Shownotes
- Why there always seems to be a “leadership crisis” in so many churches.
- How leadership development precedes the multiplication of disciples, communities, and churches.
- How any knowledge, skill, or spiritual practice can be passed on through this process.
- Why making everything simple and reproducible is key to multiplying leaders.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Discipleship and Missional Resources Missio Publishing
Transcripts
The church has historically required people to be at a very high level of education and proven experience before they'll release them to lead and equip others, or even be a central part of Disciple making.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we are never gonna see Gospel movement.
Caesar Kalinowski:Of multiplication that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not gonna happen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Leadership development is actually just discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Further up the slope, walking with people longer and deeper into the ways of Jesus and the kingdom of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Making mature disciples who then lead others will include more experience and time and greater trust must be built in both directions.
Caesar Kalinowski:You and them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Them and you.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it is basically discipleship just over the longer haul.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you use this simple but proven process in everything you do with all the disciples in your life, well, it'll put you on a path of natural and reproducible leadership development.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hollenbe, the Man,
Heath Hollensbe:a very British name, you know, is it?
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Liverpool.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh man.
Heath Hollensbe:What I've been told.
Heath Hollensbe:You're a liver puddling, isn't it?
Heath Hollensbe:Weird?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Liver puddling.
Heath Hollensbe:Have you, you've, you've been there.
Heath Hollensbe:We've talked about this.
Heath Hollensbe:I love it.
Heath Hollensbe:It's such a great city.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was just looking at a picture of me standing in front of the Cavern Club.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, just, I just, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I came across it yesterday.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I was like, man, that was so fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:We were there like at 10 in the morning or something, you know, 10 or 30 in the morning.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody's got pints.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're all singing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yellow Submarine.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, it's like they're going nuts.
Caesar Kalinowski:See now 24 7, I swear.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that fun?
Caesar Kalinowski:For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, the Cavern Club, it's like the famous club in Liverpool that the Beatles played like hundreds of gigs when they were just squeaky little kids starting out didn't even know what they were doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and they got so many pictures of all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you, if you like the Beatles, even a little, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cavern Club.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've actually
Heath Hollensbe:thought recently, like the Rosetta Stone, you know, where you can learn a language.
Heath Hollensbe:One of the options is British English.
Heath Hollensbe:So I'm like, if you wanna,
Caesar Kalinowski:well see now, I dunno if you know this about Liverpool though, is they, they speak a specific language.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's called scouts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's very
Heath Hollensbe:unique to that area.
Heath Hollensbe:It's very
Caesar Kalinowski:unique.
Caesar Kalinowski:And hear somebody from Liverpool, you know, right away I was told like, you'll never even understand these people if you go to their pub.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like I do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the magic of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's so cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's videos, you can go and learn how to speak scouts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, let's move.
Caesar Kalinowski:To our topic today,
Heath Hollensbe:screech on the breaks and move towards a, something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately is that leadership development in the church that seems to proceed multiplication of communities on Missional.
Heath Hollensbe:. Caesar Kalinowski: Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:If you're not developing leaders, it's hard to multiply anything.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Pretty much any organization would operate that same way, but for most of my life, leadership development has been kind of a mysterious process.
Heath Hollensbe:Not really defined.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Or.
Heath Hollensbe:Definitely not immediately practical.
Heath Hollensbe:And our listeners have been asking questions lately about multiplication in their communities,
Caesar Kalinowski:which is good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's
Heath Hollensbe:awesome.
Heath Hollensbe:Right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Which is what we want.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:But it's often coupled with this lack of understanding on how to develop people to the point of actually being able to lead and Disciple others.
Heath Hollensbe:So a, a question that I have is, what help can we offer today that can get folks unstuck and maybe even actually give them a whole new way of seeing leadership development?
Heath Hollensbe:Great question and observation.
Heath Hollensbe:My
Caesar Kalinowski:brother, and I've seen that too.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's been a lot of chatter both in the Facebook group, but also emails we've gotten, and I think because we may have all been taught sort of a 1 0 1, 2 0 1, 3 0 1, et cetera, sort of info based learning and development.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:We might sort of assume that that's how discipleship works.
Caesar Kalinowski:It doesn't, and therefore that's how leaders get developed too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, it's not, it's like, you know, it's not just info download and now boom, you're a leader.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Leadership development is actually just discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Further up the slope.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're walking with people longer and deeper into the ways of Jesus and the kingdom of God, and you're building trust in both directions, and you're learning how to trust the spirit and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, um, and so I, I, I want, I want.
Caesar Kalinowski:People to understand that they can actually do this and they can help people learn some things and then try some more and then sort of suck forward as I've been coined, saying, and you really can develop leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not that mystical.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:So let's, I really enjoy the process that you've used
Heath Hollensbe:for many years when developing leaders, because I find it.
Heath Hollensbe:Immediately usable and it makes a lot of sense.
Heath Hollensbe:So let's actually work through breaking down.
Heath Hollensbe:Great.
Heath Hollensbe:That
Heath Hollensbe:process.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is gonna be super practical.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So regardless of what knowledge or skill or spiritual practice that you want impart to your leaders or disciples or potential new leaders, and then see them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Begin to master those things and then pass them on others, you, you'll need a process.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Cuz otherwise it doesn't just happen accidentally.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll need a process that helps ensure the transfer and the reproduction that you're hoping for, both in the content or the task, but also the ethos and how the Gospel speaks into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So years ago, uh, a foreign missionary friend of mine, guy named John Witte, I don't know if you're listening to John, thanks for this.
Caesar Kalinowski:He dropped sort of a well proven method on me.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was called MAWL, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:It was an acronym, m a w l.
Caesar Kalinowski:It stood for model.
Caesar Kalinowski:Assist, watch and leave.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh
Caesar Kalinowski:yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So mawl sounds a little aggressive, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I know.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's break
Caesar Kalinowski:this down for couple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:He was always like, yeah, well you got a mawl people.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, uh, sometimes it feels like I have, and I don't, I didn't mean to.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm a little aggressive, but, okay, so let's break it down.
Caesar Kalinowski:First one, m mo of mawl model.
Caesar Kalinowski:People need to hear.
Caesar Kalinowski:They need to hear you.
Caesar Kalinowski:They need to see you.
Caesar Kalinowski:They need to experience you living out and modeling the things that you want them to learn, not just head knowledge, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:They need to, needs to be modeled to get to the point of reproducing it themselves and then in others, and they'll also need a method to pass it on to the next generation.
Caesar Kalinowski:So MAWL actually models this for them too.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you're intentionally developing a leader and you're using this acronym of MAWL, model Assist, watch and Leave, I, I want to encourage you like, Let people know that's what you're doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cuz then even as you pass on specific things, you're also also giving them the process to do the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, and I'm
Caesar Kalinowski:gonna say, I would argue that to model properly can't be done in a one hour service on Sunday mornings if that's the only way that you're doing it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, yeah, you're like, okay, so this is what it looks like to walk alongside a broken family where the husband's left and there's drug abuse and there's been some physical abuse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is what it looks like to do that for like six months or a year and help 'em pay their bills.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're not gonna get that on a No, I'm sorry.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're just not gonna get that sitting in the seat, you
Heath Hollensbe:know?
Heath Hollensbe:Would you say that there are maybe any challenges connected to this first step?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, actually all the steps do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Good insight.
Caesar Kalinowski:So with, here's the challenge, connected to modeling things you'll need to be sure to make everything simple and reproducible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Explaining why you're doing what you're doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, don't miss this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Leaders will also have to have access to you in order to actually see you model this lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's one thing to model a task, but what if it's like, Hey, parenting like this, you know, this process is not reserved for formal teaching moments.
Caesar Kalinowski:Only leaders need to see you model.
Caesar Kalinowski:All of life skills needed to be and make mature disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if it's like parenting, well, have you ever taken anybody to like, Hey, help me put the kids to bed, or, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I, I'm, I'm getting after the kids get the pajamas on, uh, we do a little like nighttime ritual where you kind of talk about the day and we make sure that everybody's forgiven and we thank Jesus for good things.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then I talk 'em to be like, come and do that with me tonight, or, or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, or you could do a class on like Christian parenting, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Being a good Christian dad, it's way different.
Caesar Kalinowski:So people are gonna have to have access to your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:For this to happen and it, you'll have to break it down into simple and reproducible task.
Caesar Kalinowski:We assume that like we do things like, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've always done it that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why?
Caesar Kalinowski:Explain why.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, I always stop here and ask my son this question and I ask it this way, and then I always encourage him regardless.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:You have to really break that kind of stuff down.
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:we've been doing that a lot, even in our own parenting.
Heath Hollensbe:I remember even last night, we were grilling hot dogs.
Heath Hollensbe:We had some neighbors over and it was a great opportunity to let my son.
Heath Hollensbe:That's an easy task, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Here's a grill.
Heath Hollensbe:This is how you get it hot.
Heath Hollensbe:Watch out for this.
Heath Hollensbe:This is how you put the hot dogs.
Heath Hollensbe:You don't use the same, you know, so as you're actually walking them through that sort of discipleship plan, love it.
Heath Hollensbe:That's the M model, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Let's look at the next step.
Heath Hollensbe:Assist.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:A assist.
Caesar Kalinowski:So after your leaders have seen you do something for a while, now it's time for you to assist them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or have them assist you as they begin to take some ownership and leadership in that area or in that thing or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Additionally, they might continue on this trail of learning by assisting you over a long period of time.
Caesar Kalinowski:If it's more complicated or there's a lot of nuance to it or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so, so the A is for assist, let them assist you or you assist them, like, Hey, let me show you how to do that now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, let me show you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me put your hand on that, or we're gonna.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we're gonna team teach this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, remember when we went through the, you know, the story of God, hey, we're doing it again here in a couple months.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want you to do like every other story with me, or I'll do the story and you do the dialogue, or vice versa or whatever, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So,
Heath Hollensbe:yeah, it reminds
Heath Hollensbe:me of, um, and I shared this probably a year and a half ago on the show.
Heath Hollensbe:They were asking ahead of a hamburger chain, very successful one.
Heath Hollensbe:What do you, what do you.
Heath Hollensbe:Blame your success on is the hamburger chain.
Heath Hollensbe:And he said, the CEO said, I, I determined very early on that I'm not gonna teach people how to make hamburgers, but I'm gonna teach people to teach people how to make hamburgers.
Heath Hollensbe:Mm-hmm.
Heath Hollensbe:There's that multiplication of you.
Heath Hollensbe:You can't control everything.
Heath Hollensbe:You're gonna have to hand this off.
Heath Hollensbe:It's like the baton and
Heath Hollensbe:the race.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Building leadership Right into the process of teaching it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you do that with vol, like you do that with volunteers.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that they realize like, your job will never be done.
Caesar Kalinowski:Even if you wanna leave this particular role or part of the family life or whatever, until you've equipped someone else to do it in your place.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like it's just built in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like you're only gonna have to train a handful of people in your life, and it's like, I see people like begging people like, oh, we don't have any children's workers.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or like the nurseries empty.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like Then you didn't train those people very well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:What sort of challenges, like what would you watch out for with this?
Heath Hollensbe:A the assist step.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Good question.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, the challenge here is that skills take time to develop.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you gotta be patient and you gotta be super encouraging.
Caesar Kalinowski:So obviously, you know, for a lot of us who are like, I could just do this myself better, I could just do it so much quicker.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's like, well yeah, if you don't help them do things in the ways you hope to reproduce.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, they'll be left to wing it for themselves and they may lose the ethos or the essence of what it is you're hoping to transfer to them.
Caesar Kalinowski:So not just task, but the vibe, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:The whole ethos.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're making another original Disciple, not a second or third generation photocopy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so we've got M for model, A for assist.
Caesar Kalinowski:As we're moving through MAWL, the next step is gonna be W
Caesar Kalinowski:for watch.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So now the watch sort of step of this MAWL-ing people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now you step back and you watch your apprentice do or lead the very things that they've seen you do and they've been assisted in, or they've been assisting you in learning and living out and often at this point.
Caesar Kalinowski:You are letting this person lead you in this area or activity as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I've even had times where like I'm teaching gospel fluency and I have a young leader and I'm pouring into it and I'm starting to back off and say, Hey, you're taking, you know, like leadership in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then now they're challenging me.
Caesar Kalinowski:I.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're challenging my thoughts or words or whatever and it's, that's beautiful and it's humble, but it's part of them learning to lead and go like, no, see, this is how it works in dad's family.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, and, and the challenge with this one is it can be hard not to interfere or let others do things that you know you could do better again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Trust God here.
Caesar Kalinowski:We all learn best by doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Followed by encouragement and then any kind of course correction, like, Hey, this is what you did so well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what else?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I found that when I do this and that, it also helps, or like, if you ask that, that way, sometimes that unlocks a person's heart a little differently.
Caesar Kalinowski:You might try that, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So be sure to give feedback to your leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't just leave 'em dangling, like often.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's not called, you know, leadership development or, you know, um, delegating.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's called abdication.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So be sure to give feedback to your leaders, starting with the positive, and then discuss areas you think they can improve in loop back and revisit them periodically.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like say, you know, they're doing it with others like, like peek in, like check in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Check in on on them or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Give them further encouragement or course correction to ensure that they're faithfully reproducing the things that you've taught them.
Caesar Kalinowski:So often we hear people like, well, our Missional Community multiplied, and it's like, what did they multiply?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't really know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I haven't seen them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it turns out all they're really doing is a weekly dinner.
Caesar Kalinowski:But now they're taking, you know, they're doing it once a month only, and now they're taking the summers off.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, whoa, whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:You didn't reproduce the whole ethos and family life.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Culture's not there.
Heath Hollensbe:Right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Well,
Heath Hollensbe:and the other thing too, that, that I hear quite a bit, and I, and I would say in my own life is, uh, when I would be corrected in stuff, the leadership would often go like, well, that's not how I would do it.
Heath Hollensbe:Like, well, of course not.
Heath Hollensbe:Cause we're different people.
Heath Hollensbe:So I think yeah, like, like letting them lead out of their identity.
Heath Hollensbe:And what you talk about a lot is the good news sandwich, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, it's like encourage correct in the middle and then encourage in the end like, hey, yeah, most people
Caesar Kalinowski:you did really great at meet that world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well
Heath Hollensbe:yeah, you did really good at this.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, like maybe in the future consider this, but ultimately I'm super encouraged on the track you're on and you're gonna do great.
Heath Hollensbe:And so that Let's keep going.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's easily, and I don't know of anything of value that usually is like, Nope, I saw you do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I got it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, don't trust that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't just, that's not with anything important.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like if you listened to our episode last week on reparenting, the culture, this fits right into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this fits into just straight up parenting, by the way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like teach your kids this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, think about how, how did you teach your kids to tie their shoe?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Model assist watch.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then this last one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we're
Heath Hollensbe:gonna get, this is probably the hardest step, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Leaving,
Caesar Kalinowski:uh, for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So eventually you'll need to leave these young leaders or, you know, not in age, but you know, new leaders alone to lead in your community or send 'em off to multiply the very skills and aspects of this missionary lifestyle that you've equipped them in.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you've walked through the first three steps of modeling, assisting in, you know, and then watching them and giving good feedback, then this step is crucial to their maturity and the expansion of the kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really is like you, you gotta do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you raised your kids, like we always say, raise your kids to move out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, and, and that's not a mean thing or a weird thing, but your kids need to know, like, no, I'm teaching you a lot of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the ethos behind it now the Gospel connects to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause you're gonna be a dad someday, honey.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's gotta be someday your mom into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they know why and they're expecting it coming.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So when you're looking at the, the l the leave aspect,
Heath Hollensbe:what, um, what are the things that you would caution being careful of?
Heath Hollensbe:Here in this one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well,
Caesar Kalinowski:if you don't leave or send them to off to lead new things, lead new MI mission communities take ownership.
Caesar Kalinowski:They'll stay dependent on you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just like when they were babies, just when they were young disciples, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll never get to Kingdom movement in expansion and the mission will stay at the size and pace that we can handle alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:If we don't do this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we're not looking for assistance, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:But where we sit on our throne afterwards and now everybody just does task around us.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're looking for kingdom multiplication here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:God said he would fill the world with his glory and Jesus said, here's how you're gonna do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go and make disciples of mine.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:In every nook and cranny filling the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:With my glory, with my glory with who I am.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so this is so clutch and I, I hope this helps demystify this a little bit for people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cuz if you'll, you'll just write this down and of course it'll be a part of the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, download the whole model.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's just watch and leave thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it's not that tough.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think everybody's got locked in their head now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start to think through this, start to practice it with your own kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and
Heath Hollensbe:you see too with, so I mean, I've.
Heath Hollensbe:In our, you've done it for certain in my life, but I think in our community too, you start seeing people, we talk about the, the invitation and the challenge when people will actually start wanting to step up.
Heath Hollensbe:That's something like, can things over and and trust them and they'll usually push in a little bit more.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And that's a great opportunity to like, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Foster.
Heath Hollensbe:That's how you foster
Heath Hollensbe:your leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, you know, and, and the church is historically required to people to be at such a high level of education and performance and experience before they'll, you know, release 'em to lead and multiply.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:MAWL your people, MAWL your people, and then release 'em to lead.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, think about where you were five years ago, two years ago, 20 years ago.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, I don't even like hearing sermons I preached 30 years ago, heresy . You know, I dunno.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you know, leadership development, like I said earlier, is actually just discipleship further up the slope.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And walking and walking with people and being patient.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about how much time Jesus spent with his disciples and it was in all of life ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, it was on beaches and boats and you know, we've talked about the discipleship environment of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:A few episodes back and all, you know, making mature disciples who lead others will include more experience and time and greater trust must be built.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, it's, it's really, it's, this is a continuation of discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I, I hope this helps and I hope people will start to MAWL others and, you know, model assist, watch, and then leave them be let 'em lead, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And, and I love that
Heath Hollensbe:cuz that is the hardest thing is, you know, I've spent a lot of time in the institutional church and there's not an opportunity for people to grow up and lead unless you're church staff and the staff's exhausted.
Heath Hollensbe:Or unless you're the best singer.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:Other than that you're not,
Heath Hollensbe:you know,
Caesar Kalinowski:like sometimes I, I feel like people.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like in leadership, the bar is like the, the threshold to leadership is so high.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like who gets to lead?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh well seminary this and that, and they've been around, you're tithing like crazy and you think your kids are perfect and all, you know, so the threshold's super high, but then the bar of what we call people to, yeah, it's not all of life discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well now that you've made it, You get to teach that 1 0 1 class.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or exactly like you get to be an usher, like you're the lead usher.
Caesar Kalinowski:Someday I can see it coming buddy.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're gonna have the, you're gonna have special badge with the red star in the corner, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:But so we set the threshold super high, but then the bar is really low.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I say, flip that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Set the threshold low.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like people are leaning in, start to model things to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let 'em know, Hey, I'm modeling this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Watch what I'm doing, and talk about it afterwards.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then let 'em help.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let 'em help you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or you start helping them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Set the.
Caesar Kalinowski:Threshold low and set the bar high.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because you know where this is going.
Caesar Kalinowski:All of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is gonna lead to like the Gospel informing all of life instead of, instead of this high threshold with a low bar, like all you gotta do is show up and hand out flyers.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, oh my gosh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Set the threshold low.
Caesar Kalinowski:Set the bar high.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and man, this, this is the best life you ever get to live.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:As always, I wanna leave everyone with the big three takeaways from what we've been talking about today.
Caesar Kalinowski:If nothing else, you don't wanna miss these, and you can always get a printable PDF of this week's big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's free download.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just go over to every day Disciple dot com slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, first one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not everyone is a natural born leader, but everyone can lead in some aspect and help others learn too.
Caesar Kalinowski:So just like with our own natural children, all of life in a Gospel center and community must be taught to others and passed on for them to lead and then do the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is how we see multiplication and natural growth happening.
Caesar Kalinowski:People always complain, and they're just not enough leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have a leadership crisis.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have a leadership development crisis.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not looking to make a photocopy of yourself, like I said.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're, you're helping people learn from you and then trust the spirit to make this their own life, and they're gonna be an original Disciple of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then they're gonna pass it on to others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it, it might not be in every way, but everybody can lead in some ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And secondly, God has given you unique experiences and perspectives and gifts to be used to show others what he's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:So what are the body of Christ?
Caesar Kalinowski:We need each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:These things are often the same things that, that we're going to do with others that we find easiest to do and model and teach others.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and here's a bit of a cautionary thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:We often get our biggest dose of self-worth from those things, and so we wanna hang onto 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you holding onto those things for yourself or are you passing them on to others so they too can glorify God through their lives and experiences and through their lives of service as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Our identity is secure in Christ, and what we do does not equal who we are.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you can always be looking to work yourself out of a job, so to speak by, by developing others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Alright, number three, man
Heath Hollensbe:. Caesar Kalinowski: Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Number three.
Heath Hollensbe:Question here.
Heath Hollensbe:This is where like the rubber hits the road.
Heath Hollensbe:What areas of leadership and service are you performing right now?
Heath Hollensbe:Like in your church or Missional, Community or whatever that you need to start MAWL-ing others in?
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm?
Heath Hollensbe:Which of the four steps of model assist, watch and leave do you find the hardest to do?
Heath Hollensbe:Like even as you're hearing this, like you go like, eh, I'm pretty good at that, but not so much this.
Heath Hollensbe:Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you as you sit down, like I'm gonna say as soon as possible right now with paper and pen, and make a list of all the activities and responsibilities that you have within your Missional, Community, your church right now.
Heath Hollensbe:And you may be modeling a lot of stuff to others, but who specifically do you need to invite in to assist you or you're gonna help them and then move on through the other steps until they can own this for themselves?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, that's a great question.
Heath Hollensbe:And here's a bonus tip.
Heath Hollensbe:Be sure, and I mentioned this earlier, be sure to explain MAWL to people.
Heath Hollensbe:Right, the model assist, watch, leave to those in your community or church that you're developing so they understand exactly why you're doing the things you're doing in the order you're doing them.
Heath Hollensbe:And, and why am I doing this with you?
Heath Hollensbe:And then they'll already have that same model assist, watch, leave, pattern and process to use going forward.
Heath Hollensbe:So don't do it like Yoda, Jesus, like sneaky man, you know?
Heath Hollensbe:And weren't you paying attention?
Heath Hollensbe:And I was explaining it.
Heath Hollensbe:And then you remember when you helped me?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, no, let 'em know you're doing it.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:They're gonna pay attention a whole lot differently.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:And they're gonna be honored by it too.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, that's it for today.
Heath Hollensbe:Hope you'll join me next week.
Heath Hollensbe:We're gonna continue to learn how the Gospel speaks into all of normal life and is foundational to making discipleship and mission a lifestyle instead of a program of the church.
Heath Hollensbe:I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
