“Empathy can be a skillset, too. Learning how to just be able to sit with somebody, learning how to ask, what do you need right now? Do you need me to fix it? Do you need advice? Do you need me to just listen?"

Welcome to WomenShare: a marketing guide for women in financial services. On today’s episode, Joanna Ehresman and Leah Alter are joined by executive and well-being coach, Holly O’Hanlon to get to the heart of financial services (literally).

Holly helps business leaders thrive by focusing on self awareness, well-being, and emotional literacy. In our conversation, we explore the intricate layers of emotional intelligence, breaking down concepts like empathy and vulnerability, and how these can be channeled in the workplace to foster deep connections and enhance well-being. Holly will guide us through understanding the spectrum of emotions beyond the basic "mad, glad, sad," and why naming and feeling these emotions is critical for high EQ.

Holly will share her insights on how to transform a client’s journey from transactional to relational dynamics, discussing how financial advisors and leaders can anchor themselves as the support clients and team members need during life's pivotal moments.

Key Takeaways:

1. Emotional intelligence isn't just buzzworthy – it's the foundation for deeper connections. Honing our capacity to feel beyond 'mad, glad, sad' is crucial. Let's learn the full spectrum of emotions for richer interactions.

2. Empathy is a superpower in leadership. To truly lead, we must be willing to sit with others in their emotions without judgment or an agenda to fix. It’s not about solutions; it’s about presence.

3. Vulnerability is about risk, exposure, and stepping into uncertainty. In finances or leadership, it breeds trust and authenticity. Dare to ask the deeper questions. It's transformational.

4. Stories we tell ourselves can shape our reactions. Understanding our emotions keeps us from reactive states and allows for meaningful conversations. Pause and reflect before you project.

5. Best career advice: Remember the kaleidoscope. Like its endless patterns, every challenge has multiple perspectives. Open up to different angles and you'll find innovative solutions every time

Empathy can be a skillset too, of learning how to just

be able to sit with somebody, learning how to ask,

what do you need right now? You know, can we sit with someone without

judging or making assumptions up about how they should be

feeling or why they're feeling the way they're feeling?

Hi there. Thanks for joining us. I'm Joanna Ehresman. And

I'm Leah Alter. And this is WomenShare, a marketing guide

for women in financial services. And today we're excited

to discuss how we lead in this industry and specifically focused

on emotional intelligence. Whether you're a financial adviser

or on a corporate team, expectations have evolved and studies have

shown that bringing authenticity and connection to our careers

has a huge impact, not only on our company cultures, but on our

well-being. And today, I'm thrilled that Holly O'Hanlon, an executive

and well-being coach from Entrust Wellness, is joining us.

I can speak from experience that the leadership coaching that Holly leads

with her partners on developing brave leaders and courageous cultures

has been game changing for how I show up at work, and I have seen

the impact, with others in the coaching cohorts as well. And on a personal

note, Holly is a very dear friend. So we've

shared a lot of great experiences together, and I can attest to

who you will hear and see today on the podcast is very much who she

is all around. So, Holly, thank you so much for being here, and

welcome to Women's Share. Thank you so much for that intro,

Joanna, and nice to meet you, Leah. It's so nice to be here. Thank you

for having me on. We are. Making me blush and cry a little bit.

Oh, yes. Here's we did it. Vulnerability. Vulnerability.

We're just so excited that you're here. I went Joanna and

said that you were interested in coming on. I got so excited because this is

definitely a topic that I am personally passionate about too. And

so just really thrilled that you're here. We've had a

lot of guests on that have talked about emotional

intelligence and how important that work is, that

financial advisors do with their clients. So we're

really excited to hear about what you have to say about emotional

intelligence. It's just just such a buzzword these days. And

can you help us kinda set the table and provide some context,

on what those skills are and how they're at play with

someone who is said to have a high EQ? You know, we

hear terms like empathy, vulnerability.

What are, you know, your definitions of

that in terms of how we show up in this industry?

You know, I think about it emotional intelligence overall and those that

we that we see or define as having high emotional intelligence,

it's really the ability to name

and understand the feeling of a variety of

emotions. You know, a lot of times I remember hearing, I think it was from

Brene Brown. She did a study of like 7,000 people and asked

them to name the emotions that they could actually feel, not just

name because we can a lot of people can do that, but actually feel.

And do you wanna, does one of do you both wanna guess what the number

was? What was the average number? That they couldn't That they could

name, that they could feel. Yeah. 3. Not a

lot. K. We assume I was gonna say 30. I don't know.

Okay. I'm Okay. Joanna is an optimist. The training talk.

You're the problem. The optimist. Right? We got an optimist

and pragmatist. No. It was 3. Leah, you're right. It was

mad, glad, sad. Right? We know when we're angry. We know when we're

happy, and we know when we're sad. But there's all of those nuanced

emotions like frustration, grief, shame,

overwhelm, anxiety. You know, there's a whole host of other emotions

that actually do feel a little different in your body. They have different

thoughts associated to them. And so going back to your original question,

emotional intelligence is really getting, a

better grasp and having more literacy around how those emotions show up

in you and being able to name them. And then we think about you asked

about specifically, empathy and vulnerability, and we talk a lot about

this in our leadership development. And, we take

the phrase, the definition of vulnerability from Brene Brown's dare

to lead, which is emotional exposure,

risk, emotional exposure, and uncertainty with no

guarantee of, of, of the, the outcome. So you're putting, you're

putting your emotions out there. You don't know what the outcome is going to be.

It's going to feel risky, but that's kinda And so it feels emotional. It

feels personal. It feels uncomfortable. And then empathy, you know, I think of

empathy as one of the biggest or most important

skill sets of a leader of of really any of anyone that it's

like a superpower. And then that's just really the ability to be

with people in their emotions, with

their emotions. It doesn't mean taking them on, but being able to be

with someone, especially when it's hard and just say, I'm

here. You know, that sounds hard. Well, and it's interesting to

think about if you are more aware of your

emotions, if you can go from naming and identifying 3 to 30, or,

you know, that does that like, is there that correlation then with

empathizing and recognizing that in others? Right? So it's kind of this,

like, additive Yes. Scale. I think it's a

really good point. And so when you're thinking of, like, an adviser with a

client, for example, being able to notice the emotions that are

showing up on their face or in their body language and, you know, being able

to say, I noticed I noticed something here. Mhmm. Well and and

advisers are oftentimes working with people who are

moving through big life transitions. And

so it's never just about money. It's never just

about numbers on a page. It's also the big emotional

thing that's happening. I'm retiring. Someone has passed. You

know, all of these, like, big life things that happen.

And being able to hold space for someone

else's experience and being sort of that

rock. Right? That person that can hold the space

without, to your point, taking it on or, you know, getting emotionally

involved in that way. Mhmm. It it really is such a

powerful thing, especially in this industry. Yeah.

That's a really good point. And I think, Joanna, you and I were talking about

that a little bit is, you know, we think about wealth and money

and I mean, I guess I did of just it's just very transactional

and it's it's money. And then you just to your point, Leo,

when you sit down with your adviser, and we have an adviser, our our, me

and my partner, and it's all personal. And what built trust with

him was he asked about what we wanted to do with it. What do we

want out of life? What's important to us? What what are our emotions

around money? What's, you know, what drives our decision making? And then all of a

sudden you're a human and it's not just transactional, it's

more relational. Obviously, this show, we've had all women

guests thus far, and it's been a really interesting conversation. Again, this topic

around emotional intelligence and that being a

strength women tend tend to have more than men, has been

a consistent theme. Although, what's interesting is,

is it natural, or are we are we generally socialized,

right, to be more empathetic or display these skills? So we had a guest

on who's a researcher and looked at women in wealth management. And she's

she was like, I agree with the fact that women are most more tend to

be more emotionally intelligent than men generally, but where I

disagree is saying it comes to them naturally. I think it's we that's

how we are raised. And so bearing that in mind, like, these are

skills that can be taught and learned. Right? Like,

there are specific components to empathy and that sort of thing.

Can you talk a little bit more about how that can be taught

to anybody regardless of gender? Yeah. Absolutely.

Well, even just with emotional intelligence, you know, it's a practice of

we're not born just knowing all of our emotions and being able

to name them and, decide what we want to do with them. That's a practice

and it takes intention. So even understanding

how it takes, it takes a lot of slowing down. It takes a lot of

awareness, and it takes a lot of vulnerability because some emotions can

be hard and uncomfortable. And so I think to your point, even

just broadening our emotional and improving our

emotional intelligence is a practice that anybody can learn because we are

emotional beings that sometimes think. But we often think

we're cognitive and that we can just do nothing with we can just push our

emotions aside, but we all we all feel emotions. So the work and the practice

that everyone can do is to start being more aware of what

they are and what they're trying to tell us. And then on the empathy side,

Joanna, you mentioned, you know, I think one of we talk about empathy misses and

one of them, but the misses is trying to fix everything. And I, and, you

know, that happens all the time. As a mom, I

wanna fix my kids' problems. And I and now I

don't. Now now I've shifted into like, I don't have to do this.

I just have to be here with you and and figure out how I can

be best supportive. Sometimes it is fixing. Oftentimes, it's just listening.

So again, you know, empathy can be a skillset too, of

learning how to just be able to sit with somebody, learning

how to ask, what do you need right now? Do you

need me to fix? Do you need advice? Do you need me to just listen?

It also includes, non judgment.

You know, can we sit with someone without judging or

making assumptions up about how they should be feeling or why they're feeling the

way they're feeling and just truly be neutral and just

believe them that that's, this is what they, this is their experience right

now. So yes, I absolutely. I agree

with you that in our society and just social

conditioning, women often feel or may be

perceived as more emotionally intelligent than men. I think men

get sometimes in their upbringing, like that emotions

aren't allowed as much or, invited.

And so but I think it's this is a practice for everyone because we we

are emotional beings. We all have them. Absolutely.

I think probably the most valuable thing I ever

learned being in a corporate setting was

learning how to take a beat.

And that was transformative for me

personally, professionally, relationally,

like transformative because I was just a quick

to respond. Whatever I was feeling in that initial moment

had to be the right thing. And learning how to do

that was just really so

powerful. I'm so grateful for that. I can't imagine

going back. Also one thing you said

about empathy and fixing that just, like,

pinged for me because that fixing is

so common of a codependent when

you talk about that, I

feel like I'm doing something or that I'm contributing

by fixing, even when that is not necessarily what is

being asked of you by the person needing

support. Right. What are your and, this is totally not

you know, was that one of our questions? But what are your kind of thoughts

on redirecting that energy?

Yeah. Well, that's that's some inner work to just notice when you want

to fix. So if you know, you know, I think parenting is one easy

way to to to notice that often, or even with your

partner or someone close to you, you just want to fix their problems. It's the

intent is there. The intent is good. So first it's

noticing I have this desire to fix. And then

second, it's saying something different. And that can be

either asking a question like, do you need advice? Do

you want me to help solve this or do you just want somebody to listen?

That can be really powerful. Just asking, what do you what do you what do

you need from me right now? Mhmm. And that can be really helpful

when you are with somebody, especially when they're having a hard time and you're like,

I don't know what to do here. This feels really uncomfortable. One of the best

phrases I've heard, it's from my business partner, is that's sounds really

hard. Thank you for telling me, and I'm here for you.

Very simple. And I'm just thinking too stepping into the

shoes of a financial advisor or even somebody

in any sort of leadership role where

you're generally you're in that role because you have knowledge and

you have expertise. Right? Like, if reading those cues or being

mindful of, okay, it's they're not they're not telling me

this or they're not they're the person across from me is expressing this emotion

or going through this thing, and they're not coming to me for my

corporate leadership skills right now or my knowledge as a financial adviser. It's

a human to human connection. And I can imagine in

an average client review meeting, you know, an adviser is gonna have to really be

navigating what is the what's the vibe right now in terms of where we

are. Right? Is this a demonstrate expertise? And and I think

the the concept of slowing down and just

making space for reaction or thinking before

you provide an answer is Yeah. Is powerful, like you said,

Leah. Well and I'm curious. And,

from both of your perspectives, when, when you, you know, the

things that I just said around empathy are really helpful,

especially with personal relationships or even work relationships, but you have

a relationship. And so I'm curious from your

perspective when it's not as close of a relationship,

but it's an important one. What do you think would be helpful

for advisors to do when they do notice emotion or if they are

talking about grief or loss or, you know, some big transition that

is emotional? From what I've learned

through the leadership coaching, right, is is staying

curious, right, and asking the really simple questions of just

checking in, like, hey. It it

appears to me like this is, you know, getting into a hard space for you.

Am I reading that right? Right? Like, just Mhmm. Staying in that curiosity of

just checking, like, am I reading this? Is and that gives the client or someone

who maybe you're less familiar with to be like, no. No. No. No. Like, if

they don't wanna talk about it, they'll be like, no. Let's let's take the conversation

back in this direction. Right? So Yeah. I think that's part of it is

always making space for the other person to kinda take

it where they need to take it. Yeah. That curiosity angles. I just put you

on the spot. But, yeah, that Yeah. I know. Just asking the question

like, a connection point or a way to relate to an

experience too so that the client

isn't feeling like I'm the a lot of times when we're

in those heightened states, we feel like, oh, I'm the only one feeling this,

even though we maybe rationally don't know that. Sure. So I

think being able to bring it down to, like, a very

human level of, like, oh, I felt that too when this

happened. I under you know, being able to just again, back

to the empathy thing, being able to understand

how you feel in that moment so that the client doesn't

feel shame or awkward for having an

emotional reaction to something that's going on. Yeah.

Yeah. And I can imagine that just made me think, Leah, just if

a advisor works with so many clients, they can say, hey, you're not

alone. You're not the only one that has experienced this.

And that can be really powerful too, even if the advisor themselves haven't

experienced it, that I've heard this before. You're you're not

alone. Mhmm. Yeah. How could you see

vulnerability and this type

of courage and leadership really showing

up, and impacting the work

that we're doing. How could how do you kind of envision

or the work that you've done with clients with the leadership training you've

done where you've seen an evolution where it

went from maybe something transactional or,

not so cohesive to, more of a

human not to human. I think when we can just

open up about and be more transparent about

what's happening with, with each other. And so that might

be in a conversation just as you are all mentioning, a

conversation about a life transition or, you know, what's, what's going on

that's driving the conversation around finances. And I'm being really

specific here, but, that just having that human

element of asking what the emotion is underneath it of asking them

how they feel about that or what they want and just getting

more less about how much, because that will come later. But what do you

actually want? Why is it important? What's, what's motivating about

this? Those are all vulnerable questions, especially if it's not

a, you know, a trusted family member or a friend.

But they're really important to just build that relationship and build that

trust in order to move forward and make the right decisions. So

I think in all of whether it's work or personal life, when we can get

down underneath the surface and you don't have to go very far.

But going back to Joanna, just going back to the idea of curiosity

and under and wanting to understand a little bit more about why

this is important. What's happening here. What's important

about whatever you're talking about that allows people to be

as vulnerable as they want. And some people are not gonna wanna talk about it.

Right? And at the same time, it allows people to share just a little

bit more about them. So you you have a better understanding of of why people

are showing up the way they are. Because if we don't, we make

up stories as to why people are showing up the way they are. I just

facilitated on emotional intelligence and the stories we make up. And

so when we're not in connection and asking questions

of each other, we don't know. And so we, if

this person is like coming in hot to a meeting and

angry, or even like a client coming in hot and angry, you know,

the ability to take a deep breath and say, I noticed

your energy is a little different here today. Tell me more. Tell

me, you know, tell me what's, tell me what's going on. That can

really get to a lot of interesting answers and make people feel

heard. Yeah. Versus assuming, oh, they're coming in hot because they're

unhappy with our team and the service we're providing, and I got a quick, you

know, like, react. Yeah. It was funny. Actually, it was earlier

today. I saw a meme where it was like, why is it that when I

don't respond to an email, it's from someone, it's because I'm busy, but when

someone else doesn't respond, it's because they hate me. Right? Like, back to the

100%. Yeah. The stories. The stories. The stories.

We in one of our cohorts, so somebody said, we

have a there's an exercise where you write down your whole,

your whole first draft of the story that's going on in your head about some

situation. And at the end, the person was like, I just realized

I could be, like, the next Danielle Steele. I've got so much

drama in my story. It's very interesting,

and little of it is true. Right. Or I

haven't at least checked it out. Right? Maybe some stuff is true. But we

got we have to know our know the stories, and check

them out. See what's true and what's not true. Yeah. Well and one

other thing that I thought was interesting or what I I've learned is

what vulnerability isn't. Right? Like, it's not necessarily

overdisclosing or not respecting the boundaries. Like, I

in a corporate role, I can reflect on times where, you

know, I was wanting to keep the team up to speed on what's

going on, but there's a line, right, of what you can and cannot share about

organizational changes or whatever it is. And so I think it's also

vulnerability is not like, hey. I'm gonna let you in on this

information I shouldn't be sharing or overshare about myself because look

at me being vulnerable. Right? There's so there's boundaries there. Absolutely.

Yeah. Emotional dumping in the office,

is definitely a thing. And it's an energy

sucker for everyone around you.

Whether it being on the receiving end of it, it's it's

it's just as diff like, just as difficult, if not more

difficult than the person that's, like, trying to move through it,

and probably unaware that they're dumping. Right.

Right. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a practice. You know, we

this is gonna be, you know, 30 minutes on emotional intelligence and

vulnerability, and this is a journey. And we are all gonna get it

right sometimes, and we're all gonna overshare and, you know, get

it and get empathy wrong. And so it's just more about

just being more aware and and trying to

to tend to it in a healthy way more often than not, knowing

that we don't always get it right. Yeah. We're not gonna be perfect

every time. Yeah. So interestingly, the 3 of us have

some career history in common. So, Holly, prior to

becoming a coach, you were in a corporate marketing role

for more than a decade. Right? With Sleep Number? Yeah. Yeah.

So you've been you've been out of that world for a while, but we'd just

be curious to hear since Leah and I are more recent in moving from a

corporate role to, like, independent life. I would love to

hear more about, like, what what brought you to that place and, you know, like,

what insight do you have now? Like, what would you wanna tell the Holly of

10 years ago now that you're this far on the other side? Wait a

second. That was not on the the list of questions to ponder.

I'm sorry. That's okay.

So, you know, briefly the I yeah. I was in retail marketing for a long

time. Enjoyed it. Loved, by the end of my career, I was

I, led a team and I really enjoyed leading them. Ultimately, I

kind of I just fell out of love with the work itself. It wasn't

fulfilling for me anymore, and it was really my

girls were very young at the time, so I was just really stressed out, burned

out, and overwhelmed. And so when that happens, you start thinking there's

gotta be something different. And so over a couple of years, coaching just kind of

came into my environment after a lot of

discussion and conversation with various people. And I thought the 2

things that I knew I wanted was more meaningful conversations. I

really liked the conversations with my team. I wanted to help them grow. I

wanted to I was curious about what they wanted to do, and I thought

I could do more of this, but I wanna be on my own. And I

also just needed more flexibility. And so ultimately

coaching came in and I was also curious at the time because I was so

burned out and overwhelmed around well-being in the workplace and

what that truly, truly look would look like and how it could really

work. You know, pick ping pong tables and treadmills are

not the answer to people feeling really well and

taken care of at work. Free pizza is best Free pizza then. I'm

shocked. I'm shocked. I know. I know.

Added, yeah, added events after work. Maybe for some,

but yeah. So I was interested in that too. So I ultimately

left the corporate world, went back to school and,

board certified health and wellness coach and executive coach trying to bring leadership and

well-being together. So yeah. And at the 10 what would I tell

myself? You know,

I'd probably it's it's worked out okay, but I would probably

tell myself to have a more of a plan. I

kinda just winged it. I it's like, I know what I wanna do, but I'm

not quite sure of the how. And I probably could have been a little more

you know, thankfully, I have a very supportive husband who was

like, okay. I'm gonna I got you. And and,

I feel very, very privileged that that I was in a position to be able

to do that. Mhmm. Not not it's yeah. And also it just, like

have to go for it. You do. Right? You do. And I will say to

connect it back to to all of your work, our financial

adviser was a big piece of that, of, like, can I make this can I

make this change? Because it is gonna impact how

I save, what I make, what I, you know, all of that. And so,

so we had those discussions and they're hard because they're

vulnerable. And I, I remember just sitting with him and he

was very optimistic, but he was also very realistic of this is what it's gonna

look like. And that was really helpful. Yeah. The power of financial

planning. We talk about it a lot on the show. We talk about it in

this industry a lot. It's not just a buzzword. It

really can set you on a course to,

yeah, fulfill those desires and those dreams that

you may think are unattainable when they

actually if we switch this and we do this and there's this and this,

actually become very realistic. Right.

Alright. So on the same line about your, you

know, what you would tell yourself, we ask every guest,

what is the best career advice you've ever received?

Yeah. This is an interesting I was thinking, this goes way back to my

first manager, and she left the company. I

was still there and she gave me we had a good relationship and she gave

me a like a mini kaleidoscope. And in

the card that she wrote, which was a lovely card and gave me a lot

of confidence, which was nice. But she also said, just remember with any challenge, there's

multiple there's endless ways to think about it. And so I I mean, I still

have the Kaleidoscope, and I just think about that all the time of there's just

always new ways to think about a challenge or a situation.

Because often we we think about, like, 2. It's like our emotions. There's not

just 3. There are so many, and we and we just have to give

ourselves space and time to to consider them and to think about them. I love

that. Yeah. Because Right. You know? And, again, it goes back to

just being aware, pausing, reflecting. Right? Like,

those are skills. I I admittedly am

still needing to practice on a regular basis. Right? But it's

it can be so easy to just get caught up in reacting and

Mhmm. And getting dead set. It ties back to telling yourself stories

too. Well, there's only one solution for this, and it's so difficult,

and da da da da da. You know? So I like that. Multiple

perspectives. Okay. So where if people

are curious if they found this conversation interesting, which I'm Yes. I guarantee

they did. How can people find out more about you, connect with you? What's

the best way to Sure. So I am on LinkedIn,

Holly O'Hanlon. I am on Instagram. I am coach Holly

is my handle. And then, just my my

my website is, don't worry. I was in marketing

for years. It's called a website, and it's,

interest wellness.com. Great. And we'll make sure all of those are linked

in the show notes as well. So everybody follow Holly. She's full of great

content. So Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. This has been such a

fantastic conversation and needed conversation. Thank

you so much for being here, sharing everything that you have with

us. We being

here.

Thank you both for being here. Thank you both for inviting me. This was

this was just a joy. I could talk about this stuff all the time, so

I appreciate the opportunity. Oh, absolutely. Well,

that is our show for today. If ours is a mission that you want to

share in, subscribe to WomenShare on your favorite podcast

platform. And with that, I'm Joanna Ehresman. And I'm

Leah Alter. And we'll catch you on the next episode of Women's

Share.