Explore blockchain law from a unique vantage point on this The Future of NFTs podcast, guided by Jacqueline Cooper's unparalleled expertise and insights.

Jacqueline brings her wealth of knowledge to the forefront, dissecting complex concepts, navigating legal challenges, and unveiling the potential that lies within the blockchain revolution. Her experience at the helm of BLI ensures that our discussions are not only enlightening but also deeply practical, providing you with actionable takeaways that empower you in your own legal journey.

Get ready to expand your horizons, challenge your perceptions, and gain unparalleled insights into the evolving world of blockchain law.

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Blockchain Legal Institute - Mastering Blockchain Law: Expert Perspectives

Participants:

• Nadja Bester (Co-founder of AdLunam)

• Jacqueline Cooper (CEO of the Blockchain Legal Institute)

00:22

Nadja

Hey, web3 world. This is Nadja Bester from AdLunam, the all in one Web3 investment ecosystem empowering early stage startups. And of course, you are listening to The Future of NFTs, the show that looks beyond current NFT use cases to what non fungible token technology is evolving into. All this as seen through the eyes and built by the minds of the fascinating guest speakers that we speak to each week and that you are joining us for. As for AdLunam, from tokenomics to community growth, VC fundraising to IDO launches, and our unique Engage to Earn platform, we're transforming the way investors experience the world of Web3 investing and dynamic NFTs. And through our monthly Web3 pitch arena, we are bridging the gap between innovative startups and venture capital. Now, today our topic is a rather serious one because it does touch on every single aspect of Web3, whether some people like it or not.

01:21

Nadja

And that is law. Now, joining us today. Yeah, we're going to get into that. So joining us today is a true polymath in the world of law, education and blockchain. Jacqueline Cooper is the CEO of the Blockchain Legal Institute, and she has a passion that is rooted in personal discovery, which definitely shows up in the work that she puts out into the world. Part of this is to bridge the Web3 gap between complex concepts, including law and everyday understanding with a very hands on approach that we can all learn from. And I'm very excited to get into more details about exactly what her approach has been. So Jackie is, as I said, the founder of the Blockchain Legal Institute, and she's also the host of multiple different talk shows, including CryptoMom2 and the Government Blockchain Association. Now, Jackie's commitment to the Web3 industry, which, as I said, I'm very excited to get into because it really speaks to the multiple pathways that people come into this industry, is really fueled by a multifaceted background spanning law, national board, special education, and she's the author of a series of books, Bitcoin Cinderella among them.

02:39

Nadja

Very excited to be talking about this. As for the Blockchain Legal Institute Jacqueline will definitely be telling us more about this. But this is a central hub for the blockchain community, focusing on three pillars, education for professionals and legislators, insights for legal compliance and opportunities for marketing and leadership. Now, BLI, the Blockchain Legal Institute unites experts and enthusiasts through events, webinars, books and campaigns, and doing the very important work of fostering a well-informed community that is ready to navigate this extremely rapidly evolving blockchain landscape. So, Jackie, I'm extremely excited to be talking to you today because especially starting with the first question, because we've had this conversation before, and I would love to ask you once again, please tell me, what has your journey? Been to get into this industry of blockchain that, as I said, is evolving on a daily basis is so complex for so many different people.

03:44

Nadja

And your approach is something that I absolutely have found to be so incredibly hands on and inspiring, because I think there's not too many people that when they educate themselves and their audience post that take such a really just getting your hands dirty, getting stuck in there, making sure you understand something to the deepest possible level. So you're very excited to hear what is your background story that led you to being here with us today?

04:12

Jacqueline

I'm really excited to be here too. When I think about my own personal journey, it has not been very traditional. But then, even when I was a little girl, it was so funny. I either wanted to go into science or I wanted to go into politics, which I have never done. But I thought that if you were going to be the President of the United States, you had to be a lawyer, which is not the case. But I always loved service. I always loved helping people. So I ended up going into law school. But because of my passion for healthcare and patients' rights, I ended up stepping into that space initially. But at college, my major was multidisciplinary. It was science, technology, and society. So many years later, when I learned about blockchain, it really felt very comfortable to me because the technology was something that I was really interested in learning and understanding.

05:13

Jacqueline

It was kind of confusing to me since I'm not a coder, but I love math, so I was trying to figure that out. But there was the overlapping implications of policy and application. So being a parent, I always tried with my daughter to inspire her to try new things. And I also realized that, okay, if I'm going to be encouraging her to do new things, then I need to kind of walk the talk too. So that sort of kind of led me into learning about a lot of different areas. And I had no interest in finance. So when I first learned about blockchain, it was through an altcoin. And when I say I had no interest in finance, the traditional finance world, but when I learned about altcoins, it was like, this is interesting, let me figure it out. But when I was trying to online meet people, I was struggling with finding people that I could ask questions and not feel like they were just trying to sell me something.

06:20

Jacqueline

So I'm an avid traveler, and I met a woman in Scotland, and she had been in the cryptocurrency area for a while, and she was very patient with all my questions. She showed me how to open up a wallet, which was not very intuitive to me. And I realized as I was struggling with learning this part of the space that others probably were too. So I thought, okay, I can do a show, I'll do a talk show, I'll document my journey. And in doing that, it might help someone else who has the same questions. And then I started reaching out to different people all over the world as I was starting to research my questions. And I learned about NFTs, I learned about metaverse, I learned about a whole slew of other topics, and one thing led to another at the same time. That was about six years ago.

07:14

Jacqueline

At the same time. Well, actually, prior to that, I am an active lawyer. I am licensed in the states, but I also love working with children. So about 16, 17 years ago in my state of Maryland, they have what they call a resident teacher program. So you go back and get recertified. And so I went back up to masters so I could become a special education teacher. So I'm dual certified in that. So at the same time that I'm doing my outside entrepreneurial projects in the afternoon and evenings, I'm teaching. And as I was teaching, because I realized there's all these alternative learning styles and there's all this need for different types of education, and we all learn through stories, or at least that's one way that we learn. And so I realized as I was learning more about blockchain, about Bitcoin, about NFTs, and about cryptocurrency, that there was an educational gap.

08:18

Jacqueline

There wasn't anything there that I saw that existed that could be a read aloud for parents and adults with children. Now children, my daughter included, she was already gaming. So they understand about tokens, they understand about a lot of the different technology uses. That's not my generation. This was not native to me, but I was becoming especially as a teacher, I had to adapt, otherwise you don't do. And also as a teacher, I realized I needed to learn the hands on side of it in order to be able to teach the students if they asked me questions. That sort of led to me. And I also became a bitcoin miner as I was exploring bitcoin. And I now have a node, so I'm learning about that. But I realized I needed to write a story. So I started to write The Bitcoin Cinderella series. And I always say to everyone, it's sort of like the Harry Potter and the blockchain.

09:20

Jacqueline

So I looked at the Cinderella story and the first book, I have another book, which I'll talk about in a second, the Cinderella story. I looked at the framework and I looked at all the blockchain terminology that someone who might need to know, might need to step into it. So I incorporated a timed NFT in the ball to kick Cinderella out. The ball was in the metaverse as well as within the palace space. The wallet included seed words, but again, big disclaimer know, the prince had some seed words, Cinderella had the others. So when the wallet opened, that was the glass looked. And then in the back of the book, there were QR codes to glossaries and other things. But so it's a very easy read and it allows people to step into the world of Blockchain and the terminology, because each area, as I was researching, is very rich with the vocabulary and it's kind of overwhelming, especially if you're new.

10:27

Jacqueline

And so the second book that I wrote is The Bitcoin Cinderella and the Seven Dwarves and it's the Snow White fairy tale. And that's about bitcoin mining. And it talks about hard forks, soft forks, you name it, lightning. And for each book I'm researching, I have two other books, which we'll talk about in a second that are on the plate, that I'm researching and writing about. But this sort of brings us to the Blockchain Legal Institute. I was at the Bitcoin conference in May in Miami, and Cleanspark had sponsored the giveaway of my second book, the Bitcoin Cinderella and the Seven Dwarves. All the books are available on Amazon for those that are interested. But I was giving the book away for free. We had about a thousand copies. And a young woman who was an attorney came up to me at the table and said, how are you doing practicing Blockchain law?

11:24

Jacqueline

How did you get into it? And I shared with her, I'm not I'm in education, but I can give you resources. And when she walked away, I turned to my associate who's at the table, and I said, this is going to be hard for her because there's so many different topics. And like you said, the space is evolving so fast, so it's really hard to know where to look, what to do. And I drew out a picture that I had in my mind as to how to solve this problem. And I said, can we do this? And he said, yeah. So the Blockchain Legal Institute was created, and it's www.bli.tools. And it is a centralized hub for our decentralized world. And so it has news events, it has information about artificial intelligence. It has a bitcoin vertical, an ethereum vertical, a blockchain use verticals because Blockchain is being used in a lot of different businesses.

12:25

Jacqueline

It has associations. We're affiliated with the Anti Human Trafficking Intelligence Initiative. It's a library of resources, basically. It has laws from all 50 states, has laws from around the world. And every country, more countries are being added every day. And I know that where we are now, where it's going to be in the next six months to a year, it's going to be a really rich resource for individuals to do research and learn about laws and policies as well as basic information. But again, I'm really excited for the associations that are coming on board, the partners that are coming on board, and the members, because it's going to be an international networking space where people can actually communicate with others. And we're having our first global education summit in October. So I'm really excited about all this because it combines my passion of law and education and supporting those that are both new into the community as well as those that are more experienced, that just need access to a resource, that has reliable resources.

13:43

Jacqueline

So that's a lot.

13:45

Nadja

That is a lot. But it's an amazing journey and I think what really comes through so absolutely clearly is your commitment to education. And this is something that we throw the word around in Web3 all the time about the importance of education, but there's very few people that actually put their money where their mouths are in the way that you have. I don't speak to many people who want to learn about mining and then actually end up having their own node. So I think that really is a testament to your dedication to truly understanding something, A and then B, making it available to other people. There's so much to get into. So I want to start off at a point maybe let's start with the elephant in the room. Most people in the Web3 space, when they hear the word law, they hear the word regulation.

14:35

Nadja

Let's say it doesn't put a smile on their face per se. So maybe let's start there for you. What is the role of law in this space and why is it necessary?

14:47

Jacqueline

So, as a lawyer, one of the pet peeves that I've had for my profession, which is why I've had a nontraditional law practice and I think I might have mentioned this to you too, I do not like the idea of billable hours. And when I was first starting off in law, my whole focus was on solving a problem, helping a client, not thinking about the little seconds that needed to be billed. And that was very frustrating to me because that's just not how my mind works. So going into the policy side, I understand the need for protecting the consumers. I understand the need that there are both good players as well as bad players that are out there. But that's true in every business. And also as an entrepreneur, I understand that there needs to be laws to support businesses. But my concern is the over regulation, which dampens creativity.

15:57

Jacqueline

I know personally right now in starting the Blockchain Legal Institute, I am opening up a bank account and it has been not a very easy transition because the bank keeps asking me, are you going to accept crypto? Why are you accepting cash for when you sell your books? All these I understand they need to make sure that there's no money laundering and things like that. But every time I say no or this is the explanation for what it is that I'm doing, they come back with another question. And so this type of law sometimes can be good because it can prevent fraud or help maybe slow down that area. But at the other side of the equation for the business person, it's not. So within this space, the web three space, the NFT space, the Blockchain space, the other challenge we have is the diversity of laws and definitions that exist around the world.

17:03

Jacqueline

Now, every country has its own area that they're going to allow or not allow, but that also some of these laws are international, so it cuts across. But if you're playing in the space or doing business or being creative in this space, it's hard to know if what you're doing in one place is going to be allowed in another place. And that's where confusion happens. And that's part of the frustration that I have wearing the legal hat is sometimes I think the definitions are being defined by people who have not actually been in this space. And so that means that they don't really understand because they're only being educated by those that are giving them research reports. But then again, there are some that are very educated. So it's a balance. So law can be good, but it also can be a hindrance.

18:07

Nadja

Yeah, I mean, I think you touched on a really good point because generally in this industry, just in terms of definitions and I'm not even talking about law for every concept that we have in web three, even the term web3 itself means completely different things to different people. And that's, to the layperson or to industry professionals, is not even touching on legal definitions that come with very real world consequences. So I'm curious. Obviously the role of the Blockchain Legal Institute is to bridge this gap. But generally speaking, wearing the hat both as the CEO of BLI but also a lifelong educator with a massive commitment to making sure that the murky waters that people move in become easier to understand. What is your overall philosophy in terms of where we are right now as an industry where so much confusion is just happening all over the show?

19:01

Nadja

I mean, we've seen it play out in the US. Where a company is trying to comply with regulations and then only to find out, okay, but they're not. But what do they have to do? Well, they don't know. So there's so much official confusion, never mind the industry confusion. So how do you think we're going to get to this state that we're in right now where no one really knows what's going on, moving towards a future where we do kind of have more of a shared understanding, not only in the industry, but also, as you say, between the different legal definitions and understandings from country to country.

19:38

Jacqueline

20:55

Jacqueline

And I'm not saying that everything needs to be standardized globally like that, but even the UN, they're using Blockchain, so there's different organizations who start to incorporate it, where these technologies become mainstream. Then those individuals and those players are going to have also a conversation on how can this support them because we all are personally invested. How does this help me, what's in it for me, and then what's in it economically? So when it starts to become what's in it for me economically? For the big players, then they start to make sure that it becomes more accessible to everyone else who's not a big player. And unfortunately, it's the big first and not the individual. It should be the individual first and then the big. But I think that it's going to become more standardized, but maybe not in a bad way. And that's the approach with the Blockchain Legal Institute too well, for all the pages that are on there with all the information, I'm definitely trying to give definitions, but I'm also trying to really focus on highlighting what are the legal issues within each of these areas.

22:16

Jacqueline

So that way the broad framework, whether it's intellectual property or the copyright or family law, whatever the areas that might impact it, can be outlined. Again, there's so many different layers here. But I think that we are going to have both standards within the industry which is going to also help individual consumers know that a company that says that they are providing a certain service can actually provide that service. Because that's also the challenge, is I'm not a coder, so I don't know anything about Solidity or any of these other protocol platform. I know open source, but I won't be able to look at it and say, okay, that's a bug, or that's okay. And so we do need both the technical side as well as the policy overlay side. So if we end up putting our business on a blockchain protocol, we know that certain standards are there.

23:21

Jacqueline

So the privacy, the identity theft doesn't happen. There's so many different pieces to this, but it's an exciting time.

23:32

Nadja

Yeah, that it definitely is. Sometimes it's exciting in the way that it gives you gray hairs and ages you before your time, but it's always exciting for sure. I want touch on something that you said about the conversation having started now. Of course, at this level of regulatory players and the big industry players, that's a very high level conversation that is happening. And that is important because there are consumers and there's actually a lot of consumers who are not involved in this industry whatsoever. And so the only information they're getting is, for example, from the media. And the media says, well, crypto is a scam and NFTs are scam, and all of these things are scam and stay away from it. So I'm curious because you straddle both worlds. You're both involved with the legal professionals and those players that are the ones that really have a vested interest in these high level conversations.

24:28

Nadja

But you also have an audience that you have been educating like the everyday people of the world that don't necessarily understand all of these legal definitions. So how do you see these two conversations interacting? The average person who doesn't necessarily have the amount of, let's say, time or enthusiasm that you had in really learning about this, but they still need to understand the basics of what's happening and how to safeguard themselves, I think is probably the most important thing.

25:00

Jacqueline

I think I got into the talk show side for my own personal interest, trying to learn and then also sharing out and educating others. But as I continue to explore the media side and listening to Euro News and other news platforms, my concern is the responsibility of media in being educators as well. And I think that the challenges is when we only look at sound bites like you said and where Crypto is a scam that's not doing a deep dive. As to the applications of where it really can be used know the applications of how NFT is bridging both the digital as well as the products and the immersive environment. I mean, there's so much creativity that is here and that's the problem that I have with the media is that they're only looking for the 32nd hit to get the next feed out instead of education.

26:10

Jacqueline

So, like with when I do my talk shows, I'm talking to individuals who own businesses and who are trying to solve a problem and who are exploring the space in a variety of topics. And I'm interested in figuring out, okay, who are the clients that you serve and then what's the technology, what's the definitions around it. And I'm always in my shows trying to also redefine.

26:39

Nadja

So you were saying about the El Salvador government and working with them in order to translate Bitcoin Cinderella into yeah.

26:48

Jacqueline

So I'm really excited about working with different associations and in working with the Bitcoin association to try to get the Bitcoin Cinderella Spanish English version to the families that are learning within their country. I also realized that I now have to think about, okay, I need a Bitcoin wallet. I need a point of know little store. So if someone wants to buy it with Bitcoin, not from Amazon, with US dollars or the other currencies that are available there, how do I set it up? And those are the practical steps that have to happen. But as a consultant, whether a lawyer, accountant, or whoever might have clients like me come in and say, okay, I want to do this. I have a book now and I want to have it go into other countries and I want to have it be navigate the crypto side. The other thing is I'm going to jump over to the NFT side.

27:47

Jacqueline

So last year in July, I was at the NFT Expoverse in California and Project Arc was helping me get my book onto OpenSea. And there was a whole slew of other issues that we realized in putting a book into an NFT, one copyright, but also then the size of it because I was doing an audio. And so again, there's a lot of technical things that kind of overlay the it's all creative, but it kind of overlays the business side as well as the distribution side, the supply chain side. The conversations that I've had with those that I've interviewed from around the world have been fascinating. I mean, I was talking to a company in South America who uses NFTs to document the supply chain with companies, major supply companies down there. So it's the cross applications. And then you go into the legal side because of the fact that some of these the products are traditional, but the communication of sharing the information might be considered not traditional.

29:04

Jacqueline

But I don't even think that these days not traditional even applies because everything that we're doing that was once unknown or not usual, like, we had rotary phones. Now we have cell phones. So as the technology changes, we have hotels, we have B and B now. So again, as the technology changes, it becomes more part of the mainstream. And this part of the mainstream, yes, the laws have to apply to it, but we also have to have flexibility so that way we don't stifle the creativity. There's many layers here and we need individuals who can ask questions, who can help educate those that are in the policy side and who also will vote. I want to say, no matter what country you're in, if you have the ability to vote and you're in this space, you need to vote. Because if you don't vote and you don't speak your mind as to what you want, then others are going to make that decision for you.

30:11

Jacqueline

And that is critical. Right now, we need to say that we are here. This is what we want. Otherwise they're going to be making decisions because they don't think it's a large space.

30:25

Nadja

Yeah, no, absolutely agree with you. I think it's so important to stress that even though it feels as an individual that your voice doesn't count. We are a collective, and ultimately it's only by means of being a collective coming together, really standing your ground for one, and stating what you believe in and really going after it, that we're able to well, separate ourselves as an industry. In the sense you were mentioning earlier that this top down regulation really stifles creativity, and I want to get more into that. But I saw earlier in one of the many spaces that we've had today in the audience comments, that in the audience questions, rather, there were quite a few questions about CNBC. So I wonder, what are your thoughts on the role of this in terms of kind of sending the industry in a certain direction as opposed to another, which obviously there's people that are for it.

31:25

Nadja

They definitely, I think, in the minority at this point. But there are many governments pushing for a national digital currency as opposed to the more decentralized nature of web3 as a concept.

31:37

Jacqueline

That's a really interesting conversation about national digital currency. Some people are concerned about governments turning money off, others are not. I don't see any problem with it, but that's a personal opinion. I think that the challenge with national digital currencies is we also goes back to privacy. Our personal privacy has been eroded over the years because we don't read as the internet has evolved and the web3 has evolved, we don't read our terms and conditions, and so we click yes, because we want access. And that's the same thing with a lot of these artificial intelligence tools. I have a note writer on some of my stuff, but I exit out of that because I realized I don't know where my notes are being housed, I don't know where the videos are being housed, and I don't know who has access to that information. So the same thing could be said with national digital currency.

32:49

Jacqueline

If it's a one to one ratio, and it's digital and it's on a national wallet and it's in your bank, but it's also tied to a hybrid physical coin that you actually have, that's one area to think about, but also think about in your bank. Unless you actually have the cash in your hand in your bank. That's digital right there. All it is a line item that says you have $100 in your bank account, but your bank might not actually have the physical cash. If you are going to be pulling out a lot of money, you have to give them notice, at least here in the states, that you're pulling that much money out because they might not have it. They might have to move it from a different source. So the digital idea of digital dollars and things like that, we're already dealing. With digital money.

33:44

Jacqueline

So I don't see that as a challenge, but I think that there might have to be certain safeguards put up to protect privacy, to protect access, that type of thing. So we already are using PayPal, Venmo and other digital so really, the idea that the government wants to get involved, I just see as an extension of digital banking that we're already doing. But we probably need to put in some protections in place for the consumers who might be using. So and it has to be backed. My concern is that a lot of times, at least in the states, our money is not backed by Gold anymore. So again, we just need to think what is the value of this and how is it going to be used and how are the consumers who are using it going to be protected?

34:38

Nadja

I want touch on because you mentioned privacy and the example of the AI note takers, and I mean, Zoom recently had this huge controversy about their privacy terms and conditions that they've updated and stated that it will be used to train AI models and you can't really opt out. So the role of a book like Bitcoin Cinderella, for example, if we think about the educational aspect, you mentioned at the beginning, how humans are really primed to learn through storytelling. And I mean, this is true for pretty much any concept. It's much easier, no matter how complex it is to digest something. If you pick up a children's book and you read front to back, by the end of it, even if it's a rudimentary understanding, you will have more of an understanding, let's say holistically, as opposed to reading an article. And it's a whole bunch of text, and it might be words that are really high level, but if you put it all together, you wonder to yourself, I mean, what did I just read?

35:40

Nadja

So do you think that books like Bitcoin Cinderella, for example, is something that could educate people about privacy in a way that at the moment, not many people are concerned about privacy. They don't understand why it's an issue. And I think that's a much larger conversation than just web3. I mean, this is something that we've been seeing in tech over the years. I was actually laughing to myself when you mentioned about the terms and conditions, because I went to a doctor the other day and I signed the waiver, and I signed in one place without reading, and then I signed in the other place without reading. And then I realized I'd canceled out my first signature by signing my signature, my second one. And I was just realizing once again how primed we are to just say yes and put our signature so we can move on to the next thing.

36:29

Nadja

So do you think that the role of storytelling, especially in this way, where, I mean, the way that you've used Bitcoin Cinderella, it's something that obviously most people in the world have come across the fairy tale. It's something that they can relate to, whether they're reading it to their kids, whether they're reading it for their own benefit. Just to understand the basics of what you're talking about. Do you think that also we would be able to convey the importance of privacy, data ownership and these kind of things more through a storytelling medium than what we are doing right now? Kind of scaring people and saying, oh, you need to start caring because the implications are so big? Yeah. Where do you think the role of storytelling lies? Especially in web3, where there's just so much complexity?

37:11

Jacqueline

I love what you're talking about. And I was smiling as I'm listening to you because part of the conversation that I've had with the individuals that I'm collectively talking to for the Bermuda story, which will be the bitcoin Cinderella and the Pink Sands treasure of Bermuda when it finally gets written, is were talking about how they don't have one fairy tale. And so I'm approaching it that each chapter is going to be a different oral conversation that Cinderella has with the children on the island. And for those that don't know the Cinderella story, in the original story, in Cinderella, the mom dies. But in my Cinderella, I have Samantha's mom be one of the original blockchain engineers who worked with Satoshi. And so she actually leaves Cinderella to go on another quest in the metaverse to solve another problem. So Cinderella, over these ten books, is on a hunt to find her mom and her mom's leaving clues in the various parts of the blockchain so that way they can reconnect.

38:23

Jacqueline

And every time Cinderella thinks she sees her, it's something else that she's discovering. And so one of the things that I've talked to the Bermuda team about is the idea that within the story, because there are a lot of pirate stories, it's the idea that there will be hacking, and I can talk about that. And tied to that is the idea of privacy or personal identity theft. So, yes, that is going to be discussed in the next book, because that is something that we understand about if you have a coin cryptocurrency, you might want to move it over to a cold wallet and not leave it on an exchange that can get closed down. But we don't always think about those things. I'm a victim myself. I mean, I'm a bitcoin miner, but the company that I had my rigs with and again, this was because I wasn't educating myself.

39:19

Jacqueline

They had a master pool, and then we had sub wallets. I didn't realize that until I ended up having that access closed. And so again, there's a lawsuit going on, but as a result of I was just very trusting thinking, oh, well, this is great. I have my daily drop of bitcoin into my wallet, and I didn't move it over into anywhere else. And so those are things that, no matter how intelligent or educated you are, we still have to kind of do the research. And with the privacy side and the terms and condition side, we get bombarded with information every day. And like you said, we don't take the time to read. And even if we did read, would we say no? Because we want the services, we want the products. So what choices do we have? What would happen if we did say no to the terms and conditions?

40:16

Jacqueline

41:28

Jacqueline

After that, it supposedly doesn't have information. You want it to be current, so it has to gather new information, but you can still put limits on the information that it gathers. And I do think you're right, we have to have the ability to opt out. But I also know that when I open my Zoom up, I have a laundry list of different apps that I could maybe have either a free trial with or use. I think that Zoom probably needed to cover itself by saying that everything is a yes, because they're now offering these apps. And it probably would be a lot more complicated legally for them if they gave us an opt out, because they are pushing these apps onto every screen. So they might not technically be able to opt those apps out if someone said no. So, again, it's not right, but I can see why in their business model, they did it.

42:30

Nadja

But I think this is such a great full circle, having come from the beginning of our discussion today about what really is the role of law, and then if we think about something like, yes, we want people to think more about privacy, and they want to think more about their own digital footprint across the Internet. But then the discussion about, are you even able to opt out, that's something that really not a lot of people are having, because we've been so entrenched in our thinking to think well, I mean, the only way to opt in is to say yes. And if I don't opt in, well, then I don't play the game along with everyone else. So definitely that's a very good full circle to understand. But yes, that is really a very important role of law, is to safeguard these things in a sense that people don't think about this.

43:14

Nadja

They don't even think about the basic privacy. So how to even do that mental gymnastics to get to the point of but wait, you know what? This is not right, that I'm not able to opt out. But I'm watching the comments and I see there's a question here that I think really kind of ties into a lot of what we've been speaking about. Let me just quickly find it. Now I'm scrolling and scrolling. What advice would you give moms out there or people in general who are still not sure or are afraid to get into crypto? And I think we've touched on so many different aspects that you can say, yes, it's pretty legit to feel scared, because no matter how educated you are in the space, no matter how educated you are in general, you're not going to safeguard yourself necessarily from falling into scams, from falling into mistakes made simply because you didn't read the terms and conditions.

44:08

Nadja

So what is your advice for whether it's moms or just any newbie that wants to get into this industry? And as you said at the beginning, your specialization when you were studying was such a wide variety of aspects. So obviously your brain is very much geared to think in these different, let's say, buckets. But for most people to jump from finance to economic I mean, finance and economics to technology to the sociological factor, it's a lot to ask of people. So what is your advice to someone that's just starting out?

44:42

Jacqueline

It is a lot. So a few things before I talk about the crypto wallet side, when you started talking about the mom side, it sort of tied into something that I was thinking that I wanted to kind of connect back over to the privacy side. As a mom. We also, as a parent, because I'm sure their dad's on here too, we want to protect our child's privacy. And that's also something that we have to look at because kids are online, they're gaming, they're saying yes to conditions too. And the platforms are maybe saying, are you a certain age? And the kids are probably lying, saying, yes, I am, and making up a date and whatever. So this is another reason why I wrote the Bitcoin Cinderella books. You have to have a conversation with your kids about protecting their identity because their digital footprint, it's not just about putting pictures online anymore.

45:40

Jacqueline

Their digital footprint will live forever. And that's another thing. As a lawyer, and I will get over to the crypto side in a second. As a lawyer, I also have access to, in the United States, affordable, flat rate legal services so people can reach out to me about that. I'm passionate about everyone having a will. If you don't have a will, even if you're single, you need a will. Because if you have a digital asset, you have an asset that you need to will. Because if something and your family needs to know how to access that asset. I have a daughter who's 27 now, and I created another book, which I popped online to Amazon because it was a wallet organizer. Because when I asked her, do you have an interest in learning about what I'm doing? She said, not really. I said, well, you need to, because even if I invest $10 in Bitcoin, that is your inheritance, and if you don't know how to access it, then that means that when I pass, it will stay online forever.

46:42

Jacqueline

And the inheritance that I'm trying to create for you won't know how to reach. So it's really important to have these conversations about privacy and also your digital assets with your family. I know people are afraid to let people know how to access your seed wallets and all that other stuff, but your family needs to know. And so that's something that really passionate about, which is the other reason why I created the BLI Tools Blockchain Legal Institute. Because those are things that these are conversations we don't always want to have. Going back to the cryptocurrency side, start and again, this is not legal advice, not investment advice, not financial advice. All those disclaimers. Start small, don't be afraid to start, but don't use your money that you need for the rent or the mortgage or food or your kids. Just start to try something. If you put something in, be willing to lose it.

47:38

Jacqueline

Don't have it. Be something that is so critical to you that if something happens to it's going to stress you out. But start to explore. That's what I did. I just started to explore small, bite sized ways. Again, the Blockchain Legal Institute is a platform that I'm hoping will provide people with that comfort of the education that they have and to ask more questions. You have to ask questions to learn, and that's what we teach the kids. If you don't understand something, ask a question. And like they always say with the word fail, it's just first attempt in learning. When you ride a bike, you don't get on the first time and just ride, you fall. So you have to take the time to have that experience. Not be afraid to have the experience, but have mentors who can help you lift you up instead of tear you down.

48:49

Nadja

Jackie, I think after listening to you for the past hour, for those of us who were patient enough to deal with all of the technical issues, I think it's very clear that you definitely fulfill that role very well. In this industry of providing the education, providing the simplification of the education and also the mentorship that is sorely needed for people to exactly as you say. I always say the difference between having never tried something and trying it for the first time is zero to 100. So once you take that first step, yes, then it is the first step. But you cannot even begin to understand any of how this works and why it exists. If you don't get your hands dirty, take $5. If that's what you can afford to lose, take $5. Really just understand by doing as opposed to trying to really ingest all of this information theoretically, because that's never the way that anyone is going to understand something by learning it in a textbook.

49:50

Nadja

However, I do see in the comments someone said that crypto should be taught as a separate subject in schools. So I think that's something that we can all agree on definitely needs to happen. And I think the books that you have been working on and will continue to work on might be one of those resources in the future. So I see we've come to the end of the hour. So just to close things off, if people want to follow you, where is the best place to stay in touch?

50:18

Jacqueline

So I'm definitely on Twitter, I'm on LinkedIn. I would ask that you visit www.bli.tools. Tools. It is a subscription and if you message, I will send you a discount code. And also I can provide it for the show notes as well. But definitely let me know what questions you have. The bitcoin Cinderella books are on Amazon. It's about sharing, letting others know. And I also want to say I'm still scared with different things that I do too. When I move my crypto, the small amount that I have from one wallet to a coal wallet or whatever, I'm always still nervous because I don't do it every day. So I still have to go back to my notes. And that's the other thing I will tell everyone. This is so critical and this is why I created the organizer for my daughter. Different wallets have different ways of having you verify.

51:31

Jacqueline

So I realized that there's a phone wallet, there is a computer wallet, there's Google Authenticator, there is authentication through email. There's a lot of different ways, which is why it is important for as you're going through this process to ask the questions, to write things down. So that way you don't have to rely on your memory because our memory is faulty. And I know we're going to have more conversations about all this, but again, it is a very exciting space, but there's a lot of layers to it. So reach out. That's why we're here.

52:10

Nadja

Well, thank you so much for your time and for all of the amazing insights that you shared today. I think it was just so rich with so many takeaways. And I wish we had 4 hours to discuss all of this. So my final question before I leave you to your wonderful Toronto Day and your conference that's coming up. What personal philosophy keeps you motivated in the space that's so complex, that is so rife with problems and with complexities? And as we said earlier, it ages you by ten years every ten minutes. If you look at the news and the industry news, what is it that keeps you going in here?

52:47

Jacqueline

Well, the first word that popped into my mind, which is actually true, is love. I love the people in the space, I love the learning, and I love the future of what is happening here, because I see the possibilities. I know I applied to kind of speak through GBBC to be at the UN for their sustainability development goal thing. There are so many individuals that don't have bank accounts. There are so many individuals in the world that are in climate impacted areas. We as a community, and this is what I say at the end of all my shows. Be kind to yourself, be kind to others. We're also interconnected. We're all part of one world these days. This is so true. I wouldn't be speaking to you now if it wasn't for the Internet. Again, we can navigate around the world on Zoom and Twitter and all these other platforms, but we also need to be personal and connected with people that we meet in the street that we see as we travel.

53:54

Jacqueline

We're people. We need to be connected and we need to be caring and loving about each other. And that's the fun of writing the stories, knowing that they're helping others, and figuring out what the next day is going to because it's an adventure, and I love being part of this ride.

54:16

Nadja

Well, I couldn't agree more, and I couldn't have said it better myself. It's so absolutely crucial that as we continue to evolve alongside technology, that we remember that we are very beautifully human with all our failings and all of our shortcomings. It is what makes us who we are. So AI might be I mean, not that it's at all perfect, but AI might be this future perfect tool, but we are still the ones that are having to engage with these technologies alongside our relationship with each other. So, Jackie, thank you so much for joining us today. It's just been absolutely delightful having you on. And if you are listening on Live, be sure to follow Jackie on Twitter. And if you're listening to this on the show, on the podcast, we will put it in the show notes. There's a whole host of different platforms where you can connect to Jackie and to the audience.

55:08

Nadja

Thank you so much for all of your patience today with all of yeah, very interesting quirks today that it had. And I will catch you again next week for another episode of The Future of NFTs, brought to you by AdLunam. Cheers, guys. Have a great day. Jackie, enjoy the conference.

55:23

Jacqueline

Thank you for everything. Have a great day, guys.

55:25

Nadja

Bye.