Dr. Almitra L. Berry is a nationally recognized speaker, author, and consultant focused on the education of culturally and linguistically diverse learners in America’s K12 education system. Her research focuses on equity and academic achievement for marginalized learners – particularly in majority-of-color, low-wealth, large, urban school districts. She hosts the podcast, Educational Equity Emancipation; is the author of the book, Effecting Change for Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Learners, now in its second edition. Her upcoming books Equitable Classroom Practices for Culturally & Linguistically Diverse Learners, (coming this fall) and Teaching Multilingual Speakers of Sociocultural Languages along with numerous other articles focus on educational equity and instructional practices for classroom educators.

She is the content expert for multilingual development in Perfection Learnings Connections Literature and equity consultant for Savvas Learning’s Experience Science.

Takeaways:

• The Educational Equity Emancipation Podcast addresses the challenges faced by marginalized learners in public schools.
• Dr. Almitra L. Berry emphasizes the importance of creating culturally competent educators who connect with students.
• Teachers should strive to create psychologically safe spaces within classrooms for optimal learning.
• Feedback is a gift that can inspire growth and resilience in both educators and students.
• Connection with students on a personal level can significantly enhance their learning experience.
• Diverse methods of assessment allow students to express their understanding beyond traditional essays.

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LSPR

The podcast is the Educational Equity Emancipation Podcast, and it's focused on really addressing a lot of the education policy and practices and the challenges that face marginalized learners, in particular in America's public schools.

I still found that there were far too many times where I called it the corporate muzzle that was put on me.

And I could not always say what was in the best interest of children without risking my job.

The culturally competent educator walks teachers through developing cultural competency with the communities that they serve, connecting with their students, creating those safe spaces, a psychologically safe space in the classroom so that every child can receive instruction and thrive.

We so often forget to go back and thank those teachers who've made a tremendous impact.

I'm in a new school.

I've had this horrible trauma.

I'm in this room, a classroom where I'm very, very shy.

Not anymore, clearly, but at the time is very, very shy, withdrawn and traumatized.

But she saw me, not the way I would describe myself right now.

In that, in that frame, she saw my potential.

Don't ever let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do, right?

Don't ever let anyone else put limits on your ability and your future accomplishments.

Don't ever stop fighting.

If it's something you want, go for it, and don't let anyone put limits on it.

There's just so many different ways that kids can show what they know besides writing an essay.

I think it's a wonderful time to be able to get children to express themselves and their knowledge in ways that we never could before.

And we, as educators, we need to tap into that.

That was Dr.

Elmitra L.

Berry.

She's a consultant, podcaster, author.

We have a wonderful conversation about our shared passion about child centered, child focused education and her journey about how she's been able to do that and make such an impact in the world.

Thank you to the national association for Primary Education for their continual support of the show and I hope you enjoy this as much as I did.

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Fire podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors, share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Elmitria, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Fire podcast.

It's always great to speak to people across the pond, so to speak, but also people that are fellow podcasters and just sort of love sharing their message around the world, which is a fantastic thing.

I Think for every.

Everybody listening.

So, yeah, thanks so much for joining us here today.

Thank you for having me.

So why don't we start with the podcast?

Tell us a little bit about that and what it is that you're.

You're telling people as they.

As they go through your journey.

Sure.

Well, the podcast is the Educational Equity Emancipation Podcast, and it's focused on really addressing a lot of the education policy and practices and the challenges that face marginalized learners, in particular in America's public schools.

When we talk marginalized, and I know since we are across the pond from one another, our children of color are children who have come to the United States from other countries, children who may be born in the United States but speak a language at home that is not the English that is spoken in school, whether it's English or another world language or a heritage language.

And then unfortunately, if you're familiar with America's politics, there are a lot of things that are happening to schools and in schools that adversely affect a lot of children.

So really focusing on what's happening, their needs, and when there is nothing horrible happening, which unfortunately is not often enough, then I get to focus on my first love, which is providing good, high quality education for children.

Amazing.

So where did that passion come from?

Where did the sort of the education background start?

Yeah, well, I was a classroom teacher first.

It was actually a second career.

My mother threatened me when I got out of college.

She said I could not live at home for free unless I got a teaching credential, which is not what I intended to do with my life.

But as life has it, I found my way to a classroom and absolutely fell in love with teaching and working with children.

But I have this thing on me called a mouth and an opinion.

And it was difficult for me to be quiet when I saw things happening that were not in the best interest of the children that we were supposed to serve.

So ultimately, I left the classroom and worked in educational services, educational publishing, and I got to go into schools across the country, in Canada, across the Caribbean, where I could work with teachers who were serving children and help them become better practitioners for all of the children that they served.

So that's where all of that comes from.

Yeah, and I saw a lot.

Yeah, I love that because, well, it struck a chord with me, that kind of having an opinion and having to sort of work within the system and the framework of that.

How far do you go?

How far do you try and make a difference within the setup that you are?

But also, you know, like I say, where your voice is best heard.

And I love the fact that people are able to kind of take themselves out of it, but still give so much value and help sort of, I don't know, mold the education system with a child first, a child centered idea of education, because then you start to feel like you're making a real difference, I think.

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's still hard for me to keep my mouth shut.

That's why I have a podcast even in corporate America working, you know, as I did there, as much as I enjoyed the work, I still found that there were far too many times where I called it the corporate muzzle that was put on me.

And I could not always say what was in the best interest of children without risking my job.

So it just became easier, say, you know what, I've been around long enough, I've made enough contacts, I can do what I'm doing outside of the corporate arena and still serve children.

And so I became an independent consultant, started my own little business, and somewhere along the line, this idea of podcasting came.

And I guess I took to it sort of as a debt to water.

As it were, and take us into the world of being a consultant.

And I know as an author and as a speaker, all of these things, they sort of come from the same space, but there are sort of different outlets in different ways, aren't they?

So sort of talk about what that's like to be able to sort of live that life with those sort of different identities.

Yeah.

Well, I'll tell you one thing, it is not at all glamorous.

And that's what a lot of people think, that, wow, you get to travel all over and you get to see a lot of things and it's like, yes, But I wouldn't say I get to travel.

I have to travel.

Working with schools as a consultant gives me an opportunity to.

To dig in a different multiple ways.

Right.

So I get to look at classrooms, which always just brings a smile to my face.

To see kids learning just fuels me, and it fuels my passion when they are not learning as well as they should.

So I get to work with teachers and help them understand the importance of being a practitioner that is culturally aware, culturally competent, and serving the needs of the children that are in front of them.

And sometimes that is a little bit at odds to what we're taught when we go through teacher credentialing or teachers college.

So I write because of the writing.

I do a lot of speaking.

Sometimes the speaking means that people say, hey, we want you to come into our school and work with our teachers directly or into our classrooms.

So it's sort of like the three are intertwined and enmeshed, and each one feeds the other.

It's really a unique place to be.

I'll say it is.

It is not for the weak of heart or faint of heart, because it's not easy work.

I have seen things across this country that make me sad that I'll try and use.

I always say I try and use my in school vocabulary that anger me, that frustrate me, but that also drive my passion.

And it just.

It's a continuous reminder that my work is not done.

Yeah.

And I really identify with that because the reason this podcast started was because I was going into multiple schools doing music.

I'm a professional musician.

I was going in doing workshops within schools as well.

And there was always that teacher in the staff room, almost literally banging their head against a brick wall, going, I got in it to support children, to help change lives, you know, to give people a real good start in life.

And I'm caught in the system.

You know, I'm tick boxing.

I'm testing all of that kind of stuff.

And I, in the same way, like, you get angry about what's going on.

But I was fortunate enough to be able to see something interesting or something unique or something positive happening in a different school.

And I thought, well, if I could just share that message, maybe it's something they could change immediately.

Maybe it's something or a program they could take to their senior leadership to talk about, but at least it suddenly means you don't feel quite so isolated.

And I think that was the real gift of seeing all the positives, but also about being one step removed.

Yeah.

I'll tell you, as a classroom teacher, you do.

You can very often feel isolated, like you're the only one who understands that other people aren't, you know, don't seem to have the same vested interest as I do in what happens in my classroom.

It's certainly something that I felt often.

And part of what drove me out of the classroom to that next step, to be able to do good things for more children than just the 25 that I had in my classroom each year.

But, yeah, it's.

It's teaching can be extraordinarily rewarding, but also extraordinarily lonely.

And what I, you know, one of the things I find most humorous, and you probably do, too, is that everyone thinks that their situation is unique in their school.

But I.

So it's been been 22 years that I've been doing this.

Gosh, 22 years.

And I stopped counting after I had worked with 700 different school systems here in the U.S.

so it's like, honey, I've seen it all.

I have been pretty much everywhere.

I still have four of the United States to get to, but I, I have worked with school Systems in, in 46 of our 50 plus, you know, you got Canada and some, some of the countries across the Caribbean.

It is the same everywhere.

It really is.

And that's both fortunate that we know what's happening and that because we know what's happening, we also know what is working and what is not working.

So we have information to address it when we see somewhere else.

But it's also unfortunate that it is still happening.

Right?

We are still seeing failures and damage done to children.

Yeah.

I mean, it really is mind boggling, isn't it, when it's so obvious in so many ways but no one's able to step forward and just steer the ship in a different direction.

I think partly because it's all about what's going to happen next month or next week or certainly I know you've got elections coming up and all of that sort of thing.

These cycles happen so fast that it's really, really hard to kind of say, we know that if we do this now in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, we're going to be in a very different place and support everyone on that journey.

Yeah.

You know, I have too often said we know what to do, we've seen it work.

Why are we still not doing it right?

If we just follow the science, if we just do what's right, I could retire.

I've been saying I could retire for 22 years because we know what to do.

If y'all would just follow instructions, I could retire.

But here I am still.

So that takes me into the question, which I'm fascinated about, almost where we started in terms of the system and how you work within it.

Because as you said, you know, you're in this ideal position or unique position where you can kind of dip in and out of any given school, support, give them the information they need to help them.

But for those people that are still within the system, what, how is it that you're helping and what is it that you're saying and how are you making a difference?

While I'm assuming they're still frustrated or they're still within that kind of almost Handcuffed situation.

Yeah.

Well, the first thing and the biggest thing that I always talk about is culture.

You know, what's the culture of the system that you're working in and what can we do to shift the culture so that it's healthy?

The other is psychological safety.

Developing that not just as a school system or a school, but all the way down into your class.

Because just because it's.

It's challenging at a system level doesn't mean that you can't make some adjustments within your classroom.

You know, teachers who have tremendous autonomy as to what goes on in their classroom can create that place and that space in the classrooms that they're in.

And yes, you still are going to have to deal with the bureaucracy and the politics and the culture of what is your school, but that's a place that I always like to start, and that's creating that culture in your classroom and working towards having a psychologically safe space for every single child to learn.

I also work on building community.

Right.

Because we don't want to feel like we're the only ones and that we're isolated.

So I have started.

It's sort of a new project for me, building a community on Patreon where teachers can talk to one another, where they engage in book study, where we can have conversations.

So it's sort of fledgling, but in time, in time, just building that safe space in a community online for other people to come in and plug in and sort of dip in and dip out as they need to, to get that.

Those, you know, the affirmations, some.

Some assistance that they might need, whether it's through book study or watching a webinar or just, you know, having a conversation with someone else that's in that community that's, you know, working towards the same goals.

I really love that because I think one of the things as a podcast, do you feel, is that you're often sharing this information and you might have a community, whether it's a Facebook group or something like that, where you kind of having these conversations.

But I think having a proper safe space where you can communicate, sometimes you need support as a teacher coming in, but, you know, the next week you're in a good place and it's someone else that needs that support and being able to be open and share where, you know that honesty is going to be helpful across the board.

I think that's very powerful.

But it's also something which is a bit of a gift, to be honest.

Honestly.

It is, yeah.

And it's challenging.

You know, it's it's challenging for people to find that space and to feel comfortable in it, but it's something that.

That we have to have.

And, you know, maybe you like me.

Sometimes when I'm podcasting, I just feel like, is anybody hearing this right?

Who am I talking to?

I sort of speaking it out into the ether and not always knowing did it make a difference.

But I.

I do understand because people have come back and said, you know, when you said whatever it was on whatever episode, and I'm like, maybe because there is so much in terms of content and things that I say, you know, you do this once a week.

There's a lot of stuff that you say.

But when someone tells me that they heard me say X, Y and Z, and it really made a difference in how they, you know, adjusted their practice or how they saw things working or something that they could say or assist with or whatever it was, it touched them and made a difference.

Again, this, you know, it's like me seeing kids in the classroom that are learning.

It continues to fuel me and keep going.

Yeah.

And interestingly, that.

Because that's one of the reasons I started doing some of my live shows was because I wanted some of that interaction.

So we've been able to stream onto YouTube where people can interact in the comments.

You can bring them up, you can have multiple people as part of your conversation going on.

You really get that immediacy, which is something I really like.

I think that's the performer, the musician in me.

It's.

It's that live element, which is something that I really enjoy.

But, yeah, I can certainly understand what you're saying there.

Yeah, I'm not that skilled yet.

I'll get there.

Baby steps.

Exactly.

We should come on our show, first of all, and then you can come on as a guest and share those conversations with some people.

And then we enter into that world together.

Fantastic.

So take us into your new book.

And I'm fascinated as to how you approached it and specifically how you organized it.

Yeah.

So the book that's coming out this spring, there's a bit of a hiccup, and I have shifted publishers.

It will now be released by Corwin.

And was the title.

We just.

We just came up with a new title, the Culturally Competent Educator.

And it.

It really comes from that work that I was doing.

Where I was, what I was seeing was that teachers were not connected to the children that they serve.

Sure, they could go in, they could teach a lesson.

They could deal with the lesson plans and delivery and data, but not really connecting at a level with their children and understanding who their children were and what they brought to school that needed to be valued.

And probably the biggest amongst that, what I found has been the language that they come to school with, which has now fueled the research that I'm doing for another book.

But the culturally competent educator walks teachers through developing cultural competency with the communities that they serve, connecting with their students, creating those safe spaces, a psychologically safe space in the classroom so that every child can receive instruction and thrive in that space.

I go through grading systems, developing a syllabus, some of the things that you can do in lessons that will help to develop that sense of community, and respecting every child in the culture that they come from.

So it's really a sort of a step by step how to.

For all of the things that you in the classroom that touch the lives of children.

And, you know, this one was a little bit easier than the last one because last one or last two have focused on really specifically narrowly on instructional practice.

And that meant I had to keep it, you know, like, for elementary teachers.

So this one is K12, which I'm really excited about.

So it doesn't matter if you teach the Littles or you teach the ones that are, you know, about to enter the world of adult life and work.

There's something.

There's a lot in it for everyone.

So I'm really excited about it coming out.

And we are looking at April as a firm release date.

Amazing.

And.

And I think that the seed there I find really fascinating because it's.

The one thing I hear quite a lot is the episodes go by here on the show in terms of.

It's that knowing who your children are exactly like you said.

And it might just be, you know, the fact that they had a football match over the weekend or, you know, there's something going on, or there's how their siblings work or they're.

One of their parents maybe works away or one of them is sick or whatever it happens to be.

And then all of a sudden it's not about learning maths or English or science or whatever it happens to be.

It's about how are you today in that way that I know you, you know me, you know, respectfully, in the different sort of ways that we're relating at school, but it suddenly becomes a whole different ballgame.

Because I say the trust is there, the honesty is there, the understanding is there, and that human connection.

And from that point you can do anything, I think, and you're just, you know, your specific situation and what you're talking about, you know, is obviously a much wider, much deeper understanding.

I can see how those sort of correlations must really work together.

Yeah.

You know, I always.

Pretty much everything that I do is inspired by something I've seen or a story.

Right.

Where some of us are just, I guess, natural storytellers.

And one of the things, or there were so many, but there was this one girl, I had one year, and the last day of school, she just would not leave the classroom.

I'm like, sweetheart, it's the end of the year, it's last day of school, we're all done, it's time to go home.

And she literally was white knuckled on the desk.

She was just gripping her desk so hard.

And when I asked her what was wrong, she said she really loved it there.

That was her place, that was her space, the one place in her world where she felt safe.

And the idea of leaving that classroom for the summer and then she'd be going on to another school the following year was scary for her.

And so as much as I, on the last day of school, was happy the school year is over, it's time for my break as well, I just let her stay.

And it caused me to reflect a lot on recognizing how important our space in the classroom is for our children, because sometimes it is the only safe space that they have.

And so I put a lot of time and thought and energy into addressing that safe space environment in a classroom and becoming culturally competent as an educator so that you really, truly could connect with a child on multiple levels and see them and understand them and have them feel safe coming to you to say, you know what?

This is my one and only safe space.

Or I had to.

I had to work in the fields this weekend.

I can't write because my hands are raw because I was picking crops this weekend with my family.

The things that my children would say, you know, we're living in our car, we lost our house, I'm tired, I can't sleep because we're living on the street.

These things that, you know, as an educator, we typically is not happening to us personally.

We get to leave and go to the comfort of our homes every night, but our children don't.

And if we're not seeing all that they're going through and respecting my God, at least they showed up today.

So what can I do to have this child continue to learn given the situation that they're in?

And that does not happen.

That doesn't happen unless you're able to connect with that child on a deep level.

And I think the amazing thing is, is that you have to kind of care.

Care and not care.

That's the wrong phrase, but it's that kind of.

You have to be fully aware of that and be open to it.

But at the same time, it also just be another day because otherwise you get completely wound into the whole thing as well, don't you?

Sort of.

You create that space.

It's like a home, I think.

You know, day to day, it seems like it's the same things happening, but it's the little bits of everything that you give to the house do.

You give to your children, you give to the rest of your family.

That makes up the sense of what a home is and how that feels, which I think sort of works in that same kind of way.

And also it makes a mockery of this whole thing that you're now age 10 and we're going to take this test because this is what you should be doing, which isn't the same for this child who's age 10 and this child who, like you say, is living in a car and is worried about where they're going to get their next meal from, as opposed to the child that happens to be in a wealthy family and hasn't even ever had to think about where the next meal is going to come from.

The two things are just completely different.

And it just, like I say, it's not that we don't know this, it's just that why is it not changed?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I can retire.

Exactly right.

Yeah, exactly.

I like that as a banner idea as well.

Get to retire and then we know education is sorted.

It's a much easier slogan.

Fantastic.

I'm always fascinated when I chat to people, especially working in this sort of way in education.

Is there a teacher or an education experience that you remember that had an influence and also how has that kind of worked within the way that you understand education or the way that you now work and what that sort of meant to you?

Yeah, that's an easy one.

In fact, I just.

I just wrote the dedication for the book that's coming out and I dedicated it to her.

It was my third grade teacher.

Her name was Mrs.

Gowdy.

I actually have a keynote that I do.

Thank you, Mrs.

Gowdy, because we so often forget to go back and thank those teachers who've made a tremendous impact, a difference in our lives.

But she was my third grade teacher in the States.

That made me eight, nine years old that year, and she happened to have me the year after I saw my father shot to death.

So we think about childhood trauma and how children present at school after.

After going through a trauma.

She saw me.

She believed in me.

And it was a new school for me.

On top of everything else, I'm in a new school.

I've had this horrible trauma.

I'm in this room, a classroom, where I'm very, very shy.

Not anymore, clearly, but at the time, is very, very shy, withdrawn and traumatized.

But she saw me not the way I would describe myself right now.

In that.

In that frame, she saw my potential.

And I was, in terms of reading ability, was way ahead of the rest of the class.

And so she gave me what we now call differentiated instruction.

She created content for me to work with that was at my level.

But beyond that, she gave me books to read that were of black men and women.

I know this is an audio podcast, and folks can't see me.

I am a black woman.

Mrs.

But she created this whole series of lessons for the course of the year so that I could connect to something that was meaningful to me and at the same time, learn and grow and really stretch my abilities far beyond grade level.

I didn't think about it at that time, but as an educator, you know, in reflecting and going back, who was, you know, who was that person?

Where did things change?

Or what made you really and truly connect and fall in love with school?

Every single time I go back to that third grade classroom with Mrs.

Gowdy.

That's amazing.

And.

And after such a traumatized situation, I mean, I can't imagine.

And.

And thank you for sharing that.

What kind of support do you get or did you get then, or how did that sort of play itself out in terms of your growth and your learning and how you then wanted to show up in the world?

Yeah, as I think back, there were no supports.

There was.

But, you know, back then, we didn't have access in America, black people did not have access to mental health and those types of supports, and there certainly wasn't anything offered in school.

If I ever saw a counselor in school about that, I certainly don't remember.

And I know I talked to my mom about it as an adult, and There just wasn't.

But I was such a little bookworm even before then.

I've always loved to read that.

Her finding that thing that I loved so much in terms of reading just made a really, really big difference.

When I think about how I saw myself in the world then, I just wanted to be.

I wanted to, like, withdraw into the background and just, you know, be part of the wallpaper and not have anyone notice me.

Because, honestly, Mark, the most painful thing for someone to ask me at that time.

And I think about this when we talk about the assignments we give our children, when somebody would say, well, what does your daddy do for a living?

Right?

And so when teachers say, you know, sort of the first assignment that they give at the beginning of the year is, you know, what did your family do during the summer?

It pains me because I think about kids who don't really, you know, they may not have a family, they may be fostered.

We don't know all of the things that go on in their lives or they ask them to, you know, do research on your family tree.

And, you know, that information isn't always there.

And that's why I'm, you know, so big on knowing your children and becoming culturally connected and culturally competent so that you see these things and you don't.

You know, while it's.

It's not intentional that you are harming them, you are sort of stirring up very often trauma that causes children to withdraw.

And I guess that all comes down partly, like we said, to knowing the children in your class, but also just awareness, that idea of empathy, of understanding.

And I guess, you know, that's where, like you said, you have a certain amount of autonomy in your classrooms and as being educators as well.

And actually, that's why, you know, that's why I love this medium.

You know, all those people who are listening who are going to say, I could just tweak the way I do this or the way that I think about this, or how I'm going to show up for everybody, even.

Even if that's just like, say, the beginning of the year or at certain times of the year, because, you know, it happens to be Mother's Day, Father's Day, you know, Christmas, which or whatever it happens to be, it's all going to have a different thing.

So understanding how you want to show up as part of that in relation to everybody else just changes the whole experience for you as well as them.

Yeah, yeah.

It's amazing how much we learn when we sort of tap into the experiences that our children Are having.

Yeah.

Is there a piece of advice you'd like to share?

And this can be something which has been said to you, but it might be maybe something you might say to your younger self.

Now, looking back as a more experienced person, shall we say.

Yeah, I love that.

What would you say to your younger self?

It's like, how young?

Because we're quite seasoned or I guess the word now is vintage is what we are.

But when I think about that and I think about my school age self, I would say don't ever let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do.

Right.

Don't ever let anyone else put limits on your ability and your future accomplishments.

Unfortunately, I didn't learn that lesson until I actually was going to grad school, about to go, or attempting to go to grad school, and I was rejected by a university that I was applying to to go to teachers College.

And I thought I went to a top tier university.

I went to one of the top 10 public universities in the US and I graduated in four and a half years, a little bit longer, but still I graduated.

And you university that is not even ranked in the top 100 are telling me that you don't want me.

So I had to fight, right?

I had to fight to get in.

And I just had to, you know, it's like you cannot judge my abilities based on a transcript.

So give me a shot.

Which they, you know, they did.

And I got provisional admission.

And because of that, it's like I have this I'm going to show you attitude.

And I graduated with a 4.0 perfect GPA and the highest rated portfolio that they had in the history of the teachers college.

Right?

So it's like, don't let anyone tell you you can't.

I could have taken that rejection and said, oh well, I guess I'll just never be a teacher.

But instead I chose to fight.

And so I tell young people, don't, don't ever stop fighting.

If it's something you want, go for it.

And don't let anyone put limits on it.

And if you need help or support or advice, it's out there now and it's the kids now.

People now have so much more access to information than we did back in the 70s, 80s, 90s.

I'm really aging myself.

So very specific.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And I think the other thing that strikes me at that point is the fact that children also have so many ways that they can show up now.

So that sense of, you know, you can get into here or you can do this assignment if you can write really well or you can do this particular thing really well, you know, if, if, if video is your thing, if speaking is your thing, you know, show up in the best way that you can.

And I think the world is going in that way that you can, you know, you can be who you want to be and articulate it in that way.

There's no point if you're struggling to be able to read and write, force yourself down that avenue when you can articulate yourself really well by speaking, you know, why do it differently if you can, if you can do that and.

Can I share something with you on that?

The school that I taught in, and I was teaching 12 and 13 year olds was in a very low wealth area.

There was federal housing project where many of my children lived.

And when I first got there, most of our kids were five or six years below ability from where they should be.

And so the idea of having my children write essays was just forget it.

That just.

It would be more frustrating for me to try and read and grade them than it was, than it was frustrating for them to create them.

But I found that so many of my children had artistic talents that instead of saying write an essay, answering the 10 questions on page whatever of the history text, tell me in a series of pictures, right?

So they created comic strips essentially that were well drawn with little captions that really created or captured the essence absence of the answers that they needed to give.

They understood the information, but the way they were able to tell it had to come in a way other than paper to pencil and write me an essay.

And I think now the ability to say, okay, give me a, you know, one minute TikTok type video or short form content video or you know, give me a series of pictures or whatever it is.

There's just so many different ways that kids can show what they know besides writing an essay.

I think it's a wonderful time to be able to get children to express themselves and their knowledge in ways that we never could before.

And we as educators, we need to tap into that.

It's such an important thing, isn't it?

And the other thing that struck me from what you said just a moment ago is the fact that if you hadn't heard what it means to fight or to be your best self or to go after something, then how are you going to know that's the case?

And it may be, maybe it's something you get told at Home.

Maybe it's not, maybe it should happen in, you know, eighth grade or whatever it happens to be.

But actually if you're, if you're a teacher, you know, and there are certain things that you know that are important.

Even if you're a seasoned teacher and you've said the same thing many times, it's the first time that child will have probably heard it, or it may well be.

So make sure that you're intentional about saying these important things in the right time, in the right way, to the right people.

But actually it's only, it's always the first time for that particular person.

And it's one of the things that I learned actually, interestingly, when I was doing sort of musicals or, or ballet and opera, because it's that kind of, you know, I've done this maybe 300 times in the last two years.

But the chances are it's the first time this audience happens to have seen it.

So you owe it to them to be your best self, to share it in the best possible way, even though you may do it in your sleep, because that's the experience that you're, you're here to give to those people.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Is there a resource you'd like to share?

And this can be anything from a book, a video, song, podcast, film, can be personal or professional, but just something which you like or has had a bit of an impact.

No, you know, not completely self serving.

I would say my favorite resource is my own writing, but here's why.

You know, yes, it's valuable to other people, but it's most valuable to me in that it's something or.

And I now have two books in publication, one coming and another one that's in research.

But those have stretched me so far in terms of my own learning and ability that when I look at those, I can look back and say, I did that.

I go back and reread something that I've written and sometimes I'm like, I wrote that.

That's really good.

I wrote that.

So for me and I think for other people, as, as whatever it is, I use that as my example for me.

But when we do something that really stretches us and helps us to grow, it's.

It gives you, I think it gives you the.

I don't know which word I want to use.

Maybe it's the whole fire.

It gives you your fire acronym to keep doing more.

You can do this, you can do it better, you can do it again, you can help more people.

And so that's what I lean into when I think about that question, my favorite resource, it's that.

Because that's the resource that keeps me moving.

I love that.

And you mentioned the acronym there, so it's a perfect timing.

And by the acronym we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

And what is it?

Is it one word that strikes you?

Is it the combination?

Is it certain things that over the years you can sort of really identify with?

I think it's an over the years.

And honestly, Mark, when I read your acronym, I thought, oh, that's good, I wish I thought of it.

That's about the highest compliment I can give to anyone on something.

And so I thought about that and I thought, you know what?

It's sort of the story of my life, right?

Seeing my father killed when I was seven, growing up in a single parent household, the racism and discrimination that happens in the US that I lived with in my personal life and my professional life, that fighting to be accepted into grad school when I knew I could do it, but no one else believed I could.

All of that.

Through all of that, when I thought about those four words, I thought about the fact that feedback is a gift.

It's something I say all the time.

Feedback is a gift.

We need to listen and accept it because that can be part of the inspiration for us to move on.

And that's what inspiration is, that, that something that helps us, helps us to move on and move forward.

And when stuff starts coming at you, you've got to have that resilience to push through, right?

And then that empowerment to embrace our potential as we push.

So I think of all of that and I think you have to have fire and having that is what helps us sort of, I don't know, sort of create or cultivate a mindset that values continuous learning, continuous challeng taking risk every single opportunity that we get.

Because ultimately we're the ones with fire that can sort of own our own journeys, right?

And instead of seeing roadblocks and speed bumps and challenges as things to keep us from, they are stepping stones to get us there.

We need those things.

Yeah, well, thank you for that.

That's.

That, that's amazing.

And the thing that struck me, which has never struck me before, is that idea of sort of continuity and continually going through these things.

Because what you've got one day might be slightly different, you know, being inspired one day, but then needing the resilience the next day, or a different part of a project or a different part of your season of your life.

But how they then become the whole.

Because as you sort of stand further back and you see how all of that works, and it's one of the things I mention to my pupils often when I'm teaching music is the fact that you're going to go through the same thing each time you're learning something new.

We're getting some new skills, some new understanding, then we're going to kind of critique it and get it better and better.

Then you'll start to get it a little bit better.

You start to feel like, oh, yeah, I've got this now, and where I can, I can do almost anything.

And then you do the repetition and you start to feel really good about it.

Then you perform it and you're like, yeah, I'm sort, you know, I'm empowered to go and do this again.

But then, of course, you start with a new piece and you're back to the learning the new thing.

And so it's that you have to embrace the cycle and it, and you have to understand that it works differently, you know, sort of day to day, week to week, month to month.

So I love the way that you sort of, sort of combined all that together.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And come for you.

The music.

The music instructor.

Well, I am terrified right now to get people I grew up, up as I grew up.

And I decided that something I should do in retirement is to pick up an instrument again.

So I got an electronic wind instrument, but I will only play it with the headphones on so that no one else can hear how terrible I am right now.

Eventually, eventually I will allow for feedback.

In good time.

And, and, and when retirement's hit properly in the education system is fine and you've got as many hours as you need to do to put that practice in and feel like you're as comfortable as you possibly can be.

Amazing.

Amitra, thank you so much.

This has been a fascinating and wonderful conversation.

I really do appreciate it.

Where should you want people to go and say, find out more about the podcast in the book and the Patreon and all that sort of thing.

Where's the one place you want them to go?

And we'll also have this listed in the show notes as well.

So, sure, the easiest is probably patreon.com3epodcast, but I am on most social network platforms as almitra berry at Al Mitra Berry.

I'm everywhere except for X, so LinkedIn is the easiest way to find me.

If you DM me on LinkedIn.

I'm there, but I'm also on Threads, Facebook, TikTok.

I'm starting to have fun on TikTok YouTube.

And I'm probably missing one Instagram.

There we go.

I think that's it.

But I'm Traberry and I say thank you.

My father is the one who named me, and when he gave me this name, he did not know how easy it was going to be for everyone to find me.

Amazing.

Oh, thank you so much, indeed.

I really appreciate everything that you're doing.

Keep up the great work.

And yeah, we'll organize that live show so we can get some, some interaction with everyone in your community on the show as well.

So, yeah, thank you so much, indeed.

Thanks for having me.

I look forward to it.

Education is not the filling of a pale, but the lighting of a fire.