Shownotes
- How patience plays a vital role in the process of discipling someone.
- Why baptism is a model for our ongoing immersion into Gospel Identity.
- The need for discipleship to happen in different environments of life.
- How "micro churches" that only mirror a Sunday church service are missing the mark.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Discipleship and Missional Resources Missio PublishingIn light of today’s topic, you might find this helpful:
Be The Church
Transcripts
I think if anybody wanted proof of that in scripture and in Jesus life, just go do a little timeline of Jesus relationship with Peter.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the highs and lows of that trajectory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my goodness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it here?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it then?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it here?
Caesar Kalinowski:He got converted.
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Then?
Caesar Kalinowski:When did he really wait?
Caesar Kalinowski:Denial.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hold on.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Craziness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, then it all got straightened out and he was fine.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait, well, let's jump way ahead in Jerusalem.
Caesar Kalinowski:30 years later, Paul's coming back going, Hey Peter.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, nobody needs that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just Jesus remember, like, I mean, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a long journey, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thank you, Jesus, for your patience and love and care, and that you now pour your grace out and that patience through others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we tend to think, you know, how's God doing all this?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like God's gonna give you grace, brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's gonna provide for your needs.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's gonna speak.
Caesar Kalinowski:How does he do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Through humans.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, the mystery revealed by his spirit indwelling you and me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the rest of the body of Christ, the brothers and sisters, the saints.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how grace happens.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how patience is learned.
Announcer:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Announcer:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Announcer:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Announcer:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, how you doing this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you having the best?
Caesar Kalinowski:Week ever, or not so much?
Caesar Kalinowski:Where are you at in that scale of one to 10?
Caesar Kalinowski:Best week ever or not so much?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, today when I'm recording this, I am just a couple of days away from heading out to do some everyday Disciple training in Europe.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll be heading over to Budapest with Tina.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going over there to train a whole bunch of young leaders that are making disciples in some really exciting ways, both there in Budapest, but also in the Ukraine, and that's where we head from Budapest in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Probably the day you're listening to this, if you listen on the Monday that it's released, that's where Tina and I will be.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll actually be in Ukraine.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm recording this a little bit early.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, and then we're heading over to Brussels again, a bunch of young leaders that are so serious about making disciples in that country and doing it through relationship and community and all the things we talk about here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm pretty excited.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, if you hear this and it is like on that Monday, and so, you know, Hey, Tina Caesar are still in the Ukraine, I'd certainly appreciate your prayers both for effective discipleship, but also for protection since, as you probably know, there's some things going on over there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, let me read a review that came in.
Caesar Kalinowski:This came in from, uh, someone looks like they, their handle here in the review slot is called Learning More in English.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it says, uh, the, the podcast is pure gold.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what this series of two teaching podcast is from.
Caesar Kalinowski:Caesar Kalinowski on development of leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Especially leaders for a Missional Community environment.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm guessing he's referring to maybe the last couple of episodes or so back that we, we talked about MAWL-ing and you listened to my buddy John Witty, so awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he goes, where can I get some of those types of leaders?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of important, like essential to have Missional minded leaders to lead mission oriented communities.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says, news flash the church isn't the place that's developing these kinds of leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something different is needed.
Caesar Kalinowski:This podcast gives some very good, concise help.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's what we're trying to do, so thank you so much for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I appreciate it when any of you leave us review.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's both an encouragement to us, but then also to others who might be perusing podcasts, either being on an Apple device or on Spotify or wherever you, you can leave reviews and uh, then they go, oh, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
Caesar Kalinowski:So pay it forward.
Caesar Kalinowski:Bless me and those who are part of this podcast here everyday Disciple, but also bless some other fellow brothers and sisters on the road.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:And be sure to subscribe or follow or like, or whatever your platform allows you to do, and you can go to everyday Disciple dot com slash listen slash listen.
Caesar Kalinowski:That'll take you to a page that has all sorts of different environments.
Caesar Kalinowski:And links to places where you can hear podcasts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe you're all good on that, but if you're still listening to the podcast from our website, you may choose to listen to it, uh, some different ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:So how, however you wanna do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:There it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Also, if you are interested in learning, uh, full framework for discipleship and mission, much like in fact exactly like we talk about here on the podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you want some help growing in your gospel fluency and then seeing that grow out into your family life and into the life of your church.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'd love to help you with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Tina and I do in our coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:We could set up a short zoom call, get to know you better, figure out a little bit of your journey, how you've been making disciples so far, and see if the coaching we have to offer might be a good fit for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if it is, we'll get you started right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you wanna look into that, set up a discovery call with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, there you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd love to talk to you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, today we're gonna be discussing the patients required to actually make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:This discipleship is definitely more of a.
Caesar Kalinowski:Slow cooking process and not something done at microwave speeds.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe that's why the church in recent history has had such a hard time with making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've kinda become a culture that wants to see instant numbers and instant attendance and instant new programs.
Caesar Kalinowski:Today I'm gonna share a conversation with you that I had recently with my really good friend, Gino Curcuruto.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you're a regular listener of the podcast, you've heard him on here before just a couple months back.
Caesar Kalinowski:He and I discussed discipleship rhythms for a Missional Community, and Gino is a church planner and he leads a network of Missional Community churches called the Table.
Caesar Kalinowski:In Philadelphia.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really cool, really on the ground.
Caesar Kalinowski:He and his wife Jill, along with their family, truly live out a lifestyle of discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so not only is a really good friend, someone I've done a lot of ministry work with and all, but he is a practitioner that I trust and I learn a lot from.
Caesar Kalinowski:So listen in now as Gino and I talk about the patience needed when it comes to making disciples and how the early church leaders knew this.
Caesar Kalinowski:And had an expectation of taking a long time doing life with people as they were discipled to walk in the ways of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey Gino, it's great to have you back on the podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know we got a lot of feedback from the last time you were on Of course.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, but even if we didn't, I just love having you on hanging.
Caesar Kalinowski:How you been, how's things going there in Philly?
Gino Curcuruto:Oh, man.
Gino Curcuruto:Oh, really good.
Gino Curcuruto:Thanks for having me back.
Gino Curcuruto:It's always good to be with you and to see you.
Gino Curcuruto:I know everyone else doesn't get to see us right now, but it's good to see each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, we both look so good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, younger all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thinner, younger, faster, richer.
Gino Curcuruto:That's what happens over the years.
Gino Curcuruto:Right.
Gino Curcuruto:Looks so
Caesar Kalinowski:good.
Caesar Kalinowski:You, you got your cool church wall background going in your office there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's,
Gino Curcuruto:it's special.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so special.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's special.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's very special.
Caesar Kalinowski:It went up four by eight.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Perfect.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, we were talking the other day on the phone and I was like, oh, we gotta get you on and talk a little bit about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:You were reading a book about discipleship and church history and all, and you started like jazzing on this idea of how long the early church saw the process of discipleship and moving towards, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Certain ceremonies and aspects of that tell like, Best you can.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's pick that conversation back up and, and yeah, and I wanna get into some of that stuff because I think we're gonna find that, um, if, if discipleship feels like it takes a really long time, we're helping people move from unbelief to belief and faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:True faith seems like, wow, this is takes a long time.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're probably in really good historical church company.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the yes, that's,
Gino Curcuruto:that's exactly what hit me.
Gino Curcuruto:So the book is called The Patient Ferment.
Gino Curcuruto:Of the early church.
Gino Curcuruto:Maybe some of your listeners have read it by Alan Kreider, and I was struck by the idea that the early church had treaties documents written on really only one subject of mo of all the subjects.
Gino Curcuruto:And that was patience.
Gino Curcuruto:The, the long.
Gino Curcuruto:Time that it takes to be and to embody being a follower of Jesus.
Gino Curcuruto:And so how that played out was like, you know, they used the term catechesis, which sometimes is kind of a weird word, but this idea of catechesis right?
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Training people into the life of Jesus.
Gino Curcuruto:Because the early church was to be a Christian to follow.
Gino Curcuruto:Jesus meant you were leaving something else and there was a lot of risk.
Gino Curcuruto:So I think we know that historically, but they didn't see what, what hit me was they didn't seem to just be all about like, Hey, come in and you're one of us really quickly and let's get you baptized and in our newsletter and like raise funds from all the people that are coming.
Gino Curcuruto:There was a long process because they wanted to see.
Gino Curcuruto:Change in people's lives and they, they would say that it often took about three years before someone was baptized.
Gino Curcuruto:Wow.
Gino Curcuruto:And so, so baptism was like this, this, this ceremony that indicated that you're living a life that is as a follower of Jesus, even though you were participating.
Gino Curcuruto:And so how they organized things was not everything was open.
Gino Curcuruto:For everyone.
Gino Curcuruto:There were certain rhythms and gatherings that just weren't designed.
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:It never,
Caesar Kalinowski:that starts to push up against so much of our traditional contemporary understanding of church ecclesia and, and ecclesiology and all that because everything, uh, like maybe in the eighties or so, or maybe even earlier, got really geared to get a seeker in and get 'em on the team and get 'em baptized as soon as possible and all that, cuz that's the big marker of truth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, but, but what if they've not done any accounting of the cost?
Caesar Kalinowski:What if they don't understand the Gospel yet?
Caesar Kalinowski:They don't understand their identity?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is that the marker?
Caesar Kalinowski:And see, I think what happens is when you're, when you're measuring, when a, when a primary metric is attendance or numbers of people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, Then.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then yeah, then let's get 'em in as quick as possible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or membership.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, gotta get 'em in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cuz they're not, they can't be members if they're not baptized.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ugh.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was baptized.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, not in the right church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sorry, wrong denom.\.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Boy, boy.
Caesar Kalinowski:These early church fathers sort of they, that wasn't even on their radar it sounds like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it seems,
Gino Curcuruto:it seems as though their concern was something that they would call faithfulness, which I know that can be problematic, but I think it was faithfully living out the identity that you have in Jesus.
Gino Curcuruto:And that takes time to like not just drop from the head to the heart in a sense, and then lived out in your hands and feet, and they had awareness of that.
Gino Curcuruto:So it really had me thinking like, Do we do that?
Gino Curcuruto:Do we consider that there are certain spaces or gatherings that are just to help us grow in faithfulness and maybe not open for everyone?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, and let me just back up the truck a little there, Gino, when you're running over some gold here, brother, let's get it in the wash plant.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, just what you just said about identity and, and they wanted to be certain that people were beginning to believe the truth of their God-given and now Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Purchased identity and we think about what is really discipleship and, and we've said it this way a long time, I think you probably used some very similar language around helping people move from unbelief to belief in absolutely every area of life in in light of the Gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well that would certainly begin with identity in Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really a Trinitarian identity because it's right there in Matthew 28.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, all authorities been given into me, therefore, go and make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:How?
Caesar Kalinowski:By immersing them, baptizing them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Baptisto.
Caesar Kalinowski:That Greek word means to immersing them in what the name of the father, the name of the son.
Caesar Kalinowski:The name of the Holy Spirit.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like Jesus has given us the mission, but he's going, how's that gonna happen?
Caesar Kalinowski:You're gonna re-immerse.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're gonna re-immerse and re immerse them in their identity in the fact that they were actually created in our image, father, son, and spirit, and now, Re-imaged in Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And repowered by the spirit.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's what really discipleship's all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:That you're gonna begin to live more fully, increasingly in light of what's now true of you because of who Christ is and what he's accomplished.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that, that really starts to reframe what's going on in a baptism service.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:What if the community, the kingdom of God, the community that you're immersed into, like relationally, is an ongoing.
Gino Curcuruto:Immersion, if you will, in your identity.
Gino Curcuruto:What if that's the, so there is a ceremony maybe, you know, in some ways, but does that mean, I think this is kind of what you're getting at?
Gino Curcuruto:Like what does that mean?
Gino Curcuruto:What does that, yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Is that just a one time thing you're done or is there something about I.
Gino Curcuruto:Being in relationship that's continually drawing you into the reality of your identity or remembrance and, and lived out faith
Caesar Kalinowski:and everybody, don't freak out.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not saying don't baptize people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not saying that that is a, that was a culturally appropriate and in super important thing back in those days when Jesus mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Initiated that though he didn't start baptism.
Caesar Kalinowski:We think that was the case, but no, that started with Judaism thousands of years earlier with Mikva being washed, clean in living water from external.
Caesar Kalinowski:un-Cleanliness.
Caesar Kalinowski:And John the Baptist kind of kicked the new party into gear when he said, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:Repent.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, change your mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:Change your direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Live in light of what's true now, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Stop living in light of the do to be system and self-rule and all that live in light of what's true of you and who God is and all.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then so Jesus says, now go and make disciples and baptize them.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, why did, why did we turn that into a one time sort of, View, like we don't see communion as like, Hey, the one time member, member back in youth group, you raised your hand and we took communion.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why do we do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or why do we see it that way?
Caesar Kalinowski:I believe fully in the importance of, and the value of a communal sort of proclamation of, I believe this identity now, and that's why we baptize that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, Gino man, you've put your faith in Christ and you've begun to walk with him and move from unbelief to belief and self-rule to he's your Lord.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you believe that God is truly your father?
Caesar Kalinowski:You're dearly love son, and you, you have nothing to do to ever earn that or prove that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I do believe that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I wanna baptize you in the name of our father.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your father.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And do you believe that Jesus was a servant who came and gave his life for you?
Caesar Kalinowski:He's not only your Lord, but he came to serve you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he said, as I've been sent, I sent you, so you're now sent as a servant also.
Caesar Kalinowski:Of God and of the king.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just like your brother Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:I do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, let me baptize you in that name, that identity and, and then you sent, when Jesus says, and that's a missionary, you're a missionary, just like God was a missionary in the garden looking for people, where are you?
Caesar Kalinowski:And Jesus came on a missionary journey to this planet to save and seek us all and.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's you now, brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you believe that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, let me, let me baptize you in the name of the Holy Spirit who will now give you the power to live this life out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's a huge identity thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what's really going on there, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Why?
Caesar Kalinowski:Why do we seem seemingly think that's a one-time thing?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I think we think, and I'm not saying that it has to be the tub and the tank and everything, but what if, what if we said that's a, that's a public proclamation of it and you actually, you could do it more often.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've had people say, could I get rebaptized in light of what you just said, like identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was baptized like in youth group, but now I'm like 30.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you sure can, of course you can, can you take communion more than once?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you pray more than once?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you study the book of John more?
Caesar Kalinowski:I read it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I read it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't read it again.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, of course you can.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I really, man, I, I wanna grasp.
Caesar Kalinowski:Personally, and, and, and for those we lead and coach and all, but also for everyone listening that this idea of baptized, immersed in your identity is an ongoing thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And back to like where we started, this takes a long time to begin to understand and believe fully our true God-given gospel-centered identity, and then begin to live outta that increasingly looking more and more like Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's
Gino Curcuruto:a, it's a really, it's a really intriguing thought, right?
Gino Curcuruto:Because we don't.
Gino Curcuruto:We don't believe.
Gino Curcuruto:Maybe there are people that say this, like the proclamation of the Gospel only happens in certain circumstances and certain occasions we say it's something that you do in life because you need the Gospel.
Gino Curcuruto:You need to move from unbelief to believe, as you said, we don't.
Gino Curcuruto:I don't hold to like once a month.
Gino Curcuruto:We take communion as this ceremony because we have to, it's like every meal is, is like participating in our, our remembrance and participation with Jesus and big celebration present and celebrating this.
Gino Curcuruto:And so why have we culturally made baptism this kind of one time ceremony that we get excited about and then we don't necessarily.
Gino Curcuruto:Take the significance and apply it every day like you're saying, or an all of life as often as is needed,
Caesar Kalinowski:let's say.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now in light of all that, we, let's, let's move to where we were kind of getting to, but I had to put the brakes on there a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I appreciate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Gino Curcuruto:move a little quick.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes I get excited.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's also good, but this idea that, that every gathering, or every activity or every event wasn't designed for seekers per se.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or someone who wasn't even sure just yet of where they were at, but there was actually community activity that was for believers.
Caesar Kalinowski:There was a family reunion aspect to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:While clearly, and we talked about this several episodes back about organized in organic rhythms.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go back and listen to that episode if you missed that.
Caesar Kalinowski:But clearly there was also both organized and organic for people who were on the journey.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, we, they're, they're beginning to believe or they're starting to move from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but they're, they're not saying Jesus is Lord just yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you can see it, you can see it all over 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're, they're beginning to believe they're moving from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, uh, let's talk a little bit about like how that begins to shape your community life at The Table in Philly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:I think of, um, the church takes place, if you will, the people of God.
Gino Curcuruto:I don't mean like a, a building, but the people of God exist in not just one space, but in multiple spaces.
Gino Curcuruto:And the, by a space, I mean like a place where relationship happens.
Gino Curcuruto:And just like my relationship for instance, Go ahead.
Gino Curcuruto:Oh, you want me to tell you?
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah, yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:For instance, in my home on Thursday nights, I gather with people that are leaning into following Jesus.
Gino Curcuruto:So we're not like judging where they are with that, but they're open to relationships that are, talk about.
Gino Curcuruto:The good news of Jesus as being important for their life, and so that, that's a different relationship than the one that I'm developing with a barista at my local coffee shop.
Gino Curcuruto:Just like my relationship with you has been formed and shaped over many years of friendship and going through some pretty rough things that we've had to experience in our life and that forms us, I don't share.
Gino Curcuruto:The things that I've experienced in, in my relationship with you that I do with just anyone else.
Gino Curcuruto:Cuz our relationship is different.
Gino Curcuruto:It occupies a different space.
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:And I think that that relationships need to be accounted for in these different spaces and the church gets to inhabit different spaces to build new relationships.
Gino Curcuruto:It's like this beautiful both and, but if we don't intentionally think about it, we try to flatten and mash together.
Gino Curcuruto:All the relationships into one container and see like, let's get a relationships,
Caesar Kalinowski:all the activities, all the learning, all the discipline, all the everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, we've talked about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know you and I have, I've talked about it probably on the show.
Caesar Kalinowski:We call it the clown car.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the clown car version of being the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're trying to do the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what I mean by the clown cars, have you ever been to a circus?
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe they still do this, but they did when I was a kid at some point.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, do, do, do, do, do, do.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll drive this little dinky car.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe it's a VW bug, maybe it's half the size of that into the center ring and the door opens up and out piles this clown.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're like, how did he ever fit in there?
Caesar Kalinowski:And all of a sudden, two or three more pop out and you're like, that's nuts.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, just wait.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there's like a dozen more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Folded up in there, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and and, and it was all in there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so we call it the clown car because somehow we got to this one size fits all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wherever they're at on their journey.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody gonna get, everything's gonna happen in that hour, hour and 20.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, if you got two services back to back, it's probably closer to an hour, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, we're gonna jam it all into the clown car on Sunday morning.
Caesar Kalinowski:Regardless of where you're at in maturity, age and stage of relationship, belief, understanding, language based, understanding of the Gospel, we're gonna jam it all in there because that's all we can get.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's totally
Gino Curcuruto:impossible.
Gino Curcuruto:I, I see this also in people that kind of move towards like, Hey, let's.
Gino Curcuruto:Let's have meals in our home.
Gino Curcuruto:And then let's also like play some worship music.
Gino Curcuruto:And then I'll also do like the content time where I teach the Bible and it's
Caesar Kalinowski:like, and then we're gonna pray for each other and then we're gonna have time for the kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, wait a minute, clown car on Thursday night now.
Gino Curcuruto:Exactly.
Gino Curcuruto:Like, we're gonna compress the church.
Gino Curcuruto:Just change the location.
Gino Curcuruto:And I'm saying we need to account for relationship and spaces to consider what is helpful for that relationship to move it in in discipleship intentionally.
Gino Curcuruto:And so, If I look at the, the relationship that I develop in a coffee shop as meeting someone that's a stranger, that becomes an acquaintance and maybe a friend, I inhabit that space.
Gino Curcuruto:The content of those conversations is different than Thursday night, and it necessarily should be.
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Otherwise, it's weird.
Caesar Kalinowski:Totally.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's weird.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, do people in the community know what space they're in, either relational or physical space, and how to participate with you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Have you ever had this happen where maybe you're doing a barbecue in the backyard or a cigar theology night or whatever, and a believing friend who's maybe not part of the community?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or brand new to it or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:They show up and in their mind, they're in the clown car Sunday space, or maybe it's their Thursday night.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so right away they gotta jam in all of the spirituality, language, religious stuff, washed in the blood.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, all of that has to happen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, bro, yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're just, uh, Talking about the Phillies and smoking a cigar mostly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes marriage comes into it and then usually the talk about Jesus is, um, you know, and yes, but have you ever had that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Where they don't get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:They don't get what space they're
Gino Curcuruto:in.
Gino Curcuruto:And yes, I've had some seriously awkward situations where people don't get it.
Gino Curcuruto:And it's been, it's been hurtful to, to my friends that aren't following Jesus to feel like, oh, I'm not part of the club.
Gino Curcuruto:You know, the dynamics relationally, if you don't identify what the space is, Is four, I think is the way I say it.
Gino Curcuruto:And what we're, what we're just trying to do, like, and I'm, I'm not trying to say one space is necessarily more important than the other.
Gino Curcuruto:They're all necessary.
Gino Curcuruto:Mm-hmm.
Gino Curcuruto:But you have to know what you're doing here.
Gino Curcuruto:Like
Caesar Kalinowski:who, who are we doing?
Caesar Kalinowski:Who's in the space?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah,
Gino Curcuruto:yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:It's so
Caesar Kalinowski:important.
Caesar Kalinowski:For sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and I, I think that's another thing that gets a little foggy for people and they don't know how to, well, I don't, I know how to do it, so I just won't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll just, yeah, I'll just do the clown car.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll just jam it all into Sunday and hope to God for, I'll try to, I'll try to dumb the language down so everybody can get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So then no one grows to maturity and no one's, you know, it's still the wrong space, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's like, uh, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I, I, in those situations now, this takes a little bit of intentionality, but in some of those spaces and situations, if I know, like, cuz maybe I'm equipping someone, I'm discipling someone and I know they're, maybe they don't quite get the space yet, or they, they don't know these people, or this is gonna be a little different or a little rough or a little, you know, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll pre-meet with them and say, Hey.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, when you're coming over this week, there's gonna be some guys from, you know, downtown man, they have a very different world view brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're gonna, yeah, you're gonna hear some f bombs dropping, you're gonna hear some languages and lots of n words flying and like, you're not, you know, and, uh, and then, so that doesn't mean you can't engage, but I just want you to be aware of what's going on and why they're here and, and they're friends and we're building a relationship and I'd love you to be a friend of theirs.
Caesar Kalinowski:The other thing is then I closed the loop on the back end.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey man, let's talk about what did you notice tonight?
Caesar Kalinowski:What was going on?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like where did you see the conversation?
Caesar Kalinowski:Get hot.
Caesar Kalinowski:Where'd you see it cool off?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like did you notice?
Caesar Kalinowski:When did you notice when you said that?
Caesar Kalinowski:How everybody looked a little puzzled and it got quiet for like 10 minutes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, so that's that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't fear that because you can't say, well, you either intrinsically get it or you can't be in all those spaces.
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:How did you learn?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, Hey, I have embarrassed myself and accidentally said more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Stuff that I shouldn't have in so many ways, so many ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not just the super extra, sorry, Christian stuff that didn't fit, but vice versa and just goofy stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or I'll ask a question that sounds too much how my dad would've asked it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, why are, why are those people doing that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a little icky.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a little icky.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm, I'm sorry.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, I'm in technically those people at that table, but you didn't say it that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, oh no, my kids will really hammer me.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my
Gino Curcuruto:goodness.
Gino Curcuruto:I think that, I was gonna say that, you know, also there are spaces.
Gino Curcuruto:Where it wouldn't be comfortable for my friends that are not yet following Jesus to inhabit those spaces because it just would confuse them.
Gino Curcuruto:Or they're, they're not interested in those things and that's okay.
Gino Curcuruto:You know, that's okay that, that Christians get together and pray or study the Bible, I mean those, or go through the story of God and, and it's not something that my other friends are, are necessarily ready for.
Gino Curcuruto:So, The idea of not creating every space to be flattened out and, and for everyone, I think is an important distinction to make.
Gino Curcuruto:It
Caesar Kalinowski:for sure is.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and kind of back to our overarching theme today, this, this whole making of disciples and seeing people move from unbelief to belief in every area of life and, and coming to the point of Jesus' Lord, and, and walking with him, increasingly, it takes a lot more time, I think, than we maybe thought or wanted to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really does.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think, I think, uh, as Hugh Halter has said that when they build a new relationship in town or new neighbors or new friends who aren't Christians, their, their baseline assumption is three to five years probably before they understand and desire to walk with Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not assuming it's gonna be like in nine weeks when we get done with Alpha or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're assuming really kind of going back to your point of some of the early church in that, in some of the stuff in that book, they're assuming.
Caesar Kalinowski:That it's a long journey and they're, and you're gonna know it by the fruit on the tree.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus said the same thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're gonna start to see different fruit starting to flow out of a belief in their identity that comes, flows right from God himself.
Caesar Kalinowski:But this thing takes a whole lot more time, I think, than we wanna think It does.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, and I wanna underline that cuz I want people to feel like, Hey, the pressure's off.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, this, this easy believism and get the numbers and get a, get a signature on this thing, get a membership thing or get 'em dunked or whatever right away or like, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh man.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just don't see Jesus doing that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, it's crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:We were talking about this on the phone the other day.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't find an example where Jesus baptized anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ouch.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like in three and a half years, never got there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, and so when he said go and baptize them, did he mean like a service or did he mean an immersion in identity?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like he had been clearly doing and then Paul completely underlines throughout all of his discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, And all that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I just want, I don't wanna tell people don't, don't, don't have a baptism service.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not saying that, not saying don't, don't invite people to your church service ever.
Caesar Kalinowski:They, they're not gonna understand, like no relationally know where they're at, but give yourself a break that this, this just takes a long time.
Caesar Kalinowski:And be honest about your own faith walk.
Caesar Kalinowski:You probably did not go from Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, being.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hitler one day to, I was listening to something in the car and the next day I was like, I'm, I'm signed up for church planting class.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm so sold out on Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's been so many movements of unbelief to belief, unbelief to belief, hopefully walking with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Starting to understand and believe.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, This is who God's greatest to be for his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that brings great implication in my marriage or the way I treat people at work or how I see money or fill in the blank, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I just wanna give people like, Hey, the pressure's off.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is gonna take longer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, and, and maybe it reframes even some of the weight we put on certain events or certain things that have to happen.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then, I mean, how many of you have ever said, well, I, you know, pretty quickly led that guy in that Jesus in his heart prayer, but then, He came to church a couple Sundays, and then it was like a month, and then it was like six months and now I can't get the guy to answer my text.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or I've had friends where it's kind of, it went a little better than that.
Caesar Kalinowski:They actually agreed to be baptized and, but then after that, like they're so far from God in the church and they just never dug into their identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:They never dug further into community and the Gospel together and all that, and that doesn't mean they, they shouldn't have been or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:But when we understand that the Gospel is not about, we save people and that's the mission, that's, you know, that we Disciple people.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then we get to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I that's gonna take long.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me ask you this as I maybe start to pull this, uh, train into the station just a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, gimme a story from maybe your own life and community of someone who perhaps took years to come to faith and really count themselves to Disciple growing maturity and, and now they're helping to lead others to walk on the ways of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anybody come to mind?
Caesar Kalinowski:I know you've got a ton.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've talked about 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, there's
Gino Curcuruto:a, there's a number of stories.
Gino Curcuruto:I mean, I, I, I appreciate you making this space to say, you know, consider your own walk, because I feel like that's my story.
Gino Curcuruto:I won't say that, that story.
Gino Curcuruto:I'll, I'll share someone else, uh, that I've, that I've, um, experienced this with.
Gino Curcuruto:I have a friend, we can call him Bob, and when I met him, he was, um, in recovery and in just a, in a rough spot.
Gino Curcuruto:And he had had kind of.
Gino Curcuruto:Fallen back into drugs multiple times and his family had kind of fallen apart.
Gino Curcuruto:Um, we, we met through just shared relationships in the neighborhood.
Gino Curcuruto:Some guys that were in recovery, they wanted to look at the 12 steps and how it related to the scriptures.
Gino Curcuruto:It was kind of this crazy story that happened to me through my barber.
Gino Curcuruto:Mm-hmm.
Gino Curcuruto:And so we, we, we sp spent this time going through the, these conversations and really that was just a vehicle to build relationship.
Gino Curcuruto:And then Bob like started hanging out with me at other times and with my family and we, he'd come to our brunch church occasionally and then he kinda came to faith.
Gino Curcuruto:He would profess it, you know, after a year or more.
Gino Curcuruto:And all that really was, was in his mind is that he was making a decision to change some things.
Gino Curcuruto:But I don't know that it fully like, Affected everything, but we were just with him cuz we were, you know?
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:And then there was this experience that happened in community once he was offended by something that happened and.
Gino Curcuruto:He, um, we went to the gym together and he yelled at me in the gym in front of every, like un, just with his words, undressed me completely, because he was offended.
Gino Curcuruto:And I was thinking like, someone who's following Jesus, you know, maybe that's not the best look right, but, but what I, what I'm getting at is this was a long time together, multiple years.
Gino Curcuruto:And even him saying like, I prayed the prayer or whatever, you know, that was in a book that he had or something, but it required.
Gino Curcuruto:He had to have that conflict and then he had to experience conviction and we, we were reconciled.
Gino Curcuruto:We got together and he was like, I don't know what came over me.
Gino Curcuruto:And I feel like, you know, there's not like, Points that actually mark out when conversion happens.
Gino Curcuruto:In my mind, it's just an ongoing process.
Gino Curcuruto:I know nobody
Caesar Kalinowski:can get down with that, but I I'm with you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like which part got converted, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Was it, was it the year before when he said, I am living my life for Jesus?
Gino Curcuruto:Or was it after he repented for verbally assaulting me in a public place and realizing he had conviction?
Gino Curcuruto:You know, I don't know.
Gino Curcuruto:My point is, Being together, being in community and what?
Gino Curcuruto:And being patient and saying, and I love you and I wanna see this in your life.
Gino Curcuruto:And he started getting a vision for what it would look like to go back into his relationships with people that were in addiction or coming out of addiction and starting a community around them.
Gino Curcuruto:And he kind, he did that, he's done that.
Gino Curcuruto:He's continued, that he's kind of like, Spread the good news of his identity in Jesus after a couple of years.
Gino Curcuruto:He actually moved out of the city, um, recently and is continuing that work of just through AA and NA, developing like these followers of Jesus being explicit about who he follows and why.
Gino Curcuruto:And it was a long process though.
Gino Curcuruto:You see that now and you're like, man, that's awesome, but if you knew the patience and the conflict and everything.
Gino Curcuruto:It's, it's part of the process.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how many people have been in his life and how many different saints.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:With different gifts and experiences and unbelief, belief of movements of their own and letting their redemption show how many different people did God use in his life?
Caesar Kalinowski:In Bob's life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And and is using in his life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And now he's using Bob in a whole bunch of other people's life.
Caesar Kalinowski:But Bob ain't doing it alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's pulling you guys into it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So And on it goes.
Gino Curcuruto:Exactly.
Gino Curcuruto:It's so good, so good to be a part of that.
Gino Curcuruto:But you have to, I mean, the last thing that I would say is that you have to have this vision for patients.
Gino Curcuruto:And, and that you don't see everything.
Gino Curcuruto:I feel like Jesus is always saying that in the gospels, you see, but you don't see clearly, and it's always like fine tuning our vision that what we think is is happening.
Gino Curcuruto:There's so much more that's happening, and what we get to see over time is worth waiting for.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I think if anybody wanted proof of that in scripture and in Jesus life, just go do a little timeline of Jesus relationship with Peter.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the highs and lows of that trajectory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my goodness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it here?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it then?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it here when he got converted?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it Then when did he really wait?
Caesar Kalinowski:Denial.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hold on.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Craziness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Then it all got straightened out and he was fine.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait, well, let's jump way ahead and Jerusalem.
Caesar Kalinowski:30 years later, Paul's coming back going, Hey Peter.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, nobody needs that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just Jesus remember, like, I mean, right, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a long journey,
Gino Curcuruto:man.
Gino Curcuruto:It is.
Gino Curcuruto:It is, it is.
Gino Curcuruto:And if we just flatten his story and just go with the end, we're like, wow, what a, what a saint and a martyr.
Gino Curcuruto:And yes, that's true, but you know, be there for the whole journey.
Gino Curcuruto:It's, it's good.
Gino Curcuruto:Just go do
Caesar Kalinowski:one little study on that guys ups and downs, and you'll realize Whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and you know, I, I said, I think you'll see yourself in the mirror too.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thank you, Jesus, for your patience and love and care, and that you now pour your grace out.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that patience through others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we tend to think, you know, how's God doing all this?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like God's gonna give you grace, brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's gonna provide for your needs.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's gonna speak.
Caesar Kalinowski:How does he do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Through humans.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, the mystery revealed by his spirit indwelling you and me and the rest of the body of Christ, the brothers and sisters, the saints.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how grace happens.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how patience is learned.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how, uh, disagreements and hollering at somebody who you love in the gym and freaking out that that's, that's how that got showed.
Caesar Kalinowski:He, he experienced mercy and grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:From you.
Caesar Kalinowski:It didn't just show up in a box from Amazon, like after he hollered at you that day.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, thanks God, thanks for that Amazon delivery.
Caesar Kalinowski:Was this prime it take?
Caesar Kalinowski:It took a while.
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Thanks for saying that.
Gino Curcuruto:It's true.
Gino Curcuruto:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:I feel like that's, I.
Gino Curcuruto:I can say that, yes.
Gino Curcuruto:You know, going back to him in that, in that one instance it was like, I'd rather just dismiss him like this.
Gino Curcuruto:Let's just call this a failed discipleship experiment because that was painful.
Gino Curcuruto:But the spirit of God convicts you to say like, I gotta pursue him.
Gino Curcuruto:Cuz I ultimately, I do love him.
Gino Curcuruto:And this is part of the process.
Gino Curcuruto:I've seen the story of Peter.
Gino Curcuruto:I know it's similar in my life and we don't know what the outcome is, but we know the end is really good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's the journey is the goal.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't, yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know anybody who's arrived, have you, bro?
Gino Curcuruto:No.
Gino Curcuruto:Not even close, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Come, come hang out with Caesar and team K.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one's like accusing me of being exactly like Jesus just yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what a cool journey, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:What a cool journey to be on with family, with community in, in the spirit guide and the whole thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ah, there's no other life.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's, it's certainly a better, better deal than, uh, sitting through the clown car once a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Gino Curcuruto:Amen to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, man, I'm gonna let you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks so much for your wisdom and your heart and all this, and your example, and your patience in my life, but also in so many people's lives that God's using you, you and Jill there, and, and the family.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I love your brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:We see you soon,
Gino Curcuruto:man.
Gino Curcuruto:Thanks.
Gino Curcuruto:Love you too.
Gino Curcuruto:Love you too.
Gino Curcuruto:It's great to be with you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Bye.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:As always, I wanna leave you with the big three takeaways from today's topic.
Caesar Kalinowski:If nothing else, you don't wanna miss these, and I'll be happy to send you all of this written out in a printable PDF for free.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you want to go to uh, everyday Disciple dot com slash big three b i G three, I'll be glad.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll send them to you right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the reason we do that is because these kind of.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really summarize some of the big points of the podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:We do it every week and, uh, these make great talking points if you're sharing this with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's the big three for this week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number one, discipleship is a process and lifestyle that requires patience and patient persistence and intentionality too.
Caesar Kalinowski:The leaders of the early church knew this and they lived with an expectation that they were giving their lives to those they discipled.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you willing to give your life to developing disciples who make more disciples of Jesus?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or will the pull of running church programs and hoping for immediate results and growth distract you from that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm, something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about number two, your community of faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your church or Missional.
Caesar Kalinowski:Community is meant to be an ongoing immersion into your true Gospel identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your baptism kicks off this lifestyle of being a Disciple of Jesus and a Disciple maker with a public proclamation of this reality.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then the ongoing life together is a relational immersion, deeper and deeper into living out of your true God-given identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a big idea and, and it's one that both Gino and I are convinced of.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really what discipleship is all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's this ongoing immersion into our identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we more increasingly are living out of that, showing the world with God's life.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, filling the world with his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:And number three, as more and more believers and church leaders are initiating smaller home churches or micro churches, be careful that you don't accidentally end up recreating just a mini church service.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, discipleship that is a lifestyle is not a small Sunday gathering in your home once a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:With all the normal activities that we do in our church services crammed into our living rooms for about an hour or so.
Caesar Kalinowski:Beware of the jam-packed clown car of churchy stuff packed into your home, disguising itself as a true relational Missional Disciple making community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so beware of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks again to my buddy Gino for sharing his thoughts and experience with all of us today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know this gives us a lot to be thinking and praying about.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll tell you what, how about this?
Caesar Kalinowski:Would you share this conversation with other leaders in your church or Missional, Community, maybe your elders even.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll bet it'll stir up the waters and could lead to some really great discussions and changes in how you're making disciples together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, that's it for today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hope you'll join me next week.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna continue to learn how the Gospel speaks into all of normal life and is foundational to making discipleship and mission a lifestyle instead of a program of the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
