Cassie Moore is a Director of Christian Education and a published author. Her area of expertise is youth and young adults and helping churches and other organizations love and serve them effectively. Pastor Matt Popovits sits down with Cassie to discuss Generation Z and what sets them apart from their predecessors. Specifically, Cassie will give us insights into the unique struggles of 15 - 25 year olds and how they are navigating the trauma of this global pandemic.

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

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To engaging truth. I'm your host, Matt Popovits. And with me on the program today is Cassie Moore. She's an author, she's a speaker, and she's a direct of Christian education at St. Mark Houston, Cassie, welcome to the program.

Thanks for having me glad to be here.

It's great to have you with us now, for those who are listening, who have no idea what a director of Christian education is, and there might be a couple of them. Uh, tell us what, tell us all about that role.

Sure. Um, so a, it's an actual college degree in our Lutheran church. Uh, it's basically overseeing lifespan ministry. So cradle the grave. Uh, I get to do a little bit of everything. So I do on a regular basis. I do teaching, I do speaking. I do event planning. I do education. Um, I do writing curriculum, so it's a lot, a lot of good stuff.

So sounds a, you do a little bit of everything.

I'm a Jack of all trades.

Well in full disclosure, uh, I'm, I'm the senior pastor at St. Mark Houston and Cassie is on my team. And I've invited around the show today because not only is she a great DCE, not only does she do a little bit of everything at our church, but she's, she's also, uh, one of the best thinkers that I've ever met when it comes to understanding the younger generation in particular. What I wanna talk about today is, is generation Z. Now, again, some of our listeners might not know what we mean when we say gen Z. So, so Cassie Phyllis in.

And so gen Z tell us some of the characteristics about them. What, what do we know about, about this generation? Are they, are they just like everybody who's come before nothing different.

They are not. And you know, you, you get that funny mix. Every generation is a little bit different than the generation before them. Um, so gen Z, they, they tend to be pretty career focused and pretty future focused. Um, interestingly this generation family, like having a family, having kids getting married, it's on the, the bottom of their list of priority. Um, so it's, it's a different shift. I think growing up as, as younger kids in the recession, watching their parents go through a job loss and some insecurity, it has, it has forged them to a generation. They care more about security, um, and really controlling their future. But they're the first generation of kids that have just been immersed in technology since they were born. So they're very tech savvy, they're very social on online. Um, and they tend to be really connected, but isolated at the same time. So just some of the overall traits that we see with them. Um, they're, they're an interesting generation for sure.

So what would you say are some of the strengths of this generation?

They have a lot of strengths. I think, um, the first thing that comes to mind, I, I think they're very empathetic. Um, it tends to be in generation. They're really inclusive. They're really into thinking broader than themselves. And part of that comes from that global scale that they lived on. So they, they at any point can find news from anywhere in the world and connect with anybody from all over the world. So they tend to be a lot more global in their thinking. Um, with that they, they tend to be more open-minded they tend to be, um, sort of long term thinkers. They're, they're usually thinking about what is the implication, not just for me, but for the people around me, for my planet, for, for my friends that don't even agree with these things that I care about. Um, so I think there's a great strength there.

I think they're a, a largely creative and caring generation. Um, I've heard a lot of students in this category, tell me we're the generation, we're the, we're the grateful generation, or at least the pandemic has made us a little bit more grateful as a generation. So, um, I think they have a lot of, they have a lot of strength there. They definitely know tech. They definitely build on that knowledge of tech that they have. Um, but they, uh, they have a lot of shortcomings as well. Um, and you know, if you've got teenagers, I, I know you have a teenager, um, you know, that they have their unique set of challenges too.

Well, well, let's talk about that. You know, uh, I, I do have a teenager. I have a 15 year old daughter and she's like the coolest kid I've ever met in my life, but she's very different from me. And I, uh, very, very different from me when I was a 15 year old and you know, her mother and I, we, we met when we were about her age, which is frightening to think of. So, so I know me at 15, I know her mother at 15. Now I know my daughter, our daughter at 15 and, and her mother and I were very different than she is now. It seems like she's almost the equivalent of like what we were at like 20, like the things that she's wrestling with, the concerns that she has seem much more, uh, mature for her age than, than the things I wrestled with at, at my age. Do, do you find that that gen Z is having to deal with heavier, um, weightier, uh, more mature things at this age and stage of their life than previous generations had to?

I absolutely. I think childhood has, it has matured. These kids it's matured beyond what you know, and I'm not that old, but I'm, I look at my childhood to, and I think like the issues that they talk about and at such a young age, um, I think back to this last year, I, I did a lot of teaching in a middle school and I had out of a group of about 50 kids. I had eight middle school kids tell, tell me I have suicidal feelings. That's a high percentage in a group of about 50 kids, but statistically that's, that's pretty much where they are as a generation. So suicide rates, depression rate, anxiety rates, these have all just gone through the roof with this generation. And if we think about why I think are a lot of factors, but, um, a big one is, is social media.

You know, they're online, they're looking at themselves all, all the time. They're, they're engaged online on a regular basis. Um, there's a lot of, lot of anxiety that comes with that. There's a lot of looking at yourself and a lot of looking at other people and comparing your life to somebody else. And there's this content is the root of a lot of issues. I think that we have, and there's, there's also this pressure to succeed and to do well and to think about your future. And I've gotta have a successful, successful career in high school because it's gonna lead to college and college is gonna lead to a great job and I have to own a house by the time I'm 30. Um, so there's just a lot of pressure in this generation. Um, I think one of the, one of the huge differences I've seen working full time with students almost almost every day for the last 12 years.

Um, there's a real attitude of, I know more than, than the adults around me from gen B, which on the one hand I, I do, I do respect their, um, their, their higher level thinking to think, like, I know a lot about this and I'm gonna tell you my opinion. Um, I actually, I respect that, you know, I'm, I'm not somebody that I don't believe that you should just go along with the flow and not use your brain. Um, what I have seen a big difference is, is kids now will, they will openly to talk back to their teachers, talk back to their coaches, um, talk back to their pastors. It's a, it's been a big shift in attitude that even five or six years ago, I was not seeing the same level of that as I see now.

So, so where do you think that comes from that, that, that confidence to, to say, I, I, I know as much, if not better than the people who are older than me and, and I can push back on the people who are above me, where do you think that comes from? Did, did the older generation create that in them? Did we, did we nurture that? What do you

Think in, in some ways we, we did nurture that we've made these kids really the, the center of our, our universe. And in a lot of ways, you know, we talk about helicopter parents, um, when you're, when you're always involved and always telling your child, like you are the center of everything, and I'm, I'm gonna stop conversation and listen to whatever you wanna interrupt with. Um, we're feeding these attitudes that, that, especially when we get into the upper middle school, high school, college years, kids just assume that the world revolves around them. And that's the natural part of child development. But if we don't pull kids out of that intentionally, we end up with these, these kids that just think everything is about them and their opinion matters more than anything else. Um, you know, there, there's a very real side that kids now can get information anywhere. Um, they, they don't need adults to get information. They can go online and find information. They can go on their phone, find something at the drop of a hat, but, um, there's, it's created sort of this artificial ego, I think that we're seeing in kids now. Hmm.

So, so let's say you've, you've got a 15 year old or, or, or someone, uh, in your life who is who's in this generation, they're part of gen Z. And, and given, given all that, you've shared about some of their strengths and some of their struggles. Um, but you really, really want to connect with them. You wanna speak to their heart. Um, if this, this is your grandchild or your niece, or your nephew, or someone in your youth group group, or, or in my case, your own kid, if you really wanna speak to their heart, knowing what you know about them, what's, what's a way to really be heard by them and impactful for them.

Yeah, that, that is a great question. And I wish more people asked that question. Cause to me it's pretty simple. Um, it's, it's start with really respecting what you, what they have to say. And I would say even simpler than that, just ask them questions. This, this is a generation that they have so much they wanna share, and they're shouting into the Abys of all this noise in the world around them. So often that as an adult, if you can just tap into that simple human have conversation and to have real authentic relationships, that is a really, really easy inroad with, with this generation. Um, so things like, you know, Hey, tell me, tell me how you really feel about this. Tell me how you feel about politics. Tell me how you feel about, you know, this, this issue we're seeing in the world. Tell me about wildfires.

Well, how is, you know, what does your generation think about that? Um, just asking questions and then listening with an open mind. I think as adults we're, we can be quick to jump in with our own stories. And if we keep the focus on this generation on gen Z on asking them questions, um, asking how they feel about it, they open up very quickly. Um, they have a lot to share and, and they like to, I think listening with respect being open, um, being open-minded. But I think also, um, having things that you can, you can find shared passions and discuss them together and even do them together. That's another huge inroad with, with gen Z.

So, so value their input, ask questions, and then find a shared area of, of passion and interest I'm. I'm taking, I'm taking notes from my own parenting here as a father of a member of this generation of this generation. Hey, just a quick reminder that, uh, that you're listening to engaging truth. Uh, I'm your host, Matt Papa. Biton with me today is Cassie Moore. She's an author speaker and director of Christian education in Houston, Texas. And we're talking about gen Z, if you like episode, and you want more content like this, uh, you can head to E L M houston.org. You can find an archive archive of past episodes. And if you wanna support this ministry, you can find out information there about how you can do that. This is a nonprofit 5 0 1 C three ministry, meaning we are 100% supported by our listeners who make programs like this possible. So if you want more info on how you can support us head to E L M houston.org. So Cassie, what are some of the things that, that people misunderstand about gen Z or just, just younger generations? Um, uh, in, in general. Um, so, so I'm a member of, uh, of, I would say I'm, I'm more and gen member of gen X than, than a millennial I'm right on the right on the, the, uh, dividing line there. What are some of the things like that old men like me misunderstand about the young kids

Misunderstand? Um, that's a personal question, I think, but I think in general, um, I think there's, there's a lot misunderstood about the ego and about the, um, the driving passions of this generation. I think to keep in mind that they're, they're pretty globally minded. That's a big one. Um, and I think to understand how they've been raised, you know, this is a generation that's completely different than any other, because they have been, they have been connected since birth. You know, most of the kids I deal with, they have all of their baby pictures have been on Facebook since, since they were infants. Um, which is kind of crazy to think about, cuz I think about Facebook and thank God. I didn't even use it till college cuz we didn't have it till then. But most of these kids, their entire life has been online. So there's, there's a little bit of, of a, a jaded, um, read that I get from this generation that they're a little bit distrustful of, of putting too much out there.

Um, it's interesting. You look at the, the different waves, I'm a millennial. So my generation for instance, is on Twitter and on, on Instagram all the time. But if you look at the kids that are in gen Z, they're very careful about what they put on Instagram. Um, they're really into Snapchat because it's, it's much more informal I think, but they think about they go on Instagram, but they do not often post on Instagram. Um, they're very cautious. They grew up in this era of, you know, stranger danger online. Um, and it's really, it's shaped them quite a bit, but yeah, they just, they have different habits. Um, they're different, different doesn't mean bad. It just means we have to understand them. They're they're different culture.

Yeah. You know, you make a great point in something that really hadn't really crossed my mind. You know, they've grown up in a world where every moment of their life has been documented and shared with the world and they have easy access to memories, video picture of, of every milestone. Like if I wanna see baby pictures, like my baby pictures, I have to like reach out to my mom who lives in another state. She's gotta pull out a book and find them and like, you know, show them to me that that's a fundamentally different experience than having everything documented. Right. And that can't not shape you to always have a camera, a lens on you and have every moment of your life documented that just what have, has to have a profound effect on you. Um

Oh absolutely.

Cassie, you know, so, so, so you, ultimately, you work in, and for the, the church, the Christian Church, you, you, you you've gotten to know these young people and you serve these young people in the context of sharing the, the hope and the message of Jesus, this with them. And so with, with that in mind, I, I have a question for you. Like what's, what's the, what's the gospel message to a 14, 15, 16 year old kid today. Like what's the, what's the proclamation of who Jesus is and how much loves them that, that they need to hear. Because the reason I ask is because, you know, as a, as a preacher and communicator of the gospel, you know, I, I believe that you have to contextualize it to the person you're speaking to because the beauty of the message of Jesus is that it is big enough to speak to the different issues and struggles of any particular person, any particular moment and bring peace and hope to those things. And so I think there's a way to speak to gen Z, speak the gospel to gen Z in a way that, that they need to hear it. That might be different from the way their parents needed to hear it. So, so what's the gospel to a member of gen Z.

I, I love the fact that you even asked this question because it, it reveals, um, it reveals your heart as somebody that, that struggles with that and really thinks through how do I, how do I shape and craft that, that timeless message of, of what Jesus has done for us, but how do I bring that to, to ears maybe have not heard it before, um, or are not hearing it not receiving it in the same way. I, what comes to mind? I think this is a generation. They are, they are very eager to understand who they are and what their place is in the world. And it's a big world. Um, I think it's a, it's a basic human need to want to know who am I and what is my purpose? And if we can speak to that as, um, as adults who care about them to say, who are you, your, your child of God, and he's gifted you with things that make you unique and special and, and he wants you, your purpose is to, to use those gifts to his glory, right?

And to share that love and that forgiveness and that message of how with, with other people around you, no matter what your skillset is, you know, you may be tech savvy, you may be a reader. You may be a writer. You may be an artist. Um, this is a generation. They just, they crave personal attention at a really deep level. Everything about them has been performance. And what can I do? What do I look like? How many followers do I have? How many likes did my post get? How many Snapchat streaks do I have going? Um, it's a very competitive world to strip that away. And to say, you are loved just as you are imperfections and flaws and everything you are loved by, by your savior, that person who created you with purpose. That's a very powerful message. And I think too, that message of the piece that comes with having a relationship with Christ. Um, we have a, a generation of kids that I, I see FOMO, right? This fear of missing out I am, I enough, I, I doing the right things. Am I hanging with the right people? Am I, am I doing enough online? Cuz everybody else has this picture, perfect life. My life isn't really that great, but it looks like everybody else is having more fun to have that message of, of peace and contentedness. That's a pretty powerful message for this generation too.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I, I think you're, you're spot on that, that there is an intense amount of, of pressure on young people today that, that we talked about this earlier, that older generation, certainly my generation, I don't think I felt and pressure leads to anxiety. And, and so I think the proclamation of the gospel to a younger person has to, in some way, address the anxiety that they feel, um, ad address the, the absence of peace that they have. Um, and so, uh, and so Jesus' message that, that, uh, I was having a conversation with a, a colleague earlier this morning about Jesus addressing, um, the anxieties of this world and saying, we have O I have overcome the world in this world. You will have trouble 15 year old , but this world that overcomes you has been overcome by me. Mm-hmm and, and, and try to speak some peace into them because the pressures are, are incredible upon them. They, they really, really are. So, so Cassie, um, for parents or, um, grandparents and anybody, who's a young person in their life and, and they want to continue to understand them better and serve them better. Um, are there any resources that you could, you could point us to, or suggest that we, that we take in so that we can have a better grasp of, of who God's put in our life and how we can love 'em? Well,

Yeah, there's some great resources. Um, one of my favorite ones is Dr. Tim Elmore has been, he's been on the leading edge of studying gen Z for, for probably more than a decade now. Um, so growing leaders, uh, dot com is his website. It's got a great, I, I use it a lot as a, a frame of reference. Um, got a great daily blog that you can sign up for. Um, youth eSource is another youth esource.com is another great resource for just some free practical, um, Christian based resources to understand this generation. Um, there's some great podcasts out there, but, um, ultimately I would encourage you to just get to know somebody in this age range. Um, it's amazing the kids that have have in the midst of this, uh, the issues we've had, right. A pandemic lately, the, the issue that, um, we've had with kids still working and still showing up to do things, um, adults that have just totally overlooked them or been rude to them. I think it's just as easy as stopping and just talking to kids in this age range and opening your own eyes to see what they're struggling with and what kind of expression they have on their face is they're bagging your groceries. Um, there's some things to just pray for this generation. They need hope and they need some encouragement and ultimately they need Jesus too. So we have to be mindful of that.

Yeah. I think just a little curiosity goes a long way about the young people that God has put in your life. Um, be, be, be curious about who they are and the things they like. And, you know, my sense, I could be wrong about this, but my sense is that a young person who finds an adult who genuinely is interested in who they are and wants to know why they say the things they say and, and what matters to them that, that, that, that ultimately comes across hopefully is love, uh, that, that interest and that curiosity. And so probably maybe the best way you just said it, maybe one of the best ways to learn is some of those resources you mentioned, but also just ask some questions of the young people around you. Um, which reminds me, I need to go home and start asking my daughter some more things . So, so Cassie, if, if people want to, to, uh, um, learn more about you and the work that you do, um, where, where can I go? Where can I find some of the work that you've done?

Yeah. Um, so I've, I've worked on two, two books and I've done a lot of, uh, articles. So I have a, a youth ministry column@youthesource.com. So it's called inside the team mind, um, under Kathy Moore. So I have about 85 articles that I've published there over the years. Um, I also have a, my own book, so authentic youth ministry, um, if that's available on Amazon and, uh, a couple other websites and then, uh, connected for life is a collaborative book that I worked on a couple years ago. So, um, also available online, um, on Amazon. Um, but you can also get in my site, which is Kathy more.com. So check me out there. Um, but yeah, I'd love to connect. I, I love working with young people and their parents and coaches and grandparents. So, um, the special role to be able to work with young people and to, to coach those who do so don't give up, we need you

For, so Cassie, we've got about one minute left in today's program. And with that one minute that's left. Um, can you play a little bit of cultural, um, interpreter for us? What, what's one thing that gen Z likes to say or likes to do that makes no sense to someone who's older, that you could help us understand? Is there, is there a piece of lingo that they use that is just crazy to us? You can maybe interpret for us,

You know, one of the fun things that I, I think they say a lot is like, um, mood, like, oh, this is like, this is a mood. And it's, uh, if you can drop that into conversation, just like, oh, this is, you know, I, I relate to this mood. I, I totally I'm on board. I feel the same way. That's one of the things that I say at my age now, and I'm not that old, but I say that and kids are like, oh my gosh, no, don't say that , I know it's effective. Right. If they tell you don't do it, you know,

You know, you you've hit something that they actually care about and they don't want you to ruin it for 'em. Yes, exactly. Well, man, I'm gonna drop mood in all of my upcoming conversations with the young people in my life. Kathy Moore. Thank you so much for being a guest on engaging truth. Thank you. Have a great one. And thank you for listening in. You can join us right here next time, next week on engaging truth.

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time, to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office Fox 5 6 8, Cypress Texas 7 7 4 1 0. Or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical live ministries. Thank you.