Noel Foy, a distinguished author of children's literature, elucidates the profound significance of her vocation as a children's book author, particularly emphasizing her works, "ABC Worry Free" and "Are You a Bird Like Me?"

She articulates the honor and responsibility inherent in the role, recognizing the potential to impact not only children's lives but also the adults who guide them. Noel's narratives are meticulously crafted to address and alleviate children's anxieties, equipping them with essential tools to navigate their emotional landscapes.

Through her personal experiences and professional expertise, she seeks to foster resilience and a growth mindset in young readers, illustrating the transformative power of literature. As we delve into her insights and the creative journey behind her books, listeners will gain a deeper appreciation for the intersection of storytelling and emotional well-being in the realm of children's literature.

The conversation delves into the mechanics of Noel's writing process, revealing her strategic approach to creating engaging content that is both educational and entertaining.

Noel discusses her method of integrating personal anecdotes and relatable characters within her narratives, such as Max, a character who embodies the struggles of anxiety that many children face today.

Through character development, Foy illustrates how children can learn valuable skills by seeing their peers overcoming similar challenges. Her books not only serve as a means of storytelling but as vital educational resources that equip children with practical strategies to manage their emotions.

The discussion further highlights the importance of feedback from educators and parents in shaping the content of her books, ensuring that they meet the needs of the young audience they are intended for.

Takeaways:

1. The essence of being a children's book author lies in the ability to profoundly impact the lives of children and their families.
2. Noel emphasizes the importance of addressing anxiety early in childhood through engaging narratives and practical strategies.
3. Her books, such as 'ABC Worry Free', aim to provide children with tools to manage their emotions and develop resilience.
4. The conversation highlights the necessity for authors to actively promote their work, as success largely depends on personal marketing efforts beyond publication.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. neuronoel.com
2. amazon.com (Book)
3. ingramsparks.com
4. youthissues.com

Hi, I'm Noelle Foy and I'm the author of ABC Worry, Are youe a Bird Like Me?

And 15 Minute Focus Executive Function.

Thanks Noel, for appearing on the Adventures of the Heart of Children's Book Authors podcast.

Today we're going to focus on Noelle's children's books.

However, we do have some surprises for the listening audience as we get further into our conversation.

Noel, before we get into the details of your books, can you tell us what being a children's book author means to you?

Oh, I consider it an honor.

I consider it a blessing to think that you have the potential to impact kids lives and potentially even their parents or could be teachers.

Who knows who's reading the books, maybe even the grandparents.

And a lot of my books focus on skill building and helping kids face their fears and hopefully help them with their mindset and having a productive mindset so they can face challenges.

So to think that you could possibly empower kids and help them believe in themselves and potentially transform themselves and build better brains and better skills and mindsets, that just is incredibly gratifying for me.

Fantastic.

And just so the listening audience knows, we will be sharing links to Noelle's website.

Noel's got a great website.

It's an interesting website in that there's going to be some revealing of things for our listening audience.

Before we get on the book business side with your website, I want to talk to you about both your books, both your children's books.

Let's go to, to your first book, ABC Worry Free.

I know you expressed was an honor to write children's books, but I'm curious about your origin story.

What was the inspiration for your first children's book?

It's really a process of connecting the dots for me.

I was an anxious kid and back when I was growing up, my school didn't even have a counselor.

So when I was having a hard time just getting to school or once I got to school getting into the classroom, nobody really knew what to do with me.

So I was thrown into the girls room and told to just get myself together before you could come into the classroom.

And I was literally dragged up two flights of stairs by two nuns.

That's, that's what they did back in the day.

Nobody really knew and my parents didn't really know what to do with me.

There's that personal experience that I had.

As a kid that stayed with you all this time.

It did.

Yet I didn't really know what to do with it for many years and anxiety wasn't really talked about.

For many years.

So I didn't really know what to do with it, and I didn't know how to manage my anxiety.

It's like an internal energy, in a way.

Yes, you can be very much in your head.

Your head can be.

Can take up a lot.

The anxiety can take up a lot of space.

You can be really anticipating, like, something that you're fearful is going to happen in the future.

And you can be thinking about that.

Let's say, for example, if I was in school, I might be thinking about, oh, my gosh, I'm not prepared for this test, or I don't think this teacher likes me, or I don't know the answer.

I hope she doesn't call on me.

So I'm in my head with those thoughts instead of actually listening to the teacher.

Okay, you had this anxiety bottled up, and so tell us, how did you release it into a children's book years later?

Once I became a mom, I have four sons, it felt a lot of anxiety, I guess, and didn't really know how to manage it.

And I was starting to see a little bit of anxiety in my kids, which I would say is mainly because I was modeling anxiety.

And then I was noticing as I was out in classrooms.

So my background is in teaching.

I was a classroom teacher, a learning specialist for years, and now I am an anxiety and executive function specialist.

And I go out to a lot of schools and do observations of classrooms and I do teacher workshops.

So I was noticing more and more kids had their heads down on the desk or were acting out, freaking out, spacing out, more so than I'd ever seen before.

And I knew the data at the time was showing we had this huge spike in anxiety in children.

So I started connecting the dots, and I realized now we were talking about anxiety more, and I thought, okay, if I write a children's book, I can hopefully help kids deal with this at a younger age.

Because I've been dealing with this my whole life.

And I thought, okay, maybe write something for high school or for adults.

But I thought, let's get to the kids and develop some good habits and thinking patterns and skills at an earlier age that hopefully by the time life becomes more challenging, they have some tools in their toolkit.

I'm fortunate.

I've got five healthy, active grandchildren.

And the one thing I find that adults tend to do, I could probably be accused of this too, is you don't give kids enough credit for how intelligent they really are.

They know what's going on with themselves at a fairly young age.

Like you said, if it doesn't get introduced or talked about, then that's what I love about your book, is you open that door up and create that conversation like you're not assuming that they won't get it right.

And we want kids to talk about it, and we want parents to have some tools as well and not to feel any sense of shame about it and to feel, okay, we can problem solve this.

There's something we can do about this.

This is treatable, this is manageable.

So let's do some problem solving here.

And what happens a lot of times is when kids are anxious, we tend to the most common reactions I say are we tend to zoom in and try to help them avoid the anxiety.

Or sometimes we just dismiss it and be like, oh, you're fine, don't worry about it, don't worry about it.

And neither of those really help kids build skills.

I try to help parents with some language that can be helpful, some responses that can be helpful, and then help the kids in the process.

Good for you.

And that leads me to my next question, and I've taken a little different spin on this question.

Normally I ask children's book authors, what's their book business plan?

How are they building their business to get their book out into the world?

But I noticed in your case, and I loved it, because of course, I went to your website and I noticed that your books are a part of your overall business strategy.

Can you explain to us how you're using your books through your website?

One's geared more towards educators and parents and grandparents, and then the other two, of course, are geared towards children.

So explain to us your strategy behind all of that and how you're using your children's books.

I hope that to broaden children's book authors in the way they use their children's book, because I get a lot of teachers, a lot of early educators on this show, and a lot of them are starting to talk to me about working on lesson plans to support their books.

And I thought, wow, so you've taken it to me, you've taken it to the next level and you've built yourself a business.

So talk to us about all that.

I know that's a mouthful, but talk to us about that.

So I evolved from being a classroom teacher, a teacher of teachers.

So then I went out into schools and started doing workshops, and the books became part of my workshop.

So if I have a workshop on anxiety and helping teachers with how to manage anxious kids in their classroom, ABC Worry Free can be a Great teaching tool.

Are youe Bird Like Me?

Is not necessarily a teaching tool.

That is more of like a classroom read aloud that you could have a curriculum with.

You could have one for ABC Worry Free too.

And you could do all sorts of great writing assignments with it.

You can have incredible discussions.

ABC Worry Free.

When I do author visits, that's different from my workshops.

Of course the author visits.

I'm coming in and I'm reading to the kids and we're doing activities and I'm teaching them.

The ABC trick from ABC Worry Free books are part of my visit.

And for example, I might come in and talk to the whole school.

I might come in and talk to K through four grades and I might go in and they might combine a couple grades.

But I might go to individual classes and I actually teach a lesson in addition to reading the book.

So I love getting in with the kids.

That's one of my favorite things to do.

And then the workshops obviously more designed for the teachers.

And then I also do parent workshops as well.

The books are just great tools to have.

And for example, in the back of ABC Worry Free, there's some do's and don'ts for parents and grandparents.

Any adults in kids lives.

Because I feel that a lot of the information we get about anxiety is not actually accurate or helpful.

So I'm trying to give parents and the adults and kids lives some accurate, helpful information in very practical, simple ways.

I noticed you have one on one training.

Is that primarily geared at educators and adults or do you go the whole gambit from child to educator, parent?

Good question.

It goes the whole gamut.

I have worked with as young as five year olds and I'd say right now my oldest student is about 68 and I have everybody in between.

I work with elementary, middle, high school, junior high, college students, adults, and a lot of them deal with anxiety, but many also deal with executive function challenges.

And the reason I bring that into the conversation right now is anxious people can hijack their executive function.

So you can get very anxious and then you lose access to your ability to focus and pay attention.

Just like I was saying earlier when I was that kid in science class, I was so in my worries.

I wasn't really focused in paying attention to the teacher.

So I could look like I have ADHD because I'm not paying attention, but it's really my anxiety.

For me, there are kids with ADHD of course that are struggling with attention, but there is a connection of anxiety and executive function.

Yeah, trying to really empower the teachers.

The Parents, the students.

And I just feel like these are tools that, you know, from what I've been hearing, that parents and teachers are seeking, they're looking for support.

Unfortunately, the numbers of anxious kids have not gone down.

They're still pretty high.

I've talked to several children's book authors who have done author visits, and of course, there's been adults in the room.

What they've told me is a lot of times the adults will come up to them and they'll say, I want to thank you so much.

I. I love your book and I see myself in your book.

Talk to us about that.

Because are you getting people coming up to you who are just like, you went through their whole childhood, went through school, and then all of a sudden you took that bottled up anxiety or energy and you wrote your first book.

Have you had adults come up to you and say, wow, you got the essence of who I am?

I've had adults say to me, I'm using the strategy.

And some of them maybe, like me, hadn't really addressed their anxiety.

Especially if you're, say, I'm 66.

If you're of my generation, it wasn't really talked about so much.

So the older folks, I would say, tend to say that more frequently.

And yes, I've had kids say to me, as soon as I finish, they're like circling me like this little beehive of kids.

They want to tell me about things that they're worried about.

And I'm always fascinated how open they.

Are about honor, the mouths of babes.

Yes.

They're so honest.

Absolutely no, no daughter.

And with the most recent book on executive function, I have one, one student I work with who said to me, I feel like you were following me around for most of my life of seeing myself in this book.

And I didn't think there was hope for people like me.

Wow, good for you.

That obviously really tugs at your heart when you hear things like that.

Before we move on to some of the more structural stuff of your books, I'm curious, do you mind sharing what ABC stands for?

Oh, of course, Yes.

I was thinking of what would be simple and quick, something that would be easy to remember.

So I thought, okay, kids know their ABCs.

So the ABC came to mind.

And so the A stands for accept how you feel.

As I said earlier, Rick, a lot of times with anxiety, anxious kids are dismissed.

It's just, oh, you're fine, you're fine, don't worry about it.

And so it's actually no, actually notice and accept how you Feel.

So that's the A.

The B is to breathe slow and deep.

One way we can get our executive function back and also get our thinking brain back and feel more regulated in our body is to do slow, deep breathing.

Just pump the brakes.

So the breathing is B and then the C is change your thinking.

So for a kid like me, I often thought very anxious thoughts.

I'll never get this done.

I'll never get this.

Everyone's smarter than I am, or don't call on me.

I'm going to look like I didn't study or the teacher's going to get mad at me.

I had very catastrophic thoughts in my brain.

So learning how to reframe my thoughts so I could keep my thinking brain in charge instead of my emotional.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because whether you're a child or you're an adult, it can work for all of us.

Absolutely.

And you don't have to be full of anxiety to use your method.

That's what I love about it.

And that's why I asked you about adults coming up to you and saying, I can see myself in that and using your method even to this day.

Absolutely.

And it's simple.

And I think that sometimes there's a little misunderstanding that when we do a strategy that the anxiety is going to go a hundred percent away and that's not really the case.

What we're really trying to do is lower the anxiety and manage it so that you can keep moving forward, you can deal with the situation, and with more practice, it's going to get better and the anxiety will keep lowering.

Let's say, for example, I have a fear of speaking in public, which I used to.

The more I do it and the more I do my strategies, the lower my stress has become and the more.

Natural it becomes for you.

Yes.

So I still feel a little anxious, but it's not to the point where I want to avoid it or I feel like there's no way I can do this.

The way I talk to myself and the way I prepare and do that, the whole, like I said, breathing the acceptance and then reframe how I think about really is powerful.

Thank you for sharing all that.

I wanted to do this first because now I want to move on to the actual book side of the business.

For aspiring book authors, there's a formula and how you can actually bring your book to market.

I noticed a couple of things.

You do have, if I'm not mistaken, all of your book formats on Amazon.

Yes.

So you can get them on Amazon.

My first and third book are published through the national center for Youth Issues.

That's a publisher that focuses specifically on support for parents and teachers and counselors.

I noticed with your first book, ABC Worry Free, I was able to get the Kindle version, but I noticed with you are a bird like me, you don't have the Kindle version.

Is there a reason?

That is correct.

As I mentioned, our ABC worry free and 15 minute focus executive Function are both published through the national center for Youth Issues.

Are you a bird like me?

Is published book that I did with one of my sons, which was super fun.

Unfortunately, when we went to do the Kindle process, there was an issue with the pages lining up and it just wasn't making.

Formatting was not working.

We absolutely adored our illustrator.

We loved illustrations in the book and we just decided not to mess with the.

The structure of everything.

Unfortunately, we weren't able to get that version.

Okay.

Before we move on to the publishing side of it, I wanted to ask you one other question.

Are you using ingramsparks?

All of the books are available on ingramsparks.

Okay.

And the reason I ask that is I think most people who have listened to the show understand that Amazon takes care of Amazon.

And then when you're looking for how do I distribute to other online retailers like Barnes and Noble, Apple Books, and so on, ingramsparks is where generally most people go.

And that allows you a greater distribution reach.

Yes.

And from what I understand, that's where, like a lot of the bookseller, like the bookstores are going to Ingram to get the books.

Using Ingram as the wholesaler.

Yes.

Okay.

So yes, I do feel, like, important to get your book on Ingram.

Absolutely.

Terrific.

I was looking at it and I always talk about it can be traditionally published, where you get a publisher, they take all the rights, they do all the work, and at the end of the day, you might have some fun, but you're getting pennies on the dollar for your efforts.

And then you can go self publish, which is like a hybrid publishing.

And then the last one is where you can go independently publish, where you set up your own publishing company, you do all the work, and you control the whole process.

So I noticed you had Pear tree Publishing.

Yes.

So is that a hybrid or is that your own independent hybrid?

Oh, it's a hybrid.

Okay.

Yeah.

So when you got.

When you said you got your son involved, in what way was he involved in the second book?

Oh, he was incredibly helpful in the writing.

So I came up with the concept of that book.

And that book is another book about facing your fears.

But it's done in a very, let's say, implicit fun, very sweet way where ABC Worry free is a teaching tool.

Okay.

It's still a relatable book.

It's told in narrative form, but it's very explicit.

You have a three step, let's call it a trick because the main character, Max, calls it a trick.

We use that word because strategy doesn't sound as fun as a trick.

Right?

Yes, that was intentional.

But that book, just to clarify, is a teaching tool.

Are you a bird like me?

Is more about just this, really, I think a beautiful story about friendship and perseverance, facing fears and the beautiful things that can happen when we come together and work together.

Okay.

And that is not like a structured ABC Worry free strategy kind of approach to the story.

Love it that you've taken two different publishing approaches.

You can answer this question in two ways.

That's address it from both sides of the different publishing function.

So when it came to publishing your children's book or your books, what was your biggest challenge or frustration?

How you published the two books one way and the other book the other way.

So what was the biggest challenger Frustration?

Great question.

First, I do have to give my son kudos because he was super helpful in the writing of Are you a bird like me?

I came up with the concept and did a rough draft and then he is like a master editor and master reviser.

And we went back and forth.

Actually, it was during COVID we wrote that book.

We went back and forth on zoom calls.

And he was living in Canada at the time and did a lot of revising together.

And he has a really fond sense of humor and his sense of humor came through in that story.

So that was super fun.

I love that because I have five grandchildren.

And our book series is called the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.

And I co authored this with my oldest granddaughter and then we went on to call it the Adventures of Caboose.

What we did is I launched our second book, which is called Hijinks from the Big Head Folk Music Festival.

And you'll notice I co authored it with my oldest granddaughter and my middle granddaughter.

That is so special.

It is.

It's a lot of fun.

And with the five of them, we've gone on to write 38 different stories in the book series.

The cost of bringing them to market is expensive, so it'll be a slow rollout unless I hit the super max lottery or something.

I love it when I hear that you got to share with your Son.

But he was an adult at the time, correct?

Yes.

Oh, yes.

He's a dad himself.

There was some meaning in it as he co authored it with you.

Yes.

And he has a daughter and so he loves reading to her and she loves books.

I know there was some testing it out, I think, on her and just thinking about books that he loved to read with her and I thought about books.

I love that.

And now you got a girl.

Yes, we actually have three girls.

Different experience.

Absolutely.

Back to your question about the challenges.

So when I think about the challenges with the traditional publisher, they honestly, I had a great experience, if I'm being completely honest.

I don't know if you can relate to this.

When I sent out ABC Worry Free to various publishers, I got rejection letters.

And the first one that said yes was the national center for Youth Issues.

So of course I was thrilled and I thought that their terms were very fair, especially me being a first author.

And they were delightful to work with when it came to the editing.

Honestly, by the time I got it to them, it was in pretty good shape and the editing process went very quickly.

They gave me the choice of different illustrators, so I was involved with that.

I felt really happy that I got to choose from those choices.

They gave me that they didn't just say, here's who we're going with.

So we.

It was a real collaboration.

I, I the business standpoint, though, I'm curious because from a royalty aspect, you probably have this contract with them, but from a usage where you use them in the books and the content, does the content still belong to you or do you have to pay, do you have to pay a royalty when you do your workshops on any of that?

Okay.

No.

So you got to keep all the content belongs to you.

The content belongs to me.

And so when you sell the books, they, you get part of the royalty for those books.

If the book is sold through Amazon or the national center for Youth Issues or Walmart or Target, Barnes and Noble, any of those places, I get a royalty.

I can also order books through the national center for Youth Issues at a think I got this right.

I think it's the 60% discount of the retail price.

And then I can take the books, I can buy them at that discount, then I can bring them into my workshops and I can build that price.

I can charge, I can charge whatever I want.

I'm obviously not going to charge more than what they're retailing for.

And I usually, in a workshop, give them a break with the price.

Okay.

But I get I can make more money for my.

Just as far as how the percentages go if I just sell it myself.

Yeah.

So there's directly.

Yeah.

So if there's always a trade off you need.

I hate to say this but there is a part of the Amazon process that's helpful because if you have several reviews and it's picking up that the books are selling that can be used to your advantage.

You have to sell a lot of books for Amazon to really from my.

Experience, I talked to a guest on episode 48, Laurie Orolinsky and Lori had mentioned to me she actually works for Yorkshire Publishing and she's also a children's book author.

She has five or six children's books.

And I asked her when did she start noticing she was getting traction through Amazon and she said when she hit about the 55 star review mark that's when she noticed that to what you were mentioning Noel is that's when she noticed she was finally getting some traction from all that work to get to those 50 five star reviews.

They say to try to shoot for a hundred reviews and yeah the algorithm is set up to notice the more activity that you're getting there's kind of trade offs.

I don't make as much money obviously from the Amazon sales because to sell to Amazon they get em at a discount anyway.

So you're making your royalty off the discounted price, not the retail price.

Correct.

There's that piece obviously you can buy books off my website which I just would.

Those are the ones that I've ordered from the publisher at the discount and then I just sell on my own.

Right.

But now who's paying for the shipping?

I will add that on to the cost.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

And the reason I bring that up is so that everybody understands that there is a cost to ship.

And even though I think there's a special book pricing get through the US mail it's still.

I think it's around $5 a book.

Yes, you're correct.

It's about $5.

And I think if my math is correct when I ship books I think I can ship.

My books aren't super heavy.

Mine I have.

Are you A bird like me is in paperback and hardcover but typically the paperback sells more frequently.

So my books are not super heavy.

I think I can mail three books for $5.

Yeah but one book would be $5 and then once I get up to like around five books or more it goes up to $7 or something like that.

To your point Noel and I'm finding this all the time, and I mention this to people to understand that your author visits can be very fruitful for you as an author, if you sell your books.

Because to Noelle's point, you're getting either a discount, like you are through your publisher, you're getting an author's copy price, or if you go through Amazon, if you actually print and publish through Amazon, they give you a very good price, an author's copy price.

If you do a live event, you can make a pretty good margin for yourself by doing that.

That's correct.

And what I typically do, and schools have been great about this, is I ask if I can send a letter home to parents and introduce myself, because I think that it's just a common courtesy to let them know this author's coming in, who's coming into the building and what's her background.

So I write a little letter and I do all the writing so that the principal doesn't have to add that to her or his plate.

And when there is an order form that if they'd like to order a book, there's no pressure at all, if they'd like to, I will bring the book with me on the day of the.

So that has been great.

That's terrific advice because I find that when I talk to some of the children's book authors that I've had on as guests, they tend to take the order form with them, but that generally tends to be not as successful.

Doing what Noelle suggested you do, doing it in advance can be much more a positive experience for you.

Absolutely.

And then it's like when you show up there, people want to walk away with the book.

And from the author visits I've done most of the times, if not all the times it's been in the classrooms or in an auditorium, the parents haven't been there.

The parents have already paid for the books.

Kids can go home with the books.

If you have an order form, then you have to ship the book.

And now you're adding more cost.

And a couple more steps for you.

Are you a bird Like Me is through Amazon.

Are you using Amazon's print on demand to get your author copies?

Yes.

And so you're making a much better margin when you take those books out with you than you would with your published books that you're doing through your traditional publisher.

Yes.

Another trade off is when you're doing something, let's say on demand or hybrid of some kind or your own independent process, the onus of the project is really on you.

Just everything is on you.

And that's not a bad thing to say, but it's just something to be aware of that you will be in charge of making the deadlines and following through.

And let's say that there's some branding or some marketing involved or just whatever you need to get this book up and running.

To find an illustrator.

All the parts of it are on you.

So talk to us.

It's neat to have you on as a guest because you can talk from the hybrid publishing aspect and you can also talk about from where you've taken on the project.

Now, you talked about the traditional publisher allowing you to help find the illustrator, which is great.

Did you use the same illustrator for both children's books?

No.

What the publisher did was they gave me choices.

So they have relationships with illustrators and they gave me some choices.

And then I went through their portfolios of all those different authors that they gave me the choices of.

That worked out well.

Now, when it came to the second book, we found our own publisher, and Pear Tree Publishing had on its website some illustrators they had worked with.

And so I saw one.

Colleen Scroy is her name, and that's who we went with.

I liked her work and I just thought it was going to work beautifully with this story.

And I just think her illustrations are beautiful and just really compliment the story so well, a lot of people will compliment the illustrations in that book that we were very blessed.

And if we did another book, if the storyline was in alignment with what I believe her style to be, how I see her style, I would call her back in a heartbeat.

We loved working with her.

She was wonderful.

I'm glad you said that because I've talked to some authors who just loved their illustrator.

So come hell or high water, they're going to use the same illustrator for all of their books.

And I've talked to some authors who have published five or six books, and that's what they've done.

Then I've talked to others who are like you, who had this story and the words and the illustrations had to come together to get the essence of the book.

So they used a different illustrator each time?

Yes.

Now, if you had a series, I could see how having that same illustrator could be more impactful.

And the consistency.

That's what we did with our first two books in our series is we've used the same illustrator because in our first book we introduced two main characters in the family.

And then in the third book, we introduced two more characters in the family.

So we stuck with the same illustrator because that person gave us the essence of what we were trying to capture.

Yes.

Yeah.

Thank you for mentioning that.

Your website again, I'm going to make sure there's a link to Noelle's website.

But it's an interesting dynamic with your website because you really got several audiences that you're speaking to.

In our case, the name of our website is Caboose, the Rocky Mountain bear.

Com.

It speaks to the series of our children's books.

In your case, you are using your website to do a broader range of things.

So talk to us about that strategy.

The reason I bring this question up is when I started the podcast, it's called Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors.

You can see it captures the same outdoorsy, woodsy feel, but it was a separate focus.

It's about a broad range of children's books that I incorporated into our Caboose website.

At this point, we're hosting ourselves with a separate idea because the podcast show is certainly.

Even though I talk to children's book authors, it's separate from our children's book series.

But in your case, you're wearing a lot of hats with your website.

So talk to us about that strategy.

You're making me laugh because I'm not quite sure if my strategy is the best because my books are incorporated in my business, that they're part of my business website.

And I have played around with the idea of should I just have a Noel Foy author website?

And I might do that.

I am a one woman show.

So I sometimes say, okay, I have to put that aside.

Just so you know, Noelle, I wasn't confused.

So I, I don't want to, I don't, I like, I don't want to have the listeners thinking, oh my goodness, Rick was confused.

No, I wasn't confused because.

And that's the point I'm trying to get across is that user strategically, whether you think the strategy is working or not working, you use that strategy to help build out your business and build your children's book business.

But it's more.

But it's more than that.

Your children's book business is more than that or it's part of a bigger offering.

And that's what I'm trying to get children's book authors to realize, that you can think outside the book and build it into a bigger offering.

Because to what you said earlier, Noel, you gotta sell a ton of books to make any type of living if you're going to become a children's book author and you'd like to draw in some Revenue, you always have to think about what some other sources of revenue I can build with my book.

So talk to us about your website and how you did that.

That's a very good point.

So yes, you can do well from workshops, author visits.

If you have a book, say I know one of your authors you had on recently as a deann who spoke about emotional intelligence.

Yes.

Deanna Plasko on episode 52.

So I'm not sure if she has workshops on that.

That is an example though where you could have a workshop in schools or you could be at libraries at different mental health institutions.

There's definitely a lot of opportunities if you have a workshop and then books that go along with it.

For my website, my business was there before the books.

So the books then became part of my business and I used them in the workshops.

I used them in the one on one coaching and I used them in the author visits.

I thought keep it all in one and then it can get a little confusing.

I have a nickname of being called Neuro Noel.

Right.

And so that's because a lot of what I do relates to the brain.

So I thought, okay, do I do a Neuro Noel website?

Now there's.

It started to feel like there's too many names out there and that's going to get confusing.

So on the website I basically just have a section about my author visits and then a section for the books explaining each books and then a section for the workshops.

And then the workshops will usually say using ABC worry free or using 15 minute focus executive function.

We will address these objectives and that's.

What I encourage everybody to go to your website because I love how you've done that.

And so it doesn't necessarily have to be Noelle's approach, but you can find your own approach.

And like I said to you, I'm finding more and more that especially teachers are coming on talking about developing a curriculum to support their book so that they can at least create some more revenue streams.

Absolutely.

And some people even do like courses.

I have played around with that idea and that's on my list of things to do.

But you could have a course that you could teach or a webinar and something completely online if you want.

And then the book is part of that.

I'm curious about your social media and I noticed that you have Facebook, Instagram and I believe you're also on LinkedIn.

Yes.

You said you had your website before you brought your books to children's books to market.

So talk to us about how you launched both of Your children's books, or all three of your books, for that matter.

How did you use your social media?

And did you use Facebook different than Instagram or Instagram different than LinkedIn?

Talk to us about your social media approach.

All right, so if I'm going to be absolutely honest, I came to this whole author experience with zero social media.

I came kicking and screaming to social media.

And then it really was an expectation with the publisher that became kind of part of our discussion.

And it's like an expectation and they give you is your contract.

These are some expectations we have.

I wrapped my head around it, and the only thing that I personally could make peace with was that I would do this.

I will do this only if I feel I'm being helpful.

That is why I write these books, is to be empowering, to help and support others.

So I was like, you're not going to find an Instagram where.

It's just.

I don't even know how to say this without sounding disrespectful, but I am not super comfortable of just pictures of me.

Ironically, what I'm finding is people like pictures of seeing me in the field so that I can make peace with completely because I'm out in the field and I'm doing what I love.

But beyond that, I just wanted to make sure that I was like, being informative.

So if you were to go to my Instagram or really Instagram is where I do this the most, is you'll find a picture of me or a video of me in the field or doing something related to my work.

And then the next post is going to be something about anxiety or executive function or the brain.

And it'll just be maybe a quote or a quick trick or strategy or insight, something that hopefully could be helpful.

Okay.

That somebody might be like, oh, so say, for example, are you forming your habits or are your habits forming you something just as simple as that.

Are you using that same strategy on LinkedIn?

I do more or less, but I do the most posting on Instagram to a certain degree on LinkedIn and.

And Facebook as well.

But I find for me, Instagram is just easier.

The reason I ask is because you have a business that you've developed with LinkedIn.

A lot of people said to me when I first started this, again, because I come with from a business background, I was very familiar with LinkedIn.

So that was my go to.

And then I slowly started building Instagram and Facebook.

What I found is someone put it in perspective for me.

The guest I had on my show she said she found with Facebook and Instagram, she was actually talking to a lot of the same people in terms of children's book authors, which was great to have the support and they were a very supportive community.

But she wasn't talking to her clients.

And so she said to me, I don't know what to do.

And I said, you know what, I'm on LinkedIn.

And if you go to LinkedIn, there's a lot of teacher and principal groups and they're huge.

I belong to one group that's over a hundred thousand principals and teachers.

Now you're speaking to clients versus speaking to a like minded group of children's book authors.

That's why I was curious about LinkedIn, because I'm trying to subtly suggest to other children's book authors, if you're going to build a curriculum, then you should be looking at LinkedIn as a potential place to start talking about your children's books.

Absolutely.

And you really bring up an excellent point.

So I do that on LinkedIn and there are some posts that I sometimes feel just lend themselves better to Instagram to link than LinkedIn.

So there are some that are on Instagram that aren't always on LinkedIn.

But that is a great suggestion for LinkedIn and I have received work through LinkedIn from my post.

Terrific, terrific.

I love to hear that.

Thank you for sharing that.

Absolutely.

Instagram, I find I have actually gotten work through Instagram as well.

And for me, because of my business with teachers, counselors, parents, I have children's authors and other types of authors.

I have a real hybrid of followers.

Sometimes I am speaking to my clients and sometimes I'm speaking to other authors.

It really depends.

With the Instagram you have in your bio a link to your books.

So you can always have that there.

I like, I went to this kicking and screaming as well, the stories.

I was like, what is the point of these stories?

And so now I get it though.

I really knew nothing about this whole social media world and I've learned a lot.

I still have a lot more to learn.

But when you do a story, as you probably know, you could put a link to your actual book right within the story and you could save that story if you want, into one of your highlights or that story could go away within 24 hours that I have found to be helpful.

Then Facebook, I could definitely, I need to do more group work in that.

So I would love to have somebody that could take care of that part for me.

I can definitely see for you, especially as you build a Clientele where Facebook groups could serve you well.

Yes.

And I need to make that more of a priority.

I'm at the point where, you know, I need to put somebody else in charge of that because there's so many balls I'm trying to keep in the air with.

I am right.

And it is.

It's hard as a one person shop.

Yes.

To do all that for sure.

It is, it is.

And I love it all, but sometimes I'm like, okay, that's just going to have to go on the back burner for now.

But it's a great recommendation, so I would say that.

Thank you.

Your listener would appreciate it.

I want to talk to you about your children's authorship motivation.

I know you talked about your young life as a child.

Was there a specific person or event that really triggered you to finally take action in terms of becoming a children's book author?

Two things come to mind.

One of my sons was diagnosed with post concussion syndrome.

That got me to a brain conference in Boston that I learned so much about the brain and how stress, but not just physical stress on the brain from, say, a concussion.

It was talking about emotional stress.

So how frustration, anger, anxiety and boredom and lack of relevance to what you're doing can be very stressful to the brain.

And as a teacher, I was like, oh, my gosh, why haven't I ever heard this before?

And the woman, her name's Judy Willis, she's a neurologist, and she said, what happens is when we get highly stressed, you hijack your executive function.

And now this is gonna look like behavior issues in your classroom.

So it could look like that kid I mentioned earlier whose head is down that's playing dead, or the kid who is acting out and throwing things or saying something nasty, or the kid that says, I have to go to the bathroom, and they've already gone to the bathroom three times in the class, or they're sharpening their pencil for the fifth time, and they're just looking for an excuse to not pay attention.

So I was like, okay, wait a minute.

This is new information that when I heard about what can happen with anxiety, that really resonated for me.

And I thought, oh, that is what used to happen to me.

So then the idea of really understanding it better, and then I became certified in anxiety.

So I went and got some coursework in there, understood it better, did a lot of research, and then that eventually led to the book.

That was definitely a pivotal moment.

And then just thinking about moments in my life where I avoided things because I was Anxious.

And I realized that I just wanted to stop the cycle, and I didn't want to model this for my kids or my grandkids.

So I was really motivated to write the book to help kids, but also to help myself.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

I want to talk a little bit about character development, especially in abc Worry Free.

And your main character is Max.

With Max, I love how you've introduced a couple of good friends, a pet, which is Snuffy the dog, which is fun.

And then I know you talked about having four sons, but in this particular story, there's two boys, which are brothers, and Chris, it's like he's probably about five years older than Max, I'm guessing.

Talk to us about this whole character development and intertwining.

A couple of good friends, a dog, and an older brother.

I was trying to make it relatable, first of all, and approachable.

That's one thing I love about children's books, is I feel it's a great way to tackle something complex or something hard to talk about sometimes, like anxiety, and try to simplify it and make it engaging and relatable.

Max, one of my sons actually was stung by bees.

So in the story, the character gets stung by bee while playing hide and seek.

And that actually happened to Max, and he came into the house covered with bees.

I didn't realize, like, underneath his shirt, there were all.

All these bees, like, stinging him as I pulled his shirt off.

Max is actually the name of your.

One of your sons.

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

Yes.

Thanks for sharing that.

That actually really happened.

And then I thought, okay, I want the mom.

So I was trying to incorporate through the dialogue things to say that are helpful during anxiety.

So I was trying to be.

This is the tough part.

With a book like abc Worry Free, at least for me, I found it challenging, is trying to make it a teaching tool, but not too boring.

Trying to make it engaging, but not so in your face that this is a teaching tool.

I thought, okay, if I make the mom or the dad the only one that's going to teach Max this trick, a lot of kids would rather learn from a friend or from a sibling.

So that's why I brought in Chris.

And we do have a Chris as well.

I decided Chris would come in and teach the trick, and I thought that it would be really impactful for Max to learn because Max really looks up to his older brother, and now he's going to learn.

Oh, my gosh.

You were once afraid of dogs, because Chris is going to reveal this to Max.

When he's teaching him the ABC trick.

And Max is mention again.

Tell the audience again.

Abc.

What does it stand for?

A is accept how you feel.

B is breathe slow and deep.

And C is change your thinking.

Max learns the trick from Chris, realizes, oh, you dealt with some anxiety with a dog.

Now, it doesn't have to be insects or animals.

It could be anything.

It could be going to school.

It could be getting an elevator.

It could be eating a new food.

I preach my students and in the workshops that you don't just focus on this bee thing.

Right.

You can replace the bee for anything that.

That you're anxious about.

Then the strategy can work for any of those.

Are Casey and Sam, your other two sons names?

Casey is granddaughter.

Okay.

Yeah.

And Snuffy.

Some people call my husband Snuffy in there.

And then, let's see, we have.

And, yeah, no, I decided that.

So I got Sam in there.

He's representing another son who.

Okay.

And then Casey is representing the son who I wrote.

Are you a bird like me with.

Because it's his daughter.

I was like, okay, I've represented that family.

So I got everybody in there as best as I could.

I love it.

And that's what I find with a lot of children's book authors, is somehow, some way, they.

Everybody sneaks in there.

Yeah.

Yes.

And even when I went to my grandchildren, Kira, we.

You'll notice we spell caboose with a K. And it's because if the K stands for Kira, I love it.

And of course, in our second book, Bailey is the beaver, and she picked the beaver as the animal because we tried to find animals that lived in the Rocky Mountains, and she became the beaver.

And my other three grandchildren are.

Their actual names are the name of their characters, and they've chosen their own.

I love that.

And we have some friends from Portland, Oregon, Linda, Tom.

And they're actually characters in our second book.

And they got to pick their characters, but they had to be from Oregon State, animals from Oregon State, and they got to be in the second book.

So there you go.

How cool is that?

So literary license, you can do whatever you like.

You can.

Just to wrap up about the development, wanted to show that this character had made a transformation and was open to learning and trying something new and practicing it.

The character starts off being pretty happy because he's playing hide and seek.

Then he gets stung.

He's obviously very upset.

Then he gets very rigid, inflexible.

And that's very common with anxiety.

So I was trying to show through the character Those traits that are very common and of course he wants to avoid.

That's a huge trademark of anxiety is avoidance.

So he's avoiding.

He's not going outside.

He doesn't want to play with his friends.

He's afraid he'll get stung by a bee again.

So he's really digging in his heels and his world gets very small and he's miserable.

We finally get to the point where he's open to learning something new, and then he practices it, and then he's able to enjoy his life again and get back out with his friends.

He does really develop.

And I love that how you use Snuffy and that whole.

It's fantastic.

Thank you.

The one thing I wanted to tell everybody about, too, at the end of the book, you have what you call a tips page, tips for parents and educators.

Explain why you did this.

And have you had any feedback from parents or teachers when they got to that part of the book?

Yeah, I wanted that to be like a little bonus.

And actually, that is something that the national center for Youth Issues often does with books of this nature that are teaching tools.

So you have to recap it.

They have a page in the back that's supposed to be like.

In some ways, you can consider it like a little cheat sheet or a quick guide.

Because I think that I can only speak, say, for example, with anxiety, there's a lot of misinformation out there.

And a lot of times I think that some parents think they're doing the loving kind thing by helping kids avoid things that are hard, let's say going to school.

And you think that's the right thing to do is to help that child avoid that thing.

That's hard.

But in the long run, it could make things worse.

Just trying to give them some quick language, some practical language, some practical quick do's and don'ts, so that they feel a little more supported.

Talk a little bit about your writing process, because I know you mentioned maybe there might be another book in there, but you're not sure.

But talk to us about, even for your business, what's your writing process look like?

It's a lot of thinking and planning.

And that's probably one of the biggest chunks of time, is thinking and planning and then actually sitting down to write.

And then I am definitely a big reviser.

I spend a lot of time revising.

Okay.

And what about research?

A lot of research.

Okay.

Because of the nature of my books.

Anxiety requires research.

You want to make sure you're giving them parents and kids and teachers and counselors tools that are based on research.

So a lot of research and a lot of reading.

And then obviously you do some reading of what's already out there on the subject.

What can I offer that hasn't been done that could be helpful?

Are you constantly changing your curriculum or your content through I forgot how many workshops you have on your website.

How many do you have?

Oh, I think there's probably about five up there.

I am constantly changing them, but there are some that are more popular.

For example, the one on anxiety is very popular and the one on executive function is very popular during COVID I did one on stress management that was very popular during COVID As far as like a time that I set aside, I'd be lying to you if I said, oh yeah, I'm up writing at 5:30 every morning.

No, I'm right when I can find time.

So I whenever I can find a chunk of time, I do it.

And sometimes I may maybe only got a half hour, but I'm okay with that.

There are days you feel like you didn't really move forward, but when you look back you realize that day was important.

Whether it was you came up with a different idea but maybe didn't write one different word, but it helps you get to the next step.

I do a lot of bouncing ideas off to my sons, especially the one that wrote are you a bird like me?

He's super helpful with editing and language.

My books, I feel it's great to get feedback.

So I do put them out there to teachers and friends.

I'll ask for feedback.

So from parents, counselors, teachers, I asked them for feedback.

I'm going to get you to do a little journey back.

We're going to go back in time because I want to talk to you about success measurement.

I want you to go back and think about because of the way you've approached this in terms of your publishing.

Talk to us about how you had envisioned success with your first book.

And once you got going, how did that success.

Success, when you look back at how you thought it would go and how it actually went, talk to us about that.

I think I was naive.

Once I got that first book out there, I thought, oh, this book is out there and it's just going to take care of itself.

That does not happen for me Anyway.

I'm not 100%.

I would say 99.9%.

Unless you're Stephen King or Dr. Seuss.

I'm going to say I'm not a household name yet I find that I have to do things.

So I need to be out in schools, I need to be posting, I need to be doing things, keep, let's say, the interest in the books.

So that was, I think, more of an eye opener.

And I don't know enough about the publishing industry back in the day, but I think when you were picked up by a publisher in those days, it wasn't the kind of social media that we have now.

And I think that the publishers were more in charge of the marketing and getting the books out there.

And now, even if you have a publisher, a lot of it is still on you.

Yes.

And that's what I've heard.

At the end of the day, there is expectations like you talked about through social media, big time and that type of following.

You look at people who have 100,000 or 200,000 followers.

That's why they get book deals, because of their social media.

And it's an interesting dynamic in terms of your book that you did with your son.

Are you a bird like me?

Talk to us about you had your first book out.

Your expectations are a little different.

Talk to us about the success expectations for that book and what does it look like?

That book obviously was 100% on us.

We making our own deadlines and goals and we're doing the whole process, finding the illustrator, getting the book to market, doing all the branding, the COVID everything.

We really enjoyed the process and the autonomy of that and all the decisions.

Again, that takes for at least us to getting that book into the hands of people who we think would really love takes us making posts and getting out into the schools and whatnot.

That book, like I said earlier, I get a lot of notes and feedback from teachers and parents saying it's a kid favorite, that one.

Obviously you love hearing that as an author, but yeah, it still took a lot of work, right?

It still will.

It's going to be your inertia that keeps it going.

Absolutely.

And advice for inspiring authors.

You've shared a lot.

It's fantastic and it's nice that you've come at it from a couple of different standpoints.

When it came to publishing advice for aspiring authors, what advice would you give them?

I would say if I were to think about the mistakes I made, I actually wrote a book when our first son was born.

Now that's close to 40 years ago, and I just had no clue what the process was like.

But I loved reading to our son and I was like, I think I can do this.

So I wrote a book, threw it out there, got rejected from everybody.

I Put that book in my desk drawer for about 40 years.

And then when it came time to think about doing ABC Worry Free, I really rethought my approach.

I was like, okay, let's research this a little bit more and do this more mindfully.

That made a huge difference.

And I feel I would encourage authors to go, if you have an idea, go look and see what else has been done on that idea and just say, okay, what do I have to offer that's different?

So take a look at other books that are similar and then in a similar genre and then look at the publishers who publish those books.

And that's what to me was the difference maker.

Because I started looking at books, then I wrote ABC Worry Free and then I looked at the publishers who wrote them.

And then, great idea.

It helped me target who might publish something about this topic.

You know what?

You're now, I think around my 70th children's book author that I've talked to, you're the first one that actually said look at who the publisher is.

So thank you.

It's amazing.

I think that's so helpful because the big mistake I made 40 years ago is I just sent it out to random publishers.

Like maybe they just publish adult work.

They may not even publish children's books.

I wasn't being intentional.

And very targeted.

That can save a lot of time.

Great advice, encouragement for readers.

So tell us why should readers and you may have to come at this from all three books, but tell us why readers should read your books or.

Purchase them if you happen to have any kids or students that are anxious.

ABC Worry Free is a great teaching tool and I think it's a fun aging story.

And at the same time, like I said, it will give you like a very explicit three step strategy, an actionable approach to manage anxiety.

Are you a bird like me?

Is I feel just a real playful, fun, sweet story about perseverance, friendship, facing fears, and what happens when we come together, the amazing things that can happen when we work together.

And that's about a little bird that falls out of a nest, it gets lost and has to go through a series of challenges to get herself back home.

And then the executive function book, 15 Minute Focus.

Executive Function is about practical tips, tricks and tools that you can use in real time to help kids who have, say, ADHD or challenges with executive function.

And it's really designed to support the parents and teachers and counselors in their lives, which ultimately helps the kids.

And all of the common thread of all of my work is, is really about empowerment.

It's helping kids to tackle some challenges, become more resilient, develop skills and develop their confidence and their mindset.

Skill sets and mindsets are really powerful when you can combine them.

Final Thoughts.

You shared a lot today.

Is there something you said?

Oh, you know what, I wish Rick would have asked me that question.

Is there something you'd like to share that I just didn't cover?

This is just a question that I don't know the answer to.

I have a publisher and I. I don't have an agent and I've often wonder what's the advantages of having an agent versus not having an agent but you also have a publisher.

So yeah, that's something that I thought about.

I know from just hearing through the grapevine it can be very time consuming trying to find one.

But I don't know if that's something that you've talked about before.

It's something I don't know a lot about.

It's interesting you should ask that because when I first started the podcast show for me, all I wanted to do is talk to children's book authors, and it didn't matter to me whether they were traditionally published or hybrid published or independently published.

The whole idea was that my guest could listen to a doer, someone who did it, who was a published children's book author.

And so far I've been attracting hybrid children's book authors and independently published children's book authors.

And anyone who's tried to go traditionally published and find an agent most of the time has said to me exactly what you just said, Noel.

It was so time consuming.

They just finally threw their hands up in the air and said, I'm a doer.

I'm going to go get my own children's book published.

And so that's what they did.

I've never had an agent on the show because I haven't talked to anyone who's actually been a traditionally published book authority.

I've had a couple of guests on who have published a few books and then they did go to a more traditional publisher.

But even those arrangements, I had bart Taylor Episode 53 on who is from Oklahoma, and he was writing some children's books and he eventually wrote three books regarding Will Rogers and ended up with a traditional publisher.

He did tell me, you know what, Rick, I got a better deal.

And so he handed over his rights to his books and they handle all the publishing now.

But he has a much richer deal than most traditional publishers would give you.

So am I one of the few guests so far that had the traditional publisher from the onset, from the first book.

Yes, yes.

And that's why I find it interesting that then you also went the hybrid publishing route.

Yes.

And I thought it would be helpful to have both experiences, to be able to compare them.

And they're both valuable.

Absolutely.

There's three different ways of doing it, primarily traditional, hybrid, and independent.

And at the end of the day, I think it's whatever you feel most comfortable with, because you said it earlier, Noel, whatever way you get published, you still have to do the majority of the work in terms of promoting and selling your book.

Yes, the promotion part and the selling.

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, you know what?

I could teach someone.

From all of the learning that I've had happen, I could teach someone how to get their book published.

The biggest obstacle is, and that's why I ask about a business book plan, because at the end of the day, it's all about the business.

After you've published the book, like, how do you get out there and.

And sell it?

And a lot of people think if they have a marketing plan or if they have strong social media, that's going to make them a success.

If you look at the 10 core elements of a business plan, a marketing or a sales or a distribution, that those are only one part of the entire book business plan.

Absolutely.

And like, just back for a second to the traditional publisher, the obviously big plus was I didn't put.

Have to put any money up front to pay the illustrator.

There was no upfront funds on my end for that.

They shouldered all the cost.

That was obviously what I love about.

It is at the end of the day, you still didn't give up your rights to your content.

Yes, I was.

And that to me is like, hats off to you.

That's just absolutely marvelous because you're building your business or part of your business around your children's books and you didn't have to give up to the rights to the content of those books.

Correct.

One question I have for you before we finish up is, have you taken your grandkids out on the road with you?

I actually have visited and done book readings in their classes.

Oh, terrific.

And we're starting to talk about maybe going to live events.

They have all got good personalities.

I think they could help sell some books.

If we went to some live events, that'd be the next thing.

I think there's some potential there to.

Take them on the road.

Noel, thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast.

Your generosity of time, your insights, I know, will significantly benefit aspiring authors and readers, and we promise to provide our audience with links to Noelle's social media and her website and her books.

And if you've enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to our future episodes.

And feel free to share this episode with anyone who's inspired by or who enjoys hearing about Noelle and her children's book, ABC Worry Free.

Thanks, Noel.

Thank you.

It was a lot of fun.