Shownotes
In this episode of the Prisoners' Pardon Podcast hosted by Michi J, guest Rob Davis discusses his lifelong battle with addiction and his path to recovery. Rob, a Milwaukee native, shares his experiences of living a seemingly successful life that eventually spiraled out of control due to substance abuse. He recounts how addiction had a tight grip on his life, leading to numerous incarcerations and the loss of important relationships. Highlighting the importance of spiritual recovery, Rob emphasizes the necessity of honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness in overcoming addiction. He discusses his involvement with Narcotics Anonymous and the transformative power of his faith in God. Rob's story serves as a profound reminder that recovery is possible with the right support, humility, and commitment to change. The episode underscores the broader message that everyone is recovering from something and encourages listeners to seek help and maintain strong spiritual and personal connections.
00:00 Introduction to Addiction
00:58 Welcome to the Podcast
01:15 Understanding Addiction as a Wrestling Match
03:17 Introducing Today's Guest: Rob Davis
03:59 Rob's Background and Early Life
05:45 The Onset of Addiction
06:42 The Recovery Journey
08:46 The Role of Honesty and Spirituality in Recovery
16:25 The Broader Scope of Addiction
17:59 Identifying Personal Addictions
19:45 Setting Boundaries and Staying Grounded
20:22 The Power of Prayer and Meditation
21:26 Surrender and Spiritual Awakening
24:53 The Role of Narcotics Anonymous
26:57 Personal Struggles and Redemption
36:54 The Importance of Relationships
48:07 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Transcripts
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
there were times, many times
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:where, I did not want to use.
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:You know, I'm saying I was done.
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:I was fed up.
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:I had been, , I had done enough damage.
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:I had wreaked enough havoc.
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:But there's a point where you're consumed.
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:We call it being caught in the
grip, an example that I can use
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:is, , I'm a parent, I'm a father.
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:So if I'm going to walk my child across
the street, I'm gonna have a grip on
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:their hand or their arm, you know, so I
can't, there's, they don't get hit by a
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:car or they don't walk in the street, I'm
going to hold on, hold onto them firmly
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:and tightly, and that's the same comes
true when it comes to the disease of
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:addiction, you know, we're caught in it.
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:Hello everyone.
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:And welcome to at prisoners part
in podcast with me, your host Michi
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:J today, we're going to be talking
about addictions and how to recover.
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:My guests today.
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:Is going to adequately describe.
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:an addiction as something
that has a grip on you.
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:And I want you to think.
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:Of an addiction as a wrestling match.
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:If you seen any before, you
know that there's two wrestlers.
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:Think of one.
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:As addiction itself.
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:And the other one as An
individual trying to recover.
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:Now let's just say addiction is a
gold medalist and has gone undefeated.
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:Many many times.
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:and He is right now
holding down many people.
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:How do
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:Track 1 - Michi J: we
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:beat addiction?
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:How do you recover?
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:If you seen those matches, you've
seen the struggling wrestler.
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:Trying to flip the person
over or pin them down.
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:Nothing seems to work.
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:This is the same case with addiction.
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:It has a grip on a person and it is tight.
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:And it is.
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:Nearly impossible.
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:to recover.
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:So when you're looking at those
wrestlers, What do you see?
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:When a person.
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:Can't get out of the grip.
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:He relaxes and stops.
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:He'd stopped struggling and just taps out.
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:He taps the mat to signal to the ref.
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:That he's done and needs
his help to stop the match.
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:Well, this is the same
principle you use to get out.
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:Of the grip of addiction and recover.
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:You need to tap out.
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:In today's show my guests will talk
about how he was in the grip of addiction
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:and how his recovery came about.
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:I want you to listen and learn.
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:How tapping outlooks.
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:Who is the official referee?
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:And how tapping out.
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:You really win that match.
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:Okay now to talk to us about.
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:Addictions and recovery.
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:Is Mr.
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:Robert Davis.
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:He is a Milwaukee native.
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:He has three children.
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:He's dabbled in real estate.
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:He's now a machine operator and
he's also a house manager for a
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:faith based sober living facility.
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:Rob is also a recovering addict.
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:And he has been quite
successful in recovering.
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:He's going to share with
us how he's done that.
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:Now, please join me in welcoming Rob.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Hi, Rob.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Hello.
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:. How you doing?
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Hey, all right.
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:I'm doing good.
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:It's great to have you here, Rob.
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:And I'm just here to listen to you
and have you tell us your story.
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:Could you tell us a little
bit more about yourself?
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:Tell us about Rob.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Well, thank you so much for
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:giving me an opportunity.
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:, my name is Rob Davis.
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:I'm 46.
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:I was born and raised in Milwaukee.
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:I went to a Lutheran grade
school, Lutheran high school.
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:, I had a passion for golf.
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:, I pursued a career in the golf
business, uh, I went to college to
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:become a head golf professional, and I
worked at Black Wolf Run and Whistling
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:Straights up in Cola, Wisconsin.
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:, unfortunately, I was involved
in a car accident, as a result
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:of, the beginning, , of an early
addiction to drugs and alcohol.
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:I came home, from college and I started
selling cars and, , three and a half
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:years in, I never, never completed.
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:My degree was a bachelor's in
business and marketing with an
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:emphasis in the golf industry.
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:I became very successful at an early
age, making, uh, making good money, um,
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:developed a passion for real estate.
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:And after 15, almost 16 years
in the car business, I was able
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:to, , acquire three properties, two
in Wisconsin and one in Georgia.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Wow.
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:I didn't even know all this.
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:And , you come from a two parent home
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:I come from a two parent home.
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:I'm , I was the youngest out of three.
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:My parents were a little older, um,
unfortunately, both of them have
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:passed, but ironically, my mom
and dad had the same birthday, same
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:month, same day, different years.
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:My dad was born in 36 and my mom
was born in 44, , March 29th.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Wow.
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:Rob, you said , you
developed , an addiction.
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:How did you actually
get introduced to this?
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:Do you know what led to this addiction?
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:, GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
that's, uh, that's a really good question.
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:Growing up, , I was, I was pretty
much a square, you know, I didn't
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:really drink or party in high school.
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:Um, but once I got to college, you know,
I started to experiment a little bit and,
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:, I kind of found the party scene and, , I
really had a personality where, I like
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:to please people, you know, I like to make
people laugh and, you know, um, Looking
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:back now, I kind of was just wearing
a mask all the time, you know, trying
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:to impress other people and try and,
entertain them or make them laugh or make
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:them think I was cool or tough and, and
I was essentially just trying to fit in.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: so do you know why
you felt the need to please other people?
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:I'm just wondering, have you ever,
sat down and thought about that.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Well, today, , I work a recovery
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:program through Narcotics Anonymous.
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:I go to meetings, I have a sponsor.
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:I worked at 12 steps and, part of that
program and process is, , as you work
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:through the steps, you're, you're really
kind of peeling off layers of the onion
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:to uncover, um, some of those things
that you're asking about, you know,
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:like the, the why, you know, and as I
continue to work through the program, I,
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:I'm learning more and more about myself.
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:You know, the, the more work that I
do and the more work that I put in.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: So
that's a work in progress.
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:So, yes.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Uh, it is, it really is.
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:I mean, I came from a good upbringing.
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:I came from a good family.
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:I didn't, you know, um, it wasn't
my environment that, that led
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:me to, to drugs and alcohol.
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:I like, I like to have fun.
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:You know, I never wanted to
admit that I was an addict.
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:In my mind, um, an addict was a junkie
who was shooting up heroin, you know,
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:I mean, I continued to tell myself,
I just like to have a little fun.
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:I just like to party, you know.
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:, and as I've, , learned through the
program, that, it's kind of hard
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:to, it's kind of hard to describe.
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:, Track 1 - Michi J: you don't have
to have the exact right words
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:and that's the beauty of it.
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:We can just, express
ourselves we can just.
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:accept it's no judgment here
because we all are recovering from
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:something and if we're honest with
ourselves, we have the same symptoms.
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:And that's what I like to talk about
here is bringing us to light and
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:learning how to Heal from it and just
forgiveness, forgiving ourselves,
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:allowing ourselves to forgive other
people because we're all the same.
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:We all have issues.
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:We all have things we need
to just plainly recover from.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
yeah, no, I, I completely agree with you.
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:You know, so today, , you know, I'm not
ashamed of the fact that, , that I went
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:through, uh, the things that I went
through and that, you know, I developed
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:an addiction and, um, now today I can
admit to the fact that, that, once
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:I started using, I couldn't stop.
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:You know, so, today when,
whenever I introduce myself,
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:, that's how I introduce myself.
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:I'm, my name's Rob and
I'm a recovering addict.
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:Well,
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Yeah.
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:Some people may think, well, you're not.
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:Just a recovering addict, but why in
your estimation, do you need to say that?
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:Because I think it's a
wealth of information there.
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:So why do you need to say that?
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
um, one of the things that I've
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:learned, through the program is
that, , there's three key spiritual
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:principles, and today I try and apply
those to my life on a daily basis.
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:the first one is honesty.
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:Um, the second one is open mindedness,
and the third one is willingness.
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:And there's a number of other
spiritual principles that, , come,
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:come through the program as well.
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:You know, being patient, and, using
tolerance, and, acceptance,
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:humility is a big piece.
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:But, first of all, I've got to be
honest with myself, um, and today
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:my honesty is that this is who I am.
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:This is, this is going to be a lifelong
process and, you know, I'm not, I'm not
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:ashamed to admit that I'm a recovering
addict today, you know, and by doing
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:that, maybe I can, , Encourage, , or
support, , or give someone else hope
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:that may be struggling or dealing with a
situation, um, and, you know, maybe give
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:them some encouragement along the way.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: I like that.
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:Because what I find everything that
we are recovering from, everyone
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:is recovering from something or a
mistake that as often as we forget.
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:Or don't just acknowledge how much
we need help, how weak we are,
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Mm hmm.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: that's
pretty in my own experience.
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:I find that very dangerous.
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:So, and that's that lack of humility.
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:Am I on track here with that with you
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah.
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:Oh, absolutely.
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:You know, and, , the, the fellowship also,
um, Focuses on having a higher power,
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:you know, , I have a higher power, , whom
I choose to call God, , and it's only
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:through his unbelievable grace and mercy,
, that I'm able to be where I am today.
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:I was in and out of jail, you know,
over a dozen times, sent to prison.
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:, my addiction took me away from all the
things that I had cared about, you know,
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:my family, my children, a successful
career, you know, just relationships
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:in general, you know, I, I got to a
point where I had lost, The feeling to,
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:to really love or care about anyone or
anything, and it got to a point of just,
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:I was living to use and using to live,
you know, and, um, God saw fit to sit
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:me down and, I did two years in prison.
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:I got out, July 18th, 2023.
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:And my biggest prayer daily was to be able
to see my daughter graduate high school.
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:and, uh, God had answered that
prayer along with many others.
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:And I was granted, uh, ERP, which
is an early release program.
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:Um, I should have done more time.
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:Um, But, uh, I got out eight months
early after, uh, completing, uh, two
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:years and three different facilities.
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:Um, and I was home and I was able to
see my daughter, graduate high school.
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:And, , yeah, it was, it was
a huge blessing, you know?
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:Track 1 - Michi J: So what would you say?
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:I forget the president's wife.
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:Was it Bush was Nancy Bush.
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:Forgive me if I got her name wrong.
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:And it was the beginning
of the war on drugs.
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:And she had
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Oh, Nancy Reagan.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Reagan isn't Nancy
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Nancy Reget,
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Okay.
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:What was what?
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:What did what did she say?
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:You know where I'm going, right?
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Her program was the D.
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:A.
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:R.
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:E.
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:program.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: And what did
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: D.
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:A.
241
:R.
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:E.
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:to keep kids off
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:her pro I believe her,
um, Her program was the D.
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:A.
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:R.
247
:E.
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:program.
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:D.
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:A.
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:R.
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:E.
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:Daring to keep kids off drugs.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Okay.
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:And what was her mom?
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:Just what?
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:It was just so she made
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Oh, just say no.
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:Just say no.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Okay.
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:Thank you for cleaning that up for me.
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:Just
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yes, ma'am.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: no.
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:So what And you said you used
it and you couldn't stop and
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:she's saying, just say no.
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:What do you say to
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Well, I say easier said than done.
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:You know, um, the, the literature,
uh, through the fellowship talks
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:about, we call addiction a
disease, , the disease of addiction.
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:And, our fellowship says that It's
a mental, physical, and spiritual
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:disease that we suffer from.
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:And the core of our disease,
which is the spiritual part,
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:is our total self-centeredness.
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:So we get, we get to a a point where it's
just like a number of other diseases.
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:They're obsessive and they're compulsive.
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:So, I mean, you, there were times, many
times where, I did not want to use.
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:You know, I'm saying I was done.
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:I was fed up.
280
:I had been, , I had done enough damage.
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:I had wreaked enough havoc.
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:But there's a point where you're consumed.
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:We call it being caught in the grip, you
know, and, an example that I can use is,
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:, I'm a parent, you know, I'm a father.
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:So if I'm going to walk my child across
the street, I'm gonna have a grip on
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:their hand or their arm, you know, so
I can't, there's, they don't get hit by
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:a car or they don't walk in the street,
you know, I'm going to hold on, hold
288
:onto them firmly and tightly, you know,
and that's kind of, um, the same comes
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:true when it comes to the disease of
addiction, you know, we're caught in it.
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:It's got a firm hold on us.
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:And, I mean, you can have a sincere
desire to want to stop using,
292
:But, uh, sheer willpower, you
know, will only last for so long.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Mm hmm.
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:Yeah.
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:And we call that, um, a worldview,
um, cause they're not taking
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:in the spiritual concept.
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:And yeah, I feel the same way about that.
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:Just say no.
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:And , you brought that really
clear and what you're saying
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:is a spiritual core to it.
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:So, and you talked about humility and
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yes, ma'am.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: so you can
have that humility, which , you
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:show all the time by, when you
introduce yourself and just reminding
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:yourself to that you are vulnerable.
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:And you can't just say no,
it's more to it than that.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
No, no, there's so much more to it.
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:I mean, as long as there's been,
uh, people on the earth, you know,
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:addiction has been around, you know,
and, and addiction can come in many
310
:different forms, whether it's TV,
whether it's food, porn, sex, gambling,
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:drugs, sugar, alcohol, like work.
312
:Some people are addicted
to work, you know, money.
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:I mean, there can be
so many different, um,
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:um, so many different areas in
which the disease of addiction
315
:can display itself, you know?
316
:, So, um, I think that's a
really, really good point.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: I'm glad you brought
all that up because everyone learn
318
:from this because everyone is going
through this in some type of a way.
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:I mean, we can actually see it
when every year when people do
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:a new year's resolution, right?
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Sure.
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:Absolutely.
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:I want to eat less.
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:I want to watch less TV.
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:I want to get off, uh, the tablet.
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:I want to, whatever it is.
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:Sure.
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:Absolutely.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Yeah,
that's a good point.
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:A lot of people are
addicted to their phones.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Without a doubt.
332
:Facebook, Instagram, you know, um,
all those other platforms, you know,
333
:they can consume us, you know, where
we spend more time on these things
334
:than we do, , in a relationship with
God, in a relationship with our family
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:or kids, um, or, or anything else.
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:And so it can just be a
really, really big distraction.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: All right.
338
:And what we, one good way to tell what
it is you're addicted to is, I just
339
:heard that this week in one of my Bible
classes, Connor said, hi, Connor, if
340
:you're listening, that you're The first
thing you do in the morning, what do
341
:you, what are you impulsive to do?
342
:What are you reaching for?
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:And that generally tells
you what you're addicted to.
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:We, we also, we also see it on
what you spend your money on.
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:We look at your, your bank account.
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:Where's most of your money going to?
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:And that can tell you as well,
reveal what you're addicted to.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
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:I remember, hearing a message from Dr.
350
:Charles Stanley, about the same, the
very same thing, you know, opening
351
:your checkbook and seeing, you know,
what you're spending your money on, you
352
:know, where are you spending your time,
what are the things that, um, Uh, that
353
:you're participating in the most, you
know, a lot of times people wake up.
354
:The first thing they do is have
a coffee or have a cigarette
355
:or, you know, look at the phone.
356
:And, , I can remember, , also
hearing a message from Adrian Rogers,
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:, that really, uh, caught my ear.
358
:He said, uh, before he goes to
sleep at night, when he takes
359
:his shoes off, he puts them on.
360
:Laying underneath the bed so that
when he gets up in the morning.
361
:He has no Option except to get on
his knees as soon as he gets up.
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:Yeah
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:Track 1 - Michi J: And what he's doing is
he's putting in place things to keep him
364
:in step where normally we would do things.
365
:And to put things in place
to keep us out of step and.
366
:And we, or we're too close.
367
:To borders and we don't have any.
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Right.
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:Track 1 - Michi J: what, what
are some of the borders you use?
370
:What are some of the steps
you take to keep you grounded?
371
:I know for sure when you are
saying every time you introduce
372
:yourself what else it's like.
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:I'm a recovering addict.
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:I believe that's one of the things you do.
375
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Sure.
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:Well, I really I've really been working on
377
:prayer meditation
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:Track 1 - Michi J: Mm
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:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
the way that I pray Not just praying
380
:for myself or praying for things or to
accomplish things or receive things But
381
:I've really learned how to pray Uh, more
and more consistently for other people.
382
:Um, Not for myself.
383
:Track 1 - Michi J: I'm gonna break that
down a little bit because I'm sorry to
384
:interrupt you because so many people
think that When they hear that some people
385
:are going to automatically get turned
off and say, oh, this is just religious.
386
:I'm not religious, but everybody
is religious in some way or form.
387
:It's just what you do continuously.
388
:You're that's that's your religion.
389
:So, to clear that up, why,
why do you pray and meditate?
390
:What is it doing right then and there?
391
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Well, um, for me, and I
392
:can only speak for myself.
393
:Um, I know where I was, you know, and
I know that, , surrender is another key
394
:that we focus on, , at the fellowship,
you know, , not having to fight anymore.
395
:And today I consistently pray for God's
will to be done in my life instead of
396
:me trying to take control over what's
going to happen or of certain situations.
397
:But, um, The way that I was thinking,
the way that I was acting and
398
:living, , got me to where I was.
399
:Jails, institutions, and,
spiritual death, you know?
400
:, And the only one who, , was able
to bring me through that, was God.
401
:You know, so, he never left me.
402
:I left him by walking away.
403
:I was raised, you know, in church.
404
:I went to a Lutheran grade
school, K through 12.
405
:I went to a Lutheran
high school in Wauwatosa.
406
:I went to Wisconsin
Lutheran, graduated in 96.
407
:So I always had faith, you
know, I went to college.
408
:I kind of distanced myself from that.
409
:Um, You know, really got stuck in,
in the worldview of, you know, doing
410
:what I wanted to do, have fun, you
know, enjoy yourself, you know.
411
:Um, and then I got,
412
:Track 1 - Michi J: I like,
413
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
well, yeah,
414
:Track 1 - Michi J: I was going to
go back, sorry about that, that we,
415
:where did you get your faith from?
416
:Like, did you grow up in some sort of,
um, Christian or, you know, spiritual
417
:atmosphere to get you to go back to that?
418
:So, and you made a good point.
419
:The first you talked about.
420
:, you're recovering at it.
421
:You always introduce yourself that way.
422
:It's bringing forth honesty,
open mindedness, willingness
423
:and humility right there.
424
:First, you're, you're out of your,
your self independence, which is
425
:contrary, which is opposite of what
the world and what, uh, dare would
426
:say, just say no, because now you're
427
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
right.
428
:Track 1 - Michi J: that you're
not, you have to Not just look
429
:at things about yourself because
you couldn't buy yourself.
430
:she was saying, just say no.
431
:So you couldn't do it by yourself.
432
:So this
433
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
No, not at all.
434
:Track 1 - Michi J: spiritual, which
led you to the spiritual side, right?
435
:Um, something out outside of yourself.
436
:So you had to pray and meditate and
you're saying you had to spend time
437
:with God because you're praying to who?
438
:Who are you praying to?
439
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
I was praying that, to my higher
440
:power, who I choose to call God, you
know, , I believe that, , Jesus died
441
:and, and, , rose on the third day,
and, , he's forgiven me for my sins.
442
:The Bible says that our sins are as
far as the east is from the west.
443
:So, um, I'm very grateful that, uh,
that today I can, uh, look back.
444
:And, forgive myself, you know, for
the harm that I caused, uh, my family,
445
:my friends, my employers, myself, you
know, um, and so today I choose to, to
446
:give back, I, uh, I do service work.
447
:I volunteer through narcotics anonymous,
um, and a program we call H and I, which
448
:is hospitals and institutions where we
take the, , and a message into, treatment
449
:centers, hospitals, recovery centers.
450
:Um, and we're currently working on getting
back into the DOC to introduce the NA
451
:message,, to let other addicts know that,
That we can stop using drugs, we can lose
452
:the desire to use, and we can find a new
way to live, you know, so we try and, uh,
453
:go into these facilities and share our
experience, our strength, and our hope,
454
:. Track 1 - Michi J: So the name
of this program is what again?
455
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Narcotics Anonymous is the fellowship
456
:that I belong to, and then we have
a division Or a branch called H and
457
:I, uh, and those that's abbreviated
hospitals and institutions.
458
:So we go into,
459
:Track 1 - Michi J: Is it faith based?
460
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
uh, it's not, it's the, the program is,
461
:the spiritual program, not religious.
462
:So, um, it, uh, it's
not a Christian program.
463
:It isn't a faith based program.
464
:It's a spiritual program.
465
:That, um, is founded on
spiritual principles.
466
:So,
467
:Track 1 - Michi J: hmm.
468
:And you choose, it's just, it
gives a person to choose who they
469
:look to as the spiritual power.
470
:I mean, higher power, is that it?
471
:That's the difference?
472
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
yeah, the, the program, um, suggests
473
:that, um, we get a higher power and we
can choose, you know, the higher power
474
:is up to us to choose, you know, the
only requirements are that it's loving
475
:and caring and greater than ourselves.
476
:So, um, it isn't inclusive.
477
:It isn't exclusive, you know, um, but for
me, I choose to call my higher power God,
478
:you know, uh, and a number of people do.
479
:Track 1 - Michi J: yeah.
480
:So with that in mind, did you go to
any programs outside of this one that
481
:did not include the spiritual core?
482
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Um, I went to a treatment center
483
:in, um, Prescott, Arizona.
484
:Um, it was a sober living facility,
but it was not a faith based.
485
:Track 1 - Michi J: Do you
find it a big difference?
486
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Um, for me personally, I do.
487
:Because, um, I know that I was created.
488
:I know that I have a creator, you
know, and I know that I have a purpose.
489
:So today I'm trying to fulfill my purpose.
490
:I've been able to look to others,
, follow some directions, take some
491
:suggestions, and by the grace of God,
I've been able to find a new way to live.
492
:So yesterday I actually celebrated
33 months clean and sober.
493
:Track 1 - Michi J: Oh, wow.
494
:Congratulations.
495
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah.
496
:Thank you.
497
:Track 1 - Michi J: That's, that's a good
accomplishment and great accomplishment.
498
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah, like I said, I'm 46 and, I've been
499
:in and out of treatments, , a few times.
500
:Um, I was at a treatment center in
Milwaukee on Capitol Drive, I was
501
:there 89 days, my mom passed away.
502
:Um, I didn't know how to deal
with that, you know, I didn't know
503
:how to handle those feelings and
emotions, , because she passed away
504
:all of a sudden over a weekend.
505
:Uh, and I relapsed, you know, and
I went back out to the streets, for
506
:a year and a half, two years, you
know, got arrested a number of times.
507
:Um, I went to a sober living in, in
Waukesha,, I was there 11 months, that
508
:was the longest amount of sobriety I'd
ever had, you know, uh, as an adult, I
509
:was 30 something, And I relapsed, lost my
apartment, lost my car, lost everything.
510
:And, um, you know, it took another
couple of years of being homeless, living
511
:on the streets, working the door at
different spots, you know, just doing
512
:whatever I could do to, to get one more,
you know, um, And God finally saw fit
513
:to, , sit me down for a couple of years.
514
:Um, finally got a prison sentence,
you know, the judge really read me the
515
:riot act and told me that I had wreaked
havoc all over Southeastern Wisconsin.
516
:You know, um, I had been boosting
for a number of years and, you know,
517
:stolen substantially from all over the
state on probation in four counties.
518
:So, you know, I was, um, I
mean, I was out of my mind.
519
:I was out of control, you know,
and nothing could stop me except,
520
:um, God put me in a prison cell.
521
:Track 1 - Michi J: Audience.
522
:I want you to know that.
523
:It's so easy for us to just put
things aside and say, oh, this is just
524
:this person's issue or problem and
that's not me and things like that.
525
:But we are doing the same
things in our own addictions.
526
:We relapse all the time.
527
:We need to look at it that way.
528
:So that's why I'm, saying this and to,
get Rob to give us some more detail on
529
:how he was able to overcome his addiction,
because this is one of the stronger ones.
530
:So if he can overcome this
addiction and , what he's been
531
:going through, that's going to help.
532
:Everyone, so he did say admitting
it, being humble about it and just
533
:being honest and open minded like
he's doing here understanding is
534
:a spiritual concept because it's
not like Nancy Reagan just say no.
535
:, it's a grip.
536
:So is he wants to say no, we
want to say no, everybody else
537
:can, , we can attest to that.
538
:But he had to spend time with
God because you say he set you
539
:down, which is incarceration.
540
:And a lot of people, we'll say that it's
not a good thing to incarcerate people.
541
:And it's not, it can be good or bad.
542
:It just depends.
543
:But I think it gave you a time to.
544
:sit back and pray and meditate.
545
:Whereas you probably wouldn't
have that time to do that.
546
:And you were forced to do it
at this point where you were.
547
:Able to listen to God, God
does that as a heavenly father.
548
:He will sit you down and to
get a chance to pour into you,
549
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
you know, I completely
550
:agree, you know, um.
551
:Because if I wasn't, uh, I mean, I wasn't
at a point where I could stop on my own,
552
:you know, um, if I, I honestly believe
that, um, if I didn't go to prison, if I
553
:really didn't get that, uh, that level of
punishment, it would, it would have just
554
:been a matter of time, you know, before I,
uh, continued doing what I had been doing.
555
:So,
556
:Track 1 - Michi J: makes sense.
557
:Which makes sense.
558
:That's, that's going to be the natural
order of things as people would
559
:say that science and that is true.
560
:So again, you.
561
:You were being humble now, you're
actually being transparent, even
562
:now, open minded, understanding
that you couldn't do it on your own.
563
:And that's really not what the
world would say, and not what our
564
:actions would say our behavior.
565
:We, we actually try to live out,
just say, no, meaning that I'm
566
:just going to do it by myself.
567
:I'm going to do it.
568
:Go by myself.
569
:I can do it when I want to and I can
do it this way in there and it's no
570
:where anybody can do it themselves.
571
:So, I like how you are going
into detail about that and how
572
:you had to have a higher power.
573
:Someone outside of yourself to help.
574
:You pray and meditate and what are
some of the things you meditated on?
575
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
well, um, the first thing is, just.
576
:Being able to surrender, for a long time.
577
:Um, I was a fighter, you know, I had
the mentality of, you know, not giving
578
:up, not taking no for an answer, you
know, , never that's a sign of weakness.
579
:You know, you're soft if you give up.
580
:, and I think that's kind of, um, How
a lot of men view things today too.
581
:I mean, even, for example, when
I was married, you know, uh,
582
:asking for directions, you know,
taking guidance, it's like, I'm
583
:going to tell my wife at the time.
584
:I know where we're going, you
know, and I'm driving in a circle
585
:for 20 minutes, you know, cause
I don't, I don't feel manly.
586
:I don't feel like a man if I
have to ask for help, and today
587
:I realized that it takes more courage
to ask for help to let someone
588
:know that, you know, , you do have
vulnerabilities, you know, and surrender
589
:means I don't have to fight anymore.
590
:that was a huge hurdle for me to overcome.
591
:Um, because I never wanted to give up.
592
:I never wanted to be soft.
593
:And I wanted to portray an image of,
of being tough and, macho, you know,
594
:I mean, for a long time, I had a big,
big ego, and there are still times today
595
:where, you know, I deal with that as a,
as a character defect, or a shortcoming,
596
:um, but, praying, , and meditating,
and asking God to remove some of these
597
:things, you know, Being conceited,
being arrogant, you know, thinking I
598
:know it all, you know, not wanting to
ask for help, thinking that I'm smarter
599
:or better looking or more successful,
you know, pride is another one,
600
:and I think that's why God took
some of the gifts and the blessings
601
:away from me that he had given me.
602
:I had, um, I had owned three properties
by the time I was 28, had made six
603
:figures six times, you know, and
from the world standpoint, I was very
604
:successful, you know, at an inground
swimming pool, nine feet deep with a
605
:diving board, had a four car garage.
606
:You know, I had a beautiful home in
Pewaukee, um, had a vacation home
607
:in Georgia, six acres on a mountain,
608
:Track 1 - Michi J: Mm
609
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
um, paid a 1, 700
610
:mortgage for seven years.
611
:And we would go there for 10 days a
year over Easter, you know, with my
612
:ex wife and our kids and my nieces.
613
:, and I really had put God off to the
side and not given him thanks, for,
614
:, the gifts that he had given me and,
and he had, uh, blessed me with.
615
:And, and, and trusted me with, and I was
taking credit for a lot of these things
616
:on my, on my own, like I did this, I have
this, I have these properties, I make this
617
:much, I, I, I, me, me, me, my, my, my.
618
:And slowly, yeah, and then
slowly he, he, he took them
619
:away, you know, one at a time,
620
:Track 1 - Michi J: I like that
you, said, success can be just
621
:as much of a trap as being poor.
622
:Yeah.
623
:Both of those skills.
624
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
without a doubt.
625
:Yeah, I mean, I can have a big
bank account and a nice 401k, um,
626
:and be spiritually broken and be
spiritually bankrupt, you know,
627
:and what does all that give me?
628
:You know, nothing, you know, cause sooner
or later, , I can't take it with me.
629
:And you realize that, you know, life
is more than, uh, finances and 401ks,
630
:you know, today, um, I'm happier than
I was making, you know, a half that
631
:money, you know, because, um, I, I
look at relationships as more valuable.
632
:Then income today, you know, relationships
with my children, um, relationships
633
:with, , some of the men here at
the house, you know, being able to
634
:encourage and support and give back
and, uh, help other recovering addicts.
635
:You know, to me, that's success.
636
:If I can, if I can help someone
else to, , find a new way to live.
637
:And to change old behaviors and, and,
and put down the drugs and alcohol.
638
:And, you know, to me,
that's more rewarding than.
639
:You know, selling X amount of cars or
making 10, 000 in a month, you know,
640
:because at the end of the day, you know,
that there's no, there's no joy in that,
641
:you know, and you're back on that hamster
wheel of chasing and chasing and, and
642
:my, for me, um, it, it, it, it distracted
me from what my real focus was, what
643
:my real purpose is, you know, that's to
give back and to, and to help others.
644
:Track 1 - Michi J: I like that you
pointed out relationships because we
645
:need those relationships back you said
you had a hard time forgiving yourself.
646
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah, I did.
647
:I, um, I was at I was in
treatment when my mom passed away.
648
:Um, I was 89 days clean and sober.
649
:And at that time, that was the longest
amount of sobriety I'd ever had.
650
:And she passed.
651
:, I went to her funeral.
652
:but as the next few years went on, My
addiction grew, you know, and I was, I was
653
:caught deeper and deeper in this, dilemma.
654
:And, my father passed away while I was
incarcerated and I wasn't able to attend
655
:his funeral because, I was in prison.
656
:Track 1 - Michi J: When you
said, forgiving yourself
657
:because I have, you know, I hear
that a lot and it makes sense.
658
:So were you angry at yourself?
659
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah.
660
:I was angry at myself.
661
:I was, uh, disappointed at myself,
um, for not just, you know, letting
662
:me down, but letting my parents down,
uh, letting my family down, letting my
663
:children down, being absent, you know,
missing, uh, school events and, uh, a
664
:number of things that I had participated
in, you know, uh, in the years prior.
665
:So, it's, it's like a friend of mine
told me once, um, it's easier to, it's
666
:easier to look out the window than it
is to look in the mirror, you know, um,
667
:and you know, it's so true, you know,
but regarding the forgiveness piece,
668
:you know, I have to realize that I am
forgiven, you know, and in order for,
669
:uh, I've got to accept that, you know,
God has forgiven me for what I've done.
670
:And I'm not honoring him.
671
:If I'm not forgiving myself, you know,
it's kind of, in my eyes, it's, it's
672
:somewhat disrespectful to God that he
laid down his life to forgive me for my
673
:sins, for my wrongdoings, for my mess.
674
:But it would be, selfish and self
centered of me to not forgive myself,
675
:to put myself in a greater regard
than, Then he is, you know, cause
676
:he's already told me it's over.
677
:It's done.
678
:It's you're forgiven.
679
:So, but for a long time now that was hard
to do because I, I mean, I couldn't, I
680
:couldn't apologize to my mom anymore.
681
:I couldn't apologize to my dad.
682
:He couldn't see me clean and
sober, you know, before he passed.
683
:So, um, so yeah, that was difficult.
684
:That was a challenge.
685
:Track 1 - Michi J: this is very good.
686
:I like everything you've brought up
now because relationships are the
687
:most important like you said and a
lot of times we our relationships are
688
:broken and our the main relationship
is with God, I would believe
689
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
right.
690
:Track 1 - Michi J: and when we break off
relationships, we lose that intimacy.
691
:We tend to run away from
we tend to hide and.
692
:Run away from God instead
of running to him.
693
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Yeah, I, uh, I mean, I, I ran away from
694
:him for years, you know, I mean, and
it's, it doesn't make sense when you
695
:look back at it because here he is.
696
:You know, blessed me with a
number of gifts, you know, um,
697
:family, children, uh, at that time
properties, uh, successful career,
698
:you know, and I wasn't, I wasn't, um,
699
:showing my gratitude, you know,
I wasn't taking care of the
700
:things that he entrusted me with.
701
:You know, at the time when I should
have been, uh, closest to him, you know,
702
:showing my appreciation and thanking
him for the many, many blessings
703
:that he had given me, you know, um,
I was consumed with me and myself
704
:and, and taking credit for, uh, the
things that I, that I had been given.
705
:I got them for myself when in all
reality I had done nothing, you
706
:know, he had provided them for me
707
:Track 1 - Michi J: Yeah, we do live in
that delusion, at times, and it's a
708
:lot of people still stuck there, I even
go in and out myself, I keep reminding
709
:myself, and I like how you started
off, like, I am a recovering addict.
710
:Maybe we all should say that.
711
:And so we can keep reminding
ourselves that it's not us.
712
:And.
713
:Everything, everything is related to
the higher power in him, allowing us
714
:to be able to do the functions that
we do, even the simplest of things.
715
:And that keeps us in that keeps me and
I'm hearing it in , your conversation
716
:as well, that this relationship
with, the higher power with God.
717
:Because.
718
:In our estimation, what we're seeing,
he's the only way and that's what your
719
:recovery has, done from you is get you
right back to the nitty gritty and what's
720
:really important and actually it's a,
I call that really a, a good thing that
721
:happened to you, so to speak, because.
722
:It actually brought you into a
right relationship and understanding
723
:just how, just how weak you are.
724
:Just how weak I am.
725
:I've noticed myself.
726
:, and that's, when you're
really alive and really.
727
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Amen.
728
:Yeah, um, one of the things That
I've said for for the last three
729
:years now is that God brought me
730
:And N.
731
:A.
732
:has brought me back to God.
733
:So, um, I'm, I'm very grateful for, for
the opportunity, for my freedom, for
734
:my clean time, for the fellowship.
735
:You know, , for HTR, you know,
um, I had lost all three of
736
:my homes, , in my addiction.
737
:And, um, when I was coming to the end of
my sentence, I, I didn't have anywhere
738
:to go, you know, and, um, I had gotten
in touch with, , my old financial
739
:advisor and, He was perplexed to say
the least to find out where I was and I
740
:had mentioned to him that I was wanting
to pursue a faith based sober living
741
:when I got released and He put me in
touch With, , LT Austin and Bob Wolf,
742
:who, , had just recently, the year
before started HTR hope to restoration.
743
:It was a blessing that,, God
put that on my heart to call.
744
:Dan Detloff, and, I got in touch
with, LT and Bob, and, they came and
745
:picked me up at Black River Falls,
three hours away, and, brought me to,
746
:HTR, and I've been here ever since.
747
:Track 1 - Michi J: Wow, this is , a great
comeback story and it's amazing what God
748
:can do and take us at our lowest points.
749
:So people in our audience, please
know it's, it's never too late.
750
:You just turn to him and and he
was sending you the right people
751
:and the people will come get you
752
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
Amen.
753
:Track 1 - Michi J: So and you I believe
because of your experience it helps you
754
:be relatable to everyone because everyone
have some sort of addiction and Just
755
:hearing your story and how you got out.
756
:I like how you mentioned that you're
much happier than when you were, you
757
:had the money because we see people
all the time to have a lot of money.
758
:They're never satisfied.
759
:, they always want more.
760
:Even though they have ton of stuff,
but , they're never satisfied.
761
:,
GMT:
762
:discriminate, , age, race, gender,
sex, sexuality, creed, you know, , , it
763
:doesn't matter, I mean, anyone,
uh, anyone can, uh, can fall into
764
:that grip, you know, at any time.
765
:And like we talked on
in a number of areas,
766
:so today three things I really try
and do or stay away from, you know,
767
:certain people, certain places and
certain things, you know, um, I try and
768
:stay connected with, the fellowship,
you know, , I try and give back.
769
:I try and do service
work, here at the house.
770
:We have a Bible study, you know, we're
connected with, with so many different,
771
:positive opportunities and relationships
, success is, all about your determination,
772
:you know, how bad you want something
and if you're willing to put the work
773
:in to get it, and one of the things
that I've, I've, I've constantly
774
:prayed for too, is that God does not
allow me to forget the pain and the
775
:wreckage that I caused because I never
want to go back, to that way of life.
776
:I constantly want to remember, the things
that I went through, the things that
777
:I put other people through, I want to
remember the pain, you know, so it acts as
778
:fuel for me to keep, my recovery first.
779
:Track 1 - Michi J: I thank you so
much, Rob, for being here and talking
780
:about recovery and how you actually are
successful at it and just giving us the
781
:knowledge that you don't have to come
from a poor background, you can come
782
:from a very successful background and end
up in this type of predicament because.
783
:Anybody could be there.
784
:So is there anything else you
want to say to the audience
785
:before we wrap this up today.
786
:GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
I just want to say thank you, MeTJ.
787
:I appreciate, , the opportunity, , to
share my story and, just keep God first,
788
:you know, if you're struggling with a
substance, alcohol or drugs, you don't
789
:have to use again, there's programs
out there, there's people out there
790
:that, will help and support you, , and,
will help you with your recovery.
791
:Track 1 - Michi J: ,thank you so much.
792
:Thank you everyone for listening and may
you have a week filled with blessings..
