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This week we sit with 1989 World DMC champion, life long turntablist and DMC ambassador Cutmaster Swift.

The conversation covers the early exposure to music, DJing, and hip hop, the evolution of turntablism, and the development of the hip hop scene in London. It also delves into the funding and organization of hip hop events, the business side of the industry, and the growth of the scene in other areas like Leeds. Cutmaster Swift shares his journey as a DJ, from battling and competing to evolving the craft of turntablism. He discusses the competitive nature of DJing, the influence of American DJs, and the evolution of techniques and routines. He emphasizes the importance of individuality and creativity in DJ performances.

Keywords

hip hop, DJing, turntablism, music exposure, London scene, hip hop events, business side, Leeds scene, DJing, turntablism, competition, battling, routines, techniques, evolution, individuality, creativity

Takeaways

• Early exposure to music and DJing in the context of family influence and childhood exploration.
• The evolution of turntablism and the impact of influential DJs and events on the hip hop scene.
• The development of the hip hop scene in London, including the funding and organization of events, the business side of the industry, and the growth of the scene in other areas like Leeds. The competitive nature of DJing and the influence of American DJs.
• The evolution of DJ techniques and routines, emphasizing individuality and creativity.
• The importance of confidence and comfort in one's own style and the ability to introduce new music to the audience.

00:00:07.000 Welcome to the once a DJ podcast.

00:00:14.000 They've given me a massive buzz at times and loads of stress at others

00:00:20.000 On this podcast I speak to DJs from around the world who've made the names

00:00:28.000 We'll discuss their journey through a sentencing and what part it plays in their life now.

00:00:35.820 mixing when life gives them the chance.

00:00:41.720 Cutmaster Swift, welcome on to once a DJ, how are you doing today?

00:00:56.920 Amazing. We've had quite a few turntable lists and London is on, but I think what would be different

00:01:08.600 how old I am. There's no kind of nice way of saying it, is there? I understand the feeling old now,

00:01:21.320 really I'm really interested in learning about how you were kind of exposed to

00:01:32.360 or you came about at that time I should say when hip-hop and DJing and

00:01:43.580 more disparate now so yeah if you could give us a bit of your background

00:01:53.960 You know the typical household they say back in the day

00:02:03.760 I'm first generation UK because my parents are from Jamaica like I just said so pretty much it was always a

00:02:17.500 And basically my dad pretty much, you're talking about no clubs,

00:02:30.140 collection and basically I wanted to interfere with that

00:02:39.500 from around the age of five and six. We had a gramophone. That's your multimedia today people.

00:02:51.420 gave me some old seven inches for me to explore and destroy. But what do you do when you're a kid?

00:03:01.180 alerts are touching. You want to mess around with their stuff. So I always got myself into trouble

00:03:13.260 The initial stages of hip-hop, it kind of crept in really because there wasn't a distinctive

00:03:26.620 tend to forget. So today when people talk about open format, DJ's been able to play everything,

00:03:38.860 part is finding that instrumental section on whatever that music genre was. Again, growing up,

00:03:53.820 from parents, but to fit in at school, you find out about pop culture. So, you know, growing up at

00:04:05.360 three channels so we was exposed to everything old school and you was the remote control

00:04:17.980 you know so you you try and discover other things that most times your parents do not

00:04:31.540 remembrance of being exposed to hip hop was probably rappers delight just through

00:04:44.820 style, I kind of knew that as a twang or a slang that they used to talk in America

00:04:57.940 and adapt the words as quick as possible. So when I heard rappers delight, I recognized the rhythm,

00:05:08.820 my parents had sheet good times. So, you know, that's what I identified that rhythm from.

00:05:20.660 would have been Malcolm McLaren's Buffalo Girls because that got media attention very

00:05:33.380 new and adventurous. So when he exposed the beboying and the rapping and stuff from the Bronx,

00:05:47.340 So when I saw the acrobatic dancing and the turntable being manipulated in certain ways,

00:05:56.700 I wanted more of that.

00:06:01.780 You did your own.

00:06:06.620 You'd even be lucky if you found other people that were similar to that.

00:06:15.600 Seeing that and being exposed to it. I was very excited but

00:06:24.780 You know not everyone didn't just all of a sudden go and buy a windbreaker

00:06:33.880 isolated

00:06:40.700 D-boys at school.

00:06:48.180 There was DJs before us, but there were more sound system based, like your mastermind and

00:06:57.500 These were the people that did the part jams that used to be privileged to go to and see

00:07:03.540 So when it came to our calling with hip hop, you kind of just had to investigate things

00:07:11.580 Like I said, people usually just identify, you do that rolling around on the floor thing.

00:07:22.540 and was doing all the moves and stuff.

00:07:26.420 I was never a dancer.

00:07:33.220 And basically, yeah, we formed a B-Boy group at school.

00:07:44.740 all the other pop styles of rap.

00:07:55.300 That all came much, much later.

00:07:59.740 I went to, I was in my teams and literally I went to a community centre and I saw for

00:08:11.700 That guy was by the name of Cosmic Jam and I met him and a guy called Rodney P.

00:08:20.760 They told me about this place called Covent Garden and that's where you needed to go to

00:08:30.840 Because that's what it was.

00:08:32.840 No one actually thought he had any longevity.

00:08:39.840 The whole advertising was that it kept us out of trouble.

00:08:47.940 we were now dancing and you know,

00:08:52.540 So yeah, I pretty much got down to Covent Garden

00:08:59.300 and knowledge of did Bunkoff School a couple of times as well.

00:09:06.620 was it Jazzy B that was DJing or organizing it?

00:09:14.460 You know, obviously there was a place called the African Center

00:09:19.860 We're talking very early 80s, so we're talking 82.83.

00:09:25.240 - Most people said, some people said they weren't coming

00:09:29.660 I was definitely there from about 83,

00:09:33.500 And Covent Garden, if you know it,

00:09:38.820 that's what it was.

00:09:44.540 And it was the Mecca for London, I would say.

00:09:51.620 north or east, we all went there

00:09:57.660 and we got to know each other at that place.

00:10:03.900 that's why I met, I love a lot of dancers

00:10:09.260 and got recognized around that time,

00:10:16.020 from the legendary Prince Genswift,

00:10:19.740 'cause they came over in '82 to perform,

00:10:26.660 some thing they were doing at the time.

00:10:31.540 were the crew in Buffalo Girls,

00:10:35.540 I don't know how, I think I had a paper round,

00:10:37.980 and just went and saw them and I saw them three times.

00:10:45.660 He called himself the son of Bambata at the time and he did a mixtape called the Zulu

00:10:52.300 And we got privy to these little tapes coming out of New York, being dubbed about a billion

00:11:00.100 So when you actually had your copy, I don't know what generation copies I had, but they

00:11:08.500 And that's when we heard about people like Jazzy J, obviously,

00:11:16.140 cool DJ Red Alert, all these people on these tapes.

00:11:24.740 Grandmaster Flash and then Grand Wizard Theodore.

00:11:32.180 and other ones like the death mix, then you had your kind of like,

00:11:38.540 Because you just, remember, you're just hearing portions

00:11:44.420 We didn't know what these records were.

00:11:48.320 So if we heard, for example,

00:11:54.980 called assembly line by the Commodore's.

00:11:59.660 Not the easy and light Sunday morning and hello

00:12:05.540 You know, I'm talking about raw funk soul records.

00:12:11.860 cool in the gang.

00:12:17.900 These were the music that we grew up on.

00:12:24.540 and we recognized them,

00:12:29.940 of these bands, we realized, wait a minute,

00:12:34.060 Oh, that's where that came from. Oh my God.

00:12:36.900 And early Earth Winding in fact, it's pretty hard as well, isn't it?

00:12:42.780 Nobody had any hard sound in it.

00:12:45.900 Most definitely.

00:12:48.220 Fact-back band, the whole lot of them.

00:12:53.980 because again, they're not all from one place.

00:13:00.740 Philadelphia had a sound.

00:13:07.860 or you was on Motown, they all had an individual sound. And hip hop, if you remember, especially

00:13:19.060 to them. So, the early records that I bought is hip hop, then when it started to creep through,

00:13:36.940 talking about having records that were like, that will fill a milk crate. This is the original

00:13:48.740 And then you found out more as books appeared, say David Troup, I believe did one, and it

00:14:01.260 and sold those records and literally also went back in back cut a log of music. So like

00:14:14.420 at the time although they were probably expensive in reality terms. Yeah I went back and I bought

00:14:25.260 And obviously, Sugihull was the label that Rapper's Delight was on,

00:14:31.260 And then you had Paul Winley.

00:14:35.300 So these were the records that you went back on after being initiated from,

00:14:45.780 and what they were wrapping on.

00:14:48.020 Where were you learning about what to go back to then at that point? Because when I got into

00:15:02.260 I had a job where I could just sit and not do a lot and I would just read about music all

00:15:13.860 to even just find out, okay, go get this label.

00:15:20.220 like in the 90s, you know, you had like waxed-

00:15:22.860 - Or was it things?

00:15:26.980 we're talking about the whole thing moving

00:15:32.620 So, all of a sudden, like I said,

00:15:38.860 a whole universe of hip-hoppers, you know?

00:15:46.460 And again, people took positions.

00:15:50.300 some people became graph writers, some were dancers.

00:15:58.340 the pirate radio DJs, most importantly, that led the way.

00:16:06.100 that we saw star information from.

00:16:13.500 you're talking about LWR,

00:16:17.820 you're talking about Jaz FM.

00:16:23.640 and you would then find that DJ,

00:16:30.820 that was the most important thing to you in your life,

00:16:39.220 And then these DJs will tell you where things were happening.

00:16:45.060 which they started doing, which was daytime as well,

00:16:49.260 So we started going to a club called Spats, for example,

00:16:54.900 off the street, sorry.

00:16:58.420 started running that later on, Westwood took it over,

00:17:02.700 But yeah, it was daytime stuff,

00:17:08.300 Garden and go record hunting. It was literally a day out of just mayhem and madness. And

00:17:20.500 skill. You know, what are you? I'm a B-boy. I really? Let's see what you've got. Okay,

00:17:28.380 go to the record store. There they were. The same people. You go to the hip-hop jam.

00:17:39.340 It was in exciting and forever evolving thing.

00:17:47.420 You just couldn't afford to miss anything.

00:17:54.500 but back then I guess you would have been able to spot your tribe pretty quickly.

00:18:00.340 Yes.

00:18:03.740 It's pretty safe to something that there there be by be girl right.

00:18:28.540 That was the look.

00:18:32.980 a West Coast mix that we got from the UK.

00:18:40.300 by the East Coast, but the G-funk stuff,

00:18:46.980 but you know, it was just funky, you know.

00:18:51.860 from a Hawaii players, all that stuff

00:18:56.420 And this is what the West Coast googitated on

00:19:01.700 But on the East then you had, you know,

00:19:06.540 and or wherever Kana bands with that more lipstick funk

00:19:13.180 He was the thing that everybody liked, you know,

00:19:17.780 So yeah, you identify people by their looks

00:19:24.380 had some relation in the America coming back

00:19:30.980 that we remember, we was very limited.

00:19:36.460 I had a pair of trainers called Gola.

00:19:40.500 You know, it wasn't Adidas and it wasn't night.

00:19:45.020 when I was at school, you know what I mean?

00:19:50.260 and Adidas Sambers and Adidas Gazels were the trainers

00:19:56.780 were the real fashionable expensive trainers.

00:20:03.500 a goose jacket, which is a big puffy jacket

00:20:11.180 You know, and that look was definitely

00:20:15.940 So anybody who had that style back in the 80s,

00:20:22.060 they are serious Beboys.

00:20:26.060 added these windbreakers, obviously,

00:20:31.000 were really the two focal ones at the time.

00:20:34.880 There was all sorts of brands, but yeah,

00:20:40.680 in those days.

00:20:45.760 And something I've thought about before this conversation

00:20:52.160 people more about the DJ names than I do.

00:20:55.480 - But, Cutmaster Swift, you kind of struck Lucky there

00:21:00.440 that as time goes on, they're like,

00:21:04.760 but Cutmaster Swift's just like,

00:21:09.840 You know what I mean?

00:21:14.400 - Some people say, you know what, funny enough,

00:21:19.520 They went, I've never seen you DJ.

00:21:23.520 So they just call me Swiftie or Swift, you know,

00:21:29.280 to be taken seriously as a DJ by other dancers

00:21:34.960 and I was quite popular at a move called Windmill.

00:21:39.920 and I won't tell everybody how many carpet burns

00:21:44.360 That's why it was that good, because, you know,

00:21:49.160 you know about pain, you know, and warm marks.

00:21:56.360 because they didn't identify me as cutmaster Swift.

00:22:03.880 not even when I was in a group called the Imperial Mixers.

00:22:12.440 professional gear, that means, knowing that,

00:22:17.320 could have back in those days was a pair of SL-1200s and nobody had them you know we just saw them

00:22:31.160 Forger a drummer for a Courtney Pines drum for Courtney Pines professional drummer and he had one

00:22:45.240 Phonic mixer. I had a battery built Phonic mixer and I had Jarrar belt driven decks. So

00:22:58.600 by going to other people's houses. Realistically, my strength became knowing music and that's how

00:23:11.640 That's the one thing no one could deny me of.

00:23:18.680 And a week later or two weeks later, I'd have it.

00:23:22.960 And I was even telling people, oh, you should probably buy that record, you know?

00:23:27.560 And people said, well, thanks for that.

00:23:30.360 And I went back, damn, oh, that's what that is.

00:23:37.560 And by looking at record grooves, notice that they're darker, that's where the instrument

00:23:44.000 And just going by record labels, you know, and I never did it, but the obvious thing

00:23:52.480 You read the credits of records and study the musicians in those records, nine times

00:24:04.320 the same stuff.

00:24:11.320 Knives out at 10 he'll have a solo. He'll have his little part

00:24:20.960 You knew that sound you knew you saw a record produced by James Brown

00:24:27.600 You know I mean the same band the same members and so forth

00:24:37.440 But yeah, going back to the original question about the name Swift, no, that wasn't a name that was accepted very quickly.

00:24:54.140 grand mixers, random wizards and so forth and cool and this and that but not that many

00:25:09.260 swift. Yeah, yeah, it works and I'm quite a hard head. You know, someone say they don't

00:25:21.020 you like it. Accept it. You know, people know me know that I'm a very determined guy. I always,

00:25:33.340 So how are you first exposed to turntableism then beyond the kind of mixtapes that you mentioned,

00:25:47.900 it elsewhere. Well, the very first scratch mix I heard was Grandmaster Flashes of

00:25:59.020 sense. That, you know, I can understand what he's doing, you know, it's rhythm the

00:26:09.300 started doing something called pause button mixing and that taught me about

00:26:16.900 try and get a seamless loop. But I think I mentioned earlier, the very first DJ I actually

00:26:26.820 person I actually saw with a pair of turntables and the mixer physically in front of my face.

00:26:40.300 play in events like the Notting Carnival because Mastermind was a sound system,

00:26:50.540 then they started really dwelling deeper into the hip-hop stuff because

00:27:01.340 bringing over a guy by the name of Whiskid and Whiskid is the DJ from a

00:27:08.900 I could say it's the most successful record people

00:27:12.740 Now Wizkid, if I was to really try and describe him,

00:27:20.740 if you know about Scratchy, or this guy looks really good,

00:27:26.260 He's got so many techniques, he looks really,

00:27:31.940 That was Wizkid.

00:27:37.780 of scratching to my knowledge.

00:27:41.700 obviously by a cueing and then becoming

00:27:45.660 But Whiskey, I always saw him as somebody

00:27:51.980 So when people talking about the turntable

00:27:55.540 really?

00:27:58.620 But that's how my mind works.

00:28:02.180 I always would say these are really outstanding things.

00:28:08.900 As that going to be that.

00:28:12.660 That's the way I always visualize things.

00:28:18.820 the first American DJ who just put this stuff together

00:28:26.300 all sorts of music.

00:28:30.220 you know, Africa Islam introduced me to the pleasure boys

00:28:34.900 All these DJs introduced me to different types of records.

00:28:39.860 to Apache because he cuts it in the wings of the wheels

00:28:43.940 But yeah, so these all the records I kind of identified

00:28:48.860 And then literally, I think I used to stalk the guy personally

00:28:54.980 and always try and talk to him and I was a b-boy

00:29:00.100 You gotta watch out one day for the name cut master Swift

00:29:06.020 Come on, eh?

00:29:07.940 He said really, he goes to me,

00:29:12.300 I would love to, you know, he gave me encouragement, you know?

00:29:16.780 - And unfortunately, he passed by the time I finally made

00:29:24.180 because there was people before me like,

00:29:28.100 Jay, who was a breakbeats master,

00:29:31.880 Cosmic Jam was an all-rounder.

00:29:39.320 He was quite aggressive with anyone.

00:29:47.160 You don't bow down to anybody.

00:29:51.160 'cause a lot of UK people bow down to the Americans.

00:29:57.120 it came from them so they, you know, you gave them that respect of level. But this guy,

00:30:07.920 treated the same, you know what I mean? And one time, some Americans came over, Jazzy

00:30:21.520 And yeah, Mastermind, Max and Dave, probably aware of those names, were part of Mastermind.

00:30:35.680 And Cosmic Jam, Sam Al talked himself into the jam, performing and out doing, he was

00:30:45.640 He was DJing and doing body tricks and he was laughing at it.

00:30:55.940 gave me my energy and how to adopt things as well as being a bebo. You hip hop is very

00:31:14.660 you live to fight another day. That's basic now it was everybody showed their skills and

00:31:20.560 So, you know, some B-boy battles are still going on today

00:31:25.520 (laughs)

00:31:29.720 But yeah, just one thing.

00:31:33.120 - So it can't be cheap at that time getting

00:31:38.560 If that was something that had happened in the early 2000s,

00:31:46.440 So who would have been arranging and booking something like that?

00:31:51.300 Yeah, you know what?

00:31:58.140 And what basically happened when we started going to Covent Garden, we started

00:32:08.260 get a meal, have a shower and stuff and be sent on their way.

00:32:13.460 And literally it became our haven to be boy because the police were moving us on from

00:32:26.580 And we wasn't wanted anywhere, you know, you know, he's youths and so forth.

00:32:31.860 The center they saw it for what it is.

00:32:36.780 It's these kids are so talented and they gave us the opportunity.

00:32:42.700 where's it going? And we talked to them and we said, you know, yeah, we, you know, we

00:32:54.060 our behalf to get a grant through the Arts Council, the GLC back in the Daily Great

00:33:06.620 to put up an event in Covent Garden and it was called Freestyle 85 and that event to me was a true

00:33:27.180 people who had connections and saw it as talented it was and then around then as well

00:33:40.580 It is the blueprint of how we kind of did what we did with freestyle 85

00:33:50.500 To do this event so yeah, we put on be boys and so forth

00:34:02.860 There was obviously a guy called Ricky Reynolds as well called that formed up union called the hip-hop alliance

00:34:11.460 Kids with talent go in the studio if they've got talents to go in the studio if they got design talents can design me

00:34:23.700 That have knowledge of the business side of it because you get you got to remember we were kind of kids

00:34:34.220 You didn't ask them how much.

00:34:42.300 with a little bit of a prize money.

00:34:48.020 and I bought drinks for me mates, you know, and bought some

00:34:53.020 That's how it was, you know.

00:34:58.980 I would say that all came a bit later as we grew older and then we all started developing

00:35:12.500 B-boy, he was a very brilliant Popper, you know, and Mello then moved into MCing. So MC Duke,

00:35:31.320 carving

00:35:38.580 So you used to make him be a manager and talk all the talk

00:35:48.020 Things were coming around.

00:35:54.100 you sell it on the back of,

00:35:58.220 There's talented kids everywhere.

00:36:03.660 Excuse me, mate, can you dance?

00:36:07.780 Things like that, it just happened.

00:36:14.820 I'm obviously always talking from a London perspective,

00:36:22.940 I went to Leeds, and I met this guy called King Monk,

00:36:29.860 and he showed me the whole history of Leeds

00:36:33.820 that came down south to London to develop their career,

00:36:39.060 And the detail in this museum he gave was fantastic,

00:36:50.980 Because I mean, we used to go to other areas,

00:36:56.580 So, you know, we used to go down to Nottingham

00:37:03.260 respect to resting peace, to sly

00:37:07.900 these are the guys that we used to see

00:37:12.420 So we used to go to Nottingham

00:37:19.100 we'd go out of London and go find all the record shops

00:37:25.660 - Yeah.

00:37:28.580 So DJ Pogo, aspiring partner of mine,

00:37:34.420 used to go up to Manchester and buy a whole heap of breaks

00:37:41.780 of whatever he didn't want.

00:37:46.820 Yeah, there's a couple records there you could go there.

00:37:50.540 people's downs, 'cause we used to really go for records.

00:37:56.420 or the men, whatever, that's what's your boat,

00:38:01.300 DJ's for life, yeah.

00:38:08.140 Okay, so being in the Imperial Mixers,

00:38:12.820 especially with music and knowledge of music was your greatest asset really.

00:38:25.060 started acquiring them when they had knowledge that these are the turn-tobes that. When I started

00:38:35.860 I had one battle and everything else was a competition. So the battle I had was with DJ

00:38:48.020 with undercover is house and Pogo apparently destroyed undercover in his house and then

00:39:05.580 at the time and you can't have anyone coming into your territory.

00:39:11.100 You don't have outsiders coming into your territory and running a ruckus.

00:39:19.500 And, um, yeah.

00:39:24.460 We didn't focus so much on the equipment as such with meaning that, you know,

00:39:30.660 you was confident to just do what you could do.

00:39:37.660 The fader could be certainly once weren't slick, you know, they're not the fader faders

00:39:44.700 These faders moved with, you know, you probably need two hands and a lot of biceps to push

00:39:50.540 But it's what was known as the professional mixer and that's the mixer that was used on

00:39:58.220 You could see it on their 12 inch cover as well.

00:40:10.060 with Vasting felt and the techniques decks were about two miles apart from each other.

00:40:18.820 So the only thing you had was your records, your needles, your headphones and some decent

00:40:28.060 So that was the very first battle.

00:40:35.500 confrontation I had was really a competition battle.

00:40:39.700 - So I entered one with a DJ Ron,

00:40:47.380 bass DJ, but back in the day he was again,

00:40:51.780 people played everything and mixed everything.

00:40:57.940 Rebel MC, Mike West, run that competition.

00:41:04.020 You go to people's houses and have freestyles,

00:41:11.220 They were never documented.

00:41:15.580 I went to streets at his house.

00:41:21.060 making a lot of noise until our parents said,

00:41:25.860 But yeah, that was my earliest battles really.

00:41:34.580 there was always a battle where he was B-boying

00:41:39.660 So you didn't really document it.

00:41:44.980 you know, the undercover battle was recorded.

00:41:51.860 - You can't imagine them playing a DJ battle

00:41:55.060 Oh, it was hip hop.

00:42:00.540 I don't know, if it made news, it was exposed,

00:42:05.260 Yeah, and Pogo always used to walk around with a recorder.

00:42:12.100 whether it was a American's visiting

00:42:17.260 He used to always record stuff.

00:42:22.140 He's got a bunch of flyers that he pulls out and I'm like,

00:42:28.460 You brought that back, you know?

00:42:34.580 I wouldn't have a better collection

00:42:38.460 - Did you guys meet through the

00:42:42.860 - That's right.

00:42:45.900 Cosmic Jam was the type of person

00:42:50.580 He was that scented, you know, the world evolved around him and he was always into something.

00:43:01.180 So, I met Pogo through him and Supreme apparently knew him very well as well.

00:43:10.260 I was more down in Batsy near the park.

00:43:18.660 the cookie crew were from South London Junction area.

00:43:23.820 So he, you know, but it's not like you could hear

00:43:28.620 Let me go down there and there.

00:43:32.420 when we all met at Coven, you know,

00:43:34.740 Oh, we're getting this bus, yeah, I'm getting that bus.

00:43:37.580 Oh, really?

00:43:39.740 You live up there and so forth.

00:43:45.340 And, but Buggy Bunch was up there and Cookie Crew,

00:43:50.340 there was 10 female outfit gang of girls,

00:43:56.740 And then, yeah, Debbie, Susie Q, and Remedy

00:44:03.820 and it was Robbie, who was a member of the Imperial Mixers,

00:44:08.460 we kind of said, Yeah, you girls are quite good,

00:44:12.220 And then Nixon, you know, they entered some competition at the WAG Club, which Westwood

00:44:21.140 were going mad.

00:44:28.140 real calling artists.

00:44:31.780 And again, I saw the initiation of the original London Posse DJ Billy Business, ZPo, Rest in

00:44:42.180 And Rodney originally was known as Roddy Rock.

00:44:47.340 And had an American accent when I originally met him

00:44:52.500 they developed their own personalities

00:44:56.860 So yeah, it was an interesting time.

00:45:04.820 And the way I explain it is 'cause people say,

00:45:10.540 No, we just try to sound authentic.

00:45:15.120 You don't, for example, when being British

00:45:23.940 they're not from the Caribbean,

00:45:28.900 they took the accent, they adopted the culture

00:45:33.980 And that's the way I saw it, you know?

00:45:39.500 we've got our own identity, the maximum respect to drum and bass, jungle, grime, the whole

00:45:54.980 their thing, developing and pioneering their own art form and culture. Great, that's what

00:46:08.340 the craft of the music you are trying to emulate to master it, then you're ready to

00:46:21.660 still relevant to the scene. Because, you know, I learned the craft from the DJs I've

00:46:36.620 a carbon copy of them and then think that I'm very fortunate. It was crafted, it was

00:46:51.500 So when you met Pogo then, did you guys just instantly hit it off and just start practicing

00:47:00.540 That's right. Pogo initially put the name to all of us because we've been around each

00:47:07.220 Covenant was our common ground of meeting each other,

00:47:13.580 we was pretty much just adversaries to each other.

00:47:20.220 and we met at the same places and we, you know,

00:47:25.020 I'd have to find another break.

00:47:29.180 And literally, it was around, yeah,

00:47:39.660 interest in it at all.

00:47:42.580 Imperial mixer originally entered it earlier than that, I think it was 86 or 87.

00:47:55.220 that's what it was, it was a mixing competition.

00:48:00.500 So when Pogo entered it, he literally flipped it on its side.

00:48:07.380 I'm not really gonna enter.

00:48:09.260 And everyone was like, well, what if he doesn't win?

00:48:12.260 So then I saw Pogo after he won the London Heat

00:48:22.540 Very popular, German based DJ.

00:48:27.500 But Carl Cox was in it, like I just said.

00:48:32.380 That's right.

00:48:36.020 He wasn't called hype though.

00:48:38.860 And when I saw Poga with this jacket, regional jacket,

00:48:45.660 I said, you know what, I think I'll enter

00:48:49.180 So I, because I'm Mr. London, I had to go to Birmingham.

00:48:55.380 for the first time.

00:48:58.220 Again, people are getting all hyperbout,

00:49:01.380 It was happening back in the day.

00:49:03.980 It was not in you.

00:49:06.740 He's Omar's younger brother.

00:49:12.060 Yes, you know.

00:49:15.700 he was just hot on it.

00:49:20.460 People like Scratch Professor and Pogo,

00:49:26.540 I learned it and mastered it.

00:49:29.700 So you had to keep evolving, keep inventing,

00:49:35.260 me and Pogo was very good friends,

00:49:39.580 And then literally we did actually practice,

00:49:44.500 where we used to go around this guy,

00:49:48.740 We never had turntables.

00:49:52.300 So we used to go around everybody else who had turntables,

00:49:57.780 And we met, he had a partner caught by the name of DJ Delight.

00:50:03.860 And we used to go, he had his own house, his own flat.

00:50:11.700 And we used to go there and he had 1200s and records.

00:50:15.380 He used to be sleeping.

00:50:17.180 all night scratching.

00:50:19.700 Because we never knew it was going to be like this again.

00:50:24.780 And then yeah, pretty much it was around 97, 98 that Poga put a title to us,

00:50:36.660 And we called ourselves the Involcers, 87, 97, 97.

00:50:42.500 Yeah.

00:50:46.780 You know, there was only one crew I was originally in, and that was the Imperial

00:50:56.460 MC Melo's debt incorporated, determination endeavour equals total triumph and that was

00:51:08.340 Melo, Mone love, so forth, Rodney P was in London posse and yeah, Melo collectively called

00:51:21.380 forth. So we all, you know, I'm was from South London and so forth, but El Poga was

00:51:31.660 we was all one unit there definitely because they're strafing numbers, yeah.

00:51:41.220 Birmingham and DMC heard about myself because Pogo said, Yeah, he's one of a

00:51:51.320 I had initially made the name for myself mixing for Westwood on Capital Radio.

00:52:01.620 Yeah, so where should we start features? Because we were coming up and

00:52:10.500 to do mixes on on each station as well as other DJs. Obviously I started bonding

00:52:20.460 Mixers. The Imperial was doing mixes for him before and we used to advise him

00:52:30.180 regularly on on capital radio do mixes and he used to challenge me. He used to

00:52:38.660 And that's what really allowed me to evolve my style because with a record, there's only so much you can do with it.

00:52:48.740 And then you've got the challenges of radio where people can't see what you're doing.

00:52:57.460 So yeah, it pushed me to blend a lot more better and be more creative with the music and definitely drop some pioneer feats that people didn't understand at that time.

00:53:10.980 For example, my copycat technique, people use it

00:53:17.220 that people call all sorts of other names.

00:53:22.820 I've got the, definitely the tapes to show the lineage

00:53:30.260 and did it in the new music seminar battles

00:53:35.740 so it's showcase type battles.

00:53:41.980 - Yes.

00:53:46.700 - Roger Johnson won in 85.

00:53:50.380 - So that was the initial DMC live mixing event

00:53:59.900 of real to real and so forth.

00:54:05.380 which was like all the blending type stuff.

00:54:10.940 the creeping enough scratching,

00:54:17.280 doing it and doing it in clubs.

00:54:20.880 'cause they're older than me,

00:54:23.600 and bringing it into that environment,

00:54:29.640 But they opened those doors for us,

00:54:33.700 Roger, I rest in peace to do a big tribute to him while he was still here with us.

00:54:40.820 He recently passed this, right? Yeah.

00:54:43.540 Yeah, so was it cheese in '86 and did Chad win?

00:54:55.380 championships to the meaning that only Europeans and UK cats were in it. Yeah.

00:55:07.620 competition. And then they invited cheese because cheese was the new music seminar champion.

00:55:22.020 with record heads and so forth.

00:55:27.420 So he met Cheese and invited him into his championship

00:55:33.500 When Cheese brought a full entourage

00:55:40.140 then people started to question what is going on with DMC

00:55:47.020 - Yeah.

00:55:49.180 and doing a little bit scratching.

00:55:57.660 turntable drumming, scratches, spins, body tricks, all that stuff. And yeah, cheese was

00:56:14.420 It was a lot of the old school DJs and I think Wiscid,

00:56:20.100 I think Wiscid won it the most times.

00:56:26.420 he was like a new generation of scratch mix DJs.

00:56:34.500 came Jazzy Jeff who again flipped it again on it said,

00:56:42.900 Chad and then Cash and then me.

00:56:51.060 which sounds so archaic now.

00:56:58.780 how long it had been more of kind of a quote unquote hip hop

00:57:06.500 blend sort of thing.

00:57:13.140 but again, it was very hard to get into DMC

00:57:20.940 That was the initial way it was called,

00:57:24.260 That's what the AC stands for, disco Meets Club.

00:57:29.820 So because of credibility, I was able to get over

00:57:47.540 entered the following year, the door was kicked open. It was just everybody was now a street

00:58:01.940 amongst clubbers. That's why when I mentioned Carl Cox, he was a proper club DJ to my figure

00:58:18.340 about his history prior to then, but we were. So that was the thing about me winning it.

00:58:28.820 'cause I was a street DJ.

00:58:34.260 no one could recognize or identify with.

00:58:39.900 any of the others prior,

00:58:43.940 so I wasn't going to the same clubs as them anyway.

00:58:48.820 something that came into my head a few minutes ago is,

00:58:54.180 Everything was a battle, be it the b-boying, be it the d-jane.

00:59:02.060 did you get any nerves or was it kind of second nature

00:59:08.780 - Oh, without a doubt, always nervous.

00:59:14.140 The thing about performing is that you always wanna be

00:59:20.020 So I put on these personas and these attitudes,

00:59:28.060 (laughs)

00:59:31.060 I turn into a different type of creature.

00:59:37.620 And in all honesty, because of the way the DMC was,

00:59:45.260 I could adopt a cocky, confident attitude,

00:59:54.120 'Cause that was just to show how unnervous I really was.

01:00:00.200 So, you know, at the most outrageous things I did,

01:00:07.240 But that, if people could open up to that type of stuff,

01:00:15.040 just performing what I've crafted

01:00:20.940 There is a different dynamics when you perform live

01:00:27.140 They've got it now because whether they can

01:00:31.260 You're always nervous when you're going for the real thing.

01:00:37.180 when I record a tape, if the record skips,

01:00:43.500 Even today's technology where I know I could just

01:00:48.060 and then edited it later, you know, it gets up my goat when I make mistakes.

01:00:58.140 So I used to always record myself doing something and then go back over it to, because I've

01:01:06.540 Honestly, I have.

01:01:10.940 Okay.

01:01:12.940 Right.

01:01:14.940 Right.

01:01:24.940 But yeah, the DMC is...

01:01:34.940 You know, the raw and how about Hall? Come on now, I'm a street kid. When did I ever think I was going to be in there?

01:01:43.940 I'm never going to be in there that type of place.

01:01:49.620 I'm in the rural rabbit hole.

01:01:54.020 The lesson there is just, live the moment.

01:01:59.140 Because everything is historical. Everything we do.

01:02:06.180 Originally. Yeah. That's the first time I won it.

01:02:11.780 in 88 I came fifth I didn't place in the world and it's funny because I enter the world

01:02:26.860 obviously qualify for the final and all of a sudden I found out this DJ cash

01:02:37.300 was one of the DJs that I initially heard of when I was in the Imperial

01:02:48.320 schooled us on the Philly Starler DJing which was definitely the blueprints of

01:02:59.800 anacritcy was ridiculous and he was the first person I saw turn the turntable

01:03:09.600 of DMC were always in the traditional way it's built to me. With the turntable I'm on the right.

01:03:23.200 Imperials, Sonic Mixer didn't even have a crossfader and the things this guy did

01:03:34.560 in the future. Jazzy Jeff and DJ Cash Money. And then all of a sudden this record came

01:03:49.060 every scratch I thought I knew because I was aware of Chirpim because of Lightning Lee.

01:04:02.520 poker the table lighteningly. And from then on, I like I said, I just pretty much had

01:04:17.000 scratching to the funk, it was just music. I forgot about the guy scratching. It was just

01:04:32.000 with the whole drags was the first time I heard that and when he was doing the drags

01:04:41.760 on we heard jazz Jeff come out with girls ain't nothing but trouble but jazzy kind of played

01:04:52.800 Yeah.

01:04:59.680 But in fairness, he did this tape.

01:05:09.480 drummer's beat.

01:05:11.480 He's cutting Cheryl Lynn's to be real and transforming it.

01:05:19.580 with the dance of the drummers beat,

01:05:24.160 And Will Smith is the perfect orator,

01:05:32.200 You know, Will Smith understood his DJ

01:05:38.760 So if they didn't understand what the DJ was doing,

01:05:42.440 Oh, no, Jazzy, bring that down, bring that down.

01:05:52.680 that well and that's what was so dynamic about them, you know, Jazzy Jeff and Will Smith,

01:06:08.120 DJ, he was more daring than Jazzy to me. Cash money just pulled things out of the ether

01:06:22.840 do and delivered it. Cash money will pull something out and you're like, what? That doesn't even make

01:06:36.680 out, you know, whether it's accident or on purpose and always be teaching myself as I

01:06:52.960 would develop a routine and they will deliver that routine that way. 100% out of 10 times,

01:07:03.580 Percent today all the time deliver that way perfect

01:07:10.320 Time the whole craft was evolving as I was going along

01:07:18.980 The whole making markers on the record so you can queue without headphones. These are the things that I was part of the holy vault

01:07:28.280 We were learning and constantly

01:07:36.520 dropping. I, um, grandma's a Theodore Pioneer needle dropping as well, but I try

01:07:47.040 you lift the needle up, you drop it in on cue. I worked out it, depending on the,

01:07:58.640 the same cue points and it will sound rapid like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

01:08:07.820 it to out of the original art forms that I interpreted and tried to evolve.

01:08:23.600 Right, I've got some work to do. I've had a taste of this now when I want to come back

01:08:32.960 Yeah, I originally came back to say I want to prove that I am better than what I was actually

01:08:45.280 and he was obviously the champion. And it's documented in the DMC mix mag at the time

01:08:58.960 unexpected turntableism so i was doing all sorts of things need all dropping like i mentioned

01:09:14.000 and you know i i i think i but honestly know i outshone cash money at that performance and people

01:09:25.600 So for that rest of the time, I just had to craft a routine that I felt comfortable with

01:09:36.760 And I knew the hardest bit would be that UK title because I'm going against people that

01:09:42.480 that time, was it easier to have one routine that was for both? So by that I mean say if

01:09:56.760 the online, once you've done your sort of national thing or whatever or your heat, it

01:10:06.160 the mindset now of I need to keep something back so that what I'm doing in the final is

01:10:16.160 is my six minutes. Well yeah people we definitely all still got tapes of people and you know

01:10:29.440 a championship you got to tour the back of winning that championship so you literally

01:10:41.200 and they'll fly you over to then see what you've got

01:10:48.240 So they can study you then and there.

01:10:52.240 The champion used to torn the back or winning.

01:10:58.760 you know, you've only got a certain amount of techniques.

01:11:07.260 its full strength in.

01:11:12.840 and the amount of practicing I did,

01:11:19.600 that I could play today,

01:11:23.200 They just wouldn't, you know what I mean?

01:11:27.560 'cause I can't remember them.

01:11:31.040 but not blow my own trumpet,

01:11:36.440 So I would always have a,

01:11:42.640 there was, the format is a big massive beginning

01:11:50.400 get them on your side, that's the audience.

01:11:57.320 that aren't ready anyway.

01:12:00.760 how are you gonna compete with that?

01:12:03.920 and touched the equipment.

01:12:07.680 And then it's the techniques that people can look at.

01:12:18.240 or can't do, you know what I mean?

01:12:22.760 with your style and your environment.

01:12:28.160 Oh, you got to watch the Americans.

01:12:30.560 'cause they are the architects of it.

01:12:36.600 because I had a bit of cosmic jamming me.

01:12:42.920 you know, just be confident in what you are.

01:12:47.480 Some DJs, nowadays I tend to find DJs are confident

01:12:56.480 that they will do them five times anyway.

01:13:02.400 they're not gonna beat that unless they have a fault.

01:13:08.120 But for me, no, I had my routine from the UK Finals

01:13:14.680 In fact, people said my UK final routine

01:13:18.120 Why didn't you do the same routine?

01:13:21.320 when I've got so much stuff to give?

01:13:27.200 I'm showing my mixing skills and my capability

01:13:35.480 You know, you don't just play the same music all the time.

01:13:41.840 that everyone knows better

01:13:46.920 And you introduce something to them.

01:13:50.480 Everybody should get something out of that DJ performance

01:13:55.880 - So something I was thinking it'd be really good to do

01:14:03.040 So I can just ask a few questions.

01:14:11.240 - Normal mode, that's right.

01:14:13.520 And the, what is that mixer?

01:14:22.200 - Yeah.

01:14:25.320 just how animated you are.

01:14:28.640 - Right, 'cause yeah,

01:14:31.080 and I thought that's an element people

01:14:35.800 Like they'll gesture a little bit,

01:14:39.760 I mean, this big venue, I need to hype the crowd up.

01:14:47.360 I got a group called No Parking MCs.

01:14:54.480 - Yeah, so a comedian normally picks on somebody

01:15:02.040 And I'm in this big place and the focus has to be on me.

01:15:08.920 Now, this is the thing about makes me laugh about

01:15:15.020 It's pre-hip hop with R&B and I totally flip it

01:15:24.920 King of the Beats by Mantronix.

01:15:29.880 And the mix is near enough perfect to dance to.

01:15:37.200 keep that in the routine.

01:15:44.120 My defending title and I did it with a house shoot,

01:15:48.280 I'm manipulating the acid making it go up and down in scales, but not everybody gets the technical stuff

01:15:58.400 That intro of a scratch into a whole rhythmic routine

01:16:07.920 Yeah, cuz the complicated things. What was the level of body tricks elsewhere at this time because you're you're fast and kind of

01:16:21.120 Ironically, beat juggling is not back-cuing where people back you really quick.

01:16:33.560 I developed the copycat which is what you're hearing now.

01:16:38.080 - Nobody goes at that speed.

01:16:44.780 of left to right decks of getting to that speed.

01:16:51.660 Although some people have got very close to it

01:16:55.680 - So then I worked out, if I, to get quicker,

01:17:03.200 And I just worked out, what if I just stopped the record?

01:17:07.700 Then I'm moving, obviously smaller, smaller movements.

01:17:14.780 And then the reason why it's called the copycat

01:17:19.820 called the Watkins copycat.

01:17:24.900 and one head played back and two heads recorded.

01:17:30.540 And depending on the speed of the recordings,

01:17:38.680 - Yeah.

01:17:40.880 It just made sense to name it after an instrument.

01:17:46.680 Technology didn't emulate us to what we could do.

01:17:53.960 the timings between behind it.

01:17:59.760 and you can hear me now do it with my mouth.

01:18:06.200 - Yeah. - I could do it as a trick.

01:18:09.800 I could do it with my eyes closed.

01:18:13.000 I could do it in my hands, me, I'm back.

01:18:17.400 - I practiced it enough times

01:18:21.760 (laughing)

01:18:26.160 But the mix was all built in sections.

01:18:32.960 So you just keep going over something of that section

01:18:38.800 And again, every part of the copycat

01:18:42.200 even when I'm demonstrating it here,

01:18:48.040 The chair wasn't the relevant thing.

01:18:53.120 I'm trying to do in public enemy.

01:18:57.080 you hear me trying to make the dun dun duns,

01:19:02.880 So then I gave it up and I said, let me do it with a mixer on the side,

01:19:09.920 Again, people thought it was a routine.

01:19:15.000 which was something the chair statement was really to show that cash money did

01:19:23.120 And that's what that was.

01:19:28.400 and they focused on the chair.

01:19:31.780 that I was doing copycat with my cheat

01:19:35.880 - I guess that's the challenge in that era

01:19:39.400 with like cheese and chad before you,

01:19:43.160 weren't there like, was it like American footballs

01:19:50.040 Another question that I'd ask you about that is like,

01:19:56.120 You feel relieved that it's over,

01:20:00.960 I start hitting the mixer and I wasn't applauding it.

01:20:08.600 that I, that ever came into play

01:20:13.920 But then again, I didn't have that console.

01:20:18.080 I didn't have the chair,

01:20:24.040 It was just something I improvised on.

01:20:29.400 to show him look, you did use the chair,

01:20:34.280 And yeah, it was those things.

01:20:40.600 I learn on the fly because I've always had to

01:20:48.240 And yeah, I'm just that crazy enough

01:20:52.800 No routine. If I play that record again, and even when I do play again, it's never the same.

01:21:06.160 he'd really want to know because it's kind of like your DJ's, DJ's sort of stuff. And the one thing

01:21:16.880 bit more about your first new music seminar with Pogo and what that was like. Wow.

01:21:30.240 belly of a whole heap of talent. Was this before or after the DMC 89?

01:21:42.640 Oh wow. So DMC, like I said, had involvement in the new music seminar and we said to them,

01:21:51.460 in the music seminar.

01:21:54.600 We didn't go there to just take part.

01:21:58.520 And we was that confident.

01:22:05.040 It's like, you know, they have a Super Bowl

01:22:10.360 Nobody else is around that.

01:22:17.080 just right beside you in the venue, just chilling,

01:22:25.640 Yeah, we made a good impression for ourselves.

01:22:33.040 because basically I had a hard time.

01:22:39.720 and I tried to do the copycat thing

01:22:45.640 because they actually had a rain mixer,

01:22:50.600 It was a big old thing.

01:22:56.800 that were so you can change the crossfader operator,

01:23:02.600 And everybody had this disabled thing with it.

01:23:07.760 and that's why he won.

01:23:11.920 And literally they said,

01:23:16.400 and I was getting booed.

01:23:19.300 I wasn't from New York and they announced me

01:23:24.240 And the crowd is hardcore, hardcore, booing.

01:23:33.040 of L.O. Cool J's aren't bad.

01:23:38.240 Both turntables are needle dropping.

01:23:44.240 And I'm making it go, ah, ah, ah, no one could do this yet.

01:23:49.480 that could do this yet.

01:23:55.680 I'm looking at battlecat and I'm laughing at him

01:23:59.320 'Cause I said, I don't know when they could do this yet.

01:24:02.840 you know, I'm just laughing to go, yeah.

01:24:09.440 I'll send you a link of it. It's recorded.

01:24:13.480 And once they heard that,

01:24:18.720 if you do that for the rest of the competition, you'll win.

01:24:25.120 I've got this new avenue thing.

01:24:27.160 I've got this much better thing.

01:24:31.920 by the name of all DJ Allstar from Amsterdam.

01:24:37.240 which was a big tune then.

01:24:41.760 to a crowd that loves certain tunes,

01:24:45.960 So I'm dropping public enemy doing the copycat.

01:24:52.460 Yes, yeah, yes, yo.

01:24:55.800 And nobody is making any noise.

01:25:00.560 I'm making it look easy.

01:25:02.960 I'm getting a speed on this big equipment

01:25:07.760 And yet they went for plug tuning of a guy just back

01:25:14.640 Just going back to your timeline then,

01:25:19.440 that it's like 1999, 1989, hip-hop's been like global

01:25:31.040 years, four years, sort of Rundi MC, public enemy,

01:25:41.680 opportunities created on the back of being the DMC champion? Definitely. When we went back in

01:25:55.600 signed to Po for our records. He was the next big thing to roll out you know he would have been like

01:26:11.960 eyes up.

01:26:16.720 those great guys.

01:26:23.680 I think Chuck D gets a raw deal.

01:26:29.720 I love Chuck D's stuff.

01:26:35.720 Cool G-Wrap, another fantastic MC that I don't think gets enough props.

01:26:44.720 It was in the flavour campsite.

01:26:50.720 They're all part of the 45 King branch rest in peace DJ Mark, 45 King.

01:27:03.560 You know, there is no step children in my way I look at hip hop.

01:27:14.440 Next minute, it'll be a large professor, you know, or Pete Rock, my favourite producer,

01:27:24.000 That's how I am. I've got all those records. So why am I gonna single anything down if it's in my collection?

01:27:35.420 King Sun basically said to me you're and I've got it on video on my YouTube channel. He goes you're a dope DJ

01:27:47.580 I want you to be my DJ blah blah blah and yeah some US people blow fundamental you to to big you up as such but I genuinely but that guy was genuine to me and I genuinely believed it but.

01:28:17.380 you know, that's great, great for her. But yeah, I suppose I was a bit more scared. I wasn't as

01:28:30.980 when we was out there by Ultra Magnetic. They looked out for us. Mr. C definitely looked out for us,

01:28:44.180 We had a ball, you know, people, you know, when you're, when you're the, the, the kid in the, in the bigger town, you know,

01:28:56.380 All that type of stuff. So, yeah, we were the Brits in New York.

01:29:05.020 I joined DMC in

01:29:13.460 I simply came back because I was a bit, I was quite disappointed with the level of the UK DJs.

01:29:26.460 that seemed to be making a bill of noise was a guy by the name of first rate who was a Scratch Bervet as well.

01:29:39.540 that revitalized it and a lot of people came in and the new group of school people came up and Woody and so forth.

01:29:54.160 And I felt I should come back and make a difference.

01:30:05.240 And some of those that weren't happy with me winning it,

01:30:14.240 because they always, like I said, people take it out on the DJ and not the judges.

01:30:21.240 they didn't want to have anything else to say,

01:30:27.640 And it's funny, because the mix was put out quite quick from me winning.

01:30:34.440 There would have been no question about me winning because nobody confronted what I put out as a dista

01:30:45.200 I joined DMC in 97 because I actually said to Tony Prince look yeah, I can tour and I can um

01:30:56.000 exhibitions and stuff, but I

01:31:00.080 You know, I think I can make a difference here and I was that bold to say that to him and he was like, okay

01:31:11.280 We did that, you know, we they gave me challenges one thing about Tony Prince. He's a visionary

01:31:25.200 Was that through DMC then that's right the initial cutmaster with battle breaks was through DMC

01:31:33.360 Do the original first volume and then a and R for other world champions to do their volumes as well

01:31:47.240 Literally also what Tony Prince used to make me do is go and approve the video. So I'd go to

01:31:57.600 And watch these videos while they were editing them

01:32:04.320 to look over and approve.

01:32:11.760 and different camera angles, obviously, yeah,

01:32:16.160 And that's how I started learning video editing

01:32:20.740 And yeah, pretty much again,

01:32:25.860 I came out with a name calling it the SpeedMat.

01:32:30.420 but that would have been too monopolizing.

01:32:33.820 And yeah, things like that.

01:32:41.420 and were patient with me and gave me challenges.

01:32:46.820 And the funny thing about DMC,

01:32:56.020 things and did them very well. But it was a very true team to it. Everybody did it because

01:33:11.700 was that Tony Prince's niece and she furthered it on and took it into another light under

01:33:27.240 A lot of people always felt that DMC, you know, how has it managed and stuff and DMC

01:33:40.740 use technology, they would allow the DJ to use the technology.

01:34:09.220 But because of the franchise and it allowed all any country that had a true DJ following

01:34:27.780 each other's boundaries.

01:34:35.860 of not feeling weaker.

01:34:43.660 sort of from the judging side

01:34:49.700 You know, where they've kind of,

01:34:52.500 the different like say, I don't know,

01:34:57.020 was that like mind blowing.

01:35:03.900 at the 1990 DMC Championships.

01:35:09.980 Not nice.

01:35:12.800 - Yes, that's right.

01:35:16.720 He was very energetic, very energetic, you know,

01:35:25.800 That's how I perceived him.

01:35:32.280 and some bits were erratic and energetic,

01:35:37.360 but his personality was entwined with it.

01:35:43.920 and you just enjoy it for what it is.

01:35:51.680 with a copycat and then Cash Money.

01:35:57.360 He used the same kind of records

01:36:03.120 So he pushed it to the speed, to the levels of too fast.

01:36:13.760 and I was still gonna be the first world champion

01:36:18.680 if you watch my 1990 set, because of DJ David

01:36:26.560 I thought, Shh, craps with you,

01:36:30.680 So I flipped my cold sweat juggle on 45

01:36:41.360 If you listen to the rhythm, it's drum and bass

01:36:48.240 and it was, and you hear it.

01:36:53.320 you'd hear drum and bass.

01:36:57.480 before it was known as drumming bass.

01:37:02.440 Going back to your question about DJs, without a doubt,

01:37:12.440 He, again, took it to another level

01:37:20.920 and made them into masterpieces in front of your face.

01:37:27.320 and then he make (imitates babbling)

01:37:33.080 and the personality and stuff.

01:37:39.760 from a judge to go, which I've been a judge and go,

01:37:46.240 You know, I didn't expect that, I loved that.

01:37:51.600 We're following you, you know.

01:37:56.400 You know, that's painful judging.

01:38:03.440 I want to be reminded that was me 30 years ago and stuff like that.

01:38:10.760 That's the energy I look for in DJs, you know?

01:38:23.840 potential.

01:38:30.940 going to sing it from the same hingshi, I get bored. You know, I'm looking for individuals,

01:38:43.940 the winner, but they should be in the ward and the acknowledgement for those that push

01:38:49.740 It would be really good to just talk a bit about the hip-hop's 50-taw that you've done

01:38:59.980 that come about?

01:39:10.420 of hip hop, you know. He's very observant to it and yeah, hip hop had reached its age

01:39:24.420 celebrating its 50 if it was just rolling out performances you know so a performance of Grand

01:39:40.180 That's contributed to hip-hop. Great. But one of the missing things we always felt was the actual knowledge of it.

01:40:01.180 Like, okay, we give credit to a radio presenter like Tim Westwood, but we don't give credit

01:40:12.260 You know, we don't give credit to the record shops that we always to buy all the records

01:40:16.860 We accept that they've gone.

01:40:21.980 Obviously, there is a little bit of a resurgence in vinyl, but it's not what it used to be.

01:40:31.820 and I might have in mind of a record I would buy,

01:40:36.580 I was prepared to buy, you know what I mean?

01:40:41.740 my travel money to walk home

01:40:45.940 And if you caught the import van as it came,

01:40:51.020 because again, you had a relationship with record shops

01:40:57.540 because they have an idea what you'd want to buy.

01:41:01.780 that went in the record shop said,

01:41:04.500 Westwood played it.

01:41:09.500 or Shorty Blitz and MK, whoever was on the radio.

01:41:15.980 elements of different types of DJ, like the radio DJ now.

01:41:23.420 that he would have had back in my day

01:41:33.660 came out and put on nights, you know, where now you've got Spotify, if I want to chew,

01:41:45.020 might, regardless of it's old or new, there's no chart anymore to follow and keep in touch

01:41:57.680 give people their flowers while they are alive and not because they've passed. You know,

01:42:12.680 still around to tell those their stories. And yet we're getting stories of stories from

01:42:26.720 279. He wanted to go to certain places around those countries and as well as having myself

01:42:41.520 the local talent as well and give them an opportunity to share with us their trials and

01:43:00.280 between the generations of hip hop because the baton got passed only at certain levels

01:43:15.840 that follow hip hop now without that are genuinely into it but there's a

01:43:28.880 appearances at tones coffee shop and I drop my levels of turntableism in its

01:43:41.700 records that everyone knows in a fashion that was the birth of turntableism. You know, you

01:43:55.180 can find out samples, you can just examine them, there's who's sampled and you can find

01:44:06.460 stuff, you know? So you were saying earlier that you're just going through and editing

01:44:17.940 graffiti artists, all of the elements, right?

01:44:28.380 on the tour and Excel came down and we talked about the DMCs and the elements of the DJ

01:44:37.780 How do we communicate?

01:44:40.460 Why don't we do mixed dates anymore?

01:44:43.980 Do we have to worry about AI?

01:44:46.820 The discussions like we're having now,

01:44:50.580 I tried my best as a host.

01:44:55.740 I'm not Michael Bargenson.

01:44:59.500 you've got to dictate the pace

01:45:03.900 You interview doesn't go on a while.

01:45:06.600 - A wild story.

01:45:08.440 You know that, you probably did it with me now.

01:45:12.280 So that was respect the DJ.

01:45:14.940 And that was, again, getting the stories of the people

01:45:21.960 that made it to the forefronts that we always look at first

01:45:28.080 So we have producers, we have radio people on there,

01:45:38.520 All the elements discussing from a perspective.

01:45:46.360 by Funky DL.

01:45:53.560 their inspired by and why they got into MC and it's it's quite clear that lots of MCs

01:46:10.740 of whatever topics they they choose to talk about and one thing that is definitely obvious

01:46:25.600 responsibility you've got in it, you know, and with power there is responsibility and

01:46:37.880 I want to even though I'm, I can feel entitled to, but I've got to be aware of the crowd,

01:46:54.640 to make them move, make them enjoy their experience, enjoy the party. I'm not one of those egotistical

01:47:07.600 do that, but you know, I always try and explain to people when I'm playing music and someone

01:47:18.000 know, it's like having a meal. You don't just go from the start straight to the dessert.

01:47:26.240 don't, or you don't start with the dessert and work your way backwards. So I try and

01:47:36.800 when you DJ as you know, we're five records ahead of what's being played. You know, you've

01:47:46.900 set, whether you're doing the middle part or where you're doing the ending when you've

01:47:53.360 You structure your sets and MCs structure their verses and whether it's the hook line

01:48:03.160 I think we're in trouble at the moment, I think MCs now, because people's attention

01:48:11.120 now are, I have to have a hook. They're very short, you know, two minutes of record.

01:48:21.840 AI in sampling and music in a couple of weeks, in a couple of, I think we're recording next

01:48:31.920 than I do. I'll tell you that. So, someone's been doing some research on it for me and,

01:48:45.040 I've only read the headline and taken some assumptions but basically labels one artist to be releasing

01:49:01.120 of material out a year.

01:49:05.160 - Well even now ones have changed now.

01:49:08.360 They're like six tracks.

01:49:10.120 - Yeah.

01:49:11.800 - It's crazy.

01:49:14.000 - No problem mate, it's been a bit.

01:49:17.440 when the talks are done for hip-hop is 50,

01:49:23.280 if they follow you on Instagram?

01:49:26.440 but there is a dedicated website called hiphop@50.co.uk.

01:49:35.800 The 10th of August is the plan to have a party in London.

01:49:46.080 We're going to premiere parts of the screen in the Ritzy in Brixton.

01:49:56.400 in-depth discussions.

01:50:00.480 We did have it in some other areas, but we didn't have it in London.

01:50:07.520 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:10.080 If I've if I've got your link as well.

01:50:14.360 Any links that you have.

01:50:15.920 Popping in the show notes and what's your handle on Instagram?

01:50:23.440 Simple as that.

01:50:26.320 I'll send you them.

01:50:30.400 But I tell you what, there's no misters in front of my name.

01:50:36.640 and he spells his name differently.

01:50:40.840 And yeah, take care of yourself.

01:50:44.440 I look forward to what everybody else you've got to share with me right as well.

01:50:53.960 If you've got any questions or feedback or any suggestions for guests,

01:51:07.960 Take care and we'll speak to you soon.

01:51:11.400 Oh, that was nice.