Shownotes
Welcome to OrchestrateSales.com‘s Inside Sales Enablement Season 3 Enablement History. Where we hop in the Enablement Time machine and explore the past, present, and future of the elevation of a profession.
Mark Twain - the PIONEER of Sales Enablement who empowered a LITERAL customer facing frontline of 10,000!?!!!
On ISEs3 Episode 14, Erich Starrett is out-history-nerded ENTIRELY when he is joined in the Orchestrate Sales studios by Sales Melon's Todd Caponi. Todd is not only an aficionado (and collector!) of SALES history, he is a man on a mission to further a movement towards sales TRANSPARENCY. This includes authoring a 3x award-winning book (𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘛𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘴𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘚𝘢𝘭𝘦) and 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘛𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘴𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘚𝘢𝘭𝘦𝘴 𝘓𝘦𝘢𝘥𝘦𝘳 that just won its second award recently.
Highlights from the episode include...
PAST:
💬 "If the truth won't sell it, don't sell it." 💬 Arthur Dunn, 1921
⌛️ Todd's first Sales Enablement experience at Exact Target (now Salesforce) began when COO @Andy Kofoid sent him to their NEST - New Employee Sales Training as part of his sales management onboarding. It was so ineffective, he left. A few months later they asked him to rebuild enablement. He had to Google the word.
⌛️ His search led him to Scott Santucci who had a Forrester event coming up in San Francisco. He attended and sat next to Jill Rowley.
⌛️ He also came across (Dr. Ohio) and flew out to do a few day deep dive with him on adult learning. He brought the combined knowledge back and built a successful, scalable Enablement program for Exact Target.
⌛️ Post $3B acquisition by Salesforce his team used the sale e-learning modules, and recorded role plays (back in 2012!) they had built for their internal team to train all of Salesforce on Exact Target. He was given a shoutout by Mark Beinoff himself.
⌛️ Todd's three core Enablement responsibilities:
1️⃣ Amalgamate: identify and align top 5 CxO priorities
2️⃣ Orchestrate: optimize resources, identify the optimal path to enable the revenue organization to drive the five.
3️⃣ Evaluate: Provide feedback and close the loop.
💬 "(As a CRO) I always felt my Enablement team had a closer eye into the successes, the failures, the struggles, the strengths, the weaknesses of my team before any of us did. 💬
⌛️ Todd's application of transparency enabled PowerReviews to became Chicago's fastest growing tech company from 2014 to 2017.
PRESENT:
💼 As the economy gets tight, as it gets harder to sell, you need two things: better sales leadership and better sales enablement. However, the knee jerk reaction - which is happening now - is to train leaders less and downsize enablement because "it's overhead."
💬 "As things get tougher, those investments need to go up, but ironically, they've gone down historically over and over again." 💬
💼 Today, the "as a service" economy means that closing the deal is no longer the peak. It's the beginning. You need to create long term value for these customers. And that's that long game helps you win the short game too. Simliar approach to Jacco's Revenue Architecture Bowtie at Winning By Design.
💼 The shift from growth at all costs to long term recurring value is history repeating itself. 1914 to 1923. It was the forgotten depression of the early 1920s.
FUTURE:
🤖 The future of sales is two things.
1️⃣ Going back to a service oriented mindset. "Salesmanship is the science of service." - Arthur Sheldon (1911)
2️⃣ Providing better homework for the buyer. "Buyers know more nowadays" - Thomas Herbert Russell (1912)
🤖 History reveals the risk of "ruining" technology. From the phone, to email, to video, and now #AI.
🤖 Enablement will be needed in the future as long as we embrace a service / value oriented mindset.
💬 Don't be worried about technology. Just keep doing the right things. Control what you can control. There's always going to be a place for you. And I think it's going to be highly valuable and maybe even more valuable into the future." 💬
Please click 👇🏻, subscribe 📲, listen 🎧 ...and 🎙️ join the conversation!
ORCHESTRATE Sales!
Erich
#RevenueEngine #DigitalTransformation #ChangeManagement
#RevenueEnablement #Sales Enablement
#AiCuriousHumanEnthusiast
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcripts
Hello everyone and welcome to Inside Sales Enablement Season
2
:Three Enablement History, and joining
Me in the Orchestrate Sales Studios.
3
:Today is someone who knows a lot
about history, a lot more than me
4
:sales specifically, but it's Mr.
5
:Todd Caponi and he is the founder,
speaker, not just speaker, but CSP.
6
:Certifiably speaker.
7
:He'll probably share a
little bit about that.
8
:Amazing to me.
9
:I didn't know such a thing existed, CSP.
10
:And he's a workshop leader for his own,
very successful company sales melon.
11
:In addition to, as I alluded to, he
is the sales history, nerd and host.
12
:Sounds familiar.
13
:Just got to add the enablement, right?
14
:For the sales history podcast.
15
:And man, Todd's great to meet you.
16
:We had a pretty fun pre show and we
were like, we got to start recording.
17
:This is gold.
18
:So Todd, anything I missed before we dive
into the questions, you've got such a
19
:broad, deep and wide history, my friend.
20
:Todd Caponi: Now it's funny.
21
:I when cool people are doing cool
things on the weekends, I'm digging
22
:into late 1800s, early 1900s books
on sales and sales management.
23
:I've got, I'm building
basically a museum for sales.
24
:I've got triggers set up and eBay and all
kinds of places, anything that comes up.
25
:I'm buying it and like my wife and
family are saints for putting up with,
26
:it smells like the deepest corner of
grandma's basement in here from all
27
:the musty books in here, but I love it.
28
:Erich Starrett: That's great.
29
:And for those of you who can't
see the visual we do in fact have
30
:an entire library of phenomenal
books, including two of his own.
31
:I don't think I mentioned
author among those.
32
:And he is the author of both the
transparency sale and looking to click
33
:up to the sometimes forgotten leader
of sales, the transparent sales leader.
34
:So I'm sure we'll get to a little
bit of more of that in a minute,
35
:but let's start off Todd with okay.
36
:Sales history.
37
:Where did sales enablement come in?
38
:Todd Caponi: It's funny.
39
:I'm going to share a quick story
for you because it's one of the most
40
:amazing stories I'd ever heard about.
41
:You call it sales training,
you call it sales enablement,
42
:call it whatever you want.
43
:We all have probably heard
of Mark Twain, right?
44
:Mark Twain, the author of the
adventures of Tom Sawyer, the
45
:adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
46
:And then you may have heard of a U
S president Ulysses S Grant, right?
47
:So Ulysses S Grant, war hero, president.
48
:When you're the president back
then, you didn't get a pension.
49
:There was no 401k.
50
:He had made some good money.
51
:Him and his son connected up with
another guy and they created like
52
:a wall street investment firm.
53
:That other guy turned out to be a
crook, absolute crook of the worst kind.
54
:Ulysses S grant 1884 had
lost all of his money.
55
:None of it.
56
:He also smoked like 60 cigars a
day and ended up getting diagnosed
57
:with terminal throat cancer.
58
:Yeah.
59
:And so he's sitting there and he's
listen, I want to write my memoirs.
60
:I need to be able to leave
some money for my family.
61
:What am I going to do?
62
:He signs on with a publishing
firm that didn't give him
63
:the best terms in the world.
64
:Mark Twain considered Ulysses
X Grant to be an absolute hero.
65
:Jumps in and it's wait, I will
publish this book for you.
66
:I will do, I'll put together programs.
67
:I will do this.
68
:And Ulysses X Grant's I already signed.
69
:I'm like no.
70
:You can get out of that.
71
:Come with me.
72
:Mark Twain then helps him.
73
:So Ulysses S.
74
:Grant writes morning, noon,
night on his deathbed.
75
:There's pictures of him, curled
up in he's shaking doing this,
76
:he's dying, he gets the book done.
77
:In the meantime, Mark Twain
creates a publishing house.
78
:He finds 10, 000 people
to go sell this book.
79
:And most of them were
former pieces of Ulysses S.
80
:Grant's military.
81
:He taught
82
:Erich Starrett: a true
customer facing frontline.
83
:Todd Caponi: absolutely and enabled
them all to go door to door.
84
:He created something called
selling the memoirs of Ulysses S.
85
:Grant.
86
:These 10, 000 go door to door.
87
:They're taught exactly how to message
this, how to do it all in the end.
88
:The book comes out.
89
:He dies somewhere between
three and seven days later.
90
:All right, but within the next year, Mark
Twain was able to hand his widow a check
91
:that in today's terms would be 12 million.
92
:Erich Starrett: Holy sucker.
93
:Todd Caponi: is, and I consider it the
first true product launch enablement
94
:program that is done, and this is 1885.
95
:And some of those stories that
I see and I hear, I'm like, Man,
96
:people got to hear these stories.
97
:Who would ever have associated
Mark Twain with being a pioneer for
98
:sales enablement and product launch.
99
:But there we go.
100
:Ulysses S.
101
:Grant at the time was that book
was the second highest selling
102
:book of all time behind the Bible.
103
:Amazing.
104
:And there's more from a history
perspective, by the way, we
105
:can dig into people like I'm
a big fan of john Patterson.
106
:You may have heard of him, Patterson
was really his the way his brain worked.
107
:He created so much of the foundational
structures of what we use still today.
108
:First dedicated territories, first quotas.
109
:He did the first sales kickoff in 1887.
110
:And I've got some of
the details around that.
111
:His brother in law created a play,
a sales handbook for the team.
112
:It was called the NCR primer at the time.
113
:It was how I sell NCR cash registers.
114
:That was written in 1925 on
Patterson and it is fantastic.
115
:Erich Starrett: Outstanding.
116
:What great story already.
117
:So that's the first time in history,
arguably with sales enablement.
118
:How about the first time
you heard those two words?
119
:Todd Caponi: When I first got my
first sales leadership role in
120
:2008, My lens was always, Hey,
listen, everybody, we're peers.
121
:Like I'm nobody's boss.
122
:But we have different
responsibilities and you help me.
123
:I help you.
124
:This is what we're going to do.
125
:And one of the ways I'm going to help
you is I'm going to try to make you
126
:better at what you do when you walk out
of here than when you are right now.
127
:That was always my lens.
128
:I ended up going to a
company called Exact Target.
129
:That's an email marketing
unicorn at the time.
130
:If you want to call it that based
in Indianapolis, I was one of the
131
:four people running the country.
132
:So I had a big region, most like the
central region and then half of Canada.
133
:Erich Starrett: Wow.
134
:Todd Caponi: I got hired, my boss,
this guy, Andy was like, Todd.
135
:When you get here you're going to
attend something called nest, which
136
:is new employee sales training.
137
:And Todd, I know you, you're
going to hate it, right?
138
:Like you're going to, but you
got to go through it, take notes.
139
:If you can come back and coach us a
little bit on what we can be doing better.
140
:All right.
141
:And he did warn me.
142
:Erich Starrett: Don't
leave the nest, Todd.
143
:Todd Caponi: he is not only don't
leave the nest, but don't take it over.
144
:I didn't make it.
145
:By the first Thursday.
146
:This is not going where I went
back, I met with him, met with our
147
:guy that was running ops, and I was
like, guys, if we're scaling this
148
:company like I'm gonna be hiring reps.
149
:I can't have 'em go through this.
150
:This is just, it's broken.
151
:Fast forward a few months.
152
:I'm running the region.
153
:We're doing really well.
154
:They tap me on the shoulder
and they're like, Todd, we
155
:want you to rebuild enablement.
156
:It doesn't matter the cost.
157
:Just go.
158
:We've got to be prepared for this.
159
:We're taking these big rounds of funding.
160
:And so we want you to run
enablement and that sounds like fun.
161
:That's cool.
162
:And then I left and I was like, all
right, Google, what is enablement?
163
:What is this word?
164
:I literally never heard
the word enablement before.
165
:And the people that come came
up, people like Scott Santucci.
166
:And he had an event coming up in.
167
:California in San
Francisco Forrester event.
168
:I remember him walking out.
169
:He's got his like Superman shirt
on under a sport coat and sat
170
:next to Jill Rowley, who's another
classic enablement professional.
171
:Erich Starrett: Jill
shows up every episode.
172
:I love it.
173
:Of course you sat next to her.
174
:Todd Caponi: And I learned I soaked
in as much as I possibly could
175
:there about what enablement is.
176
:And then when I got back to the office, I
had a revelation through a friend of mine.
177
:Who had told me about a guy in Columbus,
Ohio, who had a doctorate in just
178
:adult learning and how people learn.
179
:I was like let's go spend a half a
day with this guy and just soak it up.
180
:We did.
181
:And then came back with kind of a
new chart for how enablement should
182
:be run to be of the scale at that
level, all adhering to how the brain
183
:takes in information, truly learns
and truly is able to apply it.
184
:And it turned out to be a raging success.
185
:We got acquired in 2013 and it was
one of the things that went really
186
:well post acquisition was making
sure that we were able to enable Mark
187
:Benioff and his 2000 salespeople.
188
:As quickly as possible to figure out
what they just spent 3 billion on.
189
:Erich Starrett: A little bird
told me, in fact, speaking of Mr.
190
:B himself, He had a nice word or
three to share with you on a kickoff
191
:call in the combined companies.
192
:Todd Caponi: Yeah, it was one of
those proud moments . We had these
193
:conference calls where all the
leaders were on Europe, like all the
194
:sales leaders, enablement leaders,
operations, they would talk about
195
:Hey, how's comp planning going?
196
:It's a disaster.
197
:How's operation?
198
:It's horrible.
199
:How's enablement planning going?
200
:Listen, we got to get these 2000 reps
speaking the exact target language
201
:in the next, you got 60 days.
202
:And I was like, I don't want to sound
arrogant, but I could do it in 15, right?
203
:Cause we had it all.
204
:We had created these on demand e
learning modules that we could just
205
:turn into their LMS and they could start
taking the classes right away and start
206
:getting familiar with the language.
207
:We were doing recorded role plays.
208
:Using your webcam back in, 2012.
209
:We found a company that was doing
it for recruiting and we're like,
210
:could you do it for enablement?
211
:During that call I took everybody
through that and one of the things
212
:like Benioff said was wow Like
enablements the one thing that seems
213
:like it's going really well thank you.
214
:Erich Starrett: That's the
exposure to sales enablement.
215
:What about the society itself?
216
:You shared that your first encounter
with Scott who ended up founding
217
:the society not too long thereafter.
218
:But the sales enablement society
now revenue enablement society.
219
:Have you been a part of that?
220
:What's your history there?
221
:Todd Caponi: Not a whole lot.
222
:I've been familiar with it.
223
:I remember back then, there was some.
224
:But there was some like
enablement heroes at that thing.
225
:I learned so much from those people
and I've always kept close with Scott
226
:over the years and I love what they're
building and these communities for
227
:sales enablers, they're so important.
228
:So one of my books back here from
like:
229
:idea that as the economy gets tight, as it
gets harder to sell, you need two things.
230
:You need better sales leadership
and better sales enablement.
231
:They didn't use the word enablement.
232
:You need both.
233
:Now, what tends to happen
when the economy tightens?
234
:For whatever reason, our subconscious
knee jerk reaction is, Hey,
235
:let's train our leaders less.
236
:Like they, they just got to get to work.
237
:We don't have money to
be training leaders.
238
:And number two is let's downsize our
enablement because that's overhead.
239
:That's insane to me.
240
:Like that to me is the
craziest thing that we know.
241
:That as things get tougher, those
investments need to go up, but
242
:ironically, they've gone down
historically over and over again.
243
:We've seen it again recently.
244
:And those sales enablement societies are
just such great opportunities for the
245
:people that are in those roles to find
each other, to find the roles to up level
246
:so that reputation goes away as it should.
247
:Erich Starrett: Those are great points.
248
:Todd and 1 of the things that I'm
hearing consistently, in fact, coming
249
:out of the digital now conference in
Chicago with corporate visions and
250
:Emblaze and the revenue enablement
society as a partner, by the way.
251
:The main theme for enablement was
having a seat at the CRO table,
252
:CXO table, being able to speak CRO.
253
:Todd Caponi: in my second book that
you mentioned, the transparent sales
254
:leader, I've got a section that I
talk about enablement for leaders
255
:because there's this always been this
misnomer of what the role is really.
256
:Designed to be.
257
:This idea that, Oh,
enablement, that's training.
258
:All right.
259
:Maybe a little, but I tried to break
down the responsibilities in the
260
:book, also with my enablement teams.
261
:When I left exact target, I went to a
company called power reviews in Chicago.
262
:I was their CRO and, it was immediately a
fight with my CEO, a guy named Matt Vogue.
263
:Matt had an old school perspective of
enablement And so I had to go in and
264
:really fight for what needed to happen.
265
:I broke it down into three
core responsibilities.
266
:First of all, the first responsibility
the word I used amalgamate meant that
267
:I wanted my enablement leader to go and
constantly survey our leaders and figure
268
:out what our priorities needed to be right
and go amalgamate all of that, right?
269
:Because everybody's got different issues.
270
:Look for those consistencies, look for the
things and then we're going to prioritize
271
:them and then we're going to go.
272
:They're going to enablement leader is
going to sit down with me and a couple
273
:of my lieutenants and we are going to
create a priority of top five Right?
274
:Here's the five things that
we are going to accomplish.
275
:Now, as the random crap pops up.
276
:I needed to empower that enablement
leader to your point about sitting
277
:at the table with the CRO to be
able to say, Hey, you need that.
278
:All right, cool.
279
:Which one of these five is
going to come out then and to be
280
:able to have that conversation.
281
:Then the number two responsibility
was the word orchestrate.
282
:Which meant I didn't need my enablement
person to be the trainer, right?
283
:They're not always the
best person to do it.
284
:The classroom's not always the best way.
285
:And so orchestrate was based on
that priority, putting together
286
:plans to orchestrate what needs
to happen in the most optimal way.
287
:And that's, through people it's e
learning versus books versus classroom.
288
:Like we need to figure that out
for each one, put together a plan
289
:and find the best people for it.
290
:One of the guys that I
hired at exact target.
291
:His name was Steve.
292
:He was a super nerd and he
was not afraid to be a jerk.
293
:He's a self made dude.
294
:He didn't even need a job.
295
:He just liked doing this.
296
:And so little funny story.
297
:We'd have product come
in and teach a class.
298
:And so product would come
in with all their slides.
299
:And Steve would be like, we're
going to go through these first.
300
:We're going to optimize them.
301
:And the product is guys like they
need to learn all of this stuff.
302
:And Steve would be like
then you're not teaching.
303
:He wasn't afraid to tell
him this is garbage.
304
:These 40 slides.
305
:They only need these five.
306
:We're going to X those out.
307
:We're going to opt like he was
awesome and people hated them.
308
:And I think they still talk
about what Steve guy, dude,
309
:but it was fricking great.
310
:But that was orchestrated, optimizing
the path of getting those priorities
311
:into the brains, into the actions
of our revenue organization.
312
:And then number three was evaluate, right?
313
:I always felt my enablement team
had a closer eye into The successes,
314
:the failures, the struggles,
the strengths, the weaknesses
315
:of my team before any of us did.
316
:Even new managers hiring a new rep, my
enablement team could see that before
317
:the manager themselves could see that.
318
:And I needed to be able to create a
mechanism so that they had a seat at
319
:the table to say, Hey, She's awesome.
320
:That dude sucks, right?
321
:And be able to do that in a way so
that we could see those holes before
322
:they formed and became canyons.
323
:So amalgamate, orchestrate, evaluate.
324
:That was the role.
325
:And once we really got that nailed
down, things started to get controlled.
326
:We were hitting the priorities that
we needed to, and we were seeing
327
:those holes before they formed.
328
:So that's my rant on what
enablement is and how it always
329
:worked in our organizations.
330
:Erich Starrett: Outstanding.
331
:And in the orchestrate piece , you
said across the revenue organization.
332
:What does that mean?
333
:Todd Caponi: Yeah.
334
:When you see things on LinkedIn or
whatever about sales has changed so
335
:much, the buyer knows so much more.
336
:No, they don't.
337
:Like most of what is said
about how sales has changed.
338
:Trust me, it's incorrect, right?
339
:Like buyers know more
nowadays, those four words.
340
:1912 Thomas Herbert Russell's
book, Salesmanship, referring to
341
:the fact that we had catalogs.
342
:Nobody can see this, but this is a
:
343
:is essentially Amazon, right?
344
:Like you could buy, there's a department
of human hair if you need any human
345
:hair, but it's got like tractor, you
could buy everything in here, right?
346
:This is Amazon 1908.
347
:Buyers have always had access to
more information than salespeople
348
:felt comfortable with, right?
349
:What do they need us for?
350
:More information available to
buyers has not made it easier.
351
:It's made it harder, always.
352
:And salespeople doing right by customers
focused on a service oriented mindset
353
:where we're helping them achieve optimal
outcomes, things maybe they thought
354
:they couldn't even achieve, whether
it's with us or with somebody else.
355
:As fast as possible that
is always the goal, right?
356
:So that part of sales hasn't really
changed buyers doing more homework
357
:before they talk to the rep.
358
:I got a story of 1926 where they would
have basically interns call companies and
359
:ask for catalogs so executives can read
the catalogs and not be bothered, right?
360
:That's always been the same.
361
:What has changed the as
a service economy, right?
362
:That back when I started in sales, we
were, you get the deal and good luck.
363
:See ya.
364
:And then if they had a complaint,
what are they going to do?
365
:Write a letter, call an 800
number, like talk to their four
366
:friends that have, who cares?
367
:Today, the as a service economy means
that the deal is no longer the peak.
368
:It's basically an early milestone to
having customers that stay, that buy,
369
:stay, buy more and become advocates for
you and take you with them to their next
370
:company, which again, there's a lot more
ent now than there was in the:
371
:And so you need to create long
term value for these customers.
372
:And that's that long game helps
you win the short game too.
373
:And so my client success team needed to
be an extension of everything because
374
:they were actually more important than
my new business team, not less important.
375
:So I always looked at sales client
success Hey, we need to be all doing
376
:this together and all in lockstep.
377
:As a matter of fact, client success,
you're going to hate sitting next
378
:to our sales team, but you're going
to do it because they're obnoxious.
379
:But you're like, we need us
to all be like, like this.
380
:When I think about enablement, it was
uplift everybody together and create those
381
:connections and make sure that there's,
consistency in everything we're doing
382
:because that long game wins the long
game, but it also wins the short game too.
383
:Erich Starrett: Yeah.
384
:And it sounds a lot like
revenue architecture.
385
:I'm a big fan of Jacco -over
at Winning By Designs -bowtie.
386
:Let's turn the funnel on its side.
387
:You literally had that going on in real
life where that demarcation point, that's
388
:the middle of the funnel turned on its
side, which is, Hey, we signed a deal now
389
:goes over to the other side of the floor.
390
:Literally the baton is passed
physically in the office.
391
:I love that visual over to now
we need to get that first impact
392
:and make sure that transparently
everything we shared comes true.
393
:We show that impact and now it's
recurring impact and we keep turning
394
:them through that right hand side
of the bow tie and customer success.
395
:And maybe even it goes back across
the aisle and you bring sales back in.
396
:Todd Caponi: Yeah, exactly.
397
:For our deals maybe not with the smallest
deals, but some of our, mid to larger,
398
:there was basically a requirement before
a contract could be signed that client
399
:success was a part of the deal there,
at least for the last parts of it to
400
:make sure that there's pure alignment.
401
:Like my favorite sales quote of all time.
402
:A guy named Arthur Dunn, his book,
Scientific Selling and Advertising,
403
:the year is 1921, and his quote is
simply, and there's a whole page
404
:dedicated to this one sentence.
405
:So you're reading the book, there's a
page, it's blank, it's got one sentence
406
:on it, and the sentence just says this,
if the truth won't sell it, don't sell it.
407
:Right?
408
:I like, it's a beautiful line,
:
409
:had to drive in our organizations.
410
:Again, in this as a service economy.
411
:If you need to lie to get a
deal done, you probably should
412
:go find another job, right?
413
:That's the reputation that goes along,
like the blow horn by which people
414
:can share negative experiences means
that maybe you get that one deal,
415
:but it costs you four that you never
knew existed because they're hearing
416
:in the back channels about how you
suck and they're not coming to you.
417
:One other little semi rant that sales
leaders need to pay attention to.
418
:When I was a revenue or sales leader,
one of the things that I would look to
419
:my team for one of the metrics was, Hey,
listen, at all times, You need to have
420
:four X, your quota and pipeline, right?
421
:That old four X you got to have.
422
:And so that's like the bow tie being
a big floppy one, like a clown.
423
:And so what we ended up
doing is we'd measure to it.
424
:And what would happen?
425
:My reps would fill their pipelines with
four X, the quota filled with crap.
426
:And we'd lose slowly.
427
:We'd hang on to deals that
we shouldn't be working.
428
:And our most valuable asset that we
can convert to revenue is our time.
429
:What are we doing?
430
:And so that's a lot of where this
transparency element comes into is we
431
:need to reveal what we give up to be great
at our core early, like a pricing range.
432
:If you're talking about a six figure
deal to a four figure buyer, One
433
:of you is in the wrong room, like
you better figure that out, right?
434
:And we need to clear that out so that
big clowny bowtie becomes more like a
435
:cylinder and then spews out at the end.
436
:That that's the ultimate.
437
:And I think enablement plays
just such a key role in that.
438
:And it starts with leadership.
439
:A lot of our measures drive
the wrong behaviors and we
440
:need to wind that back up.
441
:Erich Starrett: Yeah.
442
:And so that evolution that
you did naturally enabling
443
:the customer service group.
444
:We've seen chief sales officer
to chief revenue officer.
445
:We've seen sales ops to rev ops.
446
:And now we've seen sales enablement
to revenue enablement society.
447
:Todd Caponi: That's a natural evolution
to the one big thing that has changed
448
:in the world of sales, which is the
long game of everything as a service.
449
:Product as a service.
450
:Sales as service.
451
:Services, as a service, like whatever.
452
:If you're not focused on long
term value of your customer.
453
:You're going to lose.
454
:And my business today, I do keynotes.
455
:I do workshops for lots of companies.
456
:I had been almost solely tech companies
and now my business is about 50, 50
457
:tech and then outside of tech, the
tech world seems to get it right.
458
:The outside of tech world
seems to be a little behind.
459
:We're getting them across
that chasm that it's not.
460
:Hey, sell the deal and deal
with the consequences later.
461
:It's we need to think about revenue,
the revenue names in all the things that
462
:we're doing and look across all elements.
463
:And make sure that we're creating
these long term value customers because
464
:that's where the profitability comes in.
465
:And otherwise, it's just not sustainable.
466
:I'd love your opinion on that.
467
:Erich Starrett: Yeah, to me, it's
been fascinating that I've really only
468
:delved into the SAS space and startup
space over the last four or five years.
469
:I've spent a lot of my career
knocking down silos in businesses
470
:that have already been built, a
lot of which have stood for years.
471
:You have the opposite effect when
you have these greenfield companies
472
:where there's are there's a natural
no walls, but they start to build up.
473
:So there's still that opportunity
to orchestrate cross functionally
474
:and to build that design.
475
:But exactly to your point of what I've
been seeing the last few years have been
476
:a trend towards growth at all costs.
477
:Without really thinking about how do we
keep that recurring impact that recurring
478
:revenue and that has changed seemingly
to me overnight and especially in the
479
:sass space they're like the lightning rod
for that because of how dependent they
480
:are on that recurring revenue there are
huge changes in the go to market motions
481
:down to hiring individual positions.
482
:Todd Caponi: Yeah, it's history
repeating itself, literally.
483
:If you look at this is nerdy, but
if you look at the period of:
484
:1923, we are in 1923 right now, because
:
485
:1914 to 1917, you had slow and
steady, like regular growth, right?
486
:It was good.
487
:It was a strong economy.
488
:We lived that basically 2017 to
:
489
:The economy shut off in 1918
when we went into world war one.
490
:Like just shut the, like off
manufacturing, stop, take everybody,
491
:throw them to the war effort.
492
:But we didn't stay in world war one
long and the economy opened back
493
:up pretty quickly and then took off
exactly like mid:
494
:where you had high turnover, voluntary
turnover among sales reps, literally
495
:in 1919, salesperson turnover was 65
percent and it was largely voluntary.
496
:As reps went chasing money, like they'd
go to a job and then go to another
497
:job, go to another job because there
were so many jobs and not enough people
498
:and money was pouring into sales.
499
:Then what happened?
500
:Inflation spike, inflation
went up and I saw this in:
501
:I wrote an article February 2nd, 2022
saying, Here ye, hear ye, the end is near!
502
:And people were like, shut up, Todd.
503
:You don't know what you're talking about.
504
:There's too much private equity.
505
:Okay, Inflation spiked.
506
:And sure enough, in March
of:
507
:And then what happened?
508
:The bottom dropped out.
509
:1921.
510
:You had 77 percent salesperson turnover.
511
:Almost all involuntary 1922, 85 percent
salesperson turnover in companies
512
:were purging their sales organizations
because the economy had dropped out.
513
:It was the forgotten
depression of the early:
514
:Now that's exactly what
happened in:
515
:Where we suddenly, we had this dip
and all of a sudden you'd saw across
516
:SAS and tech, like salespeople
getting purged everywhere, and
517
:then it slowly starts to come out.
518
:When we go from revenue at all costs.
519
:1919 early 1920 to depressionary
recessionary to Profitable growth.
520
:Guess what though?
521
:We're going to do it again, dude.
522
:Like we're gonna we're gonna start
going back to revenue at all costs.
523
:It's going to happen What I hope
t happen is that we don't hit:
524
:here which was the start of the Great
Depression that lasted almost 10 years.
525
:We got to make sure that we learn
these lessons But right now we're
526
:in this profitable growth stage
hat we experienced exactly In:
527
:it lasted for a couple of years.
528
:And then we started to
get a little shady again.
529
:And we had the roaring twenties later
on the:
530
:Erich Starrett: I don't know
that a whole lot of us can
531
:wait 15 years for that, Todd.
532
:So
533
:Todd Caponi: Exactly.
534
:Erich Starrett: I'm cheering for the
light at the end of the tunnel is the
535
:actual end of the tunnel coming up here.
536
:Todd Caponi: Yeah.
537
:Let's hope that we just continue
to be smart about profitable
538
:growth and get back into.
539
:A sustained period of
time where that matters.
540
:But man, when you shut off an economy,
it's like you took a pendulum and you
541
:pulled it and then you released it, right?
542
:So it's off and then it swings and then
swings and it takes a while to get back.
543
:And then we're here.
544
:But if somebody shuts it off
again, we're bound to have the
545
:same situation happen again.
546
:God willing, let's hope
that doesn't happen.
547
:Erich Starrett: Yeah, perfect timing.
548
:Cause we're rounding the corner here
and shifting from past to present.
549
:Anything else specific to transparency,
the title of both your books, right?
550
:Todd Caponi: The concept of transparency?
551
:Like I said, Arthur done 1921
talking about honesty, right?
552
:Transparency is an overused word.
553
:Here was the trigger for me.
554
:I was the chief revenue officer
of PowerReviews here in Chicago.
555
:We're a reviews company, right?
556
:So You've probably experienced it before.
557
:Retailers, brands, you go to crocs.
558
:com.
559
:You're looking at a product,
scroll down, there's reviews.
560
:There's us doing the collect and
display for them and a thousand
561
:other retailers and brands.
562
:A few years ago, we partnered with
Northwestern University here in Chicago.
563
:When a website's acting as a
salesperson, what do people do?
564
:That was the study, right?
565
:Had nothing to do with outside
sales, or so I thought.
566
:It came back with three data points.
567
:Thanks.
568
:Two of which changed my life
like it only happened to a nerd.
569
:The one data point that didn't
change my life was that we
570
:all read reviews today, right?
571
:The number now is there's 99
percent of us when we're buying
572
:something we haven't bought before.
573
:We're going to do our homework, right?
574
:But here's the two that changed my life.
575
:And again, this is what a
website's acting as a salesperson.
576
:Number one, we're up over 85 percent
of us read the negative reviews first.
577
:We skip the fives, we read the
fours, threes, twos, and ones first.
578
:Most of us, when we're reading reviews,
we'll go read the negatives before
579
:we go read the glowing positives.
580
:And the last data point, and this
number is skewed a little bit since
581
:the original research, but the original
research said that a product with
582
:an average review score between a 4.
583
:2 and a 4.
584
:5 on a five point scale That's optimal
for purchase conversion, meaning that
585
:a product that is negative reviews
right under it sells at a higher
586
:conversion rate than a product that is
nothing but perfect five star reviews.
587
:Products with perfect five star reviews
sell at about the same conversion
588
:rate as a product that's got a 3.
589
:25, which sucks.
590
:And so I looked at that and I was like,
wow, that's, why does that happen?
591
:And then I looked at my sales team.
592
:It was about 60 strong at the time.
593
:And I'm like, we've been
teaching these reps to basically
594
:present our solutions as 5.
595
:0.
596
:And hope the customer doesn't find out.
597
:And maybe should we be the
ones doing that homework?
598
:Should we lead with what we
give up to be great at our core?
599
:Our biggest competitor is bigger,
stronger, publicly held, better logos.
600
:Why would we wait?
601
:Let's share.
602
:Where we are.
603
:And if they're not cool with that,
let's take that most important
604
:asset we have to convert to revenue,
which is our time and optimize it.
605
:And so we started leading with what
we gave up to be great at our core,
606
:whether it's technology, whether it's
something like our pricing model.
607
:Like I said, if you're talking about
a six figure deal to a four figure
608
:buyer, one of you is in the wrong
conversation, figure that out now.
609
:And suddenly magic happened.
610
:Win rates went up.
611
:Cycle lengths shrunk considerably.
612
:Our qualification in was better.
613
:Our qualification out was faster.
614
:And we disarmed our competitors.
615
:They couldn't message against us
because we already did it, right?
616
:And we became Chicago's fastest
growing tech company from:
617
:Now, sure it feels good
to be transparent, right?
618
:But my argument is you got
to do it anyway today, right?
619
:The blow horn by which people can share
their experiences, they can do their
620
:own homework when you're coming in five
Oh speak and hope they don't find out.
621
:And they do trust erodes when
rates go down, that status
622
:quo loss number goes way up.
623
:I believe that the future
of sales is two things.
624
:Number one is going back to that
service oriented mindset that we're
625
:providing a service to our customers.
626
:Arthur Sheldon in his 1911
book, which is right here.
627
:This is a fricking beauty.
628
:His, my favorite quote
in this book is true.
629
:Salesmanship is the science of service.
630
:Grasp that thought firmly
and never let go, right?
631
:We need to get back to that.
632
:And then number two is we've got to
have this long game thinking about
633
:doing the homework for the buyer.
634
:Remember, as Thomas Herbert Russell
said, buyers know more nowadays in
635
:1912, while they know it more now,
and that hasn't been good for buyers.
636
:It's been bad.
637
:Do the homework for the
buyer, lead with it.
638
:And you'll find that all that
magic starts to happen and
639
:you'll have customers for life.
640
:Erich Starrett: Love it.
641
:Let's go future.
642
:What's next.
643
:In the enablement evolution?
644
:Where do you see this thing going?
645
:Todd Caponi: Throughout history,
we've taken every piece of technology
646
:and we've ruined it as salespeople.
647
:Right behind me, there
is a phone from:
648
:It is a old cathedral phone from
the Swedish American company.
649
:The telephone, when we talk about
like sales technology and we're
650
:in a sales technology revolution.
651
:Okay, cool.
652
:But yeah, The greatest one happened
th of,:
653
:notorious AGB, Alexander Graham Bell,
made the first telephone call, right?
654
:By the 1910s, it was becoming pervasive,
and it truly changed everything in sales.
655
:And by the mid 1920s, we had ruined it.
656
:Like we had created, we've gotten
blinded by scale and we use the
657
:technology for evil instead of good.
658
:We needed technologies
created to prevent its usage.
659
:And then, AGB would be rolling over
in his grave if he knew that the Do
660
:Not Call registry as of two years ago
had 221 million phone numbers in it.
661
:We screwed that up, right?
662
:The government had to get involved.
663
:We did the same with email, my LinkedIn
connection requests, dude, they make
664
:you want to like, it's they're terrible.
665
:Like we started ruining video.
666
:I'd get these video outreaches from
people that are like, hello, you.
667
:Your background's really impressive.
668
:And they'd have in the background, like
my LinkedIn pro gosh, stop ruining it,.
669
:AI, like AI is now all the rage.
670
:Oh my gosh, it's going
to change everything.
671
:We're going to ruin it.
672
:Like we're going to figure out ways to
use it best, but there's going to be
673
:a percentage of people that ruin it.
674
:But my future lens is this.
675
:We are all going to be
needed in the future.
676
:If we continue to embrace
that service oriented mindset.
677
:Enablement professionals, if you're
creating that and optimizing that
678
:service oriented mindset throughout
your revenue organizations that you
679
:help and that you aid and you help
achieve optimal outcomes with, there
680
:will always be a place for you.
681
:You will always be valuable.
682
:You're in a great profession.
683
:And when we're doing things right,
it should feel really good too.
684
:And my perspective is don't
be worried about technology.
685
:Just keep doing the right things.
686
:Control what you can control.
687
:There's always going
to be a place for you.
688
:And I think it's going to be
highly valuable and maybe even
689
:more valuable into the future.
690
:Erich Starrett: love that.
691
:What a great note to end on and i'll
double down on it through a Hashtag
692
:I threw together at some point which
is AI curious human enthusiast And
693
:through the lens of what an awesome
opportunity for enablement to both
694
:in their own role, get rid of the
administrivia with the robots, right?
695
:Lean into that, help sales do
the same so they can focus on
696
:that relationship building.
697
:And the additional bonus to
me is to lean into back to the
698
:Santucci and the S on his chest.
699
:What your superpower, what is your
unique human being superpower?
700
:If you can take the administrivia off
their table and focus on what makes you
701
:special and unique, it's empowering!
702
:Todd Caponi: For me personally,
like before I do a discovery.
703
:I used to go read review
sites for whatever the company
704
:is that I'm gonna go talk to.
705
:I look at the reviews.
706
:I'd read them all.
707
:I'd try to create an impression of my mind
that you know what the pros and cons are.
708
:Now I just go to AI and go under
what circumstances is company name
709
:a good fit under what circumstances
is company name not a good fit.
710
:And then it would give me 200
words on both and I'd be prepped.
711
:That's fantastic.
712
:There was one of my customers, they
compete with another company all the time.
713
:I went into chat GPT and I wrote,
if I worked for competitor name, how
714
:would I message against my client.
715
:It came up with a whole playbook, right?
716
:That's amazing.
717
:That's so valuable that can be used
for good, not evil, good, not evil.
718
:Not scale.
719
:I think the word scale is a dirty
word when it's thought about in
720
:terms of, hey, let's just more
monkeys and more typewriters.
721
:Think about, optimizing everything
you do again, to your point about
722
:superpowers, like what's our role?
723
:Our role is to help customers achieve
optimal outcomes as quickly as
724
:possible with us or with somebody else.
725
:That's our job to help be their Sherpa.
726
:Use AI to help make sure that
you're able to provide that kind
727
:of consulting and advisory to those
customers as quickly as possible.
728
:It's all there for the taking.
729
:I think that's a great opportunity.
730
:Don't ruin it.
731
:Do all of the above transparently
732
:Exactly,
733
:Erich Starrett: Awesome, Todd.
734
:Thanks so much for your time.
735
:We'd love to have you back
at some point in the future.
736
:. Todd Caponi: You've only touched the
surface of my nerdery, my brother.
737
:Erich Starrett: And that's a
great reminder to the audience.
738
:Be sure to not only follow Todd,
click into his YouTube channel.
739
:He's got a lot of entertaining
stuff out there and of course
740
:his podcast and get both books.
741
:I'm only halfway through the
first one and it is a mother load
742
:of thoughtfulness, not only on
transparency, but on sales mastery.
743
:So again, Todd, thanks
so much for your time.
744
:Any parting words?
745
:Todd Caponi: It's been a pleasure.
746
:This has been a blast
face hurts from smiling.
747
:Thanks for having me on.
748
:Erich Starrett: Back at you, Todd.
749
:Appreciate you, man.
750
:Talk soon.
