Today on the podcast, I'm speaking to Hari Fell. After running her own hotel for the past 20 years, Hari decided she wanted a new challenge. Having given up alcohol in 2019, she launched Nolo Cocktails and Bars, bringing choice to people who choose not to drink through non-alcoholic cocktail subscriptions, gift boxes, and a mobile alcohol-free bar.

This was a great conversation with Hari about her subscription business for people who don't want to drink alcohol but want exciting drink choices. We spoke a lot about how she develops her drinks and sources ingredients, as well as the practicalities of running a subscription business.

• An introduction to herself and her business (01:24)
• The inspiration for setting up Nolo Cocktails (01:52)
• Creating the recipes (04:56)
• Finding suppliers (06:33)
• Curating her subscription boxes (08:42)
• Why she chose the subscription box model (11:43)
• The appeal of the subscription box model (14:48)
• Packing the boxes (16:30)
• Why having a niche product makes the marketing a little easier (18:22)
• Having a pop up in John Lewis and working with The Great Brand Exchange (20:54)
• Her number one piece of advice for product creators (24:55)

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

2

This is the podcast for you if

you're getting started selling

3

products, or if you'd like to

create your own product to sell.

4

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert.

5

Every week I share friendly, practical

advice, as well as inspirational

6

stories from small businesses.

7

Let's get started.

8

Hello, so today on the podcast,

I'm speaking to Hari Fell.

9

So having run her own hotel for

the past 20 years, Hari decided

10

she wanted a new challenge.

11

Having given up alcohol in 2019, she

decided to launch Nolo Cocktails and

12

Bars, bringing choice of when people

choose not to drink, through non

13

alcoholic cocktail subscriptions and

gift boxes and a mobile alcohol free bar.

14

So this was a really great conversation

I had with Hari, um, Hari offers,

15

as I just mentioned, a subscription

business for people who don't want

16

to drink alcohol, but want some

really exciting drink choices.

17

So we spoke a lot about how she

pulls together her drinks and the

18

ingredients, um, the practicalities of

running a um, subscription business.

19

I really hope you find this episode

both interesting and inspiring and I

20

would love now to introduce you to Hari.

21

So hi Hari, thank you

so much for being here.

22

Hari Fell: Thanks so much for having me.

23

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, you're welcome.

24

Can we start with you?

25

Please give an introduction to you,

your business and what you sell.

26

Hari Fell: Yeah, of course.

27

Uh, my name is Hari Fell and I'm the

founder of Nolo Cocktails and Bars.

28

And, um, we sell non alcoholic cocktail,

um, subscription and gift boxes.

29

And then we also have a mobile horsebox

bar that we take to events and festivals.

30

Um, and we do just non alcoholic

drinks and cocktails at the festivals.

31

Vicki Weinberg: Amazing.

32

Thank you.

33

Um, what, what has inspired

you to start Nolo Cocktails?

34

Hari Fell: So, well, two things really.

35

First of all, I gave up drinking

four and a half years ago.

36

Um, at the time, there were some

non alcoholic options available,

37

but they weren't massive.

38

Um, and they were reasonably basic.

39

So, seed lip has just come

onto the market at that time.

40

And then, um, there was like Nozeko,

which is your bog standard sparkling non

41

alcoholic wine and actually it's not bad

and it's very cheap, um, but now there is

42

a lot more options out there, um, and that

was part of my reasoning for doing it that

43

I wanted to be able to show people how

to use the products that were available

44

in different ways and more exciting ways

than just combining them with tonic water.

45

Um, and also in a way that meant that they

could try the different things that were

46

available without committing to buying

large bottles and, um, and then reducing

47

waste and things like that as well.

48

If they didn't like it, they

haven't bought a massive bottle.

49

Um, and then the other reason for starting

Nolo Cocktails was that, um, I've been

50

running a hotel for the past 20 years

and I fancied a new challenge, um, and

51

to do something a bit different as well.

52

So that, that was my personal reason

for looking to do something different.

53

Vicki Weinberg: Well,

that's really interesting.

54

Thank you.

55

And I think you're right.

56

If you look back, even a few years

ago, I don't think there were

57

that many non alcoholic options.

58

You know, if you went to a bar or

something, it was like have a Coke or

59

a lemonade, if you didn't want water,

if you didn't want to have a drink.

60

And now it seems like everywhere you

go, it's got lots more non alcoholic,

61

like interesting options on the menus.

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Hari Fell: Yeah, which is brilliant.

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And you know, just providing

people with that choice, I

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think it's really important.

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And it just means that you're

more part of it as well.

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I think that's the thing that a lot

of people worry about when they're

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giving up alcohol is that, you know,

going to the pub then becomes a very

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different prospect and they don't feel

part of it and they want something

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that's like an adult drink rather than

just something like a diet coke, but

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obviously without the alcohol in it.

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So the fact that there's so many

beers now available, ciders.

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There's options for everything now.

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Vicki Weinberg: And what's really nice

about your boxes is that they contain

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ingredients, don't they, so that people

can make their own non alcoholic drinks at

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home, which is also quite fun because it's

not just giving someone a non alcoholic

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beer or cider, you're actually giving

them recipes to create their own drinks.

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Hari Fell: Yeah, and you get

all of the ingredients that you

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need, um, to make those drinks.

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whether that's the garnish, so

dehydrated orange, um, for example,

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or whether it's all the different,

you know, syrups, mixes, um,

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juices and non alcoholic spirits.

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So you get everything you need to

make the drinks and you get, um,

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all of the ingredients to make at

least two, um, servings of three

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different cocktails every month.

85

Vicki Weinberg: That's amazing.

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That's, yeah, that's, that's

actually, that's actually a lot.

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Um, And how are you creating the

recipes for the cocktails, Hari?

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Is that from your, like,

experience running the hotel and

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bar or how are you working out?

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Because, yeah, I just find this

sort of thing fascinating how you

91

know what goes with what and how

you actually put a drink together.

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Hari Fell: So, um, my starting point

is normally the supplier's website

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if I'm working with a non alcoholic

spirit and then trial and error.

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So, I normally take, you know, I can

go through lots and lots of different

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variations just trying to get the

balance right on the ingredients.

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Um, some, you know, I don't want to

make all of the cocktails really sweet.

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Some people like sweet drinks, but then

other people like really sour drinks.

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So it's just trying to get

the balance right as well.

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And they're having at least sort

of one that might be sweeter, but

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then one that might be more sour.

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So that there's something hopefully

in each box that everyone loves.

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Um, even if the other ones that they're

less keen on, it's a good way to try

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different things and realize what

you do and you don't like as well.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, I guess

that must be quite fun, actually.

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Hari Fell: Yeah.

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Yeah, it is.

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Yeah, no, I mean, it's fun

doing the recipes and trying

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to get the balance right.

109

Um.

110

Uh.

111

Yeah, I do drink quite a lot of cocktails.

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Vicki Weinberg: But at

least they're non alcoholic.

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Hari Fell: Yeah, exactly.

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yeah.

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No, I mean, I can be doing it, you know,

10 o'clock in the morning and it's fine.

116

I don't have to worry about it.

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Um, and I can always drive afterwards.

118

So it's fine.

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Vicki Weinberg: That is good.

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So you mentioned that you often

like what you're getting from a

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supplier is the starting point.

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So how, talk a little

bit about that process.

123

So do you, how do you find suppliers that,

you know, to source your products from?

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Hari Fell: Um, so in terms of

sourcing products, what I've done

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so far is I've really tried to keep,

um, it to small UK based suppliers.

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Um, so what's involved in sort

of going to industry events, um,

127

networking within the non alcoholic

industry, you know, LinkedIn's a great

128

place to, to connect with people.

129

Um, and yeah, and yeah, search

engines, social media, just

130

trying to find people that way.

131

Um, and there's quite a lot

of small UK based brands.

132

Um, so I've really, I love championing

small businesses and I think.

133

When we all do well, we all do well.

134

So, uh, very much of that mindset.

135

Um, and so far I haven't really had to

go further afield than the UK to find

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the suppliers that I'm working with.

137

Vicki Weinberg: That's brilliant.

138

And are you working with the

same suppliers for every box

139

or are you trying to feature as

many different ones as possible?

140

I mean, I guess that's.

141

Yeah, there's probably a

bit of both, I imagine.

142

Hari Fell: Um, yeah, so some suppliers

will obviously have different,

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quite a few different products.

144

Um, for example, Anon Drinks, they

do a bittersweet aperitif, they do a

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rum, they do an English garden, which

is like Pimm's, um, and, um, they do

146

their own bottled Negroni as well.

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So with, um, a company like that.

148

I've got several different boxes

that I can do from the one company,

149

but I do, I wouldn't do five

months of Anon just because they've

150

got five different products.

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So I'll choose one product.

152

Um, and then concentrate on that for that

month, and then I'll choose a completely

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different supplier for the next month.

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So I try and mix it up as much as

possible so that people that are

155

getting the subscription boxes get

that range and variety as well.

156

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, I guess it's

also a nice way for your customers to

157

discover new brands and new products.

158

Hari Fell: Yeah, definitely.

159

Yeah.

160

I mean, for example, sort of on the rums,

there's quite a lot of non alcoholic rums.

161

Um, so try and spread them out so that

it's not rum, a different rum every month.

162

But, um, actually the rums are really

good on the non alcoholic side.

163

All the suppliers seem to have done

an amazing job with their rums.

164

Vicki Weinberg: That's really

interesting, because I'll be honest I

165

haven't tried many non-alcoholic drinks.

166

I think I've tried gin and

cider I think are the main ones.

167

Um, and the Nosecco, whatever it's called.

168

Um, because every supermarket

seems to do a version of that.

169

So that's really interesting.

170

I hadn't thought about the fact that

there are now more non alcoholic spirits.

171

Hari Fell: Yeah, there's

quite a wide range.

172

Um, you've got a large supplier,

um, called Lyre's who are

173

actually based in Australia.

174

And I think they've got a

version of everything that is

175

non alcoholic, that is alcoholic.

176

They've got the non alcoholic version.

177

Um, so that can be quite a

good place to start for people.

178

But, um, I actually haven't

used Lyre's in any of my boxes.

179

Um, and that's because they're

not UK based, but with the,

180

the rums are really good.

181

Um, the gins, there's lots of different

non alcoholic gin varieties out there.

182

Um, my personal favorites, New

London Light, they do three different

183

gins and they're all lovely.

184

Um, so yeah, I mean, there's also

some not very nice stuff out there.

185

So I do, do make sure whatever goes

in my boxes that I personally like.

186

Um, I appreciate we all have different

tastes, but I certainly don't want to be

187

sending something out that I don't enjoy.

188

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that

makes, that makes total sense.

189

You're right, actually.

190

I've, um, I've tried lots of you of

these no seco's and some of them are

191

actually, some of them are nice and some

of them can be just a bit, I don't know.

192

Sugary, which isn't, which again,

isn't to my taste, but of course it's

193

to somebody else that might be lovely,

but yeah, it is, it is hard, isn't it?

194

So I guess it's great that you're trying

to get a balance across the boxes and

195

try, you know, different, different

types of drinks, different flavours,

196

and how far in advance are you having

to plan out what goes into each one?

197

Because your boxes are,

um, your subscription boxes

198

are monthly, aren't they?

199

Hari Fell: Yeah, so, um, at least

a month in advance, I'll know what

200

I'm putting in the next month's box.

201

Um, I'm trying to do it sort of on

a quarterly basis, sort of planned

202

out at the beginning of the year,

what main spirit was going in each

203

box, um, and the theme of each box.

204

But then sort of quarterly

looking at, actually, okay, I've

205

got, for example, Anon's Rum.

206

What am I going to do with it?

207

What, what are going to be the, the three

cocktails that we do, um, with that?

208

So trying to do that planning on a

quarterly basis, but make sure that at

209

least a month in advance, I know what

I'm sending out the following month.

210

Vicki Weinberg: That makes sense.

211

And I guess I know I'm asking lots of

logistic questions, but I think for

212

anyone interested in a subscription

box model, I think it's just going to

213

be really fascinating and interesting.

214

Um, because actually that's

a good point, actually.

215

So what, um, what made you decide

to go down the subscription box

216

route as opposed to selling?

217

Because I know you have some boxes

you can buy year round, that's

218

correct, isn't it, on your website?

219

Hari Fell: Yeah, so I've

got gift boxes as well.

220

It started off that I was just thinking

I would just do subscription boxes, um,

221

but actually I found, I launched, um,

I did a really soft launch in November

222

last year, um, and I actually found

that the one off subscription boxes sold

223

really well in the run up to Christmas.

224

I was just doing a couple

of small Christmas fairs.

225

Um, and, you know, there's often

times where maybe you want to

226

gift something to somebody.

227

They might be pregnant

or doing dry January.

228

Um, and actually there's,

there's quite a big market, I

229

think, for, for one off boxes.

230

Um, but yeah, it started with, I was

going to do it as a subscription model.

231

Um, for people that, you know, want

a choice when they're not drinking.

232

Um, and I think I just found

somebody online actually.

233

I was just wondering, kind of thinking

what other business I could do apart

234

from the hotel, and this has worked out

quite nicely actually because there's

235

quite a large element of hospitality.

236

And obviously I've got

lots of bar experience.

237

Um, and as a result of launching

Nolo, we now have expanded our

238

range at the hotel as well of non

alcoholic cocktails and wines.

239

So it's, it's kind of fitted into both,

both businesses really, really nicely.

240

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that makes

total sense, actually, given

241

your hospitality background.

242

Um, yeah, that really, that really does.

243

And as you said, you probably have

contacts as well for suppliers and...

244

Hari Fell: Yeah, that, I mean,

that definitely made it easier.

245

My original idea was that I thought I'd do

cocktail boxes, um, but then actually...

246

Um, well, two thoughts that

led me to do non alcoholic.

247

First of all, was just niching.

248

And, you know, everybody says

that it's better to niche and

249

have your area of expertise.

250

And then also the realization

that I don't drink.

251

So if I was making new cocktails, I

wouldn't be tasting them, or I'd have to

252

taste them and then spit it out again.

253

Um, so, um, it just made sense really to

concentrate on the non alcoholic market.

254

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

255

And I think that is fairly niche.

256

I don't know.

257

I mean, I have seen cocktail box

subscriptions, but I know, and also

258

you can get the gin ones and the rum

ones and you can get subscription

259

boxes for all kinds of things.

260

But am I right in thinking you're

the only, or at least among the

261

few non alcoholic cocktail boxes?

262

Hari Fell: Um, I know of one other

in the UK, um, but they're doing

263

something slightly different and

they're concentrating more on, um,

264

non alcoholic spirits and mixes.

265

So it's less of kind of the, the

cocktails, you know, less getting out

266

the cocktail shaker or building, um,

different ingredients into the cocktails.

267

So theirs is more, they, they, they

describe themselves as a non alcoholic

268

subscript, spirit subscription box.

269

So that it is different.

270

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, so you've

definitely found a niche there.

271

Hari Fell: Yeah.

272

Yeah.

273

I think so.

274

Yeah.

275

Vicki Weinberg: Um, what

is it that appealed to you

276

about the subscription model?

277

Because you know, to me, I feel like,

oh gosh, it seems like hard work

278

that you've got to every month, think

of, you know, what goes in and then

279

presumably package the boxes every month.

280

And, um, yeah, what was it that, what

was it that made you think, oh, actually

281

subscription would be the way to go?

282

Hari Fell: Um, well, I thought it would

be quite a nice sort of like recurring

283

revenue model that, um, you know, once

you know, provided obviously people

284

are happy with their subscriptions,

they are welcome to cancel at any time,

285

but, you know, you'd hopefully keep

the same person at least for a few

286

months, if not longer, um, provided

the quality is there on the boxes.

287

And so it just seemed like it, it seemed

like potentially an easier way rather than

288

just selling one off boxes all the time.

289

You know, you'd be looking for

fewer new customers every month.

290

Um, because whilst there's a churn

obviously on subscription boxes, you

291

know, as I say, if you've got somebody

for, you know, six to ten months.

292

Um, that's easier than trying to find

six to ten people to buy one off boxes.

293

So that was the reason for

trying the subscription model.

294

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

295

And you're right.

296

That does make total sense because I mean,

I guess they were always going to be a

297

percentage of people who unsubscribe.

298

Hopefully there'll be a high percentage

of people who sign up every month.

299

Hari Fell: Yeah, exactly.

300

So yeah.

301

Yeah.

302

Obviously the plan every month

for a subscription business

303

is to build your subscribers.

304

You know you'll lose if you, um,

but hopefully you're bringing

305

in more than you're losing.

306

Vicki Weinberg: And logistically,

again, because I've got so many

307

questions about the logistics of this,

are you pulling together, physically

308

putting the boxes together yourself?

309

Hari Fell: Yes, so at the moment I'm not

big enough to, um, pay anybody to help

310

me, so I'm doing all the boxes myself.

311

I do have a unit now, um, nearby

that I use to, for storage and

312

also to pack the boxes as well.

313

Vicki Weinberg: But that's really nice

though, because I guess this is, this

314

is the sort of thing where you can

be doing it yourself now, but, you

315

know, in a couple of years it can be

something that somebody else could be

316

doing for you, and you could just be

focusing on the bits that you enjoy.

317

Yeah.

318

Researching the drinks and, and sourcing

components and things like that.

319

Hari Fell: Yeah.

320

Yeah, definitely.

321

I think it's just the same with

any new business, isn't it?

322

Initially you do everything yourself

and then you hope that you get big

323

enough that you can start to outsource

the bits that you don't enjoy.

324

I think that's got to be

everybody's reason for going

325

into business for themselves.

326

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

327

Absolutely.

328

But I think what's really good is

it sounds like it's a model where

329

somebody else could do it for you.

330

You're not creating something that can't

be outsourced if you see what I mean.

331

Hari Fell: Yeah.

332

Vicki Weinberg: Because depending on

the kind of products you sell, you know,

333

sometimes if you're hand making for

example, obviously that's a lot harder to.

334

Hari Fell: Yeah.

335

Yeah.

336

No, exactly.

337

I mean, yeah.

338

Um, packing the boxes is, is really easy.

339

So, you know, anybody can

pack, pack the boxes really.

340

It's um, curating the boxes,

putting them together, and then

341

coming up with the recipes.

342

That's, that's the bit that I need to do.

343

Yeah.

344

But actually, the putting the boxes

together is quite simple and manual.

345

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

346

So at some point along the

line, hopefully that will be

347

something that you won't be doing.

348

Hari Fell: Yeah, absolutely.

349

Yeah.

350

One day.

351

Vicki Weinberg: Okay.

352

So how are you, um, something else

I'm quite curious about, if you

353

don't mind me asking, is how are

you sort of getting the word out

354

about your boxes and what you offer?

355

Because it's, as you say,

it's relatively niche.

356

Do you think that in terms of

marketing, does that make it easier or?

357

Less easy.

358

Hari Fell: I think in a way it's

easier because, um, you know, I accept

359

that my product isn't for everybody.

360

Um, so it's easier to niche

down, um, and know that you're

361

not going to speak to everybody.

362

I think if you've got a product where

actually anybody could buy it, then I

363

think you would be more tempted to try

lots of different marketing techniques.

364

Whereas, actually, I'm only speaking to

a small percentage of the population,

365

um, that, that does make it easier.

366

I mean, in terms of, of marketing,

it's something that I need

367

to now concentrate more on.

368

I've been, um, working very much

in my other business until the

369

last couple of weeks, actually.

370

So now is my time to

really concentrate on Nolo.

371

Um, it's taken longer than I

thought to kind of take myself

372

out of the other business.

373

Um, and so now I need to concentrate

on the marketing and the marketing

374

I'll be doing is, um, email marketing,

which I think is incredibly effective.

375

So anything to build my

email list of subscribers.

376

And then social media, you know, I think

for most of us is a, is an absolute must.

377

Um, so mainly for me, that will

probably be Facebook and Instagram.

378

And then, um, in the run up to Christmas,

I'm doing lots of Christmas markets

379

and I've got a pop up booked at John

Lewis in Bristol as well for a week.

380

So I'm hoping, yeah, which is great.

381

So I, I'm hoping, you know, all of

that, it's just being visible, isn't it?

382

Sort of, you know, and trying to get

where you think your customers will be.

383

Vicki Weinberg: Absolutely.

384

But I'm sure there's plenty coming

up with Christmas and then dry

385

January, of course, as well.

386

Hari Fell: Yeah.

387

Yeah.

388

So, yeah.

389

So what I'll be selling at the Christmas

fairs is, and in John Lewis, because I've

390

got that in November, is, um, I'll be

selling, um, Christmas cocktail boxes,

391

a dry January box and a celebration

box with New Year coming up so you

392

know all the fizzy, nice bubbly drinks.

393

Vicki Weinberg: I think that

sounds brilliant and so well

394

thought through as well.

395

And if you don't mind me

asking, how, how do you get

396

the, um, the slot in John Lewis?

397

I've heard of a few small brands doing

that recently, and I know John Lewis

398

are real supportive of small businesses.

399

So is that something you have to apply for

in your local store or is it something?

400

Hari Fell: I got it through

the Great Brand Exchange.

401

So I applied through the

Great Brand Exchange.

402

They do, um, they.

403

They do John Lewis, they do

Primark, and they do, they've got

404

the Country Living Christmas Fair,

and they do a few others as well.

405

But they do all of the John Lewis ones,

so I applied through them to do it.

406

Um, and you can, you can say which John

Lewis's you want to go to, um, and Bristol

407

for them is actually quite a new one.

408

So they've only just started in Bristol.

409

Um, and that's my nearest John Lewis.

410

So it kind of made sense to start there.

411

It kind of minimizes the need to,

well, minimizes the cost because

412

I don't need to stay anywhere.

413

I can come home every night.

414

Vicki Weinberg: Well, that's brilliant.

415

So that's the great brand exchange.

416

If anyone wants to go and take a look

and see what the opportunities are.

417

Oh, that's brilliant.

418

And I think coming back to your marketing,

I do think that what's a real advantage

419

I think is that, you know, we, you're

really clear on who your customers

420

are and of course who they aren't.

421

Um, yeah, just coming back to something

you were saying before, I think that

422

is definitely an advantage because if

you're going, what, there's nothing

423

wrong with buying wide by the way.

424

Lots of people have products that

can appeal to a group of people, but

425

I think that can, that can actually

be really challenging in itself.

426

If there's different groups of people

who might buy your product or a real

427

wide range, I definitely think you've

got a really clear idea of who it

428

is your selling to, and I think that

must be really beneficial because you

429

know exactly who you're talking to.

430

Hari Fell: Yeah, I think it is.

431

I think it makes it easier.

432

I think, you know, it's very easy as small

business owners to get overwhelmed by all

433

the different things that we need to do.

434

Um, and I think if you're speaking to lots

of different people about your product,

435

that probably is more overwhelming

than just thinking, well, you know,

436

there's just a small subsection of the

population that I need to speak to.

437

Um, and different groups to

go into on Facebook and, you

438

know, promote your things.

439

You know, I'm not going into

lots of different groups.

440

Um, I'm just going into ones

that are very specific for the

441

non alcoholic and non drinkers.

442

and people looking to get sober.

443

So it's very specific.

444

And I think, I think that does make

it easier and less overwhelming.

445

Vicki Weinberg: Absolutely.

446

And actually you just also

mentioned Facebook groups.

447

That's also a really good way, I

guess, of getting your products out.

448

If you have got a product like yours,

that's targeting a certain niche

449

or a certain demographic, there are

Facebook groups, everything on there.

450

So it seems that getting into those

groups and of course, it's also

451

an actual fit for you because you

mentioned that you gave up drinking.

452

So you're, I guess you're

naturally part of that community.

453

Yeah.

454

As well.

455

So you're not just in there to sell,

presumably you're also a member of that

456

community because that's your community.

457

Hari Fell: Yeah, absolutely.

458

And yeah, I mean, I think if

you're in any Facebook groups, you

459

can't be in there just to sell.

460

You have to be in it for the value.

461

You know, um, if people are in several

non alcoholic groups and, you know,

462

people will be asking for advice

either on, you know, what's the best

463

red wine or what's, you know, how did

everyone deal with this situation.

464

So it's just making sure you're

commenting on all of those and actually

465

being a social member of the group as

well as promoting your own product.

466

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that's what

I mean, because I feel like you're,

467

as you're part of that community,

you're part of the community anyway.

468

But if there's an opportunity, if

someone says, oh, I'm looking for a

469

good gift for someone who's recently

given up drinking, or I don't know

470

what I'm going to drink at New Year.

471

Presumably you can also talk about

what you sell, but in a really nice

472

natural way, because you're, yeah,

you're part of that community.

473

Well, thank you so much, Hari.

474

I'm going to be linking to

your website in the show notes.

475

Everyone can see your boxes.

476

So I see your one off boxes

as well as your subscriptions.

477

Um, my final question before we

finish, and I ask everybody this

478

is what is your number one piece of

advice for other product creators?

479

Hari Fell: Oh, wow.

480

Okay.

481

Number one piece of advice

is, um, don't give up.

482

I think it's really easy to,

um, be overwhelmed and put off

483

when things start going wrong.

484

It's going to take a while.

485

Expect it to take a minimum, I

would say, of one to two years

486

before you are successful.

487

And you have to be willing to put

in that hard work to make it work.

488

Um, but along the way, there will be

lots of things that happen that make you

489

feel that like you want to give up and

don't always think, always think back

490

to, you know, you're three feet away from

gold and success lies at the point where

491

most people will have already given up.

492

So you've got to be the person

that sticks at it the longest.

493

Vicki Weinberg: That's really good advice.

494

Thank you.

495

I think you're absolutely right there.

496

Yeah.

497

I don't think you know, there's

always a little bit of hardship.

498

And I remember you, when you talked

earlier about you thought you would have

499

steps away from your other business, but

sooner, I think everything takes longer

500

than you think it's going to as well.

501

And I think that's just really worth

knowing because I think we all have these

502

plans of, oh, I have this done by the end

of the year, or I'll be here in six months

503

or whatever, but I think just accepting

that you get one, it will be hard and two,

504

it will always invariably take longer.

505

Um, it's just really worth knowing.

506

So thank you.

507

That's a really, that's a really,

really good reminder because things very

508

rarely go the way we expect them to.

509

Hari Fell: Yeah.

510

And I think the overnight successes

that you see that are out there,

511

they're not overnight successes.

512

They've worked for years

to get to that point.

513

Um, and it's just all you've

seen is the successful bits.

514

And I think that can be you know,

misleading, not that they're trying to

515

mislead us, but the way that inevitably

things work is we think, oh, they've

516

come from nowhere and they're amazing.

517

But actually we haven't seen the

four or five years that they've

518

been toiling away at their craft

before they've hit that success.

519

So yeah.

520

I think that's always true.

521

Vicki Weinberg: That is such

a good reminder, because

522

it's really funny, isn't it?

523

It almost as if we think someone,

I don't know, as soon as someone or

524

something comes into our consciousness,

into our world somehow, we think

525

they've just appeared, you know,

and without realising actually this

526

products or this person could have

been around for the past 10 years.

527

We just didn't hear of them.

528

Yeah.

529

But it's funny, until someone comes

into your universe somehow you just,

530

you just assume they don't exist.

531

Yeah.

532

Um, so that's a really good reminder

because I think we are all definitely

533

guilty of that, of going, oh, that's

come out of nowhere, or, oh, I

534

didn't know they were doing that.

535

So yeah, you're right.

536

And I think the worst thing we

can do is compare ourselves to

537

anybody, because as you say, you

just don't know the backstory.

538

You don't know how long someone

else has taken to get there,

539

what they've gone through.

540

And of course the grass is always greener.

541

It always looks like everyone

else has got it figured out.

542

And yeah, it's done it much

easier, but that's, I think that's

543

very rarely the actual case.

544

Hari Fell: Yeah, it's always making sure

that you're looking at how far you've come

545

rather than we always look at how far we

want to go and we don't sometimes look

546

backwards and think, actually, you know,

I have achieved quite a lot this year.

547

It may not be as much as

you set out to achieve.

548

It may not have been as much as

you wanted, but I'm sure that

549

you've achieved a lot in that time.

550

And so it's looking at that and

saying, right, what have I achieved?

551

What have I learned?

552

And how can I take that

forward now and move forward?

553

Vicki Weinberg: That's

such a lovely reminder.

554

Thank you.

555

And I, I think that

everyone should do that now.

556

I think we're coming to

the end of the podcast.

557

I think everyone should take five minutes.

558

Have a cup of tea and think about

how far you've gone, because

559

you're, that's a, you're right.

560

Because even if you think that, oh, I

haven't done much, you know, you haven't

561

stood still, we've all achieved loads.

562

This, you know, by the time this goes

out, it'll be towards the end of the year.

563

But we all will have done loads this

year and gone much further than we think.

564

So thank you.

565

That's such a lovely reminder

and such a nice way to end.

566

Thank you so much, Hari.

567

Hari Fell: Thank you

very much for having me.

568

Vicki Weinberg: I'm so glad.

569

Hari Fell: Really enjoyed it.

570

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you

so much for listening right

571

to the end of this episode.

572

Do remember that you can get the

full back catalogue and lots of free

573

resources on my website, vickiweinberg.

574

com.

575

Please do remember to rate and review

this episode if you've enjoyed it

576

and also share it with a friend

who you think might find it useful.

577

Thank you again and see you next week.