Shownotes
Jesus is often seen as a religious figure, but are there lessons we can learn from Him about leadership and management?
International leadership coach Sharon Seivert joins Dan, Suzana, and Flavio for a conversation about Jesus' leadership style and insights we can gather for our day-to-day lives.
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Transcripts
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 38 of Spiritist
Dan Assisi:Conversations, where we sit down with friends and have great conversations about
Dan Assisi:everything from a Spiritist perspective.
Dan Assisi:My name is Dan Assisi, and today I am joined here by the Uncomparable Susana
Dan Assisi:Simoes and the ever happy Flavio Zanetti.
Dan Assisi:How are you guys doing?
Suzana Simões:Hey Dan.
Suzana Simões:Hey Dan.
Suzana Simões:Hey Flavio.
Suzana Simões:Good to see you guys.
Flavio Zanetti:Likewise.
Flavio Zanetti:Likewise.
Flavio Zanetti:Good to see everyone.
Dan Assisi:Yes, it's really great to see you guys.
Dan Assisi:We're in different parts of the planet today.
Dan Assisi:Flavio is in Italy.
Dan Assisi:Susana is holding the fort in the US for us.
Dan Assisi:I'm in the Bahamas.
Dan Assisi:And we're just stretching our spiritual wings today and, connecting
Dan Assisi:virtually from different places.
Dan Assisi:Very excited to see you guys.
Dan Assisi:It's been a while.
Dan Assisi:It's always reassuring and uplifting for me to have a conversation with you guys.
Dan Assisi:And today I hope we're going to have a great conversation.
Dan Assisi:But before we introduce our guest, I just want to remind folks who might
Dan Assisi:be watching this on different channels on the web that if you make your way
Dan Assisi:to the Spiritist Conversation YouTube or Facebook channels, that's the
Dan Assisi:best way for you to interact with us.
Dan Assisi:Sometimes because we broadcast to different places, we don't get to see all
Dan Assisi:the comments that you might be placing.
Dan Assisi:And so we're really happy to have your interaction, so feel free.
Dan Assisi:to come and interact with us.
Dan Assisi:We love being with you.
Dan Assisi:And if you're here, just drop us a comment.
Dan Assisi:Let us know where you're coming from and pop in your questions and be
Dan Assisi:part of the conversation as well.
Dan Assisi:So Zanna, Flavio, are you guys ready to dive into a
Dan Assisi:interesting and different topic
Flavio Zanetti:today?
Flavio Zanetti:Absolutely.
Flavio Zanetti:This is an interesting one.
Flavio Zanetti:I'm on it.
Flavio Zanetti:Yes.
Suzana Simões:Yes.
Suzana Simões:Yes.
Suzana Simões:I'm very excited to see what's going to come out of it.
Suzana Simões:And what can we take to our daily lives after this conversation?
Dan Assisi:Great.
Dan Assisi:So let's go ahead and bring Sharon.
Dan Assisi:Sharon, thanks for being with us.
Sharon Seivert:I feel like I've been invited to a party,
Sharon Seivert:a Friday night party here.
Flavio Zanetti:Welcome, Sharon.
Flavio Zanetti:It's good to see you.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, we're what you asked for sharing to be aware what you asked for.
Dan Assisi:That's all I'm gonna say.
Dan Assisi:But Sharon, we're really thrilled to have you here today.
Dan Assisi:Sharon has been who in contact with us for such a long time.
Dan Assisi:Now we've been talking about different ways of collaborating and
Dan Assisi:finding a way to get her voice here in Spiritist conversations too.
Dan Assisi:And I think this is a perfect episode for Sharon to come in and we'll let
Dan Assisi:her talk a little bit about herself.
Dan Assisi:But among other things, she's an international leadership coach people.
Dan Assisi:So to talk about leadership and Jesus, I think that would be great to have such
Dan Assisi:a wonderful feed perspective on this.
Dan Assisi:But Sharon, I won't do you justice.
Dan Assisi:Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Sharon Seivert:Okay, well, I am a member of the Boston Area Spiritist
Sharon Seivert:Center where I see Flavio on many occasions and Daniel and Susanna
Sharon Seivert:occasionally when you come to town.
Sharon Seivert:It's interesting how things have come full circle because it's my
Sharon Seivert:International leadership coaching that brought me to spiritism, which is
Sharon Seivert:that I had a just spectacular client by the name of Thais Moriyama from
Sharon Seivert:Brazil, who after we completed our work together and she decided where
Sharon Seivert:she wanted to go in her career and leadership herself that she sent me as
Sharon Seivert:a thank you all these spiritist books.
Sharon Seivert:And I Picked up the first one, which was, uh, Renunciation.
Sharon Seivert:I chose from the many books she sent me.
Sharon Seivert:She and her mother decided, actually, I've worn this as this is a gift from
Sharon Seivert:Thais and her mother of the Black Virgin who saved those fishermen in Brazil.
Sharon Seivert:And once I started reading Renunciation, I I just started one page after the
Sharon Seivert:other and could not stop reading.
Sharon Seivert:I read it just cover to cover.
Sharon Seivert:And I was, landing, 10 point Olympic, land in spiritism.
Sharon Seivert:And I have never looked back.
Sharon Seivert:That was about five years ago.
Sharon Seivert:So interestingly, we, I've come around, I've come to the circle here where
Sharon Seivert:we're talking about what brought me into spiritism in the first place.
Sharon Seivert:So I was thinking about that when I was coming in today, you know, this is.
Sharon Seivert:This is great how this has come around.
Dan Assisi:That is awesome.
Dan Assisi:That is fantastic.
Dan Assisi:This personal connection is something that I think many of us can attest to.
Dan Assisi:I think many people find spiritism through this personal connection with somebody
Dan Assisi:because let's be honest, spiritism is not as widely well known as different
Dan Assisi:philosophies or bodies of knowledge or even religions out there, right?
Sharon Seivert:Right.
Sharon Seivert:Yeah.
Sharon Seivert:Yeah.
Sharon Seivert:So it has been so that's why it's so exciting for me to be on
Sharon Seivert:this conversation today with you.
Sharon Seivert:I just you know, I'm so grateful for the thousands of things that
Sharon Seivert:Spiritism has given me and the perspectives it has given me.
Sharon Seivert:And actually when I was writing this last book Genesis helped
Sharon Seivert:me inform it and my studies with the Spiritist group helped me.
Sharon Seivert:You know, ask different questions.
Sharon Seivert:It's it's very integral to my life and my work.
Sharon Seivert:So it seems like you're an author as well?
Sharon Seivert:Yeah.
Sharon Seivert:Oh, yes.
Sharon Seivert:I am an author of a series of books.
Sharon Seivert:The most recent one is called The Superpower of Balanced
Sharon Seivert:Leadership in Unbalanced.
Sharon Seivert:So here we are.
Dan Assisi:A very appropriate title, a very appropriate title.
Sharon Seivert:In which people say a lot of, Amen, sister.
Sharon Seivert:Yes, here we are.
Sharon Seivert:Yes.
Dan Assisi:Great.
Dan Assisi:So, the reason why we wanted you here today, Sharon, besides the fact that
Dan Assisi:you're awesome is that, we were really trying to look at this incredible
Dan Assisi:figure, Jesus Christ, which, I personally think is often misunderstood or under
Dan Assisi:understood in many different ways.
Dan Assisi:We've made him to be a religious figure.
Dan Assisi:But in many different ways, there's so many wonderful lessons that we can take
Dan Assisi:from his leadership and how he handled different things and how he saw the
Dan Assisi:world, who he talked to, how he went about things, doing things that sometimes
Dan Assisi:I think that we don't notice because we put him in a small little box, right?
Dan Assisi:And and I thought it'd be great to have a conversation about his leadership
Dan Assisi:style, especially in this difficult times that we live in where we are having a
Dan Assisi:really tough time talking to each other.
Dan Assisi:Being kind to each other, accepting different perspectives
Dan Assisi:and different approaches.
Dan Assisi:I think that if we live out there today in the world, that's all we do.
Dan Assisi:I think we can agree with that piece.
Dan Assisi:And this is a topic that is really cool.
Dan Assisi:About 20 years ago, not that I want to date myself.
Dan Assisi:I came across this interesting book called Jesus CEO by Lauren Beth Cope.
Dan Assisi:That was published in 1996.
Dan Assisi:And I really thought it was like an eye opening piece because it
Dan Assisi:was like, Oh my God, I had never thought about Jesus that way.
Dan Assisi:And so I could not help but think about that today.
Dan Assisi:And so really excited to have you here to talk about that.
Dan Assisi:Excellent.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Flavio Zanetti:I think it's totally you, but most people have not
Flavio Zanetti:thought about Jesus in that way.
Flavio Zanetti:Right Dan?
Flavio Zanetti:I mean, it's, uh, it's people usually are, they think about Jesus from
Flavio Zanetti:a religious connotation and they stop right there and everybody.
Flavio Zanetti:Juxtapose, right, all his teachings, all his leadership examples in order to
Flavio Zanetti:really study or look into from that angle.
Flavio Zanetti:So you're not alone, and I think still most people, when they automatically see
Flavio Zanetti:or read the word Jesus, they associate that with the religious figure, not so
Flavio Zanetti:much so with the in the leader that Jesus was or still is for a lot of us, right?
Suzana Simões:Yeah, we tend to, um, to keep Jesus in this very, Narrow
Suzana Simões:perspective and today we're going to talk about leadership, but we
Suzana Simões:could also think of him, his role as educator, his role as a doctor.
Suzana Simões:and physician, right?
Suzana Simões:So there are many ways in which we can go way beyond the religious figure and
Suzana Simões:bring into, other roles that relate to our society and our living and learn from him.
Suzana Simões:So it will be interesting to talk about this today, but certainly
Suzana Simões:there is room for more in the future.
Sharon Seivert:Right, right.
Sharon Seivert:When I talk about the superpower balance leadership, I think Jesus is
Sharon Seivert:just probably, I'm probably the best image person that you can imagine,
Sharon Seivert:because he was so fully human.
Sharon Seivert:He was, he, he and he embodied all of our sort of gave examples
Sharon Seivert:of all of our best traits.
Sharon Seivert:You talk about him as a, as an educator, and as a healer.
Sharon Seivert:And all of those are aspects that we have of ourselves.
Sharon Seivert:And if you think about him in that particular way, he leads it with
Sharon Seivert:all these different dimensions.
Sharon Seivert:It's so he's so multidimensional.
Sharon Seivert:And one of the things I love that spiritism has brought to me is this
Sharon Seivert:total reframing of how who Jesus was, you know, the governor of the planet.
Sharon Seivert:He's not this one dimensional kind of person who came to earth.
Sharon Seivert:So I love thinking about him in all the ways you're describing.
Dan Assisi:Or an absent leader, right?
Dan Assisi:Because sometimes we think that if we have the perspective that he came
Dan Assisi:once and then we're still waiting for the second coming of Christ,
Dan Assisi:it's almost like, where has he been?
Dan Assisi:Is he an absent leader?
Dan Assisi:How can a good leader be absent?
Dan Assisi:Probably not.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:So I think he's a lot closer than we imagined.
Dan Assisi:I think maybe it's a way for us to jump in there and say, what do you guys
Dan Assisi:think about Jesus as a leadership model?
Dan Assisi:What is it that jumps out at
Flavio Zanetti:you?
Flavio Zanetti:I think the very, the big one that comes to me is about server leadership, right?
Flavio Zanetti:So he was the server leader per excellence.
Flavio Zanetti:And if you look at a lot of business studies show nowadays that servant leaders
Flavio Zanetti:are way more effective than leaders that don't play the role of servant leadership.
Flavio Zanetti:I mean, we have several examples of servant leaders.
Flavio Zanetti:Obviously, the one that really comes to mind is Abraham Lincoln, right?
Flavio Zanetti:One of the first ones.
Flavio Zanetti:We have, for example, Steve Jobs and so many others that really played that role.
Flavio Zanetti:Obviously, not as good as Jesus, but played the role.
Flavio Zanetti:Of servant leadership that made it made a change or made an impact into the modern
Flavio Zanetti:world, so to speak, they can really make some connections with servant leadership.
Flavio Zanetti:That's the way at least to me.
Flavio Zanetti:That's what comes to mind right away.
Dan Assisi:Flavio, do you really think Steve Jobs was a servant leader?
Flavio Zanetti:I do believe so.
Flavio Zanetti:I do believe so.
Flavio Zanetti:If you read his biography, his autobiography.
Flavio Zanetti:A lot of the things that he did was towards helping, enabling
Flavio Zanetti:these people, pushing these people towards success, and maybe not
Flavio Zanetti:100% of the time, obviously, right?
Flavio Zanetti:But the a good chunk of it, I think it was.
Dan Assisi:I'll take your word on that.
Dan Assisi:It's the first time I think of Steve Jobs as a servant leader,
Dan Assisi:but I think you do have a point.
Sharon Seivert:When I think about that servant leadership of Jesus, one
Sharon Seivert:of the things that I think about is that he had such love, such compassion.
Sharon Seivert:He felt people's pain.
Sharon Seivert:He went out of his way to help heal them.
Sharon Seivert:So he was a, what I call a relational leader.
Sharon Seivert:It's one of the six powers that he had.
Sharon Seivert:The other thing he did as a servant leader, a relational leader,
Sharon Seivert:is he established a community that has lasted millennia.
Sharon Seivert:I mean, think of what he does and how he has called us to serve other people.
Sharon Seivert:And he's called us to do work for the social good.
Sharon Seivert:And that is, of course, one of his major messages.
Sharon Seivert:But he is a relational or servant leader par excellence.
Sharon Seivert:I try to when I establish groups of leaders, one of the
Sharon Seivert:things I try to do is community.
Sharon Seivert:And imagine what he did to establish a community that
Sharon Seivert:served each other for millennia.
Sharon Seivert:I mean, wow.
Dan Assisi:Wow.
Dan Assisi:Well, and I'm gonna piggyback on that one sharing because not only did he
Dan Assisi:create a community, But he went out of his way to get people with different
Dan Assisi:backgrounds in that community, right?
Dan Assisi:His initial team was not homogeneous, right?
Dan Assisi:We had fishermen, we had tax collectors, right?
Dan Assisi:We had all kinds of different groups of people, some of which
Dan Assisi:obviously knew each other.
Dan Assisi:But some of which perhaps were not very welcome at first.
Dan Assisi:So I love that he built that diverse team.
Dan Assisi:We're talking about diversity, equity and inclusion nowadays,
Sharon Seivert:right?
Sharon Seivert:He
Dan Assisi:was the OG.
Dan Assisi:He was the OG on that piece, right?
Dan Assisi:He was the D& E
Flavio Zanetti:master.
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah, the diversity and inclusion and equity master.
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah, I
Suzana Simões:love
Sharon Seivert:it.
Sharon Seivert:Yeah, and went way out of his way and then had his disciples go
Sharon Seivert:way and way and way out of their way to reach across the world.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, and to Susana's point about the educational piece, I find
Dan Assisi:it hard to distinguish his leadership without the education piece, right?
Dan Assisi:He empowered others.
Dan Assisi:He has not left us with a single written work.
Dan Assisi:He has not left us with anything other than his words that we
Dan Assisi:actually hear through others.
Dan Assisi:So he really empowered this team of people that then created other
Dan Assisi:teams of people and who have been speaking to us for millennia.
Dan Assisi:I find that incredibly breathtaking in many different ways.
Dan Assisi:But Stu, where do you think you're going to jump in there?
Suzana Simões:No.
Suzana Simões:Yes.
Suzana Simões:When you said in power, I think that's you know, to me, um, when
Suzana Simões:I think about Jesus from this perspective, I think about someone who
Suzana Simões:embrace, heal, dignify, and empower.
Suzana Simões:Those are the four ideas that I actually think about and try to
Suzana Simões:bring to my own day to day life.
Suzana Simões:So when I'm dealing with my team, With my employees is okay.
Suzana Simões:These employees coming to me what is this employee needs at this moment,
Suzana Simões:he needs to be seen, he needs to be acknowledged, he needs to be healed
Suzana Simões:from conflict, from, stress, from whatever, is he ready to be empowered?
Suzana Simões:Right.
Suzana Simões:To feel that he is really valued.
Suzana Simões:So I, to think about when he multiply the bread and the fish, he attends the
Suzana Simões:immediate need of the crowd, but then after that most immediate need is met,
Suzana Simões:he goes on to, to teach and to empower people and to tell about all the talents
Suzana Simões:that you had, you were like, you were the salt and and get them To to fulfill
Suzana Simões:their missions from that point on.
Suzana Simões:So I have those steps within me and it's something that I try, obviously we don't,
Suzana Simões:we're not always far from being like it's a practice, it's a journey, obviously.
Suzana Simões:Uh, but those are references that I, I hold in myself, uh, for the work
Suzana Simões:that I do every day from, you know, from thinking of Jesus as a leader.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, I love that Susana.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, I love that.
Dan Assisi:Go
Flavio Zanetti:ahead.
Flavio Zanetti:Flutter.
Flavio Zanetti:No, I love that too.
Flavio Zanetti:And if I could maybe unpack the idea of Jesus as a servant leader, right?
Flavio Zanetti:In my head, it all begins with care because servant leaders,
Flavio Zanetti:they care for their teams.
Flavio Zanetti:They care for their peeps, right?
Flavio Zanetti:So to speak.
Flavio Zanetti:So he cared about not only the 12 disciples, but everybody that he
Flavio Zanetti:was Really leading, right, towards a new life, towards the right?
Flavio Zanetti:A new, you know, reality, so to speak.
Flavio Zanetti:He set the example for everybody to follow, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Hey, walk on my shoes, right?
Flavio Zanetti:I'm the path, the way, and the truth.
Flavio Zanetti:He set the example.
Flavio Zanetti:He always did the right things.
Flavio Zanetti:Not only for himself, but for others, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And he created the right mindset, not only for the disciples, but for
Flavio Zanetti:everybody that wanted to follow him.
Flavio Zanetti:The good thing about, the one thing that really catches my attention when
Flavio Zanetti:I look at Jesus leadership examples...
Flavio Zanetti:He allowed people to fail.
Flavio Zanetti:That's a very important one to me, right?
Flavio Zanetti:If you want, teams to be successful, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Teams to work hard, to make, a great impact into what they
Flavio Zanetti:do, they have to fail, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Failure means, finding different ways to do different things, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And he allowed folks to fail, which to me was amazing if you think about it, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And he also empowers
Suzana Simões:Can you, can you, can you bring us an example of that?
Suzana Simões:Maybe for people who are listening to us.
Suzana Simões:It may not be so clear.
Flavio Zanetti:Great, great point, Suzana.
Flavio Zanetti:So, a lot of times, if you're a new leader, right, the automatic
Flavio Zanetti:reaction of leading somebody or asking somebody to do something that
Flavio Zanetti:that person doesn't know 100% how to do it, it's taking too much time.
Flavio Zanetti:Let me do it myself, right?
Flavio Zanetti:He never did that.
Flavio Zanetti:He asked others.
Flavio Zanetti:He asked disciples.
Flavio Zanetti:He asked, you know, several instances where he asked folks to go and do things.
Flavio Zanetti:He never really took the reins of...
Flavio Zanetti:Doing, but rather he allowed folks to go out, try it out, fail, come
Flavio Zanetti:back and you give the lesson, you give the teachings, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And several opportunities he did that.
Flavio Zanetti:To me, that's a magic leadership example, right?
Dan Assisi:Yeah, and I can jump in there if you're looking for a passage, for
Dan Assisi:instance, I remember in John when Jesus tells Peter, before the crow, right?
Dan Assisi:Sorry, before the rooster crows, you rooster crows
Dan Assisi:disavow me three times, right?
Dan Assisi:Hey, I'm calling you out.
Dan Assisi:You're going to deny me three times.
Dan Assisi:And he was still okay with that.
Dan Assisi:And after that happened and Jesus and Peter came back quite beat up, right?
Dan Assisi:Emotionally and obviously psychologically, Jesus then picks him up again and
Dan Assisi:he asked, I think you might remember this different passage that I don't
Dan Assisi:remember exactly which, um, what are the line, but he's, he tells
Dan Assisi:Peter, Peter, do you love me?
Dan Assisi:And Peter says, yes, of course I do.
Dan Assisi:Then take care of my sheep.
Dan Assisi:And then he asks, Peter, do you love me?
Dan Assisi:And Peter goes.
Dan Assisi:Yes, of course, teacher, I do then take care of my sheep and
Dan Assisi:then he asked for the third time.
Dan Assisi:Do you love me, Peter?
Dan Assisi:And Peter then gets it, right?
Dan Assisi:He disallowed.
Dan Assisi:Disavow Jesus three times and Jesus brought this question three times to
Dan Assisi:say, here's your way back from your own guilt and self consciousness, right?
Dan Assisi:So work hard.
Dan Assisi:So I love that about him.
Dan Assisi:I think they did a lot of that, but I also want to double click on
Dan Assisi:something that Susanna said, which I think was really cool about the
Dan Assisi:communication piece, because what really.
Dan Assisi:inspires me a lot about Jesus among other things.
Dan Assisi:But in this particular area is his ability to what we call in
Dan Assisi:the education field differentiate.
Dan Assisi:He's able to speak to somebody at one level because he knows what that
Dan Assisi:person needs, and he's able to speak to somebody else at a different level
Dan Assisi:because he knows what that person needs.
Dan Assisi:So we have these great speeches of him talking to the crowd.
Dan Assisi:And we have this great dialogues of him talking individually to
Dan Assisi:people in different pieces with exactly what a person needs.
Dan Assisi:And that is just an incredible thing that sometimes nowadays, I think you
Dan Assisi:get lost sometimes in leadership.
Dan Assisi:Because I think people feel like they either have to do this great
Dan Assisi:speeches or write this great memo or do this great thing.
Dan Assisi:But Jesus was able to know how to relate.
Dan Assisi:Depending on the person's need and
Suzana Simões:that was really great.
Suzana Simões:And that is where leadership and education kind of meet.
Suzana Simões:Because another good example is when he talks about the kingdom of heaven.
Suzana Simões:So there are many, many times where he's going to explain about the
Suzana Simões:kingdom of heaven to the people.
Suzana Simões:But he will do it in very different ways depending on who he's talking to.
Suzana Simões:So, for the farmer is the treasure that is hidden under the ground, for the
Suzana Simões:fish, the fisherman is the fish under the water, for, and so forth, is the
Suzana Simões:yeast for the woman who is baking at the house, so it's it's really it's quite
Suzana Simões:significant his capacity to communicate And two, one of the things that I think
Suzana Simões:is it's very, um, important is how, and we're talking about relational leadership.
Suzana Simões:And that calls for horizontality.
Suzana Simões:So it's being horizontal you know, in the relating and
Suzana Simões:meeting people where they are.
Suzana Simões:But when you are a true leader and you are very centered on your role
Suzana Simões:and what you can do for your team, even though you are horizontal
Suzana Simões:in the relating, you never lose.
Suzana Simões:Your proper place, so to speak, in the chain of command.
Suzana Simões:I don't know if I'm being clear because a lot of leaders want
Suzana Simões:to be respected by imposing.
Suzana Simões:And
Sharon Seivert:when
Suzana Simões:you are naturally connected with this role of
Suzana Simões:loving and leading and enabling.
Suzana Simões:You don't have to fight for respect.
Suzana Simões:Respect is just a natural consequence.
Suzana Simões:People want to
Sharon Seivert:look up to you.
Sharon Seivert:I'd love that.
Sharon Seivert:Yeah, I love that.
Sharon Seivert:And I would like to piggyback on that immediately because what I hear from you
Sharon Seivert:is the issue of power versus force and Jesus was the ultimate sort of force.
Sharon Seivert:self powered leader.
Sharon Seivert:He did not have to force.
Sharon Seivert:He attracted the people to him who wanted to learn.
Sharon Seivert:So the, um, so that's a very, very important thing.
Sharon Seivert:So he had this natural power wherever he stood was the hub of his power and
Sharon Seivert:people came to him because of that.
Sharon Seivert:So there was no force.
Sharon Seivert:In him, right?
Sharon Seivert:And that allowed him to stand up to the literally the political forces of his day.
Sharon Seivert:And the one more thing I'd like to say to piggyback on your teaching
Sharon Seivert:thing is I am so impressed as I look at it about how he could teach
Sharon Seivert:anyone according to their level of understanding and their desire to learn.
Sharon Seivert:And so.
Sharon Seivert:We have the parables and then Kardec came along and, gave us
Sharon Seivert:more of this whole body of work.
Sharon Seivert:But he, people would take what they needed from the parables
Sharon Seivert:according to what they understood.
Sharon Seivert:So he spoke to us when he was here.
Sharon Seivert:In exactly the language that we needed.
Sharon Seivert:And that's an extraordinary thing.
Sharon Seivert:It's like reading one of those books that's for children, but it's really
Sharon Seivert:for adults, you know, we have a lot of examples in that literature.
Sharon Seivert:And that's, I think the way he.
Sharon Seivert:He taught and he inspired and so you could take every time I read something and
Sharon Seivert:Daniel you're such a master of this that you go into a story and you talk about
Sharon Seivert:it and I'm going well I didn't see that.
Sharon Seivert:I didn't notice that.
Dan Assisi:Oh, please Sharon.
Dan Assisi:Keep going.
Dan Assisi:Keep going.
Dan Assisi:That's good
Dan Assisi:Flattery will get you everywhere, Sharon.
Dan Assisi:Keep going.
Sharon Seivert:Yeah, so that's a, that's a form of genius and of power
Sharon Seivert:being able to interpret, to translate, to the level of the person you're
Sharon Seivert:speaking with it's the greatest teacher.
Sharon Seivert:What can you say?
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah.
Flavio Zanetti:I think the great analogy that I've heard one, not on Jesus,
Flavio Zanetti:but I'd love to connect with him.
Flavio Zanetti:It's someone that can really speak at the boardroom level.
Flavio Zanetti:All the way down to the boiler room level, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Going up and down, depending on what levels he was talking to, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Being through parables.
Flavio Zanetti:To me, since Dan mentioned about the communication style, to me, one of the
Flavio Zanetti:most important traits, or traits, I should say, of a great leader is the
Flavio Zanetti:ability to ask very good questions.
Flavio Zanetti:Yes.
Flavio Zanetti:And to me, Jesus asked...
Flavio Zanetti:Amazingly good questions, right?
Flavio Zanetti:That if you don't stop to share, right?
Flavio Zanetti:If you don't stop, if you don't stop to think about it, it's,
Flavio Zanetti:uh, some of them get lost.
Flavio Zanetti:So, for example, if you remember when the blind beggar comes to talk to him, Right?
Flavio Zanetti:What?
Flavio Zanetti:What?
Flavio Zanetti:What's his question?
Flavio Zanetti:What do you want me to do?
Flavio Zanetti:Right?
Dan Assisi:He asked that of everybody.
Dan Assisi:What would you have me do?
Dan Assisi:What do you want me to do?
Dan Assisi:Really?
Dan Assisi:He's a natural coach.
Flavio Zanetti:Dude!
Flavio Zanetti:I'm blind!
Flavio Zanetti:I'm sick!
Flavio Zanetti:What else?
Flavio Zanetti:But really?
Flavio Zanetti:Is that?
Flavio Zanetti:Is that what you want me to do for you?
Flavio Zanetti:Heal you and you go.
Flavio Zanetti:So I think asking a very good questions to me spoke, I mean, speaks very highly
Flavio Zanetti:of how Jesus was well connected with needs from everybody that he served, right?
Flavio Zanetti:He always spoke the truth, no matter what he, who he talked to, right?
Flavio Zanetti:He always used the truth, not only to hurt or never hurt people, but to really
Flavio Zanetti:set the tone of a conversation, right?
Flavio Zanetti:So he always engaged.
Flavio Zanetti:In the very productive conversation, every opportunity that he had, he let,
Flavio Zanetti:he left somebody bad when that person, before that person saw him, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And that should be, as spiritists that we all are, should be all of our major,
Flavio Zanetti:our math, our most aspiration, right?
Flavio Zanetti:to leave somebody better than before we encounter an individual of that person.
Flavio Zanetti:To me,
Dan Assisi:I would say, I would say even not, that's not even a spirit testing,
Dan Assisi:that's a human being thing, right?
Dan Assisi:As human beings, we should just do that leave people better than we found
Dan Assisi:them but Sharon, taking what Flavio said, let's go back to something you
Dan Assisi:said, which I think was really power.
Dan Assisi:You talked about six powers that Jesus had, right?
Dan Assisi:Could you talk to us a little bit about your insights
Sharon Seivert:into that?
Sharon Seivert:And you guys have touched on on a bunch of them.
Sharon Seivert:And, uh, so the, in the, in the balance leadership program, as we look at
Sharon Seivert:Jesus through this lens the image that I like people to have is the center
Sharon Seivert:in the four directions, the compass.
Sharon Seivert:So think of the compass as as something that we have in our hands.
Sharon Seivert:It's our native birthright.
Sharon Seivert:This is what we have.
Sharon Seivert:Because we're human.
Sharon Seivert:And so as human, we have these six powers, which, of course, Jesus
Sharon Seivert:exemplified in their highest forms.
Sharon Seivert:So the first power is our core at our core.
Sharon Seivert:Who are we?
Sharon Seivert:And who are we at our best?
Sharon Seivert:And what are our gifts that we need to bring to the world?
Sharon Seivert:to leave the world a better place, to make the world a better place.
Sharon Seivert:And do we own these and bring these out?
Sharon Seivert:And this is what I call authentic leadership.
Sharon Seivert:And we could talk for hours about the authenticity of Jesus and
Sharon Seivert:the values that he instilled in us and then has had us carry on.
Sharon Seivert:The second is inspirational leadership.
Sharon Seivert:When we talk about the teaching, when we talk about continuing to learn and
Sharon Seivert:raising our hope and having to see a different world, envision a different
Sharon Seivert:world and let's make it happen.
Sharon Seivert:Let's bring us all there.
Sharon Seivert:The third is motivational leadership, and that is that's doing it.
Sharon Seivert:That's acting.
Sharon Seivert:So not only do we have some good ideas, but We have to show up at the center
Sharon Seivert:and we have to help out and we have to act a day in a daily basis with the
Sharon Seivert:people who just frankly annoy us a lot.
Sharon Seivert:And so he's always out there doing these actions that make
Sharon Seivert:the world a better place.
Sharon Seivert:The fourth is the relational or servant leadership, which we've discussed
Sharon Seivert:extensively of which he was obviously a master and, and I, and an idol for us.
Sharon Seivert:The fifth is managerial leadership.
Sharon Seivert:And I think Jesus did.
Sharon Seivert:I mean, he paid attention to details and he took, looked at the comfort of
Sharon Seivert:the people around him and he did, those things to take care of our human needs.
Sharon Seivert:He didn't dismiss that.
Sharon Seivert:I mean, look who he was and yet he didn't make that small, you
Sharon Seivert:know, he paid attention to that.
Sharon Seivert:And the sixth is, of course, The miracle worker, the systems worker, the
Sharon Seivert:context, the bringing of the divine.
Sharon Seivert:How are we connected to the divine?
Sharon Seivert:How do we make miracles in our own lives by putting all of these things together?
Sharon Seivert:So that's the approach that I take.
Sharon Seivert:And when we own our powers, when we stand in our power, as opposed to what
Sharon Seivert:Susanna was talking about, which is force, when we stand in our power,
Sharon Seivert:we will create miracles and that.
Sharon Seivert:Lifts everyone up, and I think that's our responsibility as Spiritists.
Sharon Seivert:How do we lift everyone?
Sharon Seivert:Around us up.
Suzana Simões:Love it.
Suzana Simões:Love it.
Suzana Simões:I love it.
Suzana Simões:I love it.
Suzana Simões:All right.
Dan Assisi:That was a show.
Dan Assisi:Everybody.
Dan Assisi:We love it.
Dan Assisi:See you.
Dan Assisi:See you next week.
Sharon Seivert:And there's so many wonderful examples when we that we can
Sharon Seivert:look to about well, how do I do this?
Sharon Seivert:How can I be this kind of a great leader in this particular power?
Sharon Seivert:Well, let's take it over.
Dan Assisi:Is there one or two that you think are more
Dan Assisi:important than the other ones?
Sharon Seivert:The one that's most important for you to develop
Sharon Seivert:is the one where you sort of have a uh, you're not paying attention.
Sharon Seivert:So, for example, if I'll give myself, I am the poster child for one of these.
Sharon Seivert:And one of the reasons I wrote this book is so I could get better in these things.
Sharon Seivert:And so I'm one of those writers that says, I'm not doing this very well.
Sharon Seivert:I have to figure this out.
Sharon Seivert:And so then I write to try and figure it out.
Sharon Seivert:So for example, the power that is the weakest for me is the managerial
Sharon Seivert:leadership or the structure element.
Sharon Seivert:I always have to work extra hard at that.
Sharon Seivert:But when I do, when I assume my
Sharon Seivert:And I have, when I accept responsibility for that, and I do all those structural
Sharon Seivert:things, which is taking care of the finances and making sure the legal
Sharon Seivert:documents are in order and and doing, and going into the HTML and making
Sharon Seivert:sure the online reports are working, when I do those things, which is
Sharon Seivert:like chewing nails for me, okay?
Sharon Seivert:I.
Sharon Seivert:I have pumped up that tire that was not working so well,
Sharon Seivert:and my car is rolling along.
Sharon Seivert:So, each one of those, we were given this sense of what it is to be human,
Sharon Seivert:and we need all of these things.
Sharon Seivert:So, knowing that has made me a way better leader, because I'm
Sharon Seivert:paying attention to all of them.
Sharon Seivert:And if you can think about it like a car on the road, and all the tires
Sharon Seivert:have to be pumped up sufficiently.
Sharon Seivert:Just enough so you can go.
Sharon Seivert:You will have your preferences.
Sharon Seivert:But I think if we look at Jesus he did them all.
Sharon Seivert:He was a really full leader, a full human being, and he showed us it was possible.
Sharon Seivert:He showed us this ideal that we can move to.
Sharon Seivert:Okay.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:And that's what I think is so unique about him in many different ways, right?
Dan Assisi:It's the fact that he was so well rounded and so great in many different ways.
Dan Assisi:Obviously I think we all heard of that passage of the woman who's going to
Dan Assisi:get stoned for being adulterous, right?
Dan Assisi:And then he turns around and he does things on the, on the ground
Dan Assisi:and eventually everybody leaves and he turns to her and says,
Dan Assisi:This woman who has condemned you?
Dan Assisi:No one.
Dan Assisi:She says then you're free.
Dan Assisi:But then he tells her, and, but go and sin no more.
Dan Assisi:So he's saying, Hey, we understand you.
Dan Assisi:We're being empathetic.
Dan Assisi:Everybody has made a mistake before.
Dan Assisi:It's okay.
Dan Assisi:You are off the hook today, so to speak.
Dan Assisi:But, but don't do it again.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:So there's also this powerful mixture of tenderness.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:Thank you.
Dan Assisi:and force, right?
Dan Assisi:Or, or, or whatever you want to call that, right?
Dan Assisi:Of, of rightfulness, uh, righteousness, I should say.
Dan Assisi:That I think is really touching.
Dan Assisi:It's like there is the feminine and the masculine.
Dan Assisi:There is the, a well rounded approach that I think is so
Dan Assisi:rare for us to find nowadays.
Sharon Seivert:That's the balanced aspect of it is that he didn't
Sharon Seivert:leave as it were any stone unturned.
Sharon Seivert:If we're going to continue with this particular story, he you know, he did
Sharon Seivert:both of these things and I love your comparison of the male and the female,
Sharon Seivert:because here's another example where I feel he had extraordinary balance.
Sharon Seivert:And if you look at the symbol that I use, which is the center in the four
Sharon Seivert:directions, that actually is encoded.
Sharon Seivert:both male and female leadership at a in a balance.
Sharon Seivert:So I think he exemplified that in the tenderness, you said, and in the
Sharon Seivert:strength of no nonsense kind of strength.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:And by male and female, we want to be clear, right?
Dan Assisi:These are by no way gender specific traits.
Dan Assisi:We were just talking about traditious animus and anima that young brought forth.
Dan Assisi:Y different ways.
Dan Assisi:Yin yang and like this different opposites.
Dan Assisi:But I think that this balance is a really powerful thing in general for us.
Dan Assisi:And what else jumps out at you guys that Jesus did so well that stuck
Dan Assisi:with you when it comes to dealing with people and leading with people?
Dan Assisi:If you don't, if you don't speak, I will, but you know, I'm
Dan Assisi:trying to be polite here, people.
Sharon Seivert:I, I, I, there must be something wrong with Flavio.
Sharon Seivert:You're trying to be a good leader, huh?
Sharon Seivert:Yeah, I try Flavio's audio because he's in power right now.
Dan Assisi:You know, we got to say this, Flavio, if you're watching
Dan Assisi:this, you'll notice that Flavio has a little bit of a darker background.
Dan Assisi:Flavio is doing some really great stuff here today.
Dan Assisi:He's in Italy.
Dan Assisi:There is a blackout where he is.
Dan Assisi:He's running on battery on borrowed time.
Dan Assisi:So thank you, Flavio.
Dan Assisi:For for making it happen.
Dan Assisi:If I were to disappear,
Flavio Zanetti:I wouldn't have lost this for anything.
Flavio Zanetti:I wouldn't have missed this for anything.
Flavio Zanetti:It's already sadly my time here.
Flavio Zanetti:So it's 12 38 a.
Flavio Zanetti:m.
Flavio Zanetti:Oh, oh my gosh.
Flavio Zanetti:He's back.
Flavio Zanetti:The life is back.
Flavio Zanetti:The miracle.
Flavio Zanetti:You just, you just, you just mentioned this and everything's back.
Flavio Zanetti:Look at
Dan Assisi:this.
Dan Assisi:The light is back.
Dan Assisi:You're flying there.
Dan Assisi:Look at that.
Dan Assisi:But there goes our excuse, but there goes the excuse of just being able to
Dan Assisi:kick Flavio out if we don't like what he says and pretend it was a blackout.
Flavio Zanetti:So cannot kick me out, no, no.
Flavio Zanetti:What I wanted to say is, I wanted to go back to what you mentioned,
Flavio Zanetti:right, that Jesus is the ideal model for not only a leader, but the
Flavio Zanetti:ideal model for humankind overall.
Flavio Zanetti:If you look at, for example what called you Gus, you know,
Flavio Zanetti:idea of ideal humankind, , you guys mentioned this, right?
Flavio Zanetti:At the same time, Jesus had the initiative, the courage, the objectivity,
Flavio Zanetti:right, as well as the intuition, the capacity of love or the spiritual wisdom.
Flavio Zanetti:That's really demonstrated in a lot of examples when he, for
Flavio Zanetti:example, expelled the merchants.
Flavio Zanetti:that were turning the synagogues into a market, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Very energetic, very, you know, gregarious in a way that, no, get out
Flavio Zanetti:of here, this is not your place to be.
Flavio Zanetti:He was very you know, emphatic and really putting those people out.
Flavio Zanetti:At the same time, when he invites the children to talk to me, right?
Flavio Zanetti:As the children come to me, he shows his other side.
Flavio Zanetti:And on his, again, leadership, principles, he was able to understand.
Flavio Zanetti:The intrinsic needs for everyone that he was leading and he was really talking
Flavio Zanetti:to, to tap or to really uh, achieve what those people needed at that time, right?
Flavio Zanetti:I think that to me is a, it's a magnanimous faculty that leaders, we
Flavio Zanetti:as leaders have to understand people come to us for different reasons.
Flavio Zanetti:And if we're able to really move away from the surface, right, the
Flavio Zanetti:tip of the iceberg, what's really driving that person's behavior, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Or that person's interest and all that.
Flavio Zanetti:I think to me, there was nobody else that did as Matt, nobody mastered this.
Flavio Zanetti:The way Jesus did.
Flavio Zanetti:So to me, it's just phenomenal,
Dan Assisi:right?
Dan Assisi:I love that, Flavio, and I love that you said the courage that he had, too, right?
Dan Assisi:Because I think that he does something that is really hard for
Dan Assisi:us to do nowadays, which is have difficult conversations, right?
Dan Assisi:We all struggle with having difficult, crucial conversations, so to speak,
Dan Assisi:where the stakes are high, things are important, and he did it in a way
Dan Assisi:that it was not aggressive, right?
Dan Assisi:He was able to speak truth and speak to the Spirit.
Dan Assisi:It wasn't speaking to the physical, he was speaking to the spiritual, and
Dan Assisi:that obviously he had credibility, he had authenticity, he lived it,
Dan Assisi:and he did that, and he was very courageous in that sense, because
Dan Assisi:he had his eyes on what was best.
Dan Assisi:For everybody, not only for him, right?
Dan Assisi:And I think it's really, that's really a powerful thing because
Dan Assisi:sometimes we get trapped on what is it that I need right now?
Dan Assisi:What's my angle?
Dan Assisi:What do I need to get out of this?
Dan Assisi:As opposed to what's best for everybody.
Dan Assisi:He was able to convey that message to such an extent that one of the
Dan Assisi:things that I admire the most about Jesus that I only learned later as I
Dan Assisi:started to study a little bit more.
Dan Assisi:It's his ability to cross lines, right?
Dan Assisi:And break taboos at the time.
Dan Assisi:So, for instance, things that we take for granted, but he went out and spoke
Dan Assisi:to women when they were by themselves.
Dan Assisi:That's something that did not take place at that time and place.
Dan Assisi:Like a man would not just simply go out to a woman and start speaking with her.
Dan Assisi:If she were by herself he also spoke to different people who were considered
Dan Assisi:perhaps not as good or not as friendly the Samaritans that there were like the
Dan Assisi:Jews and Samaritans didn't really see eye to eye and Samaritans were considered
Dan Assisi:to be perhaps in less than but he made a point of sharing many different stories
Dan Assisi:about how there's a good Samaritan.
Dan Assisi:That's even a parable like the good Samaritan for us is just a term But
Dan Assisi:back in the time, a good Samaritan would be even more impactful as a message
Dan Assisi:because many people would be, will be thinking that there is no good Samaritan.
Dan Assisi:It's impossible to have a good Samaritan, right?
Dan Assisi:Which is not different than the way I think our world is crumbling, the
Dan Assisi:cookie is crumbling today, right?
Dan Assisi:Where we think that because somebody's part of a political party or a nation
Dan Assisi:or a preference, Whatever it is, we think that they cannot be good.
Dan Assisi:And so this ability to walk and across borders, across groups and
Dan Assisi:talk to people about the spirit, about their needs, it's so inspiring.
Dan Assisi:Because sometimes I struggle with those difficult conversations, right?
Dan Assisi:And sometimes I ask myself, Ooh, Am I being the right amount of
Dan Assisi:courageous in this conversation?
Dan Assisi:I don't want to come again, come as charged and I don't want to wimp out from
Dan Assisi:actually saying this is important to me.
Dan Assisi:And I think he did that so well in many different ways, right?
Dan Assisi:That I think still sticks as a, as an example for me, 2000
Dan Assisi:years later, it's amazing.
Suzana Simões:Yeah.
Suzana Simões:It's funny.
Suzana Simões:Um, where you guys are saying really resonates with me.
Suzana Simões:And when you ask what you guys have more to say, and we were like quiet for a
Suzana Simões:second I was kind of, you know, after Sharon spoke about the six powers, I
Suzana Simões:felt like I needed a minute to digest it.
Suzana Simões:And where I was is like, Oh, let me think about those things.
Suzana Simões:And then when you ask about, what You know, of those six, it stands out most
Suzana Simões:to you, and I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but when you spoke about
Suzana Simões:the core, because I wrote everything down the core of who we are, our best,
Suzana Simões:our gifts, and authentic leadership and values, I think that's one of
Suzana Simões:the things that I struggle at work.
Suzana Simões:I think that leaders were expected to be in a certain way, behave in a certain way.
Suzana Simões:And in every moment and time in my life, my, my work is to
Suzana Simões:be myself, my authentic self.
Suzana Simões:I want to be able to speak honestly and freely about my feelings, my emotions.
Suzana Simões:Without judgment, without shame, and I think that's that there is a
Suzana Simões:place for that in leadership as well.
Suzana Simões:And, you know, going back to Dan and Flavio, I think that Jesus portrayed that.
Suzana Simões:He was himself at all times.
Suzana Simões:He didn't change.
Suzana Simões:And, we, in leadership, and depending on the size of the institution that
Suzana Simões:you work there are a lot of politics and a lot of things to be considered.
Suzana Simões:So, navigating that can be challenging, right?
Suzana Simões:But I, I still try as much as possible to be, you know,
Suzana Simões:as authentic and transparent.
Suzana Simões:With my thinking, but also with my feelings,
Sharon Seivert:I would love to give you some feedback.
Sharon Seivert:Susanna, because I have attended your lectures and your authenticity
Sharon Seivert:ripples out from your core.
Sharon Seivert:You are so there where you are.
Sharon Seivert:And what happens when someone does that as a leader or in your case, a
Sharon Seivert:speaker, but you're leading us with your speaking is that it allows us to be Like,
Sharon Seivert:Ourselves in that moment we can settle into it and there's places where we as
Sharon Seivert:human beings overlap Where I have this in common with you and you have just
Sharon Seivert:resonated it or vibrated It with me.
Sharon Seivert:Does that make sense?
Sharon Seivert:Yes That's what I that's what I feel.
Sharon Seivert:So the effort that you put into being authentic Ripples out to everyone you
Sharon Seivert:speak with and everyone you touch.
Sharon Seivert:It is a major blessing When we do this as leaders or as human beings
Sharon Seivert:when we are our authentic selves.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, plus one on that.
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah, plus a thousand because there's a lot of studies that
Flavio Zanetti:show that the more vulnerable leaders are, the easier they have in building
Flavio Zanetti:trust with their teams, and the more teams trust each other, the more
Flavio Zanetti:they perform really well together.
Flavio Zanetti:So, vulnerability based trust is one of the characteristics of a servant leader.
Flavio Zanetti:That's not really...
Flavio Zanetti:you know, shame.
Flavio Zanetti:So you know what?
Flavio Zanetti:I'm sorry.
Flavio Zanetti:I made a mistake.
Flavio Zanetti:You know, there was a wrong decision.
Flavio Zanetti:Let's back up and go to the left versus right now, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And being able to do that.
Flavio Zanetti:I think it's a phenomenal, taskers.
Flavio Zanetti:If it's a phenomenal behavior that he was not afraid to say that, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And we should learn from it, right?
Flavio Zanetti:And there's a lot of benefits of, behaving in that mindset.
Dan Assisi:And I love that you start with that at the core, because I think
Dan Assisi:Susanna's point is super important.
Dan Assisi:We struggle knowing who we are, and nowadays it's so
Dan Assisi:hard for us to look at that.
Dan Assisi:Flavio's light went out again right after he spoke.
Dan Assisi:It's almost like in command.
Dan Assisi:But Flavio, don't worry, your inner light continues to shine through.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, we can see it.
Dan Assisi:You can see it.
Dan Assisi:He's still shining.
Dan Assisi:He's still shining through.
Dan Assisi:But this core piece is so interesting.
Dan Assisi:And I, I remember that, that passage that when Jesus says, I am, right?
Dan Assisi:And he says, I am the way and so forth.
Dan Assisi:But there's one, he says, I am.
Dan Assisi:He knows who he is, right?
Dan Assisi:I wish I knew who I am to the extent that he know who he was, right?
Dan Assisi:He had no hang ups about it.
Dan Assisi:And I think that is such an important question for us to ask nowadays, when
Dan Assisi:we get pulled in so many different ways about who we should be for others.
Dan Assisi:And that's a really great.
Dan Assisi:place is authenticity, vulnerability, the core piece and not, you know, I just,
Dan Assisi:it's just such a, I think I just want to highlight and reframe that for our times
Dan Assisi:because I think that we are, even with social media, we're trying to be so many
Dan Assisi:different things for different people.
Dan Assisi:I see so many happy people on social media.
Dan Assisi:But that's not the world, right?
Dan Assisi:I think that going back to who we are, knowing what we
Dan Assisi:are about, it's the journey.
Dan Assisi:And, yeah, I'm really glad that he, everywhere that he did, he led with that.
Dan Assisi:He knew who he was and what he was about.
Dan Assisi:He knew what his mission and vision was, so to speak.
Dan Assisi:And I'm not quite sure that I'm always aligned to my mission and vision.
Sharon Seivert:But by doing that, he did absolutely the
Sharon Seivert:way for even today, calling us.
Sharon Seivert:It's like when you're, when you hit a gong and that sound vibrates
Sharon Seivert:out, that's what Jesus did for us in terms of his authenticity.
Sharon Seivert:That sound has reverberated through the ages.
Sharon Seivert:And, you know, he's saying, do that, be that, be yourself.
Sharon Seivert:The being is everything.
Sharon Seivert:If you get that right.
Sharon Seivert:Everything else is gravy.
Sharon Seivert:Everything else is good.
Sharon Seivert:The other thing that he did in communication that I wanted to
Sharon Seivert:expand on, that Susanna talked about was, and communication, Flavio,
Sharon Seivert:you were talking about that too.
Sharon Seivert:I think that the way he listened, Was multi multi multi leveled.
Sharon Seivert:He listened not only to what the people said, what they asked for,
Sharon Seivert:like I'm blind for the, you know, this, of course, this is what I want.
Sharon Seivert:But he listens for what the real needs were.
Sharon Seivert:And when you're a good leader, someone comes to you with a problem.
Sharon Seivert:And you listen at many levels for what really are they asking,
Sharon Seivert:and what really do they need, and what really can I give to them.
Sharon Seivert:So you're listening to the fact that they're anxious, you're listening to
Sharon Seivert:the fact that they're afraid of the situation, you're listening to the fact
Sharon Seivert:that they don't feel respected, or you're listening to all of those communications
Sharon Seivert:that are coming through them, and then you can respond in the most full way.
Dan Assisi:I love that because, oftentimes Sharon, I tell people, That
Dan Assisi:people bring something and they think it's a problem, but it's not a problem.
Dan Assisi:It's a situation.
Dan Assisi:right?
Dan Assisi:Sometimes they bring you a situation, but you have to figure out what
Dan Assisi:the problem is in that situation because that situation can be just
Dan Assisi:one manifestation of a deeper thing.
Dan Assisi:So I really like that approach in general.
Dan Assisi:And I think that we can chat about this.
Dan Assisi:In many different ways, but our time is coming, so maybe we
Dan Assisi:should we should begin our wrap up
Flavio Zanetti:time flies when you're having fun.
Flavio Zanetti:I guess, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Hasn't this be fun guys?
Flavio Zanetti:I mean, we've talked a lot about Jesus and his leadership style and we could
Flavio Zanetti:be here talking until tomorrow morning.
Flavio Zanetti:We'll be, it will be enough enough topics for us to do that, but we have to wrap.
Flavio Zanetti:So maybe, you know, I'll start, we'll start with, Sharon.
Flavio Zanetti:She's our, you're a special, you're a special guest.
Flavio Zanetti:What's one thing that's really resonated with you that we talked about today.
Flavio Zanetti:And maybe you could also leave, right.
Flavio Zanetti:Some information if folks wanted to get ahold of you.
Flavio Zanetti:How would they find you, right?
Flavio Zanetti:So they can continue the conversation, they can get to know more about you,
Flavio Zanetti:your works, your books, your publications your work and everything else.
Sharon Seivert:Okay, that was four things.
Sharon Seivert:Okay, let me see if I can get that right.
Sharon Seivert:Uh, so, um, so I am just so happy to be in this wonderful, spiritist conversation
Sharon Seivert:because it means the world to me.
Sharon Seivert:It has...
Sharon Seivert:Spiritism has led me to great new insights.
Sharon Seivert:It has led me to be a better human being.
Sharon Seivert:I'm working on it to be a better leader.
Sharon Seivert:I'm working on it and to enter the world in a different way.
Sharon Seivert:So spiritism has given me so much and it's so great to be with you
Sharon Seivert:guys on and talking about it.
Sharon Seivert:And I think, we'll, I think we will continue to talk about
Sharon Seivert:this because it is a full.
Sharon Seivert:Topic for future times.
Sharon Seivert:Um, so I, uh, so thank you for that.
Sharon Seivert:Thank you for inviting me to the party.
Sharon Seivert:Um, I just love that.
Sharon Seivert:And it's always a party when I'm meeting up with people like you guys.
Sharon Seivert:If people want to uh, learn about the book, they can just go to amazon.
Sharon Seivert:com and get it in print, ebook, or audiobook.
Sharon Seivert:It's the superpower of balanced leadership and unbalanced.
Sharon Seivert:times.
Sharon Seivert:And if you get it, use it to think more about the spiritist conversation that
Sharon Seivert:we had, you know, bring our conversation into looking at the book this way
Sharon Seivert:and how you can claim these powers.
Sharon Seivert:I have a Dutch colleague who's, who told me that when you reclaim your
Sharon Seivert:powers, these powers, you can create a miracle and reclaim and miracle.
Sharon Seivert:is an anagram.
Sharon Seivert:So think about that for what you want to do.
Sharon Seivert:Jesus made all these miracles and that have continued through millennia.
Sharon Seivert:How about you doing that for yourself?
Dan Assisi:And if you get the audio book as I have, you will
Dan Assisi:get to hear Sharon's voice.
Dan Assisi:It's like having her in your living room or in your car and so forth.
Dan Assisi:So it's a wonderful experience too.
Dan Assisi:And there are some also some wonderful musical or audiophonic.
Dan Assisi:There's a lot of cues there, too, that are really nice.
Dan Assisi:Um, so thank you for doing that.
Dan Assisi:Thanks for being with you,
Sharon Seivert:Sharon.
Sharon Seivert:Dan and I have swapped stories about what it is to make our first audiobooks.
Sharon Seivert:So, we've been doing some kvetching on that.
Sharon Seivert:But we got it done, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Now you got me curious, Sharon.
Flavio Zanetti:I'm going to have to buy the audiobook because I want to hear
Flavio Zanetti:you, you know, tell me the book.
Flavio Zanetti:I love it.
Sharon Seivert:Exactly.
Sharon Seivert:That's fine.
Sharon Seivert:I love it.
Sharon Seivert:Yeah, yeah.
Sharon Seivert:Well, we'll see if there's another one in my future.
Sharon Seivert:But this one was...
Sharon Seivert:Um, it was a good thing to do, to be able to do that.
Sharon Seivert:So Dan and I have a lot of simpatico on what it is to create an audio book.
Sharon Seivert:Excellent.
Dan Assisi:Sharon, pick who goes
Sharon Seivert:next.
Dan Assisi:What's that?
Dan Assisi:Pick who goes next.
Dan Assisi:Get to pick.
Dan Assisi:You want to have the three of us to say, to say.
Dan Assisi:Yes, Dan.
Sharon Seivert:Uh, yeah, I can go on this call with all
Sharon Seivert:of us talking over each other.
Suzana Simões:No, no, no, I can go next.
Suzana Simões:I, I, I am inspired by the conversation today.
Suzana Simões:I'm fairly new in the leadership realm.
Suzana Simões:I have been in my new position for the past three years and I'm, um, you know,
Suzana Simões:maybe about, uh, 35 therapists that work for me today and I'm always thinking
Suzana Simões:like, you know, what, what can I do now?
Suzana Simões:How can I learn?
Suzana Simões:How can I grow?
Suzana Simões:What else can I study?
Suzana Simões:And Just, it's just like crazy just
Sharon Seivert:occurred to me, man,
Suzana Simões:I have to I have Jesus as a role model and I, it's something that
Suzana Simões:I think I need to study a little bit more from this perspective, you know?
Suzana Simões:So quite honestly, it just.
Suzana Simões:kind of open up a whole new realm of possibilities.
Suzana Simões:Uh, for me, I will definitely get the book.
Suzana Simões:I would love to read it and you'll probably be hearing from you with some
Suzana Simões:comments and more exciting conversations and just, uh, feeling enthusiastic about.
Suzana Simões:You know, I, I wrote a lot of things down and I'm like, that can
Suzana Simões:be a very good lecture too, you know, so my mind is like, you know,
Suzana Simões:going like pretty fast right now.
Suzana Simões:So I just want to thank you all for for having me too here today for
Suzana Simões:Dan in particular for pushing us and putting everything together.
Suzana Simões:Uh, sometimes life is, um.
Suzana Simões:These battle of priorities and, um, you know, it's, it's, it's
Suzana Simões:tough, but I appreciate all of you.
Suzana Simões:Thank you so much.
Suzana Simões:It was very, very nice.
Suzana Simões:Thank you.
Flavio Zanetti:I'll go next.
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah.
Flavio Zanetti:I'll go next and then you can wrap us up.
Flavio Zanetti:Uh, bring us home then.
Flavio Zanetti:How about that?
Flavio Zanetti:And you have light.
Flavio Zanetti:So I have light again.
Flavio Zanetti:So yes.
Flavio Zanetti:So to me, to me, uh, I'm a big, a big, you know, a big fan of leadership, you
Flavio Zanetti:know, uh, a lot of, do a lot of reading about leadership, leadership development.
Flavio Zanetti:Developing leaders.
Flavio Zanetti:It's a great passion of mine, not only for work, but, you know, across my, you
Flavio Zanetti:know, my life and being able to connect.
Flavio Zanetti:All these great lessons that we've learned from Jesus, if we are courageous enough to
Flavio Zanetti:look at his behaviors or his life as of a leader, not just a religious leader, that
Flavio Zanetti:opens up a huge amount of possibilities.
Flavio Zanetti:For us to learn his treats, his leadership treats, in a way that it will
Flavio Zanetti:make us more effective leaders, right?
Flavio Zanetti:So by, by all, by no means, I'm a, I'm a great leader, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Uh, but being able to leverage his teachings or his, leadership
Flavio Zanetti:traits has helped me in tremendous, difficult situations in the past.
Flavio Zanetti:And I'm so happy, right?
Flavio Zanetti:That I was able to choose that path and I invite all of us, right?
Flavio Zanetti:to go on it as well.
Flavio Zanetti:So, big fan of it.
Flavio Zanetti:I hope you also, got inspired to read his, life or his teachings in a slightly
Flavio Zanetti:different, paradigm of a great leader.
Flavio Zanetti:And with that, Dan, bring us home, please.
Flavio Zanetti:Wow,
Dan Assisi:there's not a lot more to say.
Dan Assisi:For me, specifically, I love these conversations and I love this particular
Dan Assisi:conversation because it's a great reminder That Jesus is more than that religious
Dan Assisi:figure that we have made him to be.
Dan Assisi:He is a real life figure that, as Susanna mentioned, he is a doctor,
Dan Assisi:he is a coach, he is a manager leader, he is a philosopher, he is
Dan Assisi:this well rounded model of what we can become that is both uplifting.
Dan Assisi:and inspiring.
Dan Assisi:And so to continue to foster these conversations is great for my soul because
Dan Assisi:it reminds me that I need to take him from that little box that we have placed him
Dan Assisi:and bring him closer to our everyday life and see that his examples are for living.
Dan Assisi:They're not just for sunday.
Dan Assisi:They're not just for when we are reading the Bible or any other book and
Dan Assisi:that there is real world connections.
Dan Assisi:There's so many things that we can talk about him, the
Dan Assisi:miracles, mindsets, and so forth.
Dan Assisi:So that is really great.
Dan Assisi:And I love that Sharon has taken the time to be with us.
Dan Assisi:Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us and all the thinking that
Dan Assisi:you have done on this, Sharon.
Dan Assisi:I hope that you with us.
Sharon Seivert:another party.
Sharon Seivert:I would be happy.
Sharon Seivert:Yes.
Sharon Seivert:Oh, great.
Sharon Seivert:Thank you.
Sharon Seivert:Thank you so much.
Sharon Seivert:Because I any opportunity I can to give back to spiritism for what it
Sharon Seivert:has given me is of such a blessing.
Dan Assisi:We're so thrilled to have you.
Dan Assisi:And now you know where to find her, you know where to find Flavio
Dan Assisi:Zanetti, you can find him online as F.
Dan Assisi:Zanetti, you can find Susana Simoes online as Susana Simoes 70.
Dan Assisi:And you can find me as Dan Assisi because I'm that creative.
Dan Assisi:I don't have a cool, handle for online, so you just have to use my name.
Dan Assisi:But we love to have you here.
Dan Assisi:We just want to remind you that there are many other conversations
Dan Assisi:that you can listen to or watch on YouTube and Facebook.
Dan Assisi:But you can also download.
Dan Assisi:Our podcast and whatever podcast platform you will listen to or
Dan Assisi:listen, you listen to the most.
Dan Assisi:We're so thrilled to have you here and we hope to see you on
Dan Assisi:the next Spiritist Conversations.
Dan Assisi:All right, everyone.
Dan Assisi:Have a great one.
Sharon Seivert:Bye bye.
Sharon Seivert:Bye.
Sharon Seivert:Have a great day.
