Kevin Perlmutter is Chief Strategist & Founder of Limbic Brand Evolution - a brand strategy & neuromarketing consultancy. Kevin helps brand leaders get even better at attracting and retaining customers, by turning emotional insight into a competitive advantage. We discuss:

• It’s about focusing on what matters most [02:45]
• The evolution DNA as a key to achieving freedom [07:00]
• Disadvantages of nickel and dime conversations [08:34]
• What makes a great working relationship [12:40]
• Three steps to creating lead generation [16:00]
• Focus, connect and evolve [19:37]

Learn more about Kevin at https://www.limbicbrandevolution.com/ and LinkedIn.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:00:00

I have stamina.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:00:01

You got to keep going every day, you got to wake up every

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:00:06

Keep making connections, reconnecting with people who, you know, and

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:00:13

You need to focus, connect and.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:23

Welcome to smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:25

We help you get unstuck so you can do what you love and get paid.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:28

What you're worth consistently.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:31

I'm your host David Schreiner con today on smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:35

I'm speaking with chief strategist and founder of lympic brand evolution.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:39

Kevin Perlmutter, Kevin appeared on going solo in late 2020.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:44

He had just started his business at that time, following a long stellar

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:00:56

Stay with us to hear all the details.

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In today's episode, Kevin shares the importance of being a part

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:04

We created the smashing the plateau community, so that

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:11

That's why the comradery of supportive collaborative colleagues is the

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:20

You'll also find a range of tools and resources to support your consulting

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:28

Check out the smashing the plateau communities so that you can build

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:37

Learn more@smashingtheplateau.com slash community.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:41

That's smashing the plateau.com/community.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:44

Now let's welcome, Kevin.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:47

Kevin is chief strategist and founder of limbic brand evolution, a brand

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:01:54

He loves to work with CMOs brand and business leaders who want people to

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:00

Kevin has created the limbic sparks approach to brand strategy.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:04

He answers the question.

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Why should people care about your brand?

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And he supports the evolution of brand messaging service offerings.

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And experiences to spark brand desire with emotional intelligence.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:16

Kevin, welcome back to the show.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:19

Thank you so

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:19

much for having me great to be with you again, David.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:22

Yeah,

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:22

it's my pleasure.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:23

And, I'm looking forward to actually getting an update from you on how

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:29

The last time you were on it, you aren't going solo.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:32

And in late 2020 and your business, had, at that point had been around

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:40

And, maybe we should just start with an update.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:02:42

How have things been.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:44

I've been having a blast.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:45

First of all, I love what I'm doing.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:47

I'm never looking back.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:49

I'm going to be in business for myself for as long as I can envision and businesses.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:53

Good.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:02:53

it's been tough with, the state of the world that we're living in

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:00

And the momentum in my business is picking up.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:02

That

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:03:03

is so great to hear.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:03:04

And particularly for other folks that are either.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:03:09

Desiring to go solo or maybe have gone solo.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:03:13

And the beginning is always the hardest knowing that you can look forward and

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:03:21

I think it's great for people to hear that.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:24

Yeah.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:24

It's, the trajectory that I'm on for the last several years and honestly,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:38

I'm always looking to be in a situation where I'm learning new things.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:44

I'm inspired by what I'm doing, where I'm on the edge of the frontier

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:03:51

I come from, many years ago advertising and as the mobile internet evolved and

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:02

And then I moved into Sonic branding and learning about neuroscience

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:06

And now I'm focused on emotional insights and how they can

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:11

And I always want to be on the edge of a frontier and focusing on the things that

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:18

But it's also about alignment with my personal values and my life and being

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:32

It allows me to spend time informing.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:35

Where I love to be, and nobody can tell me whether or not I have

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:40

I do.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:41

I'm a woodworker.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:42

I build furniture.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:43

I have a shop in Vermont and I have a shop in my home in New Jersey.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:47

I love running.

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And I'm also since, being independent, I've become a board member of a nonprofit.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:52

Called rise.

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It's a social services, nonprofit in central New Jersey, helping

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:04:59

And, I do a lot of brand development work.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:05:02

just traditional volunteer work, handing out food at food

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:05:07

So I'm really focusing on what matters most in my life and in my business and

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:17

That is so great to hear.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:18

First of all, congratulations on everything you've achieved so far.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:22

Thank you.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:23

And being able to integrate what's most important to you in your

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:28

One of the things that I see professionals struggle with when

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:41

It's all about getting enough business to just support your lifestyle.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:45

Unlike going from job to job where your income may go from a hundred percent to

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:05:58

It often takes time.

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So the beginning of people are trying really hard to.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:03

Maintain their lifestyle and get business up.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:06

But one of the things that I see happen quite frequently is they create a business

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:15

I would say almost like a glorified job where you don't have a boss

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:22

So your boss is actually yourself, but you end up not having the kind of

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:30

You can spend time running.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:31

You can spend time working on, on hobbies.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:33

You can spend time volunteering and also run a successful business

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:41

They often feel like they end up having their business, run them

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:46

And it sounds like you've done a pretty good job of running your business as

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:06:51

You.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:06:52

I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:06:54

like any entrepreneur, the head games gets you all the time and you're always

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:00

And you're always wondering if it's enough or if it's too much,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:05

And all of that goes through my head and I think I am.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:09

I'm quite, my brain goes in a lot of different directions, like a lot of

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:16

This is what I intend to do for a long period of time.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:19

I'm very driven to not only be successful, but also to, improve things as I do.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:26

That's also part of my DNA evolution as part of my DNA, my business is called

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:38

And I'm constantly monitoring how it's going and looking for things

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:44

I have a, I'm looking at my wall right now, which I have filled

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:51

Not working try this.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:52

And I just keep that list updated.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:07:54

I focus on the things that are going and I evolve and fix and try things

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:00

And I just keep experimenting.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:08:02

Kevin, tell me a little bit about your business model,

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:08:18

What have you decided to do in terms of your business model?

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:21

let's start with what I do.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:23

I'm a brand strategy and neuro marketing consultant.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:26

I help brands create stronger connections with the people who they want to reach.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:30

I help people feel more connected to the brands that my clients.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:35

And I do that by providing a brand strategy consulting.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:40

I am very wedded to emotional insights because emotion is the

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:47

It's the thing that matters most in the relationship that any business.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:08:52

B2B or B2C or otherwise has with its customers because,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:00

We instinctively move toward the things that make us feel good and move away

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:08

So what I'm helping my clients do is recognize what they're doing in the world

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:20

And what I'm also doing is I'm helping them understand more about what makes

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:39

So my business model is consulting.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:41

I am doing a lot of investigative research.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:44

I'm doing a lot of qualitative.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:47

Interviewing and qualitative research to help my clients get to a brand strategy.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:53

That's going to be emotionally motivating to the people that they want

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:09:59

And then I'm providing support in how they activate that strategy and

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:13

That's what I do.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:15

My business model is.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:17

That I work with clients on projects on a fee basis.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:20

I like flat fees.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:22

I know how long it takes me to do the work that I need to do.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:25

Within reason I can develop a fee estimate for a client based

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:32

And over a period of time, I'm not very interested in.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:37

Having nickel and dime conversations with clients about,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:42

These are not things that I care to get into, nor is it good for any business

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:52

So the clients who I work with, we agree on a scope of.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:10:56

We agree on a fee proposal over a period of time, that includes

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:11:01

And then as the work evolves over time, we extend that scope of work

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:11:08

And we keep going some of my projects last for.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:11:11

A month, some of them last for nine, 10 months with

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:11:16

That's the model that I go after.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:11:18

Yeah, no, it sounds like a very healthy model, but

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:11:28

Dealing with a time-based pricing model.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:11:31

The time is it doesn't necessarily have a relationship to the value

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:11:38

And in fact, I believe that there's a strong conflict of interest between

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:11:44

If you're using time-based billing, because if the client has a problem

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:12:03

For the client, if it's a time-based business model, the client wants

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:12:14

And the consultant wants the number of hours to be as high as possible

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:12:21

Again, doesn't have anything to do with the value that.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:12:24

So

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:12:25

I agree completely.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:12:26

I have no interest and I'm never going to work on an hourly basis for

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:12:32

I don't even necessarily, it's not important how many hours I plan to

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:12:42

What's important is that my client feels like they're getting everything they need

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:12:50

Within reason during the period of time that we're working together and that

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:01

And to me, that works really well.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:03

and all of the clients that I've worked with since I started my company have

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:10

And I've not had one client who ever felt like they didn't get value from her work.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:13:15

Yeah, that speaks highly of you.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:13:17

And it also speaks highly of the relationship you're were

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:13:23

And it, it also speaks to, did the fact that you have good

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:31

And it's important for me to have good clients.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:34

when I talk about focusing on the things that matter most, it's also about spending

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:42

Look into working with me and who ultimately we agree to work together.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:47

These are people who I want to spend time with.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:49

I've had conversations with potential clients where I've not been very

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:13:59

I've also spent, time, a lot of time with the clients that have decided

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:10

So it's really about, again, getting to do the work.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:13

I love with people who I enjoy being around.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:16

And that's how I focus my efforts.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:18

And the other thing is I work independently, but I also occasionally

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:38

And there are also opportunities that I have to bring in freelancers

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:44

And again, I choose to work with people who I enjoy spending time with, because

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:49

We have a good working relationship.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:51

We know how to, make each other's work better.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:54

And we have respect for each other's process and time and skills.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:14:58

and again, those are the people who I just love doing work with.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:01

There are partners out there who I just can't wait for the next project.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:15:04

Kevin, one of the challenges that consultants face,

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:15:14

if you've been doing things for a long time, and in particular, you have

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:15:27

They may be reaching out to you more than you're working on lead development,

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:15:35

What have you found has worked well for you when it comes to lead generation?

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:40

There were a few things, when I started my business three years

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:50

It's my background.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:51

I have respect for brands.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:53

I think brands.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:54

I didn't want to be Kevin promo or freelance brand strategy consultant.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:15:57

I wanted to be the chief strategist of a brand with a point of view

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:04

So for me establishing my brand and what it's all about was an important first

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:17

The second thing is really about maintaining and connecting and

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:26

So for me, I don't know, I've had five or six jobs in my career working for

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:39

I'm not big into, believing that a lot of the tactics that salespeople use to

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:48

It might be for some products or services, but for my business,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:53

It's about building on the relationships that I've already had.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:16:56

It's about meeting new people and establishing strong relationships.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:00

It's about earning people's trust, getting them to know who

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:04

I'm part of a, of a networking group called collaborate X, which I've been

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:11

I've met a tremendous number of wonderful people.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:14

And that's expanded my network of relationships from where it

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:20

And it continues to be a wonderful way to, The part of a networking

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:25

We support each other, we inspire each other and we also have the

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:35

Like some networking groups are in terms of passing leads.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:39

It's more about peer advisory, but it works both ways.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:43

And then the other thing is I'm very active on LinkedIn

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:48

So I'm a featured writer for a branding bag, which is a brand strategy and

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:17:57

That's a, well-regarded around the world, in my field and among clients

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:04

And, I've for the past year and a half I've written.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:07

And published nine articles with them.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:10

We did a webinar last January, and we're going to do another one in

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:16

So writing is important to me.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:18

I have my own podcast, let's talk limbic sparks, which is a podcast where I get

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:33

By turning emotional insight into a competitive advantage.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:37

So they're practically doing the things that I'm coaching my clients on doing.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:42

So I get to hear those real stories and on LinkedIn, I stay present.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:46

So people, in marketing, it's called awareness and familiarity.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:18:49

I call it reminding people that I'm alive and that I, I'm the brand strategist you

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:18:58

Kevin, what do you think is the most important thing?

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:19:01

To keep in mind when you're starting a consulting business.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:19:05

If you want to have a branded consultancy, like you've done.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:10

I think you need stamina.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:13

said, what's the most important thing to keep in mind.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:16

It's not going to be easy.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:18

have stamina.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:19

You got to keep going every day, you got to wake up every

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:25

Keep making connections, reconnecting with people who, you know, and

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:31

You need to focus, connect, and evolve.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:34

You need to focus on, the unit.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:36

And desirable, motivating purpose of your brand, what it is you're in the world

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:42

You need to connect, which is strengthening connections with the

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:19:52

And then you have to continue to evolve, creating communications and experiences

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:01

This is how I help my clients.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:02

And I apply my own thinking to my own business.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:05

And again, I'm focusing on the things that matter most, and I'm

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:12

Well said, Kevin, is there anything else you

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:16

I, again, I really appreciate you having me on the broadcast.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:19

I'm always thrilled to speak with you and I'm just happy to be here.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:24

Thanks.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:24

we've covered a lot of territory, and in particular, A lot of

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:31

First of all, congratulations again, on how you've done it.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:34

Yes.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:35

Stamina is really important.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:36

Persistence is really important.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:38

Things like this don't happen overnight.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:40

If somebody wants to get in touch with you or learn more about.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:45

What you've done or your business or access any of the resources you have.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:48

I know that you mentioned that you have a podcast and you write regularly.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:52

If anybody wants to access any of that or get in touch with you, where

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:20:57

Certainly,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:20:57

people could certainly find me on LinkedIn, Kevin Perlmutter,

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:10

You'll find information on my, approach to brand strategy rooted in the limbic

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:17

They'll you'll find an emotional intelligence blog where there are

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:24

Podcasts that I've been on and you'll find the limbic sparks podcast page

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:34

And you'll also find on every page in the top banner, a meet with Kevin link.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:38

And if anybody wants to set up some time with me, click that link.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:43

Find a slot.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:44

It sounds

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:21:44

great.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:21:45

Kevin, I want to thank you again for coming back and being a guest again.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:21:49

This time on smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:21:51

My guest today has been chief strategist and founder of limbic brand evolution.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:21:55

Kevin Perlmutter.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:21:56

Thank you again, Kevin, for joining us.

Kevin Perlmutter: 00:21:58

Thank you so much.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:02

When you visit the smashing the plateau

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:17

We created the smash in that plateau community.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:19

So that members would be supportive of one another's consulting businesses.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:23

That's why the comradery of supportive collaborative colleagues is the

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:32

You'll also find a range of tools and resources to support

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:36

Access to experts and answers to your burning questions.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:40

Check out the smashing the plateau communities so that you

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:46

Doing what you love and getting paid.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:48

What you're worth.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:49

Learn more@smashingtheplateau.com slash community.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:53

That's smashing the plateau.com/community.

David Shriner-Cahn: 00:22:56

Thank you for taking the time to listen to our show.