Transcripts
Do you seem to care more about your organization's backup and
Speaker:recovery system than anybody else?
Speaker:This is the podcast for you, and we've got another great episode this week.
Speaker:Regular listeners.
Speaker:Hear me harp a lot about the security of their backup and recovery system.
Speaker:There's nothing more crucial to that than having a good identity
Speaker:authentication and authorization system.
Speaker:We've got an expert and identity orchestration here this week to help
Speaker:us understand this important concept.
Speaker:I learned a lot.
Speaker:I hope you will too.
W. Curtis Preston:hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restored All podcast.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm your host, w Curtis Preston, a k a, Mr.
W. Curtis Preston:Backup.
W. Curtis Preston:And I have with me a guy who, honestly, I'm not sure why we're friends.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, Prasanna Malaiyandi
Prasanna Malaiyandi:hey, now what?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:What, what did I do this time?
W. Curtis Preston:No, it's the whole, it's the whole movie thing.
W. Curtis Preston:So like, you know, like how, how, like you're so not.
W. Curtis Preston:Like a person who goes to movies, and I am so a person who goes to movies, I'm
W. Curtis Preston:like, like, what do we even talk about?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Well, I think what ends up happening is you
Prasanna Malaiyandi:explain what goes on in movies.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I sit there and listen to it with the plan of never
W. Curtis Preston:yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:So you're, so, yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:So you're watching, you're watching movies vicariously through me.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, and just to, just to.
W. Curtis Preston:Illustrate just how much of a goofy movie fanatic I am.
W. Curtis Preston:I am as of a few minutes ago.
W. Curtis Preston:I am now what some people are referring to as a Barbenheimer.
W. Curtis Preston:do, do you know what a Barbenheimer is?
W. Curtis Preston:Prasanna.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Nope.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:What's a Barbenheimer?
W. Curtis Preston:So it is, uh, there is next weekend or this
W. Curtis Preston:weekend there is the upcoming dual.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, we have two big movie premieres this weekend, both the Barbie movie, which when
W. Curtis Preston:I first heard of it, I'm like, that does not sound like a movie that I wanna watch.
W. Curtis Preston:But based on the previews and the actors and whatnot it sent out,
W. Curtis Preston:I said, you know what, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go see this movie.
W. Curtis Preston:And also Oppenheimer, I.
W. Curtis Preston:Which I cannot think of a movie more opposite than, uh, the Barbie
W. Curtis Preston:movie, the with Oppenheimer, which is the story of the, the guy behind
W. Curtis Preston:the creation of the atomic bomb.
W. Curtis Preston:And they're saying that, you know, it's a three hour emotionally draining
W. Curtis Preston:according to reviews or whatnot.
W. Curtis Preston:It's a three hour thing.
W. Curtis Preston:What I wanted to do, and so and so, Barbenheimer, are those
W. Curtis Preston:of us who have signed up to see these movies back to back.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Oh, good Lord
W. Curtis Preston:On, on, on the release date.
W. Curtis Preston:So I will be seeing the first showing of both of these movies in San Diego.
W. Curtis Preston:I'll be seeing, so next Thursday, I'll be seeing the Barbie movie at 3:00 PM
W. Curtis Preston:and based on its runtime, it should finish, you know, with credits it should
W. Curtis Preston:finish at, at like, Like, including, it's, it's the, the, what do you call
W. Curtis Preston:it, not trailers, what the, the credits.
W. Curtis Preston:Right.
W. Curtis Preston:Including the trailers in the front and the credits in the back.
W. Curtis Preston:It will finish at 5:20 PM and so if I take like five minutes for not
W. Curtis Preston:watching the credits, I can then run over to the 5:00 PM showing.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, of, of Oppenheimer where the, where the, the trailer should still be running.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, and then I'll just find my seat.
W. Curtis Preston:And what I wanna know is I wanna see how many people do that.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, what I, what I wanted to do is I want Go ahead.
W. Curtis Preston:Go ahead, please.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I was, I was wondering why you did it in that order
Prasanna Malaiyandi:rather than the reverse, given that.
W. Curtis Preston:That's, that's what I was just about to say.
W. Curtis Preston:I wanted to see Oppenheimer and then in tears go watch, um, the Barbie movie.
W. Curtis Preston:It is not possible.
W. Curtis Preston:It reminds me, actually.
W. Curtis Preston:So I live in Oceanside, California, and you have the Metrolink trains that go to
W. Curtis Preston:LA and you have this, the, the, uh, San Diego coaster that goes to San Diego.
W. Curtis Preston:You can't take the trains.
W. Curtis Preston:Either way, you can't, you can't get on a, on a Metrolink train and then land and
W. Curtis Preston:then get on a, a coaster train and go to San Diego, um, because they specifically
W. Curtis Preston:put the time so that that doesn't work.
W. Curtis Preston:And that's exactly what happened with Oppenheimer.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, and also this way I'm seeing the firsts showing of both.
W. Curtis Preston:So I'm with, you know, the true fans, you know, the true
W. Curtis Preston:fans, uh, the true Barbie fans.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I was just gonna ask, so you are going by yourself.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:You're not taking your granddaughter, you're going by yourself
W. Curtis Preston:N no, no.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm going by myself to
Prasanna Malaiyandi:to the Barbie movie.
W. Curtis Preston:Uhhuh.
W. Curtis Preston:Have you seen any of the previews though?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:have not.
W. Curtis Preston:I, I, I, I, I don't think I would
W. Curtis Preston:probably take Lily to go see it.
W. Curtis Preston:Well, I would definitely not take Lily to go see it before I go see
W. Curtis Preston:it first 'cause she's only 10.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, and I think there's probably gonna be some stuff in there that's
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Is it PG 13?
W. Curtis Preston:old.
W. Curtis Preston:I, I, I, I, I think it might be, um, I know it's not g
W. Curtis Preston:I know it's not G for sure.
W. Curtis Preston:I don't even know if they make G movies anymore, but yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:So this is what I'm talking about for those of us, yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:And the times just don't work out.
W. Curtis Preston:So like if in order to see the Oppenheimer and then Barbie, you have to have this
W. Curtis Preston:big, um, delay in between the two.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:
:and you can use a delay.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:
:Go eat dinner.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:
:Take a nap.
W. Curtis Preston:Well, you, you know me, I'm
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I know you.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah, exactly.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Killing me.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm gonna bring our guest on today.
W. Curtis Preston:He has been in the cybersecurity industry for over 25 years and is
W. Curtis Preston:now the c e O of Strata Identity and Identity Orchestration Company.
W. Curtis Preston:You can find them@strata.io.
W. Curtis Preston:Welcome to the pod Eric Olden
Eric Olden:Nice.
Eric Olden:Thanks for having me.
Eric Olden:I'm looking forward to it, uh, the conversation and, uh, I'm looking
Eric Olden:forward to, to the movies as well.
Eric Olden:You, you've got my interest piqued and when you were talking about
Eric Olden:the, the mashup, I was, yeah, Barbenheimer, that's, it's gotta
Eric Olden:be a one heck of a mashup, but I
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Was Eric looking for tickets?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Were you looking up tickets while Curtis and I were talking?
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:It's, um, right now if you get your tickets, now you, you get
W. Curtis Preston:your choice of seats, right?
W. Curtis Preston:Um, although with Oppenheimer it was pretty full.
W. Curtis Preston:It was, uh, uh, but, um, and today I saw, actually saw Mission Impossible today.
W. Curtis Preston:Or Yeah, I'm sorry.
W. Curtis Preston:That was yesterday.
W. Curtis Preston:I saw Mission Impossible yesterday, by the way.
W. Curtis Preston:Amazing movie.
W. Curtis Preston:That guy.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, that movie's just over the top.
W. Curtis Preston:Gotta see that movie and gotta see it on a big screen as big a screen as you can.
W. Curtis Preston:I think if, if there's ever a movie that's meant to be seen on a big screen,
W. Curtis Preston:it's the Mission Impossible movie.
W. Curtis Preston:Anyway, but you know what we have to start with, uh, Eric, uh, is, is I need to know
W. Curtis Preston:the story behind, uh, bought Not Sold,
Eric Olden:Ah, yes.
Eric Olden:Why not sold?
Eric Olden:Uh,
W. Curtis Preston:both your Twitter handle and your,
W. Curtis Preston:um, your LinkedIn identity.
Eric Olden:Yeah, and I own the, the domain boughtnotsold.com.
Eric Olden:So the full set.
Eric Olden:Uh, so I guess the short of it is that, you know, I've been in, uh, technology
Eric Olden:sales and software development and all that for over 25 years, and I've seen
Eric Olden:this kind of evolution of the way that.
Eric Olden:You know, people consume technology and you think about that, people talk
Eric Olden:often about the consumerization of technology and the move to the cloud and
Eric Olden:things like that are accelerating that.
Eric Olden:But if you think about the experience that, um, people go through when
Eric Olden:they're trying to solve a problem, I.
Eric Olden:I've yet to meet anyone who says, oh, please call me and sell me something.
Eric Olden:But people need to buy things.
Eric Olden:And so if you flip that general relationship 180 degrees and you
Eric Olden:help people buy things and not sell things to them, it sounds
Eric Olden:like a semantic difference.
Eric Olden:But it's a world of difference when, um, applied correctly because, um, And you
Eric Olden:think about the whole process of figuring out a solution and you wanna do your
Eric Olden:research and you're gonna get onto Google and you're gonna do all of the content and
Eric Olden:consume all of the videos and everything that goes into making a decision.
Eric Olden:And I like to think of setting things up so that people have a great
Eric Olden:experience going through that on their own and lead them to a conclusion.
Eric Olden:Let them make a decision, and that's bought not sold.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I like it.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah, it, it, it, having worked at some companies in the past, I think
Prasanna Malaiyandi:sometimes those companies, when they sell to enterprises, they would
Prasanna Malaiyandi:talk about sort of being like a trusted partner or a trusted advisor.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:But I like what you're talking about Eric, which is going even beyond that
Prasanna Malaiyandi:and sort of allowing the end user to be that sort of self-sufficient, right.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Find what they need, figure it out, go on the journey, but give
Prasanna Malaiyandi:them the information they need in order to come to that conclusion.
Eric Olden:Exactly, you're, you're exactly right.
Eric Olden:Prasanna and, and on Strata io, the website.
Eric Olden:Um, for four years we have not gated our content.
Eric Olden:So a lot of times people, you say, oh, I'm interested.
Eric Olden:I wanna read that white paper.
Eric Olden:I want to get this report, and I don't want to have that spam
Eric Olden:when I give my email or someone's gonna harass me on the phone.
Eric Olden:Uh, instead we just say, Hey, look, the content, if it's good, is gonna teach
Eric Olden:people and educate them, and educated people make decisions more quickly and
Eric Olden:they're more confident in their decision.
Eric Olden:I.
Eric Olden:Therefore they spend more money and they, they, you know, make a bigger investment.
Eric Olden:So, um, I realize I'm giving away all my secrets here, guys, so, uh, but that's
Eric Olden:how it works in, in practice though.
Eric Olden:Just let, just give the good content out there.
Eric Olden:Don't have people, uh, feel like they're obligated.
Eric Olden:Uh, and if it's really good content, you know what you're
Eric Olden:doing, uh, it should come through.
Eric Olden:And then people want to buy from the person that educates
Eric Olden:them and treats them the best.
Eric Olden:So that's kind of, uh, applied.
W. Curtis Preston:So I guess you would, you would have a, a, a call to action,
W. Curtis Preston:I suppose, in the content somewhere basically saying, Hey, if, if you
W. Curtis Preston:found this helpful, then, then go here.
W. Curtis Preston:Is that, is that the idea?
Eric Olden:Yeah, that's the idea.
Eric Olden:And you know, we have a self-service product, so if
Eric Olden:someone says, oh, that seems cool.
Eric Olden:What is this identity orchestration thing?
Eric Olden:Let me try it out.
Eric Olden:And then, Couple clicks, you're in the product.
Eric Olden:Again, it's all free to start.
Eric Olden:And, um, you can just see if it works and if it does, you know, people love it.
Eric Olden:And, um, you know, it's been a nice way to align us with our customers and,
Eric Olden:and get the friction out of the way.
Eric Olden:So, but it's, it is pretty radical when we bring in new,
Eric Olden:uh, people on the sales team.
Eric Olden:We say, look, don't, um, don't spam.
Eric Olden:We don't send unsolicited emails.
Eric Olden:From marketing, people are like, well, how do you do it?
Eric Olden:You say, well, you be patient and they'll come to you if you, you
Eric Olden:know, build into this content model.
Eric Olden:And so, uh, it, it has been great.
Eric Olden:It's been wonderful for us.
Eric Olden:We've been really happy with it.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:No, I like that transparency aspect.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Now, do you also provide transparency in pricing?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Because I know some vendors, right, they're like, Hey, by the
Prasanna Malaiyandi:way, if you need more information, give us your email address.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Right?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Or call a person.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Do you also provide sort of that transparency on your website?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I.
Eric Olden:Yeah, all the pricing's right there give a little pricing calculator
Eric Olden:and um, we take that even further.
Eric Olden:The whole idea of consumption based pricing, I think that's
Eric Olden:another aspect of the bot not sold.
Eric Olden:Concept is that if it works, you're gonna buy more of it.
Eric Olden:So yeah, I've always felt like when people are saying, Hey, go whatever the,
Eric Olden:the thing may be you're buying something that costs a million dollars and you
Eric Olden:gotta make a million dollar decision that's more risky and stressful than if
Eric Olden:you say, Hey, let's just do 10% of that a hundred thousand dollars decision.
Eric Olden:Or 10,000, whatever is appropriate, and let the product prove itself out.
Eric Olden:And then people will use it more.
Eric Olden:And the more they use it, the more value they get out of it.
Eric Olden:So the more willing they are to pay more for it.
Eric Olden:And so everybody wins, but it is a bit unusual.
Eric Olden:It all, uh, relies on that transparency.
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah, and I, I, I think that would also qualify.
W. Curtis Preston:Would you call yourselves a P L G company as well?
Eric Olden:Yeah, we, we, we do consider ourselves a hybrid because
Eric Olden:we have the full self-service p l g, front to end, and you can do all
Eric Olden:of it without ever talking to us.
Eric Olden:But we are in the enterprise, so a lot of the stuff that we do,
Eric Olden:there's more complexity and so people want to be able to, um, Get expert
Eric Olden:advice in kind of a consulting way.
Eric Olden:And so we, we offer that as well.
Eric Olden:So it's a, a hybrid model and um, but it's all based on that whole bot not sold idea.
Eric Olden:So, you know, our goal is to be no, no pushy anything because, um,
Eric Olden:You know, if it works, that that's the kind of, what's the saying?
Eric Olden:The product will prove itself out and no product sells itself.
Eric Olden:But I think you can have the product prove itself out and that, I think
Eric Olden:is the, is a big win for everybody.
Eric Olden:I.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Curtis,
W. Curtis Preston:way, I, I have to, yeah, I was, I, I have to define p l
W. Curtis Preston:G as product-led growth, which is a way to, to build a company and, uh,
W. Curtis Preston:Prasanna, I, I bet you're gonna ask me about the, the disclaimer, aren't you?
W. Curtis Preston:Okay.
W. Curtis Preston:Alright.
W. Curtis Preston:So, uh, throughout our usual disclaimer, uh, Prasanna and I work
W. Curtis Preston:for different companies and, uh, we're not representing either of them here.
W. Curtis Preston:This is an independent podcast and, uh, the opinions that you hear are ours.
W. Curtis Preston:Also, if you like us, rate us.
W. Curtis Preston:If you hate us, don't rate us.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, and, um, the, uh, uh, and then, um, uh, if you wanna reach, if you wanna
W. Curtis Preston:be part of the conversation, just reach out to me at WC Preston on Twitter
W. Curtis Preston:or, uh, w Curtis Preston at gmail.
W. Curtis Preston:And as of like two or three days ago, w Curtis Preston on Threads.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, and, uh, I wish you all the best results over there.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, at the, you know, the, the latest social media company.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, anyway, so Eric, um, uh, here's a really big question.
W. Curtis Preston:What is identity orchestration?
Eric Olden:Yeah, great question.
Eric Olden:Um, identity orchestration is, um, I'll kind of break those terms down.
Eric Olden:Identity management, which is the way that users access applications and data.
Eric Olden:And everything that goes around that.
Eric Olden:And the orchestration side is think about automating, uh, different
Eric Olden:flows or multi-step, uh, situations.
Eric Olden:Where this is, uh, useful is in multi-cloud, and the typical situation
Eric Olden:that we see is that an organization has a, uh, on-premises private cloud.
Eric Olden:They've got their data center, they've been running for some time.
Eric Olden:And they're at some point in their cloud journey where they've
Eric Olden:got one or more public clouds.
Eric Olden:And when you've got different places where your workloads run, you've got
Eric Olden:different identity providers or IDPs, so they're built into the cloud.
Eric Olden:So on Amazon you have a W Ss Kognito on Azure, you've got Azure
Eric Olden:Active Directory on premises.
Eric Olden:You've got things like Oracle and SiteMinder and uh, things
Eric Olden:of that type active directory.
Eric Olden:So when you start to think about how do we make all of these things work together,
Eric Olden:that's where you need to do two things.
Eric Olden:One, integrate everything.
Eric Olden:And we call that an identity fabric.
Eric Olden:And you can think about that as an abstraction layer that
Eric Olden:makes everything work together.
Eric Olden:And the second part is the orchestration.
Eric Olden:So you think about what we've done in computing.
Eric Olden:With Kubernetes and virtualization over time, you had more and more
Eric Olden:abstraction away from the hardware.
Eric Olden:So today we talk about containers and Kubernetes and
Eric Olden:moving into serverless, right?
Eric Olden:All of those are strata of abstraction.
Eric Olden:We applied that same thinking to identity management and said, look, instead of
Eric Olden:thinking about and being locked into any one identity provider, What if you can
Eric Olden:abstract them and then allow you to mix and match what identity systems make sense
Eric Olden:for your risk profile or your compliance or your, uh, management requirements.
Eric Olden:So it's a brand new category.
Eric Olden:Um, we started this in 2019.
Eric Olden:We shipped a product, uh, our product's called Mavericks, and uh, it's the
Eric Olden:first identity orchestration platform.
Eric Olden:And.
Eric Olden:We think about building the VMware of identity, and that's what,
Eric Olden:uh, identity orchestration is.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:No, that's pretty awesome, especially given how complex
Prasanna Malaiyandi:some of these environments are and people wanting to not be locked in.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Right?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:That's one of the biggest challenges is once you start using like Microsoft
Prasanna Malaiyandi:from On-Premises and you, you're like, oh, now just use Azure, but maybe
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Azure isn't the best option for you.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Maybe you do want use a w S.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Do you also help?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Make it easy for people so they don't need to understand all the underlying
Prasanna Malaiyandi:complexities of say A W Ss or Azure and active directory instances There.
Eric Olden:Yeah, absolutely.
Eric Olden:And, and that's the role of the abstraction layer.
Eric Olden:Uh, it, it integrates with all of the proprietary, uh, APIs of
Eric Olden:the various systems and these.
Eric Olden:Application programming interfaces.
Eric Olden:The, the way that you communicate with software, um, think about
Eric Olden:those in a metaphor of like, they're all in different languages.
Eric Olden:Some are in Spanish, some are in Japanese, some are in, um, uh, Korean.
Eric Olden:And instead of trying to learn all of these different languages, the abstraction
Eric Olden:layer is kind of a universal language translation, so that it handles the
Eric Olden:translation of one thing into the other.
Eric Olden:So that the application doesn't have to, and that means that the, on the
Eric Olden:application side of the abstraction layer, what it's seeing is effectively
Eric Olden:a facade of what it expects to look at.
Eric Olden:If it was originally communicating with Oracle, for instance, and you want to
Eric Olden:switch out Oracle for Okta in the cloud, Well, the abstraction layer would have
Eric Olden:the application talking to it using whatever protocol is already working.
Eric Olden:So like things like, uh, SAML or security assertion, markup language
Eric Olden:and Open ID Connect, or O I D C or some of the old school products that
Eric Olden:use cookies and um, H T T P headers.
Eric Olden:So all of these different ways that applications consume identity.
Eric Olden:Are universally managed by that abstraction layer.
Eric Olden:And why that's important is that you don't wanna rewrite your application to
Eric Olden:have it work with a different identity provider because that's expensive.
Eric Olden:It takes a long time, and there's a lot of cases where you just can't do it because
Eric Olden:maybe it's a packaged to application, you don't have the source code to.
Eric Olden:So this approach of identity orchestration allows you to swap out and mix and
Eric Olden:match the different identity providers.
Eric Olden:On under the covers without ever rewriting the application.
Eric Olden:So
Prasanna Malaiyandi:like N
Eric Olden:make it.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah, it's like for file storage, right?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:You had N F S as a protocol that anyone can switch out.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:As long as the vendor was supporting N F Ss, you were all good to go.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:And just kind of going back and thinking, I know Curtis, we were
Prasanna Malaiyandi:talking about movies earlier, right?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:It's kind of like what you guys have built is kind of like
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Babelfish for identity, right?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:It allows you to translate between various languages, right?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:And provide that same abstraction regardless of what the
Prasanna Malaiyandi:underlying identity provider is.
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:Wh which led to, which is leading to my question, but you.
W. Curtis Preston:I, I had a question and then you said something that made
W. Curtis Preston:my question even harder.
W. Curtis Preston:So, so it's sort of two questions in one.
W. Curtis Preston:One is, um, how would you contrast this to something like Okta, what Okta does?
W. Curtis Preston:And then in the middle of like, waiting to ask that question, you
W. Curtis Preston:said you work with Okta, right?
W. Curtis Preston:As an identity provider.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, and so in that case it would seem like there's.
W. Curtis Preston:Multiple layers between the actual application and, and the customer.
W. Curtis Preston:So, so I was just a little, so there you go.
W. Curtis Preston:That I don't know, I'm sure there's a question in there somewhere.
Eric Olden:Well, that's a perfect hybrid question from the
Eric Olden:Barb Inheimer, uh, school of.
W. Curtis Preston:the, from the Barb Heimer.
W. Curtis Preston:Absolutely.
W. Curtis Preston:From the Heimer School of Questioning.
Eric Olden:Yeah.
Eric Olden:So, um, identity providers are, um, there's a lot of
Eric Olden:good ones that are out there.
Eric Olden:Okta's a good one.
Eric Olden:Um, Microsoft does great stuff with Azure.
Eric Olden:They're Azure products, Azure Active Directory.
Eric Olden:You've got new ones.
Eric Olden:You've got old ones, right?
Eric Olden:So those are new ones.
Eric Olden:Uh, things like hyper is a different way to do passwordless authentication.
Eric Olden:And then you've got the old ones that are on-prem, typically the Oracles,
Eric Olden:the cas, IBMs and things like that.
Eric Olden:So, um, what an identity fabric is, it's an agnostic, vendor neutral way to
Eric Olden:make all of your infrastructure work.
Eric Olden:Together, right?
Eric Olden:So we specialize in working with everybody so that our customers are
Eric Olden:free to choose whatever they want.
Eric Olden:And so we partner with all of the vendors.
Eric Olden:We have a really broad platform that integrates with all of the major
Eric Olden:technologies that are out there, and it's all in support of that no lock-in.
Eric Olden:So the customers can say, Hey, you know, 'cause one of the things
Eric Olden:that a lot of times, uh, identity.
Eric Olden:Shows up in, in interesting ways is mergers and acquisitions and very
Eric Olden:common situation where you could have one company who is a Microsoft shop
Eric Olden:through and through, they acquire another company that's an Okta shop well.
Eric Olden:Identity isn't one of those things that you can just turn a switch
Eric Olden:on without some software, right?
Eric Olden:And so you're gonna have a challenge because you've got two
Eric Olden:different identity systems, two different vendors, and they weren't
Eric Olden:engineered to work with one another.
Eric Olden:So orchestration and the abstraction layer allows you to, um, basically mix and
Eric Olden:match whatever you want so your employees from the original company can use their.
Eric Olden:Uh, logins out of Azure, as well as the new employees from the acquired company.
Eric Olden:They can use their login on Okta, and the abstraction layer
Eric Olden:brings the two of them together.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:So there, Curtis, that's why it's a new category
Prasanna Malaiyandi:called Identity Orchestration.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Not
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:I, I guess, I guess again, because I don't live in that world, Right.
W. Curtis Preston:I, I was thinking this more like, like you said, like Okta being an, they're an
W. Curtis Preston:identity provider and you're abstracting that, and so people could, and I get, is
W. Curtis Preston:it common for customers to have multiple identity providers within, you know,
W. Curtis Preston:obviously in an m and a situation, but I'm guessing there are other situations where
W. Curtis Preston:they have an I D P that doesn't support.
W. Curtis Preston:A particular part of their environment, and then you help solve that as well.
Eric Olden:Yeah, exactly.
Eric Olden:And so think about all of these proliferation of identity
Eric Olden:providers on-prem, in the cloud, uh, acquisitions, divestitures.
Eric Olden:So there's a lot of reasons why you're gonna have more than one today.
Eric Olden:Um, and I think the, the way to think about it is similar
Eric Olden:to, uh, virtualization.
Eric Olden:And, you know, Pana, we were talking earlier about Silicon Valley and I grew
Eric Olden:up, uh, driving on 1 0 1 from the South Bay to San Francisco, and I'd see all of
Eric Olden:the tech companies on my way to school.
Eric Olden:And what, um, over time, I mean, there was a point where the, the
Eric Olden:big hardware companies, the server wars of the nineties, and, uh,
Eric Olden:these people like Dell, these people like San other people like hp.
Eric Olden:When's the last time people talk about hardware?
Eric Olden:They don't because it's all now VMs and it's all cloud services.
Eric Olden:So that's an example of how abstraction works.
Eric Olden:And so you no longer need to think about whether you're running on uh, one
Eric Olden:hardware provider or the other people.
Eric Olden:Just think about a higher level of the concept of computing and say, well,
Eric Olden:I've got a vm, or I've got a container.
Eric Olden:And it doesn't matter what hardware runs on.
Eric Olden:That's where identity is headed with orchestration is to say, look, stop
Eric Olden:thinking about which of the identity providers that you're using, assume
Eric Olden:you're gonna want to use more than one.
Eric Olden:And once you have that capability, you can just do whatever you want, right?
Eric Olden:You can just swap out different things for whatever use case that matters.
Eric Olden:So really helps with complexity, fragmentation, and a situation
Eric Olden:where you have many instead of one.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Could you talk, and I think you kind of touched on
Prasanna Malaiyandi:it, could you talk about some of the.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Issues customers face when they have multiple identity providers
Prasanna Malaiyandi:and sort of why they really need this identity orchestration.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I know we talked about sort of being able to swap out things, but what
Prasanna Malaiyandi:about some of the issues that customers can run into by trying to manage
Prasanna Malaiyandi:multiple identity providers today?
Eric Olden:Yeah, a, a very common thing is coexistence, and we see this all
Eric Olden:the time where people have stuff that works on premises and they wanna move
Eric Olden:to the cloud, and they've gotta have coexistence between the old and the new.
Eric Olden:So that's a, pretty much everybody's got that problem.
Eric Olden:Um, even if, say you're using Microsoft on both ends, active directory on-prem
Eric Olden:does not work with Azure AD in the cloud marketing notwithstanding, right?
Eric Olden:But the point is, is that you can, you have the situation all the time.
Eric Olden:Uh, another problem that people run into are in very specialized areas of identity.
Eric Olden:For instance, in, uh, multi-factor authentication or M F A.
Eric Olden:Where people want to use a certain kind of, um, authentication
Eric Olden:that doesn't rely on passwords.
Eric Olden:Well, I think we've all seen the situation where maybe you're used to
Eric Olden:using your biometric on your phone and well, you leave your phone in
Eric Olden:the car, you still gotta log into your, your site, but you can't use a
Eric Olden:password because that's not secure.
Eric Olden:So what do you do in that case?
Eric Olden:Well, that's actually a continuity resilience issue because if you're
Eric Olden:thinking about the person who needs to do their job, they gotta get online.
Eric Olden:Identity is a mission critical, if not one of the most important mission
Eric Olden:critical things, because if identity and access management isn't in place,
Eric Olden:you need to fail closed, right?
Eric Olden:Can't let people in, otherwise it'd be chaos.
Eric Olden:So what you need to think about with multiple identity providers is.
Eric Olden:Hey, what do we do in the event that our primary identity provider isn't available?
Eric Olden:How do we substitute that with a backup?
Eric Olden:And so that could be, for instance, uh, I don't have my phone with
Eric Olden:me, but I've got my key fob.
Eric Olden:And so if I'm presented with an option to say, Hey, how do you wanna authenticate?
Eric Olden:We don't use passwords here 'cause they're not secure.
Eric Olden:We can give you a choice of your primary, is your phone.
Eric Olden:And if you don't have your phone, your secondary could be this, you
Eric Olden:know, one of the Fido keys that you plug into your, your computer.
Eric Olden:So these are examples of problems that people have.
Eric Olden:Resiliency and identity are actually very related.
Eric Olden:So, uh, we see a lot of, a lot of that, um, as, as problems.
Eric Olden:And I guess the last thing would be, Say you've got a great technology like
Eric Olden:Passwordless and you wanna roll it out to all your applications and you've got
Eric Olden:hundreds of applications to do it to.
Eric Olden:Well, you wouldn't be able to do it very quickly if you had to rewrite
Eric Olden:each of the applications to talk with this authentication mechanism.
Eric Olden:So with an abstraction layer, you don't change the apps, you just
Eric Olden:plug the authentication system into the fabric and everything
Eric Olden:that's talking to the fabric and.
Eric Olden:Connect with that without any coding or any, uh, modification.
Eric Olden:So, uh, a lot of problems we call 'em recipes or use cases and, um, but yeah,
Eric Olden:there's, there's a whole lot of different things that people are doing today.
Eric Olden:I.
W. Curtis Preston:So, um, another question.
W. Curtis Preston:Um, so how does this work then?
W. Curtis Preston:So I've got, let's say, Okta.
W. Curtis Preston:Right.
W. Curtis Preston:And, and then you on top of Okta, and I want m f a, um,
W. Curtis Preston:so I'm interacting with you.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm not interacting directly with Okta at this point, right?
W. Curtis Preston:I'm interacting with your abstraction layer.
W. Curtis Preston:So I want M F A and, and Okta is configured for M F a or
W. Curtis Preston:how, how, how does that work?
W. Curtis Preston:Right?
W. Curtis Preston:Because we're not, we're gonna, we're not gonna do two MFAs.
W. Curtis Preston:So how, how do you make that happening?
Eric Olden:Yeah, so when you think about the, the architecture
Eric Olden:that you need in multi-cloud, it's very different than on-prem.
Eric Olden:Very different than SaaS because.
Eric Olden:Uh, you need to be able to deploy this identity anywhere, on any cloud, on
Eric Olden:premises and in, you know, public clouds.
Eric Olden:And the way that we do it at Strata is through this distributed architecture.
Eric Olden:We think about it as an air gap, and we have a component of software called,
Eric Olden:uh, coincidentally an orchestrator.
Eric Olden:And this orchestrator is, acts like a server of sorts.
Eric Olden:Can think of it as a proxy, um, but it does more than just proxying and we built
Eric Olden:it from the ground up to work in this way.
Eric Olden:So think about this orchestrator as a enforcement point, and it is
Eric Olden:programmed with policy so it knows, for instance, in your example, Curtis,
Eric Olden:What kind of authentication am I going to use for this application?
Eric Olden:Is it gonna be Okta with a password or is it gonna be Okta's multifactor
Eric Olden:authentication or somebody else's multifactor authentication?
Eric Olden:So at Runtime, when that user, through their browser puts in the U R L to get
Eric Olden:to that application, that traffic is intercepted through the orchestrator.
Eric Olden:So it's transparent.
Eric Olden:People don't know about Stratus software.
Eric Olden:It's all under the covers.
Eric Olden:Behind the scenes.
Eric Olden:And so then that orchestrator sees this session coming in and says,
Eric Olden:ah, based on where you want to go, I need to enforce this policy.
Eric Olden:I'm going to direct in real time, I'm gonna direct you over to this
Eric Olden:multifactor authentication system.
Eric Olden:You're gonna then be prompted to do the face scan or something else,
Eric Olden:and then if that's successful, then the orchestrator says, okay, what's
Eric Olden:the next step I'm supposed to do?
Eric Olden:Um, you can program it to do a lot of different things, right?
Eric Olden:But to keep it simple, uh, maybe that's all you wanted to
Eric Olden:do is just the authentication.
Eric Olden:And then at that point, the orchestrator would say, you have a valid multifactor
Eric Olden:authentication session, so I'm going to now allow you into the application.
Eric Olden:And, um, that's kind of how it works.
Eric Olden:And you can distribute these orchestrators wherever you need to.
W. Curtis Preston:so if I understand that correctly, what you're
W. Curtis Preston:orchestrating is you're orchestrating me actually talking to Okta, right?
W. Curtis Preston:So I'm still.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm still, you know, like, um, so in the, I don't know how to put it.
W. Curtis Preston:Like you said, you're invisible, right?
W. Curtis Preston:And I'm still interacting and in this example, I'm still interacting with Okta.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm doing M F A with Okta, password, with Okta, whatever it is, you know, or both.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, but you are sort of pointing that and making that happen.
W. Curtis Preston:I'm not, 'cause I, I think a minute ago I had the idea where
W. Curtis Preston:I was interacting with, with you.
W. Curtis Preston:I.
W. Curtis Preston:Your being My username and password or whatever it is
W. Curtis Preston:that I'm using and my M F A.
W. Curtis Preston:And then you were then passing that on to Okta.
W. Curtis Preston:That doesn't sound like that was a correct understanding.
Eric Olden:Y Yeah, I, I think the way to to think about it would be,
Eric Olden:um, Like in, uh, in the music, the orchestrator, the, the conductor of an
Eric Olden:orchestrator orchestra is gonna tell the percussion, do this, the horns do that.
Eric Olden:And, uh, I don't know music that well.
Eric Olden:So let's stick with those two.
Eric Olden:Go here, go there, go here, go there.
Eric Olden:And you know that conductor is not the one playing the music, that is the conductor
Eric Olden:saying how the music needs to be played.
Eric Olden:The instruments are the ones that generate the sound, and that conductor is simply
Eric Olden:saying, go here, then here, then here.
Eric Olden:That's the way to think about it.
Eric Olden:It's, uh, really directing that user session in, uh, runtime.
Eric Olden:So it is, um, it requires these IDPs, the identity providers.
Eric Olden:It doesn't provide the identity itself.
Eric Olden:It's the conductor, not the instrument.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:And since you now have visibility about identity
Prasanna Malaiyandi:across the entire environment, do.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Can you use this to figure out, um, who has access to what
Prasanna Malaiyandi:resources, if there is a breach?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:How did people get in?
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Like, I'm sure that you can now do all sorts of interesting
Prasanna Malaiyandi:forensic cases based on being that single abstraction layer, right?
Eric Olden:Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Eric Olden:And, uh, you bring up a, a really important, uh, area of orchestration.
Eric Olden:So what we've been talking about today up until now, has been
Eric Olden:about the runtime orchestration.
Eric Olden:So what happens when the users.
Eric Olden:Clicking on a link.
Eric Olden:And there's another part of orchestration that has to do with
Eric Olden:the policies or the rules that people set up to govern what needs to happen
Eric Olden:in order to access an application.
Eric Olden:And similar to the I D P fragmentation, the policies that are in these identity
Eric Olden:providers, they're all built in different, uh, languages and syntax as well.
Eric Olden:And so, um, if you want to have your policy consistent,
Eric Olden:Across three different clouds.
Eric Olden:You would need to know how to program that one policy in three different
Eric Olden:APIs, three different cloud platforms, and three different data models.
Eric Olden:It gets very confusing because you're gonna be dealing with
Eric Olden:very quickly hundreds, if not thousands of these policies.
Eric Olden:'cause they, you know, just the nature of it.
Eric Olden:You have more of the more applications, more data you have, the more of these
Eric Olden:policies you need to think about.
Eric Olden:So, What do you do?
Eric Olden:Wouldn't it be nice if there was a universal language that would
Eric Olden:define policy that would work and be translatable to your Babelfish example?
Eric Olden:What if we had Babelfish for policy and, uh, we helped at Strata,
Eric Olden:we helped create a new standard.
Eric Olden:Uh, called I D Q L stands for Identity Query Language and we built a reference
Eric Olden:implementation in open source at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation,
Eric Olden:the C N C F, which is the organization where Kubernetes and some of these
Eric Olden:other cloud native technologies lives.
Eric Olden:And what I D Q L will do is policy orchestration.
Eric Olden:So imagine you've got two clouds, Azure and a w s.
Eric Olden:And let's say for instance, you want to get your policies from
Eric Olden:Azure to be the same in a W Ss.
Eric Olden:Well, you can take this tool called hexa, it's free, point it at the A w Ss and
Eric Olden:it'll discover policies that are in there.
Eric Olden:'cause it's programmed to know the APIs.
Eric Olden:It'll pull out your policies and say, okay, I've got 3000 of 'em and this
Eric Olden:is what they are structured to do.
Eric Olden:Translates 'em from the imperative.
Eric Olden:A proprietary structure that they live in a W Ss and turns
Eric Olden:it into a generic, uh, middle declarative language called I D Q L.
Eric Olden:And it's a declarative representation, human readable, which is really handy
Eric Olden:for a lot of auditing use cases.
Eric Olden:You say, okay, great, well what am I gonna do with this generic thing?
Eric Olden:Because I wanna.
Eric Olden:Push it into, um, Azure.
Eric Olden:And so HEXA can then say, okay, you want to translate it from generic to specific?
Eric Olden:No problem.
Eric Olden:I got that.
Eric Olden:And you just run that orchestration in the other direction.
Eric Olden:And what you end up with at, at the end is, uh, two things.
Eric Olden:One is consistent policy in two places and a human readable,
Eric Olden:easy to audit, way to categorize and inventory all your policies.
Eric Olden:In this open free I D Q L standard.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:That's
W. Curtis Preston:like that.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, so let me give you another scenario and you tell me if you, uh, I mean,
W. Curtis Preston:this is what happens, Eric, when you create a new product category.
W. Curtis Preston:So what about, uh, the scenario of, it's sort of two things, which there
W. Curtis Preston:could be one solution or you could just go, no, that's not what we do.
W. Curtis Preston:So I currently use Okta and I want to use, what's the, the main Okta competitor.
W. Curtis Preston:What's the what?
Eric Olden:Microsoft Azure Active Directory is pretty
W. Curtis Preston:I was thinking of like some other third party
W. Curtis Preston:company, but it doesn't matter.
W. Curtis Preston:I wanna switch from Okta to Azure, um, or I wanna switch from Azure to Okta or
W. Curtis Preston:the scenario that you laid out earlier.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, we just acquired a company and one of us is Azure and one of us is Okta
W. Curtis Preston:and we want to go to one of those.
W. Curtis Preston:Right.
W. Curtis Preston:Uh, how, how do you, or do you help with that transition?
Eric Olden:Yeah, a very common use case is, uh, modernization.
Eric Olden:So yes, you can go from two modern ones like Okta and Azure
Eric Olden:AD are both cutting edge, modern.
Eric Olden:Um, but often when you look at the enterprise, they've got stuff that's
Eric Olden:been running for like 5, 10, 25 years and they're saying, well, geez, this
Eric Olden:thing was built years and decades before.
Eric Olden:Things like.
Eric Olden:Authentication or passwordless and all that came out.
Eric Olden:So how do we modernize it?
Eric Olden:How do we get the applications that are used to working on prem
Eric Olden:and going to a legacy system?
Eric Olden:How do we make that work with the new cloud stuff?
Eric Olden:And so that modernization recipe, Or that use case, uh, the way that you
Eric Olden:do that is you, uh, really quickly you would connect your two legacy
Eric Olden:or your legacy i d P into the fabric and your cloud one into the fabric.
Eric Olden:And those don't require code.
Eric Olden:It's just kind of plug and play.
Eric Olden:So now you've got two IDPs.
Eric Olden:Then you tell the orchestrator this is the application today,
Eric Olden:it's going to, um, the old system.
Eric Olden:And we want to switch that to talk to the new system.
Eric Olden:Then you configure that orchestrator and say, look, when a user logs in,
Eric Olden:direct them to the cloud system.
Eric Olden:And if that cloud system is using a different protocol, then the
Eric Olden:old system, the orchestrator, for instance, let's say that the new
Eric Olden:system uses SAML or federated.
Eric Olden:Single sign on the security assertion markup language and the
Eric Olden:old one is using old school cookies.
Eric Olden:Well, the orchestrator would say, okay, I need to talk to Azure AD
Eric Olden:using saml and I'm gonna do that flow the, the kind of exchange of
Eric Olden:the identity information with Azure.
Eric Olden:And then when I come back and that user is authenticated, I will, uh,
Eric Olden:create a session to that application that looks just like that old
Eric Olden:school, one that uses cookies.
Eric Olden:And you can basically, I don't wanna say trick 'cause you know, it's not like
Eric Olden:nefarious or anything like that, but the facade aspect of the abstraction layer.
Eric Olden:It always presents what the application's already expecting in this example,
Eric Olden:a cookie or something like that.
Eric Olden:And so when the user comes through, they don't see any of that.
Eric Olden:They just go to the website and it's like, Hey, I am, uh, going into the
Eric Olden:same maybe sign-on portal, but under the covers I actually got authenticated
Eric Olden:against the new thing, not the old thing.
Eric Olden:And everything works and it's seamless.
W. Curtis Preston:And are you, are you moving or copying like
W. Curtis Preston:identities from one to the other?
Eric Olden:Um, generally, no.
W. Curtis Preston:customer?
Eric Olden:Yeah, it, it's generally up to the customer.
Eric Olden:You can, but generally we find people have these systems already set up.
Eric Olden:That said, there's a use case that a lot of people like about, uh,
Eric Olden:just in time or j i t provision.
Eric Olden:So let's say going into that modernization thing, we've got a million accounts
Eric Olden:on-prem and Oracle system, and we want to move all of those accounts
Eric Olden:into the cloud system and what the orchestrator can do when the user
Eric Olden:comes in, It can verify that user.
Eric Olden:Maybe it's most likely an old system is gonna be a password.
Eric Olden:It'll verify that user's password and user ID against Oracle.
Eric Olden:If that's successful, then that orchestrator will say, ah, I've been
Eric Olden:programmed to go create a new account for you, and I'm gonna talk to the Azure ad.
Eric Olden:For instance, I'm gonna create a new account for Eric.
Eric Olden:I know the user id 'cause I just.
Eric Olden:Verified it, and I'm gonna say this user ID is, um, now need, we created
Eric Olden:an account in the cloud and you can even, you know, securely get that
Eric Olden:password into that, uh, target system.
Eric Olden:And so then the next time the user comes in, The orchestrator can flag
Eric Olden:that user and say, wait a minute, you've already been migrated, so I'm
Eric Olden:not gonna go through that same steps.
Eric Olden:I'm gonna just push point you over to the cloud system.
Eric Olden:And now that user, the same username and password are
Eric Olden:gonna work in the cloud system.
Eric Olden:And the nice thing about just in time is that you don't have this big bang.
Eric Olden:And what happens is it's a lot more gradual.
Eric Olden:And so you don't have those crazy weekends where you're like, oh,
Eric Olden:we're gonna do a hard switchover.
Eric Olden:It's just let it run.
Eric Olden:For typically 90 days, you'll get majority of your users over there.
Eric Olden:And then for the ones that haven't moved, you can, you can batch 'em and get them
Eric Olden:over there and have them go through like a pa uh, account verification so
Eric Olden:you don't have dormant account risk or you minimize it, I should say.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:yeah, based on your answer, I, I think your answer
W. Curtis Preston:to my question is actually yes.
W. Curtis Preston:You just don't do them in mass.
W. Curtis Preston:You do the, you, you bring the, the user over when they
W. Curtis Preston:authenticate with the system,
Eric Olden:That's right.
W. Curtis Preston:is what, what I heard you say.
W. Curtis Preston:Okay.
Eric Olden:It's optional is is what I was trying to say.
Eric Olden:You don't have to, but if you want to, this is the way we would recommend it.
W. Curtis Preston:Gotcha.
W. Curtis Preston:Well, we're, we're kind of running short on time today, Eric.
W. Curtis Preston:Is there anything that you didn't get to talk about that you'd like to talk
W. Curtis Preston:about in our last few minutes together?
W. Curtis Preston:I.
Eric Olden:Uh, well, you know, this has been a great conversation.
Eric Olden:I think, you know, if, if this is interesting to the audience, um,
Eric Olden:they could find out more about our, uh, platform@strata.io.
Eric Olden:And, um, we also have a fun thing.
Eric Olden:We like to, we call it the identity orchestration challenge,
Eric Olden:the use case challenge.
Eric Olden:So, um, check out our website at strata.io/podcast and if you throw a
Eric Olden:use case to us, just find the hardest one that you think we couldn't solve
Eric Olden:and, um, we'd love to demo it for you.
Eric Olden:Here's how it works, and I'll give you a pair of the Apple Air Pod
Eric Olden:Pro, the ones that go in the ear.
Eric Olden:I don't know the names exactly, but, uh, AirPod Pro I think is what it's called
W. Curtis Preston:the ones, yeah.
Eric Olden:the good ones.
Eric Olden:And, um, yeah, so just check it out.
Eric Olden:We'll show you how it works and we'd love to, uh, to have a conversation with you
W. Curtis Preston:So, uh, I, I, does anybody still use n i s?
W. Curtis Preston:You remember n i s the na?
Eric Olden:naming information service.
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:Does anybody still use that?
Eric Olden:yeah, I bet you know, in the big enterprise's, NetWare,
Eric Olden:that's still running around, I'm sure.
W. Curtis Preston:Lord.
W. Curtis Preston:just, that was, that was what we used back in the, back in the day
W. Curtis Preston:was n i s even that, that's even before your time Prasanna, I
Prasanna Malaiyandi:It is.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yep.
W. Curtis Preston:Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston:Well, thanks, thanks Prasanna for, uh, hanging out.
W. Curtis Preston:Good questions again,
Prasanna Malaiyandi:Yeah, I try.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:I try.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:And Eric, it's nice to meet you and Curtis, I do want to
Prasanna Malaiyandi:hear about the Barbenheimer,
W. Curtis Preston:Barbenheimer.
W. Curtis Preston:Absolutely.
W. Curtis Preston:Well, you know me, you'll hear about it.
Prasanna Malaiyandi:will hear about it.
W. Curtis Preston:And, um, and thanks Eric for coming on
Eric Olden:Thanks so much.
Eric Olden:Had a great time.
Eric Olden:Appreciate it.
W. Curtis Preston:and, uh, thanks again to our listeners.
W. Curtis Preston:We'd be nothing without you, and remember to subscribe so
W. Curtis Preston:that you can restore it all.
W. Curtis Preston:There was a file, but I deleted it.
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W. Curtis Preston:It didn't work at all.
W. Curtis Preston:Think of you up.
W. Curtis Preston:It would work if it wasn't.
W. Curtis Preston:And rescue.
W. Curtis Preston:Yourself into every backup run, hoping not just for once.
W. Curtis Preston:It'll be completely done.
W. Curtis Preston:Maybe Sunday it'll.
W. Curtis Preston:You could,
W. Curtis Preston:you could restore it