67. Effective Strategies for Advisories and SEL with Leslie Cuprill
Episode 67 • 3rd July 2024 • Counselor Chat Podcast • Carol Miller, School Counselor
00:00:00 00:31:21

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In this episode:

I am thrilled to have my friend Leslie from Informed Decisions join us. Leslie is a fantastic social worker based in Brooklyn, New York, with a wealth of experience working with diverse groups, including court-involved youth, LGBTQ+ individuals, teen mothers, special needs populations, and fellow educators.

Leslie shares her invaluable insights on advisories and SEL (Social Emotional Learning) programs, providing practical advice and real-world examples to help school counselors effectively engage their students and create impactful programs.

Key Highlights:

  • Leslie’s Background: Get to know Leslie and her extensive experience working with various populations and settings.
  • Starting from Scratch: Leslie offers actionable tips for counselors who are new to advisories and SEL programs or need to start from scratch.
  • Importance of Space and Resources: Learn how understanding your space and available resources can significantly impact the success of your programs.
  • Using Existing Resources: Discover the value of connecting with existing programs and curriculums to avoid reinventing the wheel and save time.
  • Collecting and Using Data: Leslie emphasizes the importance of data collection in demonstrating the impact of your programs to administration and stakeholders.
  • Favorite Groups and Programs: Leslie shares her favorite types of groups and programs to run, and why advisory programs hold a special place in her heart.
  • Practical Tips: From over-planning to the magic of lamination, Leslie and I share our top tips for staying organized and prepared.

Special Mention: Leslie will also be one of our esteemed presenters at the 2024 Summer Counselor Conference!

Don’t miss the opportunity to learn from her extensive experience and practical advice.

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Grab the Show Notes: Counselingessentials.org/podcast


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Transcripts

Carol: You're listening to the counselor Chat podcast, a show for school counselors looking for easy to implement strategies, how to tips, collaboration, and a little spark of joy. I'm Carol Miller, your host. I'm a full time school counselor and the face behind counseling essentials. I'm all about creating simplified systems, data driven practices, and using creative approaches to engage students. If you're looking for a little inspiration to help you make a big impact on student growth and success in the right place, because we're better together.

Carol: Ready to chat?

Carol: Let's dive in.

Carol: I am so excited. The:

Carol: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Counselor Chat. This is Carol, and I am here today with my friend Leslie from informed decisions. If you don't know Leslie, Leslie is a social worker who lives in Brooklyn, New York, and she has worked with a really diverse range of individuals, including those that were involved in core or gang involved youth, LGBTQ plus individuals, teen mothers, special need populations, as well as well other educators. And Leslie has a lot of really great information to share with us today, and I'm really excited to bring her onto the podcast. So, Leslie, welcome.

Leslie: Hi. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I'm really excited.

Carol: So for those of you that don't know, Leslie is also one of our presenters this summer at the summer counselor conference, and her session is all about advisories and or sel programs, particularly at the upper levels. And so what do you do if you're thrown into that and you have no idea what to do? So Leslie's going to share all her little words of wisdom on that. And yeah, Leslie, can you give us like, a little kind of, like, description as to, well, why don't you start with, like, who you are and what you do and all that stuff.

Leslie: So I've, I guess I have been working with youth and educators for a really long time. And what I really love doing right now is sharing all the information that is stuck in my head that I've learned over the past few years with people on how they can make what they're doing easier and engage their students in the easiest way that they possibly can. And for the topic, I've been there with a lot of different groups, you know, that I did for SGL. I think the one that was definitely for me was like the biggest, okay, we want to do a rites of passage for males. Can you do that? And my response was, usually it's led by a male. So their response was, well, you're ethnic, so that's close enough. I'm like, I'm not really sure how ethnicity equates with gender, but that was their response to leading this group. And I feel like as counselors, we are often asked to, someone has an idea in their head and they're like, hey, we want to do this group. Can you do it? And then you're like, hey, okay, so what do you want me to do? And they're like, you just figure it out. And I feel like a lot of times we get stuck with that as counselors on, all right, I have to start this from scratch. Where do I begin? So for the conference that we're doing, I figured, okay, you're asked to do an advisory program and sel program. Where do you start? So I kind of laid out some questions and ask administration and different steps that you could take regardless of what the program is, to kind of help you design and structure it so it makes doing your group or your class a little bit smoother.

Carol: Yeah, that I think is so helpful. I know when I was at the upper levels, it was kind of like, oh, you're going to run like a group with these six students. It's like, oh, okay, well, what am I going to be doing a group with them with? Oh, you'll figure it out. And I just, I just love when they said, you'll figure it out, like, oh, I have this magic wand in my back pocket at all times that it just helps me figure things out. So, yeah, I get it. What are some of the groups that you've been asked to do in the past?

Leslie: So, like, I'm signed because there's so many. I feel like.

Carol: I know that was a pretty big sigh, too. Yeah.

Leslie: The boys and the girls rites of passage were definitely ones that came up a lot I don't think as much anymore that they're gender based, because I think we're moving away from that. I've done everything from a following directions group to that was with a little bit of younger kids. But for my middle and high school, I had one where, because it's electives, they're allowed to put more students in. So the teacher had begged me to pull, to do a pull out. So that was one where I let them shape what we wanted to do because they had too many students in the classroom to be, you know, for them to be able to get their material across. So I did a pull out for that. I've done a drug and alcohol prevention group that was, like, youth led and adult guided. I've done. I'm sure there's more. These are the ones that I'm thinking up off the top of my head, but I feel like every year there was some new kind of group that was asked and advisory has been the most consistent, I think, over the years, I guess. Conflict. I've taught classes as well, so they've had me teach classes. So I've done the conflict resolution media programs, things like. Sorry, the mediation programs, things like that.

Carol: Okay. All right. As you were, like, mentioning at least one of your groups, especially, like the. For, like, drugs and alcoholism and things like that. I think if somebody ever asked me to do a group like that, I would be, like, sweating bullets. Like, I wouldn't even know how to begin or what to talk about or any of that stuff. Did you ever feel like, oh, my gosh, I'm so not prepared for this material?

Leslie: Well, that one. So luckily that when I'm connected to this program, they're called youth to youth. They're out of Columbus, Ohio. So every year, it's kind of stopped as much since COVID but every year they did a conference where you go in person and they give you the skills and you bring your students with you if you have the group already set up, so you can go. If you haven't had a group and you want to start a group and you're a leader, or once you have them, you bring their kids, and it's like. It's a way. It's like a method that they teach of kind of, like, there's fun ways to do things without drugs and alcohol, and it's been really great. They haven't had one here in the eastern states. They have one in Ohio the past two years, but because of COVID like, they've had to regain their funding. But it was super.

Carol: Great.

Leslie: So that's where I felt like it was easier for me because it wasn't like, don't do drugs. It's more about teaching them what they need to know, and then you have, and I know you've talked about, like, a mediation program than you've done in the past where your kids kind of let it. And that's the same model that I've used with that. So it was really successful that way. So I feel like sometimes we don't realize that there are other resources out there so we don't have to reinvent the wheel. So because I feel like. Because we look at all this stuff and everyone says, don't wear multiple hats, but I feel like that's untrue with counselors. Like, you have to wear multiple hats because there's always a new topic that comes up and it's always changing. So I feel like connecting to things that already exist sometimes, for me, has been really helpful, and it doesn't mean it's going to be a perfect fit. Right. Because we're all in different areas with different populations. But if you have a really good core curriculum of whatever it is, we can tweak it to fit the needs of our students. And I think that makes a difference, because even in creating curriculum, we look at stuff where for math, it doesn't change. They don't really change. I mean, I guess the new math for younger kids, but it's pretty much the same. But for us, it's always, like, a new topic or a new way that's politically correct, that we need to make sure we're working with our students.

Carol: Yeah, I definitely. I agree with that because I think for us in particular, as counselors, we definitely have to really keep up with anything new that's coming out there. I mean, mental health has changed so much in the last ten years, not to mention this is really. I'm 30 plus years in. It's really changed a lot in 30 years. You really have to, I think, keep educating yourself as to. All right, what do I need to know now? What do I need to know now? What do I have to learn about so that I can really be the best helper for my kids?

Leslie: And I feel like a lot of times, like, the basis of stuff kind of stays the same. Like, social, emotional learning has gotten, like, this new name, like you said, like, in the past ten, maybe 15 years, which it's always been the same type of, like, life skills, social skills, and, like, the names of stuff also changes the same, but the definitely the nuances around it is what changes for us.

Carol: I will even say, like, I think back when I started, it was, you are going to be teaching character ed. And that has shifted to more of the social emotional learning. And while they're, I think, pretty similar, they're kind of almost on opposite ends of the spectrum in some regards, too. So even though there's like a ton of overlap, which is kind of interesting.

Leslie: Because isn't with the character ed what everybody is like up in arms in some places about? And they're calling it social emotional learning.

Carol: Yeah, I think so. Character Ed is like, hey, we are going to teach you how to be responsible and how to be trustworthy, and we want you to ascribe to all these values that we're going to teach you about. Where I think is sel is more of, we are going to give you this basis of how to resolve problems and to understand what empathy is and to learn different perspectives. And then you take that and you develop your own values. So it's. Yeah, but, yeah, it's kind of what people are all up in arms about.

Leslie: Yeah. Which is something I definitely have to learn from other places because I feel like in New York, it's not as when I hear other people saying like, oh, it's a struggle for our SEl program because parents are against it. And I feel like I've never heard that here. And maybe it exists, but for me it's not been my experience because they're like, great. If this is what you're going to teach our kids, then it helps us as parents.

Carol: So.

Leslie: And I've heard, like, people in other states definitely struggle because parents feel like it's something that you're teaching children values, I guess.

Carol: Right. You're indoctrinating. Indoctrinating. Did I say that? Right. Them into a particular way of thinking. And I don't necessarily believe that. But anyway, if you could give some advice to a counselor that's maybe brand new and is asked to go into their school and to start some programs, what do you think they should, how should they start? What should they do?

Leslie: Well, so in the workshop, I give a free handout with a list of questions for them to exactly ask what admin needs from them, what admin needs from them. And you want to start with just even knowing how many students you have or where the location is, all those things are really important to help shape the program that you're doing because it even comes down to space. And I don't know, I know some people I see their offices, and I'm just so enamored by their full classroom size office, which is so exciting. But I've had some really crazy spaces over the years where the worst for a group was an old locker room with like a giant red carpet on the floor, and they didn't even have seats for the students to sit anywhere, like, sat on the floor in a circle. It was, that was definitely one of the worst for doing groups. So there wasn't a lot of room to move around and do interactive activities. So that's this kind of stuff that, that really impacts the space that you have and what you can do as far as your activities. So kind of knowing all those things, just even down to, all right, if I have to do one on one counseling or if I have to do scheduling or whatever your schedule is, you need to know how long it's going to take you to get to that space. All these little things that we don't think about kind of help us know what we need to do and how much we can plan. And if you're lucky and have it in your own space and all your materials are there, but if you're moving around the school building, then you definitely need one of the pulley, you know, the push carts, and have it set up and ready to go. So that's definitely been my experience over.

Carol: Over the years that I would agree with that. Like, you definitely need to know what your space is because I share an office and so I'm not always in there to run like a group or whatever. And I might have to take kids into the hallway because, like, we have some, like, little nooks where we have tables and I might have to take them there or I might have to take them into the cafeteria or some other location.

Leslie: I've been in the cafeteria. We've definitely done a group where they've split it with one of those divider walls and had two. Those were advisory classes of 30 that I had at that time, and they had split them. Yeah, that was probably thirties. Not the easiest to manage.

Carol: Not at all. But in terms of like, I don't know. I know that when I, when people ask me like, hey, I want to start running groups, I'm not really sure what to do. I always try to say, like, start with something that you feel you're an expert at first before, like, taking on something that you've never done before. I don't know. What advice would you give? The same advice, or what would you do?

Leslie: I mean, I feel like if you've been doing it for a few years, but when you're new, I think everything's new, right? Like if you just started, everything's new to you, so you have no idea what to do. You're like, oh, great, a group. Maybe you did that on your internship, but that's definitely true.

Carol: What are your favorite groups to run or classes to teach?

Leslie: I actually have a freebie that is a handout and I can send you the link, too.

Carol: Okay, great.

Leslie: Attach it to this. That it's a list of skills and topics that I've done before. So, you know, you have mentioned before, they're like, here, do something. You'll figure it out. I give them this handout and it's like digital, a print, whatever makes you happy. And that's how I've shaped some of my groups where, okay, these are the topics that they're most interested in. Let's focus on that. So hopefully that's helpful for some people that are starting new. And then I think your next question was, what are your favorite ones that I.

Carol: What are your favorites to run?

Leslie: I mean, I feel like advisory is just my ultimate favorite because we get to do every topic and then you see such a change because it's more long term. You see a change from the beginning to the end with your students over the years that you form the relationships, and you also see a change in the school culture. So that always tends to be my favorite. But I know that's a harder thing to set up than a twelve week group.

Carol: I'm trying to think of another question to ask you. When it comes to advisory, would you ever like for somebody who maybe doesn't have advisory in the school that they're working at, but maybe has come from a school that has advisory, how would you maybe encourage them to, like, start small and bring it, kind of bring it with them?

Leslie: So they've done advisory in another school?

Carol: Yeah. Or they know, at least maybe they know what it is and their current school doesn't have it and they're like, yeah, that would be really cool. I want to be able to, to teach the kids and to have some sort of class with them and maybe my school doesn't have Sel lessons.

Leslie: What would you, so two things I would say to that. One is I'm going to provide you another link for how to get principal and admin buy in because without your admin on board, you're not, you're not going anywhere with that. So I have that for, you know, I've definitely worked with principals that were absolutely. Like no and got them to do it. And you're super lucky if you have a principal that is excited about it and you want to do it. But if you are trying to prove that it works, do a small group with this, like a sample group with the same type of lessons that you would do. Set it up that you can show them you want to have some templates ready that you can hand teachers when they start doing it and facilitating it. I mean, there are a bunch of different ways. If you get the principal and the admin buy in and they're willing to do it, you can do everything from coaching to help you develop your program to buying curriculums to shape what you want. So there's a lot of different ways that you can go about it. But if you're looking to prove that it actually works, start with a small group and record your data from the beginning to the end and get your information, your demographics from the principal. So are these students that have, have had a lot of detentions or suspensions? Are these students that have absentee problems? Whatever the issue is that you're looking to address, you know, make that so you can collect data on anything from absenteeism to suspension rates and, and get the demographics from your admin. So this way you can compare it from the beginning of the group to the end. But you'd probably want to make it, I mean, a little longer than twelve sessions. If you're trying to show a program that's going to be a full year program, but you can model it one year, have it show the differences. The huge difference, though, between the advisory is it ends up being like a school culture. So just one group of students behaving, if everybody's on the same page and doing the same thing, it does make a huge shift. And there's a lot of data and proven programs that already exist out there so you don't have to reinvent everything.

Carol: I think that's really important, and I'm glad that you talk about using not only data that's already out there that people have done to kind of prove the worthiness of a program, but also using your own data at school to really build a program that is needed. And I think so many times counselors, well, I think everybody, not just counselors, but people like to cut the corners because they don't, they feel like they don't have the time. If they're going to cut a corner, it's going to be about collecting the data. But that data part is so important to not only say this is what we need. But really developing a program that's going to really be effective.

Leslie: Yeah. Otherwise, yeah, completely agree.

Carol: Because that's what they hear.

Leslie: They hear numbers and data. They want to see results. And it's very hard for us as counselors to measure changes in behavior because it's so subjective. So just making that data very black and white, like, this is what we're looking at. This is what we need.

Carol: And I think that's why everything, especially ASCA, is so focused on those three areas of the academic, the college and career and the behavior. Because we can measure those. We can measure how many kids are applying to a college or how many kids have been suspended or how many kids have increased their rate of attendance or their academic performance to a certain level. So we can measure that. And you're right, principals definitely are looking at data. I mean, their whole job is about providing data to stakeholders to show the effectiveness of their teaching staff and how great that their school building is and how much their kids have learned and where they rank across the state. So those data points are really, that's their language. We have to be able to speak it.

Leslie: Something that we definitely have to learn because I don't know if they teach it anymore, but they definitely didn't teach it. We did, like, behavioral statistics if you were doing research projects, but it wasn't like, how do you measure your data in counseling sessions? Like, I don't. So that may have changed, but it wasn't. When I was in school, it didn't exist.

Carol: Yeah, it didn't exist when I went to school either. And I like to say that I think that they do that now, but I don't teach the class, so I don't know. Anyway, is there any other advice or any fun things that you want to share with our listeners about advisory or sel or any of that?

Leslie: I mean, here's one tip I would definitely say. Some people say you can over plan. I disagree. I feel like, with, with counselors, because there's so many emergencies that always arise. I feel like the more prepared you are, the easier it is. So if you have to run from something you just took care of to a group that you're facilitating and it's already laid out and done, it makes it easier. Like, you don't have to think about it and rush last minute and get there late. Like, all those things are done. I feel like lamination is, like, my favorite thing. If you can laminate something, you're going to keep reusing in groups year after year. Do it. It's ready to go. And then, like, have all your students, at the end of your sessions, put everything back in, the materials in the places that you store it. This way, it's easy to pull out. You have it ready to go, and you do it for your next lesson. And you don't have to stop and keep recopying and cutting and pasting whatever you're doing. I just. That's, like, my. My biggest thing to help for, like, organization, being ready.

Carol: I am the same way with lamination. In fact, now my co counselor, because I share a room, she's into laminating everything, too, because that's all I do. I'm like, okay, we got to laminate this. We got to laminate this. And it's so bad, like, my lamination habit, that I not only have my own personal laminator at school, I have one at home, too. And, yeah, I buy, like, lamination sheets, but in, like, the bulk count of 500. And I'll go through several of those packages a year. It's pretty bad.

Leslie: Have you been in a school that has the poster size laminator? Because that is the most exciting one.

Carol: Yes, we have one in our building. I don't really like to use it as much because, like, because the laminations on a roll and the pages will flip up. I guess I could run it through my personal laminator at the end to, like, flatten it, but I like my stuff all nice and crisp and flat and things like that. But, yeah, everything is laminated.

Leslie: And everyone listening is like, you guys have a problem with your lamination?

Carol: But, yes, people that are brand new buy a laminator, invest in the laminating sheets, and it will save you time in the long run. You might hate it at first, but I'm telling you, it is a lifesaver.

Leslie: I absolutely agreed.

Carol: I'll drop a link to a laminator in the show notes. So. Yeah, and I definitely agree with the over planning, too, because it's just like, I wouldn't want my kid to go into math class without having their teacher prepared, like, what lesson they're going to be teaching them. I definitely wouldn't want my kid to go into a counselor's office and then having that counselor not prepared with something for them when they know that they're attacking a specific issue. Like, you have to be ready. You have to be ready to discuss it, to talk about it, to give them the skills that they need. It's not just a wing it type of thing, but also.

Leslie: So if you're new, though, don't get nervous because it sounds like we're talking about a lot of stuff. It is stuff that you learn over time and you just get better at. So you learn. And I think that you end up having these little speeches in your head after a while because you've had so many students with the same stuff that comes over and over. So if you have great materials and, you know, works with your students, keep using it, because it really makes a difference in. In what you're doing in your groups.

Carol: Exactly. And you don't have to have a ton, I think. Just use what you have.

Leslie: Yeah. Which I also think makes us hoarders because we end up saving everything we have from lack of funding and making sure that we have these tools for our students.

Carol: Yeah, but I can tell you the things that I tend to use over and over. Those are definitely all laminated and they're at the front of the file cabinet, and I know exactly where to pull them from. So, yeah, you'll get it. They'll get it. Anyway, this was great. We. I can't wait for people to listen to your session. I always love listening to your sessions and hearing about advisory and things like that. But, yeah, I'm so excited for your session. I can't wait. And, people, I hope that you come to our summer, summer counselor conference so that you can hear Leslie as well as the other 40 people that we have presenting. There's just so much information that's being shared. It's. It's going to be good. You're going to walk away ready to face the new year and with a ton of tips and tricks up your sleeve, ready to use. So, Leslie, before you go, do you want to share with people how they can reach out to you and get in contact with you?

Leslie: Well, I can definitely share the links to how they can reach me. So I have Instagram, email, all the fun things, a Facebook, a Facebook group on Sel and advisory and a Facebook page as well. So however they feel like is the best media. I feel like there's so much out there, and everybody has, like, their own thing, except you're old if you use.

Carol: Facebook, so I am old, and I do use Facebook.

Leslie: Well, that's what I'm told. But it has very good resources for counselors, and it's a great way to connect. So there's definitely a lot of platforms that you can connect and ask me any questions, and I'm happy to help however I can. If you're looking to start an advisory program and kind of lead you in the direction that you need.

Carol: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And counselor friends, thanks for listening. And until next week, have a great week.

Leslie: Thank you, Carol, for having me on. I appreciate it.

Carol: Thanks for listening to today's episode of Counselor chat. All of the links I talked about can be found in the show notes and@counselingessentials.org podcast. Be sure to hit, follow or subscribe.

Carol: On your favorite podcast player.

Carol: And if you would be so kind to leave a review, I'd really appreciate it. Want to connect? Send me a DM on Facebook or instagramounselingessentials. Until next time.

Carol: Can't wait till we chat. Bye for now.

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