In this episode, I examine the complex topic of teaching children about war, specifically focusing on the Israel-Gaza conflict. Drawing from my personal background and experiences, I explore the intricacies of discussing such sensitive subjects in the classroom.

After that, something completely different as I preview my interview with Paudie Moore, The Teacher's Coach, on maintaining teacher wellbeing.

I also touch upon the goal of achieving 400 multi-denominational schools in Ireland and the challenges involved.

Resources for Israel/Gaza can be found here: https://simonmlewis.medium.com/i-need-to-talk-about-israel-including-some-resources-for-your-classeoom-8435df4698dc

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera:

Hello?

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Hello.

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You're very welcome to if I were the

minister for education, I regular

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podcast, where I look at the world

of primary education in Ireland

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and let you know what I would do.

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If I were the minister for education,

this is Simon Lewis on this week's show.

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I will be talking about Israel and

Gaza and how we can teach about the

8

subject of war in the classroom.

9

I have an interview with Paudie more.

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The teachers coach.

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And I'll also be exploring how long

it's going to take before we reach

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the government's target of 400

multi-denominational schools in Ireland.

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This week, I'm looking at

the it's the end of the year.

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And you may, maybe the rain has come

and sports day has been canceled

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and you don't have anything plans.

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I have an emergency geography lesson

with the help of AI to help you through.

30

So hopefully you'll enjoy that.

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So without further ado, let's

get on with this week's program.

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MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-1:

So I need to talk about Israel.

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As many of I come from

a Jewish background.

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And in some ways I've really

been avoiding talking about.

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The terrible war that's been going on.

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In Gaza for the last number of months.

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And I haven't been avoiding it

because for any other reason, That.

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I guess I've been a little bit

afraid to talk about it because

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in some ways, I don't know enough.

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Like many of you.

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Who went to school?

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I also went to school.

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And I am.

44

Unlike you, you probably went

to a school which indoctrinated

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you into some way of thinking.

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Most of you probably went to a

Catholic school and you would have been

47

taught faith formation in Catholicism

and you would have been raised.

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And in, in sometimes in

very subtle ways sometimes.

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Very much deliberately in the

fact that Catholicism was the true

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way of life and that worshiping

Jesus with the Ray of life.

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And it probably has translated

even if you don't believe in a

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lot of the messages or even a lot

of the religious hostility of it.

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Or you hear a lot of people calling

themselves cultural Catholics and which

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is a kind of a strange phrase because.

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In some ways, Catholicism, isn't

an ETH ethnicity as such, but it's

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almost become cultural in Ireland

in so far as you have many families

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who may not believe in God at all.

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In fact, we have lots of teachers, as from

that the latest grace reports that don't

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believe in God and are expected to pass

on the message of Catholicism and skills.

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And you have this very strange.

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Kind of situation and again as we leave,

what is known as even the fact that

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we have a communion season in Ireland

suggests that, the vast majority of

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people who reject Catholicism managed

to and its teachings and its dogma.

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We'll still go through with allowing with.

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Making their children do sacraments

and they see it as as not a

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religious event, despite the

fact that it's a religious event.

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And, we'll talk about.

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I don't think there's an episode of

this podcast where I don't explore the

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harm that can cause to families who

don't go into this sort of, Strange.

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Cultural phenomenon that only really

happens in Ireland where parents have

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essentially outsourced the religious

reluct religiosity of the Catholic faith.

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So they can have a kind of a party.

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Once when the child turns eight where

they thoughtlessly, don't think about

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the children that don't do that and

have to sit at backs of classrooms.

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I was no different, in some way that

I went to a religiously run school

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and myself, it was a Jewish school.

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And as part of going to a Jewish school,

I was taught the Jewish faith as truth.

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And And as many of I don't believe in

the religiosity of the Jewish faith.

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I don't believe in a God.

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I don't believe in much of the ad.

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The dogma and faith formation that

I would have been taught as truth.

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I don't believe in prayer.

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I don't believe in.

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In the dieters, I don't believe

it in any of the religious sort of

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things, which wouldn't be uncommon,

as, as much as it's not uncommon

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for many of you who are listening.

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But you do get that sort of hangover,

that many of you might have in terms

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of not seeing any harm in things that

are actually harmful in many ways.

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Dash.

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I for example, these aren't harmful

to anybody else, but myself, for

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example, I still can't bring myself

to eating most pork products.

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I find that very difficult.

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And, There's no other reason other

than the fact that for the first.

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14 years of my life, when I did believe

in the faith that I was being raised in,

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that pork was seen as dirty and bad food.

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And I remember, I actually even remember.

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And this is how rooted this

sort of stuff is in me.

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I remember the first time I ate

a pork sausage and I planned it.

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I was living in Galway at the time I was

away from home and I was at, I don't even

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know why I was there because I believe

it was some GAA event and I was in

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goalie on my own, and I saw a big plate.

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A pork sausage is he doesn't know

what this cocktail sausages like.

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And I just really wants to try one.

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I really wanted to do this.

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It was almost like this kind of

In fact, I didn't have a ceremony

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where I this is where I was finally

going to, whip off the last shackles

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of the faith I was raised in.

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And I remember eating.

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sausage and going through it.

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I know that sounds very

trite, but there's.

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But, you probably recognize a lot of

this in yourself, maybe in Catholicism

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that for example, you're standing or

you're sitting in a church in your

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finery or you've decorated your house

and your child is going up to an alter

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in a sort of a mini in a communion dress.

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And maybe you see.

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What am I doing here?

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Why am I going through with this?

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You might have that thought.

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Of what am I doing this for?

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And, the sort of almost vulgarity at

potentially of it, or maybe you don't.

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And so on.

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I'm not, I'm trying to be there's many

Catholics who are very happy with their

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religion and absolutely that, I'm not

saying what you're doing is wrong.

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It's just some of you who may

have left the religiosity of your

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religion behind and are still going

around thoughtlessly doing a Shanta.

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I'm not referencing anyone in

particular there, but there was an

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article at this week, in the Irish

times from Sean Moncrief who was going

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through his fourth child's communion.

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And seems to thought with the doers,

without thinking of the potential harm

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that's causing to children, that might be

in his daughter's class, who were sitting

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at the back of classrooms for half the

year, while his child was going through.

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I suppose what he doesn't even

take seriously as a religion.

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Both.

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The reason I'm telling you all

this is background is one of the

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things I suppose that was, I suppose

I know we'll call it harmful.

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Was the fact that in my school

I would have learned I remember

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learning about Zionism as a

concept from a very early age.

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And even growing up, I would have been,

Sent to, youth groups in Ardennes that

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would essentially, be Zionist groups,

the youth organization being one.

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I remember.

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I know that I would have had to.

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There would have been like the way you

get trocars or boxes in your school,

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we would have had a JNF box where

you would raise money to plant trees.

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In his order, we were told

that was what it was for.

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I don't I'm sure.

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I'm sure there's no, there's no.dot.

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Smart.

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It was four, but a lot of like subtle sort

of stuff that you probably do yourself.

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The truck or a box, is to help the

poor, but it is also to, as a missionary

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thing where you're also, get going

out of town, there's missionaries out

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there, convincing people to believe

in Jesus Christ and things like that.

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I would have had all that.

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And I would have learned the

history of the state of Israel.

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And it, the struggle for that land.

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Because obviously from biblical times

if you believe in those biblical

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times, that land has had many owners.

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Many people in control of it and

to do many fights because obviously

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a lot of that land is seen by many

symmetric religions as an older,

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a smidget religions, a holy land.

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Do you know, Jerusalem Nazareth

and many other places that

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you probably know quite well.

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From if you've studied

the Bible and I suppose.

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I would never have heard.

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The Palestinian side of the story.

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And that's what I suppose

I want to get Ash here.

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And I haven't really, in some ways

you, when you have when you grow up

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pungy, you try and learn a little

bit about the the situation, the

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conflict, the wars, and that you.

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You have the freedom to look at it from a

different perspective than from, and I've

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spent I've I suppose I've spent the last

few years exploring the Palestinian story.

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And the Nakba, as I said, I'd

never heard that word before.

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And I've listened to Palestinian voices.

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I've listened to Jewish voices who would

have sympathies with the Palestinian

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because, and I've obviously listened and.

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I've listened to all my life.

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To the Zionists and.

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Sort of state of affairs and have

come, to the conclusion that most

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Irish people, have come to that.

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You know that.

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The current war as it

stands at the moment.

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Is absolutely a complete

mess and all we are seeing.

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I'm what I am seeing is we have no

good guys In charge here, we have a

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very right wing Israeli government that

if it wasn't the state of Israel, we

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would be absolutely calling out for

human rights, abuses and war crimes.

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And just because it is the

state of Israel, I believe

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that isn't being called out.

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And on the other side, we have

a group Hamas who are no better.

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A, again, a group of people

who want to destroy peop.

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A nation And also we're religion and,

they're part of, and I'll go into this

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a little bit more about at their aims.

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And then you have innocent people.

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Being killed.

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Absolutely.

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Just for no other reason

because of where they are.

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In this world on this map.

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And it's not okay.

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And, I feel.

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I feel I have nothing much to offer

if this was a beach, what I'm about to

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offer isn't even worth a grain of sand.

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And I want to make sure that I say

that because all I am is just some.

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Some guy in front of a microphone who

knows nothing really, who knows nothing.

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And I think a lot of us, are in that

boat and we're in that brackish.

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And we have access to an international

where we can state opinions.

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And this is just one other.

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And I suppose what I would say to

you is the only thing you should

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take maybe a little bit seriously

from what I'm about to say is maybe

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just as a, as another voice in this,

in the many voices that are there.

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But more importantly, the resources.

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Done.

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I'm hoping that I might share

with you because as teachers.

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I do feel we have a responsibility.

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Two.

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Look.

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At humanitarianism human rights.

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War.

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Even with children who are

very young, And explore.

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Y war is never a good thing, or

even acceptable in many ways.

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And how do we explore that concept?

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How do we explore the humanity or

the lack of humanity when it comes to

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war and in particular, in this war?

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Where I think it's slightly different.

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Let's say to the Russia Ukraine conflict,

where there's very much an agreement that

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there's good guys and bad guys in this.

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Whereas with Israel.

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And Gaza.

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There is by, obviously many people will

say there's good guys and bad guys.

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In his book in some ways, this

is slightly different because not

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everybody there isn't a collective

or a universal agreements that Israel

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are bad guys and Gaza, the good guys.

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Some people will have the opposite view.

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And then some people have probably,

maybe might have my view, which is sash.

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The leadership in both comps is.

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Is horrendous and and shocking and things

need to stop because they won't, and

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I don't know how it's going to stop.

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If I knew that I don't

think I'd have this job.

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But then in any way, So why now?

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Why am I speaking now?

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And in some ways is this.

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Is it.

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I think it really came from Michael D.

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Higgins.

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A couple of weeks ago, who basically

came out to talk about the war in Gaza.

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And the fact that, a lot of

people are saying, There's a.

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A lot of Jewish people saying

they're feeling afraid.

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Of.

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Being in Ireland now, because

they're saying there's a growing

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anti-Semitism in Ireland.

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And Michael D.

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Higgins said there is no

antisemitism in Ireland.

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There is absolutely no

antisemitism in Ireland.

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And I just want to just share a

few tweets that I've been getting.

252

In the last few weeks I grew up

in Ireland now really rarely if

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ever having any antisemitism.

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At all, where people would use

my ethnicity, which is Jewish.

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And to say, to.

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I suppose be racist towards me.

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Very rarely as I say, often joke

when I in the summer, when I tan a

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little more easily than most Irish

people that as a teenager at some

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summers, I'll be shouted across the

road to go back to my own country.

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And I always was very happy to

reply in a, in my albeit posh

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Irish Jackson's at, it was an Irish

Jackson that I was already in.

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In my home country and every so

often there might be a little

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bit of a thing that would happen.

264

But in the last, A few months I'm

on a weekly basis getting messages

265

which are clearly antisemitic.

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There's just a few of them on the screen.

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If you if you're watching it on YouTube.

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And some of them are.

269

Very interested, like jus detected being,

two words that re were difficult to read.

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And just two to two words on.

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It's interesting, but then the

other one that's there that's

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made me may make the decision to

do this was as so condescending.

273

This is from someone called a.

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Younger.

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So condescending because

I dunno what I said.

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I just, I was speaking about

multi-denominational schools, which

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I will be again in a few minutes.

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That I'm so dog condescending and

don't you have Arab children to murder.

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It was the question that I was asked and.

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I just thought look.

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There is that there is this correlation.

282

And yes, maybe.

283

Maybe I should have spoken up earlier

in this or said something earlier,

284

but I just didn't see the point of it.

285

And just with this, I said, look.

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The very small.

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Kind of number of people

that might listen to this.

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Maybe they ask those questions themselves.

289

I noticed, I would imagine

that if I wasn't Jewish and I

290

knew someone who was Jewish.

291

The first question I'd like to

ask them was what do you think

292

is, what do you think about the

Israeli Palestinian situation?

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And people have asked me that,

when they see me and I tell them.

294

Exactly what I've told you there.

295

And I think I don't speak for

the Jewish community by any

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stretch of the imagination.

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And in fact, I imagine I

do exactly the opposite.

298

But I'm one voice.

299

As I said, and I suppose that's

what I wanted to talk to you about.

300

I've written about president

Higgins and thinking about

301

no antisemitism in Ardennes.

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And I just wanted to and essentially you

can read a little bit more on, on those.

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On that, if you want to and I've put

some links to other areas where there is

304

anti-Semitism, if you're looking along,

you'll probably see some imagery there.

305

Dasha might give you, cause for

concern, particularly the one I'm

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hovering on about there, which

is images of Jewish people in.

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Fairly derogatory memes or

whatever you might call them.

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Abbott, also some other examples of

people who have got to talk to people

309

who look Jewish in some ways, which

is interesting without being Jewish.

310

So I thought that was something

worth talking about John.

311

I know I've been talking quite a bit.

312

I don't have a lot to cover, but

I do want to talk about Israel.

313

And I'm going to go through an article.

314

I wrote on my medium

blog@simonmlewisdotmedium.com.

315

About Israel, which has had

some small amount of a reaction.

316

And.

317

At the cooks that this is bad things

happen when good people do nothing.

318

This is something one lesson

I was taught in school.

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The one.

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Maybe.

321

W in Ari, Google, a thing that you

could teach to a Jewish kid in a

322

Jewish school, because this was in

the context of the Holocaust that.

323

And I remember when I was very young.

324

In fact, I remember it was senior infants

when I first learned about the Holocaust.

325

I dunno, people would

say that's appropriate.

326

But I remember, and I've

actually written some over.

327

I actually wrote a poem.

328

Called six white candles.

329

A number of years ago about my experience

of being taught about the Holocaust and

330

how weird that was for a six-year-old

to learn about this death and 6 million

331

people being killed because they were

Jewish and in a way it was there.

332

And this is taught to me, as I said,

this was taught to me in a way to

333

basically teach me to be afraid.

334

And it's something I think.

335

I could be wrong on this now, but a lot of

Jewish people spend a lot of their lives

336

afraid that this is going to happen again.

337

And.

338

And up being just for being Jewish.

339

You should be afraid.

340

And I remember through

the course of my life.

341

I I remember going to Israel.

342

To represent Ireland

in the Jewish Olympics.

343

That is a thing.

344

And I remember being,

really interested in that.

345

The main question I was asked

when I was in Israel is there a

346

lot of antisemitism in Ireland?

347

The did this sort of obsession that people

are antisemitic amongst, In Israel or

348

anywhere you go and do you experience

a lot of antisemitism and it is an

349

interesting thing to me was the question.

350

And and it's all down obviously to

do with the Holocaust and so on.

351

And.

352

I guess I grew up in

a very different time.

353

When I was more conscious of Israel

as a teenager, A much more peaceful

354

time and I could be wrong on this.

355

Again, remember I was only

getting one side of the story.

356

But I grew up in Israel with Yitzhak Rabin

as the Theater of Israel at the labor

357

party and more liberal form of Zionism.

358

If such a thing exists where

under was talk of a two-state

359

solution, peaceful talks and gets

our Caribbean was assassinated by

360

a very right-wing Jewish person.

361

And.

362

At that time I've learned since that you

had a very, a younger Benjamin Netanyahu.

363

Stoking the flames of, this.

364

It's idea dash Benjamin

Netanyahu was actually going

365

against this form of Zionism.

366

That is now that we now know in the

21st century, that's very right wing,

367

aggressive Zionism, where we were,

where Israel is now a nation state.

368

I think my last.

369

Last kind of, I suppose.

370

Bit of support or whatever that would be.

371

I don't even think support's the right

372

when they introduced the nation state law.

373

And I'll talk about that in a second, but

I do want to say that when people speak to

374

me about the Israeli Palestinian conflict

and how I feel as someone who's raised

375

in the Jewish faith, but also as an Irish

person given the overwhelming support of

376

Palestinian stage in this country, they

often ask me if I feel safe anymore.

377

And I just want to say.

378

That I recognize the irony of that

questioning because my safety.

379

Is overwhelming me overwhelmingly at

dwarfed when compared to families.

380

Living.

381

In fear for their lives every

single minute of every single day.

382

In.

383

Gaza, it's, so I want to point that

out before this becomes a kind of

384

a, oh, I feel unsafe kind of thing.

385

I know there's thousands and thousands

of families, tens of thousands,

386

hundreds of thousands of families

that may never feel safe again.

387

And I just want to say that Basically,

I, as I said, I receive now at least

388

one antisemitic remarks a week.

389

Online Which I never did before the

October 7th war that started and, as

390

much as it makes me feel less safe.

391

I don't feel unsafe.

392

I think I've had to wonder what is

it that makes me feel less safe.

393

Let's say, because it's not pleasant

getting onto symmetrical marks.

394

By any stretch of imagination,

it's never good for your ethnicity.

395

To be to be pointed out.

396

Or threatened or to feel that

it's being threatened and to

397

be looking over your shoulder.

398

But my entire blame is actually lies

with the Israeli government here.

399

Because it's not Hamas that are

making me feel safe or unsafe.

400

And to be honest, here in Ireland

and Israeli Jews might say.

401

That's.

402

They feel offended by me saying that,

but as an Irish person living in Ireland

403

and as a, as someone from a Jewish

ethnicity, my lack of safety is lies.

404

With the Israeli government

who are relentlessly murdering

405

thousands of people, supposedly.

406

In my name.

407

And then it's not my name.

408

They have single-handedly turned

a terrorist group, Hamas who are a

409

terrorist group that nobody would

have supported a few years ago into

410

some legitimate revolutionaries.

411

If you look at Hamas charter this

412

the day of children's will not come

about until Muslims fight the Jews.

413

When the Jew will hide behind

stones and trees, the stones

414

and trees will say, oh, Muslims.

415

There is a Jew behind

me come and kill him.

416

Only the banter that goes on, but.

417

You know it in that charter, this is

the Hamas charter, which hasn't changed.

418

They mentioned Israel quite a bit and

how it should be destructed and they

419

don't recognize it, but it also in

12 occasions, mentions Jews, people

420

with the ethnicity of Jewishness.

421

It's not.

422

As David Baddiel has said in his book

that even though he doesn't believe in God

423

much like me, he would be still tomorrow.

424

If the Castano came along,

he would be murdered.

425

Much like I would be.

426

And this is, I suppose where the fear

is that we know that's happening.

427

But the only reason I suppose the

fear is because Hamas are not a threat

428

to me in Ireland is because of what

Israel is doing to rise, Hamas up

429

as a legitimate organization who.

430

Quite bluntly.

431

W R would make want to wipe out.

432

Anyone who is Jewish.

433

And to me in this war, As I

said, there's no goodies bodies.

434

There's simply victims.

435

And unfortunately, what I want

to press is a nation of people.

436

One can only expect that nation to rise

up, and we know that from our own history.

437

I share Arden's recognition

with the state of Palestine.

438

We need at the moment, a

two state solution, very

439

much like what we have here.

440

And I hope it will lead to convincing

more powerful nations who actually

441

have some sort of influence.

442

It's interesting art and it's like

me here in a way where nothing.

443

Israelis don't care what

Irish people think really.

444

And do you know.

445

And the same way as is I

don't, no one cares what I say.

446

But I guess if everybody is speaking

agents some different way the hope

447

is that you convince more powerful

people, more powerful nations to

448

support some sort of peaceful outcome

to this artsy devastating crisis.

449

Need to remember though

the piece won't happen.

450

Whether it's Netanyahu's

government who are in charge

451

or whether Hamas are in charge.

452

We need to ensure that the right people

are in charge of this is coming on.

453

Now a lot of people, and I suppose the

point of this really in a way, and this

454

is going to be a bit of a longer episode

than usual, but as it looks at things.

455

Because I've a lot to say, a lot of

people might ask me about my own opinion

456

and they, and you'll hear this yourself.

457

If you're someone who's out of

Palestinian, solid Darcy March, or

458

your, a lot of people who will be.

459

Pro Israel in an inverted comments.

460

Would've asked me this,

ask me the same questions.

461

That I have to ask myself.

462

I always think it's important.

463

To ask questions, no matter

how uncomfortable they are.

464

And one of the questions

I'm asked is why Israel?

465

Why is the world, why is everybody in art?

466

And just focusing on

Israel, there's genocides.

467

The argument is basically there's

genocides and wars and humanitarian

468

crises happening all over the world.

469

I just learned over the weekend of,

loads and loads of other like genocides

470

that are happening before our eyes

that I'd never even knew were happening

471

Brazil, for example a journalist, I

obviously listened to over the weekend

472

and to 60,000 black Brazilians murdered

every year in the state of Brazil.

473

I had no idea.

474

It's absolutely nuts to hear that.

475

But all these things are

happening over the world.

476

So why are the, why are you Irish?

477

Why are you Irish?

478

They'd say why?

479

And the politicians, the

media only focusing on Israel.

480

And they follow.

481

And the logic really from the point of

question is it's downtown to Semitism, but

482

yeah, Ireland is an anti-Semitic country.

483

Now I know it isn't.

484

But at the same time, I know.

485

Antisemitism exists in the same

way as racism exists in the same

486

way as anti migrant center phobia

exists, and we know it exists.

487

I'm recording this.

488

I said local elections are

unfolding and we're seeing.

489

And the rise.

490

Are people who are anti migrant getting

elected and they are getting elected.

491

I know a lot of them aren't, but some

are, I'm not quite as scary notion.

492

But anyway, back to why only Israel,

surely it's antisemitic, Baba, and,

493

And they say they give examples.

494

They say Yemen, China, South Sudan,

Ethiopia, Nigeria, Iran, Afghanistan,

495

and they list countries where there

are absolutely massacres, humanitarian

496

crises, genocides happening.

497

And we hear very little

of them and people.

498

Even point out about the

T shock, for example.

499

It wasn't Miele Martin or

Leah Recart at the time.

500

I think it was the red car at

the time he met when the Chinese

501

premier came over to Argentina.

502

And she shook his hand.

503

And what is this saying when they're, when

the Chinese are killing groups of people

504

in China because of their ethnicity.

505

We also have the Russian invasion of

Ukraine going on with very little,

506

the focus on that seems to have

waned quite a bit because of Israel.

507

And in fact, there's a growing animosity

from some of these xenophobia people

508

to Ukrainian refugees in our tanks

to that growing right wing rhetoric.

509

That's infecting us in this islands.

510

I though Joan January to believe

that Arden stance against Israel.

511

As opposed to the other countries

has anything to do with Judaism.

512

Israel supposed to be a Western democracy.

513

Whereas the others aren't I listed

some of those countries there.

514

You don't ever look at those

as Western democracies.

515

So it's only natural.

516

I feel when a Western democracy behaves,

unlike a Western democracy, it's only

517

natural that we hold them to a higher

account than we would to a country

518

that is an autocracy or an autocracy.

519

And I still think in art.

520

And then I will see this.

521

And Angie, you hear this on the radio,

particularly now, as we're doing the

522

local elections and European actions,

we still consider democracy to be

523

one of the most important things that

we have in our Western civilization.

524

And when it's being abused in the way

that it currently is by Israel, we stand

525

against it more strongly than we would.

526

And whether that's a Christian stage

and Muslim state or a Jewish stage, if

527

they state that they are democracies,

they need to behave like democracies.

528

In my view, And I, so I hear

many Irish people discussing.

529

Apartheid.

530

As well.

531

So this is another thing

I hear Irish people.

532

Edwin speaking about Israel and they

talk about apartheid free zones and they

533

talk about, we need BDS, we need all this

sort of stuff and there, and they asked

534

me, and people talk to me about this.

535

A very, again, when they're

at, when they're happy enough

536

to talk to me about it.

537

And they're absolutely correct.

538

And I don't know when they

say it's an apartheid.

539

An apartheid stage where they

know when it became an apartheid

540

zone and an apartheid country.

541

And effectively.

542

It became officially an apartheid

543

nation state laws, which effectively

makes all people in Israel who are

544

not Jewish second class citizens.

545

This is a nation state laws

546

It was the last straw I

ever had for any sort of.

547

Sympathy.

548

Or affiliation I had for an Israeli

state, for the Zionist calls,

549

if you want to call it a cause.

550

And in my view, no country, no matter

who they are should favor any citizen.

551

Anymore than any other citizen.

552

On the basis of any of the human

rights that they would have.

553

So there's in RND we have nine

grinds for discrimination.

554

And if anyone.

555

Is treated differently because

of one of those rights that is

556

wrong, no matter what and Israel.

557

Is treats.

558

Anyway, it's basically said that

there is a Jewish stage on the Jewish

559

people are treated more favorably

than other people and that's wrong

560

by any stretch of imagination.

561

And it is a par thought because

it treats people on equally on

562

the basis of their religion.

563

And it's why I continuously

campaign against our own apartheid

564

in our primary education system.

565

And because we have one and I

understand that people only really

566

care about apartheid systems when

people are being killed and murdered,

567

but in part fight system where

citizens are treated differently

568

because of their ethnicity or race.

569

Doesn't have to become intolerable

just when people are killed.

570

Our primary education system is

an apartheid one where in the vast

571

majority of cases, I know people

don't like to hear the word apartheid

572

when we're talking about a primary

education, isn't the same way.

573

They don't like me saying indoctrination.

574

In fact, lots of people switch off.

575

When they say, when I say we have

an indoctrination system in our

576

educations, they prefer faith

formation, It, but words matter.

577

And and this is why people

don't like it in the same way.

578

As when I say skills, aren't inclusive.

579

People jar with dosh

because it's a criticism.

580

And so nobody likes to be criticized, but.

581

Just looking at the definition of

the word apartheid it's when you

582

treat people equally because of their

culture, their faith, their race,

583

their body, and things like that.

584

So in our primary education system,

which is an apartheid one, the vast

585

majority of cases of skills, one faith

is promoted over all others in 96% of

586

schools in the same way as an Israel, that

Jews are promote Jewishness is promoted

587

over all other fates in its state.

588

And we dress it up with the same

propaganda that Israel uses.

589

Users announcing that we're inclusive

because we allow children of all

590

fades or none into our schools.

591

Israel will say that they are

in a democracy they're inclusive

592

because they allow, they you hear

them saying 20% of the Knesset,

593

the did the governments are Arabs.

594

They're allowed into the the Knesset into

the door, their equivalent of the door.

595

But doesn't mean they're treated equally.

596

No.

597

Is the answer.

598

These to the children in our schools

are expected either except the doctrine

599

being taught in our schools or to sit at

the backs of classrooms as second class

600

citizens in their own local schools.

601

We, we've the app.

602

So I'm going to give it,

move on to another example.

603

Our primary teachers unit,

the ITO has a Palestinian

604

solidarity group in the rightly.

605

So I absolutely support that, but

they're asking, they were asking

606

their members to have a solidarity

day in their schools on 5th of June.

607

Then they asked schools to designate

themselves apartheid free zones.

608

You can see how I feel.

609

That's quite ironic.

610

I can imagine.

611

People.

612

Out there most Irish primary

school teachers would have made

613

board of, whether they did it or

didn't do it on the 5th of June.

614

They probably didn't think that they

may very well be teaching in a parfait

615

and in an apartheid system themselves.

616

Again, I know.

617

People will probably be very cross with

me for saying that because, obviously,

618

no one's been killed in our schools.

619

No, one's being a ho no.

620

I wouldn't say I wouldn't go as far

as saying no one's being harmed.

621

People are being harmed, but no

one's been harmed in the same way

622

as obviously Palestinian kids and

Palestinian people are being, but

623

it doesn't mean it isn't apartheid.

624

And I just, I think it's

important to point things out.

625

I can't not say that, but.

626

As I'm saying it.

627

I'm doing something that I'm advising

against now, which is politicizing things,

628

politicizing schools, it's very dangerous.

629

And we try, I think we tend

to avoid it in our, and we try

630

to not politicize schools and.

631

I think.

632

At schools.

633

We need to teach children about politics.

634

We need to teach children about injustice.

635

We need to teach children about

human rights, but we also need to

636

be very careful when we're doing it.

637

So for example, When we had the

Russian invasion of Ukraine.

638

We advise strongly.

639

And I remember this very clearly.

640

I'm sure some of you do

is to always remember.

641

That in schools, in our schools,

we had Russian children.

642

And they need to be as protected as

our Ukrainian children who were also

643

amongst us and also the new Ukrainian

children who were fleeing this war.

644

And in fact.

645

Over the last 20 years, Irish schools

or more have been welcoming refugees

646

from all countries and asylum

seekers from all over the world.

647

And it's important to ensure that all

children are protected from alienation.

648

And it's an Israeli children

have no part in this war no

649

more than the Russian children.

650

How did the Ukraine and it's

incumbent that we don't forget that

651

we have to make sure that we don't.

652

Alienate A nation of people because

of the acts of their governments.

653

We don't, if you have any Burmese students

in your school, you don't treat them,

654

you don't treat them any differently.

655

Did I say to Rohingya and children, if

you have any of the Tamil kids in true.

656

Untrue and Sri Lankan kids, you don't

treat, you, we need to treat our children.

657

It's not their fault that

there's a war going on.

658

We need to remember that we need to, we

don't avoid discussing the horrors of war,

659

but we need to remember that war is much

more complicated than goodies and bodies.

660

And I think that's the message

I want to bring to this.

661

There were many good Germans

during the second world war that

662

tried against hope to help Jewish

people, escape Europe to safety.

663

There are many Israelis and Jews

who are demanding that the war.

664

War in Palestine stops.

665

As when it comes to any ongoing

war in schools, we need to look

666

at solutions not to take sides.

667

And with that in mind and I'm

sorry, this episode has gone much

668

longer than it usually would.

669

Get some solutions and if you're on

YouTube there right now, you'll see

670

some of these solutions and I'll

just go through them very quickly.

671

But I'm going to put links into my

show notes so that you can also.

672

Be able to use them if you like.

673

There's.

674

Really good.

675

Really good resources out

there for teaching about war.

676

With a focus on Palestine and

Israel and Gaza and how that works.

677

And I'm including our Irish resources

as well as some international resources.

678

And the first one I'm going to show is one

that's already six months old and it's a

679

three-point guide to the conflict in Gaza.

680

And it's the first place you should look

as a guide and it's really relevant.

681

And I also suggested you look at TRO CRA.

682

CRA TRO CRA spent a lot of time.

683

And one of their things, one of their

main things I wouldn't normally recommend

684

chakra because of, I suppose I have

an issue with their denominational

685

aspect, but their scooters sources

are January very are excellent.

686

And the tree of justice is a fantastic

resource, which I'd really recommend.

687

And trucker had to be very careful with

how they presented their resources.

688

Because again, they have the

same dilemma that we have of

689

they're not allowed to take sides.

690

And I think it's very useful at that.

691

That resource is very useful.

692

I know their Irish resource is from

the national youth council of Ireland,

693

which discusses war generally with

young people, which you can have a

694

look at and then moving on at the

British red cross, have a really good

695

resource about your humanitarian work.

696

And how you learn about the work

that they're doing in Israel and

697

Palestine, it's very well done.

698

And then another one

another Catholic agency.

699

And I, this is it's interesting to

me that I'm recommending catholic

700

agencies are as good resources.

701

As I said, there's nothing is ever 100%.

702

Black and whites, a religion can be used.

703

It can be a force for good.

704

And I often say this and this is a good

UK resource from a Catholic agency.

705

Again, resources, that'd be very

good for fifth and sixth class,

706

which is a good age maybe to cover.

707

This finally I think we have another UK

resource from D E C S Y S from Yorkshire.

708

And they've come up with some really

good lesson plans and teaching resources

709

might be good for senior classes as well.

710

However.

711

I would suggest.

712

That the best thing you can probably

do is outside of your classroom.

713

Attends the protests.

714

And the solidarity marches I

campaign for peace in the region.

715

I know it's a small thing to do, but get

out and stand with like-minded people.

716

Stop this atrocity.

717

And be there and stand there

and make sure you're there.

718

But not only that put your hands in

your pockets, if of all the things

719

you could possibly do, put your hand

in your pocket and donate to those

720

humanitarian causes where real health can

be offered to real people who need your.

721

You need that money to survive in

awful conditions, give them your

722

money and make sure you do that.

723

There's no point in throwing up stuff

on Instagram or throwing stuff on

724

social media about, and all the rest

of it without doing any of that, by

725

all means, put stuff on Instagram.

726

But put your hands in your pocket

as well, because we need to

727

learn, you also need to learn.

728

About the history of how he

got to this terrible place.

729

Don't simplify this.

730

This is not a simple war.

731

This isn't going to end.

732

Just if Israel stop killing people, this

is a deep rooted learn about the history

733

of how Zionism has now been weaponized

by very bad people to try and legitimate.

734

Legitimize the massacre of thousands

and thousands of people, and try to

735

help people understand that Zionism

and Judaism are not the same thing.

736

Help people understand that Hamas

and Palestine are not the same thing.

737

There are enough victims in this

war without making correlations

738

that will cause even more harm.

739

And I guess.

740

That's where I might stop when I'm

talking about Israel, I hadn't expected

741

to go on for so long and I'm sorry.

742

If some of it was difficult to listen to.

743

And do you know what.

744

As I said it is not even a

grain of sand on the beach of.

745

Opinion.

746

It is an opinion.

747

From someone.

748

Who's in the system in some way.

749

I might have.

750

I know slightly different.

751

Views, but not particularly

different either.

752

I hope the resources, if nothing else

are useful to you, I do want to move on.

753

A to.

754

I guess later stories under, in

some ways, and I am going to move

755

computers, something completely

different as Monte Python would say.

756

Perhaps it deserves an

episode in itself, which does.

757

And I am moving on to a completely

light but very important subject

758

for teachers because all this is

very heavy and teaching has become

759

very difficult over the last

number of years in particular with.

760

Additional needs are causing a huge

number of extra work for teachers at

761

behavior in schools has become very

difficult since COVID in lots of ways.

762

Dealing with conflict in January and

it's causing a lot of teachers to

763

leave the profession where we are.

764

I CA I do go on.

765

A lot of by people who are

leaving the professional.

766

W who wouldn't have necessarily done.

767

So the job of a teacher has become very

difficult and you what makes it worse for

768

me sometimes is people say, you need to

look after your wellbeing without telling

769

him how to look after your wellbeing.

770

So I've interviewed a number of

people over the last number of

771

years around wellbeing for teachers.

772

But I have.

773

Often focused, on I.

774

This is the main thing with the

focusing on wellbeing of children,

775

which is obviously very important.

776

What about teachers?

777

And I was very lucky to come across party

Moore, who is a teacher, coach, teacher.

778

And he runs the teachers

coach on Instagram.

779

Where he is actually interested

in helping teachers to look

780

after their own wellbeing.

781

And I did a great, really good

interview, which I've posted online.

782

It's on the on show.

783

You can find it on onshore.

784

Nash on my interviews

page is my 21st interview.

785

And I talked to potty more about teacher

wellbeing, but teacher fitness, and

786

about being the best you can be being

in this in a state of health, where

787

you can be the best teacher you can be.

788

And I'll just play a short

clip of that interview.

789

And now we're about a minute

and a half where I ask.

790

Potty, what can teachers actually do?

791

To help with their own wellbeing.

792

I'm going to play that.

793

It's about a minute of it, but if you

want to hear the full episode and I really

794

recommend you do go on to onshore Nash.

795

And have a listen it's it's worth,

it's definitely worth your while.

796

Speaker: I think that they're going

to need to know number one, how to be

797

able to put strong boundaries in place,

how to be able to have a better work

798

life balance so that they're not like

we said earlier, burning the candle

799

on both ends, bringing work home with

them, and then showing up on maybe 30

800

to 40 percent battery at all times.

801

They need to be, they need to be taught

how to be able to create energy, how to

802

be able to manage their energy so that

they're going to be able to show at

803

their best as a leader for their class.

804

For their students, even

for their colleague.

805

I think that would be one, one

thing that I would start with.

806

Secondly, I think what teachers need

is to be taught how to be able to have

807

more helpful co op mechanisms in place.

808

I think the job itself, as we said

earlier, it's quite demanding, both

809

physically, mentally and emotionally.

810

And I feel that if you're not

811

If you're not sure how to be able

to re energize yourself physically,

812

mentally, and emotionally, it's

going to be very hard for you to give

813

back at your very best in as well.

814

And I think that without that

knowledge, it's too easy to then turn

815

to the unhelpful coping mechanisms.

816

And that's why so many people that we

deal with there, they struggle a lot

817

with snacking, with comfort eating.

818

Some people might even turn to alcohol

to help themselves suit because

819

they don't know any better way of

helping to deal with that stress.

820

Yeah.

821

So I think that.

822

Equipping teachers with strategies, with

skills of how to be able to overcome these

823

would enable them to be able to show up in

824

Speaker 2: a much better,

in a much better way.

825

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-2:

So from I hope you enjoyed that interview.

826

And I I recommend us to say

listen to the full thing.

827

And I just wanted to very briefly,

because I can see where nearly an hour

828

into this episode, but I re I, as I

said, I really wanted to tackle the

829

question and the questions that have

been asked of me about Gaza and so on.

830

And I said, it's something I've

wanted to do for a while and

831

never really found a way into it.

832

But I said, I have now, but.

833

Slightly linked.

834

Is in terms of I, as I said, I

argued that we have an apartheid.

835

Ah, primary education

system here in Ireland.

836

And I was very interested

in two things that came out.

837

I know I mentioned very briefly

at the first reading is.

838

The report that comes

out nearly every year.

839

And it's wonderful.

840

Wonderful to reapportion.

841

I go on about this.

842

I actually usually just summarize

the whole thing as a full episode,

843

but I'm actually going to give

it less than five minutes today.

844

Unfortunately.

845

But I'd really recommended you look at it.

846

It is at the children's lives, our

children's schools that I've study and

847

their report number seven has come out.

848

And this time it is about number

seven is about the sense of belonging.

849

Sorry, it's not about a sense of what I

talk about a lot of things, but one of

850

the things it's about is about belonging.

851

It's actually about wellbeing.

852

So it nearly ties in quite a lot

of what we're talking about today.

853

I like when that happens.

854

In, in, in my episodes of the stories,

all intertwined among each other and

855

they do talk about children's wellbeing.

856

And it's actually quite good.

857

If you read the report, it's

not as bad as we all think.

858

Now there are obviously problems, but

children in schools to feel safe and

859

that's really nice, but the chapter I

was really particularly interested in.

860

Was there sense of belonging

school belonging in to page 27.

861

And I mentioned this because.

862

One of the re.

863

One of the times in school where I feel.

864

Belonging really happens in the school

as when we all do something to gather.

865

Where the school community

comes together to celebrate.

866

At this time of the year, many of you

would be preparing to say goodbye to your

867

sixth costs and you may have a graduation

ceremony and all the school comes to

868

gather, to say goodbye and wish the six

cos good luck when they come into school.

869

And another time in the year where we

will come together might be a concert.

870

Around Christmas timer in wintertime.

871

At where the school comes together and

the community comes together to celebrate.

872

Being in school, in, in Catholic schools,

that's usually through a, or in Christian

873

schools, that's usually through a nativity

play or through a Christmas concert in

874

schools like mine and an educate together.

875

We would have a winter concert where

we maybe pick a theme and everyone

876

comes together for that theme.

877

We belong and the thing is, it's the

idea of belonging to a school community.

878

And I suppose I bought, I was

very interested in, and it's the

879

question, are you, I'm going to

leave hanging in a way, because

880

I've touched on it in the previous.

881

It, when I was talking about Israel,

Gaza and a, and an apartheid is

882

how to do all children belong.

883

When it comes to sacramental

time in Catholic schools.

884

And obviously the answer is no,

and I know a lot of schools will

885

do everything they can to make

children feel that they belong.

886

And I get this argument

from a lot of conflicts.

887

Principals who said, but we do, we,

we include families in the ceremony

888

where they could, they can go up

to the priest and get a blessing.

889

Or they can, they sing in the choir

or they're invited to the ceremony.

890

And the thing is, that's

all lovely and it's all.

891

And I can see the aspiration to try

and include and help children belong.

892

But they don't, they are.

893

They are not actually in the community.

894

They are visitors at this point.

895

And this is something that's really

important to me as a, as I, when

896

it comes to school and this is

a bit, and this is why I go on

897

so much about this all the time.

898

No matter how much you try to make a child

feel that they belong in your school.

899

If the structures that are in place, and

these are not schools fault, but if the

900

structures are in place where only some.

901

Or even if most of the children are.

902

Are part of that community and you

were excluding even one child from

903

that community because of their

religion or because of their race

904

or because of their ethnicity.

905

Then we need to change the system

because you cannot have this

906

system where children don't belong.

907

And I was interested in the CSL study.

908

As to whether that came out,

when it came to school belonging.

909

As I have to say.

910

I was disappointed.

911

That it didn't, it's not in the report.

912

And I was so disappointed that I

contacted the CSL people on a presume

913

when my, if an email comes from me

To, to some organizations go, oh, no.

914

Oh, no, not him.

915

It's what's he going to do now?

916

And I just asked them and I said, look,

I love, I actually, I love the reports.

917

I'm always going on about

how brilliant they are.

918

I know.

919

I genuinely mean that, but I just

asked him, look, I was interested.

920

Did they get any feedback in terms

of second year, second class and

921

six costs and not idea belonging.

922

And they have said, look, yes,

they did get some feedback on us.

923

And they're hoping to be able to share

it, but obviously these reports can only.

924

Give so much.

925

And I think I would love, I suppose

I haven't read what those things

926

were, but they did assure me that

it did come up and I hope maybe

927

that will be shared at some point.

928

And when it is.

929

I'm looking forward to going through

it and reading it because I do think

930

that schools do a really good job.

931

Of trying to convince people that they do.

932

Make people feel that they belong in their

school communities, even when they don't.

933

And I feel, you have to be

hyper critical of a system.

934

Where you have.

935

And I bring this back to my Sean

Moncrief article, where you have someone

936

like Sean Moncrief, who in some ways

he ticks the no religion box in E.

937

He, this is what he says.

938

I take no religion in the census,

but all four of my children have

939

gone through the sacraments.

940

And he's very unapologetic for it.

941

In fact, he, sometimes he

celebrates that hypocrisy.

942

And he claims that the reason he does it

is because he feels he's not anti-Catholic

943

as if that's the reason he does it.

944

It's not that he's, I my, my question

mark, isn't about being an auntie.

945

I, for example, my child

didn't make the communion.

946

Not because I'm anti Catholic

and freight and parents on.

947

I'm far from anti-Catholic.

948

I, and, but the reason he didn't make his

sacraments was because he's not Catholic.

949

Simple as that.

950

As not because he's against

Catholicism or I'm against Catholicism.

951

It's because he's not Catholic and

no more than showing Moncrief kids.

952

Are probably not Catholic.

953

And he, in his article this year, he

said, That the priests made them think

954

about children all over the world who

are not belonging into their communities.

955

And so you referenced, without.

956

Saying exactly where it

was, but he referenced Gaza.

957

He referenced.

958

Ah, places outside of Ireland.

959

And I suppose the question I asked him,

or I am asking is what about the children

960

in his children's classrooms that also.

961

Are not belonging.

962

And it's the question

I asked to CSL as well.

963

And some will say to

me, put, look over time.

964

It will be fine.

965

It will be grand.

966

And look, we're having more and

more multi-denominational schools.

967

And that kind of leads

me to my final thought.

968

My final thing, which is a press

release from education equality.

969

Wonderful organization.

970

And as many people know the government are

971

And at this rate, they calculator, which

I thought was quite funny or not funny.

972

It's sad.

973

What year.

974

Got the rate that we've been going

since this says, since the plurism

975

patronage forum, what year would it be?

976

When we do have 400 skills and

foreign just goes, by the way,

977

is 12% of schools by no means.

978

Is this a quality.

979

But it will be, we will

all be dead long, dead.

980

In fact, our grandchildren may

be dead by the time happens.

981

What.

982

At this rate.

983

We will get to 400

984

That's the year.

985

At that rate and it's not good enough.

986

And I guess the message I

have for this episode is.

987

There's a lot of stuff in this world.

988

That isn't good enough.

989

It's not good enough.

990

That.

991

We have a war going on.

992

Where we have.

993

Terrible people.

994

Doing terrible things.

995

To innocent people.

996

And it filters down to this

whole idea of bad things happen

997

when good people do nothing.

998

And we need to look at Israel, Palestine,

we need to look at ourselves as teachers.

999

In Ireland, we need to look at ourselves.

00:49:59,009 --> 00:50:00,569

We need to look at what we do here.

00:50:00,659 --> 00:50:01,949

We need to look at what we do.

00:50:02,279 --> 00:50:02,849

Everywhere.

00:50:02,969 --> 00:50:08,039

And we need to make sure that we do

something more than tokenism, more than

00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:10,229

ignoring the bad things that are going on.

00:50:10,649 --> 00:50:12,569

And we do something about them.

00:50:12,989 --> 00:50:15,209

I'm not saying what I'm doing

is doing anything particularly.

00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:16,649

This is all I have.

00:50:16,919 --> 00:50:18,239

Maybe this is what I can do.

00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:19,349

I don't know if it's.

00:50:19,979 --> 00:50:22,469

Again, I don't think it's, I don't

think it's very much, as I said,

00:50:22,469 --> 00:50:26,009

it's not even a grain of sand on the

beach, but it's not nothing either.

00:50:26,579 --> 00:50:28,079

So look with that in mind.

00:50:28,259 --> 00:50:29,669

I wish you all the very best.

00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:31,419

I hope this has been of use to you.

00:50:31,629 --> 00:50:34,269

And maybe this is maybe one

of my more useful episodes.

00:50:34,269 --> 00:50:35,259

It's not just giving out.

00:50:35,259 --> 00:50:38,829

It's not winging about, I haven't even

mentioned the minister for education.

00:50:38,859 --> 00:50:40,269

This episode boss.

00:50:40,539 --> 00:50:42,249

If I were the minister for education.

00:50:42,659 --> 00:50:43,169

I think.

00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:44,459

We could take a loss.

00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:47,189

From what's going on.

00:50:47,819 --> 00:50:49,649

In Arland in the world.

00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:52,289

And that we stand up for what's right.

00:50:52,439 --> 00:50:53,399

Whatever that might be.

00:50:53,849 --> 00:50:56,009

Thanks so much for

listening all the very best.

00:50:56,339 --> 00:50:56,789

Bye-bye.