Karen B. Shea is a passionate children's book author whose works aim to connect young readers with the wonders of nature.

Her latest publication, "A Bug-Lightful Discovery," emphasizes the importance of appreciating even the smallest creatures. It presents an engaging narrative that encourages respect for all life forms.

Her writing is inspired by her profound love for the outdoors and her desire to combat nature deficit disorder among children, an issue she became aware of in the 1990s.

Throughout this conversation, we explore the creative process behind both her books, including the delightful character of Emelia, who serves as a conduit for teaching children about the ecological significance of bugs.

As the episode unfolds, we delve into the significance of mentorship, community engagement, and the joy of sharing literary creations with the world, particularly on Earth Day.

The podcast episode features an enlightening conversation between Karen B. Shea and podcast host Papa Rick Harris, focusing on the profound impact of nature on children's literature.

Karen, a passionate advocate for outdoor exploration, shares her journey as the author of two children's books, Clark the Mountain Beaver and His Big Adventure and A Bug Lightful Discovery.

The discussion delves into the significance of instilling a love for nature in children, particularly in the modern world's tendency to immerse young ones in technology and screen time.

With Earth Day as the backdrop, Karen emphasizes the necessity of reconnecting children with the natural world. She illustrates her points through anecdotes of her childhood experiences outdoors and observations on the alarming rise of nature deficit disorder in children.

Through her literary work, she aims to inspire children to appreciate and engage with the beauty of the environment, fostering a sense of wonder and responsibility towards nature.

Karen's mantra for her children's book publishing is "Connecting the Young and Young at Heart with the Wonders of Nature."

The episode celebrates children's literature and calls on parents and caregivers to encourage outdoor adventures and a deeper understanding of the natural world.

In a further exploration of her books, the conversation shifts to the inspiration behind 'Clark the Mountain Beaver'. Karen recounts a serendipitous encounter with a mountain beaver in her yard, which sparked her curiosity about this lesser-known creature.

She reflects on how her experiences in nature and her desire to educate children about the unique animals that inhabit their surroundings led her to create a story that celebrates diversity and the importance of understanding different perspectives.

The character of Clark embodies themes of self-acceptance and friendship, teaching children that being different is not only okay but should be embraced. This message resonates deeply in today's society, where individuality can often be overlooked.

The episode concludes with Karen's insights on the writing process, the significance of collaboration with illustrators, and the evolving landscape of children's publishing, highlighting the importance of making literary works accessible and engaging for young readers.

The dialogue also touches upon the broader implications of writing for children, particularly about Karen's second book, 'A Bug Lightful Discovery'.

Inspired by a young girl's reaction to a beetle, the book aims to change perceptions of insects and encourage respect for all living creatures.

Karen's approach emphasizes the importance of addressing children's instincts and fears while teaching them empathy and understanding.

The episode poignantly underscores the role of literature in shaping young minds, encouraging them to appreciate the interconnectedness of life and the environment.

As an advocate for nature and a storyteller, Karen exemplifies how children's literature can be a powerful tool for fostering environmental stewardship and nurturing a generation that values and protects nature's wonders.

Takeaways:

• Karen B. is the author of two children's books, emphasizing the importance of nature and environmental awareness.
• The podcast episode coincides with Earth Day, highlighting the significance of connecting children with the outdoors.
• Karen's inspiration for her books stems from her childhood experiences and her passion for nature.
• The theme of embracing uniqueness and friendship is central to Clark the Mountain Beaver's story.
• A Bug Lightful Discovery encourages children to appreciate all life forms, including insects, and their roles in nature.
• Karen suggests writing can be a powerful tool to inspire others and foster a love for nature.

Links referenced in this episode:

• karenbshea.com
• https://tinyurl.com/ABug-LightfulDiscovery
• https://miriamlaundry.com/
• https://www.kellyhalpin.com/
• https://www.luellajane.com/
• amazon.com

Hello, this is Karen B.

Shea.

I am the author of two beautiful children's books.

One called Clark the Mountain Beaver and His Big Adventure, and my newest book, A Buightful Discovery.

Thank you, Karen, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors podcast.

I want to let the audience know that Karen and I are both outdoor enthusiasts and our books share that theme.

I just thought that was important.

Also, Karen came up with a brilliant idea, and it was, if you didn't know it, today is Earth Day.

We're recording on Earth Day.

My intention is to launch this podcast on Earth Day.

That'll be a challenge, but I definitely up for the challenge.

You can get out and enjoy nature today.

I'll do both.

As Karen's mentioned, she's written two delightful children's books, A Bug Lightful Discovery and Clark the Mountain Beaver and His Big Adventure.

Today, we're going to primarily focus on A Bug Delightful Discovery, but we will reference Clark the Mountain Beaver because in our next book, we actually it's called Hijinks from the Big Head Folk Music Festival.

One of our main characters, and we're introducing this character in our next book, is Bailey the Beaver.

Now, Karen, before we get into the details of your books and your book authorship, can you tell us what being a children's book author means to you?

I didn't ever really plan on becoming a children's book author, but I do have a huge passion for nature.

And when I started learning about nature deficit disorder in children, this was probably back in the 90s.

It freaked me out because I grew up at a time when I spent my whole childhood outdoors.

So the thought that now we have technology and children can watch nature on their screens and don't necessarily get out, I thought, oh, my gosh, we need our kids to help save the Earth and to appreciate all the beauty around us.

So that's what inspired me to start looking into reaching out to children.

So children's books seemed like the perfect venue for that.

I came across that mountain beaver and decided to write my first children's book.

And from then on, it's just the passion of wanting to expose children to the beauty and wonder around them, because you don't have to go to a big national park, you don't have to go to a big ocean.

We've got beautiful trees and birds everywhere, and right outside our door is nature just waiting for us to appreciate it.

So that's where I go with my books.

I want to inspire and teach kids about the beauty and wonder around them.

Fantastic.

It was interesting because my granddaughter, my oldest granddaughter, inspired this whole idea of adventures.

And it was all based on our adventures in the Rocky Mountains.

Hats off to you.

Children have that creative inspiration.

And if you could just provide, like you just described, a little bit of adventure and take them outside, you can develop all kinds of things in your own backyard.

Exactly.

Yes.

Yes.

Tell us a little bit about the inspiration behind your first book, Clark the Mountain Beaver.

It goes back to that feeling like a child again.

I originally grew up out that same.

Outside the Chicago area.

And so we had prairies and fields, lands.

Now I live in Seattle, near Seattle.

We've got mountains and water and all these beautiful things.

And I've been out here for about 30 years.

I experienced a lot of nature.

So as we get older, we think we know everything.

More so than as a kid.

I was in my yard one evening and I saw this critter.

And I didn't know what it was, and I thought it.

It looked like a muskrat without a tail.

And so I was just dumbfounded, didn't know what it was.

It just was this beautiful brown fur, like, shaped like a football, waddling around near this creek by my house.

And I could not figure it out.

And at the time, I was volunteering for paws, which is a progressive animal welfare society.

And we were.

We rehabilitate wild animals on one side, and that's where I was working.

Lo and behold, the next week I go into work and they say we have a mountain beaver with mane.

So we're going to keep it a little isolated.

And I was like, what is a mountain beaver?

So my instructor took me back there, opened up the lid to the enclosure, and oh, my gosh, it was the critter in my yard.

So I was like a kid again.

I'm like, I thought I knew every animal in the world.

Right?

Yeah.

Old thought.

But when you're in your 50s, you think you've seen it all, right.

So Steve handed me this huge book on mammals.

I read about him.

I knew nothing about him.

And he just seemed so amazing to me because he is our oldest living primitive rodent.

He is the oldest rodent on the earth, supposedly for what we.

I was just mesmerized by him.

I started making up stories about Clark around my yard because we have all kinds of beautiful animals that come and go, and Clark is nocturnal and is pretty shy.

So I just thought this would make a good book.

A good book.

Because when you.

We were talking a little bit earlier and you said.

When you mentioned a Beaver.

Everybody thinks of the traditional beaver with the flat tail.

They build the lodge.

And I was asking people around here that have grown up in Washington because Clark is only.

Mountain beavers are only found from British Columbia down to Northern California.

So they have a very limited territory.

But everybody was doing the same thing you were getting.

Yes.

In the water and they have nails.

And I'm like, oh, he's so misunderstood.

And nobody knows about him.

So I thought he needs.

We need to educate the world.

So that's where that whole inspiration.

But it was that feeling of being a kid again, like I just learned something new.

That is incredible.

And now I know you named the beaver Clark.

And I think it's from Lewis and Clark, the adventurers that went through North America.

Tell us why it wasn't Lewis the beaver.

So, because.

Yeah, so it did come from the inspiration from Lewis and Clark because when they were on their expedition, they did experience mountain beaver when they were in Astoria, Oregon.

And so they had never seen it either.

And they had the privilege of naming animals and plants and different species on this expedition.

And he gnaws at trees like a mountain, like a regular beaver does.

So they named him a mountain beaver just because of that.

But he doesn't live in the mountain.

He's not even a beaver.

He's actually more closely associated with squirrel, believe it or not.

But when I.

So again, so we go back to.

He's.

Nobody understands him.

Right.

He's a mountain beaver.

Nobody's even heard of him.

He played second fiddle to the more famous beaver.

And you never hear Clark and Lewis.

You only hear Lewis and Clark.

So I felt like that Clark kind of played second fiddle to the big Captain Lewis.

I don't know, Clark just seemed appropriate.

You know what?

It's always interesting because I know when I talk to children's book authors, their creativity is amazing.

And your thought process and how you just described naming Clark, how that all happens, that's a lot of fun.

After you wrote your first book, tell us what led to your second book.

What was the inspiration you got your first book out to into the World.

And I'm not sure how far between the two books it took you to bring your second book to life.

But explain that whole process and your learning.

Oh, my gosh, it's been almost 10 years, actually, between the books.

Okay.

Clock was self published and I did it the hard way.

You knew nothing about writing a children's book.

Even though I got an editor and I had a book designer, I did those things.

But the learning curve is when you enter the literary world there is a lot of rules, a lot of regulations, a lot of stuff, a lot of moving parts.

So I took a breather from Clark and I've been wanting to write other books of course, but the bug lightful discovery came out of probably like a 30 second encounter because I was with some neighborhood children.

I have a cabin out in Wyoming and so we explore nature a lot there and these kids were visiting me one morning and it all came out of a reaction of a seven year old girl when a big crazy alien looking beetle landed on my porch.

And the true childhood reaction of oh, I'm going to stomp on it.

Put a horror in my mind.

And I was like no.

And so we had a tiny brief conversation which she didn't like because I told her she can't do that because it has a purpose and deserves to live as much as you and I do.

And she's thinking at 7 year olds like what are you thinking?

What are you talking about, lady?

But she didn't like it so she went home.

But it kept all day long.

I kept thinking about that immediate response which wasn't wrong, wrong, but not wrong for a seven year old.

Just react.

That's the beautiful thing about children.

They just are in the moment for the most part and they react.

Absolutely.

I just kept thinking about it and couldn't get it off my mind.

And I thought, oh my gosh, if I can teach this lesson to Amelia, how many other children can I teach it to?

Hello, Big teaching moment.

That even a little bug has a purpose in this world and we should try to respect it.

And the more, the sooner we learn these things, the more it gets instilled in us and the more we grow up with the passion for.

And I have to give you a big compliment because I was thinking about when I read your book Clark the Mountain Beaver and I thought wow, like this is a lot of content.

And I just.

No, really, I thought wow, this is incredible to tackle that much content in your first children's book.

No wonder you needed a rest for 10 years.

Got a lot of explaining to do.

More like a children's book on steroids.

So you got this motivation to through a real life situation.

And that's what I always like to share with with the listening audience and aspiring authors is most children's stories come from real life happenings.

And myself and my five grandchildren, we've written 38 books.

Now we don't have them all published, but they all come from a grain of truth and When I listen to Clark the mountain beaver and how that came about.

And now a bug.

Delightful discovery.

You think, oh, my goodness.

Again, so just aspiring authors understand that all of these things generally happen from your creative mind.

Just grabbing a real instance and then turning it into so much more.

Yeah, exactly.

For like with.

And back to Clark.

He has all his adventure is going around my yard and encountering all these different animals.

Clark's nocturnal, so he didn't exactly have those experiences.

But if he were to be out during the daytime, I took experiences I had with the animals in my yard and turned them into Clarks.

Have all this information just festering in us, just waiting for us aspiring authors to want to just bring it out there.

So you've got more content usually within you than you even realize.

But once you start writing, sometimes it just flows.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

So I'd like to talk a little bit about your book business plan, because now that you have two books in the world and I've got your website up on my screen in front of me on my iPad, and it's interesting.

The one thing I noticed and I've started to pay attention more with children's book authors is you have a catchphrase, which I love.

And for everyone that goes to Karen's website.

And we will put links to Karen's website in the show notes.

But the catchphrase is connecting the young and the young at heart.

Like, what a great tagline.

And really speaks to every.

To your two books at this point.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And I.

That's.

That recently came through this bug lightful discovery because when I did a bug lightful discovery, I did hire, I went through like a publishing company and so they had the roadmap and she had all kinds of great content and ideas for marketing and ideas.

And I took a few class outside classes as well.

And that was one of the things that kind of came across.

Come up with a tagline and you sit there and you ponder.

And I'm thinking, okay, I want.

Clearly, I'm focused on the young because I'm doing children's books at the moment.

But I also have other books I want to do that are more geared towards more mature people.

And I don't want to call them old because I think we are really, truly, when we get rid of all the social stigmas around age and aging and all that, we're really all really still young at heart.

It's interesting you should say that because that's the neat thing about having five grandchildren is I Get.

You know what?

I.

I even take them to animated movies.

They think I'm taking them because of them.

I'm actually taking them because of me.

Because I still get to be a big kid at her.

So I love it.

It's incredible.

Exactly.

As I talk to more children's book authors, the one thing that everyone has to remember is that a child isn't walking around with $20 in their pocket waiting to buy their next children's book.

Most children's books come to children through adults.

It's important because to your point, you have to capture that young at heart and adult because the book cover or the theme has to catch their imagination too.

Otherwise they just don't take out their $20 and.

Or whatever the price of the book is and buy it.

Exactly.

And again, going back to my.

Oh, I was in my 50s.

I knew everything and I knew every.

We could always learn something new.

There is always something new to learn.

And like we were talking for the show.

So much information can be learned from a single simple children's book.

Because learning doesn't have to be complicated.

It can be very simple and plain and just.

Oh my gosh.

So with the bug lifeful discovery, what cracks me up is I.

My dad is still with us and he will be 96 in June.

Wow.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Yeah, congratulations to your dad.

Because he's young at heart, he's lived a life of his passion.

But when he read my buglifeal discovery, he called me afterwards and he's.

I was sitting in the sun room and I was going to stomp on this ant and then I got up to stomp on him.

I went, oh, darn it, I can't do that.

Karen will get mad at me.

He'll find a piece of paper and pick it up and put it outside and I'm like cracking up going, dad at 95 years old for you, that's terrific.

We all could learn something new and change our behaviors and habits.

So coming back to the.

To your business book plan.

So when you did Clark the Mountain Beaver, did you have a clear plan, a business book plan for your.

For that book?

I actually had a huge marketing plan.

I thought this was going to be a piece of cake.

You just, you got a great idea, you write a book, you get an omelet, you get it out there and then everybody is just running to your book.

I find that the market of this, the book world is a.

Was a little more challenging for me.

When you are self published, at least back then.

So this was 10 years ago.

Self publishing was really ramping up at that point, but was still a little bit frowned upon unfortunately.

And I found it a little bit harder to get my book out there.

And I actually had it traditionally printed.

I wasn't a book on demand and all those conveniences were not available as well at the time.

They were more for novels and black and white books, but not necessarily beautiful colored images.

I had them printed.

So I have a stack of a thousand books in my basement just waiting for people to come to grab them.

And I found the marketing was a little bit more challenging.

I got some great support from some local bookstores and bird stores and unique stores with.

I put it on Amazon as an Amazon seller and that required me to ship the books out and do all of that.

So I would say I probably fell a tiny bit short on my marketing goals with Clark.

But when I did Clark, I didn't really go into it like, oh, I'm gonna make a million dollars and gonna become this famous author.

My goal truly was I just wanna get this book into as many kids hands as possible to just open up their imaginations and connect them to nature.

I found that by donating a lot of my books to like to the YMC YMCA groups around the area that were helping some of the underprivileged kids.

He became like a huge thing in that world and that made me feel good.

So he's still available through my website and on Amazon and things like that.

But I'm actually thinking of putting him into a soft cover book this year and so I can like a 10 year anniversary to celebrate him and.

Oh, that's a fantastic idea.

That's a few times.

It does help when you've got.

I know we love our independent bookstores but Amazon is very far reaching and people just need to be available at A Touch of a button.

What's amazing is I recently interviewed an author from Texas and she sold a book, one of her books in India and she thought like, how is this possible?

Yeah, it's just really amazing what can happen.

This is neat listening to you because a lot of the children's book authors I've talked to have they're fairly new three or four years going back 10 years.

To your point, I give you a lot of credit because self publishing, like you said, was just at its infancy.

Even Amazon was at its infancy.

And how technology has evolved is absolutely incredible.

And it's amazing.

And to your point, you had to print a thousand copies and distribute them 10 years ago.

And you know what?

Here's the cool thing, Karen, is I ordered your book.

I had it the next day and I live in Canada and you say what the heck?

Guess where it was printed.

It was printed 15 minutes from my house.

Oh my goodness.

No kidding.

It's incredible now that Amazon has that vehicle that allows us to get overnight service and to have a book because I've actually, I ordered a book with soft cover and it was similar to our book.

So it'd be like a nine by nine.

Yeah.

And what was interesting is because the author used a third party printer and she didn't set it up on Amazon where it's print on demand and, and whatever printing market they're in, that's where it gets printed.

I ordered that book.

It took almost a month for me to receive the book.

And I was thinking I wanted to get the book to support the author.

But if you're someone who hears about a children's book and then you have to wait a month to get it, I'm not sure how many people have the appetite to wait that long to receive a book.

Anyways, I just, I digress a little here, but I just want aspiring authors to know that there, there definitely are advantages to print on demand services.

Absolutely.

Yep.

Yep.

And they're getting better every time, every year too, which is nice.

So your website, have you had your website up and running since Clark the mountain Beaver?

Actually, Clark actually had his own website all this time and I was selling the book through that.

And he also comes with a coloring book too.

I actually did a coloring book along with it.

But when I did a bug lightful discovery because the Clark website was so Clark, it had all this stuff about mountain beavers, Lewis and Clark.

It, it was a very full website.

So a bug lightful discovery, I didn't know how to connect the two.

So I actually hired a web person, a new web person to help me consolidate.

Because when I did a bug lightful discovery, I did do my karenbchay.com website and pulled Clark into there.

But it was, it's a lot of work, a lot of time and energy that you put into social media, into your marketing and websiteing.

So I then hired a web designer to consolidate my site and make it open to wherever my writing is going to take me.

So if I do books for the young at heart, that would flow with my website, which I already do, have a couple of books that I was a co author on that are more young at heart focused through stories publishing.

I feel like the new website is a nice balance and it's not super oriented towards children, but I think it's light and it's bright and it's happy.

And I do have a couple of free downloads there.

One for the children, one for the young at heart.

And I wanted a new website that I could would grow with me.

What I noticed is when I talk to children's book authors, they either have their website in their name or in our case, we had like you did with Clark, the Mountain Beaver.

Ours is called the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.

And so it's because of the word adventures that it gives us that broader scope to be able to then fit other adventures in.

That was our strategy.

I was on your website this weekend and loved your little book.

Can't wait for the new books to come out.

Thank you.

That great stuff on your website.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

So we're having fun.

And you know what?

Like all websites, whether it's in your author's name or it's in you in a brand name, there's always.

You're always tweaking it and having fun with it and trying to see.

Because it's a resource, it's also your home.

It's where everything resides.

So you want to keep your home as organized as you can so that you attract more people to come and visit.

Silly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And to go to one place is a lot better than go well for this go there and for that to.

Go there, it could agree with you more.

So I see that at this point and that you have two.

From what I can see, you have two revenue sources on your website.

So one is to sell your books.

And also I noticed you had those two other books that you co authored to sell those.

Now are you collecting revenue from all the books?

No, if I were to sell the other two books, which are.

It's called Nature and the other one is Spirit Animals only if I sell those, my copies that I have, if those were to sell through the publisher's website or through Amazon, I don't get any proceeds from them.

I don't royalties of any store just if I sell them.

But my books, yes, because a Bug Lightful Discovery is an ingramsparks.

So that's the key distributor for libraries and bookstores and retailers.

If you can get your book onto Ingram Sparks, that's a huge benefit benefit for getting it out there to even a bigger.

I also noticed you added as you talked about before, which I love is I you added a unique value and you're my first guest that has actually done this as a bonus.

And you talked about your free coloring book that goes along with Clark the Mountain Beaver.

So I think it's pretty cool.

Is that adding that extra value.

Tell us a little bit about that strategy and how it's working.

When I had hired my illustrator, who is for Clark the Mountain Bieber is Kelly Halpin, and she's an incredible illustrator.

She sent me all the black and whites of her original sketches with Bug Lightful Discovery.

I got them all in a digital form, which, not to say you can't print them out, but when I was holding the black and white sketch sketches in my hand, I was, this is just a coloring book waiting to happen, right?

Yeah.

And it wasn't that big of a stretch.

I did have those professionally printed locally here, but again, it's just black and white, so it wasn't super expensive.

So it's an easy thing to tack on to a book if you have the flexibility for that.

And it did.

It did help.

What's so fun about the book?

You can share a book.

This is my world.

Probably you can share a book, but you cannot share a coloring book.

Right.

You got three grandchildren, right?

I'll send you home with a book, or you can buy a book, but I'll throw in a couple extra coloring books.

I love it.

But you can do that with even just a page, right?

Because I've seen a couple other authors that I know that they offer like a few pages out of their book that they can color creativity flowing.

And I'm so glad you mentioned that, because I also want aspiring children's book authors to realize that you can just talk to your illustrator.

And a lot of times you will find.

Because that's what happened to us, our illustrator.

I said, could I get these in?

He was originally doing the sketches in black and white.

And so they were coming to us that way.

And then I said, can I get all of these in black and white?

And he said, oh, yeah, no problem.

And he sent me the files.

And I thought, oh, so now I've got this basis for a coloring book.

And another way to, like, you've done Karen, which is awesome, is to create a coloring book.

It's low cost.

You can add it as an added value and help you sell your original book.

And also you can also sell it as a product.

So either way, it's a win win for everyone.

Congratulations on doing that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And what I think is what fun is what's fun for the kids when they do that.

If they're shy about Coloring or drawing, they can just follow the page if they've got this creative energy wanting to burst out and they could paint, they could color Clark purple if they want.

Absolutely.

I mean it was just what would you create the thing that gives them a whole new canvas to work from.

And it's funny you should say that because a lot of times I'll take our grandchildren especially my son has three, two boys and a girl and we'll go out for supper and of course they get crayons and a place mat and they get to color them.

Each one of them, it's the same illustration but they look totally different with the end product.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And don't you love that because that's their personalities and creativity coming out which is what you want to nurture.

I couldn't agree with you more.

So I also noticed on your website you say you're a photographer.

Do you earn revenue from being a photographer?

I do not at this point.

I would like to.

That's again going back to my website.

I'm hoping to come up with some products.

Actually one of the products I did come up with does include my photography.

It's one of the free downloads but it's inspirational notes and cards for the young at heart.

Not to say that kids can't get enjoy it either.

I take my photographs and then whatever kind of inspirational saying inspired that I put that on there.

But I hope in the future like I might.

I love cards and I'm still very old fashioned that I like writing cards to people and mailing cards to people the old fashioned way.

And so I would like to come up with maybe some cards with my photography and things like that but I don't know where that'll evolve.

I just wanted to keep my website open to it.

But photography is my way of really thanking nature a little bit because I'll take a picture of this beautiful flower and it puts you in that moment and it puts you like in the gratitude and appreciation that couldn't have happened without that beautiful flower or the sun hitting the pine tree just perfectly to light your soul and say ah, thank you Mother Nature because my wife and.

I just came back from a mini vacation to Jasper.

Oh, I love Jasper.

Really?

That's when you were.

Unfortunately there was.

You probably heard last year you probably got the smoke where you live.

Yeah, there was a fire.

Was it?

Yeah, it was devastating because I'd say about a quarter of the town site got burnt.

Luckily most of the historic buildings for whatever reason, maybe God was taking care of Jasper.

Or whatever.

But they jumped over those buildings.

But wow.

But I'm still encouraging people to go come back and visit Jasper because it's such a beautiful place.

Oh my gosh.

It's a magical park.

Beautiful place.

Yeah.

And I know fires are very hard and devastating, but the earth does need the fires to help rejuvenate the earth and the plants sometimes.

Yeah.

And you could see because we were there last week, so that's about nine months ago, like when the fires happened and you could already see things coming back to life.

But you know what the townspeople said to us?

They said what they were so excited about is that all of the animals were returning.

So the elk and the mountain goats and the beavers, all of that was returning and so that they knew that things were getting healthier because of the return of the animals.

Very important.

Yes, yes.

What would be your primary revenue source as a children's book author?

My books themselves.

Right.

Are my biggest resource.

You can make a decent amount of money if you can sell a lot off of Amazon.

I'm finding that I have peak and valleys with that.

Depending on seasons, time of the year, things like that.

We're getting into bug season, so yes, that's a really easy time to start promoting, you know, bug light bulb discover.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So yeah, so really it's my books.

I haven't done the book readings and the, the talks at libraries and bookstores.

I haven't asked to be paid for those for some reason.

Again.

And part of it is I just want to get my kids, my books into as many kids hands as possible.

And I think at some point that might be practical for me.

But you know, I just haven't done that.

Like I have a story time coming up in a couple of weeks and it's.

I just want to give it exposure and then I hope something builds from that so I'm open to whatever will come from it all.

But right now I haven't asked for any.

Good.

Because I, I want, I want to pick up on something you said before.

We miss it.

I don't want to miss it.

Is at the very back of your book there is one page.

It's called why Bugs are good.

Just explain that because I know you're talking about this time of the year with bugs.

It's such a nice feature.

Yeah.

So that that page is actually really fun when I do the book readings to kids because I'll read the book and then instead of reading that page, the last page is.

Explains why bugs are good.

Just highlights three simple Things there are.

Bugs are good for many reasons, but they focus on.

They help with our food, right?

We wouldn't have food if it wasn't for bugs.

They are food as well for other animals and they keep the earth healthy.

So when I get to that page with the readings, it's hysterical because I'll be like, okay, why are bugs good?

And so kids will be like, putting their arms up and they'll say they know they for food and this.

And then at the bottom of the page, I give them an example of how they could protect bugs.

So if they were to find a bug in their house, how they could grab the bug and put it outside safely by using a cup and a piece of paper.

So that's where it gets really fun with the kids.

Because one little boy that was like, when we see a spider, we kill.

Not that we know that bug might be.

I'm like, then you can go home and maybe you can teach your parents how pick up a bug without harming it and being helpful to nature.

And they're like, okay, yeah, we'll go tell our parents.

And I'm like, oh, boy.

I probably want all these parents, like going, oh, thanks a lot.

Kids love that.

They're into it.

When again, we.

The kids are just so innocent and such a blank canvas.

And they come out with, I have two granddaughters.

But seeing how pure joy they are, how they're.

They are unconditional love.

When they come out, we start teaching them a spider is scary.

They don't think a spider scary until we start teaching them.

So now I've got children going to reteach their parents, I think a little.

Bit, but I love it for sure.

So I want to pick up on what you talked about earlier, and it's.

I want to talk about your publishing approach.

Like I said to you, I think you were a trailblazer ten years ago in this whole self publishing realm.

And now I think from what I'm gathering about, Delightful Discovery is more of a.

I would call it a hybrid publishing.

Like, it's still self publishing.

It's more of a hybrid where you've got a company involved with you.

Is that correct?

Right?

That is correct, yes.

And I use Miriam Laundrie Publishing, which is a Canadian company.

Yay, Canadian.

And I chose to go that route because, like, with Clark, I did do it self publishing.

I did take classes.

I was part of a book group.

I did all that kind of stuff, but it wasn't really geared towards children's books.

And I knew this book I Didn't want to make the same mistakes and I wanted it to be a more.

A quicker process as well.

And so what Miriam Laundry Publishing offers is she has an incredible roadmap to follow.

She has got the outline figured out completely.

So I was still able to hire my own illustrator because I do a little bit control over my book.

I want to.

I don't want to write, put all this energy and effort into it and then have somebody else coming telling me what the COVID is going to look like and who's going to draw it and who's going to edit it.

So I was able.

I have a little bit more freedom with that.

But she gives you the roadmap.

She's got.

You've got access to some of her talent as far as an editor and book designers and things like that.

And then they help you with the marketing.

They help get you uploaded to Amazon and ingramsparks.

And because that stuff is.

It's not only time to do, but it takes a lot.

There's a lot of rules.

Like we've said, clear the book.

Absolutely.

So I really appreciated that from that.

And I would recommend that if, especially if you're new to children's books.

And I just want everybody to understand that the.

I think the hybrid services are great.

Sometimes the only thing that I find is from a distribution angle is that if you can find a book formatter that can help you get it downloaded to Amazon and to ingramsparks, you can take a little bit more control over your book.

And that would be the only suggestion that I would make because I found with some of the.

Now, I'm not saying with the company that you're dealing with, but I found with some of them, like I said, when someone's children's book that I bought on Amazon takes almost a month to be delivered, then I know they're going through a third party and they're adding an extra step and they're also adding cost to their whole program.

If you can find a book formatter who knows how to work with Amazon and ingramsparks, you can definitely get your book into distribution or make the delivery time much shorter.

So that would be the only thing that I would have people look for when they're doing that, I would agree.

And I don't know not to.

Big publishing companies are great and they serve an incredible purpose.

It's just harder to get your foot in the door when you're a new author and you don't have a slew of awards to show behind you or a huge following because they do look at what's going on with your social media, from what I've heard and things like that.

With the Clark book, part of the reason I definitely went self publishing was because I didn't want it to take so long.

It took about four years from start to finish, but I wanted to take 10.

And some of the other authors I was meeting, like they had been working with the publisher but still going at it.

And I was like, okay, I would get in a little more immediately, but there's so many tools and resources out there for publishing, for writing books.

Even the Miriam Laundrie, she's got a great masterclass just on giving you the roadmap on how to do a children's book and how to do it properly.

And a word count is a huge thing.

Like you said, it's incredible.

It's what technology has allowed all of us to have access to.

Now that that's amazing to me because next week I actually have.

One of the things I found doing this podcast show is I'm getting interest also in bringing on the children's book authors.

I call them the dream team.

So it's the people who are behind the scenes helping you bring your dream to reality.

Next week I've got someone coming on who's a graphic designer, works on book covers front and back and the spine and those type of things.

It should be interesting to get that information out to people.

And that's great idea.

Great.

Yeah, because we write the book, but it's.

It is a full blown team effort to get them huge.

Tell us the biggest change now that you've gone to a hybrid publishing.

Would you do the complete thing again or would you, on your next book, would you do something a little bit different from what you did with your second book?

When you do the hybrid publishing, there is a cost involved.

So I think with this being having done two books and having a good feel for the roadmap, I think the next time I would probably do self publishing again.

I'm not sure that I would use a hybrid publisher.

I would love for a publishing company or somebody to find me.

Right.

Chris, if you're listening and just coming and go, where have you been all our lives?

But I did take Miriam class and so I have a lot of the modules and I have the tools and the worksheets.

So I think bug lightful discovery was really good for me because it really.

As you read with Clark, I had a lot of words in there, so I have a better feel and a flow for what the next children's book, how it would work.

But what you're going back to, what you're talking about, just finding the.

If you can get the right team around you, if you've got a somebody that can help design the book.

And there's some really good editors.

The editor I used for Clark was really good, and he was inexpensive.

But all those little components add up to themselves as well.

And that's what I've said on the show before.

The nice thing about a children's book, it's usually between about 500 and 1,000 words.

And you've got a little bit of a spectrum in there.

But most editors charge you by the.

The trick is to.

Your point is to find someone who also understands that it's a children's book and that sometimes, and I don't want to make this sound negative, but you have to dumb down the language.

And I'll give you a prime example.

I've used my grandchildren as my editors because they've said to me, papa, these words are too difficult.

Oh, good for them.

Yep.

And so I've said, what word would you suggest?

And they've.

They've helped me with words that.

Awesome.

Yeah, I mentioned that.

So people realize that your resource could be the child next door or your grandchildren, or if you go and do a book reading and you have an idea that take your draft with you and read it to a bigger audience, there's all kinds of opportunities to help you create that.

The right words for children.

Yeah, exactly.

And even just the book cover.

Right.

You can come up with a couple of ideas and then show them to children and your grandchildren and say which one appeals to you?

Because even though they may not buy the book, they could be in the bookstore with their parents and that could just be the COVID that they're like, oh, my gosh, that is a dinosaur and I meet it.

Now, tell us a little bit about.

I know you said you chose your illustrators.

I believe you used two different illustrators.

Different ones, yes.

Give us a little insight into that, why you've used different illustrators.

With the Clark book, I chose an incredible illustrator in Kelly Halpin, and she actually lives in Jackson, Wyoming, which is where my summer cabin is at.

And with that book, because it was so near and dear to my heart, I wanted to get to know my illustrator.

That was really important to me.

I wanted face to face, I wanted dialogues, I wanted all of that Because I was spending the summer out there, and that was the time I was in the mode for the illustrations.

We were able to meet and talk and get to know each other.

And I just.

I just felt that helped with the book.

It helped bring the book more to life when I did Light Full Discovery.

There are different agencies out there that you can reach out to.

Like Advocacy Art is one where it's an organization that supports all these different illustrators, and you can pick your style or your design, and then you can pick from all these different illustrators.

So I went that route.

She didn't come from Advocacy Art.

She came from a different place, but she also was from England, which was interesting.

And Luella Jane Wright is who did a Bug Lightful Discovery for me.

And I chose her because I loved how she did the people.

Yes.

And she was very colorful, very bright, full of life.

But it was interesting.

I didn't think there was a huge difference between England and America.

And she had never really traveled to America, so she didn't really know right off the bat what the Wild west was mistaked in Wyoming.

She didn't understand our mountains and cabins.

When I told her I live in a cabin, I don't know what she was thinking, but she was so cute.

She's like, so you people in the United States actually think.

Did you tell her you said, my Canadian neighbors, because they live in igloos?

I was like.

And she came through an agent as well, but the agent lived in the East Coast.

I'm like, the Poconos.

Right?

And she's, oh, okay.

I'm like, not running water and electricity.

It's not.

But anyway, that just cracked me up.

So there was a little bit of a learning curve there.

Yet the look and feel of the west.

It's interesting you should say that, because, believe it or not, I tried to source an illustrator locally, but I couldn't find one that, to your point, it gave me the feel that I was looking for.

And so we end up with an illustrator from England also.

Oh, no kidding.

Again, when I had him in one of the scenes, he has to draw some teepees.

And of course, we live in the Rockies, so teepees are not made of straw.

And he drew all the teepees made of straw.

And I had to explain, I had to actually send them pictures that teepees are made of canvas because you're in.

You're in the.

You're out in the open, and it gets a little cold.

Quite interesting.

So, like you said, what over the years, Sending him pictures and all of that.

Being able to, like, you have.

Being able to get that look that we were trying to capture.

Yes.

And thank goodness again for technology, because you can tap all these incredible resources anywhere in the world and talent all around us, for sure.

So talk to us about a delightful discovery.

Talk to us about your main character.

Oh, so Amelia.

Amelia is a character.

Yes.

And at the time, she was seven years old.

And she is a granddaughter of one of my neighbors out there by our cabins.

And she lives in Kentucky.

Okay.

And she is the youngest out of four.

And is her real name Amelia?

And her real name is Amelia.

And so when I did do, she inspired the story.

Everything of the way the story unfold I created.

So I really didn't know at the time how Emelia really felt about bugs.

She liked them, didn't like them.

Just doesn't like Beetle.

But her mom and dad gave me carte blanche and I said, I will disguise their names to protect the innocent.

And they're like, no, you can use their names.

So what was really fun was so, yes, I used the names.

I ended up putting all her siblings in the book because I know what it's like with siblings.

I come from a family of six kids, so I was like, you can't leave out one child.

And I have all the books.

So even though it is with all her sisters, she has a brother.

And I'm like, I gotta get Jenkins in there.

So I don't want him to feel left out.

And the mom.

Thank you.

Good for you.

It's interesting because I think I told you with Clark the Mountain Beaver.

And of course, our next book coming out is called hi Jinx from the Big Head Folk Music Festival.

This is the folks.

You can't see this, of course, but this is the book cover coming out.

There's Bailey the Beaver.

And of course, what I consider a cover.

Bailey is actually my middle granddaughter's name.

Yeah.

Nice to your point.

We've actually had to write some of our stories, include all of our grandchildren are actually eventually going to be characters in.

In our children's books because our third book that we have is called the Mounties Get Their Girl.

Oh, yes.

I like it.

And the.

The girl is actually our youngest granddaughter.

She'll become a character in the book.

Yeah.

And how old is your youngest granddaughter?

Oh, now she's 12.

Oh, wow.

Oh, we did actually, the inspiration came when she was nine months old, to your point.

It's funny how I just knew.

We actually took a photograph of her when she was about 9 or 10 months old.

And at the time, we were in the Rocky Mountains, and they were having an RCMP day where they were celebrating the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

The RCMP used to be called the Northwest Mounted Police.

And so they had a little different uniform.

And we got a picture of my youngest granddaughter.

One of them.

She's in between the two Mounties.

One of the Mounties is holding her, and there's a covered wagon in behind.

So that inspired an incredible.

Yeah, absolutely.

So pretty neat.

So, again, I share this with people because you can see how Karen and I are getting excited about how just being around your neighbor's kids and their siblings or your grandchildren, it's incredible what happens and the things that can just come up into your mind now.

Also, I'm interested a little bit about Clark and because you talked a bit about Clark and the story revolves around Clark and his interactions with other animals.

And I know you mentioned.

Really?

That was you.

We're living through Clark.

Can you expand a little bit more on that?

So the premise behind Clark is about embracing your uniqueness.

These are some of his notes.

Teaches you about friendship, Embracing your uniqueness.

It's okay to be different.

And when one of my friends that I've known most of my life read it, she's, oh, my gosh, he wrote a book about you.

And I'm like, I.

I'm gonna reread it.

Yeah.

So Clark.

Yeah.

So he goes around the yard and he meets these other amazing animals, right?

Which squirrels, deer, eagles, and what?

Again, the premise of the book is it's okay to be different because he doesn't feel like he fits in.

Nobody knows who he.

He's always confused with the real beaver.

And so they, in return, give him confidence and embrace his uniqueness.

That just because you're different doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

We can't do what you can't.

We can't dig like you can dig, but you can't climb like us.

That's okay.

But we can still be friends.

Right?

And I don't know, at that time, I just felt again with that nature deficit disorder that was supposedly on the rise and all of this.

And I think today it's probably even more prevalent that it's okay to be different.

We can be different.

And we can still be friends.

We can learn from each other.

We can help you grow as a person.

Absolutely.

You've got your own skills and talents and I can learn from you and you can learn from me.

And that's what I hope.

And I want to dig a little bit deeper on that in your theme because like I said, I just love your theme.

Connecting the young and the young at heart with the wonders of nature.

So now did that come as a result of you working on a bug lightful discovery or did you have that from Clark days?

I think came probably from the Clark days because again, at the time when I discovered Clark, I was in my 50s and man, I don't know how often you get those experiences.

You get a little bit more when you've got grandchildren around.

At the time I didn't have grandchildren, but just that experiencing something new in a world that I thought I knew so well.

And it, I, you.

I just expanded my excitement.

It just took me to.

It like expanded my heart.

And so it made my heart feel young again.

Right.

Oh my gosh, look at.

I didn't even know that animal.

And then if that animal exists, what else is out here that I don't know different when it's in another country because you don't have that exposure.

But when Clark literally lives in burrows, he literally was living under my feet for years, but I never saw him.

Well, that just made me feel young at heart.

And that's.

That's what you want.

That's what you want to experience at least once a day, if not all day long.

Right?

Yes.

Good for you.

And here we are on Earth Day and another beautiful day to just.

Not that every day shouldn't be Earth day, but it's nice to have those reminders of just stop, be in the moment, find something that lifts your spirit and expand your heart and just embrace it.

I'm curious in your writing process.

So talk to us now.

Have you got a third book that you're working on?

I have a third book in mind, but it's not necessarily a children's book.

It is nature related.

Explain to us and share some insights into the, into your development and your writing process.

And it doesn't have to be particularly in the area of children's book writing, but I'd be interested in that.

But just even in your writing process so people understand how you go about doing that.

Yeah.

So for a while there I was really good and I actually got up early in the morning and I would just write.

I just made it a point to write.

If I didn't feel inspired by anything, I just picked a topic and just start writing.

And I just do these in notebooks that not necessarily going to share.

Life has gotten a little busy.

I haven't been as focused on it, which I would like.

But my writing comes in spurts.

I can be sitting outside with my sitting tree and I can just hear a bird or something and I.

I just get inspired.

And so I usually always have my phone near me.

So if I don't have a pad of paper, I use my notes in my phone.

And even if it's just like sometimes you just come up with this really fun catchy saying or you feel and I just write it down.

But I do want to get.

Do want to get back more into a rhythm of writing.

But I seem to go.

It fluctuates.

There's times like in the summer I write a lot because I'm back into nature and I'm away from phones, constant phones and all of that.

But I write when the mood hits me sometimes.

And it hits you sometimes.

It's not very convenient when it hits you and it's okay.

Excuse me, I'll be right back.

But I gotta write this down.

It's interesting to me because I always ask people this question.

I say, in your writing process, it sounds like you're drawing from your personal experiences, but are you conducting any additional research?

And it's amazing to me because with Clark the Mountain Beaver, you dove right into the pool in the deep end.

That's not being naive.

So tell.

So tell us, going from Clark the Mountain Beaver, where you definitely did lots of research, to a bug delightful discovery.

Was there less research or was it a different approach?

Tell us about that.

It was different.

It was much faster with the bug.

Lightful discovery.

Like I said, Klarnk took about four years because it did.

I did do a lot of research.

And if I'm going to put facts in the book, I wanted them to be factual about Lewis and Clark and things like that.

The delightful discovery, really that book wrote itself so fast because it literally was that experience with Amelia, which was probably 30 seconds.

It festered in my mind all day long.

And I then when I made the decision that, yeah, this is a good lesson to teach kids, I just sat down the next day and just started writing.

And it probably took a few weeks maybe.

And I didn't really research a whole lot because I.

The things I put in the book are things that I knew.

I knew that hummingbirds used spiderwebs for their nests And I tried to pick the things that I thought not everybody might know, but are really super cool, interesting about nature.

So that book really flowed.

And so that was, like, in July that I had that experience with her.

By October, I was already signed up with the publishing company to start publishing the book.

So when I went into that, it was.

The story was pretty much already written.

And I thought it was, like, perfect until the editor was super duper cute.

Because, again, Emelia is quite the character.

She's incredibly spunky, and even the youngest child, she gets away with a lot.

When I first wrote it, the editor was like, she's a little nasty, don't you think, on everything.

And I'm like, oh, do that.

But I was like, yeah, I don't know how many moms would want to pick.

Our dads would want to pick up this book with this little girl, like, killing every bug and down a little.

And I'm like, oh, good point.

We don't want get that.

Because I look at books, and if they're too mean, I'm like, that's.

You know, isn't like that.

I don't want to let my grandchildren learn that hard enough.

So I tamed it down a lot.

So the editing took a little bit longer, but they were all.

It was helpful.

And the beautiful thing with editors are even though we feel we give it to them like this pristine little package and everything is perfect, having their insight and their knowledge from the children's book world.

Definitely get an editor that's into children's book if they're doing a children's book, because they just bring a whole new level of understanding to it, and so they can point you in the direction.

And they can.

And a good editor will do it in a.

An uplifting way so they don't shatter you.

When I got the first editing, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna need a day.

I just want to look at that email heading and think, okay, tomorrow I'll look at it.

So I prepared myself, and it wasn't that bad.

But, yeah, your ego does get a little bit scratched.

Then you think, okay, she knows what she's talking about.

Absolutely.

And that's why we were talking about the teams earlier.

Your dream team is.

You know what?

You can find your dream team.

Someone you can work with who can, like you just said, Karen, inspire you.

They're motivational.

They're not there to tear you down.

They're there to help you and support you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if you are.

Have people, I think instinct is a really good thing to go on.

You can tell pretty quickly when you're talking with somebody, if you're interviewing somebody to be your editor or especially when it comes to your illustrations.

Right, Illustrations going back because the words are so limited.

It's the illustrations that really help emphasize and bring your.

It's neat when I talk to someone who has more than one book.

And so I'm interested in how you envisioned your success when you wrote your first book and how are you envisioning your success with your second book?

Okay.

Remember when I did my first book, I was naive and by the time I had it printed and it was all up.

Hello.

I was on the Ellen DeGeneres show because she was an animal lover.

But that was my thought.

That did not happen.

Oh, she liked all of them.

She loved it.

And I actually even sent a book to the end of color.

I sent a book and two coloring books to Ellen because I loved animals.

This is a shoe in Ellen.

If you're listening anyway, above like discovery, I reality I had more of a realistic approach.

Okay.

Just the thought of I just want to get out and when I can go somewhere and read it to kids or if I'm out and about and I see like a parent with a child and I have a book in my car, especially like if we're coming off of a nature trail or something.

I just love going up to the parent asking if I can give their child a book.

Oh, good for you.

It's just fun to me that just is they like nature.

They just came off a nature trail and they're at that perfect age.

I don't usually get a lot of no's from parents on that.

You just mentioned you're.

You're going to start your third book.

It may not be a children's book.

So tell us the role of writing now in your life.

Think about 10 years ago and now today starting your third book.

Tell us the role of what's it mean to you?

I didn't again, I didn't grow up thinking I wanted to be a writer.

I always loved English and I loved words.

And so I.

What I've learned as I've gotten older is words can really change people's lives and it can open up.

People read books all the time, right?

To just escape wherever they're at or to get learn.

Their books are just so amazing.

All books, no matter what.

And now I just find that I write because I want to inspire and even if it's just one person.

So I do a blog as well.

On my website.

And I do that just because you don't know who you're going to affect.

Writing is very personal for the most part, and very solitary.

But it's fun to put something out there, even if you're scared to do it.

I would say just if it's coming from your heart, put it out there.

If you just affect one person, that's okay.

That's pretty cool.

And then build off of.

Right.

That one person or that one child or just that one.

Oh, my gosh, really?

Or that little boy.

I'm gonna go tell my parents.

Don't tell him my name.

And, you know, my next question was, what advice would you have for aspiring authors?

And you're really sharing a lot of that.

What else would you add to that?

Yeah, I would say, because this comes up for probably all creatives is the self worthiness.

When I started Clark, I was in this huge, long workshop weekend workshop with people that have been studying to be writers, like, their whole life.

And oh, my gosh, I became like, as big as an ant because I'm like, oh.

And here I am just thinking, oh, because I want to write, because I have a great idea.

And you know what?

And that's okay, because whatever you bring to the table is you, and it's unique to you and it's going to touch somebody and it's going to inspire somebody else that, okay, I may not have all that training and all these medals and all these certificates, but I believe in myself.

I've got a good idea.

I know how to go about it.

I can.

I'm smart enough to surround myself with smart people that can guide me along the way.

And there's so many resources out there, like even just this podcast that you're doing and you put out all the time.

You have all kinds of people from all different walks of life, from all different experiences, and they didn't all go to college to get a degree in writing.

And then you become a writer.

So you got to follow your passion is what you've got to do.

Aaron, you've hit it right on the button.

I think if you listen to every single guest I've now had onto the show, and this is going to be episode 27.

And if you listen to all of the guests I've had on, they all come from different backgrounds.

And it's their backgrounds and their life experiences that and their creativity.

They have to have that.

They have to have that creativity element to bring that bring their life experiences to life through a children's book.

And I hear that all the time.

It's just amazing.

Yeah, but even if they're talking about.

One of my author friends wrote a book about dogs and she's Alba.

How many books are out there about dogs?

And I'm like, probably a gazillion experience.

Not your dogs, not your personality.

And you know what?

We all do it for a reading audience.

So talk to us, talk to us about encouragement for your readers.

So why should children's book readers purchase your book?

They should purchase my book, her books, because they inspire and because they're always uplifting and they've always got a great message.

And so even with a bug lightful discovery, even if you're not crazy about bugs, you have to appreciate bugs on some level because you wouldn't have that apple on your plate if you didn't have bees pollinating the flowers that create the apple.

I can, I could see through my grandchildren, Amelia and her.

No, really, I could see.

And I could see her with her siblings.

So it's very cool.

What I'm trying to say to the audience and children book readers is this book is for everyone, for sure.

Yeah.

Like I said, My 95 year old father got something, so that's all good.

So just a learning curve too for Amelia.

Right?

Kids are reactionary.

They just are impulsive.

And that's the way it should be because that's.

They're just pure at that point.

So when you can stop before you act and think a little bit about what that consequence might be, then you can make better decisions.

Tell us where your books are available.

Because I know we talk about Amazon and you talked about ingramsparks, but I think most book readers wouldn't know what the heck ingramsparks is.

So tell us where your books are available.

My books are.

They're all available from my website, karenbshade.com they are available on Amazon.com and other Amazons.

I guess Amazon's got different Amazons, different parts of the world.

And then I've got them locally here in some of the independent bookstores around the Seattle area.

And Wild Birds Unlimited is a bird food store, believe it or not.

But they also sell books on gardening and bugs, and that's a nationwide chain.

I don't know if you have those in Canada or not, but they're carrying my book.

Oh, good for you.

So, yeah, so a little bit here and there.

Final thoughts, is there anything you're thinking about that you said?

Geez, I wish Rick would've asked me that question.

Is there any final thoughts that you.

Have, I would go back to.

Because it's Earth Day and my books are all focused on nature.

I would say to just remember that nature is all around us.

It is literally outside your door.

Even if you're on a balcony and you've got a potted plant, that this part of nature, we are part of nature.

And so we need as much as we need.

Nature needs us not quite as much, but we are kind to the trees and the plants and the bugs and all of that.

We can just all grow and be the best that we can be.

So just remember, don't get intimidated by nature.

It doesn't have to be a big park that you have to get in the car and load the kids into and go.

Literally, most towns have little parks, state parks, if it's a little lake, if it's a stream, anything.

Just listening to the birds.

A lot of it, I think is we just need to quiet our mind a little bit.

We're all so busy with life, but being in the moment is literally about stopping everything and just listening.

When you go out the door in the morning, just stop briefly.

Just do you hear a bird?

Do you hear the trees swaying or the wind?

And just be thankful because with the healthy environment, we are healthy.

Thank you for sharing such a strong message on Earth Day.

It's just been incredible.

And thank you so much, Karen, for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors.

Your generosity and insights, it's incredible.

It's inspiring, I'm sure, to our guests, to the simple things like you said, about just going out, out the front door and listening for a bird or listening to nature.

Thank you.

The other thing, we promise our audience that we'll leave links to Karen's website or social media links.

And if you enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button.

And also we'd encourage you to share it with other people who you think would benefit from this.

Please support Karen with her books about delightful discovery and Clark the Mountain Beaver and his big adventure.

Thank you, Karen.

Thank you, Rick.

It was a pleasure.

Can't wait for your next book.