The principal focus of this podcast episode is the exploration of Lillian Pagano's journey as a children's book author, specifically highlighting her recently published work, "Bao Bao the Baby Panda."

Lillian shares her profound passion for inspiring children, rooted in her experiences as a retired teacher, and recounts the serendipitous moments that led her to write this enchanting tale.

Throughout our discussion, we delve into the intricacies of her creative process, the significance of her connections with young readers, and the valuable lessons embedded within her narrative.

Furthermore, Lillian reflects on the challenges and triumphs of the publishing process, emphasizing the importance of perseverance and self-belief in the pursuit of one's dreams.

This episode serves as a testament to the transformative power of storytelling and the enduring bond between authors and their young audiences. In this enlightening episode, Lillian Pagano takes us on a journey through her transition from an accomplished educator to a children's book author with her debut work, *Bao Bao the Baby Panda*.

Lillian discusses her deep-seated passion for inspiring children, a sentiment that has driven her through decades of teaching. She shares a poignant anecdote about a principal's newfound enthusiasm for teaching, sparked during one of Lillian's school presentations, illustrating the profound impact that storytelling can have on both educators and students.

The origin of *Bao Bao the Baby Panda* is rooted in Lillian's experiences while tutoring young children in China, where she developed meaningful relationships with her students and their families.

This connection served as the foundation for her narrative, which aims to bridge cultural gaps and celebrate the joyous adventures of childhood. Lillian emphasizes the significance of relatable characters and engaging plots that can ignite a child's imagination, fostering a lifelong love for reading and learning.

Throughout the episode, Lillian also addresses the intricacies of the publishing journey, spotlighting her partnership with Miriam Laundry Publishing.

She discusses the challenges and triumphs encountered in bringing her story to fruition, underscoring the importance of community support and accountability in the writing process.

As she prepares for her second book, Lillian reflects on the invaluable lessons learned and offers guidance to aspiring authors, encouraging them to pursue their creative aspirations and share their unique stories with the world.

Takeaways:

• Lillian Pagano, a retired teacher, discovered her passion for children's literature after retiring and engaging with children again.
• The inspiration for her book, 'Bow Bow the Baby Panda', emerged from her experiences as a teacher and her interactions with students.
• Lillian emphasizes the importance of connection with children and families, showcasing how literature can inspire and motivate young minds.
• The podcast discusses the challenges of transitioning from teaching to writing, highlighting the importance of believing in one's ideas and creativity.
• The author recounts the significance of her illustrating partner and how collaboration enhanced the visual storytelling of her book.
• Lillian expresses her commitment to promoting literature in schools, underscoring the value of reading and storytelling in developing children's emotional understanding.

Links:

• https://www.lillianspagano.com
• Amazon Book
• https://www.instagram.com/paganolillian/
• Facebook

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• vip Kids
• Amazon
• Ingram Sparks
• Miriam Laundry Publishing
• Barnes and Noble
• Target

Foreign My name is Lillian Pagano and the name of my book is Bow Bow the Baby Panda.

Thanks, Lillian, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors podcast.

Lillian, as mentioned, she's has written a children's book and today we're going to focus on Bow Bow the Baby Panda.

And I look forward to a conversation before we jump into the details of your book.

Lillian, can you tell us what being a children's book author means to you?

It has been absolutely wonderful.

Things have come out of being a children's author that I never thought would as a retired teacher, I absolutely love children, love inspiring them, I love learning about them and growing with them through the course of a year.

And I recently went into a school and in the middle of my presentation, this was a third grade class, a principal came in and she had her laptop and she sat in the back during the presentation.

And I'm thinking, I guess this is going to be an observation for the teacher who happened to be my daughter.

I said, maybe she's going to do an observation now.

It's a good time.

When I finished my presentation, she came up to me and, and she said, you have inspired me.

I now am looking forward to retirement because what you did in terms of motivating the children and telling your inspiration and story, I don't want to retire and be home quilting.

I want to still be working with children and proactive.

So the idea of still connecting with children and families is in a different way has meant really everything to me.

Good for you.

So let's talk a bit about your inspiration and the origin story behind your book.

What gave you the inspiration, even as a child?

I'll tell you the story a little bit later on if it comes up.

I always enjoyed from the time I was about 10 or 11, I always enjoyed reading.

And books were important.

And I had a dream of one day becoming a children's authority.

Life gets in the way.

I was busy working for a long time, raised four children, a set of triplets, and life just got very crazy.

So I didn't have to deal with a lot of the technology and everything that many of my colleagues were dealing with.

But I couldn't travel, I couldn't get out.

What was the point?

I thought I would do traveling and have some new adventures.

So what am I going to do with myself?

I was on the computer at some point and something came across my feed in China, a platform called vip Kids needed teachers from America to tutor children in Chinese that wanted to perfect their English.

I had to do a little demonstration lesson.

The technology was challenging, but I did it.

And I began tutoring.

And I met this lovely family, two little girls named Sylvia and Eva.

I tutored both of them, and they really brought me into their family.

They had a little dog named Luna.

And at one point, they were celebrating Luna's birthday, and they're showing me the cake and holding their puppy.

And Sylvia play the cello.

And oftentimes there'd be a couple extra minutes at the end of class if we finished the slides early.

And she'd play for me.

And Eva would.

Totally different child.

She would be bouncing around making faces in the camera.

And I met the mother, I met the grandmother, and I really just connected with them.

They were really the inspiration of the story.

I wanted a way.

The idea just came up several years later, and I wanted an idea to connect with children in a. I love your story.

And just so you know, I do have your book.

I have it as an ebook.

And the colors turned out just phenomenal on the iPad.

It's really nice.

Yes.

I absolutely love.

That was my wonderful illustrator.

She did such a great job.

And what's interesting, because the COVID of the book actually was more bluish at the beginning, the sky color.

I really love the way the COVID came.

Yeah.

Because it reminds me.

And we'll get more into this, but I think pandas primarily eat bamboo.

That has the bamboo kind of look to it.

And it.

Yes.

And it carries over to the back of the book, which I loved at the illustrator.

Really nice.

And that inspired you to write the story.

Were you still teaching Sylvia lessons when you started to get this idea to write it into a children's book?

No, actually, the idea what had happened was China had decided to curtail American teachers being able to teach English.

Our lessons abruptly ended, and I forgot the most important part here.

The mother said to me, well, I'm so sad that we're not going to be able to have lessons.

And I know that you've heard not so nice things about our country, but if you ever get a chance to visit China, we would love to show you all the wonderful places.

And that really touched me, as I think we're more alike than we are different.

Yes.

Everybody loves their children and wants to do what's right by them.

And it really touched my heart when she said, I have to tell you.

Terrific.

So then you wrote the story over the next couple of years.

So when did you start actually Deciding, you said the lessons came to an abrupt end.

So when did you get inspired to say, geez, you know what?

This is going to make a good children's book?

You know what's interesting?

I. I can't say it happened right away because we were shut down, we were busy.

Life was very different.

With children, you need a touch, you need a hook.

Absolutely.

I thought about a pain to bear because I'm not sure whether you are aware of this.

Some people are that when China gifts a panda to a country, it's a sign of peace and friendship.

So I thought, how great would it be to come up with a character, come up with Bao Bao, and use the family.

So although the inspiration is based on something that really happened, the story of Bao Bao is not.

That is completely fictional.

And like so many of us, we come up with an idea.

I have so many journals that I've even started at various times in my life, picked up another one and.

But I. I came across a feed publishing company, like an assisted publishing company, that would walk you through the process.

I took one of the courses.

It was called cbm.

It talked about just a lot of the guidelines.

Writing a children's book is very different than writing a book for adults.

And then I kind of took the next step and joined this hybrid assisted publishing company.

Then from there, they really keep you accountable for each target deadline that you have.

And then it went very quickly.

We'll definitely jump into that because I want to cover a couple other things before we talk about the publishing end of it.

And as you develop this whole story, once you have a children's book, you are starting a business because now you have a product that you have to sell, market, and distribute.

So did you think about own?

How do I put together a children's book business plan?

And what did that look like?

Do you have a formal business plan for your book?

I have to tell you, I felt like the journey would unfold because I am a teacher and I have no problem going in front of children, knocking on some doors at libraries and certainly schools.

I have a lot of connections with many of my students who I taught for over 33 years.

So many of my students, my kindergarten students, are now 40 years old.

It's great.

I think I just.

I just felt confident that it would unfold the way it was supposed to.

And I had planned to go into schools and libraries.

So I started working on a Google Slide presentation and looking on Amazon for some catchy little panda stickers and little pla.

You know, so that's the direction that I thought I would go.

Okay.

With the book.

And you know what's interesting too, because a lot of my guests are either retired teachers or they are early development educators or they're currently teachers.

All of us, of course, get busy in life.

And so a lot of times, like, I talked to a retired teacher out of New York and she told me that she wrote her story while she was teaching, her original story, but then she stuck it in a drawer for 30 years waiting to retire.

And then when she retired, it came out of the drawer and came to life.

And then I just talked to another teacher and she was telling me that she developed a curriculum to support her book.

And she said she's finding more and more children's book authors because of their teaching background are creating these curriculums because when they take it to the school, the schools are looking for more than just the book.

They're looking for a curriculum behind that.

Is that part of your plan or have you done that?

I think naturally I've done that because I have brought the book into really little ones, like from 18 months to two and a half, three.

So I have a separate presentation for that.

Certain slides that I will show, I added in a song or two that'll catch the little one's attention.

Two, I've done as as old as fifth graders where we add the Q and A. I talk about inspiration.

I talk about never giving up on your dreams.

So I would say it naturally has happened.

Have I written a curriculum?

No.

But on my website, I like to start a newsletter.

That's something that I do.

I'm starting to think about.

I have some coloring resources and word search pages that kind of support the book, but I don't have hard copy.

It just comes out when I'm present.

I noticed I'm on your book formats I was looking at on Amazon.

You, of course have a soft cover, a hardcover, and of course the ebook I purchased through Amazon.

And like I said, the colors are very vibrant.

Have you also used Ingram Sparks for all other online retailers?

I have.

And I haven't had to use ingramsparks much.

But I am doing.

It's my first book event at a Barnes and Noble.

And so they will be purchasing my books through Ingram Sparks.

The hard cut cover copies.

Okay.

I have used primarily Amazon KDP print on demand.

And so with your hardcover, I know that Amazon, they will not print a hardcover unless it's a minimum of 72 pages.

So who's printing your hardcover for you?

So that is ingramsparks.

Okay.

And with the publishing company that I used, they helped me set up an account both through Amazon, KDP and ingramsparks.

Terrific, terrific.

As you said, used for bookstores and libraries will go to ingramsparks for the hardcover.

You bet.

And most of us have a unique way of approaching publishing.

And I talk to people about independent publishing, which is where you take on the entire process.

And then there's the hybrid self publishing and then there's the traditional publishing where the, where you find a publisher.

Usually you have to find a literary agent and then they shop your book around most people that I've talked to.

That takes up a lot of time and a lot of rejection and takes years to get your book into the marketplace.

So I think you're using Miriam Laundrie Publishing for years.

Yes, I am.

Okay, so tell us about that.

Tell us about that experience.

It was truly a positive experience.

So you do get a lot of support.

I think it really helps you understand what's one thing to have an idea and want it to come into picture book.

There's many things that you don't think about.

You don't think about how you're going to secure Illustrator.

You don't think about the marketing and social media and website.

One thing that Miriam Publishing company does is they do have monthly calls where you're actually working with a group of other authors that are on the same timeline as you.

I think when you're connected with others, other like minded people, it certainly motivates you.

And I had an author code.

If I had questions, if I had doubts, it was someone that you could.

Really help to move the process along.

Yes.

Fantastic.

When you went through this whole publishing process, what would you say your biggest challenge or frustration was?

I think the biggest challenge is really just believing in yourself.

You can have an idea, but it was just really, is this a valid idea?

I remember with one of my daughters when I pushed the button to send, you know, to send my first draft of my manuscript, my heart was pounded because that's where you get the story.

Is this something that will be able to spark interest?

And so I think really that was the biggest challenge.

Just doing it, just putting it, putting yourself out there because it's your story and you want it to be good, but it might not be.

Absolutely.

And I know we'll talk a bit more about this later, but I'm Curious.

I noticed that you're developing a second book.

Ah, yes.

Would you use Miriam Laundrie again to publish your second book?

I am going to.

Okay.

At least one more time.

I. I feel like absolutely still need that support.

I've learned so much, approached it a little bit differently.

It's like the first time you do something, sometimes you don't enjoy the process because you don't know what to expect.

And there was just something also that had.

I was actually going to wait a while before publishing the sequel to this book, but there was a personal story that happened.

It made me want to get this book.

Good for you.

The nice thing about, like you said, the first time, you have to acquire all the knowledge and the processes and all that.

So are you going to.

By using Miriam again, are you going to try and be more conscious about what it takes to maybe then publish on your own, like your third book, your fourth book?

Is that part of the.

Yes.

I do think.

I can't say definitively that I won't need some assistance.

But it's interesting because I do have four children and they're all adults.

And one of my daughters is into marketing.

I know when I've struggled with certain things, she'll say, I could have done this or that or whatever.

They're much more savvy with.

It's the technology.

I think that if you've interviewed people that are retired, that that feels challenging.

Yes.

Writing part, not even the editing part.

You need to get an editor for sure.

Everybody comes at it a little differently, too.

And interviewed over a hundred children's book authors.

And everybody has their own nuances to how they approach it.

And everyone has their own strengths, too.

And some people told me they liked using Miriam Laundrie because they would rather focus on the marketing and sales end of it.

And they feel that's where their strengths are.

If you have those strong skills and you can generate enough revenue to pay for the services, there's no issues in doing that for sure.

If that's what you decide your.

Your strengths are.

It's really been very much a seamless process going through Myriam Publishing Company.

And you talked about your illustrator.

Now, I've talked to other Miriam Laundrie authors, and from what I gather, they generally give you a couple of leads on illustrators and then you do your homework to find out who's a best match for you.

Is that.

Was that the process?

Yeah.

So in.

In the group that I was in my publishing mastermind group, there were definitely people that worked, went with Some people, especially if they taught they might have an artist friend and they actually used that person.

They sought their illustrator on their own.

Miriam does put you in touch with some agencies that pretty much offer their services.

There's pretty much a book and you can go through online and you can get a style of what you want.

I remember spending of time, a lot, lot of time in the children's library section and just looking had an idea of the type of illustrator I was looking for.

And I went with someone that's in Scotland.

She's also going to be illustrating the second book as well.

Terrific.

And how did you find her?

So I did find her through one of the suggestions that Marine Publishing company was Advocate Art Agency.

You know what our illustrator is in the uk.

That's just the way it worked.

I was looking for a more local illustrator, but at the end of the day, I just couldn't find what I was looking for.

It's amazing.

I've talked to so many children's book authors that have illustrators in Italy, in the uk, in South America, it's.

It's the Philippines.

It's just amazing.

And it's great because just like we're doing here today, connecting, I do connect with her a few times and I think I learned from the first process how important it is to communicate early on.

So I'm really being more proactive about doing that, scheduling a few zoom calls.

That is a great point, Lillian, because that's where I really loved how lucky we got with finding our illustrator.

Because we had the idea behind our first book, which is called the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.

And it was all inspired by my oldest granddaughter and her, her first name is Kira with a K. And so Caboose, our main character is spelled with a K. So Caboose with a K. And what's interesting about that is that we had visualize what our character would look like.

And from that we were in San Francisco, my wife and I, and we went into one of those build a bear places and we were able to assemble.

We said, we're looking for this type of bear.

We said, it's a cross between a black bear and a grizzly bear.

And it has to be this color.

And then we said because of the name Caboose, we wanted the outfit to be like in train engineering outfit.

And we put that together and we brought the.

The stuffy back or the plushie.

And my granddaughter said Caboose.

She knew right away.

So we had all visualized that what it would look like, we sent a picture to our illustrator and he came back and it was incredible.

And it all started from there.

Yeah, it is.

So I went back and forth with, of course, Sylvia and Eva.

I did have their pictures.

I had a picture of their dog and different things.

So I sent that over to Sally Garland, my illustrator.

But I really didn't have an idea about what Bow Bow would look like.

I have a very dear friend of mine.

She just is an animal lover, a panda lover.

And she watches the panda cam and at San Diego Zoo all the time.

And we came back a couple of times when Sally came with what Bow Bow would look like and I shared it with her.

I'm like, okay, Lisa, what do you think?

And she would say, no, not cute enough, not fluffy enough.

And so finally we came up with.

And honestly, I don't know about you, your book is.

The central character is the bear.

But with me, Sylvia is really a main character.

But when I go into schools, of course, the children gravitate toward the panda.

I do have a panda puppet that I bring with when I do the real young ones.

Yes.

I also have.

When you said with the Build a Bear, I have a panda plushie that looks exactly like that.

And I test the kids a little bit with the marketing.

I tell them that I knew that I was going to go into schools.

I wanted Bao Bao to come with me on visits.

And I show them the black and white copy that I sent this budsy.

And they make expensive plushies.

I don't know if they're as expensive or more than Build A Bear.

But anyway, so it's just the kids.

Get a kid and it is cute and I know that the audience can't see behind you, but you have Bow Bow baby panda behind you.

And it's so cute and like you said, very fluffy.

How you would envision a healthy, robust.

Baby newborn and then come.

And what's funny you say about Build a Bear, because I've.

I've thought, I wonder if I could get Bow Bow into a Build a bear that they could build.

Build a Bao Baa might be another way to market.

You know what's interesting?

I know you mentioned it earlier about stickers through Amazon and stuff like that.

I recently interviewed a children's book author, b. Brittany Pettish, episode 67.

And she writes all these nature books about deers.

So I said to her, I noticed you have a lot of plushies.

And she said, yeah.

And she said, I actually went and I found them on Amazon.

I don't sell them, but I direct people.

When they come to my website, if they want plushie of the deer character that I've developed, then they can just go there.

And I thought that was quite interesting.

Yeah, I have it right on my desk here.

When I go into libraries, sometimes I do these little gift bags.

And in the gift bag there's a sticker and there's a. I call it a pocket panda.

Nice.

It's been so big.

A few inches.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

And the children love that.

So, Amazon, do you have a draw.

For that or what do you do?

Yeah.

So I went to my first library event, and some libraries, since they're public libraries, they don't really allow you to sell in the library.

One of the children's librarians said to me, but you can go outside and if you have them with you, you can sell them.

Then the second time I had gone to a library, I asked her about it and she said that I could sell.

But then the third go round, my third, third visit to a library, I said.

I said, when children listen to a storytime opportunity in a library, they bring their.

Yes.

So I put the little gift bags together.

I did my presentation.

I had them all remade.

Really.

I would say there were eight to 12 kids, and I probably sold eight to 12 gift bags.

When they see the sticker and they see the little pocket panda, and I do a little autograph, Another Amazon, a little autographed copy sticker and a paw print.

I stamp inside the book because I.

Noticed in your book you had little paw prints to number the your pages on your book.

I thought that was a very unique technique.

Great book design.

Yeah, that was fantastic.

This is the bear that we had developed in San Francisco.

And then what happened was one of the book retailers that supports our book said, can you make more of those?

To make it.

That size gets expensive.

But we did actually develop this one.

Adorable.

Now, what would you say?

Is that a foot?

Oh, it's actually a foot.

A foot.

It looks like to be about a foot.

Where did you get those done, Rick?

It's funny you talk about China.

I was talking to a children's book author out of Oklahoma, Charlotte Glaze episode 23.

And we were talking about printing and all that.

And she got all of her hard copy books done through a company called madeinchina.com and she said, they'll do anything for you.

So I went to the website, I looked up a couple of companies that made plushies, and I sent them the same thing I did with, with the illustrator.

I took the original Caboose and I disassembled all the clothing in that, laid it out and sent pictures.

And they sent me a sample all the way from China.

It cost me $85American, but they sent the sample and then I could have a look at it.

We made a couple of changes, and then we ended up ordering.

Ordering 400 units.

How much are they a piece?

They ended up being.

You gotta add the freight in.

So you're probably looking at about $7.

50.

The stores everybody want has to make margin.

Right.

So that's the only thing is that if we sell them directly at book fairs and at markets, then we're able to make a good margin.

If we sell them to.

Which we do, we sell them to a hotel chain that we sell in the Rocky Mountains, we sell to a hotel chain, and they take our book and our plushie.

And that's been working out very well for us.

And then we have another store that supports us and does the same thing.

But they have to sell them now, this is Canadian, so they have to sell them for around $40 to make their margin, because that's just the way it works out.

So, yeah, it's it.

But it gives us that extra product to sell.

And people are always looking for a little extra, like you're doing with your little panda in your package.

That's really neat.

Yeah.

And then if there are neighbors, family, friends, and they buy a book off of Amazon, then I always.

I'll tell them, anytime you want to come, I'll autograph it personally.

And I'll.

If I have the bags around, I'll set them up with a little bag as well.

Because it's really just.

At this point, it's certainly my first book.

I want to kind of get the word out and just generate interest.

And absolutely the one thing I wanted to pick up on, because you talked about your second book, but I'm interested with your illustrator.

You said you would do things a little differently with the second book that you didn't do with the first book.

So talk to us about that relationship with your illustrator the first time around, now that we know you're going to use the same illustrator for your second book.

Tell us that journey of what it looked like in the beginning and how you've been able to pivot to be more involved.

So, again, the first book, you really don't know.

And I knew that a lot of people were using illustrators that were outside the country, and it was a relatively smooth process.

But there was a point where I think I was Evolving as well.

I had thought of an idea of something that I wanted to do with having perhaps a butterfly or a cardinal in the background somewhere, which was easy enough to do because they were at the zoo and they were.

And I thought that would be nice.

Right before I began the process seriously.

My mother had passed, so I just wanted to do a little something.

I wasn't really clear in explaining that to her.

She really didn't get back to me.

And what she did I ended up being very happy with.

She said, I went with the butterfly.

And she said the blue butterfly, I believe it's called the peacock butterfly.

That's native to China.

And when Bao Bao gets to the San Diego Zoo, I put the monarch butterfly in, of course, which is native to our area in the U.S. yes.

So I loved what she did.

I'm very happy.

But it was just a miscommunication.

It kind of stayed in my head.

But I said.

And it was really too late to make any changes at that point.

I did discuss with my author coach and she said, you know, I would go with the same illustrator.

You were happy with the illustrations.

My illustrator happens to be a bit private.

I didn't even at first put her picture in the book because when I reached out to her, she didn't reach back out.

So this time I felt like first I asked the interest.

I wanted to see if she was interested if I did one.

And then I asked in the contract, which was nice because Miriam Publishing helps you include certain things that you might not think of in the contract.

And I said, you know what?

I think we can overcome this little obstacle with a few more face to face contact meetings.

It's worked out very well.

And the butterfly is a tribute to your mother.

I.

That's what I wanted it to be.

Yes.

Okay.

So even though it wasn't a cardinal butterfly, my mother always liked sparkly things.

And she had many shirts that had sparkly butterflies and a little hat.

Yes.

Nice.

It's interesting how butterflies tend to resonate with a lot of people.

They do, they do.

When you did your website development and I looked at your website, it's great.

I love the big panda.

The blow up panda you have.

That is phenomenal.

I'll tell you the story of that.

But yeah.

Yes, please do.

And then we'll come back to your website.

I was very fortunate to have so much support in the town that I taught in for so many years.

One of the parents student that I had, she now has three beautiful sons.

And when she found out through Facebook of Course that I was writing this book.

She said you have to have your launch party in Ridgefield.

And she's also a councilwoman.

So she provided the space for me to have a launch party.

And we had a ball.

We had.

I involved my children, we had tattoo stations, we had panda games, we had bubbles, we had all kinds of great fun things.

I'm in a book club.

And so my book club friends were very supportive and attended my book launch.

And one of the ladies said, if you get a big panda costume, I'll be Mama Ming the mother panda at the event.

So that's what we did.

Wow, that's fantastic.

You went to a rental co costume rental place.

Went right through.

I bought it at a Target.

I thought I was going to use it so much that it would make sense to actually get it.

And I've brought it to a library event as well.

So I've used it twice.

Yeah, because it must be over 6ft tall.

Oh yeah.

It's.

It's as big as who wears it because it's a blow up.

Okay, you blow it up.

And my one friend that was wearing it is probably about 557-58-59.

Pretty tall.

She's pretty tall.

It was a lot of fun.

And the kids of course love that music playing and that's terrific.

I wanted to bring you back to your website.

So did you develop your website in advance of launching your book or did you launch it together or did you launch it after the publication of your book?

Tell us about your website and your website development.

The great part about Miriam is you have this group of people, as I said, once a month.

So at some point in the process, because it was 10 or 11 month process with the meetings and everything.

So what we did was they started talking about, maybe on our fifth meeting, started talking about the idea of a website.

And many people didn't know anything about a website.

That's when I started to think about it.

I had a little bit of a budget issue.

I didn't.

I know there's a big range, but I reached out on Facebook to see if anybody knew of anybody.

Someone.

He's maybe a year younger than I am.

But I went to high school with him.

A couple people were referring him.

So I spoke with him and it was the first Webster site that he ever did for a children's book author.

He's done some books, some businesses.

You bet.

Yeah.

So it was a little challenging because I really didn't know exactly what I wanted and he wasn't sure.

So we spoke A lot.

He was very helpful.

And I'm thinking of tweaking it a little bit because a website certainly should kind of be ever changing.

Absolutely.

And that's great advice, Lillian.

And that's what I love sharing with our audience, is to understand that's the beautiful thing about a website.

You should be paying attention to it every once in a while and updating it and giving people a reason to go back.

Because if you don't change your website and they visit it the first time and.

And then they go back to see it a second time and it's exactly the same.

It certainly.

Yeah.

It doesn't bring anybody back to it again.

You.

Do you want them to spend a little bit more time on your website?

Even if it's just my daughter and I've been speaking to someone about just making it a little bit more child friendly as well.

Book characters, maybe a little bit more animation is what I'd like to do now with the second book as well.

Good for you.

Good for you.

When you launch, did you have your website up and running before your book launch?

I did.

It was ongoing, but of course after the launch party I added pictures and did a few things.

Now I have an announcement about the book, but I did have it up and running.

I would say maybe just a few weeks before the book launch.

And I love your idea about a newsletter because that's one thing you could do to entice people to come back to your website is with your newsletter, then you've got something coming at least maybe once a month or whatever that would entice people to come back.

Thinking even doing it quarterly, like for a year.

My book has a lot to do with growing and changing and children facing obstacles.

So it falls under social, emotional, learning, and I think little tips about how to help children through things.

Do you see yourself teasing people with your next book in terms of your book journey to bringing their next book to life through your website?

Definitely.

What kind of techniques are.

Do you think you would use?

I'm not quite sure.

I'm really just looking at a lot of websites.

I'm speaking to people now, but I definitely want to do some teasing.

You know what happens to Bao Bao in America?

You know, will Bow Bao meet Sylvia in a again.

Because at the end it leaves.

It ended maybe a little bit of a tease.

We've gotten away from letter writing.

At the end of the story, Sylvia takes a letter that she's written and she sends it off with someone at the Beijing Zoo.

Sends it off so that it'll be opened in San Diego.

I have to tell you before I forget, my wife and I, on our 25th wedding anniversary went to San Diego and we went to the zoo.

And of course they had the pandas there.

It's kind of cool to see how your story unveiled itself and ended up in the San Diego Zoo with the panda bear.

I haven't been there yet, but my nephew actually lives in California, and I'm planning a summer trip, perhaps July, early August, to get to the San Diego Zoo.

Good few.

You'll enjoy it.

It's a great zoo.

So tell us about the use of your Facebook and Instagram and I know, done a little YouTube.

Talk to us about how you're using that to promote your book and your book sales.

Many people don't realize, I have to say I wasn't overly comfortable with posting on social media.

I think many people in my age category, we, we don't do it as much as the younger people videoing ourselves and telling stories.

But I've tried to get out of my, you know, comfort zone a little bit and I've experimented a little bit with that.

I did through Miriam Publishing.

A couple of the authors were using a very lovely person from the Philippines and she's helping generate once a week a social media post that works on the marketing aspect, the lesson, or sometimes I wanted her to create a little feedback survey when I go to schools and things like that.

Oh, nice.

So when I get them back, sometimes she'll post things.

Another great feedback and talk about it's book day today.

Grab your copy on Amazon and various things.

If you do go on my author page, you'll see stories and things, things that she posts.

So I am between some of the things that I do, posting some of my visits or experiences and using an outside person.

And are you happy with the way that's working out for you?

I am.

I'm comfortable with that.

I'd like to eventually be more comfortable doing more myself.

Okay.

I'm curious.

We talked about your relationship with Sylvia and her family and then there was a couple of years where this whole development of the story idea.

But when you start thinking about, okay, I would love, I'd love to be a children's book author.

Was there a specific person or event that kind of pushed you over the top to finally write your children's book?

I again, it was something that resonated when I spoke with her, but I think it was more like, if I don't do it now, when will I do it?

I guess this would be the event.

My mother would always say, as we all have interesting lives and there's things that happen in our lives that we didn't expect.

And my mother had a journey in her life and we both shared the love of an author named Danielle Steele, who's written a lot of books about family life and her family and things she always said to me, we should write a book together, you know, about my life.

And I think, I'm sorry that she didn't get to see this book and I didn't write a book with her.

Yes.

But I think that was really what pushed me over the edge.

I said, if we don't do.

Do the things that we.

Even if they're dreams, that they're really deep inside us, if we don't bring them out, if we don't do them now, then yes, when these things.

Good.

Good for you.

I want to talk to you about Bao Bao's character development.

I don't think you've held a panda or being with a panda.

And so of course, you have to use your creative juices to.

To create this character.

So talk to us about how you got into the whole Bow Bow character development.

I knew that panda bears were gifted to America, in particular, going back to President Nixon, many in the 70s.

I believe that was the first time they were gifted.

So I pretty much was sent that I would use a panda because they're cute, they're cuddly.

I open all my presentations with children.

I ask them, I have a slide that says, who doesn't love panda bears?

And every once in a while, one or two children will have their hand raised and they'll be.

They'll tell me, maybe they're scared of them or they're big or they never seen one, so they don't know.

And then I go into show showing them a couple of real pandas in reels and how playful they are, how cuddly they are, how their caretakers become so instrumental in creating their habitats.

And as they.

So you know, you don't realize when you do a children's book because it is fiction.

But I tried to do as much research on pandas watching reels, watching the panda cams, finding out facts about pandas.

As a matter of fact, you'll probably bring up in the.

My last page is Fun facts about pandas.

It was that research helped me develop Bow Bow.

Yes.

Because you know what?

It was interesting you should say about your last page.

I didn't realize they liked to swim.

I knew they climbed trees, but I Didn't know they were swimmers.

So that was something new.

I learned what's really fun that I do with that fun fact page is at the end of my presentation.

Whether it's in a library with parents or teachers.

We do thumbs up, thumbs down.

Is it a fact or isn't it a fact?

Usually is the one that catches people.

They don't realize that pandas can swim.

Pandas are actually.

They can climb trees too, but they are very clumsy.

And it couple of the reels that I show the kids, you see them attempting to climb trees and do things and slipping down.

Let's pick up on your theme.

Give the audience a sense of the theme of the book.

The theme is so we deal with.

So Sylvia visits the Beijing Zoo with her family.

They witness a baby panda being born.

They happen to be there right when Bao Bao is born.

They are all in awe of Bow Bow, but in particular Sylvia.

She has all kinds of questions as children are very curious and she shares them with her online teacher, which is me.

She shares photos and pictures.

And every Saturday her and her family go and visit Bao Bao and they watch her turn from a newborn to a baby cub.

Then one day when they return, Sylvia sees a little note fluttering by the habitat there and it says that Bao Bao will have a new adventure and will meet new friends and is traveling to America.

Of course, she is devastated to find out that this has become a friend and something she likes to do.

So she is can't be consoled, but she needs to figure out how come she may be able to see Bao Bao again and come to terms with that loss.

So I think the themes are we can't protect our children with the many obstacles that they face in their lives.

We want our children to be proactive in solving their own problems.

So that's the real message that I want to get at.

And that's the central lesson for you through the book.

Yes, yes.

And also at the end and as the story moves forward.

One of what I sign in my books is I usually will say, may your life be full of new friendships and adventures.

That knowing that change can sometimes be good.

Not to be afraid of those changes, whether it's a move, whether it's your parents are splitting up, even small little things that happen to children if they don't get on the baseball team, or just that things will be okay.

Now that we know that you're working on a second book, I'm curious about your whole writing process.

And it's neat because you wrote your first book and now you're writing your second book.

So give us some insights into how you went about writing your first book.

And then what's changed in writing your second book, or has anything changed?

Give us some insight.

The challenge with writing a second once and especially because it's so close to and it'll come back, it'll be launched right around the one year mark of when I launched the first book.

So I think you want it to be just as and perhaps better because now you've gone this route before and I have to tell you, a struggle that I had was I think although I knew what to do, I felt like in the second book I wanted to do a little bit more than what I had done in the first book.

And when I received all three of my edits and when I received my first edit, I think I was trying to do too much and my editor had to rewrite and change and talk to me a little bit about that process.

And again, so as much as you think you maybe have it down, there's still a learning process.

And that goes on for a while.

I think my book, I wanted to bring my voice into it.

I wanted to get my story across.

That was a little more challenging this go round than I thought it would be.

Okay.

And it's an extension to Bao Bao's journey, is that correct?

So it will pick up with Bao Bao at the San Diego Zoo.

Arriving at the San Diego Zoo.

Cool.

Has anything else changed for you in your writing process from your first book to your second book?

Well, I can't pinpoint.

I just think just more awareness with the word count children's books.

You really have to be very careful with the words you choose and how you do it.

So I think that that's changed a little bit.

I just want to bring more of myself into it, choose my words more carefully.

I thought it would be easier in a way, but it really isn't easier.

Now besides your personal experience, because you're drawing on part of your personal experience for the story.

Did you and I know you talked about watching the video cams with the pandas and reels.

Did you do any additional research when you were working on your book?

I've been thinking more about the marketing this time.

Okay.

I have been thinking of perhaps when I do go to San Diego, perhaps getting into seeing if I can get my book, perhaps in one of the gift shops there.

So I think in terms of some of the marketing being more.

That's a great idea, an awesome idea because you'd certainly give the San Diego Zoo.

Lots of credit in your first book.

And continuing to do research, because the research that I did this time had more to do with how a panda would get from one country to the other.

What that transitional time.

Do you plan to send the San Diego Zoo one of your books in advance and see if you can set up an appointment?

That's a good way to go.

Or I believe that they have a whole email department, like the way they do with Barnes and Noble.

If you reach out to them, there's a department that handles the.

That.

So I certainly will.

I certainly will.

Once I have firmed up my.

Good for you.

It's fun that you have this little adventure planned also and tied into a visit.

My nephew is actually the character.

He actually had to make a move.

He was native to California, but spent four years, close to four years in New Jersey.

Okay.

And had to go back to California.

He's the central character in this.

And Val's role is to kind of spread happiness wherever she goes.

It's exciting because he'll come on the trip as well.

Good for you.

Lillian, I want to talk to you about success.

I know we talked about a book business plan, but I'm more curious about when you first started this journey of becoming a children's book author.

What did success look like like to you when you first started and what does it look like now?

What's the reality of that?

Sadly, I didn't think that much about how lucrative it would be once I published the book.

I really just wanted to get my book out there and bring happiness to kids and bring literature into schools and that type of thing and talk to them.

But now it does cost a little bit to go through, whether you publish completely self publish, or you go with an assisted publishing hybrid company.

So I do feel like I haven't really been charging.

I go into schools and I can sell a good amount of books when I go into schools because the children take home a letter and they can get their autographed copies.

But I'm shifting gears a little bit.

I still want to go into the schools and have children actually holding my book.

Yes.

I am going to start thinking about in terms of charging for my events and trying to get into, as I said, perhaps the San Diego gift shop there more bookstores and things like that.

Good for you.

Because you know what?

We all have this passion.

And definitely being a children's book author isn't the road to fame and fortune in most cases.

And.

But at the end of the day, it can be quite A considerable investment.

And a lot of times you're doing that because of your passion for it.

But at some point you gotta say, boy, wouldn't I like to get a little.

A bit of money to help me support my habit?

My habit.

It's exactly.

It's so funny, just the personal touches with things.

But because I often get cash, like, I'll.

I'll show up with my little 40, 50 books to present to the school.

They're all signed with bookmarks and things, and I'll get paid in cash.

And so after my little presentations, I go to my little bank, which is a teacher's credit union.

And I've become very friendly with the.

The bank teller there because we.

We're counting out the cash and, you know, putting it in my little separate account.

And it's so fun.

Funny watching it grow.

She's, hey, you're getting there.

You're getting there.

She's like, how much do you have for me today?

Oh, that's nice.

Oh, so it's cute.

It's fun.

Fantastic.

The role of writing.

Now that we know you're writing your second book and perhaps writing more than just the two, it sounds like you're starting to set yourself up to.

To take on more of the role for yourselves in the future, to reduce some of the costs and keep enjoying your habit.

Yes, I love that.

The habit.

Tell us about the role of writing in your life now.

It's funny because I thought if I just wrote one book, I'd be done then the second book, naturally, with things that happened in.

In real life.

And now I.

In ladies in my book club, one of them said to me, in a series, there's always three books.

So you're going to have to come up with an idea for a third book.

I'll give you an idea for your third book, okay?

Because you got triplets, maybe you could come up with a triplet connection in your third book.

I don't know what that'd be.

I'm just throwing that out.

Well, I think the natural.

I really consciously made Bao Bao a female because in the back of my head, I thought the cycle of life, it would make sense then to have bao bao, you know, and maybe the third book, lipstick, having triplets.

So we'll see.

I'm putting.

I'm writing that down.

I didn't think.

But that would be a nice connection.

My triplets would love that.

And you know what?

I've talked to, like I said, Over 100 children's book authors now.

Nobody has written a Triplets book, right.

All right.

So yeah, you got something special coming.

But some point though, you never know.

I also have a manuscript somewhere in my computer here that I started with a regular adult book.

Okay, 59 and counting.

And I passed that age.

But I can update it, I can modify it a little bit.

But just I was thinking of my mother with that one and my father as well because I passed the age that my father passed away and I always thought I was very conscious and very anxious about turning 50, 59, because that was.

So that, that would be.

We'll see.

Maybe I will get that book.

You never know.

Never know, you never know.

Advice for aspiring authors.

What kind of advice would you give aspiring children's book authors?

The advice is I.

You can.

Any idea you can make into a children's book.

The story, sit on it, just get your thoughts.

As I said, don't let that music die inside you.

Just really do it.

Just do it.

Find a way to make it.

I think whatever you decide to take, you'll be happy that you did.

And what keeps you going as a children's book author?

I just think the idea.

I just, I love being around children.

I just love the things that they say, their whole perspective on life.

I think if I can just give them some quality books where they can children's books, they can entertain, they can subtly teach, they can growth opportunities.

There's so much in children's books.

So I think just knowing that I can keep presenting and keep being around kids.

Wow.

And encouragement for readers.

Why should children's book readers purchase your book?

I'm going to turn it a little bit to even the adults.

What bothers me as a teacher is technology has become such an integral part of daily kids lives.

Yes.

There are so many positive things, things I am open to the learning that goes on.

I use technology obviously when I go to my presentations.

But the idea of sitting with a child, not on the iPad, reading the story, holding the book, being able to flip, look at expressions on faces, go back, retell the story.

It is a good way for children and the parent or the teacher or whoever to communicate.

Sylvia, is feeling sad.

Can you think of a time when you felt really sad?

What did you do about it?

Who helped you get out of that sadness?

I think it's just so important for kids to have a book to hold onto and we can't let that go.

We have to support libraries and bookstores and storytelling opportunities because it brings true connection.

No question.

Final thoughts.

Lillian, is there anything that you said.

Oh, geez, I wish Rick would have asked me that question.

Is there anything you'd like to share?

You were great.

I loved all your questions.

You know, I think one lesson that resonates with many of my group members that I've dealt with is we don't think twice about maybe running into the store, grabbing that Starbucks cup of coffee or taking that vacation or but really investing in yourself is.

It really is.

It's really makes you feel good when you invest in yourself.

Yeah, it's rewarding.

And so go ahead whatever your dream is.

As I tell the kids when I speak to them, maybe you never want to write a children's book, but maybe you have a dreams of aspiring to be a professional baseball player.

If I'm talking to the older kids or a singer or a teacher or a nurse, just do the little things each day, something small to reach that goal.

Thank you, Lillian.

Thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast.

Your generosity of time, your insights will significantly benefit aspiring authors and readers.

We promise to provide our audience with Lillian's social media website and her book links to all of that.

If you've enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to our future episodes and feel free to share this episode with anyone inspired by or who enjoys hearing about Lillian and her children's book, Bow Bow the Baby Panda.

Thank you, Lillian.

Thank you.