Frank Hart has a wide range of experiences. When the opportunity arose to start a new worshiping community specifically for un-churched people, Frank was there to lead what is known as "NewChurch" newchurch.love. Described as helping people find "meaning, joy and hope," in a setting "where the music rocks," NewChurch is touching lives with the message of Jesus.  Pastor Frank ministers in Katy, TX, a booming suburb west of Houston. Rev. John Cain hosts.

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

Welcome to engaging truth, the manifestation of God's word and the lives of people around us. Join us each week. As we explore the impact of his message of spiritual renewal from the lesson of forgiveness forged in the crucible of divorce, to the message of salvation learned to by an executioner from a condemned killer to the gift of freedom found in the rescue of victims of human trafficking. This is God's truth in action.

Welcome to another edition of engaging truth. I'm your host pastor John Kane broadcasting from the oldest town in Texas. NADOs with us on the air today. We've got pastor Frank Hart out of, uh, Katie, Texas west of Houston. Welcome to the program,

Frank. Well, thanks John. Thanks for having me on your show. So Katie

Is one of those, uh, booming areas on the outskirts of Houston. How did you pick Katie as a, uh, as a location? Katie

The, your church experience started at another congregation. So something, uh, must have worked on you to start a new location.

But God had plans for you. And, uh, so you, you stayed with the theme of new church or how, how did you, how did you pick this, uh, new church as your, um, name for the congregation? We

Tried a lot of different names. We even had one night when we got together, we were meeting before we had a name. Uh, one night when we got together, we kind of threw a bunch of names up on a whiteboard and they were all the names that you would expect Christians to come up with. But when it came right down to it, we had been calling it the new church. What about the new church? When we start this new church, what do you think about this for the new church? I'm like, you know what, let's just get rid of the gap in new church and just call it new church. The reason that we, that we finally decided to go ahead with this plant though. So I'd gotten together with all of those people at my house and we kind of talked about it and we prayed about it.

And like I said, my wife wasn't into the idea. I went to bed that night and I just, I prayed. I said, you know, Lord, I don't know if you want me to do this or not. So I'm gonna need you make this clear to me. And I, you know, God doesn't promise to speak to us in visions and dreams. He doesn't promise to do that. We know that, but sometimes he does. And that night I did have a very particular dream. I dreamed that there was this new church. I recognized some of the people in the congregation, we were in a specific place. I saw how the lights in the stage and the chairs were all set up in this place called the lab that I had been to one time. So I woke up and I thought, well, you know, Lord, that would work.

So here's what we'll do. Here's what I promise. This is as far as I'm gonna go with this, I'll contact the owner or the lab. And if they agree, if they agree to meet with me and if they go for this crazy idea, then we'll do it. And if not, I'm gonna look for my next ministry opportunity, but to make a long story short, two days later, I was walking out of the owner of the lab's office with keys and alarm codes. And we met there for free for the next couple of years, starting a week later. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. So that's definitely a God

Thing I would think so.

Yeah. So you're not, um, uh, in terms of chronologic, uh, dates, you're not really a new church anymore. You've been meet for, uh, for five or six years, but the message is new and fresh. So what do you tell people about what the difference is about your congregation, where you serve?

Yeah. People do tease me about the name because in February, uh, new church will be six years old. So they do tease me about the name, but the name was never that we were the newest church. That's not what we were going for. The idea is that every generation needs to disciple the next generation and make a new church that, that that's the idea of the name. So reaching people that don't know the gospel that don't know Jesus, that don't know about the love and grace of God, that's the idea of new church.

So from your own personal history, what is it that, uh, has equipped you to, to be a church planner and to be effective at reaching out to the people of Katie?

Yeah. Other than, you know, I'm so handsome. Um, well there is that. Yeah, no, that's not it, you know, I, I, I sort of have an, I had an internal call to, to ministry when I was 14, which is the same year that I came to faith in Jesus. I wasn't raised in the church and I kind of spent all my time thinking about how I could have conversations with my friends and my family, how to open up conversations and be persuasive with the gospel. So that's pretty much all I thought about as a 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 year old, I went to Bible college right out of high school. Uh, I was in the assemblies of God at the time and going to Bible college in the assemblies of God, I realized pretty much right away that I was not going to be Anem of God past.

I just didn't jive with the theology. Uh, I had read through the Bible, I had a rudimentary understanding of how I thought things fit together and that wasn't the way it fit together to me. So I finished that education, but I got my degree, but I didn't become pastor in the assemblies of God. I started having success in music. So I spent the next 25 years or so doing music. I had a record deal with Warner brothers record toured all over the world with a band called atomic opera, a hard rock band. I was doing the same kind of thing. I was just doing kni in the context of touring with hard rock bands, Ronnie James Dio, opening four Metallica and stone, temple pilots and Kings X and playing in these places that, uh, you know, I would just have these conversations with people. I, all of my songs were thinly disguised, apologetics dealing with, and it all just kinda worked. Anyway. I, I got hired at that church in Katy Crosspoint because of my musical abilities. And I was also the, I became the creative director. I, I, I know my way around recording studio and video cameras and editing and graphics. And it all kind of comes together in pastoral work.

So if the idea Frank is to reach the unchurched people, what works?

Oh, well, absolutely nothing. absolutely nothing. Uh, when it comes to, how do you get people to come to visit your church? Yeah. There's, there's absolutely nothing you can do in this, in this post. COVID like post-Christian world that we live in now. It was hard enough to get people to want to agree on any level to come visit your church before the plague. It was. Yeah. But now the, the whole idea of getting people to walk into a room full of strangers breathe the same air for an hour and 15 minutes. Okay. Yeah. Good luck with that. And then add to that, the fact that our, our culture is so politically divided and divisive and angry, and, uh, people are just more and more confused about what the church is, who Jesus is, what the gospel means. It it's, it's pretty rare to find some that actually understands those things on any level anymore.

So now you walk up to them and you invite them just to come visit your church. That's that might've worked back in the day. And, and I had a lot of success with that at Crosspoint that I don't believe that is the way forward. So I, another part of new church is trying to do this from a, in a, in a different way. So first of all, the idea of new church, we, we aren't doing this yet, but the idea of new church was to be a place that was open seven days a week, not just on Sunday morning, to be a place where people would gather to eat and draw rank together, you know, like a, like a pub or a restaurant or a cafe, something like that where people would actually want a, a nice place, a place where people would actually want to go and hang out with their friends and their family and where relationships could be fostered between like the people of new church that would also hang out out there.

And the people that just showed up for whatever food and drinks we happen to offer, that's been the idea. We haven't been able to move into that type of ministry yet. Although we do very often stay after worship and eat together. We used to meet on Saturday nights and we would always eat together and drink together. It was a, B Y O B situation. And that that's actually how we got to know each other and became a, a family together. I don't know. I look at Jesus and how he just went from house to house, party to party. They called him a, a, a glutton and a wine Bible. And maybe those of us who are doing ministry, maybe if we're not being accused of being gluttons and drunks, maybe we're not doing it right. Maybe so

Well, he certainly met people where they're at. And, um, you know, in our day we, we have these barriers to, uh, interpersonal contact. And like you're saying with COVID and fears and political things, and yet, what is it about the message that you share that transcends those barriers?

Yeah. So I think, I think you hit the nail right on the head. The, the thing that, that we're gonna have to do is we can't, we can't invite people to come to us so much anymore. Uh, Jesus says that I will make you fishers of men. Okay. So I don't know a lot about fishing, but I know a little bit about fishing. So one of the first lessons of fishing is you have to go to where the fish are. I would think that was important. Yep. So we gotta go to where the people we wanna reach. We gotta go to where they are. A second one is what are you bait in your hook with? First of all, gotta have a hook. Now I'm a musician. So hook has a connotation to me, but you gotta have a hook. And then you gotta bait that hook with something that they want, or at least they think they want, are we doing any of those three things, typically as the church, are we going to where the fish are? Do we have a hook and do bait the hook with something that they want? I don't, I don't think we do. I don't think those are three basic ingredients of fishing that we are getting right. Currently.

Well, I think you've just identified some of the things that are the most difficult about church planting or the most difficult about reaching people in the current culture. And, and once you identify those things that probably allows you to craft then your hook or craft your approach.

So is there a way to, uh, to reach out beyond Katie using electronic means? Is there a way to reach groups of people, um, significantly without having them in the same physical worship space?

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I employ all of the things I'm on all the social media things. I'm always trying to figure out a way to use whatever for the gospel. Uh, I U I turn all of my sermons and everything that we do into some kind of podcast or blog or video blog. I mean, I I'm, I'm constantly looking for a way to get it out there. We got the Google grant thing going and what I mostly use that for is just sharing the God with people in other countries. It doesn't really work all that great for Katy, Texas, but it is a great way to blast all of my teaching, all of it to people in places that wouldn't find it. Otherwise it, it, it, that's pretty fantastic.

Let's uh, let's take a little bit different tack here for a second. How do people come to faith?

How do people come to faith? Faith comes by hearing the word of Christ, so they have to hear the word and then the word becomes alive in those people. And then that, uh, grows up and works out into faithfulness.

Yeah. Good, good answer. Yeah, God, uh, the holy spirit of God, uh, works on people's hearts and minds. So, um, oh yeah. As frustrating as it is when we see people go out the door for a while, pray that the, the spirit will turn those feet around or, um, instill the faith in them and grow the faith in them. Yeah. Uh, so we've, uh, continu

Comes to when it comes to church planning, I will say that the most difficult, heartbreaking aspect of doing this and I wasn't prepared for this at all is when people leave. Yeah. It's just nothing prepares you for that. I mean, you give them your heart, you give them your life, you pour everything you have into them. You have all these hopes for them. And then one day they're just gone. Maybe they'll tell you why they leave. Maybe they won't. And man, I wasn't ready for that. I just tell you right now. I mean, I'm, I'm getting a little bit thicker skin now, but when that first started happening, Ooh.

Hmm. Well, we take it personally. Don't we?

It is personal. Yeah. Yeah.

But, uh, did that kind of thing ever happen to Jesus?

Yeah. so there's your comfort, right? Yeah. Right. The greatest pastor, the greatest teacher, the most holy of human beings. If, if he had the kind of troubles that he had, then what can I expect from

Me? That's right. That's right. so we, we, uh, we don't, uh, take it on our shoulders alone.

Yeah.

So what would you say to someone who is king about, uh, church planning?

I would say do it. It's gonna be almost impossible. Do it anyway. I mean, have a vision, pray to God that he fills you with his spirit and with a vision and with the gospel and all the grace in the world, cuz you're gonna need it. get a, a small dedicated group of, of close knit people that you can count on. That will be your friends and your partners in ministry who love the vision and listen to them, let them pour into the vision too. And then here's the most important thing. This is what I would tell them, teach 'em to fish, teach 'em to fish. That is honestly that's what discipleship is. Teach 'em to fish.

So you mentioned the vision. Explain that to us a little bit, sharing the vision.

You, right? Without God's without vision. God's people perish, I think is the, uh, the quote. So, um, when you share the good news of the gospel and you give people what God's plan is, what do you

Tell them? So over the last couple of years, we have been going through the Bible and some weeks I'll just do a book of the Bible a week, and then sometimes we'll slow down and we'll do like verse by verse through an entire book. And the whole point this every week is to show them how it points to Jesus and the gospel. You're gonna find things in there that challenge you. You're gonna find the law. You're gonna find condemnation. Yeah. All of that's gonna happen. The Spirit's gonna work that way too, but also don't stop until you find Jesus. Don't stop until, so you hear his voice, tell you the promises of the gospel and how he's already done it for you. He's already done it. Your sins are forgiven because of Jesus. So let's move forward with that knowledge.

Yes, knowing that, uh, Christ, uh, victory over death in the grave was done for us as, as God and human flesh to, uh, confer God's blessings upon us is a wonderful message. Especially now, as, uh, as today, as we're recording this, we're approaching, uh, Christmas and to recognize the magnitude of God's love and the magnitude of his gift, that is ours. Um, what would you say to someone who asks, what difference does it make? If I'm a Christian or not

See, that's the question that a person who doesn't actually know who Jesus is and what the gospel means would ask. And that is the question that this entire post-Christian culture is asking, like, what does it matter there? Why do I need to go to church and find out how to be a good person? I'm already a good person. Once you realize that Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn the world, he came into the world that was already condemned to save it. So he didn't have to condemn the world. If you ask people that question, if you were to say, Jesus said he came into the world, not to condemn it, but to save it. What does he mean by that? They won't know. They won't understand because the answer is, the world was already condemned. The house was on fire. He came in to rescue you.

So when we compare ourselves to AOL Hitler, we look pretty good. But when we compare ourselves to God, we find out that we come up short and, uh, how wonderful it is, the that he makes up the difference, uh, between what we're capable of and, and how far we've fallen. He makes up the whole difference through Jesus Christ. We'll come back to our guest, Frank art, just a minute. I wanted to point our listeners to our, uh, radio station website, Elm houston.org. You can find ways to port what you're listening to. You can donate online, or you can mail us a check at Elm PO box 5, 6, 8, Cypress, Texas. And the zip is 7 7, 4 10. And now back to our, yes, Frank, would you, uh, share with us a little bit how our listeners could in or support what you're doing?

Absolutely. We would love to see you hear from you. Our website is new church.love. So that's our, that's our website URL. Um, you can also reach me personally@frankfrankhart.com, you know, looking

Forward to see what God does through you about how many people are in this. Uh, Katy's a new car, Katy area. Is it a couple hundred thousand?

Oh, Katie. Yeah. You know, the greater Katy area is probably 400,000 people. Yeah.

So there's lots, lots, and lots of folks there and lots and lots of neighborhoods and plenty of people there who, uh, need to hear the good news, the message of Christ who has come to save us from our sins and open the very doors of heaven to us and for us. Yes. So again, uh, joining us on the air has been, uh, Frank Hart and Frank God's blessings on what you're doing at Katie and your outreach around the world. Join us again real soon for another addition of engaging truth. Goodbye.

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time, to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office box 5 68, Cypress, Texas 77, 400 0, or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical life ministries. Thank you.