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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

manufacturers, talk, manufacturing, organization, work, resources, pa, abby, Ronn, industrial, team, automation, pennsylvania, vetted, technology, journey, partners, scott, people, government

00:00

Scott. Welcome to the Industrial Talk Podcast with Scott. MacKenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots and let's go. Hello there, industrial

00:21

professionals. Thank you very much for joining Industrial Talk and thank you again for your continued support of this platform that celebrates fragment you, celebrates you. Industrial professionals, you're bold, you're brave, you dare greatly, you innovate. You are changing lives, and therefore are changing the world. Each and every day, we are having a conversation around manufacturing. On this episode, we're talking to Abby, we're talking to Ronn, and they are with an organization called Team Pennsylvania. The website is Team pa.com but if you put in team Pennsylvania, you'll be able to find them with no problem. We're talking about solutions. We're talking about resources that help manufacturers truly succeed. So let's get cracking. I'm all in anything, and I mean anything, that helps manufacturers succeed, especially in this ever changing an evolving world, big time. I'm all in. Call me, I don't know, call me a Gomer for all of this stuff. I love it. It was a great conversation, by the way. Fantastic website, so you need to go out there. Fantastic website. Before we get in the conversation, we're going to make this intro relatively short, I'm going to continue to pump. Do you have a podcast? Or has have a desire to have a podcast, you need to contact me. Go out to Industrial Talk. You need to put that podcast out on Industrial Talk. We need as much information, we need as much collaboration as we possibly can. So that means go out to Industrial Talk, reach out to me. You have technology. Yeah, you have technology. You want to amplify that technology. You want to open up opportunities. You need to talk to me. You need to go out to Industrial Talk and click Connect, and you'll be able to talk to me. It's easy peasy lemon squeezy. No big deal. But the platform itself is is growing to be one of those platforms that all provides and allows industrial professionals the resources they need, especially in all of the stuff that's happening, all the innovations that's taking place, you need to be a part of that you need to collaborate. Because I always say, I always say, educate, yes, collaborate, yes, innovate. You. It's a must, and you need to be able to talk to individuals that are doing that. All right. Team Pennsylvania in the hot seat, talking to Abby, talking to Ronn. Make a note of this. Ronn has 2n R, o, n, n, make a note. Ronn court and Abby Cantor with the K Cantor Smith, all the contact information is out on Industrial Talk. So again, collaborate. They want to talk to you in a big way. So let's make it happen. Enjoy the conversation. Abby Ronn, welcome to Industrial Talk. Thank you very much for finding time in your busy schedule to talk to the best listeners in the whole universe. That's big. How you guys doing real well, excellent, excellent listeners. We're going to be talking a little bit about a organization called Team Pennsylvania. We're going to have all the contact and all the links out there on Industrial Talk, but it is really central to manufacturing and some real solutions to help manufacturers achieve that whole digital dream and collaborate with individuals that have succeeded at it, and then some, though. So it's about information, and I'll I always say it's about education, collaboration and innovation, and these two individuals embody that. So let's get cracking. All right, Abby, for the listeners out there, give us a little 411 on who Abby is.

04:21

Yeah, I'm happy to Scott. Thanks so much for having us. I have been working at Team PA for quite a while, and I'm proud to be our president and CEO. It is an organization, nonprofit organization, that's been around since 97 and it's really all about collaboration, collaboration between government, between business, and it's all for the sake of Pennsylvania's economy. One of our key topics, because key to Pennsylvania's economy is manufacturing, and so we host the manufacturing competitiveness collaborative. It's a whole collaboration of manufacturers, business leaders. It's. Is everything from government leaders and organized labor and folks from education institutions and really runs the gamut, but at the end of the day, we're all really committed to the health of manufacturing, and so that's a little bit about kind of what I get to do on a day to day basis.

05:16

Love the noble cause that's important. Definitely, yeah, that definitely sacrificial, that's for sure. All right, Ronn, you're now thanks

05:26

for having me and Abby, always great to work with you. So Scott, I lead a company. I'm a president company called Dunmore. And Dunmore, we manufacture specialty films, foils, tapes, textiles, specialized coatings. We were a mid sized manufacturer, classic industrial B to B manufacturing, doing the things that people count on, but don't know where they're made. And we're outside of Philadelphia, a place called Bristol, Pennsylvania. And unfortunately, I lead, I lead a team of about 150 people and who come in every single day doing the mobile work and manufacturing.

05:55

I love it. As I look at your website real quick. It's under team PA, right. Do you guys go by that? Or team Pennsylvania? What Abby? What is, what's,

06:07

you know, Team PA, Team Pennsylvania. Our full name is actually team Pennsylvania foundation, but yeah, Team pa.com, and, yeah, yeah, you know, we it's a all about the fact that Pennsylvania really needs a team and so, so that's us. Well,

06:27

now you touch upon something. What do you mean by team? What? What if I'm a manufacturer, and I've got my damn manufacturer hat on, and I decide, well, I need to go out to Team pa.com How about that for a plug and say, I want to get, What? What? What do I get?

06:43

Well, if you're manufacturer, you know, there's probably a couple different ways that you might want to work with the organization, the main one being this manufacturing competitiveness, collaborative, which is really, you know, there's no barrier to entry. Anybody who cares about manufacturing in Pennsylvania's economy, they they too, can participate. So we need on a semi regular basis throughout the year, but we really try to think of, you know, what is it that can't be done alone? What is going to require collaboration? So there's plenty of programs that government tries to put out there to help manufacturers, and there's plenty of things that manufacturers are doing every day to try to figure out how to how to help themselves. The idea, though, is that there's some stuff that really requires everybody to work together and how technology is integrated into manufacturing. We're working on a lot of that, trying to figure out, how do we help manufacturers do that, do that well, and kind of put lots of folks in the room to make sure that they can actually do that. So we so that's one way the manufacturers can participate. But the other thing is, just the organization is itself a public private partnership. It's government and industry working together for the health of Pennsylvania's economy, on more than just manufacturing, but in lots of different areas. And so that's one of the great things about working with Ronn, is I get to work with him both on the manufacturing collaborative, but he's also a member of our Board of Directors representing that private sector on our board, the perspective of a manufacturer and a mid sized manufacturer that's located in the southeast. But we have different size companies, different backgrounds, different all kinds of things, and we're co chaired by whoever the sitting governor is, regardless of their political party. And have other public sector leaders. And then we also have the leaders of business and industry sitting on our board. And so it's so those are kind of the two different ways. There's there's the work that people can actually be involved in, and then there's also just the governance of our of our nonprofit organization,

08:34

I gotta tell you, Ronn, i i bristle when I start hearing the term getting involved with government and going through that, that whole series of red tapes, and I don't understand in the lexicon, and I don't know it would seem to me I understand the challenges that are taking place within this whole digital economy, and how I can benefit as a manufacturer, and I don't think I could do it alone. It would seem to me that you, being on the manufacturing side, working with Team PA, that whole government side, helped navigate those waters. Does it work? Yeah,

09:12

absolutely. So Scott, let me tell you a couple things, right? Manufacturers have a bias towards action and and I've had lots of opportunities to work, and I'm gonna say, sit in these kind of slow moving kind of like, oh, not the same meeting again. And so when Abby and I first started talking about my involvement here, I'm like, you gotta promise me one thing you have. You have a bias towards action. I don't want to just show up for four meetings a year. Have the same thing and kick it around. I don't have time for that my I've got to be fRonntline, as I say at Kemba, getting work done. So if this is a place where I can go roll my sleeves and actually move things forward and see them move forward, and for the benefit of the state and for other manufacturers I'm in, and she made that commitment to me that that was going to happen. And so what I have here and where, how I see a team, PA, is that there's. Really power of this kind of public long term. We've got to do big things, big moonshots. Takes a long time, but then there's this whole like, immediacy that manufacturers have. Like, I got to get stuff moving. We got to get some results. Like, I don't care how small the victory is, but man, I want a victory team. Pa, is the intersection between those two ways of working. So it can't just be short term. I got to get something done and checked with the box. It's got to have some longer term, deeper benefit to the state and to the manufacturers and state of PA. Team. Pa is that perfect spot in between. It's not the gears, it's the it's the grease between the gears. It keeps things moving. And without it, it just doesn't happen, it, does

10:41

it? You painted the heck of a picture just because I was thinking, yeah, yeah, I want to keep moving. Yes, I'm already agitated, and I don't even have any coffee. I'm drinking water, right? But I'm I understand exactly where you you that that was perfectly stated. Now how Abby, here's the here's the other thing. I as a manufacturer, I'm going to continue to go down down that road. I'm not as i i stayed at a Holiday Inn, so I feel like I am a manufacturer. But I, I, I know I need this. I know I I get on the internet. The internet says I need to digitize My, my, you know, line, or whatever it is. I get all the information. How do you sort of work with me? Because I have no bandwidth, I need to get things done. I have no bandwidth. I had How. How do we get this done through this collaboration?

11:40

Yeah, so we put out there a resource called factory of the future, and Pa manufacturingfuture.com and you can get to it on Team pa's website too.

11:51

Hold on. I want to make sure, yeah, that was the other URL I was looking at, because I saw something about the future of manufacturing. So yeah, gotcha, yeah, that'll be out there, and it doesn't talk too. So just

12:05

Yeah, PA, manufacturing, future.com, and and that resource, you know, look, there's, there is nothing easy about that. It's not easy for anybody when they want to figure out, how do you integrate technology, and especially to what Ronn was saying earlier, you want to be very action oriented about it. And so what you don't want to do is you don't want to have to reinvent the wheel. You don't want to have to figure things out from scratch, and you don't want to waste your time and resources, which are precious, on things that are not necessarily going to yield the biggest result for what you're actually trying to accomplish. But what we wanted to do is make sure that this idea of how you adopt and integrate technology is actually accessible. It's doable that you're learning from others and that you're identifying resources actually within your region to go do it. So the way that we approached it was we wanted to have a resource that was free, online, easy to access, and that, then you have to kind of start by just figuring out, Well, where am I? What do I want to do so all of the different ways that that somebody might approach technology adoption in their shop. This is where we really tapped to this wide network of manufacturers to make sure that we were being thoughtful about all the different ways somebody might do that everything from, you know, analytics to cybersecurity to robotics, so this way they can figure out where to start, and also who's going to help them locally.

13:31

Yeah, see, I got to tell you, I don't want any new cuss words, but it's just when you when you talked about cybersecurity, I thought, oh, that's another one. That's another topic that nobody wants to talk about, but they have to figure it out, you know, so and everybody's

13:47

got to figure it out, everybody.

13:51

But the reality is, is that you better do it, and you better find those those organizations or individuals or companies that you can collaborate to make it happen, because there's a lot of failure that happens out there, right there? Ronn,

14:04

yeah, well, in academia, it's called plagiarism. In business, it's called best practice. And so trying to find best practices, right? It's key of every manufacturer, how do I find best practice around a particular topic? And that could be an arduous journey, because you're typically depending on this kind of small circle, and of your your kind of, your known entities. And if you want to do it, next thing you know, you find yourself signing up a contract with a with some sort of consulting company with with some sort of nebulous result. And what's the beauty of this site is like this, this, this whole resource was built by manufacturers, right? So we're at the table talking like going through this iterative process code. That's not how we work. That isn't how we source information. That isn't, although that looks like a great idea, that isn't how we work as manufacturers. So we had lots of conversations around that structure, and it was really interesting to have large manufacturers in that meeting, in those meetings, and. Smaller manufacturers. And actually, like, I'm going to say, we're we have to, we have to eat our own cooking. So we were taking this model and saying, how does this apply? And Scott, why I think that's important is that, like, so this organization that I'm leading right now, I've only been here two years, had done more, right and and so my background is automation. But as this started, I'm like, You know what? I am not going to come in and prescribe how to automate it in this organization. I'm going to actually use this resource, which we're developing, drop it on the people in this organization and say, does this work for you? And right away they all lit up and go, This is what we've been looking for. So I think it's really important, because it can be really intimidating if I say, Oh, how are we going to keep our machines protected from the the the internet. What happens like, how do you do that? If you're a small manufacturer, you've got to have best practice cases. And that's what this does. This immediately connects you to best

15:52

practices. Yeah, that that's great. And you've been at it for at that done more for two

15:59

years, right? I've been in manufacturing for near 30 and

16:03

we go to the same barber, by the way,

16:07

17:05

love that. So I'm on the I'm a manufacturer. I'm looking at the resources. I take the little quiz that you have out on on PA, future manufacturing.com is that, did I get that

17:18

one? EA, manufacturingfuture.com Yeah, flip it

17:22

around. Great. Take note. Listener, take note. And then I take that quiz, and then I go through and I find I sort of orient myself where I'm at from that on this journey. I review the information, I start feeling good about it, feeling a little confident, and then I need to talk to somebody. Can I just sort of dial up team PA and say, I'm here. I need some help. I need a human person. Can I do that there? Abby, yeah. I

17:58

mean, you can, but I think that oftentimes you're better off with people who are in your region, who are tapped into the different resources that are available locally. And so what we wanted to do was also have almost a little matchmaking component and say, Okay, who within the area in which I live and operate my my manufacturing facility, where can I go for if I needed to, if I needed help with this kind of strategy, or this or that or the other. So there's a list of different organizations that are out there, and everybody's kind of aware sometimes, that there are people out there who are willing to help, and actually really can be a hands on resource. And so what this tries to do is also, depending on where you've identified that you are in that process. And to Ronn's point, you know, maybe you, you are at the point of kind of, you know, where you've talking about robotics and cobotics and that kind of thing. Well, who then in my area can actually help me do that. And so, so we it is, it is much more customized and directs you in that area.

18:58

Okay, I got to jump in. Do you vet these individuals? So if I'm in Pittsburgh and and I I get, I get these recommendations down here, and I contact Acme robot, and AC remote robot will say, well, where'd you get our information? Well, I go at the team PA, and I got this, and they understand all that I'm not. You're not sending me to somebody that hangs a shingle, and now all of a sudden I'm, you know, robot expert, which I'm

19:29

not. Oh no, we're not. We're not sending people to just random resources. And in fact, we've worked with a number of different local organizations to get that pre vetted list. So you're talking about organizations that really have some national cred. Even, you know, you mentioned Pittsburgh and I was talking robotics, one of the resources that then you'd be directed to is the arm Institute, the advanced robotics for Manufacturing Institute. This is funded by the federal government, and a hub that's not. Known nationally and even globally. And so we're talking about resources that are there for for support at different stages and different processes, different points of technology integration, and some of them are helping more than manufacturers. So these are organizations that not just are vetted, but they're thinking about all different kinds of things. So the Ben Franklin Technology Partners, they can help with financial support and strategy planning and technical expertise that's a nationally recognized model of early stage capital. And you've got manufacturing partners that exist across the state that are also being leveraged here. So so these are, these are vetted, trusted partners that maybe some manufacturers aren't even aware are right in their region. And so hopefully this, this helps direct to the people who can, who can assist with that.

20:49

So to Dunmore, you, you've been on this journey. You've been at Dunmore for a couple of years. How long you've been with Team pa Ronn,

20:57

couple years,

20:58

couple of years. So you've, you've taken this journey. You're, you're a living example of of that. Tell us. Tell us what you've gained for how, how has done more, improved.

21:12

Great question. What we have is, I've got young engineers within this organization who are keeping our equipment running every single day. And as this, as this resource developed, and they had questions. Rather than me saying, Oh, I know, like, I know a guy, the metaphorical like, I know, I'd be like, I don't know. Why don't you do a favor? I said this because this, this website, was kind of up in its kind of infancy, kind of an abated mode. And I was like, I would do me a favor. Why don't you pop onto the website and see what you can find out. And they'd come back and they would say, like, oh, Ronn, there's an organization right here, you know, in southeast PA. I'm like, I'm like, Yeah, go for it. And so what happened was I could see real time that happening now. What has happened is that our organization came back to me and said, Ronn, based on what we've learned from using these resources having these conversations, I'll give a plug out to dvirc Abby, as one of those organizations, we've gone ahead and restructured our manufacturing and our maintenance team. So they came back right away and said, you know, maintenance and engineering need to be they need to be split. And I'm like, Yeah, beautiful. Now that didn't that wasn't me prescribing that. That was them on that journey through our webs, through this website, through this resource, to get to a local partner who said, Are you sure you're structured in the right way to go on this automation journey? We've literally just restructured the organization to allow us to spend more time, effort and resources into the automation parts process by unbundling the day to day maintenance like I'm so busy fighting fires, yeah, I don't have time to do automation. Okay, let's put the firefighters in one place, and let's put the fire prevention department someplace else. Let's go ahead and create that. They did that on their own through the use of this resource. I'm like, Yep, this is working. This is exactly what needs to happen. Wow. Go

23:05

ahead. Go ahead. I

23:07

was just gonna say there's a whole other dimension to this too, which is that a lot of technology integration can be expensive. Doesn't have to be, but sometimes it can be. And one thing that came out of this because we're not we are talking manufacturers. We're talking all these other partners too. Those partners include things like, you know, academic institutions, education institutions and banks. And so we had a really interesting meeting where there were few, you know, senior leaders of banks who were on these calls with us, who said, as we're vetting these tools and everything, who said, Look, this is how it's helpful for us too. Because sometimes a manufacturer will come to us and they want to integrate such and such technology, if they're using this as this framework to understand where they are, where they want to go, that they've got their strategy, they've identified some resources of how they're going to implement they're thinking about this in a much more comprehensive way than maybe they would have otherwise, and they said that's really going to be that's the kind of information we need to know, that this organization's ready to make that change, that they're going to make good use of our funds to have their operations up and running differently. So I think what's also interesting is we're getting feedback and input and bringing in different partners in the fold in a way that's going to help manufacturers, so that when a manufacturer does go to their bank and they kind of have some extra umph behind what they're asking for, there's reason they can answer why in lots of different areas that might have otherwise been hard to access, we're hoping that that just positions manufacturers better to feel not just more confident, but actually even better, likely, more likely to secure funding that they are more likely to have resources to support in that implementation. And we're starting to see that come to fruition too.

24:48

I like that, Ronn to you, where are you at on your journey? Given given that whole process, I can I can see where I'm at. I'm level set number two or. Three or five, or where do you see it going? Paint that picture now? Yeah.

25:04

So like any manufacturer on anywhere between a one to five, right? Because that was one of the things we discovered. It's not really stair step. It's us clearly defined. So some areas of my organization are moving more quickly, but let me give you a really good example, right? So we've got this whole kind of get inspired. We were kind of beyond that. And then, like, are we organized the right way? So, like, Okay, I just talked a little bit about consumer reorganization, and then we talked about, kind of the reskilling of our existing work and also attracting and retaining the next generation of manufacturing talent. So where that's they're all like kind of different speeds in terms of my even inside my small organization. So our HR department has looked at this and said, We've got to rethink about how we attract and retain talent. I am no longer looking for hourly rate labor. I'm looking for people who are curious mindset, interested in continuous improvement, people who are willing to really start to invest in themselves. And we're, we're starting now talking about things like, you know, training, training centers, with inside our own organization, through, with help from the out, from from our public partners, to kind of establish, like, how do I build this resource within my organization, which is hard skills, right? Like, you know, I need to teach these hard skills, but it's also going to be evolving all the time, so it's not one and done. So So to answer your question, Scott, I'm kind of one through six right, where I am in the organization, but that's true with manufacturing, right? Some lines or some lines are further ahead, some lines are kind of older. Doesn't mean they're less important or more important. They're just on different phase of the journey. It's just like that as an organization.

26:39

Wow, boy. If

26:41

that whole manufacturer manufacturing thing doesn't turn work out for you, Ronn, you've got a great opportunity in podcasting

26:49

that I'm never leaving manufacturers. Yeah, I don't play it's in my DNA.

26:53

How does TPA Abby deal with the velocity of change that exists out there, I and and keep current. It could be, you run the risk of maybe being static and not current, because everything's happening so fast. How does, how does teampa address that? You

27:13

know, I think that there's a lot that is moving quickly, and one of our, I think, superpowers, is that we are a small organization that's sitting at a pretty high altitude. And so it allows us to be really nimble. It allows us to actually work with really big players that sometimes are slow moving, even if they don't want to be, you know, sometimes big companies, big government, they just they naturally have a bureaucratic element to them, and they also can't necessarily absorb risk as easily as a small organization, sometimes we're better positioned then to move a little quickly, to pivot when we need to, to have a better feedback loop where our team is talking to manufacturers, is talking to business leaders, is talking to policymakers, so we're really keeping current, and then we're able to pivot When we need to. We're able to kind of change course. And yet, at the same time, we actually really have to balance that with the fact that we're playing the long game. So how do we be action oriented? Pivot when we need to be dynamic, be nimble, all of that. And yet, at the end of the day, if we're kind of playing the long game. The root might be really circuitous, but that probably the long term vision doesn't shift that much. And so I think that ability to be responsive to continually kind of change and learn and grow and innovate and iterate, it's really important, but it's only as good as kind of the active communication that we have with all of our partners who are doing this work day in and day out, wherever they are. And so for us, we're keeping our eye on the long game while we're really moving quickly in the in the short term.

28:52

Scott, I gotta jump in here, because Abby's too humble. Abby's too humble to say it the quality of talent that Abby has surrounded herself with as a leader of that organization, I cannot say enough good things about that. There's a diversity of thought, a diversity of experiences in that organization, which, for me, as a manufacturer, really powerful people that have been there for a long time, with really deep knowledge of the history. And then there's, there's lots of like, kind of like, I'm gonna say, new ideas, new perspectives, new ways of thinking thing, of thinking about things. So there's this really important dynamic that she's developed, which is like, hey, it's not all about the new stuff. It's like, we have to be true to our roots and who we are and what really matters, and guiding principles and all of that. And then the people that she's put in that organization are like, they're drivers. They are they're all there's not a single person I work with in that organization that is not a driver. They're there because they want to be, not because they have to be there.

29:44

That's a good, good quality to have, especially when you're dealing with manufacturers and all the balls that you've got to sort of juggle at the same time. Oh, I with that said, we got to wrap it up. Abby, if somebody says I want to be involved, how do they get a hold of. You What's the best way

30:02

if they go right on Team pa's website, there are so many different ways that they could end up emailing us. As I said, we're a small organization. So info at Team pa.com manufacturing at Team pa.com the form that we have on pa manufacturingfuture.com all of that, all roads really lead back to actual people who care a heck of a lot about Pennsylvania's economy and the way in which manufacturing needs to be a huge part of that. So, so all those roads, there's no wRonng door, and we're always eager to work with people who who share our goals for for Pennsylvania's economy. Yeah.

30:38

So I'm out there on, contact us, on, on your your website, and I, and if you're in you've got general inquiries, you've got common you've got so many emails out there that I can definitely find energy. See

30:55

No WRonng Door, though. Scott, no wRonng door Absolutely.

30:58

Ronn, how do they get a hold of you? They want to know more about it and all this stuff. And yeah,

31:03

it's our court r c o r t, at Dunmore, d u n, m o r e.com, always on LinkedIn too. I have big presence on LinkedIn. Feel free to jump on LinkedIn. Look for Ronn court r o n, n, c o r t, happy to engage. I got the bruises to prove I've been through the journey and happy to share my experiences. You

31:23

out on LinkedIn. Abby,

31:24

I am, yeah. Ronn does the best LinkedIn post. He kind of reminds me that I gotta, I gotta use that platform more. But Abby Kanter Smith is my because there's a lot of Smith's out there. So, yeah, eager to, eager to connect with with manufacturers, and I got to say, I have a stRonng bias of working with action oriented people, so it's a good fit. So come find me on LinkedIn, find Ronn. But as I said, you know, there's really no wRonng door. Find us, and we're trying to be movers and shakers on several

31:58

levels. You said, cantor, is at C, a n t o k,

32:02

a n t o r. I married into an easy to spell.

32:08

I would have been off and wherever I wouldn't have ever found you. All right, you both were just absolutely wonderful. Thank you very much for being on the show. God. Thank you. All right, listeners, we're gonna wrap it up on the other side. We're gonna have all the contact information for these two incredible professionals reach out. That is a must. Stay tuned. We will be right back.

32:26

You're listening to the Industrial Talk Podcast Network.

32:36

Yeah, that's a wrap right there. That's Abby, that's Ronn, that's team Pennsylvania. Again, you need to go out to that website. You got to go out that website. It has, it's all there in manufacturing, if you're in the Pennsylvania area and you need some insights into manufacturing and some resources that are available, and you want to collaborate with individuals that can help you. Ronn's a great example there, right there, in a conversation, it makes sense. We need to do everything that we possibly can to help manufacturers succeed. That means anything. It's that important, that important to this country, to the world in general. All right, I say it all the time. You have a podcast, put it out on Industrial Talk. You want a podcast? Talk to me. I'll help you with the pain and agony of all of that. And if you have technology, put it out on Industrial Talk, it's a collaborative platform. Must do. Be bold, be brave. There greatly. Hang out with Team Pennsylvania, change the world. We're going to have another great conversation shortly. So stay tuned.