Missional living is messy. At times you’ll wonder why things aren’t easier, or why they’re not moving faster. Sometimes you will wonder if it really matters and if all of this is actually making a difference in people’s lives. In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, Caesar talks with author and missional practitioner Twyla Franz about when missional living feels hard... and you start to blame yourself, others, or God. This is a great conversation and will encourage you to begin again and keep going! In This Episode You’ll Learn:

• Reasons that missional living can seem really hard.
• The 3 people we start to blame when things don't go as planned.
• The way humility can lead us to freedom.
• How God feels about you and your progress so far.

Get started here… From this episode: "Blaming doesn’t help anyone. Instead of blaming ourselves, we can say the needed apologies and invite God to help us love better. Instead of blaming others, we can choose to notice, listen, and love with compassion and genuine interest. Instead of blaming God, we can trust that He is growing good things even when it doesn’t look how we thought it would."

Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.

Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…

Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.   Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Free Download of the Big 3 For Episode #382 Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Twyla's Blog: The Uncommon Normal Jennifer Dukes Lee: Growing Slow Missio Publishing Get Caesar’s latest book: Bigger Gospel for FREE… Click Here

Twyla: 00:00:00

When we have these expectations and they might be sky high.

Twyla: 00:00:03

And then we feel like, well, those expectations are not met.

Twyla: 00:00:08

We feel like we need to do something with it.

Twyla: 00:00:09

And that's where I think we turn to blame is there just has to be a reason that we pin our disappointment on.

Twyla: 00:00:16

And so first we can blame ourselves and different people may relate to different.

Twyla: 00:00:22

One of these more.

Twyla: 00:00:23

Um, especially for anyone that is tends to be hyper self-critical, this can be really huge where you're looking at.

Twyla: 00:00:30

Well, these are the ways that I failed.

Twyla: 00:00:33

I'm too boring, or I'm not a good planner or a good organizer or good party planner, or like we just look at all the things of, I would have, could have, should have done.

Twyla: 00:00:43

Things differently.

Twyla: 00:00:44

And so instead of seeing ourselves as God's children and walking in that identity and letting what we do overflow out of that, we start calling ourselves names like failure and disappointment and mistake.

Announcer: 00:01:08

Welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.

Announcer: 00:01:16

In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle, this is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.

Announcer: 00:01:24

And now here's your host Caesar.

Announcer: 00:01:26

Kalinowski

Caesar: 00:01:27

okay.

Caesar: 00:01:28

How's it going today?

Caesar: 00:01:30

How was your Easter celebration?

Caesar: 00:01:32

Did you have a massive.

Caesar: 00:01:35

Good time of worship and family and food.

Caesar: 00:01:38

I was kind of raised in the church growing up, even though our family was not necessarily highly.

Caesar: 00:01:45

Living this lifestyle out, but we never missed a Sunday morning, at least with my mom and my sisters.

Caesar: 00:01:51

My dad was what we refer to as a Chr-Easter . He only pretty much went to church services on either Christmas or Easter, but in our homes still Easter was always a really big deal.

Caesar: 00:02:02

And a big meal and yeah, a great time.

Caesar: 00:02:05

Well, same thing nowadays.

Caesar: 00:02:07

And so team K definitely does up Easter.

Caesar: 00:02:09

Well, and of course there's also unrelated to the cross and resurrection.

Caesar: 00:02:14

There's still a lot of fun with the grandkids and chasing around the yard for Easter egg hunt and all that.

Caesar: 00:02:20

So really fun.

Caesar: 00:02:21

I hope yours was great.

Caesar: 00:02:22

I really do.

Caesar: 00:02:23

It's a fun time of year and so important to our hearts, but I know for us, it's also a resetting of a lot of our family values and why.

Caesar: 00:02:32

The things we value are so important to us.

Caesar: 00:02:34

So I hope you had a great Easter celebration.

Caesar: 00:02:37

He is Risen.

Caesar: 00:02:39

Hey, I'd like to get to know you better.

Caesar: 00:02:41

And one way we can do that is over in the Everyday Disciple Podcast, Facebook group.

Caesar: 00:02:45

If you've not joined us over there, would you please do that Can I?

Caesar: 00:02:49

Just invite you to go on over to your Facebook page, search up Everyday Disciple dot com or.

Caesar: 00:02:55

Go to your you the URL Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash Facebook.

Caesar: 00:03:00

That'll take you right to the group and you can join.

Caesar: 00:03:02

And if you have joined, but you've not been in there much lately.

Caesar: 00:03:06

I want to invite ya in the water's fine.

Caesar: 00:03:08

Come on in and let us know your thoughts, questions, ideas for new episodes.

Caesar: 00:03:14

Questions about Missional living, any of that kind of stuff.

Caesar: 00:03:16

Comments on the episodes, all that stuff really wants your voice.

Caesar: 00:03:20

We're doing this podcast every week for you.

Caesar: 00:03:22

So please join us in the Facebook group and also please be sure to subscribe on whatever device.

Caesar: 00:03:29

Type or listening place.

Caesar: 00:03:30

You go to, to listen to podcasts and, uh, let me give you a link to, in case you are looking for a new way to do that.

Caesar: 00:03:37

There's so many platforms.

Caesar: 00:03:38

Now, if you go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash listen, that'll take you to a page with a whole bunch of different ways.

Caesar: 00:03:45

You can listen depending on if you're apple or Android, or you want to do it on your computer or any of that.

Caesar: 00:03:50

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Caesar: 00:04:00

Give us a review, lots of stars.

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We would certainly appreciate it.

Caesar: 00:04:05

Thanks now, Missional living, no matter how long you've been doing it or how well you think it's going or whatever, it's going to be messy.

Caesar: 00:04:15

And some days you wonder why it's not easier.

Caesar: 00:04:19

In fact, sometimes you'll wonder if it even matters and you're making a difference.

Caesar: 00:04:22

Well, today I have my friend Twyla Franz on with me.

Caesar: 00:04:25

She's been on the podcast several times before always a favorite mine and yours.

Caesar: 00:04:30

I'm certain.

Caesar: 00:04:31

And we're going to talk about all that.

Caesar: 00:04:34

And I think you're going to really be blessed by it.

Caesar: 00:04:36

Let's listen to the conversation that we recently had discussing when Missional living feels hard.

Caesar: 00:04:43

How's it going?

Caesar: 00:04:44

Twyla

Twyla: 00:04:45

is going well, thank you so much for having me back on it's you're an honor.

Caesar: 00:04:49

Well, you're again, you're the number one guest ever.

Caesar: 00:04:51

We've had you on more times than anybody else.

Caesar: 00:04:53

And there has to be a reason for that.

Caesar: 00:04:55

At least in my perspective, as I follow your blog, The Uncommon Normal.

Caesar: 00:05:00

I read it because you sent me the links and the emails I get, and I'm always feel like I got an email from a friend and I'm reading through this and it's always really good for my heart.

Caesar: 00:05:09

And so I kind of wait until I'm like, okay, I have to have her on to talk about this again.

Caesar: 00:05:13

So he just as a little bit of a catch-up for the really long-term fans of the show that maybe do remember you being on.

Caesar: 00:05:20

Just give us again, a little bit of your context and what you and the family are up to on mission there and just how you've been in, how things have been going in the last, I don't know, six months or so since we last talked to you.

Twyla: 00:05:31

Okay, sure.

Twyla: 00:05:32

Again, my name is Twyla and I actually.

Twyla: 00:05:35

First was introduced to Caesar way back years ago when he was speaking at an everyday mission training and the idea of doing life with the people around us and having this organic discipleship move really resonated.

Twyla: 00:05:49

And at that point, we were living in a very small house on a very busy road, and we kind of thought that we've really couldn't of.

Twyla: 00:05:57

Lean into this with our literal neighbors until we moved fast forward another year or two.

Twyla: 00:06:03

And we had moved in hindsight, I wish we had not waited and that we had actually started building relationships right.

Twyla: 00:06:10

Where we were, but that transition did help us to start on a fresh slate and say, well.

Twyla: 00:06:18

We are going to be a people that spend more time outside in our front yard.

Twyla: 00:06:22

We're going to lean into building these friendships with our neighbors.

Twyla: 00:06:27

And as we were doing that and listening to teachings from Caesar and from Mike Breen.

Twyla: 00:06:31

And so we just got our feet wet and just started leaning into this and we didn't really know what we were doing at all and not.

Caesar: 00:06:41

Right.

Caesar: 00:06:42

Sometimes it's hard.

Caesar: 00:06:42

Cause you just got to get started.

Twyla: 00:06:44

Yeah, we don't, we don't have to have it all figured out before we get started.

Twyla: 00:06:49

As we were growing in learning how to do this ourselves.

Twyla: 00:06:53

I had this idea land in my head and God was just nudging me to start writing about it.

Twyla: 00:06:57

And so that's where the uncommon normal was birthed out of is I don't have this figured out.

Twyla: 00:07:02

I do not have the experience that Caesar has or a lot of other people that have been great disciplers for a really long time, but I can bring other people into the journey along the way as we're learning.

Twyla: 00:07:13

And as we're trying to figure it out, but along the way, just really leaning into.

Twyla: 00:07:18

It's going to be messy.

Twyla: 00:07:20

It's not always going to be easy.

Twyla: 00:07:21

We're not going to have all the answers and.

Twyla: 00:07:24

We don't have to, before we start.

Twyla: 00:07:26

And so that was what I really wanted to do with The Uncommon Normal kind of break down this divide between, well, I have no idea what I'm doing.

Twyla: 00:07:35

This is where I want to go and to make it a gentler, easier transition for people just to start from where they are enjoying us as, as we're learning and messing up and trying to figure things out too.

Twyla: 00:07:46

So we've been through COVID just like everyone else has.

Twyla: 00:07:51

We had some time that we were on zoom and we have been trying to meet back in person.

Twyla: 00:07:57

It's been messy, to be honest, it hasn't gone as well as we had hoped, this is a whole group, we're in a different space.

Twyla: 00:08:05

And I think things feel overwhelming in a different way.

Twyla: 00:08:08

And so just as we were kind of wrestling through what God, what are you doing?

Twyla: 00:08:13

How can we be connecting with people?

Twyla: 00:08:16

How can we keep you moving forward in this?

Twyla: 00:08:18

When it feels right.

Twyla: 00:08:19

You know, we're kind of stuck right now.

Twyla: 00:08:21

And so that, that's kind of where, um, this particular post we're going to dig into came out of, is it just some of our own wrestling's of.

Twyla: 00:08:28

God, I really did think it's supposed to be easier.

Twyla: 00:08:30

Like we should, we should have some of these things figured out now, but the truth is, is that it's, it's messy and there's always going to be more things to learn and keep believing into God.

Twyla: 00:08:40

What, what is next?

Twyla: 00:08:41

And it's not always exactly going to look like the way that we might've thought that it

Caesar: 00:08:45

would no kidding.

Caesar: 00:08:47

And it really is kind of a messy thing.

Caesar: 00:08:48

I think that scares people off a little bit, but if you stop and think for a minute, life's a bit messy.

Caesar: 00:08:55

Easier when we do it with others and we do it in community and God's created us for that.

Caesar: 00:09:00

And I think that's the thing on the other side that people come to is to realize, I don't think I can go back to.

Caesar: 00:09:06

Just me and my family are just isolated or just checking a box, you know, for an hour and a half on a Sunday morning or whatever.

Caesar: 00:09:11

Once you begin to experience life in the kingdom and others start to taste that with you and your kids get to see the difference of that lifestyle.

Caesar: 00:09:17

There's really no going back, but it is really hard.

Caesar: 00:09:20

And so yeah, this post that we're talking about here today, it's called is Missional living supposed to be easier than this?.

Caesar: 00:09:26

And of course that caught my eye and my attention, and I know it would catch a lot of others as well.

Caesar: 00:09:32

And you talk in here, you talk a lot about how you're not alone in this.

Caesar: 00:09:37

Others probably feel this way.

Caesar: 00:09:38

And you've talked to people who do and how we kind of set expectations sometimes that maybe they're not real, like what kind of expectations are changing for you and, and, uh, or needing to do you think, as you've been doing this a little bit long,

Twyla: 00:09:52

I think one thing that we're learning is just to have grace for where people are.

Twyla: 00:09:57

And as much as we want to have a meeting every single week, that is something that.

Twyla: 00:10:05

Is great, but that's not the only part of our entire week.

Twyla: 00:10:09

And so while we might have an expectation that we're going to have a lot of people that come every time that we meet that you're is that sometimes it's more one-on-one or more organic it's happening out throughout the week as we're not just staying inside of our house, but we're interacting with our neighbors.

Twyla: 00:10:27

I think one of the biggest expectations that we had is just that the group that has been meeting weekly is going to keep growing and it's going to be thriving and expanding and multiplying.

Twyla: 00:10:38

And in reality, it's been hard to find a time that that everybody is committing to.

Twyla: 00:10:43

And I think it's just realizing that perhaps we need to explore different days.

Twyla: 00:10:49

Maybe our rhythm that worked when our kids were younger is not the same night of the week, that is still going to work.

Twyla: 00:10:56

And so we're just kind of in the season of, of really needing to ask what do our people need?

Twyla: 00:11:02

How can we best meet them there and have grace for them when they're still struggling?

Twyla: 00:11:08

A lot of the world is still feeling overwhelmed coming out of COVID.

Twyla: 00:11:11

And so sometimes adding on one more thing at the end of your week just feels really overwhelming.

Twyla: 00:11:17

It's just being disappointed with that, to understand that.

Twyla: 00:11:21

So that way we can really hear what the people, you know, hear what our people need instead of.

Twyla: 00:11:27

Telling them what we think that they need.

Caesar: 00:11:29

And I think too, you're hitting on something that's really key here.

Caesar: 00:11:31

I know that you don't see Missional living as a night of the week, and yet that touch point of like the family dinner, the community sort of family dinner night is a real important touch point.

Caesar: 00:11:41

But if we start measuring that as our primary.

Caesar: 00:11:44

Uh, level of success is how many people attend, any single thing we do versus how many conversations we're having with the relational depths going, where are we at with people?

Caesar: 00:11:54

Are we still keeping an eye out as missionaries for new people of peace?

Caesar: 00:11:57

And they're coming into this community, this larger oikos setting, those are all so harder to measure per se.

Caesar: 00:12:06

And so then what we do is we focus on that one.

Caesar: 00:12:08

Thing that's more measurable like, oh, how many people came to this?

Caesar: 00:12:11

And then we get really disappointed and that's pretty common.

Caesar: 00:12:14

And I think we inherit that somewhat because many of us grew up in churches where the, the, one of the big measurement tools is like, what's that Sunday attendance, you know?

Caesar: 00:12:22

And that's still a big deal.

Caesar: 00:12:23

That's still a big deal out there, but there's more to that, but we can end up being disappointed.

Caesar: 00:12:28

And so what really was powerful too, in your, in your post here was that we see.

Caesar: 00:12:33

Cast blame when things aren't going, where we think we, we feel we're feeling misunderstood or we're feeling, maybe we're going backwards here now what's happening.

Caesar: 00:12:42

And there's a real disappointment.

Caesar: 00:12:43

And so we start to lose our momentum and this is kind of a common human thing.

Caesar: 00:12:48

We began to place blame and you've broken it down into like three different places or, yeah, people, I guess that we start to blame.

Caesar: 00:12:56

Let's talk a little about.

Twyla: 00:12:58

Definitely when we have these expectations and they might be sky high.

Twyla: 00:13:02

And then we feel like, well, those expectations are not met.

Twyla: 00:13:06

We feel like we need to do something with it.

Twyla: 00:13:08

And that's where I think we turn to blame is there just has to be a reason.

Twyla: 00:13:13

That we pin our disappointment on.

Twyla: 00:13:14

And so the way that I broke it down is first we can blame ourselves and different people may relate to different.

Twyla: 00:13:22

One of these more, um, especially for anyone that is tends to be hyper self-critical.

Twyla: 00:13:28

This can be really huge where you're looking at well, these are the ways that I failed.

Twyla: 00:13:33

I'm too boring or I'm not a good planner, good organizer or good party planner, or like we just look at all the things of, well, I would've, could've, should've done these things differently and it is just this really debilitating space that we.

Twyla: 00:13:49

Can find ourselves in is when, when we're saying we should have done this, we should have done this.

Twyla: 00:13:54

And something I put in that post is that those should really back us into a corner and people littlest, they call us names.

Twyla: 00:14:00

And so instead of seeing ourselves as God's children and walking in that identity and letting what we do overflow out of that, we start calling ourselves names like failure and disappointment and mistake.

Twyla: 00:14:14

And.

Twyla: 00:14:15

And then we just get even more stuck.

Twyla: 00:14:18

We really can't love the people around as well when we can't even see that we matter.

Twyla: 00:14:22

So we just can't treat other people.

Twyla: 00:14:24

Like they matter if we're devalued in ourselves and that can just be a really, really tricky place to be in if we're staying there and just looking at all the ways that we have failed, instead of giving ourselves a grace in, in moving beyond that and letting God grow.

Twyla: 00:14:39

I said he uses despite our weakness and

Caesar: 00:14:41

the.

Caesar: 00:14:42

Always lead.

Caesar: 00:14:43

Eventually when we start shooting ourselves, then we all, they ultimately also turn outward and we start placing should on other people.

Caesar: 00:14:50

I've said this before on the podcast, but I guess it bears repeating, as we say, there's no, should or shouldn't in the gospel.

Caesar: 00:14:57

There's no, should you should do this or you shouldn't do that or you're supposed to do that.

Caesar: 00:15:02

But instead the gospel says we get to, or we need that.

Caesar: 00:15:07

We either get to, or we need not.

Caesar: 00:15:09

So we're free in that, but when we start shoulding on ourselves, generally, then that doesn't stop there and it starts to turn outward as well.

Caesar: 00:15:18

And we start to move that blame and all those should as well.

Caesar: 00:15:21

Those, those should, those people should have come or they should've gotten a hold of us or they should be taking this once in a while or they should be leading us or fill in the blank.

Caesar: 00:15:29

Or my husband should this or the kids should, boy, it can get endless.

Caesar: 00:15:32

And then, so we turn it from ourselves to start.

Caesar: 00:15:35

Blame others.

Twyla: 00:15:36

Don't we.

Twyla: 00:15:37

Yeah, definitely.

Twyla: 00:15:38

Definitely.

Twyla: 00:15:39

So yes, that's, that was my next point is if, if we're not blaming ourselves or maybe we're doing this in addition to blaming ourselves, is that we're pointing that finger at everybody else.

Twyla: 00:15:48

And we're saying, well, we invited people and they didn't come, or we're trying, and they're not reciprocating, or they're not carrying conversation.

Twyla: 00:15:56

They're not, you know, like we.

Twyla: 00:15:58

Pointing fingers and looking at all the things that they haven't done, that we expected them to do.

Twyla: 00:16:04

And really what it does is it hardens our heart.

Twyla: 00:16:08

These are the people that we want to love that God has called us to love.

Twyla: 00:16:12

And you never pointed fingers at them.

Twyla: 00:16:14

We really cannot be loving them well.

Caesar: 00:16:17

Isn't that weird.

Caesar: 00:16:17

What a, what an icky side of that.

Caesar: 00:16:19

We're like starting these Missional Community.

Caesar: 00:16:20

Cause we love people.

Caesar: 00:16:21

We want to love people better.

Caesar: 00:16:22

We want them to understand God's love and be connected and restored and all that.

Caesar: 00:16:27

But then when things don't meet our expectations, we do, we start to point fingers and then we try to put on a happy face when they get there.

Caesar: 00:16:33

So now we're wearing masks and the whole thing is off-kilter and weird.

Caesar: 00:16:36

And how is that?

Caesar: 00:16:37

Good news?

Caesar: 00:16:38

That's not good.

Caesar: 00:16:40

It's not good news for us.

Caesar: 00:16:41

It's not good news for others.

Caesar: 00:16:43

And so, yeah, so here, let's kind of rehash this a bit.

Caesar: 00:16:46

So we, when things don't go, as we hoped, they seem hard, we start to blame ourselves and then it starts to turn outward and we blame others.

Caesar: 00:16:54

Who else we blame?

Twyla: 00:16:56

I think we can blame God as well and we can ask questions like, well God, you called me to this, why is it not easier than this?

Twyla: 00:17:04

Or, I've been faithful to plant these seeds and I'm not seeing any growth.

Twyla: 00:17:07

And we expected to have fruit, we expected there to be growth in these places and we expected it to happen in the timing that we wanted it to happen and to look the way that we wanted it to.

Twyla: 00:17:17

And so I think sometimes we can ask God questions...

Twyla: 00:17:21

well why aren't you showing up?

Twyla: 00:17:23

Like , where are you?

Twyla: 00:17:24

Why are you leaving me to do this on my own?

Twyla: 00:17:27

Then this is something that I've been learning really deeply from Jennifer Dukes Lee in her book, growing slow is that growth does not always look the way that we expect it to and down under the surface in those a winter seasons, there's so much growth that's happening.

Twyla: 00:17:43

That is vital to the entire cyclical season of the growth and the harvest.

Twyla: 00:17:48

So there's this quote from her.

Twyla: 00:17:50

If you saw your progress, the way that God does, you'd never doubt for a moment that you're making a difference.

Twyla: 00:17:55

And so I think just latching onto that, like we see a different perspective than God does, and when we are showing up and we are being faithful to follow him and to lean into those, those next, I know you ask what's next God.

Twyla: 00:18:10

And when we're, when we're leaning into that, where we are planting the seed.

Twyla: 00:18:14

We have to trust that he is growing good things in his time, and we might not see any growth above the surface for quite a while.

Twyla: 00:18:23

And that's okay.

Twyla: 00:18:23

But he sees it differently than we do

Caesar: 00:18:26

for sure.

Caesar: 00:18:26

And think about like that metaphor of planting seeds and all that, a farmer doesn't put his seeds in the ground and then stand over it and scream at it.

Caesar: 00:18:33

Cause it's not growing fast enough.

Caesar: 00:18:35

You know, he knows there's things happening and there's a trust there.

Caesar: 00:18:38

And, well, what are, there'll be enough?

Caesar: 00:18:39

Sunshine will there'll be enough water.

Caesar: 00:18:42

Yes, and God does it again.

Caesar: 00:18:43

And this is, it's a beautiful metaphor for that.

Caesar: 00:18:46

And we don't always also get to see the fruit or the harvest.

Caesar: 00:18:51

And that's just another reality is we don't always, and because of the way we see discipleship and have articulated umpteen trillion, times of helping people move from unbelief to belief in light of the gospel.

Caesar: 00:19:03

And there is what's true of God and what he's, what's been accomplished through Christ and the cross.

Caesar: 00:19:07

And now what's true.

Caesar: 00:19:09

God says it's true of us.

Caesar: 00:19:10

So that's how we get to it.

Caesar: 00:19:11

If we're helping people do that, we don't, we don't know, ultimately all the, the seed that was planted or even the little harvest along the way.

Caesar: 00:19:18

Sometimes we don't get to see all that, but what a great quote there, and it is

Twyla: 00:19:23

a fantastic read.

Twyla: 00:19:24

If anyone has yet to read it, I highly recommend that Growing Slow by Jennifer Dukes Lee

Twyla: 00:19:30

. Caesar: Okay.

Twyla: 00:19:31

Cool.

Twyla: 00:19:31

Okay.

Twyla: 00:19:32

Beautifully written in and just so impactful in letting yourself slow down and not measure your growth by the results and by the numbers, like what we were talking about earlier, it's just easier to, to look at some of these external factors and say, well, these are the markers of.

Twyla: 00:19:48

Growth and she calls it accidents or lessons from an accidental farm girl on unhurried your heart.

Twyla: 00:19:55

And it's just this invitation to rest.

Twyla: 00:19:58

And to trust God and to lean into the differences of all of these seasons and understand that they all have their place and we can't just stay in the spring seasons or the summer season.

Caesar: 00:20:08

I think I'm going to need to get into the, I'll put a link to that book in the show notes for everybody.

Caesar: 00:20:13

But you know, what's echoing in my head as you're just even sharing some of what you got from the book is thinking, Jesus says, the kingdom of God is within you and the Pharisees are pushing them.

Caesar: 00:20:21

And they're saying, well, where's this kingdom at?

Caesar: 00:20:23

And he says, it's not like that.

Caesar: 00:20:25

It's not where you're going to say, well, there it is.

Caesar: 00:20:26

Or here it is because the kingdom of God is within you.

Caesar: 00:20:31

If we believe what Jesus said, and then it's so much more where he's trying to help people understand this is all hard stuff.

Caesar: 00:20:36

Well, sometimes it's hard for us to know what is going on in the depths of someone else's heart.

Caesar: 00:20:40

And are they moving towards trusting God in this area now of their life?

Caesar: 00:20:44

Or maybe in parenting or.

Caesar: 00:20:46

Understanding of what marriage is actually all about or their identity or their own self-worth and all that stuff is so valuable and so gold.

Caesar: 00:20:54

But yeah, sometimes it doesn't add up like by the ounce or the pound or numerically or because the kingdom of God is within us.

Caesar: 00:21:01

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:21:02

Wow.

Caesar: 00:21:02

So how do you begin to embrace.

Caesar: 00:21:05

What is happening, even if you can't see it all, but do you have a sense of it?

Caesar: 00:21:09

And you know, you've been trying to be faithful.

Caesar: 00:21:11

How do you begin to embrace what is when you're kind of getting tired and feeling like this is hard.

Caesar: 00:21:17

What I

Twyla: 00:21:17

keep coming back to is Missional.

Twyla: 00:21:20

Living is going to be good and it's going to be messy.

Twyla: 00:21:23

It's this both.

Twyla: 00:21:24

And, and they're inseparable if you think, perhaps not you, but probably any lady that goes to target.

Twyla: 00:21:30

If you were to map out exactly the path that she walks, it's going to be messy and it's going to go all over the place.

Twyla: 00:21:36

I think Missional living can look a lot like that, like this zigzagging path all over the place.

Twyla: 00:21:41

And it doesn't mean that we're not making progress, that we're not growing, but believing into is going to be good.

Twyla: 00:21:49

It's going to be a messy God's with us in both.

Twyla: 00:21:52

And we don't have to expect that it's only going to.

Twyla: 00:21:56

Look, clean cut and like this explosive growth or even obvious growth.

Twyla: 00:22:03

There's another quote that is just really stuck with me from another book that I've read recently is find your people by Jenny Allen.

Twyla: 00:22:09

And she says, people disappoint us.

Twyla: 00:22:11

You disappoint people, but God never disappoints us.

Twyla: 00:22:15

And so just understanding that.

Twyla: 00:22:17

There is going to be messiness in any relationship that we have with other people.

Twyla: 00:22:22

And we can embrace that rather than fighting against it.

Twyla: 00:22:25

And it's not a

Caesar: 00:22:26

straight road.

Caesar: 00:22:27

It's not a straight line up into the right.

Caesar: 00:22:29

Right.

Twyla: 00:22:30

We don't have to be defined by the results.

Twyla: 00:22:34

We don't have to be defined by any of these external things.

Twyla: 00:22:38

What he says about us, isn't going to change no matter what.

Twyla: 00:22:42

The growth might look like, you know, to the world's eye or, or to anybody else.

Twyla: 00:22:46

And so I think that that really empowers us just to keep trusting him and leaning into what is that next right thing.

Twyla: 00:22:55

And how can I love the people that are literally right in front of me and just loving them instead of trying to make.

Twyla: 00:23:02

Work perfectly.

Twyla: 00:23:03

And to beat yourself up over the ways that you've messed up.

Twyla: 00:23:06

Like we can, we can walk in humility.

Twyla: 00:23:09

We can say those needed apologies when we need to, we can.

Twyla: 00:23:14

And just have grace for ourselves, grace, for other people, and just keep going.

Twyla: 00:23:18

Humility also lets us listen to other people.

Twyla: 00:23:22

So instead of this pointing fingers and blaming and saying, Hey, you're not showing up or you're not doing whatever I expected just to listen to what needs do they have?

Twyla: 00:23:31

Like, what are, what are we missing by, you know, just kind of blazing forward into what we think.

Twyla: 00:23:39

Yeah, it has to look like in.

Twyla: 00:23:40

Maybe we need to take some time to listen or spend time in somebody else's home and see what's actually going on with their family, you know, or sit at their counter while they're there cooking dinner.

Twyla: 00:23:50

Just figure out what is their story?

Twyla: 00:23:52

Where are they in life right now?

Twyla: 00:23:54

And seems

Caesar: 00:23:56

too simple, but that's not "doing" enough.

Caesar: 00:23:59

That's right.

Caesar: 00:24:00

You're right.

Caesar: 00:24:01

And yet that might be the exact best needed thing for them and for our own hearts to kind of get back out of this.

Caesar: 00:24:06

And that is, you mentioned humility there that takes humility.

Caesar: 00:24:10

That takes humility instead of running a program or trying to get people in line with whatever it is, where you think is next for us or the community, or whatever, to sit and listen to understand needs, and then seek to meet those.

Caesar: 00:24:21

Oh, I love this.

Caesar: 00:24:23

I love this.

Caesar: 00:24:24

And we always get to start again.

Caesar: 00:24:25

Don't we.

Caesar: 00:24:27

I think you, I think I hear so often from people like, well, we tried that whole Missional thing and I've even done, I think, an episode on this, like maybe you never really tried Missional.

Caesar: 00:24:36

Maybe you tried a program that you tried to talk everybody into that you've never done and they've never seen.

Caesar: 00:24:41

And they were like, nah, I'm not getting it, but we always get to start again.

Caesar: 00:24:45

It's it?

Caesar: 00:24:45

Mercy is new every morning.

Caesar: 00:24:47

I was just watching earlier today, Twyla a documentary on Harry Chapman and his sort of life motto.

Caesar: 00:24:53

And this guy was really.

Caesar: 00:24:55

People and trying to solve world hunger.

Caesar: 00:24:57

And he was really a pretty amazing artist.

Caesar: 00:24:59

And that sense of is literally the focus of his life.

Caesar: 00:25:02

Wasn't so much about becoming a big pop star, but his sort of motto in life or banner or whatever that he flew was like, if you're not sure if you're in doubt about what to do, do something.

Caesar: 00:25:12

And as simple as that sounds, that is, I think it's really good advice now.

Caesar: 00:25:17

Not do to be, you know, the people get hung up on that.

Caesar: 00:25:19

Like you say, it's not do to be, but I got to do something.

Caesar: 00:25:22

No, it's we, yeah.

Caesar: 00:25:24

Do something.

Caesar: 00:25:25

But not to earn God's love or not to make yourself valuable.

Caesar: 00:25:29

That's the difference do to b.

Caesar: 00:25:31

That's like what you do equals who you are and your value, but we still, we get to do something.

Caesar: 00:25:35

So if you feel stuck or whatever, we get to start again, we're not pouring.

Caesar: 00:25:38

Cement is what I always tell people in our community.

Caesar: 00:25:40

Hey, so you try getting, you know, family dinner night going or an open table on Thursdays and it worked for awhile and then it kind of fizzled.

Caesar: 00:25:48

You didn't pour cement.

Caesar: 00:25:49

That's not the only, we all eat all week.

Caesar: 00:25:50

Let's like, what about a brunch or something, or maybe a Friday night cookout or something, you know, every week or yeah.

Caesar: 00:25:56

You get to try again.

Caesar: 00:25:57

And there's beauty in that too.

Caesar: 00:25:58

And I think there's freedom and well, let's try something.

Twyla: 00:26:01

Definitely.

Twyla: 00:26:02

And that reminds me of a quote that I have carried with me way since I was a teenager going on mission trips.

Twyla: 00:26:09

And I don't, I do not remember where this quote came from or even the exact words, but the basic idea was that it is easier for God to steer.

Twyla: 00:26:18

Uh, ship that is out on the water moving versus being anchored at the shore.

Twyla: 00:26:23

And the thought behind that is that we can sit back and say, God, what do I do?

Twyla: 00:26:27

What do I do?

Twyla: 00:26:28

And until we get like this blaring, idea from heaven that says exactly in these specific details of what to do that we're not going to move and we're not going to do anything.

Twyla: 00:26:37

But what you're saying, like we can start again.

Twyla: 00:26:39

We can.

Twyla: 00:26:41

Keep trying new things in the humility that we were talking about.

Twyla: 00:26:44

If we remain soft and open and say, God, if I am not going in the right way, reposition me, realign me.

Twyla: 00:26:53

And so we can keep pursuing the things that he's already told us in scripture, like plugging people and praying for people and serving people.

Twyla: 00:27:00

Like those are not things that we have to say, God is this year.

Twyla: 00:27:03

We'll like, he's already told us that it is.

Twyla: 00:27:05

And so I think if we're leaning into those things, Again, not doing, because it earns us anything, but because we know that we're loved because we know who we are in Christ.

Twyla: 00:27:14

And so this is just the way that we treat other people, because we know that this is a gift that's been given to us as well.

Twyla: 00:27:23

Yeah.

Twyla: 00:27:23

So God will give that grace for us to keep trying to get in.

Twyla: 00:27:26

Some things will flop.

Twyla: 00:27:27

And honestly, I think we need somethings that we try to fail in order to keep us humble.

Twyla: 00:27:33

And to know that it's not about us.

Twyla: 00:27:35

And it's not about our, our efforts and that God can absolutely use us in spite of our weakness.

Twyla: 00:27:40

He can use us because we're weak and because we need to lean on him.

Twyla: 00:27:44

And if we think we have it all figured out, then, then we become not teachable and not steerable.

Twyla: 00:27:49

No kidding.

Caesar: 00:27:50

Wow.

Caesar: 00:27:51

And you say in your post, you said, what if we released our expectations?

Caesar: 00:27:56

And what if we let him hold them instead and just leaned into loving whoever's right in front of us in our normal everyday life.

Caesar: 00:28:04

That's not a bad starting or restarting place.

Caesar: 00:28:06

I love that.

Caesar: 00:28:07

In fact, I should say it this way.

Caesar: 00:28:08

That's a great starting place already starting place.

Caesar: 00:28:12

Well, what last sort of thoughts would you have to encourage folks who have been doing this and they're still in it and they've not given up, but it's feeling a little extra hard right now for them.

Twyla: 00:28:23

I would say just.

Twyla: 00:28:25

Be real and honest and vulnerable with God.

Twyla: 00:28:28

I think that's another really key thing is, is to name those ways that you have been disappointed.

Twyla: 00:28:34

Don't just stuff it in.

Twyla: 00:28:36

Try to ignore it, name them, but bring them to God and then leave them at his feet.

Twyla: 00:28:41

Because if we can't be honest with ourselves and we can't be honest with God, then it just feels like we're.

Twyla: 00:28:47

We're trying to wear a mask.

Twyla: 00:28:49

We're trying to keep something going and we're not fully in it.

Twyla: 00:28:53

So I think that vulnerability and transparency first with God and in when we can be in that space, it's a whole lot easier to be transparent and vulnerable with other people into.

Twyla: 00:29:05

You know, not keep up these masks, keep up, just be real with the people around you.

Twyla: 00:29:10

And I think that they're going to respect that a lot more and also relate to you a lot more if they realize that well, you know, your house, isn't clean all the time and not everything that you plan pans out the way that you wanted it to.

Twyla: 00:29:23

And there's things that you're disappointed about and there's things that you're struggling with too.

Twyla: 00:29:27

And so the way that I see organic discipleship, just in really, really simple terms is this ripple effect where.

Twyla: 00:29:34

We are open and transparent enough with what God is working out inside of us.

Twyla: 00:29:38

So it kind of just ebbs and flows into some of the conversations that we have.

Twyla: 00:29:42

And so it doesn't always have to be like, Hey, I'm, I'm teaching you all of these things.

Twyla: 00:29:46

I'm just being vulnerable about the things that God is working out inside of me.

Twyla: 00:29:50

And maybe that's going to speak to you.

Twyla: 00:29:52

It's going to plant some seeds and maybe it's going to keep growing and expanding out from there.

Twyla: 00:29:56

So I think rather than trying to overthink everything, just come back to be you be you to yourself.

Twyla: 00:30:04

Be before God be you to all the people that are literally all around you in your neighborhood

Twyla: 00:30:11

. Caesar: I love that I have nothing to add.

Twyla: 00:30:13

That's beautiful and really Sage advice for us and for our hearts.

Twyla: 00:30:17

Thank you so much for that Twyla.

Twyla: 00:30:19

Thanks again for being on.

Twyla: 00:30:20

I love it always.

Twyla: 00:30:22

You're one of my favorite people and writers, and I really respect you and your walk and your desire.

Twyla: 00:30:27

To see people take steps and try to help them draft a little bit behind what you're learning, but you're such an encourager to it's obviously God's gift in your life is to be an encourager.

Twyla: 00:30:36

But I also know you guys are living this and your practitioners and it doesn't always go perfect.

Twyla: 00:30:41

And people do ask me all the time, like, Hey, you got a lot of stories to conquest and wonder, can you, can you share some stuff that.

Twyla: 00:30:47

didn't work?

Twyla: 00:30:49

And then sometimes I find it hard because I think it's a perspective issue when we stay humble, we go like, well, I guess a lot of stuff failed, but I just see it as part of the journey and learning and, and God's working on us too.

Twyla: 00:31:02

And so I always think about everything we do is always for someone else, but God's like, no, that whole thing, actually, when I prompted you to lean into that neighborhood family, or start that rhythm up and then this, because I was just asking if you were trusting me and I'm growing your trust in some new areas.

Twyla: 00:31:15

And so then you go wait a minute.

Twyla: 00:31:16

So that wasn't.

Twyla: 00:31:17

That was grace.

Twyla: 00:31:18

That was mercy.

Twyla: 00:31:20

And so you just reminded me of that again and, and probably a whole bunch of other folks.

Twyla: 00:31:24

So thank you so much.

Twyla: 00:31:25

Thanks for being on.

Twyla: 00:31:26

I can't wait until the next time I get to have you back on the podcast with us.

Twyla: 00:31:30

Well,

Twyla: 00:31:30

thank you again, Cesar.

Twyla: 00:31:31

It's been sure.

Twyla: 00:31:32

A pleasure to talk with you.

Twyla: 00:31:33

All right.

Twyla: 00:31:34

Thank

Caesar: 00:31:34

you so much.

Caesar: 00:31:35

My goodness.

Caesar: 00:31:37

I love that.

Caesar: 00:31:38

I love her Twyla is so humble and encouraging.

Caesar: 00:31:42

I really needed to hear that today.

Caesar: 00:31:44

How about.

Caesar: 00:31:45

Maybe that'll put a little more wind in your sails.

Caesar: 00:31:48

You'll give yourself a little more grace, give others a little more grace and maybe begin to begin again.

Caesar: 00:31:54

We talk about that a lot in our coaching that we get to begin to begin again, and we oftentimes need to, so I hope today will help encourage you to do that.

Caesar: 00:32:05

Now as always, I want to leave you with the big three takeaways from today's topic.

Caesar: 00:32:09

These are like a summary of the biggest things you don't want to miss.

Caesar: 00:32:13

If nothing else you want to make sure you catch all this.

Caesar: 00:32:16

And we always make that available to you in a, as a printable PDF.

Caesar: 00:32:20

And you can get that for free as a download by going to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three.

Caesar: 00:32:27

Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three.

Caesar: 00:32:30

So here are the big three for this week and I have to thank Twyla once again for her part putting these together together.

Caesar: 00:32:37

Number one, Missional living is going to be messy, but it's a glorious mess at times.

Caesar: 00:32:45

You'll wonder why things aren't easier and why they're not moving along faster.

Caesar: 00:32:51

Sometimes you'll wonder if it really matters.

Caesar: 00:32:53

And if all of this is actually making a difference in people's lives.

Caesar: 00:32:57

There'll be days you'll feel let down disappointed or annoyed.

Caesar: 00:33:02

Let's start to expect both the good and the messy God is in there with you in both number two, humility helps us own our part and trust God to meet us in our lack.

Caesar: 00:33:16

Humility helps us not take ourselves too seriously and not be easily offended.

Caesar: 00:33:21

Humility reminds us that instead of finger pointing, when our expectations let us down, or maybe others do that, we can trust that God is at work and glorifying himself through our life.

Caesar: 00:33:35

And number three, blaming doesn't help anyone.

Caesar: 00:33:39

Instead of blaming ourselves, we can say the needed apologies and invite God to help us love better.

Caesar: 00:33:46

Instead of blaming others, we can choose to notice what's going on in their life.

Caesar: 00:33:51

Listen more and love with compassion and genuine interest.

Caesar: 00:33:56

And instead of blaming God, we can trust that he is growing good things.

Caesar: 00:34:00

Even when it doesn't look like we thought it would.

Caesar: 00:34:05

Okay.

Caesar: 00:34:05

I hope that big three summarizes a lot of what we talked about with Twyla.

Caesar: 00:34:10

Again, what a blessing.

Caesar: 00:34:11

Thank you so much, Twyla.

Caesar: 00:34:13

Time's up for today.

Caesar: 00:34:14

I hope you'll join me next week.

Caesar: 00:34:16

I'm going to be talking.

Caesar: 00:34:18

How to stop taking everything personally in your life and on mission.

Caesar: 00:34:23

And this is going to flow really well out of the conversation we had today.

Caesar: 00:34:27

I'm looking forward to it.

Caesar: 00:34:28

I hope you are.

Caesar: 00:34:29

I'll talk to you soon.

Announcer: 00:34:31

Thanks for joining us today.

Announcer: 00:34:32

For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit Everyday Disciple dot com.