KC and Jamil discuss the Divine Nine, particularly highlighting the legacy of historically Black sororities and their importance on predominantly white campuses. They are joined by Dr. Audrey Kerr, professor of African American literature, and Tishana Williams, president of the Sigma Gamma chapter of Sigma Gamma Rho, Inc.  

Hello. Welcome back, everyone. KC, I have been waiting for this day since

you and I have started on this podcast. Yup, early days,

you... This was one of the first podcast episodes

on the Divine Nine on Black Greek letter organizations. You said,

"We have got to do an episode about this," and it has been

on our long list, but recently, we bumped it right up to the

front. So there was something that happened on our campus, and we said,

"You know what, we need to have this conversation

right now." Yes. I'm sure, as many of our listeners know, and even

if they do not, SCSU has received a lot of social media

pressure about an incident that occurred on our campus. There was a video

that was widely shared and spread of other organizations that are predominantly

white mocking our D9 on campus. And so I won't go into too

much detail about the incident itself, as it has been widely covered in

other areas of our campus and there has been statements put out by

our university. However, I do think, instead, this is a beautiful moment

for us to uplift black women, to uplift our Divine Nine organizations on

our campus and throughout universities across our nation, and also for us

to discuss the legacy and the importance and the history and the culture

of these organizations. Absolutely, and it's Black History Month.

It is Black History Month. And it's very clear.

Myself included, I feel very... I've been kinda clueless about

Greek organizations in general, and certainly these, and I've learned a

lot, just preparing for this episode today, and it's humbling. And I think

there's a whole lot that people don't know.

And we're not gonna answer every question in this episode,

but we are gonna go into the history, legacy, significance, richness of

these organizations today in a way that I think will honor their members

and the impact that they've had. Yeah, especially as a predominantly white

institution, this is the perfect time for us to reflect about how do

we provide Divine Nine organizations with the dignity they deserve? How

do we ensure that the spaces in which Divine Nine organizations exist are

safe? How are we ensuring that they're safe? How are we protecting black

students? How are we making sure that black students are feeling that sense

of belonging on their campus? And we could talk about, historically,

what does that look like, but I think, especially for us here at

SCSU, this is a good moment for us to think critically about our

involvement as we evolve as a social justice institution, what does Divine

Nine look like as a part of that process? And so I'm glad

this conversation's happening. And, KC, we have two fantastic guests to

help us talk about this topic. Because I am not

a Greek... I'm not part of a Greek organization, I'm not part of

any Divine organization, so we had to bring in some other people to

help us have this conversation. Yeah, so we have two guests from Southern

Connecticut State University with us today, and we also have some folks

who do... Who are gonna join us via audio clip.

Our first guest is a professor, Dr. Audrey Kerr. She's a professor of

African American literature, author of a couple books. She's done a lot

of historical ethnographic work around Greek letter organizations. And we

have Tishana Williams who's a senior student. She's an RA, she's a campus

leader, she's a social work major, and the president of Sigma Gamma Rho

here at Southern Connecticut State University. So to both of you, welcome

so... We thank you so much for being here on Real Talk. 0:04:03.4Dr. Audery

Thanks for having me. Thank you. Yes.

This is a special moment for me. Tishana and I have been great

friends for quite some times, ever since she started as an RA in

my building. And Audrey was my first and only black professor at Southern,

so I will give her that credit because that's true. Wow,

I'm surprised to hear that. Yes. And I picked her class specifically before

I left because I wanted to ensure I had a black faculty member.

Oh, the pressure. Yes. Oh, no, no! Listen, it was a great class

and it was a great time, it was a great time.

I'm glad to hear that. But. Yeah. Four years of education,

and you had to really try to have one class with a black

professor. Yes, and it was not in my

requirements. I believe it was elective, so... Wow. We tried hard and we

got it. Well. We tried hard and we got it. Black women are

still hovering somewhere around 4% of PhD's, so

the odds were not good starting out for you

to find one of us, but we're... We're a needle in a hay

stack, but we're here. So, Audrey, I'm wondering if you could talk a

little bit about where these organizations started, what was the impetus,

what was happening in the world that led to the founding of some

of these earliest organizations? Yeah, sure. So before the Divine Nine,

there was actually... There's one black Greek lettered organization that

predates those, and it was founded in 1904,

and it's actually Sigma Pi Phi, also known as Boule. And this was

a very, and still is, perhaps the most elite, prestigious, closed membership

organization of black men in the country. It was founded in 1904,

which is two years before the first member of the... What became the

Pan Hellenic Council, which is Alpha Phi Alpha, evolved. I know Tishana

knows this history as well. Founded in 1906. And Boule was peopled by

the most distinguished black men in America of the time. So Dr.

Du Bois and Martin Luther King, Vernon Jordan now, Charlie Rangel.

If you are a renowned black senator, very well respected black doctor,

judge, philosopher, these are the men who still gather in this organization.

It is not an organization you can seek out; they seek you out,

kinda like Skull and Bones. Okay. And... But they are a separate entity.

And then the AKAs kind of had a... One might call it a

fissure where there were some members who were...

Who wanted to have more than a social grouping, and it was a

primarily social organization at that time. Keep in mind how... Where it

would have been in 1908 for Black women to actually be getting

a college education, and they're at Howard University, and these are quite

distinguished women. But then a group of women were looking for a different

type of experience, and a few members and then some other women joined

a second Black sorority that they called Delta Sigma Theta, and they were

the first incorporated sorority, that was in 1913.

So then moving forward with just the women, that was followed by Zeta in

1920, and then Sigma Gamma Rho in 1922.

And Tishana, do you wanna say a little bit about your organization?

We wanna hear about your Sorority. Of course I would love to. So

Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority Incorporated was founded November 12th, 1922 at

Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana. We are the only Divine Nine

sorority that was founded at APWI. A little bit more about our organization.

We were founded by seven young Black educators,

and originally our organization's first few members that we were bringing

in were all also educators. Another big part of our history is the

fact that it was founded in Indianapolis, Indiana. And during the time,

Black women specifically were facing a lot of sexism and a lot of

racism, so something that a lot of the members of our organization take

a lot of pride in is the fact that these incredible young Black

women were able to create an organization to benefit the community during

the time where they were facing a lot of challenges. Yeah. And I

think... And to Misha, and I think... I'm sorry to Tishana, I think

this is related, that each of the four women's organizations were actually...

They envisioned themselves as building a different type of tradition or

adding to the tradition, right? So we think of Black community when we

use the term Black community as monolithic, but this is really about Black

women having different interest, having different desires, it's about the

AKAs really looking for a kind of social network of women,

and then the Deltas saying, "No, we really wanna have a community service

agenda, we wanna be incorporated. We don't wanna just be the girl group

of Alpha Phi Alpha, we wanna have our own identity as a professional

women. And then the Zetas pushing back in some ways and saying,

"We are concerned about what some viewed as elitism

in the Black sorority culture, and we wanna create an organization for

educated women that sort of leans more towards...

More heavily in public service." And then Sigma Gamma Rho that also builds

on that tradition by being a core and a center for women who

are in a very particular way invested in education.

So they all had unique orientations, although the traditions and the rituals

are very, very similar. I have noticed that when

people tend to talk about why they joined organizations, they're typically

values based decisions. Like, "Certainly like I wanted a community where

I connected to people, but I... These are my values, and that's why

I wanted to join this particular organization." And I just think that

that is distinct from Greek organizations broadly. I don't know that

in other organizations, that people are joining specifically because of

values. And a lifetime commitment, when you join a Black sorority,

it is not a... An... A college exercise, you... It... You hold your

membership for the whole of your life, and there is even a very

intentional ceremony that happens at the time of death

that is part of transitioning members into what is known generally as the

Omega Chapter, or the chapter of the hereafter. So it is a forever tradition

in all of the rituals, all of the rituals are

deliberate, intentional and sacred. Yeah, I think that seems to me to be

one of the pieces that I think generally speaking... Like the incident on

our campus, I think, is an example of this, is really not understanding

that sacredness, or not respecting it, I guess. But just in name, Divine

Nine, I'm sure that's an intentional signification of

the sacredness of these organizations. This is not a... Just a social

club or a college age thing, but it really is a sacred group,

it's a sacred act to join. And I think... It's a honor to

join too. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people that are

outside of the Black community or outside of Greek Life intentionally think

about. It's a honor to be a part of a Divine Nine organization,

people carry that honor really highly. It's hard to join this org,

so people really value that once they're in it.

These are international organizations, there are global networks of people

all around the world that are a part of this org. There are

so many famous members of this organiz... Of these organizations, this is

a large, widespread thing. And it has stood the test of time.

So many organizations. Especially new ones, haven't had a chance to stand

over 100 years. These organizations are historic to our foundation of Black

scholarship. When I think about a Divine Nine organization

across the board, there may be differences between values and founders and

mission statements and even people that join these orgs, but one thing that's

consistent is academic achievement, priding theirselves on academic excellence,

priding themselves on community service, priding theirselves on uplifting

Black communities. 'Cause one thing about Divine Nine organization is they're

gonna give back to the community, they're gonna be there fighting for...

Fighting back against voting suppression, they're gonna be there during

critical moments of our history and are still are. And so I don't

think many other organizations are thinking about the legacy of these orgs

but also the constant work that current members are putting in to keep

those orgs alive and thriving. Yeah. Some people would argue, and I think

there's some legs to this argument, that Kamala Harris was able to

achieve what she achieved, because she's a member of a Black sorority.

That that not... That didn't just mobilize her sorority, but it mobilized

a base of support among Black women in different sororities.

And it was a moment of acknowledgement. Let's keep in mind these organizations

are emerging during the reconstruction, it's the rebuilding of America,

it's this moment where Black folks are really trying to define

who are we in America going forward, what's the relationship between the

North and the South. And at the place where the north and the

south meet, at this... In Washington DC, you have these roots taking place

on the... In the mecca of Black learning,

where Black folks are doing different sorts of

meaningful organizing. Everyone from Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson,

Michael Jordan, you just... The list goes on and on and on.

Many, many acclaimed celebrated Black folks have roots in these Greek lettered

organizations and remain active. One thing I think about is

the importance of having D9 still. Some people may not understand why do

we need D9s on a predominantly White campus? Why are they still something

that's important, that needs to be active, that needs to be protected?

Maybe we could talk a little bit more about

how it's still relevant. So speaking for myself specifically,

as a Black woman who attends a PWI cannot express how important representation

is. Like for example, I've never had a Black

woman professor, I've never experienced that before. So representation is

something that is very, very important. And that was something that drew

me to a Divine Nine organization. Especially at a PWI, I can't express

to you how many times I've been the only Black girl in the

class or one of very, very few. And that's something that is a

very, very, very common experience amongst me, my staff members, my siblings,

this is something that we all experience, 'cause we all attended Southern

as well. And that was something that did have an effect on me

in the beginning, because when you're a young Black girl, and you're on

a college campus, and you're not seeing anybody who looks like you,

it's hard for you to confide in people, 'cause they're not understanding

the shared experience. So that was something that really drew me to my

chapter and something that I think is really important to remember about

Divine Nine organizations, especially on PWIs, is that we don't have the

same level of representation, and also a lot of the national programs and

initiatives that our organizations do are geared towards communities of

color and Black communities. So they speak to us in a very,

very, very personal way that other organizations don't. So yeah, the representation

is something that was very, very important for me.

And there's this other piece of it, Tishana, that I would add to

what you just said, which is that it is about

tradition, and it's also about ritual, it's about the importance of rights

of passage at a certain age. That you have the ability to go through

a process that allows you to bond with other women, you bond through

your physical closeness, through the way you walk up with each other,

through your learning steps together, through the call and response, the

tradition that comes from the Black church, through stepping, through strolling,

which you look at Black sororities doing their stroll, it's like you could

be watching Diana Ross and The Supremes. The traditions borrow so much from

each other and instill in us this very strong sense that we are

not rootless as a people, that we have traditions, we have ways of

doing things, we have ways of bonding and connecting, and those bonds cannot

be broken or challenged in the face of racism or in the face

of any obstacles that we have. It's a link.

And in fact the other Black women's organizations that are non sororities

have similar philosophies, like The Links, which is another Black women's

organization. The Girlfriends, the Chums, Jack and Jill, there are all kinds

of Black organizations, all of which are asking the same question,

"How is it in the face of racism,

in the face of a nation that it feels as though it disinherits us,

every generation in a different way, how do we maintain a sense of

strength and community?" And the Divine Nine is an important part of that,

especially the ritual. And something I think of,

even if you're not a Greek member, people that are in Divine Nine organizations

make space for other Black folks, regardless of their membership.

They're putting on programs on this campus, and they're pulling in other

Black students to provide that sense of belonging. These organizations are

filling gaps in which our university's not filling for us. They're having

programs for us. We're talking about our hair, our roots, our ancestors.

We talk about our experiences being the only Black person in class.

It's taking that gap away. So our experience at predominantly White institution

doesn't feel isolated, doesn't feel alone. And that's why... One of the

reasons I hold Greek Life to such a high regard, Black Greek life,

because it's not this closed circle all the time. It's something that all

Black folks can feel a part of, not as a member,

but as a member of the Black community, allowing that space to be

open, which I think is such... Something so beautiful. That's so beautiful

to hear, because we all think... All Black folks think about the gaps

that are created when you separate off, 'cause there's so few of us

already, right? So when we separate off, and you join this club,

you join this club, you do this, you do this, then where is

our core? But, Jamil, it's so encouraging for me to hear you say

that, No, no, no, it's drawing us into

these traditions. It's allowing us to witness, to talk about hair,

to have parties, to watch those. So that it's the opposite.

I'm thinking of homecoming as the perfect example.

Black homecoming at our campus is a big thing. But it's mainly big

why? Because a Black Greek Life. They host those events, they call in

their alumni. And so that allows other Black students to be in community

with them. So now you're talking to alumni of color who happen to

be Greek, but you're invited into this space. You're not feeling like you're

isolated, like you're not invited because you don't have letters on your

chest. You're able to be in this space, to network, to be in community.

Some of... Growing up, I didn't know Black men

with degrees. Some of the first Black men I've ever met in my

life with degrees have been a part of a Greek organization,

because I'm attending events that Greek Life is putting on. And so even

for Black people that are not part of a Greek organization,

Greek organizations are important to them, whether or not they choose to

join or not. No, no. Go ahead. No. Please. Well, I think

this is a good moment to hear from a few of...

A couple of Tishana's sorors who are alumni,

have graduated, but talk a little bit about that piece about so you join,

perhaps, as undergrad, and what happens after that in that alumni

connection? So I'm gonna play these for us

to bring them into the conversation. Alright. Here's the first thing.

Hello. My name is Dr. Natasha Wright. I am

a member of the illustrious Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority Incorporated. I serve

in the local chapter of Iota Chi Sigma in New Haven, Connecticut.

Sigma Gamma Rho, founded in 1922 at Butler University, represents sisterhood

scholarship and service. However, for me, it is service.

We come together locally and abroad to service women and their families.

We have several programs such as Operation Big Book Bag, sworn 1922, we

have a Women's Health Initiative. It is a service for me that I

am able to unite with women across the world to serve our local

communities. I am proud to be a member of Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority Incorporated.

Hello. My name is Danielle Monteque, and I am a member of Sigma

Gamma Rho Sorority Incorporated. How do my sisters make me better?

I would say that while you're an undergrad, your sisters are there to

help you to represent yourself well and to represent the organization well.

They help keep you accountable 'cause you're not just walking around on

campus, representing yourself. You're representing something larger. And

it's helpful that your sisters are there to support you and keep you

accountable during those times. I would say, after you graduate and you

become a part of an alumni chapter, your sisters are there to support

you through all the different life events that you go through.

And as you are new to your career path, there's gonna be others

in your chapter who are either on the same path as you or are

in similar careers, and they provide guidance, they provide advice, they

provide mentorship. And those are the things that help you... Help make

you better in your career. So one thing that I hear

in their responses is just really... I do hear that the legacy that

we're talking about, the continuity through different life stages, I hear

that, of course, a lot of pride. But also,

that piece of a real deep commitment to service.

I don't know if Tishana is frozen, but I just wanna note the

big smile on her face when she listens to her sorors. Just hearing

their voices makes her smile. I don't know if she's frozen right now.

Service is... Service Is such a big part of the Black sorority movement.

And when you think about... In order to be in a Black sorority,

you're college educated, and... But we recognize that

Black community often needs support outside of our

opportunities or our experience. And so everything from early education

programs, maternal health programs, mobile vans, mobile dental vans that

go into inner cities and make sure that children are able to get

their dental check ups, scholarship funds. Every single sorority has some

type of scholarship fund. So, yes, there are all kinds of ways that

beyond the college years, well into adulthood, well into being

grandparents, through your entire life. I know families that have three

or four generations of women who are in sororities.

So, yes, it is... They are organizations that literally, as Tishana's soror

noted, speak to every aspect of every part and every phase of your

life, and every phase of the needs that

exist in external Black communities. And on top of that...

'cause I've been to events hosted by Greek affiliated folks.

They follow you through each step of your life. A baby shower,

if you've ever been to a baby shower

by someone who's a part of a sorority, a Black sorority,

what I mean to tell you, hundreds of people are coming.

You got your bassinet, you got diapers for the next 14 years.

The support when people hit milestones. A wedding? Don't let you get married

and both of y'all are in a Greek organization, the level of support

that that organization will carry you on into your adult life is not

something you see in many organizations outside of a historical Black organization.

I've seen that also at funerals, and it really

staggered me, actually, witnessing that kind of sisterhood and community

support for someone in their moment of grief. Just

the way that she was held through that worst time of her life

with dozens and dozens and dozens of people who came from all over,

and that she was fully held supported, taken care of by her sisters.

Yup. Yeah. Yes. I have seen people travel from out of state

to go support their soror, to go to event that they're hosting, travel

from Jersey to Connecticut, from New York to Connecticut, coming from all

across different states. It really seems to be something that connects Black

people and holds 'em dear. Yeah. I can tell you, my dad

came to this country as a foreign student in 1956,

and he was at a very small Black college in

Little Rock, Arkansas called the Philander Smith, no one's heard of.

And he pledged Alpha Phi Alpha while he was there.

I remember as a kid him telling me some of the crazy things

he had to do. He came to this country with his best friend,

also from Jamaica, who was a member of... Who became a member of

Kappa Alpha Psi. And then when they integrated Little Rock High School

in 1956, so two years after Brown versus Board of Education,

they sent all the foreign students up north.

So my father wound up at the University of Connecticut where there were

no fraternities, and he became inactive and got married and had kids,

was never active again a day in his life.

My father died 10 years ago. And when he died, I called the

local Alpha chapter. They didn't know my dad.

He was living in Maryland, where he'd retired. They didn't know me.

I just picked up the phone and called Nationals, and I said,

"Hey, I'm looking for a local chapter where some brothers can come out

and do an Omega ceremony for my dad. He was never really active."

And within, I'm gonna say, 15 minutes, my mother's phone rang,

and it was a dentist in Washington DC, who at that time,

I think, was the President of the Montgomery chapter... Montgomery Maryland

chapter. And we had calls every day from brothers offering to bring us

food, flowers, do we need any help. And then

at my dad's funeral, lines of Alphas. This is a man,

again, who had not been active since 1957.

Just Alphas as far as you could see for a stranger,

someone they didn't know. They comforted us, and it was... I tell you,

it was incredible. So, yes, that was why my... As someone who was

not American, he was looking to build ties in this country.

And they came through for him in the end. So it was really

beautiful. Wow. Yeah. I wonder if we could talk about some of...

Ritual and practices that are passed on, because I think, in part,

that's what happened in the incident on campus was that... A misunderstanding

of the significance. So we're not gonna talk about that specifically,

but just this... What is a stroll. Why do these rituals,

physical rituals in particular, why does it matter so much? Yeah. So one

of the most... Perhaps the most sacred part of the process of being

initiated into an organization and even after you become a member,

is that your lines can't be broken. So this is the...

It's metaphoric, it's symbolic, but it's also literal.

So when you're pledging, you and you are with your line sisters,

after you cross they become your sands 'cause you cross the burning sands

together, which means you enter into Greek dom together. So a stroll is

usually a series of dance moves that's organized by each of the organizations

by its members, and when it's done, it's done by all of the

members in a line. It's a choreographed dance. One might say it's analogous

or looks like a line dance, and part of respecting the organizations is

that you never, ever, ever break the line

of a dance when a black sorority is doing their stroll.

Stepping is different. Stepping is usually in one location in a place.

You can think of stepping if you've seen videos of say,

African tribal traditions or... Nelson Mandela well described it when he

said, "When Africans dance, they don't dance from the middle of the body,

up. They dance from the centre of the body, down," which means your

connection to the land and to the earth is actually the thing that

is supposed to ground the dance. So the idea that you're stomping into

the earth, your hands touch the earth, it's grounding you,

and it's very, very close if you look at videos to

traditions that come out of different countries in Africa.

So, again, you don't interrupt the step. You don't interrupt the ritual.

And in terms of the specific moves that

sororities do, which is a kind of sitting move, fraternities have a different

version of that. This is something that would have emerged more recently,

I would say. After the 1960s, you went from pledging to this period

that black organizations entered into that was more closely known as hazing.

And out of that period in time, around 1963 and on,

towards the end of the civil rights movement, beginning of the Black Power

movement, those were more based on calisthenics and strength. How are you

able to physically maintain strength and posture, position?

What's your sustenance? What's your perseverance level? And a lot of those

postures come out of that tradition. So the stroll is where you see

the movement and a line, you never break the line. The stepping is

rooted in one position and it has a connectedness to the earth,

and the standing still positions are usually affiliated with strength, strength

of character, strength of the body. All very meaningful. The hand symbols,

which we don't do if we're not members of that, of any of

the organizations, I am a member of a sorority, the hand gestures usually

go along with a tradition that the organization affiliates with... Affiliates

itself with. So it could be a symbol that mimics the look of

a cat, and every sorority and fraternity has their own symbol.

So for Omega Psi Phi, it kind of looks like a Q. It

looks like they're doing the letter Q. For the Deltas, it looks like

a pyramid. And these are very intentional and it is considered...

It's only used by members of the organization.

These are not things that someone would obviously know,

and one of the tricky parts of sorority culture is that it's very

secretive. They are secret organizations, and part of being a secret organization

is that outsiders don't know the reasons why

we might have some of the traditions that we have.

Yeah, it's very true. A lot of things that take place in black

organizations are kept private, which also makes it special for many folks.

So there's a lot of reasons why these things are kept private.

But often when you get... When someone asks how do I join a

D9 organization, they say, "Do your research," and people get frustrated

by that. Do your own research, but it's true. It's really important when

you're looking at these organizations. Even if you don't plan on joining

them, to do a little research on why they exist and who they

are, but even more importantly, learn about the chapter that exist on your

campus. These are national organizations, but each chapter has its own origin

story, how it got to that campus. Their members may be unique to

this chapter. They may have different community service that that chapter

specifically does. Every chapter has its own culture, their own people running

it, which makes it different from other campuses, so

doing your research is super important. Yeah, doing your research is important

and being able to... You mentioned the importance of

the local chapter, and the other piece of that, I think,

Jamil, is figuring out whether or not you are able to

feel a connectedness to that chapter and also the national mission of the

organization. One of the things that I mentioned to you

previously is that before she died, I spoke to one of our founders

in my sorority, which was such an honour to get to do an

interview with her for my research, which was on black social

and political organizations and... The building of black institutions for

the sustenance of higher education. And I interviewed Myrtle Tyler Faithful

who was one of our founders, and I interviewed her actually shortly before

her death. And one of the things that I found really awesome about

that conversation was her talking about being a student at Howard University,

walking around campus, seeing what the other sororities were doing and deciding,

"Oh, that's not for me for this reason." But just as a

19 year old girl, right? Not as our illustrious founder, just as a

19 year old girl saying, "There's something I want, there's something I'm

looking for. There's a way I think about black womanhood, and I don't

see it here in the way that I want to express myself as

a black woman. And so I'm going to create my own tribe."

Right? And she does. And we talked about some of the reasons and

what needs she felt Zeta filled that didn't already exist.

Every one of these organizations has a story, we all have a story,

and their stories are recorded, and Howard University has their papers.

You can go to Howard and see papers on almost all of the

organizations, you can read the letters they wrote when they were disgruntled

with... You can read the letters they wrote when they were

going through a difficult time and they were asking the university for assistance.

It's just incredible to imagine that they were

like you, like Tishana, they were just young people

wanting to figure out how they define their blackness in their time and

place. Well, Audrey, I would love to play... I actually have two clips

from Zetas who are current students, and I would love to hear...

You've read these letters from 100 years ago. I would love to hear

how you make a connection between what students

in the organization are saying today and then what people were thinking

and talking about back then. So I'm gonna play this for us.

Hello everyone that's listening. My name is Gene, and I am a part

of the supreme and sophisticated Psi Omicron Chapter of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority

Incorporated here at Southern Connecticut State University, and I joined

this organization in fall of '20. So what had me join this organization?

I had joined the organization simply off of the fact of the principles

that the organization has. I thought they just really connected to me in

my everyday life, and I just felt joining this organization would really

help me build those principles that I had already instilled in myself.

But also just help build me to become a better person and just

a better woman in general. And I think that ties with the next

question of how has this organization made a difference in my life?

Simply off the fact that they've just helped me find my voice,

I feel like. I was always someone who was very outgoing,

I was always very active, but I was also always somebody who didn't

really speak up for myself much. And I never knew how to really

find my voice in the crowd, if that makes sense. And this organization

has just really helped me find my voice. I know that...

I advocate for myself, now a lot. I know that it's okay to

express how I feel when I'm not okay with something.

So it's really helping me find my voice to say like,

"I don't like this or I like this."

Just really helped me boost my confidence in myself.

And if there's one thing I can say about Greek Life in general,

if you are interested, don't be afraid to really get out there.

We want to know you as much as you want to know us.

So if you are interested, don't be afraid to say hi or reach

out to us because we're all pretty friendly

and do your research. That's my one tip.

Thank you for listening. Hi. My name is Jarayah Macintosh. I'm a senior

social work major. I am a member of the supreme and sophisticated Psi Omicron

Chapter of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Incorporated. And I became a member in

my freshman year of spring 2018. I joined Zeta Phi Beta because I

knew it was the right fit for me.

I became familiar with the Psi Omicron Chapter members at the time,

during meet the Greeks of my freshman year.

During the breakout session, I felt very welcomed by their presence,

because everyone in that room... The members at the time had their own

different personalities and backgrounds, and it made me feel that I was

safe and accepted in the space to be myself.

After the breakout sessions and meet the Greeks I did my research about

the organization. Looked at the principles, the history, all that, so I

acclimated with the organization. And I just knew immediately

I could possibly have great potential while being a member of the organization,

and eventually I was right. This organization has changed me in an amazing

way. I used to be so introverted in high school, we never talk

unless spoken to, be introverted and shy. Over time, having different positions

on campus, and in my chapter encouraged me to break out of my

shell. If the old me saw what I was doing now,

she would probably be so surprised, just being in this organization has

helped me to become a beautiful finer woman.

I found my sisterhood, I have opportunities that I never thought I had,

connections and relationships too. I want a young woman who started out

just like me, shy, introverted, barely spoke to eventually be in my shoes

because it is possible. For anyone interested in Greek Life, listening to

this, "Don't be afraid. We're not scary people.

We wanna get to know you, just like you wanna get to know

us. Do your research." That is a very important tip, because this is

a lifetime commitment. This just doesn't end when you graduate college,

it continues throughout your lifetime. And finally, most importantly,

be yourself. We wanna see the real you, don't pretend, like, you have

to be someone, you're not. Just be yourself.

I love that. I think one of the things that happens when you

become a member of any of the Divine Nine organizations, you have to

know a lot of history. You have to know all of the history

of your organization. You also have to learn

History of the other Divine Nine organizations, there is tons and tons of

history, and I think doing your research is really important,

not just about the organization you're interested in, but really knowing

a little bit about the traditions of all

the organizations, it's Black History, it's important and it's exciting.

Next time you watch a game, KC, next time you're watching football or

basketball or... And you're watching the men play, if you look,

pay really close attention, you'll see a lot of brands

all around, perhaps not one of the traditions we talk about the most,

but when you're watching a game, you will see people with their Omegas or

with their Sigmas and... Very common. Yeah, Jamal is laughing because

we talk about sports, he never watches sports, and I barely do,

but I certainly do want him to know, I don't know if they're better... I

don't watch sports. This is very true. I only watch sports if my little

brother is playing. That's about as much sports I get, but you know Audrey,

I feel like I'm sitting in a master class that you're teaching.

That's what I feel like. I'm sitting in a master class,

but I loved what the Zetas are talking about,

to be yourself. So often as a black people, they were viewed as

a monolith, they were viewed as all having the same values,

the same thoughts, the same likes, the same desires,

that we have to be a certain way, talk a certain way,

behave especially in predominantly White spaces, a certain way,

but what these ladies are saying is, show up to us as you

are, and I think as Black people, that can be comforting is to

realize that it's a space for you, and you are good enough for

that space as you are, and you don't have to

show up as someone you're not. Mm hmm. Not something as black women,

we hear enough in the world, and that's something that our black girls

get to feel and experience that kind of unconditional...

Yes, the idea that you can just be yourself.

To be a black girl is to live in a world where you

are always feeling performative because of all kinds of intersectional isms,

because of racism, because of sexism, because of classism, because of ageism,

you name it, it can fall on your plate.

And so I think that distinguishes a difference between these organizations

for Black women, and perhaps, I can't really speak to others,

but for others, because it can become everything

in a world that doesn't always provide those comforts

to Black girls and Black women. And to go off of what you

just said, when I was first interested in my sorority, and I had

attended meet the Greeks, I remember they had the little breakout rooms

and sessions so that you could take out time to ask them questions

about the organization and the chapter, and I stuck around afterwards to

just kind of talk to them and get to know them more on

a personal level, and there was just that sense of comfort.

A lot of the other girls in the room, they had the same

major as me, or similar majors they were in the same program,

pursuing the same careers, so I automatically felt that sense of home,

and then we also had some grad chapter members that were also there,

so we could see what that sisterhood looked like beyond undergrad as well.

So that was something that was really, really comforting to me to see

a chapter of women... Some of them were first generation, like I was.

A lot of them were immigrants from the same country that my parents

came from, so I did feel that, that sense of comfort immediately with

them. Tishana, is it still the case that you can't do freshman year?

You can't do the first semester of your freshman year, you have to

wait 'til you have a GPA. Yeah. What is it typical to join

in your sophomore year? Most people that I've seen, usually it's

junior and sophomore. Oh, interesting. Yeah, once you're established as

a student academic record seems really important too, in the sense of the

university and community who are in the space. And it's also beneficial

'cause it kind of gives you that time to gain some sort of

leadership experience before you join the chapter, so you have a lot more

to bring as well. Yes, I think that's something I get lost often,

I don't think a lot of times people would think about that before

they try to enter into a Divine Nine organization.

A lot of times people talk about how hard the process may be

or how long that process may take, without realizing that the real work

is after you join an organization, which is one of the reasons I

did not join. I'm sure folks are wondering, Jamal is speaking so highly

of D Nine, but not anyone. One of the reasons I didn't join

is because it's a huge time commitment, especially during undergrad, you

may be sitting on an e board, you may be doing programming,

you may be on a fund raiser chair, you may be doing the

community service chair, that takes hours and time,

and I don't think folks are always thinking about that when they are

looking towards joining your organization as that time and leadership commitment

that you're gonna have to bring, but thankfully, there's always a chance

to join an organization later on in life after undergrad has ended,

but that's a huge commitment afterwards. So that I didn't know,

Jamal. You surprise me all the time, but I wouldn't be surprised if

you joined, you keep mentioning it, maybe 1 out of 55,

but... So that... How helpful is that to join

post grad? You always join post grad, many people do join post grad, some

people join in their grad school. So it's not something limited to undergrad,

and for myself, I always felt a deep connection to black students throughout

my entire undergrad experience. I probably would not have stayed at Southern

if it wasn't for my fellow black peers.

We were a very tight group of people,

and that also was true with other people that happened to be Greek.

So between that and the amount of jobs I worked and leadership titles I

held, I didn't have the space in my undergrad experience. And that's okay,

not every black student has to join a group, like organization to

partake in the community, to partake in our community.

That's something that can happen later on in life.

Yeah, the daughter of one of our founders who actually was not able

to pledge when she was young, became a Zeta, I think when she

turned 95. So there's definitely no expiration date... There's not. Wow.

And you know, Tishana, I'm thinking of... It's important that we're having

this conversation because for all too often, I'm thinking about this with

Greek life, a black Greek life, but also with multi cultural groups on

campus, and I'm sure this is not unique just to our campus,

but I'm sure this is happening in other places,

black people are not often brought to the table of programming when it

comes to organizations that are predominantly white. They call folks for

when it's time to do a stroll, when it's time to perform,

when it's time to rap and sing and dance

for entertainment purposes, and not for a scholarship, not for programs

that are meaningful. And so I think this is also a good time

to talk about other organizations coming to the table as us,

coming to the table with black and multicultural groups.

I know I was speaking to Jamil about this before, but this semester,

we really wanted to make it a goal to do programming as black

women, to make a safe space for conversations of things that we kind

of talk about more so behind closed doors. So things like the over

sexualization of black women or mental health and how it affects black women.

Those are things that we kind of talk about

with our friends in our more intimate conversations, but I think it's important

that we create that bigger and broader space to give other women,

that sense of comfort to educate and also really creating a space for

non students of color to also learn about our experiences as well,

'cause this isn't just a safe space for us, as black and brown

students, we also want... Especially as us being a social justice institution

and thriving for that, I think if that's what we really strive to

do, it's really important as well about other people who want to be

allies and want to stand in solidarity with our community. Also take the

time to come to our programs and learn about the things that we

experience and the things that we have to say, because even thinking of

my experience as somebody who wants to be a licensed clinical social worker

and I'm a black woman, there are already certain things that I understand

as challenges that my community faces because I went through them,

whereas somebody maybe who grew up in a predominantly white community who

also wants to be a social worker, maybe they don't see that same

perspective 'cause they didn't grow up in a certain environment. So,

it also gives those people that space to understand some of the things

that they or the people that they work with might face as challenges

because they came and they wanted to learn about some of those things.

So that's something that we're definitely trying to focus on this semester,

broadening our audience and the people that we bring into our programs,

'cause it's not just beneficial to us, is beneficial to non students of

color as well. Tishana, that's a real balance between maintaining an enclave

when you are free to be a home space, free to be a

self support one another, where you are so insulated from the pressures,

wider pressures at the university and maintaining that. There also... As

I'm listening to you talk... As a music professor at this university,

I mean, that's a heavy lift while you're creating these spaces for these

hard conversations, educating your peers, that is a huge service to the

university and a heavy lift, I just... Yeah. I can definitely say that

sometimes we put a lot of work into the things that we do,

but you forget how much we're putting into it. And I can even

think of last week when I had attended a meeting and another black

RA in another building came up to me, and she said,

"I just want you to know that even though you're not the most

outgoing person, you're kind of quiet. I just want you to know that

the work that you put into things and your leadership and who you

are as a person is not something that goes unnoticed." And it's true,

because we do put a lot of work into our Chapter, into our

organizations, because we're passionate about it, but for somebody else

to come up to you and say, "Hey, it doesn't go unnoticed we

see you. We see the work that you put in." It really means

a lot, 'cause our goal is to create those safe spaces for other

people to be able to learn and feel comfortable.

And you know, that kind of validation, really just be coming from black

people. And throughout my experience, some of the things that keep you going,

keep your leadership going and keep you involved, keep you mentoring is

your fellow black peers, 'cause those be the folks that come up to

you, congratulate you, tell you doing a good job and make you wanna

keep moving forward, 'cause it can be tough, especially when you put on

programs that are catered for a non black audience, and non black people

don't show up. When you try to put a program on to have

intentional dialogue, but you're having dialogue with the same people that's

involved in social justice already, and are also marginalized themselves,

those conversations, if anything, becomes frustrated because it's hard to

even get non people of color at these tables, even when they are

invited personally. It can be super frustrating. And so I'm hoping as

we progress as a university that non students of color feel,

one, comfortable going to these events, 'cause I don't believe all students

are comfortable attending these spaces, but also critically think about

the importance of attending these kind of events, opposed to something more

social. And I just... To piggyback off that, I wanna say that,

these Black organizations have always had White members. Eleanor Roosevelt

is an honorary member of Alpha Kappa Alpha. All of our organizations,

Sigma Gamma Rho has White members. So Black...

Primarily Black organizations are generally not exclusively Black, Blue

Ray is an exception to that, I think it's pretty exclusive.

One big piece of this is that Mary Helen Washington was the scholar

who said that Black women often wind up being the domestic workers of

the academy. Which is to say that when there's one Tishana, or when

there's one Audrey, what happens is nobody knows that you've already been

asked to serve on 10 other Black committees.

And so you're spread very thin. And the weight of that is enormous.

I remember it being enormous Tishana when I was in undergrad.

And it's enormous, now, it's always big. And there's an invisibility and

a hyper visibility that's happening at the same time, everybody sees you

as a Black woman, they see you as whatever they wanna see you as, and

then also nobody is seeing all of what you're having to do in

all of what's going on, and all of the hats you have to

wear on a college campus. And the code switching, the code switching,

constantly. You're talking to this person, you're in your sorority, you're

here, you're there, and you're having to constantly...

That class where everyone suddenly turns and looks at you because something

Black comes up, it's like it can feel like death by a thousand

little needles. And sometimes it feels like... So I say that to say

that these organizations are powerful in centering, but yes, it is important

that people recognize the particular heavy lifting that Black women's organizations

have had to do. If you took a look, Jamal, I don't know

if you were able to... If you saw the recent

housing protest at Howard University... I sure did. And you will know that

it looked like about 98% of the people

who were fighting against these 60 year leases and tenant housing were

Black women. Boom. So the heavy lifting is kind of everywhere,

and so it's important that our organizations, whether they're social organizations,

whatever they are, also be places of healing,

and recognize... This is for people who aren't in the organizations,

Black or White, that support is never ever... Support, interest, education,

is never rejected. I've never been to a Black event

that was about education where anyone was made to feel that they weren't

welcome, in my life, that I can think of.

I'm so glad you bring that to the forefront and that it centers

Black women in that discussion, and I think that's a hard pill that

Black men need to hear, because there is a difference with how Black

women in leadership have to operate in spaces. And I can think about

so many of my friends that were SGRhos, or Zetas, or part of

these organizations that carry so many jobs, you're a RA on campus,

you're a OA maybe, you have two different other student jobs or you

work off campus, you do programs on campus, you do programs for your

job... You're babysitting your cousin on the weekends. You're mentoring

50 students on the side, you're volunteering at the local high school,

and then every time a situation happens, a racial injustice situation happens

on campus, who do you see on the phone with admin?

Black women. Who do you see at the front lines talking to admin,

negotiating a deal? Black women. Who do you see leading protests?

Black women. And they have been historically, even outside of Greek Life

organizations. When you talk about social movements, when you talk about

the cornerstone of families in the Black community, you have to think about

Black women and that burden that is often put on Black women,

that same expectation is not always shared for Black men.

And I loved how you brought up Howard University because so many Black

women were out there fighting. And I have said this to a couple

of my friends before, "Where are the Black men that are supporting these

Black women?" What is our job to support Black women in their fight

for injustice? How are we supporting them in misogyny? We often talk to

Black women about racial injustice, but then we're really silent when it

comes to misogyny, like how are we supporting Black women in their fullness,

in their entirety, and not just in their Blackness? And sometimes we may

even be absent from that conversation. Well, thank you for saying that,

I do appreciate it. Listen. I've been asking the question to myself sometimes.

"Where are we at, y'all? Did I miss something in the mail?"

Poor Jesse Jackson was falling down, there are like 10 Black,

19 year old, 20 year old women holding him up, taking him to

the hospital, all women. Yeah. But that's something Black women have historically

always done without even being asked. They will uphold the entire community,

and no one would even bat a eye. And not getting all the

credit. No. And if you think about Black families, the cornerstone of a

Black family is a Black woman. When Big Mama dies,

they got the whole family... The whole family falling out, no one got

any act right. Yeah, doll, black women they run the family,

they run the community, they run the church,

the first ladies in the church with their hats, they'll play,

they're keeping us all together, they're keeping us all together. And they'll

probably end up being Black sorority, I tell ya. I tell ya. Black

faculty, Black women faculty, they're on every committee. I don't care what

committee, they're on every committee. You name it, it got anything social

justice on it, they're on it, anything non social justice they're on it.

They're at every speaking engagement, they done spoke at 50 of them in

a year, they're at all of them, then wrote all the books,

then did all the research. Lord. If you could see everyone's faces...

Well, I'm tired just listening to you. I'm just saying. And then let's

not talk about the gender pay gap, Lord have mercy. Y'all, you're starting

another episode. I tell ya, we should. I just had to tell the people,

"Listen, black woman are tired, they get tired of us." I'm gonna take a

nap when we're done here. Okay. Well, you're setting us up perfectly to

hear from our last person today, who is a black woman and a

black historian professor at our university, talking about her

experiences in AKA. And so, yeah, let's hear from Chivon. My name is

Chivon Carter David, and I'm currently a 21 year member of Alpha Kappa Alpha

Sorority Incorporated. I was initiated through Alpha Delta Chapter at Morgan

State University in Baltimore, Maryland back in fall of 2000, and since

2016, I've been an active member of Beta Epsilon Omega Chapter here in

Clayton, Connecticut. I initially joined the sorority because I was committed

to the vision that the founders had for sisterhood and service to all

mankind, back in 1908, and I was also very impressed with the women

who were on our campus and wanted to be in fellowship with them.

What I've gotten from the sorority cannot be measured.

I have found sisterhood in every city I visit or move to,

I have seen unparalleled leadership training to push me forward in my civic

activities and in my career, but most importantly, being someone who statistically

wasn't supposed to make it as far as I had, in terms of

education and accomplishment, I am convinced that being chosen for this

sorority and being in fellowship with these amazing women gave me the confidence

to believe that I could accomplish great things, since my sorority sisters

could do it, I knew that I could as well. Boo woof, didn't

she say it though? Didn't she say it?

"I knew I could do it because my sisters did it."

Yeah. And I can listen to Chivon talk all day. All day.

She and I are from the same hood, we're both from the Bronx. Oh. And yeah,

and both do African American Studies, and she's my sister

as well. And now I have Tishana as a sister, so yeah,

we link up together too and welcoming others, it's not just about Greekdom,

yeah, so we link up with each other too.

Yeah, I'm liking the whole, "Because my sisters could do it,

I could do it." Now, we don't often talk about the importance of

peer support. Looking at your peers and seeing what they can accomplish

and them guiding you, and then eventually you guiding another group of students

and that passing the baton of guidance, of wisdom, of support

is so needed in higher education, is so needed in our black spaces.

'Cause for so many of us that are first generation,

we couldn't do it without our peers, without our black support,

and that's why we need to support black organizations on this campus that

are Greeklife and non Greeklife, we need to support them. We need them

on these campuses. So many times people think of, "Why do we even

have these organizations?" Because they're needed. There're so many reasons.

I'm really, I'm so grateful we're having this conversation, it's really,

it's humbling, because my long time impression has been associating

Black Greek organizations with excellence. I'm used to seeing

people who are leaders members of these organizations, so I just associate

them with accomplishment. And the depth actually, I just actually, for me,

I feel like we're just scratching the surface here, for those of us

who are outsiders to organizations. But the history, the legacy, folks who

are listening, they can hear that sense of...

We're not asking people to say when the organizations were founded or to

speak in particular ways, but you can just hear across organizations that

sense of legacy, connection, commitment. It's really... It really is humbling

to understand that it's far deeper and more significant than I thought and

certainly important to the American society, to our university systems,

and really couldn't be more relevant today than it was a 100 years

ago. That's true. And the need for it persists,

but the function it serves changes with every generation,