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James Ellison & The Covenant w/ Shots and Thoughts
1st February 2022 • Let's Start A Cult • Cultiv8 Podcast Network
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In 1976, James Ellison moved to Arkansas, intending to establish a self-sustaining fundamentalist Christian commune made up of like-minded individuals who wanted nothing more than to dedicate themselves to God.

But by 1978 – a mere two years later – he and his followers had become domestic terrorists who believed in white supremacy and were willing to resort to violent means to overthrow the government of the United States.

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Transcripts

Josh:

Hi Fred.

Josh:

My name is Josh shell host of let's start a call podcast.

Josh:

The only podcast host to tell you the name of the podcast you were listening to every episode, even though you clicked on the podcast and are well aware of what it's called now, with that Metta inflection out of the way, it's time to introduce my guest.

Josh:

This episode, he is from the extremely funny and sometimes informative podcast shots and thoughts where each week he and his co-host take shots, learn a new topic and play some games along the way.

Josh:

He is also my co-host on my other podcast.

Josh:

Read it on Wiki, please.

Josh:

Welcome Sean.

Josh:

Salvino back to the podcast.

Josh:

How's it going, Sean?

Sean:

It's going good, man.

Sean:

there could not be a more precise and accurate description of shots and thoughts.

Sean:

I will be stealing that from now on

Sean:

and, uh, it's a good to be.

Josh:

Nice.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I think when this episode comes out, you'll have, you'll have done your live stream.

Josh:

so hopefully that goes well.

Josh:

and I believe you'll be onto your next season.

Josh:

Right?

Josh:

What season is this

Sean:

season?

Sean:

will be going on to season four.

Josh:

Holy

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

So we're like 80

Sean:

plus episodes, deep, ridiculous.

Josh:

Jesus.

Josh:

Do you have like a set?

Josh:

Is it like 20 episodes?

Josh:

A season?

Josh:

My math is bad,

Sean:

Oh, no worries.

Sean:

It's usually 25 episodes per season.

Sean:

And, but then we have like the season recap, which is like another episode and blah, blah, blah.

Sean:

And things get all fucked up.

Sean:

And, I think we have like 20, 27 or 28 episodes

Sean:

this, this season.

Josh:

Okay.

Josh:

That's that's pretty good.

Josh:

That's a lot of podcasts.

Josh:

That I might have 30 to 32.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

I'm sure someone will correct me, but, that is a lot of episodes.

Josh:

So if you want to

Josh:

burn

Sean:

seasoned pro though.

Sean:

You, you got dicey D 20.

Sean:

You got redded on Wiki.

Sean:

You

Sean:

got let's start a Colt.

Josh:

and some other failed projects that we don't mention, but,

Sean:

We don't talk about this.

Josh:

so last episode I had you on, let's start a call.

Josh:

I believe it was the ripper crew episode, right?

Sean:

Yes.

Sean:

I was

Sean:

not, ready.

Josh:

not not ready for the, boobs slicing, I believe it was.

Sean:

Uh, an ejaculation into the

Sean:

slice to boop.

Josh:

yeah.

Sean:

Good God.

Josh:

yeah, it was a lot, I had you on that episode because, , I wanted someone that isn't a murderer and I mean, you fit that bill pretty well.

Josh:

So yeah, I, I think, well,

Josh:

I don't know, maybe,

Sean:

we are only internet friends.

Sean:

Josh.

Sean:

You don't know

Sean:

my day to day.

Josh:

That's true.

Josh:

You could just be a serial killer by day podcast or by night.

Josh:

I'd listened to that podcast.

Josh:

That'd be good.

Josh:

so similarly, I wanted you on this episode today because you are many things, Sean, but, , above all else, you are proudly not a white supremacist, I believe.

Josh:

Right.

Sean:

that.

Sean:

would be correct.

Sean:

Proudly, not white supremacists, , very much against white

Sean:

supremacists.

Sean:

So, can't wait to hear about, , an awful piece of shit, I

Sean:

assume.

Josh:

Uh, he, uh, yeah, because in today's episode of let's start a call, we will be covering the story of the covenant, the sword, and the arm of the Lord, a white supremacist movement founded in the late 1970s by a fundamentalist preacher from Texas.

Sean:

Ah, dammit.

Josh:

What, what began as a rather peaceful.

Josh:

transformed overnight into a domestic terrorist group hell bent on spreading their racist ideology and violently opposing the government sound, sound familiar.

Josh:

I think

Sean:

I refuse to look at the one that look at, not refuse to look at the racism, but I don't, I don't spend a lot of time memorizing or

Sean:

giving them any type of notoriety.

Josh:

that's fair.

Josh:

So you have, you probably haven't heard of this

Sean:

No,

Sean:

the name itself sounds very, very

Sean:

white.

Josh:

yeah, it almost sounds like a fantasy novel, the covenant, the sword and the arm of the Lord and it rhymes.

Josh:

It's Dr.

Josh:

Seuss fantasy maybe.

Sean:

I can see it.

Sean:

I could see it.

Josh:

so this, this will be a fun one.

Josh:

and by fun, I mean, terrible.

Josh:

But before we jump into the episode, listeners, if you wouldn't mind subscribing rating, wherever you listen to podcasts, apple podcasts, pod, chaser, Spotify, any of those that helps the show and, yeah, we appreciate any support you can give us.

Josh:

So with that out of the way, we will jump into the leader of the cult,

Sean:

here we go.

Josh:

James, Dennis Ellison, the whitest name,

Sean:

I was about to

Sean:

say,

Josh:

the early years of, Jim, has he liked to be called or Jim, Kathy, as I like to call them are shrouded in mystery.

Josh:

But what we do know is that he was a fundamentalist minister from San Antonio, Texas who in 1976, received a divine directive to go to the Ozark mountains of Arkansas.

Josh:

There he established a fundamentalist Christian group called Zara fifth Horeb and built a compound on a sprawling 220 acre farm near bull Shoals lake that he had purchased himself.

Josh:

So he's already got his compound and we're one paragraph in

Sean:

I know that was very quick.

Sean:

He got the call from God,

Sean:

apparently, and then bam compound

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

So I usually, I like to focus on, their upbringing and how they became, like a leader of some sort, but there is just so much we have to dive into of the actual calls that I did not have enough time to.

Sean:

Uh,

Sean:

they got quite the

Sean:

rap sheet.

Josh:

Yeah, it's it is quite the

Josh:

rap

Josh:

sheet and quite the entanglement with other white supremacist groups as we'll find out.

Josh:

So according to the encyclopedia of Arkansas, quote, this isolated portion of the state was suitable for Ellison's intentions because it is demographically concentrated with a predominantly white population is secluded in rural terrain

Josh:

Ellison had also chosen the name.

Josh:

Zerephath Horeb I hope I'm pronouncing that right.

Josh:

Actually I don't care.

Josh:

It's a terrible, yeah, fuck them.

Josh:

because of the biblical connections, Zara fifth, which was the name of the town.

Josh:

God tested the prophet Elijah.

Josh:

Well Horeb was the mountain where the prophet Moses move to during the Exodus of the Israel lights from Egypt.

Josh:

So it sounds like a biblical name.

Josh:

It is a biblical name.

Sean:

for a cult name.

Sean:

You see it, you think you'd use it pretty?

Sean:

Uh, I don't know, an easy to say name.

Sean:

It doesn't really roll off the

Sean:

tongue.

Josh:

A catchier name.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Which they do change to it.

Josh:

So,

Sean:

Oh, okay.

Sean:

That's true.

Josh:

so to be fair, it, it does does James, this is when he's still

Sean:

he's still workshopping the, uh, the ideals.

Josh:

still technically working for the

Josh:

church.

Josh:

I think at this point anyway, so he is not necessarily a bad guy here.

Josh:

although it doesn't take long for him to pivot it's

Sean:

Yeah, I would say he might've

Sean:

just always been.

Josh:

you might be right.

Josh:

You might be right.

Josh:

I'm not gonna fight you on that.

Josh:

Uh, so what began as a peaceful community whose members kept to themselves transformed into something else entirely in 1970, When Alison claimed to have received a vision wherein God showed him a race war that led to the collapse of the American economic system and widespread devastation.

Josh:

So there, there it

Josh:

is.

Sean:

it is.

Sean:

the calling.

Josh:

two years, two years, he's already getting, Jesus messages.

Sean:

DMS, right with Jesus.

Josh:

Yeah.

Sean:

It's so insane.

Sean:

How many white supremacists slash quote unquote Christians there are when Jesus wasn't even really

Sean:

white,

Josh:

I mean, don't tell them so funny

Sean:

uh, insane.

Josh:

but yeah, you're, you're a hundred percent, right.

Josh:

He was definitely middle Eastern of some, like, he was definitely not white.

Sean:

So strange.

Josh:

That is their hill to die on.

Josh:

I don't know.

Sean:

They get visions from Jesus, but they don't see a, an Israeli man.

Sean:

they just see a

Sean:

European white, white Jesus.

Sean:

Now I don't

Josh:

yeah,

Josh:

some, some

Josh:

hippie dude that they probably also

Josh:

hate.

Josh:

so to prepare for this apocalyptic event, Ellison turned his compound into a paramilitary, survival, his training camp, and ordered his devote.

Josh:

He used to hoard supplies, including food weapons and wilderness survival gear.

Josh:

He also adopted and began to preach the idea of, Christian identity a white supremacist ideology characterized by the belief that the covenant of the Bible's old Testament was made between God and the Anglo-Saxons who are the real lost tribes of Israel Jews.

Josh:

On the other hand were descendants of Eve and Satan's children.

Josh:

Well, Africans weren't human at all.

Sean:

Jesus fucking Christ.

Josh:

Um, as Asian Sean, are you disappointed that you were not even mentioned

Sean:

I do.

Sean:

I do.

Sean:

tend to wonder why Hispanics and Asians just like, Uh, some might say worse now.

Sean:

Probably not worse, but it's

Sean:

like, uh, did you ever watch scrubs?

Josh:

a little bit, a

Sean:

I there's like a scene where, uh, one of the characters is like, I don't even hate you.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

I nothing you don't even think about you.

Sean:

And I was like, oh man, that's a, it feels like with a lot of white supremacy

Sean:

is, or at least old school, white supremacy, Hispanic people and Asian people

Sean:

just, not even on the radar there.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I would say even Hispanic people recently, are more on the radar.

Sean:

Recently.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

because all

Sean:

the stupid border people,

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Which I don't know.

Josh:

I would say it's, just as bad in some, some other ways like Asian people are definitely, they definitely have hate crimes on them,

Sean:

oh.

Sean:

Especially with COVID

Josh:

Yeah.

Sean:

the last two years have been

Sean:

insane.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

And because the media doesn't focus as much on Asian hate.

Josh:

It gets overlooked a lot of the time, you know what I mean?

Josh:

Which is terrible in its own regards, you know?

Josh:

And, uh, so, this probably doesn't help by feeding into that.

Josh:

so, well, not incredibly popular.

Josh:

the Christian identity ideology has been adopted by several extreme right movements, according to the Anti-Defamation league quote, thanks to area nations.

Josh:

some neo-Nazis became believers, clan leaders, such as Thomas, Rob, and Lewis beam adopted the faith as did some racist skinheads, such as the hammer skins.

Josh:

It also found a welcome home in extreme anti-government activism, notably the tax protest movement, the sovereign citizens movement and the militia movement end quote.

Josh:

in 1981 to reflect the group's new mission, Ellison changed its name.

Josh:

So there you go, to the covenant, the sword and the arm of the Lord or CSA for short.

Josh:

So very much it's very catchy,

Sean:

Yeah, I'm a

Sean:

borderline of rap.

Josh:

Spoiler line rap.

Josh:

Like I said, Dr.

Josh:

Seuss rhymes out here.

Josh:

the following year he declared himself king James of the Ozarks.

Sean:

See, that's when you that's, when you gotta be like, well, wait a second.

Sean:

Isn't Jesus.

Sean:

Our

Sean:

only king of that, that was our one goal here.

Josh:

No, he's the Lord.

Sean:

oh, He's the

Sean:

Lord.

Josh:

He's the Lord.

Josh:

I'm the king.

Josh:

His right-hand man Navy.

Sean:

Definitely.

Sean:

Weren't like, where's the whole new Testament.

Sean:

Isn't the new Testament.

Sean:

All like good vibes be attitudes.

Sean:

The

Josh:

They were, they were, old

Josh:

people,

Sean:

old Testament

Sean:

people, man, which is weird because Jewish people are also, I think The Torah is, and the old Testament have a lot.

Sean:

Uh, I mean, I'm not an ex.

Sean:

And Judaism, but, um, I'm assuming, you know, that's kind of where they

Sean:

differ because the Jesus thing, you know what I mean?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

The big, one of the main differences is definitely Jesus.

Josh:

I agree with.

Sean:

yeah, so it's weird that they are new Testament guys, but also at The same time, hate Jewish people who are also

Sean:

borderline new Testament guys or old Testament

Josh:

The old Testament Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I know what you meant.

Sean:

It's

Sean:

a strange,

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

A lot of, a lot of things they just overlook for

Sean:

uh, yeah, there, these guys are obviously not very smart, uh, considering they're

Sean:

racist.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

so, when he declared himself king James of the Ozark he issued a document called the declaration of non surrender wherein he outlined their main philosophies, which included antisemitism and the desire to overthrow the United States government by any, and all means necessary,

Sean:

That's what I'm talking about.

Sean:

The anti-Semitism you got more in common than you think.

Sean:

My God, if you just look at a look at things with a

Sean:

bigger picture.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

The

Josh:

government is

Josh:

definitely on your side, for the last 400 years or so.

Sean:

You definitely had quite the privilege.

Sean:

I don't

Sean:

know if you know this.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I don't know if you've seen a picture of all the presidents there.

Josh:

They're not minorities.

Sean:

They look a lot more like you than they do like me.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Oh yeah.

Josh:

it doesn't track, but,

Sean:

So strange.

Josh:

So to achieve these goals, Ellison, along with his followers, vowed to kill federal agents and law enforcement personnel,

Sean:

Holy shit.

Josh:

not everyone was happy with this new direction though.

Josh:

So kudos to the few that left, and the groups numbers dwindled in the early 1980s, the number of defectors increased when Ellison announced that he would go against the wishes of other church elders to take a second wife, an act that some viewed as adoption of one man's ministry

Josh:

of a one man ministry.

Sean:

This is, this is this a side, big, big side.

Sean:

Number two.

Sean:

Man's already declared himself king and he's taken more than one wife.

Sean:

You gotta be like, wait a second.

Josh:

Yeah, hang on,

Josh:

hang on.

Josh:

Uh, I was okay with the racism, but you marrying two women that's

Sean:

Well, that's

Sean:

where we got to draw the line.

Josh:

the old Testament

Josh:

is very clear in that sentiment.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

I feel like we have 10 commandments.

Sean:

this I feel like goes

Sean:

against

Josh:

this is, this is in one of them adultery.

Josh:

I believe that's that's in there, right?

Josh:

I may be stupid.

Josh:

I can't count to 10, but that's definitely one of the, uh, unfortunately many more still stayed, in complete agreement with Ellison and the racist idea that he was espousing.

Josh:

The CSA initially tried to underplay their white supremacist ideologies.

Josh:

However that changed in July, 1983, when the area in nation world Congress was held to honor Gordon call one of the leaders of the far right vigilante.

Josh:

posse come a lot has come a lot.

Josh:

This

Sean:

There's an air.

Sean:

What'd you say?

Sean:

An Aerion

Sean:

world?

Josh:

every nation, world

Josh:

Congress.

Sean:

Jesus, correct?

Sean:

That's a think,

Josh:

Oh, you don't get the

Josh:

emails or the,

Sean:

no, you Got to forward those to me, my brother.

Josh:

yeah, just white people, I guess.

Josh:

Got

Sean:

Uh, holy shit.

Josh:

no, it's a, yeah.

Josh:

It's like, you know,

Sean:

That's not,

Josh:

guys

Josh:

it's

Sean:

nother

Sean:

episode for you, I guess.

Josh:

ah, that would be many episodes.

Josh:

Probably there's a lot of groups involved in that, that, it's, it's basically just a racist convention.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

wild, that that could just, uh, they have, organized racist groups into an Alliance where they meet and stuff, scary that they strategize like

Sean:

that.

Josh:

Yeah, it's weird that it's legal to do.

Josh:

That

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

It seems,

Sean:

wrong.

Josh:

seems, it seems like it shouldn't be, we, I think we all agreed the area and race was a bad thing back in the thirties and forties.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

D did.

Sean:

We not have a whole world war for this?

Josh:

We, did.

Josh:

We did.

Josh:

Uh, Yeah.

Sean:

Maybe two of them.

Josh:

uh, this first one wasn't quite that.

Josh:

No.

Sean:

Yeah, I mean, I'm no history guy,

Sean:

so

Sean:

it's definitely the second one.

Sean:

Definitely.

Sean:

The second one.

Josh:

so, this guy, Gordon Kahl.

Josh:

So the lead, one of the leaders of, of the far-right vigilante group, post, I still can't pronounce it.

Josh:

Who cares?

Sean:

Give them no respect.

Sean:

Josh, give them

Josh:

respect.

Josh:

he was known for fervently,

Josh:

opposing the government, even going so far as to stop paying his income tax.

Josh:

That year on February 13th, he fatally shot two us marshals who had come to his hometown of Medina, North Dakota in order to arrest him a few months later, he was killed in a violent shootout with federal authority.

Josh:

So those are,

Sean:

Is it, is it bad of me that I'm hoping that a similar fate for the rest of these guys

Sean:

as well?

Josh:

no, I think, I think that is an honorable request,

Sean:

we talked about this on Reddit on Wiki.

Sean:

I don't know if this was the bonus episode or not, but I I'm, I wouldn't say anti death penalty, but I mean, shit happens, you know what I mean?

Josh:

No, you know what?

Josh:

I'm okay with them going to jail because, they're in jail with the many minorities that their laws that they forced to pass are stuck in prison with them.

Josh:

So, I'm sure they get their come up and when they're in jail, uh,

Sean:

you.

Sean:

gotta think there, like maybe my five swastika tattoos were a

Sean:

mistake.

Sean:

Maybe I was wrong about this whole

Sean:

thing.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Hopefully if nothing else, being surrounded with, majority of minorities that are, that are locked in prison, hopefully that maybe humanizes them a little bit, is my optimism talking.

Josh:

But, uh, so call was widely regarded as a terrorist and a murderer, but for white supremacist, he was a martyr who had been unfairly killed by the government.

Josh:

Ellison was one of his biggest admirers and said, quote, he has often been quoted as saying at the conference that he was sorry, he was not with call at his death.

Josh:

And that he was here to tell you that the sword is out of the sheath and is ready to strike for every one of our people.

Josh:

They killed.

Josh:

We ought to kill a hundred of theirs.

Josh:

So he's he's calling his men to battle.

Josh:

and shortly after the conference, Ellison led his followers on a violent crime spree that mostly involved bombings and arson.

Josh:

the CSA set fire to a synagogue in Indiana, a church in Arkansas whose congregation consisted of many homosexuals and another church in Missouri, for reasons unknown.

Josh:

They also attempted to destroy gas, a gas pipeline in both Chicago and Arkansas.

Sean:

strangely

Sean:

environmental.

Sean:

Nah, that's

Sean:

probably not, probably not,

Josh:

I think, well, Chicago, I don't know, Arkansas is demographic.

Josh:

Chicago, I feel is mostly African-Americans right.

Josh:

Or it's a large, large, Uh, population of Chicago.

Josh:

Right?

Josh:

So that makes sense, Arkansas, I feel is mostly white.

Josh:

Doesn't matter where you go, right?

Sean:

I would, I would believe so.

Sean:

Stereotypically, I.

Sean:

don't know, off the top of my head, but sounds right.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Neither do I.

Josh:

So Chicago makes sense for their racist ideologies, Arkansas, maybe it was just like, we're here.

Josh:

We might as well do it.

Josh:

I don't know but anyway, later Ellison would admit that they had hoped to assassinate government officials and other high ranking national figures by bombing the federal office buildings in Oklahoma city.

Josh:

But they ultimately scrap the plan.

Josh:

When he received a divine message, quote unquote

Josh:

from God telling him not to Bush through with

Josh:

it.

Josh:

I don't know why God intervene there and not killing a bunch of people in it and like churches and stuff.

Sean:

yeah, that's, that's

Sean:

the

Sean:

step

Sean:

step too far.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

So the CSA supported their violent activities by setting up booths at gun shows where they sold machine guns, silencers and explosives that they had manufactured themselves.

Josh:

This proved to be their primary recruitment tactic too, with members and inviting other gun enthusiasts to participate in their end time overcomer survival training school as a mouthful, but it's curriculum.

Josh:

According to the website, encyclopedia, reportedly included, quote, paramilitary training in the use of various weapons, techniques of urban warfare, wilderness survival, and Christian martial arts end, quote, I don't know what Christian martial arts Christian Marshall.

Josh:

Marshall, I can't say Christian martial arts includes, but I think it would not include jujitsu.

Sean:

Um, uh, you

Sean:

got the wrong Filipino on for this show.

Sean:

Yeah, that's a joke for John,

Sean:

my friend.

Sean:

I imagine it's just martial arts, but they have to specify like, oh, It's definitely is a white people, made it up.

Sean:

White people made it up.

Sean:

There's

Sean:

no Asian influence for sure.

Josh:

I imagine it being like, you know, how white people dance and it's just worse.

Josh:

I believe it's like fighting but worse.

Sean:

I could see it.

Sean:

I could see it.

Josh:

just awkward.

Josh:

And everyone's off bead.

Josh:

Doesn't make any sense as a white guy.

Josh:

I can say that cause I am terrible at dancing.

Josh:

Probably fighting too, but I wouldn't know.

Sean:

There's only

Sean:

one way to find out Josh.

Josh:

oh God, I gotta get in the ring.

Josh:

besides manufacturing, firearms and ammunition, the CSA also made money by selling their self-published books.

Josh:

Where in the outline their belief in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxons over other races, these sales were often accompanied by a reading list that contained titles dedicated to white supremacy and antisemitic.

Josh:

By then Ellison was already involved with influential members of other white supremacists and anti-government movements.

Josh:

For instance, he was acquainted with Richard Butler, the leader of the area nation and the identity Christian Church of Jesus Christ, Christian

Sean:

Jesus Christ.

Sean:

Christian

Josh:

Christian Church of Jesus Christ, Christian,

Sean:

We got to really beat it into you.

Josh:

How many times could we put Christian Christ in

Sean:

Christ Christ

Sean:

Christ.

Josh:

Christ Christ.

Josh:

Christ.

Sean:

I got to match

Sean:

it to the amount

Sean:

of Ks that they have tatted on their

Sean:

arm.

Josh:

they spell it with a K uh, Jesus.

Josh:

so this

Josh:

is a group based in Hayden lake, Idaho, and, Ellison also became friends with Robert Miles, the leader of the mountain church in Kolkatta mission.

Josh:

and a former grand dragon of the Klu Klux Klan.

Josh:

So there's your other case?

Sean:

Jeez.

Sean:

It's also crazy

Sean:

that they're called grand dragons.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Well, this all seems like, you know, like this cult has a wild name, you know, the covenant, it

Josh:

seems like a big game of,

Josh:

like a role-playing game,

Sean:

They think their Knights of the round table or some shit

Sean:

it's

Sean:

wild,

Josh:

and they're just,

Sean:

white

Josh:

fragile white

Josh:

males

Josh:

who can't put up with minorities being in their country, which doesn't make any sense.

Josh:

Cause like isn't the American dream move here and then

Sean:

yeah, aren't we

Josh:

successful.

Sean:

immigrants?

Sean:

No,

Josh:

indigenous peoples.

Sean:

except for the indigenous people who That's a whole other episode, how

Sean:

badly the United States treats them.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

So I know there's another, Marker.

Josh:

Where the U S government lines up with these guys as well?

Josh:

the treatment of the indigenous people.

Josh:

I'm sure they'd be on the same page there.

Josh:

so these three men had been introduced to each other during the July, 1983 area nation, Congress, and together, they created a manifesto wherein they vowed to destroy and overthrow the United States government, which they referred to as the Zionist occupied government,

Josh:

Just basically an area in nation.

Sean:

I mean, I would say, especially in the eighties, a good portion of the country, not even just the middle is area nation is a borderline

Sean:

still is sort of area nation a

Sean:

little bit.

Josh:

I want to look up

Josh:

American, demographics, 20, 21.

Josh:

so this is saying over 70%.

Sean:

holy moly.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Two.

Sean:

This is 2019.

Sean:

It says white alone percent.

Sean:

76.3.

Sean:

That's wild.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

We are still an area nation.

Sean:

Unfortunately only Mo I thought, cause Houston, I want to say Houston right now

Sean:

is like 40% white.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

when you think about America, you think of the cities, right?

Josh:

New York, LA, Houston, like they're very diverse places,

Josh:

but they're the cities, right?

Josh:

The cities are usually more left leaning, more accepting, which people feel more comfortable in these, these cities to immigrate to.

Josh:

Right.

Josh:

And it's where the most of the job opportunities are too.

Josh:

Whereas, you know, rural America, which makes up the majority of the country, Very white.

Josh:

So, it is ridiculous that they would claim that the United States is not, uh, a white nation.

Josh:

You know what I

Sean:

It's just like, especially in the eighties and nineties, like, even as, as into the future, as like friends or how I met your mother or other shows like that, very white, very white, almost

Sean:

season.

Sean:

And they were on for like 10 years or some shit

Sean:

it's uh,

Sean:

Very much, very white.

Sean:

I don't know what they're complaining about one black guy on a show or black people having their own show, not even really a whole, uh, at that point, I can't think of an all Hispanic or all Asian American family shows.

Sean:

I mean, what are these guys cry about?

Josh:

I honestly, yeah.

Josh:

I have no idea.

Josh:

It doesn't make any sense.

Josh:

And it's honestly, I feel a lot of the media pushes like the white race is being, driven out of existence, but which is not true at all.

Josh:

And who cares?

Josh:

Weight is just a concept.

Josh:

You know what I mean?

Josh:

Like Irish people and Italians were considered not white back in 19 hundreds, you know what I mean?

Josh:

Like they were considered not white and then they became white when it became a convenient to include them in the group, quote unquote.

Sean:

yeah,

Sean:

this census is going to be all fucked up.

Sean:

And like, I.

Sean:

dunno how many years, but you got to think we're in 2022, there's going to be a lot more mixed race marriages and things like that.

Sean:

Like, this is a, I don't know, it's fine.

Sean:

People will still, people still celebrate their ethnicity.

Sean:

all these people who are like 2% Italian, still love Italian culture.

Sean:

It's going to be the same way.

Sean:

You're I don't know You're not going to be erased.

Sean:

You're fine.

Sean:

Especially when you're still

Sean:

76% of the country,

Josh:

and what you just said makes sense.

Josh:

You can, you can be, I don't know if proud is maybe the right word, but you can, you can celebrate your heritage, like English heritage or Scottish heritage or German heritage.

Josh:

Maybe not German,

Sean:

they have

Sean:

good things.

Sean:

They just had

Sean:

a rough patch in the

Sean:

forties.

Sean:

You

Josh:

they got good beer.

Josh:

Good, good sausages.

Josh:

You know, they got some stuff.

Josh:

you can

Josh:

celebrate those things, but it's not a white thing.

Josh:

You know what I mean?

Josh:

It's a country, it's a country.

Josh:

It's not a race, like a race of people, you know,

Josh:

it's just, yeah, I don't, I, it doesn't

Josh:

make any sense that it will continue to boggle my mind.

Josh:

I think we can just go

Sean:

It's

Sean:

probably a good thing that we

Sean:

can't understand these people, you know?

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

You know, you feel more on the right side of things when You're like, I

Sean:

just can't even wrap my fucking head around this.

Josh:

it's okay.

Josh:

If, quote-unquote though white races extinct, because it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, people are people, we're all, people just love each other.

Josh:

Wow.

Josh:

We got a little off top.

Sean:

sorry there,

Josh:

no that's okay.

Josh:

that's that was a good, good conversation.

Josh:

so they, they wanted to create an independent area nation, which we talked about is Regus.

Josh:

according to the website, encyclopedia cyclopedia quote, the group planned to implement an elaborate computer linkage system for facilitating communication among the right wing extremist groups, including the covenant, the area nation Congress developed a

Josh:

And so they're going all out.

Josh:

among the buildings that the group targeted was the Alfred E Murray federal government complex in downtown Oklahoma city while their plan failed, the building was ultimately destroyed on April 19th, 1995.

Josh:

When army veteran named Timothy McVeigh set off in a huge amount of explosives killing 168 people and injuring hundreds more, he was executed a few years later for his role in what has since become known as the deadliest domestic terrorist attack in the United States?

Josh:

Yeah, that's a,

Josh:

it's

Sean:

Um,

Josh:

one.

Sean:

I'm glad they called a domestic terrorist and, mental health issues

Sean:

or some shit like that.

Josh:

uh, yeah, I'm glad to, I think they were more okay with calling things, what they were back in the day.

Josh:

You know what I mean?

Josh:

it wasn't as politicized.

Josh:

It was, uh, yeah, that was a terrorist attack.

Josh:

and I think

Josh:

with,

Sean:

bad

Sean:

thing.

Sean:

That was a definitely bad.

Josh:

yeah, he killed a

Josh:

lot of people.

Josh:

definitely terrorism.

Josh:

we're okay with calling it that, So for Ellison, his friends and their respective groups, the violent attacks that they had planned would set the stage for the revolutionary race war, which would ultimately result in white power and supremacy in the United States,

Josh:

But Sean, do you know who won't perform hate crimes in the name of the white race?

Sean:

Tell me who Josh

Josh:

the products and sponsors that support this podcast, they're not cool with white supremacy or terrorism.

Sean:

love to hear it.

Josh:

I hope

Sean:

Well, if they were, if they were cool that they would not be a sponsor of this great show,

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

It's probably m&ms or something, you know, that's trending now for their inclusive.

Josh:

they may

Josh:

have child slaves, but they're inclusive with

Sean:

good.

Sean:

God did not know about that.

Josh:

It's a, isn't it Mars?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

They're owned by Nestle.

Josh:

So definitely, definitely.

Josh:

Uh, anyway, I hope we're not sponsored by them, but here's some ads.

Josh:

And we are back.

Josh:

So thank you for Meyers for not shutting down this podcast.

Sean:

Thank you.

Sean:

I appreciate you.

Sean:

we, love m&ms

Sean:

right.

Josh:

yeah, peanut M and M's

Josh:

good, so back to, uh, it's racist.

Josh:

Group.

Josh:

so unbeknownst to the CSA, they had actually caught the eye of the FBI, who along with the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms had been monitoring them.

Josh:

the agencies made use of informants, such as Randall Ratter Ellison's former deputy who left the covenant to join the order.

Josh:

Another right wing Neo Nazis Nazis extremist group that was active between 1982 and 1984, Many white supremacists movements continued to hold it in high regards due to their successful crime sprees.

Josh:

Thanks to their network of informants.

Josh:

The FBI was well aware of Ellison's every move.

Josh:

One of the things that they were able to learn was that a CSA member had used a foot long knife to murder a woman whose body had been found by local authorities a few months earlier.

Josh:

They also learned about the paramilitary training sessions that the group was conducting as well as the stockpile of weapons and the fact that they had booby trap the entire perimeter of their compound.

Sean:

Goodness gracious.

Josh:

in the investigation files, the FBI described the members of the CSA as quote tied together by a non traditional religion, which includes faith healing, speaking in tongues and prophecy, which says the society will soon collapse in turmoil.

Josh:

And that the United States will suffer a collapse of economy or nuclear war.

Josh:

As a result, there will be chaos and a panicked mass will robe the country looting for food and protection.

Josh:

Those who are not prepared will be a threat to those who have been preparing the CSA will share what they have to the best of their abilities.

Josh:

But if people come to loot, the CSA will kill them in preparation for this, the group, stockpiles food and weapons and trains themselves in military and survival procedures.

Josh:

In addition to training themselves, the group offers survival training to the public, either on the settlement or at various locations throughout the United States.

Josh:

The training includes instructions on organization, survival techniques and paramilitary topics also taught our firearms and marksmanship, repelling foraging for food erection of such obstacles as punji sticks.

Josh:

And Barb wire to deter the looters, urban warfare, military field craft national forest, survival, home defense, Christian martial arts, Christian, military truths, nuclear survival, and tax protesting, and quote, what a course covers everything really.

Sean:

I, I hate how

Sean:

organized they are.

Josh:

It's just, they're just like, we need to be prepared for literally any kind of collapse of the, of the civilization, which is fair, but like, not under this, like survival are one thing.

Josh:

I have no problem with survivalist.

Josh:

I don't necessarily see the reason for it, but I respect the obsession to some degree, you know what I mean?

Josh:

but this is just racist, survivalism.

Sean:

yeah.

Josh:

You can, you better believe if they said they would share their food and supplies with anyone that needed it, for as long as they could, except for looters, as they said they would kill.

Josh:

And I have no, no doubt in my mind, Sean, that if you and I walked up compound

Sean:

Oh, I would be a

Sean:

leader.

Sean:

I'd be alluded for sure.

Josh:

you would be the leader

Josh:

and I would be just a helpless white guy looking for,

Sean:

Like this

Sean:

lunar is chasing this

Sean:

civilian.

Josh:

I'm behind you.

Josh:

Oh God.

Josh:

Yeah, that

Sean:

yeah, they're saying, you know, everything's open to the public training is open to the public.

Sean:

If I go I'm part of the training and I'm not

Sean:

getting trained, I'm part of the training, you know what I

Josh:

yeah,

Josh:

they're going to use their Christian martial arts on you.

Sean:

the target has arrived.

Josh:

so the FBI may have been gathering information on the CSA.

Josh:

However, it had no intentions on moving against the group that is until April 15th, 1985

Sean:

wait, hold up.

Sean:

No intentions of moving against the group.

Sean:

Did they not just have the

Sean:

domestic terrorist thing?

Sean:

Did that not happen?

Sean:

They forgot about

Josh:

So that wasn't them necessarily.

Josh:

It was someone a soul.

Josh:

Well, not as even an associate they'd planned to attack the building.

Josh:

And then it ended up getting attacked, after their plan kind of fell through

Josh:

it.

Josh:

Got it.

Josh:

Got attacked anyway.

Josh:

And I don't think they could make a connection between him and this group.

Josh:

They have done other terrorist things, which also they should have been arrested for.

Josh:

I agree.

Sean:

yeah.

Sean:

And Alison is just dropping things like, you know, the sword has been on sheet baby.

Sean:

It's time to go FBS like, well maybe, maybe not yet.

Sean:

Maybe, maybe we wait a little bit

Sean:

longer.

Josh:

Have you seen the FBI there?

Josh:

They're also very white shoe.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

I hate to see it.

Josh:

but yeah, I don't know.

Josh:

I mean, free speech goes a long way in America,

Sean:

yeah, you got a president, causing an insurrection.

Sean:

The

Josh:

yeah, exactly.

Sean:

the free speech is, uh, maybe too strong.

Josh:

And you can do whatever you want.

Josh:

people are going to clip that what you

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Asian man hates free speech.

Josh:

We're going to be a Tucker Carlson in a week.

Sean:

Jesus.

Sean:

Hey, all the more downloads baby

Josh:

Hell yeah.

Sean:

that I can get into a celebrity boxing match with a Tucker

Sean:

Carlson dinner or not.

Sean:

Well, I don't, I mean,

Sean:

ah, as cultural appropriating as Jake, Paul is, Yeah.

Sean:

he's not on my target.

Sean:

I'm looking at the George Zimmerman's the, uh,

Josh:

That's fair.

Josh:

Yeah.

Sean:

Greg Abbott's of the world that I

Sean:

want to box

Josh:

I don't know if I got that good box,

Josh:

but I like the call-out

Sean:

I'll box them regardless.

Josh:

that's step one of

Josh:

boxing, right?

Josh:

The call-outs.

Josh:

So

Josh:

you're out here on the right track.

Sean:

you got to build the

Sean:

anticipation for the money matches.

Josh:

Exactly.

Josh:

Exactly.

Josh:

so yeah, so the F bad didn't have any intentions of moving against the group, even though they probably should have, until April 15th, 1985, when a state trooper in Missouri pulled over a van that was

Josh:

the order is kind of associated with this group.

Josh:

the ex one of the ex members of the CSA is now in the order.

Josh:

So They work together a lot is what I'm saying.

Josh:

upon checking the Van's license plate, the state trooper discovered that Tate was a Neo Nazi who had a federal arrest warrant for charges related to illegal possession of firearms.

Josh:

But as he approached the vehicle tape suddenly burst out and opened fire with a submachine gun,

Josh:

killing him instantly Tate then left the scene, which sparked an intense nationwide manhunt that lasted for six days, carried out by state police from Missouri and Arkansas with support from an FBI SWAT team.

Josh:

During the manhunt, the FBI learned that Tate along with several other members of the order had sought refuge with the CSA.

Josh:

A search warrant was immediately obtained and on, uh, April 20th, 1985, approximately 200 law enforcement officers conducted a raid on the comp.

Josh:

But rather than the quick and easy operation that they had anticipated, they were instead met with fierce resistance from the group's members resulting in a standoff that lasted four days.

Josh:

So I don't know what they expected because they knew how many firearms they had and how willing they were to use them.

Josh:

So I don't know what they really expected, but on the final day of negotiations, the CSA, including Ellison peacefully surrendered themselves, which I'd call a bitch move,

Josh:

he's talks all this talk and

Josh:

he's

Josh:

just

Sean:

you, you were

Sean:

training for how long there Ellison.

Josh:

I mean, don't get me wrong.

Josh:

I'm glad no one died, but it kind of puts you down here.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

It's funny to talk

Sean:

about

Sean:

the sword has been unshaped.

Josh:

it's

Josh:

going

Josh:

back in,

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

It's now been sheet.

Sean:

Uh, we're good.

Sean:

We're

Sean:

good.

Josh:

It's actually like, so 200 law officers, right?

Josh:

They were ready to take on the American government and 200 law enforcement officers.

Josh:

that was all it took.

Josh:

So just goes to show you, these guys are usually usually bark and no bite, so once they were all arrested, the authorities searched the compound and found quote landmines in circling the perimeter, large number of illegal weapons and munitions,

Josh:

Along with the framework for an armored car that was under construction.

Josh:

They also discovered some 30 gallons of cyanide, which had been intended by a means of poisoning.

Josh:

The city supply at an unspecified location, and.

Sean:

Jeez.

Josh:

were about to do bio-terrorism, which is scary to think about that could probably be easy, pretty easily, pretty done.

Josh:

Pretty easily done.

Josh:

There we go.

Josh:

Got it.

Sean:

I believed in you the

Sean:

whole time, John.

Josh:

Thanks.

Josh:

I appreciate it, Sean.

Josh:

given this disturbing stockpile of weapons, it was clear that the CSA was more than ready to carry out the apocalyptic war that their leader had predicted that year members of the CSA were charged and found guilty of firebombing, the

Josh:

Both of which had, occurred in August 8th, 1983.

Josh:

They were also charged with destroying the natural gas pipeline near Fulton Arkansas Ellison ultimately received a 20 year prison sentence after being convicted on federal racketeering and weapons charge.

Josh:

So nothing to do with hate crime, which is

Sean:

I'm about to say 20 years is not enough for

Sean:

this man

Josh:

it's a man who's doing domestic terrorism

Sean:

You found the cyanide.

Sean:

That is enough, right?

Sean:

20

Sean:

years.

Josh:

should have been, well, I don't know life should've been, what it would be,

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

what it

Sean:

should have been.

Sean:

I'll let you get to, but I'm like

Sean:

is he, it's been 20 years

Josh:

we'll get to it.

Josh:

We'll get to

Sean:

yeah, We'll get to it

Sean:

I'm sure.

Josh:

in a bid to save himself.

Josh:

He became an informant for the FBI in 1986, providing them with information about the activities of the other extremist groups that he had been previously allied with.

Josh:

Thanks to him, which I'm not really giving him.

Josh:

Thanks.

Josh:

But 14 people were charged with sedation for participating in the 1983 area, nations, Congress.

Josh:

there were some punishment for that Congress, thank God.

Josh:

But despite the mountain of evidence against all of the accused, the prosecution failed to win their case, simply because the jury believed that Ellison wasn't a plausible witness since he stood to benefit a lot

Josh:

You know what I

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Who are these jurors?

Sean:

We got, we got a question.

Sean:

These jurors too, if that's, uh, not enough evidence for them.

Josh:

They were definitely peers of his, if you know

Josh:

what I mean?

Sean:

That's what I'm saying.

Josh:

Oh God.

Josh:

So, Ellison did however, managed to successfully petition the government for a more lenient punishment, which led to a sentence being reduced to five years.

Josh:

So there you go, Sean, there's your American justice system at work?

Sean:

Flawed,

Sean:

Flawed,

Josh:

there were people with.

Sean:

much longer than five years.

Josh:

what's longer than five years

Josh:

and it's legally in many places where they're arrested

Sean:

Yeah.

Josh:

so he was finally released in 1987, after he cut a deal with the prosecution to testify against high ranking members of the area nations afterward, he moved to LOM city in Oklahoma, another Christian identity community that had been founded in 1973 by a man named Robert Miller.

Josh:

He ended up marrying Miller's 26 year old daughter, Angie, which he's like old at this point.

Sean:

that's all I'm

Sean:

saying like 20 there's No, way.

Josh:

No, he's, uh, he's,

Josh:

pretty old or not old, but you know what I mean?

Josh:

He's old he's way

Sean:

It's not.

Sean:

Yeah, he's not close to 26.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

There's there's an age gap.

Josh:

In 2020, the Anti-Defamation league center on extremism found that incidents of white supremacist propaganda had reached an all time high, perhaps fueled by the Trump administration, anti-black lives matter protests and the COVID-19 pandemic, countless groups have begun

Josh:

In fact, the FBI reported that more than 8,000 hate crimes were carried out in 2020 alone affecting over 11,000 victims.

Josh:

These disturbing figures are proof that the covenant, the sword and the arm of the Lord may have been eliminated.

Josh:

However, the ideologies that is disposed, unfortunately remains thriving and widespread.

Josh:

And that is James Ellison and the CSA.

Josh:

I'm not going to say their full name cause it's too long.

Sean:

And fuck them.

Sean:

who cares?

Josh:

And who cares?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Fuck them.

Josh:

Um, so,

Josh:

initial thoughts on all of that, Sean?

Sean:

Yeah, I like that last section where it's like, you know, perhaps It was Trump, you know, perhaps it might be, because the, the leader of our nation is openly making fun of disabled people, making fun of

Sean:

But, you know, maybe, maybe that's the reason why, who knows, who knows.

Sean:

Perhaps

Sean:

it could

Sean:

be, it could be, a lot of things.

Sean:

There's a lot of factors who knows,

Sean:

Ellison seems like a real piece of shit.

Sean:

Uh, he got out, you know, I'm glad he ratted all those other groups out, but, I hate that, he gets to be rewarded

Josh:

Yeah.

Sean:

in any

Sean:

type of

Sean:

way.

Sean:

It's like a D he's like one of those people like Jay Z, I think, I forget what song he said, but he was like, the streets are dead.

Sean:

you're killing all these like prominent black artists, but then, you know, George Zimmerman gets to walk around and like,

Sean:

that's a good point.

Sean:

That's a good point.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

JC has got some good points, man.

Sean:

He's, he's

Sean:

a very smart man that Jay

Sean:

Z, that Sean

Sean:

Carter,

Josh:

he may have cheated on Beyonce, which does make him dumb.

Sean:

if, if you JZ, you got to Look in the mirror and be like, you know, look at Beyonce.

Sean:

My guy,

Sean:

Look at

Sean:

yourself.

Sean:

My

Josh:

look at yourself, you know,

Sean:

ha

Josh:

you're winning, Just don't fuck it up.

Sean:

there's no need to mess this up.

Sean:

My guy just stay the course.

Josh:

Kind of a depressing ending because it's not a, you know, usually I'm like, oh, they're dead.

Josh:

The Colts ended.

Josh:

You know,

Sean:

Oh,

Josh:

uplifting

Sean:

yeah.

Sean:

This one is white supremacy, still a thing.

Sean:

Still a huge issue.

Sean:

In fact, two years ago, bugged out of domestic.

Josh:

it's, if anything has gone up with, COVID I think,

Josh:

and not just like, you know, obviously there's, hate crimes against African Americans, but Asian Americans and, Hispanic Americans.

Josh:

And it's definitely climbing and with social media, like continuing to push people, you know,

Sean:

yeah.

Sean:

Promote

Sean:

these voices.

Josh:

Yeah.

Sean:

That great.

Sean:

Especially Facebook taking forever to like, get like fact checking, you know, fact check the news sources.

Sean:

They got a bunch of confused, old white people looking at, I hate saying fake news because that's what it is.

Sean:

But like the, the man has, you know, it's, It's fake articles and things that are nonsense, whether they know it can, can I get how it can confuse

Sean:

people?

Josh:

Oh, yeah.

Josh:

It's easy to confuse people when you can, pour thousands or millions of dollars into advertisements to push to, older people's Facebook pages and just, I've talked about this many times on this podcast, but you give them the drip feed of enough, hate speech advocate people.

Josh:

Uh, you give them enough right-wing content, I'll say far right wing.

Josh:

You're going to start converting a lot of those people, you know, if they keep seeing it on their timeline, they keep seeing friends share it.

Josh:

family members share it.

Josh:

They're going to start being indoctrinated into that, that belief system.

Josh:

And for some reason, believing that the white races as being extinct, for no other reason than some Facebook guy said, or Fox news.

Josh:

but anyway, we'll, we'll get off of that topic.

Josh:

It is a, topic that should be brought up more, I think.

Josh:

And, and so I'm, I'm glad we can bring, bring a little bit of light to it, even if it's just, just, you know, this podcast, but,

Josh:

, Before we end off the episode, Sean, it's time to do call critiques.

Josh:

That's where we critique the cult that we have just talked about.

Josh:

The covenant, the sword, and the of the Lord.

Josh:

What would you give that at a five star rating?

Sean:

this is zero out of five for me, dog,

Sean:

a lot of bark, zero bite.

Sean:

It's not like I would want to rate a cult higher for following through and, you know, hurting more people, uh, in the long run.

Sean:

It is good that they bitched out and the guy was a, a rat and ratted out all these other organizations.

Sean:

But, uh, you know, just a strictly basing the writing off of, uh, affective in.

Sean:

I don't, I don't know.

Sean:

How do you recall?

Sean:

It's

Sean:

it's hard to recall, but.

Josh:

It is hard.

Josh:

It's fun.

Josh:

It's

Josh:

fun.

Sean:

fun.

Sean:

It is fun.

Sean:

I feel like a majority of any time, I guess here, I'll be like, It's a big zero out of five for me, dog.

Sean:

Uh,

Sean:

all bad.

Josh:

You're not alone.

Josh:

A lot of people do that.

Josh:

I'm going to give it a 0.5 just for the name.

Josh:

I like the name.

Sean:

It is.

Josh:

it's a fun name.

Sean:

It is.

Sean:

like, uh, like, uh, Ooh, that could be like a

Sean:

cool Guild name in a D and D

Sean:

and then you're like,

Josh:

a D and D campaign.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

You'd be like,

Josh:

oh, I want to join that group.

Josh:

And then you realize what it's about.

Josh:

And then you're like,

Josh:

oh, I wanna stop that group.

Josh:

That's my new mission.

Sean:

those are the enemy.

Sean:

I

Josh:

yeah, yeah.

Josh:

yeah.

Josh:

I'm going to take over that group and, make it accepting to everyone.

Sean:

yeah,

Sean:

we're reclaiming the sword.

Josh:

reclaim, we're gonna, we're going to shoot that fucking sword.

Sean:

Yeah.

Josh:

so as all the reasons you said they're terrible ideology, they're, confusing messages.

Josh:

Uh, and just, just a hateful message, which is definitely not.

Josh:

If there is a God, definitely not what he would espouse.

Josh:

so just terrible all around.

Josh:

So you're, spot on with that zero.

Josh:

name gives it a little bit for me.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

And also this feels like big, big time Twitter fingers before Twitter, You know what I'm saying?

Sean:

Like talk all that shit.

Sean:

and then as soon as you get a whiff of a wait a second, this could all go wrong.

Sean:

You give up immediately is, is some, some keyboard warriors before

Sean:

keyboards.

Josh:

That's fair.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

You catch some heat and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Josh:

I'm just kidding bro.

Josh:

Just kidding.

Sean:

a second.

Sean:

The cyanide is just for fun.

Sean:

It's just for

Sean:

fun.

Josh:

yeah, so terrible people, terrible cult, zero out of zero to five do not recommend.

Josh:

so that is the episode for today, but before we leave.

Josh:

Sean, please tell us about shots and thoughts.

Josh:

You don't have to tell, but it's about Reddit on Wiki, but you can, if you want to, let Fred know what chats and thoughts is about and, what they can expect maybe for season four,

Sean:

yeah.

Sean:

Uh,

Josh:

season four planned out.

Sean:

to be honest, we don't, uh, but, shots of thoughts is, uh, essentially, me and my two good friends since childhood, there's a lot of stuff we don't know.

Sean:

And we, we, we made this show as a way to educate ourselves on things that, you know, as a.

Sean:

As adults, we probably should know how to do or should know about or things like that.

Sean:

So every week we learn a new subject and, uh, the second half of the show.

Sean:

we take shots and play games, and then we make the drunkest person give a recap of what we just learned.

Sean:

And, uh, yeah, we come out every, every week unless I'm getting married, but that's, uh, hopefully my last wedding.

Sean:

So hopefully we're, more consistent from now on, but yeah, we learn things.

Sean:

We play games,

Sean:

we take shots.

Sean:

It's a good time.

Josh:

Yeah, great show.

Josh:

And, uh, it's a hilarious game you can play is, uh, is to take a shot along with them.

Josh:

Every time Brian says something to him,

Sean:

Oh.

Sean:

And it happens quite a bit.

Josh:

I love Ryan.

Josh:

He's the funniest fucking, oh my God.

Josh:

His rap.

Josh:

It gets me every time his, uh, his

Josh:

hair wrap or whatever it was, the

Josh:

mullet Rab

Sean:

yeah.

Sean:

Well, we have a game Fred, where we do freestyle raps and, you know, he will always start the freestyle rap with so much confidence.

Sean:

And then when it comes to the punchline, the

Sean:

shyest,

Sean:

yes.

Sean:

So scared every

Sean:

time

Josh:

It's So funny.

Josh:

So definitely go check out shots and thoughts.

Josh:

Um, if you love hearing Sean and I, you can hear us on Reddit on Wiki.

Josh:

we're accompanied by our good friend, John.

Josh:

There were.

Josh:

Just throws in puns like the jujitsu pawn I threw in, uh,

Sean:

John would love that type of thing.

Josh:

he would love that he's

Josh:

gonna, I think he's going to chuckle along with that when he listens to this episode.

Josh:

So, you can also go listen to Reddit on Wiki, wherever you get this podcast, as well as shots and thoughts.

Josh:

So thank you, Sean, for coming on.

Josh:

before we cap it off, if you want to support this podcast, you can do so by giving us a rating on apple podcasts, pod, chaser, Spotify, and good pods, share it with your friends, family, whoever you want to indoctrinate into the cult of Fred.

Josh:

And, if you really love this show and want to get it a week early ish, we're recording this on Monday.

Josh:

It's supposed to go tomorrow, probably will not, but it's about a week early.

Josh:

You'll get it.

Josh:

you can go to our Patrion, the cultivate Patrion podcast network.

Josh:

So if you go to.

Josh:

Patrion.com/cultivate podcast network.

Josh:

That's cultivates spelled C U L T I V.

Josh:

The number eight podcast network.

Josh:

you can get, content from this podcast ad free a week early, as well as retinol Wiki.

Josh:

Ad-free a week early.

Josh:

And our bonus content that we do once a month, sometimes twice a month, if we are feeling the feeling of doing it, uh, you can also get a shots and thoughts, back catalog there.

Josh:

as well as some of our other podcasts on the network, you can get content from them as well.

Josh:

So once again, that's patrion.com/cultivate podcast network.

Josh:

if you really want to support the show and get some awesome bonus content as well.

Josh:

Early content.

Josh:

So thank you Fred for listening this week.

Josh:

Thank you Sean, for coming on will see you next time.

Sean:

Thank you for having me on Josh.

Sean:

This is a lot of fun.

Sean:

See you guys see You Fred later.

Sean:

See Fred later.

Sean:

See,

Josh:

You Fred laters.

Josh:

See Fred's later.

Josh:

I

Sean:

See

Sean:

Fred's later.

Josh:

I haven't, I haven't figured

Josh:

out the pluralization of Fred

Sean:

gotta be like, what is it?

Sean:

Yeah,

Josh:

now

Josh:

Fredericks, when I'm angry at them,

Sean:

Oh, no.

Josh:

hasn't happened yet, but we'll, we'll save that for when they revolt,

Sean:

The day you turn yourself, king is the day that a Frederick will be.

Josh:

the king of the Fred's.