Shownotes
- What “evangelism” really is and what it looked and sounded like in the Bible.
- Why evangelism and discipleship were never meant to be two separate practices.
- How discipleship must include ongoing evangelism for Believers and unbelievers alike.
- Your responsibility when it comes to evangelism.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Transcripts
Evangelism and discipleship are not meant to be two different things, and often we think, hey, you do evangelism, someone says the Jesus in the heart prayer gets saved, and then sometime later, after coming to church for a while, they're going to get discipled.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I don't think those in scripture are two separate things.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, again, discipleship, the way that, that I like to define it, is the process for moving from unbelief to belief, yeah, in the gospel, in every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's no true discipleship without the gospel, the evangel, the good news at the center of it all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:You can't do discipleship without the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if the gospel of evangelism...
Caesar Kalinowski:is the applying of the good news, the gospel, to every area of life, well then discipleship's happening as long as we're living that way and inviting people into those rhythms.
Caesar Kalinowski:So one...
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship or evangelism is not actually accomplished, nor does it exist without the other.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey Heath, this is great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we were just talking to the folks.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're able to be part of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:No swearing or minimize that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because the edits will come in post.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Fix it in the editing room.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not vulgar people, but sometimes you either mess up or you say something.
Caesar Kalinowski:With a little more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you want a retake?
Caesar Kalinowski:For some reasons.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who knows why those reasons might be.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, uh.
Caesar Kalinowski:We plead the fifth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But this is fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, maybe we should always be doing this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't it?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't this how the Big Shots do it?
Caesar Kalinowski:They have like, you know, like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, they got a video set up and.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whole thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cameras.
Caesar Kalinowski:People running around the background.
Caesar Kalinowski:Lots.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, all of our staff is here watching.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, we have some amazing listeners of the show.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, that we've asked recently like, hey, would you write
Caesar Kalinowski:some reviews?
Caesar Kalinowski:And a big spike lately.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, which is great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Last few weeks We've shot up like somebody's sharing this.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, if you're if you're out sharing the show with people Wow, then you're being a blessing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Heath Hollensbe:just wanted to read out a couple of reviews A church plant man said love the content and the thoughts you guys share are extremely applicable.
Heath Hollensbe:So thanks church plant man Justin Wester said I look forward to the release of every Of this podcast every Monday.
Heath Hollensbe:It encourages me to follow the way of Jesus in my local context.
Heath Hollensbe:Homework, recreation, and it's always fresh and practical.
Heath Hollensbe:Every time I tune in, I consider it time well spent, and every time it ends, I want to go practice what I learned.
Heath Hollensbe:Awesome.
Heath Hollensbe:Boom.
Heath Hollensbe:What you
Caesar Kalinowski:could and should be doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love that.
Heath Hollensbe:And then, uh...
Heath Hollensbe:Our buddy David wrote in which is great.
Heath Hollensbe:He said this podcast shows you how to live a lifestyle discipleship Also, it's really easy to understand and it's not like listening to a thesis paper.
Heath Hollensbe:Heath and Caesar are a great team Their guest speakers are insightful.
Heath Hollensbe:Each episode is practical and biblical.
Heath Hollensbe:Some.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know how to spell thesis That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I thought it said the sis The sis.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talking about some CIS.
Caesar Kalinowski:Today we're talking about evangelism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And discipleship and how it fits together.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but more than that, are we talking about, is it starting to shift?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is the way, maybe compared to how, the way we were raised?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like here's what evangelism, here's your, here's your duty, here's your call, here's your...
Caesar Kalinowski:You know job or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and yeah, so we're talking about is that change changing?
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, I guess I'm gonna play my hand right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think it is starting to change.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it Yeah So as is often the case easier and we want to start out by defining what we're talking about Okay, this topic is evangelism and look for what sort of biblical precedent we can find to help us understand our
Caesar Kalinowski:starting point Good place to start right learn a few things see what the word says So, let me let me say before I jump into the text in the text when I say the word evangelism You Or evangelist, what, what first comes to mind for you?
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, the first thing is the, either a Billy Graham or the dude outside of like the Seahawks games with a megaphone
Caesar Kalinowski:screaming at us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Or the door to door kind of, you know, evangelism team
Caesar Kalinowski:at church that goes door to door.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, when I ask people that, and I have asked it often, like during that conference and all, that's always what people say.
Caesar Kalinowski:But generally it's like, yep, Billy Graham.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I was like, you ever been to one?
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we had, we've seen videos and like, well, my dad went to one or, you know, older people will say, yep, I went to one.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a really rare form of evangelism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:A person that's going to have the resources, skill set and, you know, abilities to fill stadiums full of people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's actually, it's very far from how the Bible uses that word as we'll see in a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:The bullhorn guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, that's not good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, we're going to talk about like the evangelism, the good news, what it needs to sound like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and then the door to door stuff, even Jesus spoke about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is that, is that really the model?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was that his model?
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's, but, but you're absolutely right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's.
Caesar Kalinowski:what people have come to mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's scary and creepy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Unnecessarily so, I'll just say.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as we're going to see here, it's uh, not that biblical.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first off, the word evangelism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Quote unquote, is not really found in the Bible anywhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But the word Or the distinction of a person being called an evangelist does.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's in, it's in Ephesians four.
Caesar Kalinowski:We talked to Alan Hirsch a few weeks ago about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, maybe you're, you're an evangelist, apostle, prophet, priest, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and then Paul, who was an apostle says to Timothy, also an apostle says, and don't forget to do the work an evangelist.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, also there's not a strong command, by the way, to go out in the streets and go door to door preaching to folks.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's just not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, when Jesus sends his disciples out, we have one example of this, one, where he sends his disciples out in two by two and says, go to someone's house and knock on it and, and pronounce peace on them, meaning like give them a good word, you know, like something that's like, Hey, life's good, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like life's okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if they return peace, meaning they're not like, get out of here, you know, like if they're like cool about it, invite you in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe offer you a drink or something to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, then stick with that person.
Caesar Kalinowski:It says, don't go to the next house.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hang out with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Build a relationship with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that's not necessarily the exactly what we're gonna do today thing, but the principles are there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Meaning you're gonna stick with a lot fewer people.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not a bomb door to door, you know, gospel track bomb.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, a Bible blitz.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, a Bible blitz.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's building relationships, stay with that person, don't go to the next place.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus actually seems like he's, he's sort of advocating for not going door to door.
Caesar Kalinowski:Seriously.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because why?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because there's no relationship connected to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're just, you're just blasting people, you're dropping off.
Caesar Kalinowski:It sells, it
Heath Hollensbe:feels like a sales pitch too.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Like, if you have a quota to meet, you know, I remember being at a church when I was younger and there was an evangelism team and that's what they, I mean they went out soul winning, door to door, come back, report the numbers, no relationship.
Heath Hollensbe:It was...
Heath Hollensbe:Ticking off a box, you know,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, it's crazy every single one of those people still in church to this day No, of course not at all.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like it's like a fraction of 1% You know, because they're not really winning anything and so Jesus knew this and so he talks about that So it's really none of those things.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not this giant onstage thing or rarely That's gonna be a rare gift and a rare occurrence and even the results of that have been pretty Pretty slim.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's unfortunate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, love Billy Graham, love what the association stands for, does in the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's an amazing thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Proud of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, historically though, the numbers of people who actually found a relationship and a life in community with Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And his people.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like half one percent or something like that after the sticking.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, because there's no relationship there again.
Caesar Kalinowski:So right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So typically, though, we think about evangelism more in the New Testament than we do in the old.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But obviously, God's been calling his people forever to proclaim his love and faithfulness throughout all the ages.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, God established the nation of Israel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like through his covenant with Abraham, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm going Bible nerd for a second, honest.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and he, he, he established Israel as his family to be this beacon of hope in the world, um, to people who were lost in sin and darkness, and in slavery, literally and figuratively.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, uh, that seemed to be the way of the world, and all the pagan gods were about sacrificing your baby and dumping him on a fire or in a pit or, and you had to appease this god, and And God wanted his people, Israel, and now the church, he, he wanted them to be this light of like, no, no, no, that's not how our God's like, that's not what life with him is like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, he was talking now too, not just someday in the future, which is a bonus and we get that too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, the word evangel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is where we get evangelism or, uh, uh, evangelist, uh, in both either the Old Testament or New Testament versions, means good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it should sound good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or glad tidings, which sounds like a super old timey phrase, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Old, you know, glad tidings.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I like it because glad tidings, what's that sum up?
Caesar Kalinowski:Does that sum up like...
Caesar Kalinowski:Bullhorn guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, not at all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Pissing you off and making you feel bad and want, I just wanna dump that guy's table over it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, ? No, not all.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so an evangelist, the word evangel, if it means good news or glad tidings, and by the way, that was a term, uh, used in the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Before ever there was the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it meant a person who would herold.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:The king would say, hey, by the way, we're reducing your taxes, by the way, we won that war, by the way, the flood's over, you know, by the way, and I want to let the people know, or I'm throwing a feast, or my son's getting married, or, so the evangelist would go out and proclaim good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now they had other people for the bad news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:An evangelist, literally, was the guy who got a killer job.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, got the most loved guy in the city.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, got to go out and say, hey, party's happening or, you know, war's over or We're all getting set free here, you know, so that you gotta understand that so that wasn't we didn't make up that term Existed so but they were a person who brought the good news or the glad tidings.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's key.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one would show up You know, in Old or New Testament, post church, as the church, no one would show up at a house or at work or at a party and announce, you know what, you all suck and you're going to pay for it someday.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wrath, you know, wrath of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you never find an example of, of that being tied to the word evangel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or evangelists.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not saying prophets never warned people, but they were called prophets.
Caesar Kalinowski:They weren't called evangelists.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is a different separation, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Different.
Caesar Kalinowski:And people were, when they were hearing evangelists, you know, they, they weren't hearing people, like I said, you know, gloom and doom messages, uh, you suck, you're going to pay for it, the end is near.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then everybody's going, hmm, that's good news, I needed that, you know, that's just not the right picture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we got to say that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Historically, biblically, even before the Bible, that's just not what an evangelist did, and it's not what Christian...
Caesar Kalinowski:Or even pre, you know, Israel, you know, Jewish Christians did.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, also, did Jesus ever ask us to do anything like that?
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ever?
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:Did he ever go and instruct his disciples to go out and proclaim doom?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, um, or was he announcing the good news of the kingdom of heaven?
Caesar Kalinowski:Of course.
Caesar Kalinowski:That there was a new rule in the reign.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the king was taking care of everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the king was here to make sure you were forgiven and well fed and...
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Would live forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's a good king.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what we see in scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely man.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what I see as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the good tidings to a nation, think about it, so when, when Jesus was out proclaiming and then his disciples, the good tidings or the good news to a nation that had been waiting for their Messiah king to come for hundreds of years was that he had come.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you go back and you look at most all of Paul's.
Caesar Kalinowski:What we would maybe term evangelistic types of messages or even Peter's like right at the day of Pentecost They were that I know, you know, I know you've been waiting forever for the Messiah, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:He's here He came that's good news, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's super good because they knew what that meant and all that now It was really good news, unless of course you liked working for your own salvation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some people did.
Caesar Kalinowski:They liked self righteousness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, or you like being your own God and savior, then it wouldn't be good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:If the Messiah coming meant you might lose your job or no need to be this type of person or earn your living that way anymore, that might not be good news to you, but generally people were waiting and this was super good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Evangelism then is speaking and living in a way that helps others.
Caesar Kalinowski:That would be Christians or not, believers, not yet believers, move from unbelief to belief in every area of life and about what's true about God, what he's now done for us in and through Christ, and how he now sees us, what's true of us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how we get to live in light of that and it's glad tidings brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, not condemnation So that's interesting to me.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's like, what's the most well known evangelistic verse?
Caesar Kalinowski:We're all taught to memorize it real early on and just in case you forget it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thank you Rainbow wig guy at the NFL games John 3 16, that's it right for God so loved the world that he gave his only son Son, that whoever believes in him shall have eternal life and not perish.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but notice what's crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:We skip it, we stop, we put the brakes on verse 17, right there, for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him, huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's right there coupled with our most favorite verse.
Caesar Kalinowski:We just chop it in half.
Caesar Kalinowski:We chop it in half.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So.
Caesar Kalinowski:So.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's important to understand.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that is sort of a biblical understanding of an evangelist, evangel, the good news, the word where we even get gospel from, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:And it, and to have that historical context too, like I said, those, those evangelists, man, when they start, when you hear their voice, you know, something good's coming.
Heath Hollensbe:Run.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Party's on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something's changing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So in light of
Heath Hollensbe:that, where does.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, all this weirdness in modern day evangelism coming, like, there's, there's obviously like, I'm sure most of our listeners would say too, there's creepy stigmas attached to evangelism.
Heath Hollensbe:And
Caesar Kalinowski:well, just like you said, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like if you think, okay, to be an evangelist and somehow be a good Christian or be obedient, I have to do this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I have to go door to door and, you know, hammer guys, or I have to tell them how crappy I had a buddy and I don't know if he's listened today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to out him because he, he's let me out him in books before, but Seth can't be Seth.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's happening, man?
Caesar Kalinowski:Brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, years ago, because he felt compelled to because he believed this is what he was supposed to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:He went door to door in his cul de sac and in his subdivision, I don't know, 60, 80 homes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:He went door to door with a stack of Bibles.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Extra heavy.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he, uh, he told people, he asked them if they wanted this and if they were interested in coming to church and learn more about God.
Caesar Kalinowski:If they said no, he said, okay, but I am compelled to tell you as a Christian, as a good Christian, You, by rejecting this and rejecting God and his word, you in fact will be going to hell and burning in fire forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:So just, I'm letting you know, my conscience will be clear.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was his good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Slam.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, doesn't sound like good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, now he, delivering the good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, now I can out him because he ended up, long story short, years later came to understand a much bigger and better, more beautiful gospel and he went back door to door and repented to those people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's me again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hold on, don't slam the door.
Caesar Kalinowski:I deserve that, but let me, let me apologize.
Caesar Kalinowski:I like the fake glasses and the mustache.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me apologize.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, totally.
Heath Hollensbe:I think the other thing that we tend to see and why evangelism gets weird is because we love ourselves more than we love God and even others, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I love me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you really love yourself and you like people to like you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you don't like it when you get the door slam in your face, you're not going to want to go out and stand on a stage and preach to strangers.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not going to want to go door to door and hand out tracks and give people kind of a harsh message.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not going to want to get on the stump or the box, you know, Pioneer Square in Seattle or down at the market, you know, Saturday market in Portland.
Caesar Kalinowski:And And just, you know, really, you know, lay it on people about how sinful and, and, you know, the wrath is coming.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not going to want to do that if you love you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, basically, it's never being received as good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you see how it's the wrong paradigm?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not even...
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What we're fearing, we should fear, because it's not God's ways and it wasn't Jesus ways in model.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, and, and I, and...
Caesar Kalinowski:So, the self love that's behind it is actually self preservation in a way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that sad?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it is sad.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the thing behind It is sad.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is sad.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, so,
Heath Hollensbe:this door to door kind of soul winning concept or even strategically putting time aside to go out and like share the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, special events where you do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not normal life, but you know, certain times.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's a
Heath Hollensbe:disconnection from the rest of your life.
Heath Hollensbe:I don't see Jesus living in this way, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So, would you argue, uh, that it can be done in a normal day to day rhythm, and if so, what's that
Caesar Kalinowski:look like?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and day to day rhythm, again, just so everybody's clear, we're not talking about day to day, carve out 15 minutes to go and blast your neighbors, or, you know, stop by the mall, or maybe at the Starby's when you pick up your coffee, just holler at a few people, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:In the drive thru, just freakin holler about the I got 30 seconds!
Caesar Kalinowski:In the wrath of God, and, did I, can I get some sweet and low with that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, It's my strong opinion.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, and I hope folks will believe me on this a little bit I've written about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've even talked about some of this in other episodes that evangelism and discipleship We're never meant to be two separate activities or practices or sort of experiences.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay evangelism and discipleship are not meant to be two different things.
Caesar Kalinowski:And often we think, Hey, you do evangelism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Someone says the Jesus in the heart prayer gets saved and then sometime later after coming to church for a while, they're going to get discipled.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I don't think those in scripture are two separate things.
Caesar Kalinowski:And again, discipleship, the way that, that I like to define it is the process for moving from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:In every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:In the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:In every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's no true discipleship without the gospel, the evangel, the good news at the center of it all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:You can't do discipleship without the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if the gospel of evangelism is the applying of the good news, the gospel to every area of life, well then discipleship's happening as long as we're living that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:and inviting people into those rhythms.
Caesar Kalinowski:So one, discipleship or evangelism is not actually accomplished, nor does it exist without the other.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, yes, to your question, does evangelism or can evangelism happen sort of in the normal day to day rhythms?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes, and it, I think it has to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because discipleship happens that way and discipleship's the process of moving people from unbelief to belief in the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:So how you can help someone move from unbelief to belief when it comes to say, you know, the way you talk to your kids, like when you're putting them to bed and you kind of shamed them about all the stuff they didn't get done today and tomorrow they better, they could do better.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and then you kind of hugged them.
Caesar Kalinowski:So now they feel like dad will love me more if I do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you going to address that from an evangelistic stage?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you going to scream that at the guy at Starbucks that you don't even know if he's married and got kids and how he parents?
Caesar Kalinowski:See, that's going to be all of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to have to do life together and, by the way, open up your life and home and heart to people so they see you parenting your kids and how you speak to your wife in marriage and what's your budget look like and does the gospel speak into all that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can we evangelize?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a person's gospel or, or their retirement fund.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can we bring good news?
Caesar Kalinowski:Does God have good news?
Caesar Kalinowski:I love you.
Caesar Kalinowski:I care for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know the end of your life from the beginning.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've already, I'm there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I got you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I proved it in my son.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, when Jesus came, I spoke love and generosity and care to the point of death unto you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, the gospel does speak to all of that, but not from a stage and not from like track bombs going house to house.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So in light of that.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, and we talk a lot about how it's, it's not even our job to save people.
Heath Hollensbe:That's the role of the Holy Spirit.
Heath Hollensbe:And so sometimes we think like it's our job and, and when we have that sort of mindset then people become tasks, you know, we, we forget the friendship or we have friendship because our alternative motive.
Heath Hollensbe:is to save this person.
Heath Hollensbe:So
Caesar Kalinowski:I've been that person's friend for years and I keep inviting him to church and then I'm just not going to be friends with him anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ouch.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's rough.
Caesar Kalinowski:You never see Jesus that way
Heath Hollensbe:ever.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So if the Holy, if the Holy Spirit's role is to lead people to Jesus, is there a point to even the old school way of like doing the soul winning, soul winning?
Heath Hollensbe:Or can we ditch that?
Heath Hollensbe:And what's our responsibility?
Caesar Kalinowski:You're hoping I'm going to say we can ditch it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I would
Heath Hollensbe:love to, to not have that class anymore.
Heath Hollensbe:What's our responsibility as Christians when it comes to evangelism?
Caesar Kalinowski:So, remember, like we were just talking, Jesus command to us is to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's it.
Caesar Kalinowski:He doesn't actually say, go out and evangelize.
Caesar Kalinowski:When Paul says to Timothy, don't forget to do the work of an evangelist while you're planting these churches, he's meaning, don't do this pragmatically.
Caesar Kalinowski:Make sure you apply the good news to every bit of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Jesus command, make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Evangelizing everyone in every area of life is what it's all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the command that Jesus had was never to try to, I gotta, I gotta talk someone into something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I gotta convince them that God's real.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, God said that the rocks will even cry at that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's plain.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's clear throughout nature So, um, he never said you got to get out there and you got to like convince your friends to say the Jesus in their heart Prayer scare him if you need to be scare him with some hell Let's go to the hell to say that prayer and then it's over.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and then get him to a church service That's what's next.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right forever, you know, like that's what they need.
Caesar Kalinowski:But in fact this requires time and Relationship and giving ourselves to others our lives.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Jesus did think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:He came from heaven to earth.
Caesar Kalinowski:He put on flesh.
Caesar Kalinowski:He hung out with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:He hung out with primarily, well, because they're humans, sinners, because that's every human, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And he gave his life unto death.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's what evangelism slash discipleship is really.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's what you could see what Jesus did, but it's also what his disciples did in the book of Acts and following up afterwards is they gave their life to people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not a moment and a message just by itself, stand alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:They gave their time, they gave their resources, they gave their hearts, they gave their prayer.
Caesar Kalinowski:They, they had broke, they lived with broken hearts as they shouldered the pain of other people's sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about what did Jesus do at the cross?
Caesar Kalinowski:He shouldered the pain of our sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the most evangelistic moment.
Caesar Kalinowski:ever in history is the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what was Jesus doing?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then he sent his disciples out and said the same thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And Paul said the same thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not my life anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's Christ I live and to die is gain.
Caesar Kalinowski:If I actually died like Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so he's not necessarily physically talking about heart cessation.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's talking about dying to this is my life and it's about me.
Caesar Kalinowski:A true evangelism is true.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is true evangelism and it'll take every bit of your life.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, we had said that a while back on one of the episodes.
Heath Hollensbe:Jesus model was like, just come and like, come and do life with me.
Heath Hollensbe:And we're going to flesh this out in life and you guys are
Caesar Kalinowski:going to fight.
Caesar Kalinowski:So did Jesus separate evangelism and discipleship?
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was one thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:He was the good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But he was also proclaiming the good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now there was going to be a new covenant where God would be God over his people.
Caesar Kalinowski:But now because of him, Jesus life, death, and resurrection, we'd actually get to live forgiven as his people by faith in him.
Caesar Kalinowski:So He was the good news, and discipleship and evangelism was all one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Lifestyle for him.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't this event he put on and say, okay boys, it's Tuesday, evangelism practice.
Caesar Kalinowski:You just can't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Soul winning
Heath Hollensbe:class.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So do you think that evangelism and also discipleship is changing these days in the church
Caesar Kalinowski:worldwide?
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I hope so.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think I see evidence.
Caesar Kalinowski:Me too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and I sure hope so.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I do think it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, you know, I just got back not too long ago from Finland.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, we've worked all over Europe and Eastern Europe, and God's been gracious to do that, and I am seeing it changing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm seeing more and more Christians and leaders in the church believing that They have a role in helping others experience the words and deeds of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, but also understanding that their church services or preach sermons or you know door to door soul winning activities is not enough and that the Holy Spirit like you were just saying is the one who moves and draws hearts and makes things Understandable and the Holy Spirit brings conviction and brings repentance.
Caesar Kalinowski:None of that is our job But over time in relationship with people, the spirit uses us and he works those things out in people, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So, I gotta be honest, it was both easier and harder in the past.
Caesar Kalinowski:The old school understanding of evangelism was easier and harder.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was easier when we believed we could just hand out tracts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, you know, I invited my friends to the crusade, and then to a church service, and now my responsibility is over.
Caesar Kalinowski:In some ways that was easier.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was kind of scary to ask them, but golly, it's like 10 seconds.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, they said no, they're rejecting, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it was harder because if we really did love people well, we carry this false weight, uh, that the person's salvation was on our shoulders, and so we really, we evangelism because it was too heavy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then if we didn't, And most Christians don't then we super felt guilty.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so we get kind of stuck in this loop.
Caesar Kalinowski:I feel guilty So I should do it more right, but God is so heavy How do I talk a person into like changing their whole worldview and accepting God and they suck and I have to tell him you Suck and God loves you though.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he died you make God die, you know, like, you know, oh So you get in this weird loop?
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think in the past it was both easier and harder and the truth is it's good to bring the good news Blessed are the feet of those who bring good news Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:everyone wants to be that person, the good news person.
Heath Hollensbe:All right.
Heath Hollensbe:We got to wrap things up because we are getting a little late here on time, but we want to get to the big three.
Heath Hollensbe:And for those of you who might be new to the big three, these are the three like takeaways, if you could distill this episode down to like the three things we want you
Caesar Kalinowski:leaving with.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can always get the PDF version, sort of a printed version of this case you're driving or you're at the gym or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com, big three, big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so first one, don't miss this.
Caesar Kalinowski:God does the drawing in the illuminating, the convicting, the granting of repentance and the saving.
Caesar Kalinowski:Salvation's his work.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we can join him in this amazing process as we're called to live lives that display what he's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:And through all of that, through all of life, our words, our actions, and we get to give account, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It says, be ready to give an account of how all this has happened and is still happening in our life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:That would be really good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, Hey, I was addicted to this and I'm not anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You were just asking me about that addiction and you're just like, there's hope.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second, remember that Jesus came to save the world, not condemn it.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says that, and in John 3, 16, we're reminded of that, and you know, let's not forget we've all received grace upon grace and mercy.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's endless.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's too much.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's God's kindness that leads people to repentance, not our stern warnings or accusations or pointing out their sin or our perfect evangelistic presentations.
Caesar Kalinowski:So never start off a relationship or even a conversation that's going to be about God and spiritual things by pointing out someone's sin and shortcomings.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just that's not good.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not a good place.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yeah, and that's not gonna lead them.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's God's kindness that leads us to repentance.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah third Start off by seeing everybody, you know that you know and meet as a fellow image bearer of God's they bear God's image Because the number one thing we have most in common with people is our need for a Savior Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're just like them.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're created in God's image.
Caesar Kalinowski:We had nothing to do with that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We received mercy.
Caesar Kalinowski:We should have dropped dead.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:From our rebellion.
Caesar Kalinowski:And everybody's just like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And while we may be at a different place in our journey, in our spiritual life, or our faith than others, our truest and greatest need that we have most in common with people is love.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that should bind us together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's super humbling.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so as the, as the old saying goes, the ground at the foot of the cross is level, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:So approach others who don't yet walk with Jesus, seeing yourself in them, because you're just like him, except apart from Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Invite them into a life, not a presentation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Heath Hollensbe:love that.
Heath Hollensbe:Thank you for those big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And again, if you want to download those, you can print them out and.
Heath Hollensbe:Put them in your car or put them on your mirror.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you know, if you're at the gym or you're driving or whatever, you're like, man, I want those.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to think about those.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why we give the download every week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope you'll join me again next week and every week as we continue to look at how discipleship fits into all of life and how you can lead others in this way of life, making it fun and reproducible as you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free free discipleship resources, visit everydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Heath Hollensbe:Does Our Evangelism Need to Change?
