figure, oh, all Christians are Republicans, or whatever, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, the Pew Research Center found that 81 percent of Republicans agree with, check this out, with these three religious value statements.
Caesar Kalinowski:Prayer is an important part of my daily life.
Caesar Kalinowski:81 percent of Republicans say this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, we will all be called before God at Judgment Day.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the third one was, I never doubt the existence of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:But 62 percent of Democrats also agree with those statements.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's a little bit of a distortion there, but not that far off.
Caesar Kalinowski:So really it seems to come down to preference in which issues individual voters view as most important.
Caesar Kalinowski:All of our political parties have stances that line up with a supposed Christian worldview and they all have stances that don't.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I say supposed Christian worldview in quotations because all Christians aren't even in agreement as to what our overall worldview is.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so while maybe a somewhat larger percentage of Christians tend to be Republicans, it may not be as polarized as we think.
Caesar Kalinowski:And maybe it shouldn't be.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, people shouldn't see it that way, like we're all in alignment with one party or the other.
Caesar Kalinowski:And of course, this stereotype leaves out Christians who live outside the US.
Caesar Kalinowski:So to say all Christians Think this way or vote that way, but that's just not true, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, so how how would you say we change a stereotype that wants to put Christians in a maybe a certain political
Caesar Kalinowski:box?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I'd say let's let's work hard to be known for what you're for not what you're against That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, you know, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, what are you for versus what we're against and talk about the issues, not the latest political scandals or partisan name throwing, you know, seek to first understand why another person holds the views on an issue that they have because they might have some legitimacy there before trying to win them over, win the argurment or prove them wrong I just don't see Jesus doing a whole lot of political wrangling.
Caesar Kalinowski:around the campfire cooking fish with his disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yet, he was with Jewish people who lived under the thumb and the tyranny of Roman rule.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yet we don't see it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So focus on what we're for and not just what we're against.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like, for instance, people are like, are you for the border wall?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you against the border wall?
Caesar Kalinowski:How about this?
Caesar Kalinowski:As Christians, I'm for unity and, and all of humanity being treated with dignity.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm also for the rule of law.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's work hard to help people get, you know, out of poverty and out of jacked up situations and let's help them manage the system that's been put in place imperfectly to protect people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's not abolish it or let's just throw up huge walls.
Caesar Kalinowski:What are you for?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm for people.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what God's for.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what we get to be for.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's that third way that you're talking about, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not usually one way or the other.
Heath Hollensbe:Alright, number three of your stereotypes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh man, of the many, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, this is, this is huge and it's a hot button, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians are anti homosexual and homophobic.
Caesar Kalinowski:And maybe today the stereotype would be updated to say Christians are anti LGBTQ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, but still the same sentiment there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So again, there we find a common stereotype based on the perception of what Christians are against.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't it weird?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like so many of these stereotypes are because of what we've aligned ourselves against.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe that's the biggest stereotype of all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians are against a lot of stuff and a lot of people that aren't in our camp.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yikes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And sadly, I know that many Christians have been taught to label and rank sin or even temptation in certain categories.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, some being way worse than others and certainly ones that God's more angry at than others, etc.
Caesar Kalinowski:But that's not what the Bible teaches.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this particular topic and it's related Christian stereotype is one that's filled with a lot of emotion and it's not without its associated landmines.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now in recent years, a phrase has started to be used commonly amongst Christians in connection with their beliefs and around homosexuality or LGBTQ practices and topics and people, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Says, love the person, hate the sin, hear that all the time, all the time unfortunately since.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love the person, love their neighbor part of that equation is usually woefully absent.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I think the culture here's is Christians are anti gay people or anti LGBTQ people and what they're wondering is and so am I today is Where's the love part?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and then like if we want to camp on this love the person hate the sin kind of thing Well, where's the love part?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now we're not here today to debate the topic of homosexuality and what the Bible teaches.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And is it outdated or is it culturally missing the point or is it right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is not what this episode's about.
Caesar Kalinowski:What it's about and what bothers me is, is that there's a very real stereotype out there that believes that God's kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians are anti anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:God is for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's for people.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's for his image bearers.
Caesar Kalinowski:And God in Christ came to be with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:His love and his acceptance.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's unconditional and it's for all of mankind.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're called to, and we get to, love each other in that same way.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, our love and unconditional acceptance of gay people does not require approval of same sex sexual activity, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I have to add this, in the same way, the other side of the coin, someone not approving of activities in someone else's life or in your life does not equal that they hate that person.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:If that were true, then there'd be almost no one that could ever fall outside the hating everybody thing because we don't all agree with everybody else's choices.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if we could stop ranking and rating sin, God doesn't do that and stop being so flipped out and offended at people must hate us or that people assume we hate them because we don't agree with a choice they made.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not going to get anywhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:A few years back, I put out a video and a blog post addressing gay marriage.
Caesar Kalinowski:And in it, I pointed out that relationally.
Caesar Kalinowski:It makes no sense to start off a conversation or try to build relationship by beginning with trying to identify all the things we don't have in common or the things we don't believe the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or let me try to point out all your sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's some good news for it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:We're all image bearers in need of the same love and grace and redemption that Jesus came to offer.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's start.
Caesar Kalinowski:there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I fear that some of our listeners may want us to come down way harder left or right on this issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:But again, I have to say, my heart breaks that culturally this stereotype exists that says that Christians, God's kids, and by extension, maybe God himself is anti anybody that just goes so against the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:It just does.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, geez, you know, John says about Jesus, the beloved one says, you know, in 317, John 317.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says, for God did not send his son into the world to condemn or judge the world, but to save the world through him.
Caesar Kalinowski:And notice it doesn't say, except for certain people who believe or do certain things.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as a Christian, you cannot offer someone moral guidance unless you're also ready to accept and love them as they are just as Jesus accepted and loves us as we are.
Caesar Kalinowski:At the same time, if you're not willing to offer someone that you claim to love, If you're not willing to offer guidance on how you believe the Bible calls us to live a healthy, godly life, then you don't truly love them.
Caesar Kalinowski:You love yourself and your opinions more than you love them and God's glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:To truly love anyone, you need to spend time together and get to know each other's stories and hopes and fears and pains.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love really does come with flesh on and it takes a seat at the table, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's, let's, let's be more about that and loving people instead of worrying about who's in and who's out like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a good word, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're a bad rep.
Caesar Kalinowski:We got to change that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we
Heath Hollensbe:absolutely do.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, I'm loving this so much.
Heath Hollensbe:Let's keep going.
Heath Hollensbe:I sterotype four.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, next one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, total left turn here, but it's, it's a big one out there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I kept running into it, running into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians ignore science.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or they're anti science or something like that, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like we're dummies and we just, you know, it's like science ain't real or something, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:However you want to word it.
Caesar Kalinowski:When creation and evolution clash in courtrooms today, we see it all over the news.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a big deal.
Caesar Kalinowski:The news just fills up a story suggesting that there's some big profound conflict between science and Christianity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, inevitably someone mentions the historical incident of Galileo.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because if you remember, Galileo was charged with heresy by the church, like way back there in 1633 for teaching that the earth actually orbited the Sun.
Caesar Kalinowski:From Galileo to textbook battles, the hasty conclusion is that You know, I don't know science and Christianity are engaged in an endless debate and they're just opposed to each other Yep, and I think many people have a stereotype that there's something about Christianity and science that just don't mix Mm hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:They also believe that most Christians throw out the idea of science altogether But I think many Christians actually see science as a way to further Strengthen their faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:As new discoveries reveal, you know, all the amazing things that God's created in this world, science seeks to understand this creation that God's made.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and like we get to look at a rainbow and understand that, well scientifically it happens due to light being reflected through tiny water droplets in air and prisms and, alright.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, Christians, we also get to appreciate it further and also see that that rainbow is a subtle way that God reminds us of his relational covenant with all mankind and his love for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, we're, science can't answer the question, does God exist?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't prove it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some people argue that God's existence is actually a scientific claim that.
Caesar Kalinowski:should be able to be tested like a chemical reaction.
Caesar Kalinowski:But see, science studies the natural world, not the supernatural.
Caesar Kalinowski:And no amount of scientific testing or theories or theorizing or whatever could prove or disprove the existence of a supernatural creator.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, so the claim that God exists, that's a metaphysical or a faith related question, not a claim about nature.
Caesar Kalinowski:or physical laws.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's clear.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, we understand there's the two are different, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And while many of our questions might be clearly categorized as science questions or as Bible questions, I think there are other questions that live sort of in the boundary between the two, you know, for topics like evolution or medical ethics.
Caesar Kalinowski:and climate change.
Caesar Kalinowski:We need to consider both science and faith when seeking out God's truth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, these are complex issues and questions and we need all the knowledge and wisdom we can get rather than handicapping ourselves by looking only to science or only looking to the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I'm going to try to figure out this scientific question, but only from scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:If we look to only one or the other, we maybe get, you know, actually a distorted view of the issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, think about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:God reveals himself in the book of scripture and in the book of nature.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember Jesus said, even the rocks will cry out.
Caesar Kalinowski:So to learn more about God and his work, we get to study both books and when one book's confusing or ambiguous, maybe insights from the other book can help us understand it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And in both revelations, what we're looking for is the underlying truth of who God is and how he made the world and who he's made us to be as stewards of his glorious creation.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think we can begin to change that stereotype that Christians are anti science by embracing the both end of what the Bible teaches and what our scientific unraveling of the knowledge of the wonder of all that he has made can show us as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, I just want to thank author Sarah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Roles, uh, for her clarifying work on this issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:I did some deep dive into, yeah, some stuff she's written super helpful.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's embrace the both and, and not camp out on one side or the other, or just weird thrown out statements from something we heard on the radio or, you know, in Bible study cast 30 years ago.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to embrace, embrace both God's revealing himself, both in scripture and in through nature in the study of nature, which is what science is all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:And one of the other,
Caesar Kalinowski:uh,
Heath Hollensbe:things I'd point you to is if you haven't yet listened to episode 166 with How to Understand and Talk About Climate Change.
Heath Hollensbe:That's the first time we talked to Catherine Hayhoe, who's a Christian climate scientist.
Heath Hollensbe:She's back in the news today.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, she's met, yeah, like exploding right now with some of her recent works in the New York Times.
Caesar Kalinowski:Solid believer, solid scientist.
Heath Hollensbe:But she rocked my world from that scientific, scientific standpoint of, no, you can take both into consideration.
Heath Hollensbe:So
Caesar Kalinowski:episode 166.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think as we as Christians take both in and, you know, hold, look at that and learn from both, then that stereotype is going to fall that we're anti science or something like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's quit arguing about how old moon rocks are and stuff that's totally irrelevant, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, number five.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's the last one we're going to talk about today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Stereotype.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians are not any fun to be around.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's.
Caesar Kalinowski:cue church
Heath Hollensbe:lady from SNL.
Heath Hollensbe:Totally.
Heath Hollensbe:Isn't that
Caesar Kalinowski:special?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Crazy, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because Christians in the church, as we've seen today, are often identified by what we're against, it shouldn't come as a surprise to us that there's this stereotype that believes Christians are no fun to be around.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:If you're just a negative, if you're just a bummer all the time, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe some of this has to do with parts of our church family that strictly forbids the consumption of alcohol, and how culturally alcohol is closely linked to parties and celebration and fun in much of the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:But the stereotype that all Christians are not allowed to drink That's false.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:The Bible tells us that drinking in moderation is perfectly okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Look at Ecclesiastes 9, 7 says, Go eat your food with gladness and drink your wine with a joyful heart for God has already approved what you do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Beautiful, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Although drinking is not prohibited.
Caesar Kalinowski:It can become dangerous when it's not consumed properly, right, or, you know, appropriately.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ephesians 5, 18, Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery.
Caesar Kalinowski:Instead, be fillable to spirit.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's a caution there, but it's not a prohibition.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think that that loud prohibition by some aspects of our family, though it's not found scripturally, has given us this stereotype and this rep of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christians are just a drag, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:So let me tell you a little story that'll help illustrate this.
Caesar Kalinowski:We were throwing a party one night, and I think it was actually a Halloween party, in our old house, our last house.
Caesar Kalinowski:And pretty near the beginning of the evening of that party, seven or eight people from the neighborhood had drifted in and out, and the doorbell rang again.
Caesar Kalinowski:And at the door there was this couple that we had never met before, Ryan and Liz.
Caesar Kalinowski:They were both doctors, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:And they had bought a house around the corner from us, and it was this little cute three tone, green one, but they hadn't moved in yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, so they said, well, we got this invitation to your party, but we can't stay tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sorry, but we at least wanted to meet you and say how cool it is to see a neighborhood where people actually know each other and want to hang out.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're so excited.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're moving in like next month.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then off they went back into the dark.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that whole conversation maybe lasted five minutes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe a little longer, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:A few months later, now after a couple more times of getting to hang out together, Liz, Liz told me, she says, you know, Ryan and I don't go to church or anything, but we're, you know, we're trying to have kids and when we have kids, we're going to take them to your church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, I had never mentioned I was a pastor or worked at a church, so I asked her, I said, why is that?
Caesar Kalinowski:She said, because we want our kids to grow up serving people and loving their neighbors and having fun the way you all do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that cool?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, we had not really got around, you know, been around them all that much to be truthful.
Caesar Kalinowski:We had.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we had treated them like our family in small little ways, but the open door and the casual acceptance they felt from us and our community spoke volumes to their hearts already.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that is precisely the point of our celebrations, that people would both see the heart of our God and feel invited to his party.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wouldn't it be great to overhear someone at a cafe in your town saying like, I don't know if I believe what these Christians around here believe, but boy, they sure know how to throw a party.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Shouldn't that be happening all the time?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think so.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, the church, God's body of believers, His kids, that's us.
Caesar Kalinowski:We should be the most celebratory people on the planet.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, just think about all that we have to celebrate, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:We're forgiven from all our sins, even the ones we haven't committed yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, we've been transformed into a new creation and we have new God given identities that we get to live out of.
Caesar Kalinowski:We represent God as His family.
Caesar Kalinowski:here, everywhere we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:He now lives with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And Oh yeah, by the way, we get to live forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like eternal life.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a big thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like we should party every day about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody's freaking out about death, death, no more for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to live forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's something to celebrate.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think we should be throwing parties and celebrating and big parties and small ones, all of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we should be there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like Jesus, we can live radically inclusive.
Caesar Kalinowski:countercultural lives and be the bringers of the better wine like he was at the wedding feast in Cana.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was, that's what was going on this Halloween.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, I think we won, man, in the neighborhood, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:People, I mean, literally lots of people are like, why are you doing all this?
Caesar Kalinowski:This is so much, this is so.
Caesar Kalinowski:fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, cause there was, Tina had two types of chili and we had both red and white wine and some beers and we're just pouring little cups of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, no big deal.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I know some people are like, Oh, that's so bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm never listening again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm just like, geez, then talk to Jesus about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it was counter cultural even to the world to live this way, just like it was when the wine steward comes up to Jesus and goes, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who makes hundreds of gallons of the best wine and then brings it out at, you know, brings out the best wine at the end.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was counter cultural, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I think if we start being radically inclusive with people and throwing the best parties and showing up and being the bringer of the best, that'll start to tear down the stereotypes that are often holding.
Caesar Kalinowski:others back and adding to the growing walls of separation that we already see today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we don't need that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We don't need any more of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if the fact that we could throw a good party and everybody feels comfortable to come.
Caesar Kalinowski:tears down the walls of what people think of Christians.
Caesar Kalinowski:So therefore they're a little closer to believing the truth about what our dad's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh man, I'm all for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I agree, man.
Heath Hollensbe:We've seen a lot of people come to faith too, just through the amount of celebrating that we've thrown in our neighborhood.
Heath Hollensbe:And I would say if you need your butt kicked a little bit on this, uh, episode two 11 on why the church should be throwing better parties.
Heath Hollensbe:It's a great episode to kind of remind us that we have the reason to celebrate.
Heath Hollensbe:So that's episode two 11.
Heath Hollensbe:If you want to go
Caesar Kalinowski:back and listen there.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've been cruising.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me try to summarize this into the big three takeaways if I can.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so let's do the big
Heath Hollensbe:three.
Heath Hollensbe:That's the PDF as a free download you get, printable, by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:If we haven't given enough already, we want you to walk away with, at the very least, the next three things we're going to throw out here.
Heath Hollensbe:So Caesar.
Heath Hollensbe:Don't miss this, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, what
Caesar Kalinowski:are the big three for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so first thing, stereotypes are developed for a reason.
Caesar Kalinowski:They, you know, and we can start changing that by owning up to our part.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start there.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's always a little truth or actual experience connected to these Christian stereotypes.
Caesar Kalinowski:So how, you know, have you fallen into further propagating some of them to be honest about that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Often it's easier to hide or make knee jerk, cliched sort of statements regarding tough issues, but neither help to dispel stereotypes or build unity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's own up to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You should All right, number two.
Caesar Kalinowski:Two.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, the stereotypes that people have about Christians and the ones that Christians have about certain other people only serve to divide us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like we said earlier today, there's no like positive stereotypes generally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't settle for oversimplified images or ideas of a particular type of person or people group.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus came that we might once again be restored to a fullness in our relationships, both with him and with each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that takes time.
Caesar Kalinowski:That takes being together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let his unconditional love and patience with you motivate that same type of interaction with others.
Heath Hollensbe:That's good, man.
Heath Hollensbe:All right.
Heath Hollensbe:Last one.
Heath Hollensbe:Number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Seek to live in Jesus's third way.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love that.
Caesar Kalinowski:The way you put that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Seek to live in his third way.
Caesar Kalinowski:He was always for people, for his father's glory and for the fullness of life that he created us to live in and enjoy.
Caesar Kalinowski:And his life matched his message.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let your actions precede your words and let your words build up rather than divide.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes I think it's, it's, it's still spot on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like my mother always said, if you don't have something nice to say, it's better to say nothing at all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Heath Hollensbe:agree.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:So simple, but it's so true.
Heath Hollensbe:Follow the third way of Jesus.
Heath Hollensbe:All right.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for those Caesar.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, those big three you get for free as a printable PDF by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three, and we'll get them right away into your inbox.
Heath Hollensbe:If you haven't yet joined our Facebook group, everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash Facebook.
Heath Hollensbe:And away we go, away we go with community and conversation and kickback and I
Caesar Kalinowski:love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it when I get the little ding and there's my box and someone's on the group and they're because I always know it's like serious people and they're seriously digging into this and the gospel in all of life right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:So love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's cool seeing people
Heath Hollensbe:grow in gospel fluency there too.
Heath Hollensbe:Like from beginning to now.
Heath Hollensbe:It's amazing.
Heath Hollensbe:Love it.
Heath Hollensbe:If you haven't yet given us a review on iTunes, or Pandora, or Spotify, or Stitcher, or Podbean, or any of those, go give us a couple stars and tell us what you love about the show.
Heath Hollensbe:That puts this podcast out in front of people that may have not have heard of it before.
Heath Hollensbe:And that's always helpful for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's it for today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope that this has given you plenty to think about, and I hope you'll share this episode with others in your life and in church.
Caesar Kalinowski:And please join us again next week.
Caesar Kalinowski:We will continue to look at how the good news of the gospel speaks into and reshapes everything about everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
