Shownotes
- If the Church ever really understood and embraced missional living.
- What a missional community is and how it is different.
- 7 common challenges facing leaders today.
- Questions you'll need to answer before moving forward.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Transcripts
As the church has changed drastically for millions and millions of believers here in the last several months, a year and a half or whatever, from a mostly Sunday experience with so many people in churches, not sure of what's next.
Caesar:There is more and more interest in smaller communities of Christians mixing it up with they're not yet believing family and friends in their neighborhoods.
Caesar:Out of their homes and living their faith out in a much more tangible way in everyday life.
Caesar:I hear and read about this now more than ever.
Caesar:And I have to be honest, I'm like, I've already said I am excited and I'm hopeful.
Caesar:I really am.
Caesar:This gives me great hope.
Caesar:This is the way we've been living for years.
Caesar:And this is what we've been waving.
Caesar:The flag for, for decades is the Missional Community in missional church, our best option going forward for all of them.
Caesar:For the church, capital C will this work for us today or for you today?
Caesar:Just as it has for thousands of years in every imaginable culture,
Announcer:welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast where you learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area.
Announcer:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Announcer:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Announcer:And now here's your host Caesar kalinowski
Caesar:okay.
Caesar:I just got back from a little vacation to Florida, seeing some family, doing some boating and a little fishing, mostly just letting the days take us where it needed to take.
Caesar:I love not having a schedule full of meetings and decisions.
Caesar:There was nothing I had to do.
Caesar:I feel great.
Caesar:I really needed it.
Caesar:And it ticked off the three things that make a great vacation for me.
Caesar:It's my, I call it my vacation three B's that are different than the church measurement old school, three BS.
Caesar:This is my vacation.
Caesar:Three BS for a great vacation.
Caesar:I need a beach.
Caesar:I need a good book.
Caesar:And a good beer.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:That's it not bad.
Caesar:And we did all that and it was wonderful.
Caesar:So I am grateful and, but I'm rearing to go and I'm glad to be back in the saddle with y'all.
Caesar:Hey, have you joined us over on Facebook yet?
Caesar:In the Facebook group, Everyday Disciple Podcast, we have a Facebook group over there.
Caesar:I would love it.
Caesar:If you join us, you can search that up.
Caesar:Pretty easy.
Caesar:Hit join.
Caesar:We can talk about episodes, anything Missional, anything you're facing, wanting to try.
Caesar:It's also an easy way to get in touch with.
Caesar:You can search that up or you can go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash Facebook, and it'll take you right to our page.
Caesar:And before we get started, I want to always extend an offer.
Caesar:If you're interested in getting a little bit help with Missional, living, with setting up a full framework for discipleship and mission.
Caesar:If you want to grow in your gospel fluency, I love to tell you about the coaching that we offer.
Caesar:Set up a short zoom call with.
Caesar:You get to know you better, a little bit of your story and see if we can get you started Tina and I do this together.
Caesar:We coach couples as couples.
Caesar:However, if you're not married, we'll still coach you too.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:But if you're married, we want to do this together as a couple where it makes sense.
Caesar:You're one flesh you're leading.
Caesar:The same family.
Caesar:More information is available at Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:And you can get all the information and get in touch with us to set up that little zoom call at Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:Okay, let's dive in for this.
Caesar:Over two decades ago now, hard to believe it, the Missional movement began or at least what we sort of refer to is that it's hard to believe it wasn't even called that yet.
Caesar:Only by maybe a few people.
Caesar:Darryl Gruder released his book sort of became a big deal called missional church, a vision for the sending of the church in north America.
Caesar:He released that back in 1998.
Caesar:Oh man.
Caesar:That's hard to believe that, right.
Caesar:And we started Soma communities with a handful of other people and leaders in 2004.
Caesar:And we started that as an upside down way of planting churches by building missional communities of people who were disciples of Jesus, making more disciples in everyday life.
Caesar:And then we would re congregate those multiplying communities and this new Missional way of being existing, engaged.
Caesar:Well, it got a lot of church leaders and regular Christians, pretty excited as it promised to transform the church and make loads of new disciples.
Caesar:And it was supposed to break down barriers in our culture and stop the decline of church attendance nationwide.
Caesar:Well, did it happen?
Caesar:Is it happening did it worked or fail?
Caesar:Should you be steering your family or.
Caesar:Community towards Missional living and communities like that today in the wake of such a massive shift in the Westernchurch.
Caesar:Things have really changed as we're emerging from the pandemic with more outward focus happening these days and more Christians seeking to gather in homes in community.
Caesar:Thank God.
Caesar:It seems that we should talk about this.
Caesar:Is this really the best way forward?
Caesar:You know where I'm at?
Caesar:I'm going to say.
Caesar:Yeah, I think so.
Caesar:I recently read this quote for my long-time buddy Mike Frost.
Caesar:He wrote his book called the road to Missional 10 years ago.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:So more than 10 years after Gouda and he wrote it, Dan saying, I wanted the book to be a gentle rebuke to those people who were saying the Missional thing was good.
Caesar:We liked it, but it's kind of over now.
Caesar:And he says, my point was that if you think this was a passing fad, The latest get church quick scheme.
Caesar:You didn't understand the Missional conversation in the first place.
Caesar:Hmm.
Caesar:I've often heard it asked is, or was the concept of church as a Missional Community, being the primary structure for making disciples, just a pragmatic solution to a cultural change or reality that we are all facing.
Caesar:I don't believe that it is.
Caesar:I don't think it's just merely pragmatic.
Caesar:Or faddish and never was well, why?
Caesar:Well, like my original partner in Soma, Jeff Vanderstelt puts it.
Caesar:He says Missional communities are not a new program or methodology for the church, but an ancient way of being God's people set apart for God's mission in the world.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:So while the name Missional Community might be trendy, that concept is really nothing new at all.
Caesar:It's deeply biblical and culturally transferable from one time and culture to it.
Caesar:I totally agree.
Caesar:I totally agree with.
Caesar:So as we're facing new stuff and we're thinking is breaking up the church or organizing the church.
Caesar:I shouldn't say breaking it up as is organizing our people into communities that live on mission.
Caesar:Is that really the way for, and we still get to gather them up, but we know that's happening for a lot less people, but we're still the church.
Caesar:Let me define what a Missional Community.
Caesar:And a missional church would be a church that sees missional communities as their primary organizing structure.
Caesar:So here it is, a Missional Community is a family of missionary servants sent as disciples who make disciples.
Caesar:And you've heard me say that before.
Caesar:And I'll break that down a little bit.
Caesar:The Missional Community are Christians who believe we are children of God who live and care for one another, like a family, like a family who has God as their ABA, daddy, and Jesus has their brother.
Caesar:And that we believe we're empowered by the holy spirit for this.
Caesar:We are missionary sent by God to restore all people, places and things to himself, through Jesus fulfilling God's eternal plan of filling the world with his glory.
Caesar:And we see ourselves as servants of God who serve others as a way of life showing people what God is like and what life in the kingdom of God looks like now in tangible form.
Caesar:And we are together, disciples of Jesus who live intentionally more and more like Jesus and helping others move from unbelief to belief in light of the good news of the gospel in every area of life.
Caesar:Well, that sounds like the church to me, that's the church that I see in acts in the epistles.
Caesar:That's never going to change.
Caesar:That's not a fad.
Caesar:Would you agree?
Caesar:So as the church has changed drastically for millions and millions of believers here in the last several months, a year and a half or whatever, from a mostly Sunday experience with so many people in churches, not sure of what's next, there is more and more interest in smaller communities of Christians mixing it up with they're not yet believing family and friends.
Caesar:In their neighborhoods out of their homes and living their faith out in a much more tangible way in everyday life.
Caesar:I hear and read about this now more than ever.
Caesar:And I have to be honest, like I've already said, I am excited and I'm hopeful.
Caesar:I really am.
Caesar:This gives me great hope.
Caesar:This is the way we've been living for years.
Caesar:And this is what we've been sort of waving the flag for, for decades is the mission.
Caesar:Community and missional church, our best option going forward for all of us, for the church, capital C will this work for us today or for you today?
Caesar:Just as it has for thousands of years in every imaginable culture.
Caesar:Good question.
Caesar:I say yes, but I've discovered that despite all of the past or current hype associated with missional communities or micro churches, that term is being thrown around about a month and a half back for several episodes back, we did a whole episode on micro churches and what they are, whatever they're called and all the cool factor that's connected to this movement of smaller communities, despite all that most pastors and leaders I know have still barely embraced.
Caesar:A lifestyle of discipleship.
Caesar:For themselves, for their families.
Caesar:And they're not really promoting it to the church.
Caesar:Are people the family?
Caesar:Well, why is that?
Caesar:Here are 7 challenges that I see and I hear a lot and you know what?
Caesar:This is nothing new, either.
Caesar:This isn't just new in sort of response to Missional, living or discipleship is a lifestyle, but here they are.
Caesar:And you'll maybe feel a few of these as well.
Caesar:The first one is time.
Caesar:That's a challenge.
Caesar:I hear this.
Caesar:I'm afraid of the real commitment to being in making disciples in community.
Caesar:Yeah, it, it's kind of an all of life thing.
Caesar:It's a beautiful thing.
Caesar:It's what we were created for, but it does take more time.
Caesar:You can't box it just like having a family.
Caesar:You don't say, well, I'm only a parent.
Caesar:I'm only married this many hours a week.
Caesar:I only see my kids.
Caesar:Sorry.
Caesar:It's after three or it's after seven, you're supposed to be sleeping.
Caesar:I can't talk to you.
Caesar:So it does take more time.
Caesar:Second one is family.
Caesar:That's the challenge for a lot of leaders or even regular people, a challenge to living this way, a lifestyle discipleship.
Caesar:They said, well, what if my own family won't go along with this, but that's where it has to start.
Caesar:It has to.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:And, and, and actually that's the third challenge is stuff starting, just getting started.
Caesar:If I start and fail, I'll look bad to my.
Caesar:You know, if it ain't broke, like let's just keep doing what we've been doing.
Caesar:The challenge now, though, is we're not doing what we've always been doing.
Caesar:It's very different.
Caesar:It did break.
Caesar:The pandemic, showed us the fragility of trying to organize primarily once a week.
Caesar:And when our numbers weren't there.
Caesar:To start with in the sense of like, wow, people really grasping this and they never would miss being together as the body on a Sunday.
Caesar:Now I think our national average here and probably in the Western church was something like 1.3, 1.4 times a month, they would attend something like that on average.
Caesar:So it's not, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Caesar:Everything's changed.
Caesar:Don't let that challenge of, well, what if I start and fail?
Caesar:You got to get started.
Caesar:Like anything, anything worthy and valuable.
Caesar:You got to get started and learn.
Caesar:And I don't see it as failure when we stumble and get up and learn and go well, okay.
Caesar:Now I know that right.
Caesar:That's called learning.
Caesar:Here's another huge challenge to living this way.
Caesar:It's gospel fluency.
Caesar:People are honest.
Caesar:And they'll say to us, well, truth be told I've never been discipled in a way that the gospel was applied and allowed to transform every area of life.
Caesar:I've learned a pretty high degree of Bible literacy, maybe been to lots of Bible classes, seminary, maybe some M dibs along the way who knows.
Caesar:But they think, but I have a pretty low gospel fluency that ability to actually speak the gospel, speak the good news into every, in any area of life.
Caesar:To experience it in every, in any area of life.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:All of it.
Caesar:Like, that's what we mean by gospel fluency.
Caesar:And most people don't have it and they kind of know it.
Caesar:And so it's one thing to stand up with a prepared message and look smart and be smart and sound smart.
Caesar:It's very different to, in real time with messy people, believers and not yet bring the good news in our lifestyle, in our words, our actions.
Caesar:Number five big challenge I see is reproduction.
Caesar:A lot of leaders say I don't have a reproducible way that makes disciples that make disciples and live out the life that Jesus did.
Caesar:I got a bunch of classes.
Caesar:But I don't really have a way that reproduces this in people.
Caesar:And I see them reproducing it.
Caesar:Like I've discipled some people generally that means I've taken them through some studies or whatever, but even if you've really done, it is the way you're making disciples reproducing itself.
Caesar:The way that Jesus did certainly did, because here we are still talking about it as his disciples.
Caesar:Here's another challenge.
Caesar:This one's, I don't even like bringing it up, but I hear it a lot.
Caesar:Is.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:And some of you are hearing this right now.
Caesar:It's like, well, the whole Sunday thing is weird and there's not hardly as many people here anymore and we're streaming it.
Caesar:And well, we got a pretty good stream number.
Caesar:That's false.
Caesar:It only takes three seconds to count as a stream.
Caesar:Now we don't know, and we can't even see their faces now sitting in silence and rows.
Caesar:So, you know, but they go, but if we were to somehow pull this off and move our people, you know, they would actually embrace life in a vibrant Missional Community.
Caesar:Well, they might come stop coming to church on Sundays all day.
Caesar:And then how would we collect their money and pay the bills around it?
Caesar:One time.
Caesar:I was teaching at a seminary and actually the head of theology for that seminary was one of his classes.
Caesar:And he was introducing me to a bunch of his students and he said, well, I want to let you know, before Caesar gets started.
Caesar:Uh, I know him, he's a good guy.
Caesar:You're going to love everything he has to say, but real quickly, you're going to start thinking to yourself, well, why aren't we live in this way?
Caesar:Why haven't I heard about this more?
Caesar:Why isn't my own pastor leading us in these ways.
Caesar:And I just want to assure you that your pastor will.
Caesar:Disagree with anything you're about to hear from Caesar and it's all biblical.
Caesar:They wouldn't have no objections to what he's saying, except for financially.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:They don't know how to manage that.
Caesar:So then they'd push on it and go ahead and Caesar, you can get started now.
Caesar:What did you actually just say that out loud?
Caesar:Yeah, he had, and I think if we're honest for a lot of the church, they don't, if people aren't coming to receive their goods and services, they fear.
Caesar:If your will, how would they like, would they still keep sending in or in throw, what basket could they throw in their money or whatever.
Caesar:I want to tell you that live in this way and leading people this way and seeing multiplication and even new congregations, forming many times this way, but of communities living on mission.
Caesar:We've never seen a money problem.
Caesar:People who embrace the gospel and live like a family of missionary servants, support that mission.
Caesar:And God pours out his blessings into those families.
Caesar:That will not be the issue.
Caesar:However, you might have a hard time paying the tab.
Caesar:Last big addition on your building or the build-out or whatever.
Caesar:I would encourage anybody in this space of our history and life is the church.
Caesar:You might want to put the brakes on any new building programs coming up.
Caesar:I don't know, I'm not saying in every case, but I would be scared to death to be trying to build bigger buildings right now.
Caesar:I think we need to be using that resource in our time resource, in our life resource to help people move into a lifestyle of mission and understanding of how the gospel is good.
Caesar:All day, every day.
Caesar:Here's the seventh challenge.
Caesar:That's a big one.
Caesar:It's comfort.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:It's the last one I have, but maybe it's the hardest to admit people say, well, I really prefer my faith in ministry and Christian vocation.
Caesar:Just the way it is or the way it was.
Caesar:Thank you very much.
Caesar:I've worked it out my time, my ministry, my okay.
Caesar:Over here, my family and my hobbies, everything in its place.
Caesar:And that's hard.
Caesar:It's hard to admit, but if comfort is getting in the way of life on mission, and I think we need to go for a long walk and talk to dad about that and see what the spirit is, is saying to our hearts.
Caesar:This all starts with you and your family.
Caesar:Be it a church leader, a pastor, or just a believer who's trying to live this life and feels a call to something more, something bigger.
Caesar:He'll never lead others further or disciple them any better than you live this out in your own life and in your own household.
Caesar:You'll never lead anybody further than your living it.
Caesar:This can be challenging for us to get our heads and hearts around because for many of us we've built our Christian lives around a pretty much Sunday, mostly church service.
Caesar:Maybe we added in a mid week, small group.
Caesar:Of course, that kind of got broke for a lot of people during the pandemic.
Caesar:Maybe an occasional serving project, but not this last year, but here's the thing.
Caesar:If we treat discipleship and mission.
Caesar:Like a weekly meeting or events on our schedule, even if our Missional Community life's that way, it's just an event.
Caesar:Well, that's all, it'll be right.
Caesar:If discipleship and mission is a weekly event or a series of meetings, that's all it will be.
Caesar:And then fortunately your relationship with God will mirror what you live in practice.
Caesar:And so will your churches, so will your families.
Caesar:Life with God will be nothing more than a scheduled event or now reduced to a livestream once in a while, when it fits our schedules.
Caesar:Dallas Willard has said that every church and therefore every church leader should be able to answer two important questions.
Caesar:Maybe you've heard this before.
Caesar:Powerful.
Caesar:He says first, what is our plan for making disciples?
Caesar:And second does our plan.
Caesar:Please hear that?
Caesar:Stop.
Caesar:Pause here to get in fact, I'm going to say it again.
Caesar:What is our plan for making disciples and does our plan work most pastors and churches I know would sort of reluctantly say, well, well we have a plan, but then if I dig a little deeper, it's usually a series of classes.
Caesar:And even if everybody in the whole church attended, that's not discipleship.
Caesar:My good friend, Mike Green says, if we're creating disciples who are far from the people we see in scripture in the early church, and that's the rule and not the exception, we must ask ourselves why this is the case and how we can change that reality.
Caesar:That was a big part of our story and our journey for Tina and I is.
Caesar:Going overseas in really rough areas to be with the church that had nothing, no buildings, no programs, no money in some cases, no clothing or food and just being the church.
Caesar:And then also simultaneously reading the book of acts and seeing how the church lived and goes, oh, they look just like that.
Caesar:And then coming home and saying, Hmm, that would not be the most common case here.
Caesar:And that's not what my life looks like.
Caesar:It doesn't look like the book of acts or much of the church that has none of the trappings that we have in the west there being the church.
Caesar:That's not, oh, that's not how I, that's not what I'm seeing so much.
Caesar:And that changed us.
Caesar:That caused us to be seeking the spirit and asking how do we begin to live this.
Caesar:And God led us to other people who were asking the same questions and then let us out west to Tacoma to start living that way.
Caesar:We had no idea how it would go and wow.
Caesar:What an adventure here are a few questions.
Caesar:I suggest everyone, especially church leaders ask themselves first.
Caesar:Have I been discipled truly apprenticed in the gospel in all of life.
Caesar:As someone taking me by the hand and I've seen their marriage and their parenting and how they work on cars and in the yard and what happens when they lose a job and when they sin and when they blow it and when they're stoked and when they get blessed and has someone apprenticed you that way in the gospel, second question, am I living a life worth?
Caesar:Imitating?
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:And not just spirituality, like, well, I have my quiet time every day and I read the Bible.
Caesar:I read two chapters a morning and not just that is your life in Christ.
Caesar:Is the kingdom comes so much in your life and your family life.
Caesar:Is it worth imitating?
Caesar:And then third would young followers of Jesus were even not yet believers be able to model their lives.
Caesar:After mine, ask yourself that and know how to make more disciples.
Caesar:Could they just look at my lifestyle and model that?
Caesar:And they'd be making disciples of Jesus not too many years ago, while I was still employed on staff at a large contemporary church, thousands of people, I had a pretty big stark reality check, sort of a Kairos moment dropped on me.
Caesar:I realized I had zero non-Christian friends.
Caesar:I had some acquaintances, I'm talking friendships, people I hung out with really liked and did life with.
Caesar:In fact, I hardly even knew my neighbors.
Caesar:I was just too darn busy pulling off all the programs that went on throughout the week after week after week.
Caesar:And mostly, always in fact, yeah, a hundred percent in the church building.
Caesar:I know that's changed a little now, but I'm not that much for a lot of us as far as we're how we spend our time as leaders, but that was the case.
Caesar:And that never made sense.
Caesar:If I, and a handful of other pastors and leaders in the church are supposed to be role models for the rest of our people, showing them how to live and make disciples as Jesus did.
Caesar:Shouldn't we shouldn't have pastors have loads of not yet believing friends.
Caesar:I'm not talking about acquaintances.
Caesar:I'm talking about friendships, relationships.
Caesar:Shouldn't we be rockstar, disciple makers live in the way that Jesus did modeling the same life with that he did with his disciples.
Caesar:I think so we get to, and that's what we'll produce the same fruit for sure.
Caesar:That's what we've come to see.
Caesar:But I was asking myself that and I said, Nope, I'm not living that way.
Caesar:And I think we get to be, we, you know, should we be?
Caesar:Yeah, I think so.
Caesar:And here's the fourth question you should ask yourself?
Caesar:Do I have a plan and a process, a method for making disciples that works and is reproducing itself to the third and fourth generations.
Caesar:We're, you know, I've not seen those people in just a bit, but then when I visited, when they, they got, they got grandchildren, so to speak spiritually and they got a life filled with people at all different rings of relationship and moving through their faith journey with it.
Caesar:And they've got people that are leading with them that came to faith, you know, a generation one or two back per se, you know, spiritually.
Caesar:Is that true for you?
Caesar:If not, I want to challenge you.
Caesar:Get the training and the help you need it.
Caesar:Admit that don't have it all figured out yet.
Caesar:No more excuses.
Caesar:A lot of us have a lot to learn your family, your church, your friends are waiting.
Caesar:And again, like I said, at the top of the podcast, I'd love to help you with this, any, or all of this.
Caesar:If you're interested in learning a proven full framework for discipleship and mission one that fits your lifestyle andn schedule.
Caesar:Not some heavy bolt-on.
Caesar:And if you want to grow in your gospel fluency in everyday life, starting with your family and moving outward to include more and more others.
Caesar:I'd love to tell you about the coaching we offer in the training we give.
Caesar:We'll set up a short zoom call, get to know each other, and I'll tell you all about it.
Caesar:If you want to do that, get a little more information, set up a call like that.
Caesar:Just go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:Now as always, I want to leave you with the big three takeaways from today's discussion.
Caesar:If nothing else don't want to miss these, and you can get a printable PDF of this week's big three as a free download.
Caesar:Download this.
Caesar:If you want this for discussion, by going to every day, disciple.com forward slash big three big's.
Caesar:Here are the big three for this week.
Caesar:First God has always desired that his people, his family would live together in such a way that the world would know what he's truly like, let that sink in a little.
Caesar:Living a life on mission with God is the life you were created and saved to now live.
Caesar:And this starts by believing that you are part of a family God's family of missionary servants sent as disciples of Jesus who make more disciples, filling the world with God's glory.
Caesar:Jesus, the glory of God.
Caesar:I know this sounds too good to be true, but it is true.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:Number two.
Caesar:Don't miss this, your past church apathy.
Caesar:If you have it, or lukewarm Christian lifestyle does not change.
Caesar:God's love for you.
Caesar:You don't have to prove something first before God will bless you in starting to live this way or leading others to do that.
Caesar:He knows the plans he has for you from before time began.
Caesar:And those are plans to bless you and prosper you for your good in his glory ask God to forgive any past complacency and then to lead you to truly live the life he desires for you, your family, your church, all day, every day.
Caesar:And then number three, start making an intentional step.
Caesar:Toward getting whatever equipping you need and growing in your gospel fluency today, that is the biggest thing you really need to start growing in your gospel fluency and having it leaking out in all of life.
Caesar:That'll change.
Caesar:You that'll change your family.
Caesar:That'll start changing your neighbors because a bunch of half read books about all of this stuff won't do you or anybody else?
Caesar:Take a course.
Caesar:If you need to get a coach, I'd love to be your coach.
Caesar:Find a Missional mentor or a community you can learn and grow.
Caesar:Every day, we have an opportunity to grow and mature in Christ and help others do the same life on life, life in community and life on mission.
Caesar:That's what we were created for.
Caesar:You're not waiting around anymore.
Caesar:Are you.
Caesar:Yeah, let's go.
Caesar:Woo.
Caesar:I get excited about this.
Caesar:Okay, well, I'm going to wrap us up here.
Caesar:Join me next week.
Caesar:As I asked the question, is your church too busy for discipleship?
Caesar:Maybe they got a whole bunch of new challenges and excuses to hide behind.
Caesar:I sure.
Caesar:Hope not, but it'll be a challenging discussion for many of us.
Caesar:Don't miss it.
Caesar:I'll talk to you soon.
Caesar:Thanks for joining us today for more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit Everyday Disciple dot com.
