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211: Defeating Despair by Restoring Reason with Dr. Travis M. Corcoran
Episode 21111th August 2022 • The Beyond Adversity Podcast with Dr. Brad Miller • Dr Brad Miller
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He is an advocate for the liberal arts and a philosopher who aids aspirants in their self-taught education by providing them with the necessary guidance. Besides his bachelor's degree in Philosophy, he also has a minor in Biology.

Dr. Travis had a realization of how hard it is to teach and help someone due to the fact that people are often emotionally involved with everything in their lives. 

Despite being an expert, Dr. Travis had a hard time connecting with his family with regard to the information he was sharing. They don't see him as an expert. This is why he tried to teach them the 'Trivium' without them knowing. This is to avoid engaging in arguments and debates with them. Eventually, years after, his family finally looked at him as someone they trusted in the field.

Dr. Travis is also an author of the book entitled "Restoring Reason: Using the Ancient Liberal Arts to Defend Against Modern Manipulation." This book aims to share knowledge on how liberal arts can help make decisions that will lead to a high-quality life. 

Episode 211 of The Beyond Adversity Podcast is for those who don't aim to make the right decisions to have a high-quality life.

In this episode, the topics discussed are all about the books Restoring Reason and The Trivium. It talks about the 'trivium' and the difference between knowledge, understanding, and wisdom, as well as the ancient liberal arts and their application to business, work, healthcare, and politics. 

"The Beyond Adversity Podcast with Dr. Brad Miller is published weekly with the mission of helping people "Grow Through What They Go Through" as they navigate adversity and discover their promised life of peace, prosperity, and purpose. 

https://www.restoringreason.com/

Own Book – Restoring Reason: https://www.amazon.com/Restoring-Reason-Ancient-Liberal-Manipulation/dp/B09VYJ65F2/  

Suggested Book – The Trivium: https://www.amazon.com/Trivium-Liberal-Logic-Grammar-Rhetoric-ebook/dp/B007XHIUJG 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-travis-corcoran/

Transcripts

Dr. Brad Miller:

Dr. Travis Corcoran is the author of Restoring Reason, using

Dr. Brad Miller:

the ancient liberal arts to defend against modern manipulation.

Dr. Brad Miller:

He is a philosopher and a liberal arts enthusiast who helps aspiring

Dr. Brad Miller:

scholars to pursue a self-taught education. He's been involved with

Dr. Brad Miller:

the health care industry in the Netherlands. He also has a Bachelor's

Dr. Brad Miller:

Degree in Philosophy and a minor in Biology. He has been involved

Dr. Brad Miller:

with finances and other leadership areas in life. He is our guest today

Dr. Brad Miller:

on the Beyond Adversity podcast. Dr. Travis Corcoran. Corcoran,

Dr. Brad Miller:

welcome to Beyond Adversity.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Thank you, Dr. Brad, it's a pleasure to be here, man.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Well, thank you, Travis, appreciate you being with me. I'm

Dr. Brad Miller:

fascinated by our topic here today. A lot of it has to do with

Dr. Brad Miller:

my own background. You are a philosopher and a person

Dr. Brad Miller:

who is an intellectual person. And yet you have, from

Dr. Brad Miller:

reading through your book, you also have some issues with

Dr. Brad Miller:

academia, you also have some issues with big business and

Dr. Brad Miller:

big government and some things along this line. I come from

Dr. Brad Miller:

a background in ministry myself, and I also have a degree in

Dr. Brad Miller:

Philosophy and Religion and just have an interest in how one

Dr. Brad Miller:

can use reason in your mind to tackle issues in life. And to think

Dr. Brad Miller:

through things and not just only be reactionary, and I think it's a

Dr. Brad Miller:

little bit what you're about. But what a mission, first of all is.

Dr. Brad Miller:

What is, what was something that kind of triggered something for

Dr. Brad Miller:

you? What were some adversity or something in your life that

Dr. Brad Miller:

triggered you to have something that you'd said that, Okay, I

Dr. Brad Miller:

gotta find a methodology or a way to navigate this that

Dr. Brad Miller:

maybe apart from my past?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I think Brad would have was, I came into it through discourse, right?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Like, good, healthy conflict with people good discourse. I began to

Dr. Brad Miller:

Do you have any particular you very particular experience there,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that there was an incredible difficulty trying to, I guess, teach

Dr. Brad Miller:

Travis, it really kind of was a tipping point for you one particular

Dr. Brad Miller:

argument or encounter a situation in the business world or academics

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

someone, help someone, or help them learn about whatever

Dr. Brad Miller:

where you said, Okay, that's enough, I got to deal with that.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

topic it may be. And it's usually a topic that I have some certainty

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

on, like a topic about whether it's like, how to eat, how to exercise,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

what form of healthcare. And what I realized is that probably

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

myself included, many people are very emotionally attached to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

their previous conviction biases, something that they're just so

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

emotionally invested in that they're convinced it's true. I guess I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

just finally saw through all the particular discussions, there was

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

one line, something that went through every one of those, and that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

was that we defend based on emotion. And so I decided what I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

rather do is have discussions with people about thinking. So that's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

what really what pushed me to write this book and to share these

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

methods with other people. So that they weren't stuck in this.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

In my field, there are plenty in academics, but the ones that and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

you can probably relate to this. The ones that motivate, inspired

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

me and motivated me the most are the ones that have a family.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Those are the people I care about. And also there, I'm sure you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

would agree with this, they're often the most difficult people to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

get through to because I mean, my parents, my siblings, they know

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

me as like this little kid. And as you grow up and develop maybe

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

some expertise or preeminence in an area or field, it's still hard for

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

them to see you as an expert. it's not that you're trying to make

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

them wrong. You're just want to share this information. So for me,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

it was really with them about probably about food and healthcare.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And it got to be a bit. Yeah, I didn't want to jeopardize a relationship.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

So what I did was I put the arguments to the side. I just began to teach

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

them basically, without their knowing I was teaching them the trivium.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Like all my discussions were then based around, how do you form your

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

opinions? Where do you get your data from? Things like that. So in a

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

roundabout way, I just wanted to teach them the proper tools and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

skills. And then yeah, years later, it's I'm sitting in a very good position

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

with my family. They look to me as the like the trusted authority on

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

health and exercise and food and all this stuff, something comes out

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

in the news, immediately I get a phone call. So things change. It was

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

a slow, deliberate process, where I had to make sure they had the tools

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that I was using, right? Every mathematician, if they understand in a

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

subtraction, they're gonna get the same conclusion. But if they understand

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

those concepts and principles, so I didn't have to worry about winning a

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

debate or telling them my conclusion. I gave them the tools to reach the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

conclusion themselves, then that was far more empowering for them.

Dr. Brad Miller:

It's not like you're in a better place now with your family and with others,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and you've learned some of this process here. Applying data, applying logic

Dr. Brad Miller:

to situations is kind of hard to do. And, you know, particularly you and I are

Dr. Brad Miller:

talking about things like, you know, the top of your book is reason. We're

Dr. Brad Miller:

talking about some things like logic and data, but you know, as you

Dr. Brad Miller:

mentioned that your family and some others. We live in an emotionally

Dr. Brad Miller:

boiling point world in many ways, and many, many people do not react

Dr. Brad Miller:

well. But let's be honest about it. When we try to apply logic and reason

Dr. Brad Miller:

and thinking to processes that people would rather almost automatically

Dr. Brad Miller:

our reaction area to get emotional, our they dredge up something from

Dr. Brad Miller:

their past experience, and apply it in an appropriate way. So when I talked

Dr. Brad Miller:

to her met her about his life, what are some of the things you've learned

Dr. Brad Miller:

and some of the applications so the actions that you've taken, some of

Dr. Brad Miller:

the ways that you then took this experience with your family and in

Dr. Brad Miller:

academics and other things, and began to shift? What are some of these

Dr. Brad Miller:

that you started to do, because they have direction a lot of people would

Dr. Brad Miller:

have, I've had my own family, where you kind of react to emotion with

Dr. Brad Miller:

emotion. And that really doesn't get it get stuck. So I'll tell you that some

Dr. Brad Miller:

of the things that you did, then to help you get to this better point with

Dr. Brad Miller:

your family, and some of the areas that you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

There was something that was I was always doing a little bit as

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I got a little more mature, or something I did more frequently as

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I got older, and that was self reflect and making sure that my

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

perspective conformed to reason. So many people like in once I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

put this book out, and since I've been teaching, a lot of people come

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

to me and they'll say they're crazy, man, they always have the same.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Brad, they come with the same question every time. It's like, Hey, I'm

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

dealing with someone who's unreasonable. How do I convince them

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

this and this or whatever it may be? I always say, well, first, you need to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

be certain that you're correct, or that your conclusions are true. Have you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

evaluated your premises? Have you looked at those? So that was one thing

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I did. The other, I think was also really important. And that helped a lot. And

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that was to be more responsible with my language. Language is, if I were to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

ask anyone, like, words have incredible power, like with a few choice words,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

you can really build someone up or you can break them down. You can destroy

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

relationships, build relationships, words have power. I don't know anyone that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

would say, It's okay to use power irresponsibly. So why are so many people

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

okay with using words and irresponsibility and I decided that I was no

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

longer going to do that. So I decided to start making efforts to use

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the words for what they mean and mean what I say. And so some of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

those things had, the first things I started looking at were science, the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

word science, the word data, the word reason, the word understanding,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the knowledge, they're not all the same. Like right now you look at the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

news would have us believe legacy media, which I write about my book,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

they would have us believed that the word science is somehow synonymous

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

with truth, which couldn't be further from the truth. Like science comes

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

from Latin seance or searra to know and knowledge that can be correct

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

can be incorrect. Like over my my lifetime, your lifetime, Brad what we're

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

always trying to do is improve the quality and quantity of our knowledge.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And when we find that some college knowledge is mistaken or incorrect,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

we eliminate it, make room for new, but it is not the truth. It's just a

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

database. The majority that's acquired empirically and then through

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

reason, we add to the quality of knowledge, rationally so we acquire

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

rational knowledge and empirical knowledge. And so I started get like

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

just talking about those I started to be a bit more specific. Someone told

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

me they have evidence. Okay, that's great. Evidence, however, is just data

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

must prove something. Evidence itself is not proof. Right? So, I just wanted

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

to make those clear to people and maybe easier to drive the discussion forward.

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think it's a couple of things you said they're really important in terms

Dr. Brad Miller:

of when you said to think and reflect, I also thought of the word kind

Dr. Brad Miller:

of pause, you know, take a breath. You know, sometimes people will

Dr. Brad Miller:

say it this way, okay, you know, calm down, take a breath, whatever.

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think that's kind of an important aspect there, and I know that, I think

Dr. Brad Miller:

it's Stephen Covey says something, it is Seven Habits about an order to

Dr. Brad Miller:

be understood, take time to understand. You know, to try to try to see

Dr. Brad Miller:

the other person's point of view. And then you also said, choose your

Dr. Brad Miller:

words carefully. Because, man, you just never know what a reactionary

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing, what damage it can do. And just, it may send, you know, set of

Dr. Brad Miller:

trying to be convincing, you know, kind of in a debate type of

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing, that all you're doing is putting up walls and separation

Dr. Brad Miller:

there. That's not helpful, that's not helpful. And I kind of I wanted

Dr. Brad Miller:

to really get into some of your particular processes you

Dr. Brad Miller:

use for a reason in just a second here. But you mentioned kind

Dr. Brad Miller:

of this area of just a little touched on a little bit about how kind

Dr. Brad Miller:

of that reflective and meditative process about how you're trying

Dr. Brad Miller:

to looking for some area of commonality. And I'm wondering if

Dr. Brad Miller:

there is any aspect of this, Travis, in your experience that is

Dr. Brad Miller:

kind of this place? That's a little bit beyond what our present

Dr. Brad Miller:

circumstances are? What I mean by that is, you know, for Is there

Dr. Brad Miller:

any connection to the did you think to something greater than itself

Dr. Brad Miller:

or greater than the relationship that comes into play here? For

Dr. Brad Miller:

some people might be meditation, some people want to be

Dr. Brad Miller:

spirituality, some people might be religion, some people might

Dr. Brad Miller:

be something else. But is there any place for something kind of

Dr. Brad Miller:

a vibe beyond self that comes into play to helping people to

Dr. Brad Miller:

come to this of what I think is your goal of a higher quality?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Higher quality life, I would say, requires recognition of something

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

higher than yourself. Like that's like a foregone conclusion for me.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And I certainly am convinced that it's not just and I would say, it's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

more than a belief. It's not to me, it's not a belief. I have knowledge,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that conforms to reason that there is something higher, and that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

if it wasn't there, we wouldn't have Well, life. Life is the expression

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

of some intelligence in matter. So and that's in my profession, which

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

is something we talk about a lot. So yeah, for me, and one of my

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

favorite quotes, also, this is from an old Russian philosopher, Mikhail

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

McCune. And he says The Liberty, so freedom, the freedom, the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

liberty, the liberty of man consists solely in this, that he

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

understands the laws of nature for himself, not because they

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

were given to him externally, by some, yeah, by some other force

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

and other person. So to me, like for some people, it's very spiritual, I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

guess it can be for me, too. This is where I'm careful with my words, but

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

really share laws of nature. Like nature is like those are the only real laws.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Man has convinced us that they have laws too. But those are

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

really rules, rules can be changed, and they're always changed

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

by the ruler, right? Wear your seat belt, Don't go this fast.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Don't do this. But nature has laws. When you violate those

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

laws, you pay. You pay the for instance, small I jump off the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

top of my house here, there will be consequences of violence

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

law. Yeah, there's also these extends when someone truly like

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Mikhail Vicuna was saying, once you truly understand the laws

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

of nature, that also makes murder and all these other things that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

we would read in like say the 10 commandments and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

many other religious or spiritual texts, that those are also

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

write a very reasonable conclusion from the laws of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

nature as well. And then, which leads to question to the more

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

theologically inclined scholar to start asking, well, who's the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

author of nature?

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think it's a that's awesome. I'm just a big believer that

Dr. Brad Miller:

you know, to have high quality life involves personal transformation.

Dr. Brad Miller:

If you want to go transform groups, bodies of any kind be the

Dr. Brad Miller:

business or a political group or country whatever personal

Dr. Brad Miller:

transformation has to take place and corporate transfer.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Transformation has to take place and that's a part of it and

Dr. Brad Miller:

yet, you have these entities these forces that kind of push

Dr. Brad Miller:

against it transformation. And you talk about love about

Dr. Brad Miller:

those who in your book. And let's go about, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

there are some authors talk about the resistance we all

Dr. Brad Miller:

go against. What are some of these forces that we have to

Dr. Brad Miller:

battle against? Or do be and deal with in order to have

Dr. Brad Miller:

personal high quality of life? Go into those areas, just

Dr. Brad Miller:

for a minute here? I know you mentioned

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

These, I would call them a bit nefarious and some

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

people with good reservation, they like to think no, that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

can't be with academia. Academia is definitely one of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

them. I would say, academia, big government, big tech,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

big corporations, and legacy media. Just a quick example.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I mean, in the last 10 years, you can see how all five kind of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

collude, they're like accomplices in a way. And it's a shame

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

because not every institution starts like this, I would say the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

majority of institutions, political, academic, theological,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

otherwise, they all start with the best of intentions, it's just

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

through loss of principles and objectives that they begin to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

lose their moral compass. But a quick example of how these

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

five work together if we were just taking example, in our society

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

today, in the last 10 years, there's not a year goes by that you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

can't find at least one giant pharmaceutical company.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I mean, we could take like, weapons manufacturers, whatever.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

But let's just focus there will focus on that. That in the last 10

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

years, not a single year goes by that not one of those big

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

companies is found guilty for some sort of scientific fraud or

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

have some some regard. Maybe its for, you know, millions

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

and if not billions, dollars in fines. So, here we can share,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Which makes you wonder what we're not knowing.

Dr. Brad Miller:

That's, you know, what they're getting what they're getting away,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

it's just what they caught, right? So if you just consider that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

here, we have evidence that big like Big Pharma, that's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

big corporation, okay, guilty. Now, the people that should be

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

holding them accountable, big government, but they're so

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

tied together, that they get a slap on the wrist, you know,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

they make trillions of dollars from a pharmaceutical drug and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

pay a fraction of millions off that trillion dollar offset. So

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

government is supposed to hold them accountable

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

academia, where they do the research for these drugs, if

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

all their funding comes from pharma and the big government?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Well, I can tell you what 100% of scientists agree with whoever's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

paying for their studies. Next, I shouldn't be hearing about this

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

on legacy media. But they they do quite a good job of keeping

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

this all hush hush, and us more concerned about what the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Kardashians or some other celebrities doing. And then, so

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I want to talk about it say on social media, well, then, they

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

have like carte blanche, they can censor me, shut me down,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

shadow ban. So the five of these are like, they work. That's just

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

one example, right? We'll just say pharmaceutical corruption.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

But you can see how five of them work hand in hand to really

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

in the way I see it, they murder the intellect. They are guilty of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

murdering the intellect when I steal, or withhold information

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

from you. I'm stealing from you the opportunity to conclude

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the truth to live your life in the truth.

Dr. Brad Miller:

You use that phraseology there, Travis.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Murder the intellect. Because I know that is where

Dr. Brad Miller:

you go with your book and with your thinking and

Dr. Brad Miller:

your teaching is how the individual has to take

Dr. Brad Miller:

responsibility for their own intellectual property as it

Dr. Brad Miller:

were your own mind, your own thinking, your own

Dr. Brad Miller:

decision making. And a lot of what you write about

Dr. Brad Miller:

is making high quality decisions to lead to high quality

Dr. Brad Miller:

life. And you use something I'm fascinated by via the

Dr. Brad Miller:

process here, you talk about an AI, I like to talk in my

Dr. Brad Miller:

teaching about thinking with discipline, and to apply

Dr. Brad Miller:

that kind of strategy, strategic thinking in your life. You

Dr. Brad Miller:

really bring back to us some ancient ways of thinking,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Ancient Future, if you will. if you could unpack that for

Dr. Brad Miller:

us a little bit you the subtitle of your book is ancient

Dr. Brad Miller:

liberal arts. Tell us a bit of what you're talking about

Dr. Brad Miller:

there and how we need to you mentioned about the

Dr. Brad Miller:

big, you know, the big business and big media and so

Dr. Brad Miller:

on how this individual approach can help us to deal

Dr. Brad Miller:

with all this pressure we have.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I'm trying to make this as simple as I can. I used to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

recommend this book by sister Mariam Joseph called

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

The Trivium, which talks about the first three of the seven

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

classical liberal arts, and that's what I'm also bringing forth

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

in my book. I'm just doing it in a more digestible way. I used

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

to recommend her book but people didn't find it, I don't know

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

sexy enough for entry getting it. It reads like a university text.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

However, it is such a great book, and I still recommend it to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

people. But nowadays people are looking-

Dr. Brad Miller:

well laid on me just for my own personal reference.

Dr. Brad Miller:

If nothing else, what is the book that you're referring to?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Here we go, I'm gonna hold it up for you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

just in case the video gets.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Okay, well, we're going to be posting this as well.

Dr. Brad Miller:

So the trivium. And who's the author?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Sister Miriam Joseph. It's the liberal arts

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

and logic, grammar and rhetoric.

Dr. Brad Miller:

We'll put a besides your book, I'll put a link to that

Dr. Brad Miller:

in our show notes to Dr. Brad Miller

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

People get a lot of benefit from that hour. The book

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

does it what it misses, is, it's not like and this is what I think

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

your podcast is all about. It's not providing any explanation

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

or examples of how the trivium or these liberal arts are

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

going to better your life or empower you. And if you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

recognize that we live in a world with, let's say, nefarious

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

agents who are out to murder the intellect, and then it is

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

your responsibility to, I mean, if I walked into a room with

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

some nefarious creatures, it's up to me to defend myself.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

But it's really become more information war. And so we

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

have to prepare our mind that needs to be a strong defense.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

So those first three liberal arts are the first three of the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

classical seven is knowledge, understanding and wisdom,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

or as Sister Miriam Joseph calls them more academically,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

grammar, logic, and rhetoric. And they go pretty simple.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

The first liberal art is compiling data information, naming

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

things and structuring, how to structure a statement. And

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

using proper words. The second liberal art logic or reason,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

or understanding, this is where you're constructing arguments.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

So once you know how to properly construct a statement, your

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

you know how to define your words, you use the correct words,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

respect for the words, then you form arguments, that's multiple

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

statements. So like an argument in, in logic, or in philosophy, an

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

argument isn't like a debate or a fight or a disagreement and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

argument is a minimum of three statements, two of which are

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

premises, one of which is a conclusion. Of course, you could

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

have many more premises, but it's a minimum of three

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

statements. And then the third liberal art is concerned that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

rhetoric or wisdom, wisdom is the expression of what you know, and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

what you understand. And that's concerned with effectiveness. So

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that was something I had to practice when I was communicating

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

with my family. For all the knowledge and understanding I had, I was

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

not an effective communicator. So those are the three liberal arts

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

now has to do with the quality of our mind and how we present

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that quality of mind to others.

Dr. Brad Miller:

So how do we start applying these in practical

Dr. Brad Miller:

sense, you know, you've, you've named them off here, the

Dr. Brad Miller:

trivium of understanding wisdom and knowledge. You

Dr. Brad Miller:

mentioned, you know, kind of in broad strokes, how important

Dr. Brad Miller:

they are. But let's get practical for a minute, Travis. So, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

let's just say that I'm in one of these conflicts, you know, politically

Dr. Brad Miller:

or health where you've rated COVID, you know, COVID's a huge

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing in our world the last couple of years to least help people, you

Dr. Brad Miller:

know, deal with that in their family know that, things like that. So can

Dr. Brad Miller:

you give us kind of a playoff scenario for us how we might apply

Dr. Brad Miller:

these areas in our life in order to deal with some challenging situations?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I think the first thing is that what you mentioned this brand, and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that was a that what you were saying from Dr. Or from Stephen

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Covey, pause, just pause for a moment. Think about the words you're

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

using that I always start with the words I use in defining terms. If you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

recognize there's conflict, like you're a bit heated or a lot heated, you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

have to practice recognizing that first otherwise you stay stuck

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

in the what you would call debate. I don't like debates, I prefer

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

discussion, because the debate assumes

Dr. Brad Miller:

debate indicates a winner or loser does

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Always the assumption that one must win one must lose.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

In a discussion done properly, yep, everyone wins. Because

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

most people are walking away a bit wiser. Of course, that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

requires deep right? Having a desire to learn. Yeah, that's the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

first thing when especially when you're talking to a loved one.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

When you're talking to a loved one remit, you have to remember

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

you both care about each other's outcome, that may help

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

with the pause. When you do then the first thing is to define

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

your terms. Let's make sure we understand one another. What is

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

it you're you're trying to say? And then I often try to repeat it

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

back in my own words to make sure that I do understand what

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

they're trying to say before I even give my opinion, because I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

may have to reflect maybe they were actually in agreement

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

with me. So pause or define your terms understand the other

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

party. And remember, above all, when it's a friend, family or co

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

worker, it's very likely that you're concerned with each other's well

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

being, you're not just doing this because you want to destroy a relationship.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Most of them, we do not really, truly wish the other party ill. We

Dr. Brad Miller:

just kind of think they're wrong. We think we're right, but we but

Dr. Brad Miller:

the realization is you just kind of put in those flat out terms that

Dr. Brad Miller:

it becomes a debate and people get defensive and put up walls,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and so on and so forth. And it's ultimately not helpful to the end

Dr. Brad Miller:

result, which is higher quality of life for others. And so if you can

Dr. Brad Miller:

find some way, and this is what you're helping us do here, and I

Dr. Brad Miller:

love it here, Travis, you're helping us find a process where we can

Dr. Brad Miller:

help both parties navigate this to come out to someplace of

Dr. Brad Miller:

mutual understanding, probably no one is going to be

Dr. Brad Miller:

completely, you know, bought into the other side. But if we

Dr. Brad Miller:

can find a way to live together, and find a way to enjoy one

Dr. Brad Miller:

another, and come out to a better place, that's a win, that's a win win.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And there's a lot of other things we can do to that's just the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

beginning for me. And that's just at the at the get go when

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

we're in the first phase of the trivium. Later, we really, yeah, logic

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

is really the key to the whole thing, you have to make

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

sure you're familiar with

Dr. Brad Miller:

You use a phrase logic is power to tell us

Dr. Brad Miller:

what you mean by that, in terms of our conversation here.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Many people falsely believe that like Knowledge is

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

power. Knowledge is not really power. Understanding

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that knowledge is what power is, right when I can, when I can,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Sometimes hard to call the proper application of

Dr. Brad Miller:

knowledge as well, I'll feel it Don't, don't you think about that. But

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I'll give you a clue or not clue, but an example. I can tell you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

what the Pythagorean theorem is A squared plus B

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

squared equals C squared and a two dimensional right

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

triangle. Okay, now you have knowledge. But if you it's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

far more powerful, if you understood that yourself, you

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

understand how it was derived the principles how to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

derive it, you can do it on your own, it's a much

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

stronger and more powerful mind than the one

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

that just takes in information and believes it. Because

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

although the Pythagorean theorem is true, if you if one

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

were to get in the practice of acquiring knowledge, that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

way, like I was just told, then that's a very dangerous and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

precarious situation. If you don't know how to verify yourself

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

through deductive or inductive reasoning, and the operators

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

have logic, then you are forever dependent on trusting authorities,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

when ultimately, you are the authority in your life. And that's the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

difference when someone has the skills of logic and they know

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

how to, like validate, does this conform to reason or not? That is

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

incredible power. Knowledge. I mean, knowledge is not

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

like I can't Brad, I have this phone right here in front of me, I can

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Google just about anything, knowledge is just pouring in

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

whatever I want. But I can't validate if it's correct or

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

incorrect, with logic, which is systematic, reliable,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

reproducible, stable, that foundation is incredible power.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And that goes the process, I believe because you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

we're talking about one of the things that people deal

Dr. Brad Miller:

with one of the things I was struck by just a few months

Dr. Brad Miller:

ago, Travis was Google Google search does a year end

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing about the year and search. And the end of the year

Dr. Brad Miller:

21. There wasn't top search terms and the top search term

Dr. Brad Miller:

in Google was Google was how can I heal. And I just thought

Dr. Brad Miller:

that was really kind of fascinating, because it just talked

Dr. Brad Miller:

about process, you know, that I'm hurting I want to heal.

Dr. Brad Miller:

But I also think it has to do with people have so much

Dr. Brad Miller:

access to information now. And you know, the whole

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing about information overload and whether it's, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

medicine or politics or anything else, or you know, entertainment.

Dr. Brad Miller:

There's so much out there, it's just can overcome us. And I think

Dr. Brad Miller:

what you're trying to do and what I'm really all about is helping

Dr. Brad Miller:

people get a process then to help find it for yourself, what's

Dr. Brad Miller:

for you. And in that process, you do have to narrow some

Dr. Brad Miller:

stuff down and you do have to simplify things, you know, if you

Dr. Brad Miller:

and I, for instance, could if we chose to, you know, we both

Dr. Brad Miller:

come kind of from a philosophy background, you know, we

Dr. Brad Miller:

could talk about, you know, Immanuel Kant or any number

Dr. Brad Miller:

of things we could talk about if we wanted to, or epistemology

Dr. Brad Miller:

and things like that, we could throw around terms that kind of

Dr. Brad Miller:

stuff that you and I could relate to, but it would not mean a hill

Dr. Brad Miller:

of beans to a lot of other people we're dealing with when we're

Dr. Brad Miller:

just talking about uh, you know, how you know stuff and how you

Dr. Brad Miller:

do stuff, you know, that kind of stuff. And so I want to go there

Dr. Brad Miller:

with you for just a second about you obviously wrote this book

Dr. Brad Miller:

with people in mind and situations in mind and want to serve

Dr. Brad Miller:

some sort of a, serve the public, you know, and I know that you

Dr. Brad Miller:

have some of your feelings about, about kind of traditional

Dr. Brad Miller:

self help type of things. But I believe in your heart, you're

Dr. Brad Miller:

wanting to try to help people get a process here. So let's

Dr. Brad Miller:

talk about how this book and how what you teach can

Dr. Brad Miller:

serve others, especially artists, use the term serve others

Dr. Brad Miller:

with love and the sense of, you know, really caring on

Dr. Brad Miller:

some deeper level, how can somebody use your book or

Dr. Brad Miller:

have to use what you teach, in order to be helpful in their life,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I put in this, first I kind of like, put forth the five

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

suspects, those legacy media academia, then I wanted

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

to give the trivium in the best, most easy usable, I like

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

what you're saying not in a way, like someone who's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

studied philosophy has a degree in philosophy would

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

talk about it, but it's super user friendly way. So they can

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

enter this, this realm with us that they also have the same

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

tools that you and I have. And in the remainder of the book, I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

spend the rest of it just talking about how just, there's plenty

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

more. That's why I loved the discussion around this, before I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

talked about the four areas of your life, that how they'll get

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

better, or that can get better. And some examples of how that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

might be a talked about how it's going to affect relationships,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

business decisions, health care, and politics. And those things,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

when left to rule by emotion, they are very erratic, unstable.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

emotions come and go, like how you how we feel about each

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

other right now, Brad, that can change in five minutes or five

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

months. That's right. And that's not what decisions should be

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

made on, especially about my health care, or my politics or

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

business. You know, I don't know anyone's successful in

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

business or any super healthy person that's making rash,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

emotional decisions. So it's all about slowing down. And I

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

really just want to restore reason to the world restore reasons,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

discussions, we all live together. I'm you and I, Brad, and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

we're not roommates. In fact, we don't even live in the same

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

country. But with your family, or my family, or whoever I live

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

with in same house, I want us to have a higher quality life.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And that means you restore reason to our discussions to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the home. I think that should also apply to my community

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

to my country, because ultimately, we're all kind of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

roommates on the planet. And that's the shirt. Yeah, look,

Dr. Brad Miller:

That's kind of what I'm sorry. I was just kind of what you

Dr. Brad Miller:

mean, when you talk in your book and you're teaching

Dr. Brad Miller:

about achieving preeminence? Is that where we're

Dr. Brad Miller:

going with this here now about how to come to that? That place?

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Yeah. That's what I mean with your podcast. Which, by the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

way, this Beyond Adversity, how many people need this

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

right now? And when you keep putting out quality

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

information, what happens? I mean, people see Dr.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Brad Miller as the trusted authority on over

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

on like, overcoming adversity, right? You become

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the preeminent person on that. And that's what we need.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

We need more people that are preeminent, not based on

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

emotion, but because of the loving service, the quality of

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

service, what they give and what they provide. Those are

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the people I want to see in preeminent positions. Those

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

should be the trusted authorities, not the ones that have

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

gotten there by leveraging malevolently our emotions.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

That's why these tools belong in the hands of not just

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

these giant, mega institutions, but they belong in the

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

hands of every one of my neighbors, friends and family.

Dr. Brad Miller:

All right, well, let's talk one, just one more track of

Dr. Brad Miller:

question or two for you. And it has to do with

Dr. Brad Miller:

neighbors, friends and family, and what you're touching

Dr. Brad Miller:

on there. What I'm going to get with you here, Travis is,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Has there been any situation or person or co worker, or

Dr. Brad Miller:

family member or for maybe someone who's been a No,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you said person sometime in the college world? A student

Dr. Brad Miller:

of yours perhaps who's followed some of your advice and

Dr. Brad Miller:

you've seen Okay. Let's see some change here. I see

Dr. Brad Miller:

something good happening here. I'm looking for a story

Dr. Brad Miller:

here now. something, some transformation

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

That happens with a lot of my colleagues actually, the COVID

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

was a crazy time, of course, like you've already said,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

and you could see it amazing. It just astounds me how

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

COVID was destroying families. Like they were being

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

broken up because of their They're diverging opinions.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And so what I saw with some of my colleagues, I teach

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

this with my colleagues all the time, the one and the more.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

The ones that spend more time with me get more of this

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

teaching. And one of the things that comes out is yeah, this

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

is many of my colleagues are expats. They they're not here

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

from the Netherlands, they come from Norway, Italy,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Spain, England, from all over. Sure. And so,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and you're an American citizen to make clear.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Yeah, so my I'm also an expat. I also live far away

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

from my family. And they all seem to be having

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

this similar breakdown where the brothers and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

sisters, their parents, they were just like, the relationship

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

breaking down. And I had already been like, years ago,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

long before COVID. I've already been through all this.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

And I, over the years, my relationship has completely

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

transformed, based on just taking time away, years

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

away, like becoming a preeminent person. Being firm

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

in my knowledge, my understanding, making sure that

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I know I understand what I'm talking about. And luckily,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

now I can pass this on and how to go about it and how

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

to hold these discussions so that people don't have to

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

go through kind of what I went through. One of my

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

colleagues, he's like, probably one of the most shining

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

examples right now. They're actually a couple of Palos

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

well, but they go home now, it wasn't my Italian colleague,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

he goes home now. His sister, his parents, all like fully on

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

border, he is now the preeminent health care. His

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

mother, as a doctor, a medical doctor. But he goes

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

home, he is the preeminent, he's the trusted authority

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

on health care now. Same with one of my Norwegian

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

colleagues, he goes home, and it's great to watch

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

them, do these things to find their terms, slow down,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

ask questions, understand the other party. The other

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

thing that they do really well, that I hope more people

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

do is stop attaching yourself to ideologies, opinions,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

and perceptions. We always use possessive pronouns.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

We talked about this earlier, BRrad the use of words.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

So when we stop using possessive pronouns, and use

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

like definite or indefinite articles before, so if you and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I are having a discussion, and we have opposed

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

ideologies, I would say, instead of, well, my opinion,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

I would say, well, here's a opinion. Here's another

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

opinion, what about this perspective, or that idea,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

instead of mine, yours, because, like you said, that's

Dr. Brad Miller:

and then also help people make their own decision as

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

why we get so worked up and emotionally reactive,

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

because we think we are being attacked, the more we

Dr. Brad Miller:

well, you know, you're not imposing your will on them,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you're helping provide a framework or process

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

where you've got this, you're attaching ourselves to this

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

stuff. And if, if the other party doesn't know it, that's okay.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

You have to be above that and know that, like, that's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

emotionally convicted as they are. That's simply their opinion

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

. If you want to help them, make a better decision or see something

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

more clearly. See, actually look at the evidence that contradicts

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

their ideology. That doesn't have to take years of struggle

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

and conflict. It can happen when you work on your rhetoric

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

or your wisdom, your expression of that knowledge and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

understanding and make that happen. You can what's

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the word I'm looking for? facilitate that? At a much quicker rate.

Dr. Brad Miller:

If you can be the facilitator, then you can be as you've

Dr. Brad Miller:

mentioned here, kind of the preeminent authority in that

Dr. Brad Miller:

process, and be helpful. I'm kind of all about how what can

Dr. Brad Miller:

we do in this world to be helpful and help people gain.

Dr. Brad Miller:

I like to use the word gain instead of goals sometimes,

Dr. Brad Miller:

to me, goal is kind of a setpoint and gain is kind of a

Dr. Brad Miller:

growing thing. And I'd like to be about that and I love

Dr. Brad Miller:

what you're sharing here because it helps people get

Dr. Brad Miller:

this process and helps give us at least some opportunity

Dr. Brad Miller:

for people to apply reason. You know, I come from the

Dr. Brad Miller:

world religion I'm a pastor, and but I come from a tradition

Dr. Brad Miller:

and where we use for in my Protestant particular flavor

Dr. Brad Miller:

of Protestantism we use for what we call the quadrilateral

Dr. Brad Miller:

a little bit trialing like to tranferred and it's applying to

Dr. Brad Miller:

your life to have a healthy life. Scripture as of as a

Dr. Brad Miller:

source of authority experience kind of the emotional

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing. Tradition kind of will be the best that we bring

Dr. Brad Miller:

from our past but also a reason using your head,

Dr. Brad Miller:

there's no reason to check your head at the door.

Dr. Brad Miller:

We call it the quadrilateral versus tradition and I

Dr. Brad Miller:

love that can be applied here as well. I think you've

Dr. Brad Miller:

given us some great things, some great tools to work

Dr. Brad Miller:

with. And you've told us a story of transformation

Dr. Brad Miller:

that's always looking for your own personal transformation

Dr. Brad Miller:

and how that applies to others. And you got some good

Dr. Brad Miller:

stuff to be helpful here to to other folks, Travis. So how

Dr. Brad Miller:

folks get in contact with you or get your book or learn

Dr. Brad Miller:

more about you? How can folks that-

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Thank you, Brad, we made it real easy, all

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

you have to do is go to www.restoringreason.com.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

If you go to restoring reason.com, there you can download

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

the first chapter of the book for free, no strings attached.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

That's what I recommend because at the very least you'll

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

get value from that book and you'll at least know the direction

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

it's going and then be able to make a better informed and

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

reasonable decision if it's information for you.

Dr. Travis Corcoran:

Hopefully, you don't miss that decision purely on emotion.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Here we go. Good stuff. Well, we thank you for being

Dr. Brad Miller:

our guest today here on the Beyond Adversity podcasts.

Dr. Brad Miller:

We're all about helping you to grow through what you

Dr. Brad Miller:

go through. Our guest today on Beyond Adversity,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Dr. Travis Corcoran, the author of Restoring Reason using

Dr. Brad Miller:

the ancient liberal arts to defend against modern manipulations.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Thank you Travis for being our guest today.

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