The Five Theatre Girls: five women from Doncaster, who were never professional actors but just performed on one of Great Britain's most revered stages.

Sandra, Christine, Ruth, Sharon and Sally were part of The Odyssey: The Underworld at the National Theatre of Great Britain, the culmination of a project that has brought amazing change to all of their lives after 35.

The Odyssey was the National Theatre's nationwide multi-venue production to celebrate the fifth anniversary of Public Acts, a national program to create extraordinary acts of theatre and community. I read about this project and saw that some second chapter women's stories that were emerging out of the project. I needed to hear more about their stories and I'd love to share them with you!

For more about the National Theatre and Public Acts: https://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/

https://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/about-us/theatre-nation-partnerships/public-acts/

For more about Cast in Doncaster: https://www.castindoncaster.com/about/about-cast/~~~

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On The Second Chapter, serial careerist and founder of Slackline Productions, Kristin Duffy, chats with women who started the second (or third… or fifth!) chapter in their careers and lives, after 35. You’ll find inspiring stories, have a few laughs, and maybe even be motivated to turn the page on your own second chapter!

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Five Theatre Girls: How Five "Normal" Women Took to the National Theatre's Largest Stage

[00:00:24] Enough about me. For this week's episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with five women from Doncaster. They're now calling themselves the Five Theater Girls. They were part of the Odyssey, the underworld at the National Theater of Great Britain, which was a culmination of a project that has brought amazing change to all of their lives after 35.

[00:01:06] So, basically the production was told over five parts. The Odyssey, the production was told over five parts with each episode of Odysseus's journey created and performed by local artists and communities from four partner organizations. And I'm mentioning all this because the women talk about it quite a bit.

[00:01:36] You'll hear them speak quite a bit about the Don Cast Chalk Circle, which was presented in Doncaster in partnership with cast theater in August, 2022. The 14th and 15th of April this year, the second episode of The Odyssey, The Cyclops, took place in Caste in Doncaster. And then in August, the fifth and final episode, The Odyssey, The Underworld, brought together 160 people from across the nation.

[00:02:21] So the fact that these women got the chance to do it blew my mind. I had to hear more because they are not professional actors by trade. So this is why the change was so major. The company that performed the final episode of the odyssey, the fifth and final episode of the odyssey, the underworld was six professional actors, musicians, and performance groups, 68 freelance artists working across the nation, as well as community members, including these wonderful women, what these women got from this project was Not only the chance to appear on this major stage, but friendships that they cannot stop speaking about during this episode.

[00:03:05] Sharon: we're like, wow, we're going to do a play and a really amazing play. And other places all over the country are doing their episodes of this play.

[00:03:23] Kristin: Welcome all of you to the second chapteR podcast. I'm really excited to speak with you. First of all I've said a little bit in the intro about what Public Acts is and what you've all been up to, but I would love to go around and first have you introduce yourselves and we'll talk a little bit about how you got involved. Sandra, nice to meet you. Can you tell me, just say hello, really, so we can recognize your voice.

[00:03:54] Kristin: wElcome Sandra. Ruth, can you introduce yourself to everyone.

[00:04:06] Kristin: Sharon, can you just say hello to everyone so we recognize your voice?

[00:04:12] changing lives and that's how I became involved in public act, supporting the women that I work with, but then just got completely hooked. And now the theatre's just become a massive part of my life.

[00:04:27] Christine: Hello, my name's Kristin.

[00:04:30] Christine: I am a retired nurse, yeah. living in Doncaster now, so nice to be here.

[00:04:34] Kristin: Nice to meet you, Kristin. It's nice to have you on the podcast.

[00:04:39] Kristin: Sally.

[00:05:02] Kristin: I would love to go back to you, Sandra, tell me a little bit about public acts, first of all.

[00:05:38] Memory, learning to dance again. But the team and the relationship and the family that I have now got has been something I will never ever forget. ever forget. It's been a dream, and these girls that are with us now, they are like my extended family. And as a retired nurse, I like people, but this has been something.

[00:06:31] I kick off my shoes and feel the earth beneath my feet. That's like me. I've kicked off my shoes and it's the stage I've felt between my feet and the warmth when you have an applaud and a standing ovation. You've got to do it to be able to feel that. And these girls have stood by me, they've helped me.

[00:07:06] Kristin: I'm sure they will. It sounds like the family is tight.

[00:07:11] Kristin: Christine, you are also a retired nurse. So I'm interested because I feel like a lot of people I talked to started out as nurses. This might've been your calling, but do you feel like maybe you found a second calling .

[00:07:44] I moved up to Doncaster because I'm much closer to my mum here, but so it's very different from London. So I moved up to a city that I didn't know very well. and tried to make a life for myself during COVID. So it was extremely difficult uh, until I saw on the internet an advert for.

[00:08:17] And from then on we met James Blakey and he encouraged us to try out for the new play, which was the Doncaster Chalk Circle. And it's gone from there really. To say that I've acted in small fringe theaters in London and what have you, and then I come up to Doncaster and CAST in Doncaster, gives me the chance to be on the Olivier stage in London.

[00:08:53] Kristin: Maybe I need to move because I'm an actor myself and I have to say the dream, of course, is to be at the National Theatre

[00:09:18] And she said to me afterwards, she said to me, the thing is, Kristin, you're there as a sort of an amateur actor at the moment with. Everybody else, everybody knows. And she said, you have been on the stage that I will never ever get on. And I said I said, you can't say that you never know. And she said, no, she said, not many people get on the Olivier stage.

[00:09:44] Kristin: I like to think never say never.

[00:09:55] It's filled a huge void, not nursing anymore. [00:10:00] Now I'm fine now. I don't, to be honest with you, I don't miss nursing now. I'm quite happy with what I do now. I'm very happy to be retired. But it's just bizarre that you come to a city a long way from London and then get invited back to London.

[00:10:18] Ruth: Yeah I can say a bit about myself about how I I get involved with National Theatre. I was lost on the earth and from nowhere National Theatre just came to use Changing Lives and Sharon just said to me if I would like to stay after I walk, you understand, then at that time.

[00:10:52] That's what I said to myself, even though I didn't tell Sharon. But she said, oh, the girls can, the girls is welcome, not just you. I said, oh, really? So this is how it all started. I don't know what I'm into, but for the fact that I don't get home after work, then jump on my bed and cry all my eye out, then the pillow is soaked.

[00:11:17] Kristin: It's very personal, but can I ask you what was going on that was making you feel like your life was falling apart?

[00:11:41] So my ex has really been abusive towards me. So I thought it's normal thing in every relationship. You just have to keep bearing it. So when I found myself in Sheffield, from Sheffield to Doncaster. So after then, I never go into any relationship. I was like, okay, I'm going to give it a go.

[00:12:15] And I just look at myself. Who am I? Am I a bad person? Why is he? Why is it? What is it with me? Why people always say you are good. You are nice, but why can't. This is why? This is all that was in my mind. Then, so this was what I was going through when the national theater came, get in touch with Sharon, which I dunno, Sharon just said, oh, there is this going on.

[00:13:01] I didn't cry. Because... The bit that we were doing, the movement, this is all we were singing then in my head when I get to bed I just said, oh this is different, I'm gonna stay next week. Like Sandra said, sometimes there's a bit of challenge because I know during Chalk Circle, I had COVID twice, so that's another barrier at that time too, but still, I didn't give up. And when I came back, the welcome from Annabelle, James, and all the ladies in in center was really just make me go, it's really, I miss all this, I miss all this, I miss all this.

[00:13:58] Things that I could do before, things that I couldn't say before because I'm always full of you. You can do it.

[00:14:16] Ruth: I can't believe myself. When Sandra was talking, it's yes, that's true. It's dreams come true. People often say dreams come true. Not when you win a lottery.

[00:14:46]

[00:14:52] Kristin: The movement and the learning that you've gone through, I'm sure is amazing. I'm going to jump to Sally because I want to hear a little bit about how Sally came [00:15:00] to this and I want to hear because you mentioned James Blakely first. So if you could talk a little bit about James Blakey as well.

[00:15:32] It's not about what it's, it is an art group, but it's not about achieving it. It was about just having a go at something that you've never done before. And so we had, good numbers. And then we We were told that if we were interested, we could come along to the drama group on a Friday.

[00:16:12] I believe how much I enjoyed it. And you know it was the first time in my miserable life that I actually felt a real joy.

[00:16:40] And I did, and he went round everybody and had a word then he just said, would you be interested in... I was like, I actually really would. And I tend not to, even though I'm quite an outgoing person, I don't volunteer for things quickly. I tend to hand back and just see to make sure that I'll be competent but I had no hesitation whatsoever.

[00:17:25] Kristin: Remember that people who are listening don't know about James Blakey. So tell me a little bit about him

[00:17:46] As far as I could see at that point, it was his baby. I thought it was, that he'd orchestrated this and piloted this idea and then I realized then what a scale of a project it was

[00:18:24] We first did the magic of, no, we did that We Begin Again, which was like a podcast song and there was a professional artist singing on that beautiful song. So we did that because it was in lockdown and then we

[00:18:45] So that was our first sort of performance together. It went down really well. And then we did Chalk Circle. And it was absolutely a fantastic experience. In the church we use a phrase, when you have a burden for something, that means say, I'd say, I've got a burden to help.

[00:19:15] you could appreciate that. And that is such a gift, and it is a gift that he kept giving, and he kept giving. And he kept giving, from my observations as a,

[00:20:08] That was some production it's taught me so much about myself. It's opened me eyes. And this has given me an opportunity to find out another reality for me that I didn't think I would discover. Three or four years ago, there's no way I would have been able to take this on.

[00:20:49] But this time round, did the work again, got my program back in my life and it was totally different. I'd been a terrible insomniac from being a little girl before anything bad, my parents dying and lots of life stuff.

[00:21:22] That's nearly three years now.

[00:21:44] All the things that happen in a rehearsal movement and emotion and joy and all of it that, that, sometimes I think a good night's sleep just after a few hours of good hard work in a theater is definitely something. Sharon, I want to ask you, because I know you were working on Public Acts, you weren't meant to be, you just all of a sudden were part of it.

[00:22:29] Initially, and it was. Like, I'm really passionate about the work I do, and he sold it to me as Public Acts the initiative of building community and a theatre that's accessible for all, extraordinary acts of theatre and community, that absolutely sold me, I was like, that sounds really good.

[00:23:11] It doesn't surprise me that I enjoy being on stage, because I'm already confident. But what surprised me, what shocked me is my life's been quite challenging. I have a lot of care responsibilities, I've experienced some quite just trauma if I'm really honest. But being on the stage for DCC was the first time I could ever remember not having my phone turned on.

[00:23:48] We'll take care of that. I didn't expect that. I didn't expect everyone to just be joining this journey with me, all my family and friends. And that took me by surprise. And so the theater experience for me has been fantastic. I love the theater. It's been absolutely life changing, but it's my life that it's changed.

[00:24:21] It's okay to be an unapologetically you and that's absolutely precious and the girls, these, who we're with now, this is lifelong friends and the experiences, the theatre's fantastic. I love being on the stage. It's absolutely my home but the experience and the life changing events comes from these women

[00:25:07] Sharon: I'm very different, Kristin, very different. When I'm, I've just turned 50, so you have all that life experience, so there's no time for any bullshit, like we've already done all that, so you just. Totally honest with each other, but really kind and respectful and it's just somebody can be honest to your face, but then really have your back.

[00:25:40] When we got on those dorms in London, oh my goodness, it was like we were teenagers and students running up and down the halls, filling kettles in our nighties, we actually got told could we be quiet and we actually got moved off the quiet coach at the train because we were being too noisy. It was just

[00:25:58] Why were you in the quiet coach in the train to begin

[00:26:02] Sharon: Because

[00:26:17] It just, it fetches something really special that I think Sandra says, you cannot... speak about unless you experience it and it changes your life and absolutely for the better and you don't expect it and it hits you like a bus and you just have to really cling on and see where you're going to be taken but in my case it's been for some unbelievable healing and I've never been happier than I am right now and I'm still sad about all the loss and everything I've experienced but it's okay to be happy too.

[00:27:12] Is something that maybe these life changes that I'm so passionate about, that I love to talk about on the podcast, maybe that's why they're so important because they teach us to coexist with everything we've experienced in our lives.

[00:27:25] it's finding peace and finding balance because nobody gets to 50 year old without carrying something with them. It doesn't matter what journey you're on, you're all on a journey with your own issues. And that's, it's just acceptance and I feel like specifically, I have never been in, because we were strangers.

[00:27:58] So the theatre and the acting... It's phenomenal. It's the most amazing experience public house has been all over the country So it's a national initiative. And so we've met loads of new people, but you carry Doncaster with you. It's quite remarkable

[00:28:29] That's outrageous

[00:28:51] It was as you say, there was a lot of us, there were 150, not only just the actors, there was the stage hands, everybody that, that helped us in the background. It was such a wonderful experience, something that I shall always remember. How long, I don't know, but as I say for me. I shall never forget it.

[00:29:16] Kristin: Christine, I'll ask you because you mentioned doing other theater in a smaller way before do you ever feel any, I hate the word regret, but I'm going to use it anyway. Like you missed your calling at some point.

[00:29:33] Kristin: Yeah. You're calling for the stage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:36] Kristin: You wish it was something you had done earlier or do you feel like this was just the right time in your life?

[00:30:02] There was no stage schools around where I was and, it was all watching people on television. It was all dreams, really. I went into nursing and went to London and I have no regrets about my nursing career whatsoever. 38 years an NHS nurse completely in London I loved every minute of it. But as far as acting's concerned, now that I've retired from the nursing and gone back to hopefully a lot more acting, I feel that I've got so much experience from my nursing that I carry into my acting. From people that I met in nursing patients and nurses and the way that they were, all sorts of different people, but also the way that nursing makes you feel the responsibilities that you have.

[00:31:21] fail to prepare, prepare to fail, just was incredible there. Everything was thought of, every single concern that we might have had had been thought about. Every single person who was down there was helping us at every stage. And I just, it was just a phenomenal experience from the acting side of things, being at the the National Theatre.

[00:32:07] I'd like to think that maybe somebody, instead of when they wrote Calendar Girls, somebody would write Five Theatre Girls and have the story of us because it would be wonderful

[00:32:19] Christine: no, to

[00:32:21] The amount of stuff that we've gone through as a group of five people, absolutely different stuff. And in any other circumstance, we would never have met. We would never have known each other and we would never have become good friends that we are.

[00:32:46] picked up instruments . hearing you all speak is so similar because they've gone on to perform on the stage.

[00:33:10] Unglamorous

[00:33:17] Kristin: Does anybody else have the same experience as Kristin, or maybe a different one in finding maybe life experience, how it's influenced your acting, or that you wish you'd done it sooner?

[00:33:48] And I always thought that I would've loved to have been an actress when I was really little. I thought it'd be great. And then after that, I think I wanted to be a nun, and then I didn't realize that you couldn't have babies.

[00:34:23] You especially when a big show, you want people that care about the end thing. The, that nurturing feeling. I felt a burden to do a really good job for James and Madeline and everybody that, and Emily, everyone that had been in and for the National Theatre. I felt that, like that responsibility more than I did, to be honest, more than I did about the excitement of what I was doing.

[00:35:10] That's what it felt like to me towards the end. But yeah, I don't necessarily regret, because I think you're where you are supposed to be in life. And, but I do think that's a, if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you've always got. If you're not prepared to take a risk and have a go and have a...

[00:35:44] So I don't have regrets. I certainly wouldn't have said no to any opportunities that came along, but they weren't coming along. So it's meant to be. I'm right where I need to be. I'm 62 and I've trotted off to the National Theatre and like Sandra, who'd have thunk it? Not me. Not in a million years.

[00:36:23] Kristin: One of my passions is obviously telling stories of women over 35 and then some but I think it stemmed partially because I became an actor as a second career. And I noticed how often our stories, our being Obviously, even amongst all of us on this screen, a big age range, but they become less and less.

[00:37:02] Whether it's acting, whether it's our real life stories, so much of what we bring is because of our life experience. And, people that aren't listening to these stories are missing out because the richness comes in all of this experience we've had.

[00:37:25] Sharon: Kristin, can I just say something? I've just realized that this is about the Odyssey, and I'm looking at the screen now, and we did DCC together, and then quite a lot

[00:37:37] Sharon: Doncaster and York Circle.

[00:37:47] Christine: women

[00:37:52] so I'm looking at the screen now and it's us five and I think when we got told that we've been chosen for the Cyclops, all of us looked at each other and were like, are you joking? This is who they've chosen? in this phenomenal play and they were so right, they chose so well.

[00:38:26] But we honestly, all of us, when we looked at the women that had been chosen were like Wow. I don't think we'd have all chosen ourselves or chose that selection. But, I think the Cyclops was our, I'm not, I'm maybe not speaking for everyone, but the time that we realized that we had been chosen, we were actually actors, and we were going to do a play.

[00:39:04] And then we're all going to come together and do something remarkable. And I think that faith that Public Acts had in us started to make us realize that actually we should have a bit of faith in ourselves too.

[00:39:15] Kristin: And

[00:39:18] I wanted to ask a little bit about that feeling, I know that you've, you've mentioned the joy and like feeling better about life but was that the moment that you felt like an actor?

[00:39:48] So I just, I always see myself like that, so I just, now, I just say no. I've got family. I've got more than that I didn't have. I've got [00:40:00] father. I've got sisters. I've got brother. This is how I see everyone around me. I remember one of the questions you asked before.

[00:40:29] I can talk. But you can't talk before, Mommy. I said, that's different. She said, and after Cyclops, the same thing again. She came back to me. Mommy, would you want to give up your job and do this? I said, Mercy, I wish I'm rich. She said, what do you mean by you wish I reach? I said because I need to pay the bills.

[00:41:10] I'm really happy and I'm super proud to be part of this production. Yeah, I just love every moment when I flash back. I love every moment and I just hope if anybody is out there that feel like just give it a go.

[00:41:37] I just love every moment of it. Give me time to really know who I am, what I'm capable of doing, what I can do, and how I can even... impact this into, in my community. Because me doing this a lot, I've got a friend who was like, how can you be coming home nine o'clock from rehearsal?

[00:42:22] And I, yeah, I was so happy that I can, the young one can see some of this because I just see myself like, if I don't, even my girls, they wouldn't have Just go to school and come back now. But this is my girls. I said, mommy, I wanna do this. Mommy, I wanna do this. It's really nice, I feel happy. Mommy was fun.

[00:42:45] Kristin: And they can obviously see, like you said, it's in you. So when you are experiencing that and it's in you,

[00:42:51] it. We when we believe that in us, then it just, Bring it out. So it just it's that belief

[00:43:17] Sharon: already started. Some of us, apart from Ruth, sorry Ruth, because she's far too young have started on a project with Leeds Theatre, Leeds Playhouse Theatre for performers, over 50. So it's a performance ensemble and we've just started rehearsals for that. That's great. But more excitingly maybe more excitingly.

[00:43:58] The entire 10 days was on our first performance. The lights went down, we were all massively overwhelmed. It was just absolutely, there's no feeling compared to it. And myself and Sally and one of our male performers, Mike. So Mike was in between me and Sally and he just put his arms out and he. Put his arms around us and he gave us a good squeeze, but I'm obviously a lot taller than Sally.

[00:44:39] Or just that humour between such a tight group. Because it could have, in any other situation, that wouldn't have been funny. But it was just our relationship made that absolutely hilarious. There was no intent. Mike's wonderful, we're very close. But the look on his face. I just went, that's not my shoulder, Mike.

[00:45:14] The audience might not understand them, but we're going to have a go.

[00:45:18] Kristin: When you said that about the sketches, both my arms shot up in the air with joy.

[00:45:37] And obviously this project has given you all so many different things, friendship new experiences, joy of being on the stage and now writing about it as well.

[00:46:04] And because we all know each other, those opportunities are presenting, and we're so heavily supported by cast. So anything that comes our way they're happy to promote for us. And I didn't even start my working career until I was 40, and the last 10 years have been a challenge. I honestly, my life right now is not a challenge.

[00:46:40] But

[00:46:42] Sharon: But

[00:46:45] Kristin: Christine is itching

[00:46:46] something.

[00:47:04] That's what they'll be calling it. It'll be brilliant. It'll be absolutely brilliant.

[00:47:25] Sharon: My quote would be, it's not always a shoulder. Sometimes it's a breast.

[00:47:32] Sharon: Sometimes it's just a boob. Sometimes you have to double pad. If you're laughing a lot, you just do. ?

[00:48:00] And afterwards, a professional actor came up to me and he said to me, he said, it was great. He said, it was lovely. But he said, I can tell you now, I have never ever seen anybody play a school teacher so well. You are absolutely brilliant. And I thought to myself that's only because I'd been doing a lot of lecturing in nursing and that's why, what I was saying about the experience that you bring with you.

[00:48:35] Kristin: and I would even translate that for everybody who's listening who doesn't want to be an actor , I think these experiences in our lives lead to They just make us better at everything. I don't mean we're great at everything, because I think so often what I talk about is change.

[00:49:04] It's all life experience. And I do think. From career to career or life change to life change. We can bring all of those experiences to just make the next thing a little bit more rich.

[00:49:31] It was something that I'd been doing. So it's just a point.

[00:49:54] And I hope, like you said about, the theater girls at 90 or doing things until you're 95 or whatever [00:50:00] it is. I hope I'm learning every single step of the way and challenging myself. And I really appreciate chatting with all of you who are clearly doing that.

[00:50:10] Kristin: Thank you all.

[00:50:12] Christine: Thank you

[00:50:22] Sharon: Thanks a lot, Kristin. Bye.

[00:50:24] Kristin: care. Bye.

[00:50:26] Kristin: bye.