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166: The Price of Pursuing The American Dream with Martin Sawa
15th September 2021 • The Beyond Adversity Podcast with Dr. Brad Miller • Dr Brad Miller
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Martin Sawa is a first-generation Ukrainian American, which comes with some issues regarding immigration. His parents escaped Nazi-ism in Ukraine to establish a life here and how he and his life then eventually navigated his way to San Francisco, where he became a player in the real estate market and became quite successful in commercial real estate. He was a self-made man but he came from humble beginnings. In his life, he had lost his wife; he descended into alcoholism, he had many other issues he had to face to come through that. In this episode, Martin Sawa shared about the demands of his life and career and how it all came crashing down on him, and he had to rebuild his life. The book is called "The other side of success." It's an account of his experiences of moving from an emigrant to success, dealing with tragedy, and healthily coming through that. He talks about how he was driven in his life. But he found spirituality. He found relationships. He found other things to get him through, hold himself out of addiction and personal tragedy to arrive at a state of peace, prosperity, and purpose. He's going to help us find meaningfulness in making money. Episode 166 of The Beyond Adversity Podcast is a must-listen for you to explore the life of faith to respond to the adversities in your life. He also talked about aligning personal core values with your business values, how they need to be in alignment, and if they're not in alignment, then you got trouble. So determine and discerning your core personal values based on faith-based relationships, based on what you know is right, ethical things to do, and put them in alignment with your business practices. "The Beyond Adversity Podcast with Dr. Brad Miller is published weekly with the mission of helping people "Grow through What They Go Through" as they navigate adversity and discover their promised life of peace, prosperity, and purpose. https://www.martinsawa.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-sawa-b690a4129/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martinlsawa/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/martinsawa2020

Transcripts

Brad Miller::

The price of pursuing the American dream with Martin Sawa the author of the other side

Brad Miller::

of success on episode number 166 of the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

Martin Sawa:

It always means putting something at stake and having downside risk. So if you don't

Martin Sawa:

achieve your goal, there is a penalty or consequence. If you don't have that, then when

Martin Sawa:

you're unmotivated, to kind of liberates you to do the things you shouldn't do.

Brad Miller:

Hello, good people. And welcome to the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

Brad Miller 1:15

It is my pleasure to welcome you to this podcast where we specialize in helping you to

Brad Miller 1:20

grow through what you go through. That is we help you to deal with adversity in your life

Brad Miller 1:27

and to get beyond it and to achieve your life of peace, prosperity, and purpose. You can

Brad Miller 1:33

always go to our archives of podcast episodes, we have over 160 episodes at Dr. Brad

Brad Miller 1:41

Miller.com. There you can find great insights from doctors and psychologists and

Brad Miller 1:48

teachers and business people and physicians and great thinkers in the area of helping

Brad Miller 1:55

you to process and to have a way to get through whatever it is you're going through. To

Brad Miller 2:03

come out to a better place. You can head to Dr. Brad Miller.com we've got a free gift for

Brad Miller 2:08

you there that can be helpful to you. And we look to speak into your life to help you to

Brad Miller 2:14

navigate beyond adversity to your life, peace, prosperity, and purpose. Today we have a

Brad Miller 2:20

great guest with us. He is an author. And he comes to us from the business world,

Brad Miller 2:27

particularly from the world of real estate, commercial real estate where he had quite a

Brad Miller 2:32

successful career. But he's speaking now not only about his success in the real estate

Brad Miller 2:40

world, but his success in dealing with difficulties in life to achieving the American dream

Brad Miller 2:48

but what price he had to pay to achieve the American dream and how he has come

Brad Miller 2:52

through that to a much better place in his life. His name is Martin Sawa. And he is a first

Brad Miller 2:58

generation Ukrainian American, which comes with it some issues regarding immigration

Brad Miller 3:05

and his folks, his parents who had escaped Nazi-ism in Ukraine in order to establish a

Brad Miller 3:10

life here and how he and his life then eventually navigated his way to San Francisco,

Brad Miller 3:16

where he became a player in the real estate market and became quite successful in

Brad Miller 3:22

commercial real estate. He was a self-made man. But he came from humble

Brad Miller 3:27

beginnings. But in his life, he had some devastating loss. He lost his wife, He

Brad Miller 3:34

descended into alcoholism. He had many other issues he had to face in his life, in order

Brad Miller 3:40

to come through that. In his life, he had transitions in his business world. And he took a

Brad Miller 3:46

risk in many things. In fact, he's going to talk about putting skin in the game. We had a

Brad Miller 3:51

great conversation here today. And he's talking about the demands of his life and career

Brad Miller 3:56

and how it all came, came crashing down on him and he had to rebuild his life. The

Brad Miller 4:03

book is called the other side of success, money and meaning the Golden State. And it's

Brad Miller 4:10

really an account of his experiences of moving from an emigrant to success, dealing

Brad Miller 4:18

with tragedy and coming through that in a healthy way. And it is about he'll talks about

Brad Miller 4:23

how he was driven in his life. But he found spirituality. He found relationships. He found

Brad Miller 4:31

other things to get him through, hold himself out of addiction and personal tragedy to

Brad Miller 4:37

arrive at a state of peace, prosperity, and purpose. He blogs at Martin sawa.com

Brad Miller 4:48

you're gonna love this conversation here on the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad

Brad Miller 4:52

Miller. So let's get into that conversation. Right now. Our special guest today is Martin

Brad Miller 5:01

Sawa. He is the author of the other side of success, money and meaning and the

Brad Miller 5:07

Golden State. And he had been very successful in the real estate world. And so many

Brad Miller 5:13

people say he's achieved the American dream. But to get there, it's been quite a story.

Brad Miller 5:19

We're going to get into the details of that. He's an immigrant person. He's had all kinds

Brad Miller 5:27

of challenges in his life, home life and financial and in the business world, and other

Brad Miller 5:33

things, other things in his life. He's got a fascinating story to tell. We're going to get into

Brad Miller 5:37

it right now. He's going to help us to find meaningfulness in making money. Our guest

Brad Miller 5:42

today, Martin Sawa. Martin, welcome to the Welcome to the podcast today.

Martin Sawa:

Hi, Dr. Brad Miller. And thanks so much for having me on.

Brad Miller:

Well, it's quite an honor to have you here on beyond adversity. And we've mentioned

Brad Miller 5:57

here in the introduction, you quite a success, the real estate world. And yet, your story is

Brad Miller 6:04

an incredible story of not only your personal story, but your family's history in Europe,

Brad Miller 6:11

about how you have had faced some challenges to get to success. And then after

Brad Miller 6:15

success, you've had some challenges too. And just tell us a little bit about your

Brad Miller 6:19

background story, where you who you the family, you come from some of the things that

Brad Miller 6:24

they face and you faced and where we stand now.

Martin Sawa:

My parents grew up in the outskirts of a city in Ukraine. And this was the years before

Martin Sawa 6:39

and during the Second World War. So they lived under Stalin and under Hitler. And in

Martin Sawa 6:47

terms of adversity, I don't think it gets any worse than that. They watched a lot of their

Martin Sawa 6:56

friends die, be deported to camps. They escaped with their wives, and then wandered

Martin Sawa 7:01

around Eastern Europe working day to day before the war, and then they spent four

Martin Sawa 7:09

years in displaced persons camp and asked me before they were allowed to immigrate

Martin Sawa 7:16

to America, I was actually conceived in one of the camps and then birth it on US soil.

Martin Sawa 7:26

So I grew up in a small town in the Midwest. And after high school, moved to Chicago,

Martin Sawa 7:35

and went to college, and then after college, I moved out west to California to make my

Martin Sawa 7:43

fortune. And I scroll forward about 10 years, I was married at the time, my wife was

Martin Sawa 7:54

pregnant, I was commuting 40 miles to a job, I hate it. And I was dead broke. So I had a

Martin Sawa 8:05

decision to make. And I quit my job and swore I would never go back without a wife.

Martin Sawa 8:13

And I got a real estate license and got into the world of commercial real estate, as a

Martin Sawa 8:20

broker. And I sold investment properties, which is the most challenging way to get in

Martin Sawa 8:27

because at that time, it took months to put a deal together. And then you have to wait

Martin Sawa 8:34

until it calls to get paid if it caused at all. So it was what took about a year before I got

Martin Sawa 8:42

my first commission check. But then I was able to start paying off my bills. And I moved

Martin Sawa 8:52

to a firm in San Francisco and over the next 10 years went up the ladder. Now I was at

Martin Sawa 9:01

the top of the game so to speak in terms of brokerage. I met my second wife. And she

Martin Sawa 9:12

had what I would call charisma in biblical sense and powers in what is called the world

Martin Sawa 9:21

of the unseen and became my spiritual mentor as well as my moral compass. Good wife

Martin Sawa 9:30

model. One night she got down. My wife changed after that. There was no way to really

Martin Sawa 9:41

describe all their fields. And so I regrouped. And over time, went back to work. became

Martin Sawa 9:52

developer with a partner. We had some major projects in downtown San Francisco. I

Martin Sawa:

went back After the practice of my faith, and in 2012, I left the business. Since then I've

Martin Sawa:

been fortunate enough to be able to do some writing, and thinking, and working on

Martin Sawa:

personal projects, helping others achieve success. And in the last, over the last few

Martin Sawa:

years, I have worked on my memoir, the other side of success, money and the meaning

Martin Sawa:

and the Golden State, which reckons in my adventures, both in my business life and in

Martin Sawa:

my personal life.

Brad Miller:

So you've had

Martin Sawa:

brought us here together

Brad Miller:

Absolutely. And certainly it is thematic for what we like to talk about here on beyond

Brad Miller:

adversity, we really believe that people love face have kind of I call them the five D’s or

Brad Miller:

the five categories of adversity one of them is, and I think your story kind of touches on

Brad Miller:

all of them one way or another. One is depression and another one is divorce or

Brad Miller:

relationship issues. Another one is a disease, you know, COVID crisis we're going

Brad Miller:

through right now. The other one is debt or money issues. Another one is death, you

11:16

know, either death of a loved one or someone in our life, when do we deal with those?

Brad Miller:

sometimes not so good, and sometimes have a process to get through that. And we'll

Brad Miller:

talk for a few minutes about your process. But you really hit some of the highest of the

Brad Miller:

highs of the business world and the lows of the lows in your personal life. And I know

Brad Miller:

that you even part of what the theme of what you're talking about here is those high

Brad Miller:

places in the business world aren't all they're cracked up to be. Is that a fair thing to

Brad Miller:

say? Or you had your challenges there as well in the business? Do you have any

Brad Miller:

success in business?

Martin Sawa:

Yes. Just as an aside, I would like to add a six d to the west.

Brad Miller:

All right, good.

Martin Sawa:

I think I experienced all five multiple times. The sixth I would call degree. And guess the

Martin Sawa:

degree within that category of the adversity

Brad Miller:

Yes. So say more about that. What do you mean, when you say degree? could you

Brad Miller:

please go deeper, please?

Martin Sawa:

Well, you can experience death. But it can be the death of a loved one. You've had time

Martin Sawa:

to tie all the loose ends with the way to an advanced age is part of the passing process.

Martin Sawa:

Or you can experience the death of a child at a young age to a violence circumstances.

Martin Sawa:

And they're quite out, though. They're both about that. But they're quantifiably different

Martin Sawa:

experiences.

Brad Miller:

that's very insightful and helpful. And it seems to me that you have been working very

Brad Miller:

hard through your memoir, your book here. And so the things you're really doing a

Brad Miller:

processing the things that you have had success with and got through and developing

Brad Miller:

your thinking towards this, and just like to ask you, Martin, what are you mentioned least

Brad Miller:

one of them, but I would like you to unpack for us. What do you think are some of the

Brad Miller:

actions that you took, that helped you to process this rather than being stuck? You

Brad Miller:

know, you're part of what I like to do is help people to get unstuck from wherever they're

Brad Miller:

at. And you probably you and I probably know, people who've been stuck, you had a

Brad Miller:

bad job or a bad marriage or in depression, something like that. What are some things

Brad Miller:

you did to help you to take some action to break some patterns there? What are some

Brad Miller:

actions that you took?

Martin Sawa:

In the world of business, it's very competitive. And, again, it's an arena for combat. And

Martin Sawa:

it's sort of neutral. It's what you make of it and what your actions are. So I would say the

Martin Sawa:

first step was to, I didn't like the job I had. And I didn't have couldn't support my family.

Martin Sawa:

And I reasoned that I really needed to become an entrepreneur, well, which essentially,

Martin Sawa:

is what I was, what was always an independent contractor life. And then I took

Martin Sawa:

responsibility for them. And, you know, the technical aspects, one could pick up pretty

Martin Sawa:

quickly, or in today's world, watch some webinars or whatever, but it's really the desire

Martin Sawa:

and the drive to succeed at all costs. There's a Japanese proverb that goes false down

Martin Sawa:

seven times get up eight. And that's really the mind form in the world of business. And

Martin Sawa:

but as one achieves success, it's always at a cost. There's always a flip side. And

Martin Sawa:

people see very wealthy people or celebrities, whatever can be saved on social media.

Martin Sawa:

And boy, these people have no problems, then pay a price or whatever. And it's just

Martin Sawa:

because these people can afford publicity things, right? Who sometimes it's just a thing,

Brad Miller:

sometimes the thick layer makeup, sometimes physically, but also in terms of their

Brad Miller:

Images have been big, caked-on and that's the thing.

Martin Sawa:

In my case, I had a problem with alcohol ever since I was a little kid. Tell them we grew

Martin Sawa:

up and had 5000 people and about 40 pounds, which is a pretty high ratio.

Brad Miller:

Of course what most a lot not a lot of heavy-duty drinking was going on sounds

Martin Sawa:

We do. You can avoid alcohol. Can’t really come into the vernacular, your was your to

Martin Sawa:

physically drink. But it caught up with me later in life as I was building deals and flying

Martin Sawa:

cities internationally and going to no words, then all of that came to the point. And the

Martin Sawa:

incidents are described, good for him in the book. Where my marriage with my second

Martin Sawa:

life there it was either I had to stop it, or whatnot. And that was it. So I made a decision.

Martin Sawa:

And I dealt with the alcohol and then went on but as I found out all through my life, that

Martin Sawa:

doesn't mean your problems won't end. It's always a continuing series of challenges.

Martin Sawa:

And the more you push yourself, whether in business or in life and raise the stakes, the

Martin Sawa:

more you will be tested. That's just the way it is.

Brad Miller:

But you've mentioned two or three actions that you took, and I just wanted to kind of

Brad Miller:

reflect with you what I'm hearing, you say, aging, you left your first job, do you become

Brad Miller:

an entrepreneur into the real estate world, and because of circumstances that you had

Brad Miller:

and not having enough money and so on. Then you left eventually when you had

Brad Miller:

success. You eventually left that didn't do what you're doing basic now become a writer

Brad Miller:

and a people, a coach, as it were to help others. And then also when you had the death

Brad Miller:

of your wife, you had to deal with that deal with the grief. And then you also had to deal

Brad Miller:

with the alcoholism, you took some steps to deal with those. And that's an awesome

Brad Miller:

thing. And I commend you on that. And yet you are also very mindful of all those ups

Brad Miller:

and downs and all this is a difficult journey. And on this journey of processing adversity

Brad Miller:

to get past into a better place, it's hard to do it on your own. I just wonder you

Brad Miller:

mentioned that your wife, your second wife who passed away so early in life was a

Brad Miller:

woman of faith and help to also keep you on the straight and narrow they guess how

Brad Miller:

you put it, say a word about two things about relationships with people who can help

Brad Miller:

you keep on the straight and narrow or help you keep some of have accountability, and

Brad Miller:

then anything having to do with connecting to a higher power, whether it's a faith

Brad Miller:

situation or meditation, or something beyond yourself, you say a little bit about those

Brad Miller:

things, if they were factors in how you travel this road

Martin Sawa:

of faith has always been a part of my life. My parents came from a place that was

Martin Sawa:

subject to totalitarian regimes where the first thing one does is establish an atheistic

Martin Sawa:

state. Well, there's no question on who one believes. So when I grew up in this little

Martin Sawa:

town in Wisconsin, we were Roman Catholic. I was an altar boy in grade school. I went

Martin Sawa:

to a Jesuit High School, which happened to be conveniently located in the town. It was

Martin Sawa:

a boarding school, that I went as a town student to learn far more in high school than

Martin Sawa:

ever and then bounce back. Then after I left town and did go to college. The features

Martin Sawa:

were the practice of faith just started to fade away. And I think this was there was no big

Martin Sawa:

moment. No, it's just the secularization of this country over the last 15 years. And I kind

Martin Sawa:

of went along with it. There was never a point where I, I didn't believe, but I just, I didn't

Martin Sawa:

practice and it didn't affect my life. After my wife passed, I was alone. And would my

Martin Sawa:

spiritual mentor is gone. And I turned back to my faith. To deal with the grief, I practice

Martin Sawa:

Zen meditation. I studied Judaism, I studied, the depth practices of other religions

Martin Sawa:

eventually came to where I decided to go to a retreat, it was at a Jesuit retreat facility

Martin Sawa:

here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I was nestled in the hills, right in Silicon Valley,

Martin Sawa:

right above the mansions of the tech moguls. And there was there that I made a

Martin Sawa:

commitment to go back to the original practice of my Catholic faith. So I ended steps to

Martin Sawa:

do that, and have been doing that ever since.

Brad Miller:

That's awesome. say more about, I just feel like your wife. And there's been some other

Brad Miller:

people have maybe spoken to your life, maybe through these retreats and things like

Brad Miller:

that, who helped help hold you accountable through some of these ups and downs, I'm

Brad Miller:

thinking your time of alcoholism and your time of making some really hard decisions to

Brad Miller:

leave, I believe that you had been quite successful in the business, that real estate

Brad Miller:

world into leave that had to be, I imagined, so people were saying, What are you doing,

Brad Miller:

man? What are you doing, Martin? That kind of thing was going on. But how were

Brad Miller:

relationships? mostly good, but perhaps even some challenging a part of the process of

Brad Miller:

being helpful to you? Or what part did they play?

Martin Sawa:

The book itself took me a while to organize the structure. But it's sort of alternating

Martin Sawa:

between my business life and my personal life. And you're one person and it's one

Martin Sawa:

brain, one personality, but I kind of compartmentalize and thought if I could manage

Martin Sawa:

each one, by itself, the one-man problem becomes there, there are no core values to

Martin Sawa:

align you in the world of business. So when you go astray, you have to have some

Martin Sawa:

ability to align it with the core values which come on the personal side, and come

Martin Sawa:

through the religious practice of faith and come through other means, so to speak. So

Martin Sawa:

my second wife was hugely instrumental in that, in addition, and

Martin Sawa:

In addition, I formed a relationship with a psychic medium. And I'm not here to convince

Martin Sawa:

your listeners on this whole subject matter. Suffice it to say that I was a hardened

Martin Sawa:

skeptic. And in business, I dealt with people's names you see in the paper, and masters

Martin Sawa:

of illusion when it comes to making money. And I came to the conclusion that there's a

Martin Sawa:

small, tiny handful of people who have the ability to access information through

Martin Sawa:

unexplainable means. And it's up to the individual to determine how they do it if they

Martin Sawa:

can ever determine, but the proof is always in the pudding if I get practical results. So I

Martin Sawa:

made that decision to to to use that resource and use it sparingly and wisely and really,

Martin Sawa:

it was Mary Jo. Both Anita and I have known her for about five years before I need a

Martin Sawa:

pass and after Nina did pass, she was the most instrumental factor in dealing with me

Martin Sawa:

Before moving on, and I learned that love can survive physical death.

Brad Miller:

I think gives you a kind of a connection as it were. Thread as it were through some of

Brad Miller:

the other things we've talked about, about grief and success and hard decisions to

Brad Miller:

leave careers and deal with the success sets because success is hard to deal with. And

Brad Miller:

what you say in your book is you want to find meaningfulness in this life, and that's a

Brad Miller:

search, I think we all have is to find meaningfulness. And I believe a part of that has to

Brad Miller:

do with what we've talked about here, that emotional thing, that relationship, I believe

Brad Miller:

there's a spiritual element, there's the element kind of almost a physical, the taking

Brad Miller:

action piece when there's many people gets stuck by just not taking action. But I think

Brad Miller:

another part of the kind of the cognitive, or the kind of everyday piece is what are our

Brad Miller:

habits or disciplines. Or what are we doing now that we didn't do before. So what I'd like

Brad Miller:

for you to speak if you went to any part of your life, any habits or disciplines, old

Brad Miller:

practices, especially things you may teach in your book, that can be helpful to us in

Brad Miller:

terms of having meaningfulness in life and having success.

Martin Sawa:

Though, it's always helpful to have a mentor, boy who has your best interest of hearts,

Martin Sawa:

and his profession, in whatever is the specific subject area you want to get help in,

Martin Sawa:

which is not always easy, because even family and friends oftentimes won't have the

Martin Sawa:

best interest. So I’m pretty self-directed. So I try to figure out how I needed to address

Martin Sawa:

the problem, what my tangible goal was a tangible, measurable goal

Martin Sawa:

find the perfect mate or whatever, tantrum, Pacific ball. So in the case of alcoholism, I

Martin Sawa:

dealt with what I call a control program of moderation. I would stop, or I go, maybe days,

Martin Sawa:

even weeks without breaking. And then if I had the urge, I would have a beer to really

Martin Sawa:

more than three. And that way I was able to function and not feel like my dad did, who

27:42

went cold turkey to a tremendous after well, but then know how to fill the hole became

27:50

somber and morose for the rest of his life. So it's finding kind of what works for you.

Martin Sawa:

When I talk to people, and they asked my advice, In general, the first question I asked

Martin Sawa:

them is what do you believe to be true? Okay, again, this is from the top down. If you

Martin Sawa:

believe life starts at zero, and infancy, then that's fine. To be true to yourself, you're

Martin Sawa:

going a certain way. And you may achieve great success and be an asshole, but not

Martin Sawa:

caring. Because that's your voice. Is that your worldview? But if you believe there's

Martin Sawa:

more than that, and what is it you believe in giveaway them in a personal God before

Martin Sawa:

even the power of prayer, listening. And as you assemble your tools, and it comes down

Martin Sawa:

to practice, religion what happens to the line, the ritual is the vast shares always the

Martin Sawa:

atonement, the confession, you treat these things seriously. You develop a personal plan.

Brad Miller:

That's part of your process is the practice, how you apply these things to your life. And

Brad Miller:

one of the things I saw in my notes here is the theme of your book and of, having

Brad Miller:

meaning most in your life is to have skin in the game, in business, and in life. Unpack

Brad Miller:

that for us a little bit. But I think it's a part of your process. If I'm understanding you,

Brad Miller:

Martin, part of your process is to invest to get a return. So tell us what you mean by that

Brad Miller:

in terms of business and in your meaningfulness of life.

Martin Sawa:

It's kind of game is a central theme of the book. In business, it means risking your time

Martin Sawa:

your mining your reputation, and further and silver for your business goals. But in life,

Martin Sawa:

that always means putting something at stake and having downside risk. So if you don't

Martin Sawa:

achieve your goal, there is a penalty or consequence to be paid. If you don't have that,

Martin Sawa:

then when you're unmotivated, and it kind of liberates you to do things you shouldn't do.

Martin Sawa:

And that's what you see what a lot of the internet trolls are, they're anonymous. So they

Martin Sawa:

Can take somebody down, destroy their life. But if they're unsuccessful or caught,

Martin Sawa:

there's no punishment. They have nothing on the downside, so it just scores me even

Martin Sawa:

more. So that's what I mean by the skin in the game.

Brad Miller:

Very good that I think it's helpful to know you got to you know, you got to risk something

Brad Miller:

in order to get to gain something, it's not just you know, the bottom line, money-wise, it

Brad Miller:

is the bottom line of your life. And one of the things you've done is you've put yourself

Brad Miller:

out there by writing a book. Writing a book is a vulnerable thing to do. It's an intense

Brad Miller:

thing to do. It's something where you're saying, here's my story, but also here is what I

Brad Miller:

can share with you. How you can make some changes in your life as well. And I think

Brad Miller:

it's getting to know you, it's a part of your heart is to help serve other people. So tell us a

Brad Miller:

little bit about how your book or your teaching have to serve someone else. Maybe

Brad Miller:

someone you know personally or coach or part of your business, maybe someone who

Brad Miller:

read your book. Can you tell us about some situations where you've been influential,

Brad Miller:

someone where you've been able to take your life lessons, and then be helpful to someone else.

Martin Sawa:

I brought my business career. I've mentored protegees. So the book reveals how I dealt

Martin Sawa:

with that and how I made them put skin in the game and their eventual success. But I

Martin Sawa:

think the most compelling story is the work I did with my stepson. And this was later in

Martin Sawa:

my final marriage after my wife passed, then he was by at the time in his mid-20s. He

Martin Sawa:

was a young black man living in Jackson, Mississippi. He was between a paraplegic

Martin Sawa:

and a quadriplegic as a result of a childhood car accident. He was on pain medication,

Martin Sawa:

doing other drugs just to stay coherent. That's adversity. I mean, compared to what I

Martin Sawa:

would, like, right? point a much more compelling. So I thought, I took it as a challenge to

Martin Sawa:

see how he could improve his life. And I wouldn't be able to offer advice and never to

Martin Sawa:

tell him what to do. But I had some definite ideas that I had accumulated over the years.

Martin Sawa:

So we set about that, and the outcome is today. He is no good. By the way, he finished

Martin Sawa:

high school, but he had no other professional training time. Today, he is a DevOps

Martin Sawa:

Engineer while he owns a new home. He made sure that investments in oil were safe

Martin Sawa:

physically, financially, and otherwise independent lifestyle. That's like a quantum. And that's a success.

Brad Miller:

Oh, absolutely. That's a great story. Because I'm sure you care about the people read

Brad Miller:

your book and you care about the people you've mentored in business and prodigies as

Brad Miller:

you say, but this is family. This is someone that you have a connection with that goes,

Brad Miller:

deeper than those other connections that you have and make all the difference in the world.

Martin Sawa:

Well, there's the element of a personal challenge. I know what worked for me. But then

Martin Sawa:

what would work for other people? And so I had to test them. And it's the practical result

Martin Sawa:

against specific tangible goals with measurable outcomes.

Brad Miller:

which outlines your process and that's what we're all about here is to have people, how

Brad Miller:

people can get stuck in adversity, whatever it is, but in order to get out of it, to get

Brad Miller:

beyond it. It doesn't often happen a snap of the fingers you got to have a process and

Brad Miller:

what I love about what you teach us here in your Book is the other side of success is

Brad Miller:

about that process of getting through that. Before we close here Martin, are there any

Brad Miller:

other things that you just want to share that are really on your heart that you'd want to

Brad Miller:

share with our audience here today that can be something they can just take with them

Brad Miller:

a nugget they can take with them?

Martin Sawa:

Well, obviously, I'd appreciate it if you took the time to get my book and read it. The

Martin Sawa:

easiest way to do that is just go on my website Martinsawa.com. And there was one

Martin Sawa:

quote you can buy it from Amazon or the bookseller of your choice. You can check me

Martin Sawa:

out on social media. And you can scroll down to the bottom and send me an email and I

Martin Sawa:

love to hear from my readers, and wants to hear their individual success stories.

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