Shownotes
- Personas vs. Authenticity: Will discusses the importance of moving from performance-based personas to true authenticity. By embracing one’s true self beyond the act, he found a way to connect better with audiences while maintaining his own peace of mind.
- Storytelling as a Powerful Tool: We dive into how storytelling forms the backbone of impactful communication. Will and Larry share personal anecdotes, emphasizing the transformative power of sharing genuine stories not just for business, but to connect on a human level.
- Embracing Vulnerability: We all explore how embracing vulnerability can strengthen connections. Sharing personal struggles and hardships, they noted, can inspire others and foster an environment of empathy and understanding.
- The Influence of Personal Experience: Will and Larry reflect on how personal experiences, whether it be loss or overcoming substance abuse, shape their professional stories and thereby their brands. Authentic experiences serve as a bridge to audience connection.
- Building and Engaging a Community: Will provides insight into leveraging platforms like LinkedIn for community building and discusses the importance of creating content that truly resonates. He shares his approach to maintaining an engaged and responsive network, using platforms like newsletters and community forums for genuine interaction.
Transcripts
All right, what is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts.
Sara Lohse [:And I'm Sara Lohse. And this is Branded: your comprehensive guide to creative branding.
Larry Roberts [:And on this, what should be a very, very fun episode of the podcast, we have someone that Sara has just been a huge fan of since she was a wee little, little lady. So it's awesome to have him here. His name is Will Greenblatt. Will is. He's a recovering child actor. Will started acting at the age of seven years old, starring in the Homecoming with Oscar winner Ann Bancroft. He graduated from theater school in 2010, but hated being a working adult actor, so he quit. He moved to Spain to teach English before co founding an education company in China.
Larry Roberts [:Man, he's all over the world. He used his background in acting, teaching and entrepreneurship to co found out loudspeaker school, which, based on my reading of this, this bio, I could probably attend. It's an agency of actors teaching public speaking skills to entrepreneurs and executives. And with that, Will, thank you so much for joining us today.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, thanks for having me. I love doing these and, and I'm excited to be with you guys.
Sara Lohse [:More importantly, he was Sheldon on Life with Derek on Disney Channel.
Will Greenblatt [:Claim to fame.
Larry Roberts [:I have, I gotta be honest, I mean, I'm, I'm in a totally different demographic here, so I'm, I'm 52, so I'm not even familiar with the show. And I think honestly, my kids were too old to be familiar with the show. That's how. That's.
Sara Lohse [:No, your kids are like my age.
Larry Roberts [:My youngest is older than you.
Will Greenblatt [:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's like a later millennial. It was like a later millennial kind of thing. Like people my age were a bit too old for it, I feel like. But the, the younger millennials were, were seem to be into it. I.
Sara Lohse [:What was it? It was like 2010, I think, or like.
Will Greenblatt [:Oh, yeah, even before that. The two seasons I was on, I think were in 2008, 2009 maybe. Okay, yeah.
Sara Lohse [:So if anyone doesn't know what life.
Will Greenblatt [:Derek is, even before that, it was like mid 2000s, because I think it was like 2006. They wrote me out of the show by saying my character was going to go move out east to go to school because that's what actually was happening for me. I went, I went to Halifax. I did a year of, of university. So they wrote me out. They sent my character to Newfoundland as a little like shout out to the Maritimes, but yeah, that. So that was mid 2000s. I was a much more handsome person and less tired looking all the time.
Larry Roberts [:I can relate. I can relate. We.
Sara Lohse [:We literally got Will on the show because I messaged him on LinkedIn. Because I have had burning questions about life with Derek for the past. That would be now 10 years. Because if anyone has seen that show, you know that. That is the show about two step siblings with just really uncomfortable, palpable sexual tension.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, yeah. It's sort of like a. A precursor to all the. The trends in pornography that people seem to be going on that, you know.
Larry Roberts [:Hold on, hold on. I gotta put myself on blast here, because as an early teen, I found out I had a stepsister from my stepdad.
Sara Lohse [:Oh, God. I don't think we want to have this on the show.
Larry Roberts [:No, no, it didn't. We didn't get all Jerry Springer, but. But we were both just hitting that whole puberty stage of life and we were spending a little too much time playing house and this and that, and she didn't live with us for very long, so nothing ever happened. I swear, nothing ever happened. But, yeah, that. That whole thing there was. I'm just saying it could happen, so. And there goes all my followers.
Larry Roberts [:Yeah, I'm.
Sara Lohse [:Get the authorities involved. You're on a list somewhere now.
Will Greenblatt [:Terrible. The weird. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna out my wife, although I think she's probably fine with this. She and her friends have a book club and they read a lot of romances and like, you know, and so there's always these weird things in the romances with step siblings.
Larry Roberts [:Yeah.
Will Greenblatt [:Like, there's. It just. It's constant that there's this thing, and I'm just like, why is this such a big thing? And. And I. I personally do not get it. So, you know, but I didn't get it either.
Larry Roberts [:I didn't understand it. I didn't get. Yeah.
Sara Lohse [:Did you guys meet because, like, she slid in your DMs at hoping to, like, be introduced to Derek?
Will Greenblatt [:Absolutely not. Although that probably. That probably has happened more times than I can even remember. But I don't actually. I never get really, like, people sliding into my DMs. It sounds like such a cool thing to happen. I've always heard of it happening, and it doesn't happen to me. I don't get the sliding in the dm.
Larry Roberts [:Don't feel bad, bro. I'm not even a celebrity. And.
Will Greenblatt [:And I would love that. I would love someone to slide into a date. Everybody just barges into my DMs with something to Sell me.
Sara Lohse [:Yeah, I feel like I kind of slid. Not in a, like, hitting on way, which is how usually they are.
Will Greenblatt [:But yours was really smooth, I have to say.
Sara Lohse [:I think my opener was, like, super interested in what you're doing now. Totally. But can we talk about life with Derek circa 2006?
Will Greenblatt [:And that's awesome, because honestly, like, on LinkedIn, when somebody comes as a human being, that's my favorite. I hate when somebody's just like, hey, I love what you're doing, and I'm looking to expand my circle with other interesting members and gain insights. I'm just like, okay, what do you have to sell me? Tell me about it. And probably the answer.
Sara Lohse [:Slap.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, exactly.
Larry Roberts [:And so I don't even acknowledge them.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah. And I usually just ignore those, but. But I love the way that you. That you slid. So I would say, Sara, you're one of my first actual slidings. Yeah, it was. It was lovely. But no, I met my wife on Tinder.
Will Greenblatt [:Modern. Modern Love Story.
Larry Roberts [:Oh, wow.
Will Greenblatt [:Well, because she. She. Yeah. Didn't, you know, know anything about who I was. Not that, like, anybody does, but. Although, you know, like, once in a while when I was in the dating scene, some people would recognize very often, but she. We. We matched because we were.
Will Greenblatt [:We were. We liked each other's vibe. And I almost blew it because I had an old iPhone that would double and triple send messages. So I'd be like, hey, how's it going? And then my phone would go, hey, how's it going? Hey, how's it going? And send her, like, three of the same messages. So she thought I was a serial killer, and she really did not want to talk to me at first. And then finally we got through that part. But, yeah, we were. We were an algorithm match.
Larry Roberts [:That's too funny, man. I've got a couple. They're friends of mine that they met on Match, like, way back when Match first was out, like, when Internet dating was new. And really it was just a hookup platform, you know, I mean, it was. And it was kind of scary, but. And we used to make fun of him, but, man, they've been married now for, And I'll say 25 years, you know, like, it's. It was way back. I mean, maybe it wasn't Match.
Larry Roberts [:I don't know if, you know, if match was around 25 years ago, but they've been married 20 plus years, and it was one of the. One of the first ones. Yeah, but it's great. I mean, it's compatible.
Will Greenblatt [:It doesn't matter how and where you meet. You know, some people, 100 people meet at work, Some people meet in a pumpkin patch. I don't know. You've seen movies? I don't know what it is. Yeah, it just happens. Yeah.
Larry Roberts [:Hearts pop up and everything's good. So. Well, hey, man, you know, well, this is a very fun conversation. We typically talk about, about branding on the branded podcast and do. And something that that you've done is build a tremendous brand. Right. And not only were you a successful child actor, but you're an amazing public speaker. You've spoke at like Google and Wayfair and ReMax and Boston Dynamics.
Larry Roberts [:I mean, all these massive, massive companies. And you've helped your clients win, what, $350 million in investments and you've won deals on Dragon's Den, which, if you don't know what Dragons Den. Isn't that the Australian version of Shark Tank?
Will Greenblatt [:Canadian. Well, yeah, British Canadian, probably Australian too. I think everywhere outside the States calls it Dragon's Dent, but gotcha.
Larry Roberts [:So, but for those of you that aren't familiar with Dragon's Den, it's very, very similar to Shark Tank. Basically the exact same thing, as a matter of fact. But yeah, man, and you're a recording musician. You do all kinds of stuff. So talk to us a little bit about how did the child acting play a role in building such a well established and successful brand? Or did you really leave all that behind and focus on entrepreneurship to find where you're, where you're at today?
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, I would say probably the second part of your question is the answer more than the acting helping me build a brand. I have friends who have built brands through acting, and that's because they're on shows that people watch and then they get the fans come from the show to their Instagram or whatever it is. I never really had that. I kind of built my brand by posting videos and written content on LinkedIn and, and that's how I was able to get all these opportunities. So for me. But I think that the acting background and the theater school training that I was lucky enough to get helped me understand how to tell a story and obviously how to speak. So I've always understood that people connect to stories and personal stories, and I've always been the type of person who's understood that if you can make a connection with somebody, it's much more likely that you can get. You can work with them and the people work with who they like.
Will Greenblatt [:So I kind of knew that from acting even as a kid. I would Walk into an audition room and I know if I can get them to like me, I'm going to get the part even if I'm not, you know, whatever, the best actor or something. I had that sense even as a seven year old kid. Likability is currency. Then as I grew up I realized this is all, this is also keeping me at a bit of a distance with people because I'm performing to be liked. I'm not being real with people. I'm good at that. I can get people to like me, but I'm not connecting with people because I'm not being who I truly am.
Will Greenblatt [:And then my close friends would kind of notice that and they would see me like saying one thing to one person and being different in different situations. They would call me out and I would get embarrassed, I would deny it. But I, I really felt after a while like I'm not, I don't know who I am. Like, I'm just kind of this, you know, weird shapeshifter. So I, I, I think I started taking that seriously a few years ago and, and like going to therapy and trying to be better with myself and who I am and parts of myself that I was that I didn't like. And now I've realized that if I can take those, that likability skill that I got from being an actor, but infuse it with a desire to be real and to allow people to not like me if I'm not their cup of tea and to be more true to myself, then, then not only can I be more successful in business, but I can actually just sleep better at night and I can actually feel better about what I'm doing in the world. So like, to me, that's why I say recovering child actor because being a child actor was great, but it was this fake, weird performative thing that I didn't want to fully embody anymore. So I was like, okay, I've got to find who I am and stop performing so much.
Will Greenblatt [:So I kind of, I feel like now I have the best of both worlds where I have that skill set. But I just try to, when I speak on stage, when I try to write on LinkedIn and connect with you guys, like I'm trying to, like, what do I really want to say? How do I really want to say it? Not in a way that's going to make me look good, but that's real and true.
Sara Lohse [:Larry. Okay, did you think what I was thinking when he was talking? How I think it was pod fest, like two or three years ago, when you take. You took off your red hat, it was just you and me, and it actually. I could, like, see the difference. Like, you were taking off, like, this whole Persona, right? Yeah, because that was like. That was like your. It's not even acting because it is you, but it was just you in that situation.
Larry Roberts [:It's a different mode. You know, I don't know that I wouldn't. I wouldn't call it acting, because I'm very sincere when I'm engaging with people at podfest and other conferences and. But at the same time, it is a different. Yeah, it's a different mode, I guess. It's like a switch flips and I'm the red Hat guy, but then I take the red hat off and I'm Larry, and it's something that I've always struggled with and even continue to struggle with today. You know, as of late, our podcasts haven't been as dynamic, because even when the red hat was on, I was still kind of Larry, and Larry's going through some things in life right now that aren't a lot of fun. And so I was just kind of kicking rocks, and you can see that dynamic on the show now.
Larry Roberts [:Today I'm feeling pretty good, so I'm feeling Red Hat guy. Ish. But. But I also have to go make an appearance after this at a luncheon where I'm speaking. So I've. I've got to get that energy going, and I've got to get involved in who. Who the red hat guy really is. And so I can relate to exactly what you're saying, but I struggle with the authenticity aspect of it, too.
Will Greenblatt [:Can I ask you a question? I know I'm not the host, but I'm just super curious about.
Larry Roberts [:Sure. I mean, it's a conversation. Yeah. It goes both ways.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah. So I. Because I relate so much to what you just said about, like, when I'm not feeling good in my private life, and then I have to go be on stage or lead a workshop or do a keynote or something like that, you know? Yeah, but. So. So do you feel like if you were to integrate what's going on in your personal life, like, maybe not necessarily talk about it, maybe talk about it, but just, like, somehow find a way to, like, acknowledge that to the audience that you were going through it, would that feel like you were letting them down to you?
Larry Roberts [:Yeah, I think so. Because, I mean, there's a Persona of success that surrounds the red Hat guy, and if I was to share what's going on, that that's an extreme failure. So. Yeah, I think it would be. It would shatter. It would shatter that. That perception right now.
Sara Lohse [:I'm going to correct that. That is not an extreme failure, but in your brain, it feels like an extreme failure. Just gonna correct.
Larry Roberts [:Maybe. Yeah. Okay. Well, I appreciate you, but. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's tough to reconcile.
Larry Roberts [:And, you know, I think you hit the nail on the head. You mentioned that you went to therapy, and I. I think I'm gonna have to take that same route to. To get back to where we need to be.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah. And I mean, they're obviously, you know, I think we're way past this in our culture, luckily, but there's no shame in it. And it's. It's one of the best things you can do, even as a business person, even if you. Even if you don't care about healing for your family and your friends. It's like as a business person, you know, being not so hard on yourself, you know, getting perspective, learning to, like, be okay with your flaws and your. And. But.
Will Greenblatt [:But work on the, you know, all the stuff that you are.
Larry Roberts [:That.
Will Greenblatt [:That one is able to do if you have a good therapist and you have the open mind. You know, it's amazing as an entrepreneur and as a business owner to. To have that kind of space to go every week or every two weeks or whatever. I go every month now, but I wish I could do more. It's just expensive.
Larry Roberts [:Yeah, Yeah, I. I hear what you're saying there, so. But yeah, it's. It's. It's interesting to. That. That there's parallels that we share here in, In. In that.
Larry Roberts [:That realization and not to flip the.
Will Greenblatt [:Switch on you and treat this like a therapy session. I just love this stuff. I'm super interested in. In all these kind of things, especially this idea of Personas and masks or all these things that we wear. So that's why I asked the question. I appreciate you answering. And.
Larry Roberts [:Yeah, and I think it's important to have that conversation because so many people and I, I did it until I found the Red Hat. They come up with these brands or these Personas, and they strictly are masks. And, you know, I realized along the pathway that those were masks because why they didn't work. You know, every. I probably had a dozen brands before becoming the Red Hat guy, and none of those worked because they were. They were forced. You know, they were something. You know, I went out to the Creative Market on creativemarket.com I found a logo and I'm like, oh, that's my brand.
Larry Roberts [:And that's not your brand because you have no, you have no relation to that inanimate logo that you found on some, you know, decent website.
Will Greenblatt [:But yeah, it's got to come from inside. It has to. For me, it's all about your story. So when you were asking about the acting thing. Story is everything. It's everything. It's how we process the world. So you can't.
Will Greenblatt [:The next book I'm working on, I think I'm going to call it Story first because it's this mindset of like, how you approach relationships, how you approach public speaking, how you approach business, how you approach content creation. Everything has to start with understanding what story you're telling and what stories other people have in their heads. And so until you, until you really acknowledge the raw undercurrent of story that's happening throughout the world, you're not going to be able to reach people and connect with them properly. So when it comes to a brand is like, I knew that if I tried to build a brand on something that wasn't true from my story, of course it's not going to work. And so I had to say, well, what is my story? I was an actor and then the big part of my story that I only started feeling comfortable sharing a couple years ago was that when I was a teenager, my brother passed away and I did not want to share that because it felt cheap or exploitative for a while. Like, I was like, I don't want to share this to get like pity points or sympathy points for money, you know, because I'm out here. I mean, I'm on social media to build a business. I'm not, I'm not just sharing my thoughts.
Will Greenblatt [:I'm like, I'm, I'm out here intentionally because I need to find customers to sell my to. Like, this is a very business oriented operation. So if I'm sharing that story or if I'm sharing it in my workshops where I'm getting paid to be there, is that, is that shitty in some way? So I really struggled with that. And then one day, we're so similar.
Larry Roberts [:I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I did the exact same thing because in, in 2013, I wanted to rehab, rehab for alcohol. And I did not want to share that story because, I mean, who hasn't heard the rehab story? It's the same story just with a different, different presenter. And I did the exact same thing, you know, and I. You hit me when you said pity points. Because I used to use the term pity porn because I looked at it as sharing that story and it's just me just, just loving the pity porn. Because I used to love sitting there listening to Pink Floyd and wallowing in self pity and I considered that pity porn and, but, well, I haven't listened to all this. Well, maybe once, maybe when it first started happening, I think I listened to Pink Floyd one night, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not listening to Pink Floyd today.
Larry Roberts [:But, but I was, I was working on getting a TED talk and, or a TEDx talk and I was working with a company that I paid a significant sum to to help me land this talk. And I was talking, I was, we, the first session was a two day session and we write the outline of our talk and it was all about getting out of the shadow of pity porn. I'm not saying I was framing it right. That's why I hired a company to help me. So it might not have been the best premise, but I could tell that I wasn't getting a lot of attention the first day. Then the second day it was even worse. And then finally, about halfway through the second day, one of the instructor goes, what did you say? I said pity porn. She goes, oh my God, this whole time I thought you were saying kitty porn.
Larry Roberts [:So I'm like, oh, did you not read the outline? Did you not, did you really not read it? Because it's there the whole time. But yeah, they thought I was a pedophile and they weren't giving me a lot.
Will Greenblatt [:The fact, the fact that they were just quiet and not reporting you to the authorities, I think speaks more to their character.
Larry Roberts [:Probably.
Will Greenblatt [:Yes.
Sara Lohse [:I never even thought of that because I've heard the story so many times. I didn't even think of like you could have been on an FBI list so fast.
Will Greenblatt [:That is wild. And they just weren't saying anything.
Larry Roberts [:They just weren't saying anything. Yeah. And she goes, oh my God, this whole time I thought you were saying kitty porn. And I'm like, oh. And so I stopped using that term. But I, I, that just goes back to what I was saying. Yeah, he's a real good move is that I relate to what you're saying there and not wanting to tell that story because that was the exact same way. And I mean I still am to.
Sara Lohse [:A certain degree now with what you're saying though, with like not wanting to talk about it and it feeling exploitative, like kind of in the same way, I feel like there are a lot of people who do tell those personal stories. Exactly. In that way that they are, like. It does feel like they are trying to capitalize on some traumatic story, and a lot of times it has to do with somebody else, and it does feel exploitative.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah.
Sara Lohse [:Can you kind of talk about how you found that balance and how you found the way to share it in a way that was genuine and wasn't, like, giving you that, like, dirty feeling?
Will Greenblatt [:To me, it was a question of impetus. Like, why am I doing this? And I had to wait until the impetus was right. And the impetus was, I am lying by omission by not including this in my story. So my story used to be I was a child actor. I grew up in doing movies and TV shows, and I thought I was gonna be an actor. And then I went to theater school, and I didn't like it. So I quit acting. But the reason I didn't like it was because two years before going, my brother had died, And I was in deep, deep grief and unprocessed, Completely unprocessed.
Will Greenblatt [:Just being numbed by drinking too much and smoking too much weed and then starting to do cocaine and mdma, and I was not in a good place. Had that not happened to me, I may have had a very different experience there. I might be an actor to this day. And so I was on a webinar during COVID and I was telling my story, which I'd done a million times, and I would always tell it the same way. I was an actor. I grew up acting, thought I was going to be an actor. Went to theater school, hated it. I used to show this little crying face emoji on my.
Will Greenblatt [:On my slide deck. I'd show a picture of my face from theater school. And then I would say, and I hated it. And then I'd click. And then a crying face emoji would cover my face. And people go, you know, it was this, like, cute little thing, but it's not the real story. And the other thing is, the more I started getting into the power of story and how important it is sharing these stories, I realized, like, you don't tell your story. It's not for you.
Will Greenblatt [:It's for other people. And so when I said that story, I was like, I'm sick of not telling the real story, so I'm just going to tell it. And something happened in the. That webinar after I said that piece. And then afterwards, somebody messaged me and went, you know, my father passed away, and it's really hard, and I don't know, you know, and people in like, everybody was affected by it in a good way, even though it was a hard emotion and everybody felt something important, and there was a new level of openness and empathy in the room. And I went, okay, I'm not going to do this just for that. I'm not going to do it manipulatively. But I.
Will Greenblatt [:But I now know that this is the power of this story, because other people have lost people, too, or other people had traumatic events in their younger lives. Everybody has a connection to that place of shame and pain. And that's, in fact, what connects us as humans, I think, is like, whatever we believe or wherever we live or whatever we do, we are all connected by loss and grief and shame and pain and all these sorts of things. And when you just open the window a little bit, people just really, really stop what they're doing and pay attention and feel something and connect. And if you do it just for that reason alone and just leave the business stuff as secondary, it's worth it. And then you will find, as a byproduct that good things happen and relationships are built and you can do business with people. But the impetus has to stay in the. I want to share this.
Will Greenblatt [:So other people feel seen, other people feel not alone. Other people feel some connection, and that has to be the impetus.
Sara Lohse [:I love that. And we talked. We mentioned PodFest already. But this past PodFest, January 2025, we were in a workshop, and I was talking about being a great podcast guest and the importance of telling stories on podcasts and all of that. And someone asked me, well, I feel like. I don't like feeling vulnerable. I don't like putting myself in that position to like and tell those personal stories. So I only tell the professional stories.
Sara Lohse [:I don't touch any of the personal stories. How do I get past that? And that's basically exactly what I said. It's like, well, stop making it about you.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah.
Sara Lohse [:And I say that in, like, the kindest way I can, but it sounds mean. But it's not about your exact same way.
Larry Roberts [:You said. That's exactly how you said it.
Sara Lohse [:It is, but then I did. But then I said after that that I'm trying to say this nicely. It just sounds. I sound like a jerk. But it's not about how you feel telling the story. It's about how someone else feels hearing it. And if you can make somebody feel seen and feel heard and feel, like, related to because you shared your story, it's not about you anymore.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah. And you learn you only learn that by doing it. You only learn that by going and doing and saying the scary thing or writing the scary thing and hitting publishing. You know, you only can experience that and learn it actually in your body that it was scary, but then you did it. And that you get one or two comments or pieces of feedback or a dm, Like, I got a dm, you know, DM once that was so beautiful to. To receive. And I was like, okay, this is why I'm doing this. Like, really? This is why I'm doing this.
Will Greenblatt [:I want to make a living, support my family. I want to make more money all the time. There's never enough money, but this is why I'm doing this. It's to connect with people, to share stories, to open up the world, to, you know, to. To help people feel more comfortable being vulnerable. Because I believe in the ripple effects of that. It's all I know how to do. So this is the contribution I can make to the world.
Will Greenblatt [:And so that's got to be the main focus. And then the money stuff, you've got to learn how to make money. You've got to learn how to run a business, but it's. It's not the reason to share your story to make money, because then that's when people feel gross about it. It. When you read that thing, that's like, I used to be this, and then I did this. Then I met a mentor who showed me that everything is about sales. And I started making.
Will Greenblatt [:And now I went from this to Mr. Fucking, you know, Million Dollar Man. And you just read this, you go, this isn't real. This is not vulnerable. This is you. This is pity porn or pity performance or. It's. It's, you know, it's not real.
Will Greenblatt [:And so I think most of us have a good detector for that. And so I would say, don't worry if people think that. As long as you can get in touch with the impetus for yourself and Larry for your thing about the Everybody has a rehab story. The thing I always try to think about is what is something that only I can say? And I think about this with everything. Not just stories, but also any content I make. Anytime I'm on stage, I always try to say something that only I can say or at least have moments of that. So the question is, what is it about your rehab story that you've never heard anyone else say? That's something maybe weird and unique about it for you. That's a particular thought you had one day on a Tuesday while you were there.
Will Greenblatt [:You know, like. Like a specific story or moment or feeling that you've never heard anyone say before.
Sara Lohse [:Is it weird that I have the answer to this? I don't know if it's the answer he's thinking, but I have. I have my answer for him.
Larry Roberts [:What is it?
Sara Lohse [:I remember you telling me about how in. When you were at your, like, lowest, you couldn't drive over bridges. You had such anxiety driving over bridges. And in my head, because I turned everything into metaphors and stories and all of that, that felt so huge because bridges are so metaphorical. It's like going from one place to, like, another place and how we connect different, like, places and times in our lives. And getting past that was like, what allowed you to, like, kind of move forward in your life and in your journey. So in my brain, the what. What will saying is your bridge moment.
Larry Roberts [:And I dig the bridge moment. And that's a very real. And I like the metaphor there because it eventually digressed to where I couldn't drive at all. I could drive in neighborhoods, but I could not get on a highway. I mean, literally, I would. I would have a panic attack and I would have to pull. I couldn't do it. And so that was definitely a downward spiral.
Larry Roberts [:But I'm going to throw a little humor here because exactly the moment that I was thinking of, I was thinking while I was in rehab, I was. I was also such a monster addict, which I still am, that I actually got a nurse fired because she was smuggling monsters in for me.
Will Greenblatt [:Oh, well, see, that's beautiful too, because it's. It's real, it's unique, it's funny, it's like, a bit embarrassing, but, like, you know, still relatable. Are you a fan of John Mulaney, the comedian?
Sara Lohse [:I was thinking the same thing.
Will Greenblatt [:His post rehab stuff is amazing. Like, Baby J worries. It's incredible. Yeah, I just like tears in my eyes, laughing. When he was reading his. His article with gq, did you. Have you heard that bit?
Sara Lohse [:Yes.
Will Greenblatt [:He was on coke and he. And he had an interview with GQ magazine that he doesn't remember. And then he just reads the entire thing out to the audience and it's.
Sara Lohse [:He's just eating cereal.
Will Greenblatt [:Hilarious. And he just. He's ran about haunted houses and he's like. And it's just so funny. And as a former cocaine user myself, I related to the, like, rambling nonsense and the idea that I would do that on a national magazine, you know, and so anyways, like, I think the humor is lovely and I Think also the bridge thing is really beautiful. And I want to make a point too. And this is. Comes from my training as an artist, like a theater artist and writer and actor.
Will Greenblatt [:You don't necessarily have to make the metaphor for people. Sara interpreted the metaphor from hearing your bridge story. So let's say you were to make a post about it on LinkedIn or share about it on another podcast as a guest. You don't have to necessarily say the bridge represents crossing. That's Sara's interpretation that she loved and ran with. And that's beautiful. And I, I see it too. But you don't necessarily have to fill that in for people.
Will Greenblatt [:You can leave that up to the, to the listener and the audience's imagination. You can just say, I was draw. I couldn't even drive down highways. I would get a panic attack and pull over. And then we can fill in all those stories and metaphors for ourselves. You just, you just say what happened to what it was like, you know what I mean? Well, falter when they feel like they have to make the metaphor and they have to come up with a moral and they have to say, so the moral of the story is when I was like, drunk in my kid's soccer game is sports are important. You know, it's like. And so.
Will Greenblatt [:But a great metaphor is great. Spelling it out can be nice, but there's power in your story that doesn't necessarily have a pretty bow tied on it, just the messy. I love it.
Larry Roberts [:Yeah, I love that we're getting close to where we're. We're going to wrap this up, but before we do that, I would. I noticed that you have a newsletter, you have a school community, and that's S K O O L Alex Hormosi's platform there. Do you find those to be extremely helpful in building your brand, establishing a community, having communication on a regular basis with your community that you've established? Talk to us just a little bit about building community and how you stay in touch and you engage with that community on a regular basis.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, that's really important for me. And it's not necessarily the most lucrative part of my work yet. I mean, it might be one day, but for me, I look at it as a, you know, you were talking about sharing the different modes of yourself. I kind of look at that self as my, like, most open mode. So in my newsletter and then in my community where we meet twice a week and work together the same, like, you know, I think there's seven paying members right now only, you know, for you know, usually sometimes two will show up on a given day. But, but everybody's kind of like, you know, that's where we really get down to some shit and talk about like these things we're talking about here. But that's where I can share more personal stuff and more intimate stuff. And I look at the newsletter kind of the same way.
Will Greenblatt [:I maybe would get a bit deeper than I would on LinkedIn and then again in the community even deeper. And so I look at that as like a safe space almost for myself to share what I really think and what's important to me and to build in public in a way that I can do a bit more freely. And then you get the user feedback, you get your customers going, hey, I really like this. This was really beautiful. This was powerful. Or nobody reads it and you're like, oh, okay, I guess nobody gives a shit about that. And then you get that like iterative feedback of what do I share? And of course I do a lot of like, frameworks too, or I try to share like practical steps, things you can do to make your speaking business better, things you can do to be better on stage, ways to tell your story, better ways to be More effective on LinkedIn? So I share those practical things and then I just see what resonates and I get that constant feedback. So even though it's not making me newsletters making me no money, the community is not making me like nearly as much as speaking or one on one coaching.
Will Greenblatt [:But it's the testing ground and it's the, the connection that you, that you can really find out what people need, what they're struggling with, what they want, what they respond to. So I find that's super powerful for building the brand.
Sara Lohse [:I love what you said too, with like some, some things people just like don't see or don't respond to at all. And I feel like that's a fear and like that's a hang up a lot of people have about sharing stories and stuff. It's like, well, what if I post this and just like nobody sees it.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah.
Sara Lohse [:And like that's, that's like scary and embarrassing for some reason. It's like, yeah, well if no one saw it, then why are you embarrassed?
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah.
Sara Lohse [:Who were you embarrassed in front of? There was no one there.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, nobody saw it exactly.
Sara Lohse [:But the fact that no one saw it is embarrassing for some reason.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah, totally. And I think that's what every artist or every person who puts themselves out always fears is like, what if I bear my soul and nobody Gives a shit. It's almost worse than getting laughed at in a way. It's like, you know, I worked on this and I promised on and nobody cared. But you only get over that by doing it and by realizing, ah, it doesn't matter. And then. And the more reps you put in, the less important it becomes because it becomes such a smaller percentage of your output. So you're just like, you know, I've now made a thousand five hundred LinkedIn posts, whatever it is.
Will Greenblatt [:Like, I've been posting every day for like almost two years now. So, you know, I'm, I'm over a thousand posts. I think by now if I post something and nobody cares, I just go, oh, that's interesting. Why? You know, I wonder why? And I can just sort of look at it a bit more clinically, but if it was my first among my first 20 posts, I'd be mortified. And I was mortified back then, but I knew this is a long process to build this personal brand and it's gonna be so important for my career later. And I think we all kind of understand that these days, or most of us is like, and that's what you guys are doing, that's what we're all kind of doing here, is saying we need to be visible, we need to be respected, we need to be trusted, we need to be liked if people are gonna give us work opportunities and the ones that we want and if we're gonna continue to grow. And so, like, that's important enough to get through the sticky, embarrassing stuff at the beginning and just get the reps in.
Larry Roberts [:Well, this has been such a powerful episode, honestly, it's one of my. And I don't mean to disrespect any of our previous guests, but this was a really fun and engaging episode. I think so. And I love the fact that you and Sara connected on LinkedIn because that reinforces some of our prior episodes that we've done recently talking about the power of LinkedIn and how the evolution of LinkedIn has really changed. And I think it's just amazing. So is that the best place for people to reach out and Contact you?
Will Greenblatt [:Absolutely. LinkedIn is where I'm. It's the, the only platform I'm active. I was given a piece of advice last year, which is one platform, one icp, one offer, one year. I loved that. And I was like, I'm sick of half assing Instagram and YouTube and not getting any result, TikTok not getting any results. So I was like, fuck those things for A while I'm just not going to even touch them. And I'm just focusing on LinkedIn and it's paid huge dividends.
Will Greenblatt [:I've doubled my followers since I started a couple years ago. And now it's like, it's, it's. I'm seeing the compounding effects. So Will Greenblatt at LinkedIn is the place to go. Also, my newsletter is the Green Blast, which is a play off my name, Greenblatt. So that's where I, yeah, post weekly. I, it's. It's a bit unhinged and that's the way I am and so it's the way I like it.
Will Greenblatt [:And then, yeah, my community is called speakingheroes and it's where we basically work on making solopreneurs coaches, consultants, helping them like, add professional speaker to their resume and to their income stream and so getting all their assets in order. So, yeah, speakingheroes on school sk o o l is another place to go if you want to check that out.
Sara Lohse [:I personally am thankful that you are active on LinkedIn because I, when I did slide into your DMs to completely just fan girl, I stared at that message for so long. Like, what if he gets mad about it? What if he's like, offended? Like, I was like, just staring at it. Just so anxious about, like, how you would respond to that because I literally said, like, super interested in what you're doing right now. But I have burning questions about life with Derek circa 2006.
Will Greenblatt [:Yeah.
Sara Lohse [:And I was waiting for you to be like, well, that, like, that is in the past. Like, why are you bringing that up or something, like, being all mad about it. So you responded very quickly.
Will Greenblatt [:Right. Like, be a human being. And I think the right people respond to that. And so, yeah, I loved it. And I was, I'm glad that we got to do this.
Larry Roberts [:Super cool. I'm glad you guys got to connect as well. It's always fun to see Sara with that smile, just going ear to ear. So it's been amazing. So, Will, thank you so very much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Will Greenblatt [:Thanks, Larry.
Larry Roberts [:Everybody. If you found some value, and I don't know how you wouldn't have found some value. There was so much. Again, just in depth insight into Will's history and storytelling and framing your brand. Man, it was just a super, super powerful episode. So if you did find some value, do us a favor, hit that subscribe button so we can continue to bring you these amazing episodes each and every week. And with that, I'm Larry Roberts.
Sara Lohse [:I'm Sara Lohse, and we'll talk to you next week.
Larry Roberts [:Did you hear the way her voice crackled?
Sara Lohse [:I did not have a voice. I don't have a voice. Right there.
Larry Roberts [:I. I don't want to say bye.
Sara Lohse [:And I'm Sara Lohse, and we will talk to you next week.
