Are you in control of your systems, or are your systems controlling you?

In this episode of "The Business You Really Want," hosts Gwen Bortner and Tonya Kubo invite you into the world of systems and how the behaviors within your business shape the results you see. Whether you're running a solo operation or managing a growing team, understanding and optimizing your systems can lead to more efficiency, less stress, and greater success.

Here’s what you can expect in this episode:

• 2:38 - Systems are actually just behaviors
• 6:32 - Learn your behaviors by consciously observing them
• 10:00 - How to document your systems once you know they work
• 12:35 - How to identify the behaviors that make up your systems.
• 17:28 - Why being too flexible might be sabotaging your business success
• 20:28 - Creating intentional systems that align with your goals and values
• 22:58 - The time it takes to standardize behaviors into effective systems
• 27:54 - Free yourself by standardizing behaviors for recurring decisions

Key Takeaways:

• Systems are not software: Understand that systems are the consistent behaviors and processes that happen in your business every day.
• Observe your behaviors: Start noticing the automatic decisions you make daily; these are your true systems.
• Document only when necessary: Don’t waste time writing down processes until you know they are effective and repeatable.
• Balance flexibility with structure: Too much flexibility can lead to chaos; find the right balance to keep things running smoothly.
• Leverage outside perspectives: Sometimes, you need an external observer to point out unconscious behaviors that could be impacting your success.

Ready to optimize your business systems? Try this:

1. Start by observing: Take a week to note down every step you take in completing your daily tasks. What patterns do you see?
2. Ask why: For every action, ask yourself why you are doing it that way. Is there a better or more efficient way? 
3. Streamline your processes: Identify areas where you can reduce steps or make things more straightforward.
4. Get feedback: Consider working with a coach or a trusted colleague to gain insights into your habits and how they could be improved.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review!

Also, be sure to check out Episode 8, where we explore solving the right problems in the right order.

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Why waste time

documenting something that

2

we're going to revise, improve?

3

Remove, delete, you know,

whatever, whatever it is.

4

And so documentation of systems is useful

once you know you really have a useful,

5

effective, proper, um, whatever term you

want to put around it, system in place.

6

But people assume that by documenting

it, they now have a system.

7

Nope, they had a system long

before they put any word to paper.

8

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Are you feeling

overwhelmed, stuck, or uncertain about

9

how to grow your business without

sacrificing what really matters most?

10

Welcome to The Business You Really

Want, the show for women ready to build

11

a sustainable, fully aligned business.

12

Aligned with what, you ask?

13

You.

14

Your values.

15

Your life.

16

Seriously.

17

It is possible.

18

I'm Tonya Kubo, and along with

business advisor extraordinaire Gwynn

19

Bortner, we're here to show you how.

20

Do you have systems in your business

or do your systems have you?

21

If you're me, it's more

the latter than the former.

22

Gwen is the queen of systems, by the

way, just in case you didn't know that.

23

Uh, so in this episode, I think

it's really important to talk about

24

identifying and optimizing the

behaviors that shape your business.

25

I'm Tanya Kubo.

26

Uh, I am here with

27

operations expert extraordinaire.

28

I love this as, as the lead host

here, I get to say all sorts of

29

ridiculous things about Gwen and she

can't stop me cause we're recording.

30

As we are here,

31

Gwen, at the end of our

introductory gears series, right?

32

Which we're exploring the five key

operational functions that make

33

up the engine of any business.

34

We have come to the last and

most certainly not least.

35

We have talked about goals.

36

We've talked about effectiveness,

we've talked about accounting, last

37

episode we talked about resources,

and today we're talking about what

38

I believe is the most misunderstood

business function, which is systems.

39

Now Gwen, you don't know this, but several

weeks back, You gave me a definition of

40

systems that absolutely blew my mind.

41

So much so, I scrawled, MUST

BLOG THIS, in my notebook.

42

Okay?

43

This is how you know I

mean business, right?

44

It's like, scrawled, that's several

pages back, cause that was weeks ago.

45

It blew my mind because I am one

of those people who has spent years

46

saying, I gotta work on my systems.

47

I need better systems.

48

I don't have any systems.

49

I hired people.

50

The people told me I didn't have systems

too, so it's not like I was the only

51

person who thought this, but when you

said systems are actually behaviors, I

52

went, Oh, now that you mentioned it, maybe

I do have systems and I don't like them

53

because I don't like the behaviors I have.

54

So start us off there.

55

Explain to me how I have systems

if I don't know that they're there.

56

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Everybody

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has systems.

58

There, there is, there is nothing

that happens without a system.

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Now, you may not have consistent systems.

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You may not have documented systems.

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You may not have systems that are

producing the results that you want.

62

Those are very, very

different kinds of things.

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But systems are happening all the time,

everywhere, around everything, all.

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So, when someone says I don't have

any systems, that is not true.

65

They have systems.

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They may not have documented systems, they

may not be consistent systems, they may

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not be the systems that they want, because

a system is just a way you do something.

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It is a behavior.

69

The way you answer the phone, or

don't answer the phone, is a system.

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like, you know, your

personal thing, you know.

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By the way, this can be used for

phone calls for those who don't know.

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Um.

73

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Not by me, Gwen.

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Not by me.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: know, on very

rare occasions, only under duress.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: I will slack you

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and

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you will call me

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: system, right?

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All of that's a system, it's a behavior.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: So if systems

are behaviors then, and I don't

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think I have systems because

I don't know their behaviors.

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Let me see how much more circular

logic I can throw into this.

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How do I know my behaviors?

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How do I figure that out?

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: So, that is an observation

activity, and this is why most people

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don't think they have systems, is

it's really hard to observe ourselves.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Okay.

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Mm

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: I use the phrase,

uh, you know, you can't read the

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label from the inside of the jar.

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That's kind of what the situation is.

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It's hard to observe yourself.

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If you're doing it with some level of

consciousness, you actually can to say,

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so what do I do when, you know, I'm going

to keep picking like on the phone, right?

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The phone rings.

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What do you do?

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There is a system that we all have.

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We don't, it's so automatic.

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We don't even think about it as a system,

but I know when the phone rings, the

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first thing I do and look as I see, is

it a number that my phone recognizes?

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Yay, caller ID.

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Gosh, you know, we're old enough

to have not had caller ID.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: I know!

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Remember when the phone

rang and it was a mystery?

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: it was a mystery.

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It was a total mystery.

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So the first thing I looked is,

is it anybody I know, right?

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That's part of my

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm

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hmm.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: if it's someone I know,

then I evaluate, um, can I answer it now?

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Or should I answer it now based

on anything else that's going on?

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Like if you and I are recording

like right now and the phone rang,

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um, I'd be upset that I haven't

turned it silent, which I haven't.

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Um,

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but I would look and see is, is it

one of only a person or two that

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I might answer the phone because

it's actually potentially urgent

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right now, I'm not expecting

anybody to have any urgent issues.

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So I wouldn't

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm hmm.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: in Necall.

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That's part of my system right now.

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Now, if it was, we weren't recording,

maybe you and I were just chatting,

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um, depending on who it was, I

would say, Hey, this is so and so.

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Let me, let me find out

if this is important.

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Um, other people would be

like, yeah, no, they can wait.

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And I would send them

off to voicemail, right?

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But I, if it was a number I

didn't recognize, I'd immediately

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send it off to voicemail.

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All of that's a system.

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Now, most people don't think about

it that consciously that they're

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just doing those things, right?

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This is just, but that's why

it's also a behavior, right?

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That's your behavior of

how you answer the phone.

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But that.

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Behavior is in fact the system.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Okay.

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So, I know I can find out my

behaviors by observing them.

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We tend to be terrible at that,

so I can probably do, like,

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a task study or a time study.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: Yeah, and part of

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: to do it

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: part of it's being

aware, like, I hadn't prepped that whole

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conversation that we just had, um, but

because I'm good at observing, I was able

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to say, oh yeah, so what would happen?

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Well, if the phone rang right

now, there, here are the first

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two questions my mind would do.

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And, and if you start paying

attention, you can say, oh yeah, I

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know that if a number that doesn't

recognize come up, I always put,

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you know, send it to voicemail.

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I know, you know, you, you can start

paying attention to your own things and

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saying, Oh yeah, what am I doing here?

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Why am I doing that?

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And that's really the question.

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Like, Why am I making this choice?

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Why am I making this decision?

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Um, what, what is the trigger for

the decision or why am I doing it?

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Right?

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I'm not going to answer the phone.

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The phone doesn't ring.

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That's the first thing.

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It

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: That's a good point.

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Okay, so the phone ringing is the trigger.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: Yeah.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: So then, how do I know,

so okay, so I've observed my behaviors.

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How do I know when it's

time to document them?

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Because one thing that you and me have

talked about a lot of times is, a lot

170

of times people think system equals

SOP, or Standard Operating Procedure,

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when in reality, The SOP is just

cementing or standardizing the behaviors

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that we've been doing all along.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: So,

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so often when people First talk to

me about potentially working with me.

175

One of the first things they say is, Oh,

so you're going to document my systems?

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And the first thing is, I'm not

going to do anything like that

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because that's not part of what I do.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: This ain't that.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: not that.

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And I'm not going to encourage

you to do have anyone else do that

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either, which always shocks people.

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What do you mean?

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Well, because we don't know that those are

the most effective systems that you have.

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Why waste time documenting something

that we're going to revise, improve?

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Remove, delete, you know,

whatever, whatever it is.

186

And so documentation of systems is useful

once you know you really have a useful,

187

effective, proper, um, whatever term you

want to put around it, system in place.

188

But people assume that by documenting

it, they now have a system.

189

Nope, they had a system long

before they put any word to paper.

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But if we're going to put word to

paper or computer, um, then let's

191

make sure we're actually documenting

what we want to continue to do for at

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least some extended period of time.

193

It may not be forever.

194

You know, that's also part of it is

these things will change over time.

195

Um, but let's make sure we're

documenting what we actually want to do.

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Not necessarily what we're doing.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Got it.

198

Okay.

199

So we want to make sure that whatever

we do document is productive.

200

in some way.

201

It's the best way we know how to do

the thing in this given period of

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: Yep.

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No,

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: document a system?

205

Um, you know, I'm a big fan

of a Google Doc, but I know

206

some people like spreadsheets.

207

Other people like task management systems.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: No, there are

multiple right answers to this.

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And within any organization, there's

also multiple right answers to this.

210

Um, back to getting consistent about how

you're answering that question really

211

becomes important.

212

the important piece of

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm hmm.

214

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Um, and so one of

my things is the fewer places that

215

you have to change something when

something changes, the better.

216

So I'm not a fan of having, um, you

know, a whole set of like a project

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plan or a whole set of tasks in a,

you know, a system like, you know,

218

ClickUp or Asana or, you know, any,

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm hmm.

220

EPISODE 7 GWEN: and then also duplicating

that in some sort of spreadsheet

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or Google doc or any other place.

222

Because now you have

to change it two places

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Right,

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: when something changes.

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Right.

226

So you can say the project plan for,

you know, this launch can be found

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here in Asana and have it link.

228

And so then, but you know that the tasks

themselves are listed out in Asana, and

229

that's the only place that you change it.

230

So that when someone says, yeah,

where do I find the project

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plan for this particular launch?

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If they go to the Google

Docs, like, oh, go here.

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Oh, here it is.

234

And we assume that that is

the most current version.

235

And if anything needs to be changed,

it's often changed on the fly

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as they're, as people are doing.

237

It's like, oh yeah, we're not

using that software anymore.

238

We need to use this other software or,

you know, whatever the case may be.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: right.

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Okay,

241

so, so we've established that systems

are really consistent behaviors, um,

242

that you document, but documentation

alone does not equal a system.

243

I love that you just pointed

out that, you know, systems are

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not special software, right?

245

There's no right or wrong way.

246

It can, a system can be as easy as a

handwritten checklist, it sounds like,

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can be as complex as some kind

of interactive checklist system

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that you have with really pricey

software that I've not heard of.

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I'm sure if somebody listening

or watching knows of this pricey

250

software, they'll tell us about them.

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That's the one thing I love about

having conversations like this in

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public view is that people can tell us

the things that we haven't thought of.

253

You've also talked about the importance of

recognizing your behavior patterns, right?

254

What, what it is you do, you know,

are you the person who's always

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going to ignore the phone call that

comes from an unrecognized number?

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Or are you the person who picks up every

phone call just because that's your

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habit of picking up every phone call?

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So I'm wondering about

the unconscious behaviors.

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What are the, about the behaviors

that we have that we don't know we

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have, that could be either driving

our success or maybe sabotaging it?

261

What do you have to say about those?

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Mm hmm.

263

EPISODE 7 GWEN: So this is

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the place where having someone

work with you outside is really,

265

you know, that's an outside

observer, really can be beneficial.

266

Um, you know, you and I have had this

conversation, I can't even guess how

267

many dozens if not hundreds of times

by now, where you will say something

268

and I will say, well, what do you mean?

269

Because For me, it's so natural, it's so

subconscious, it's so automatic, I don't

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understand that it's unusual or that

there's a particular nuance to it that

271

is different than what most everybody

else in the world sees or hears or does.

272

Um, and so having someone who's able

to actually look outside and say, all

273

right, do you recognize that you do this?

274

And for you to be able to

say, well, no, why would I?

275

I mean, of course I do that.

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Right.

277

And because in our mind, that's the thing.

278

It's like, well, of course I do that.

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Why, how would you not do that?

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And,

281

EPISODE 7 TONYA: How

282

would you not?

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: how would you not?

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I, I know there's several

times I've said that to you.

285

What do you mean?

286

How would you not?

287

And you're like, oh no, no, no

one, no one else does it that way.

288

And I'm

289

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Nobody

else would do that.

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: It seems like craziness.

291

And I am a really good observer

of systems and behaviors.

292

And I can't see it about myself either.

293

Sometimes you have to have someone else

watching to see what that thing is, to

294

see what that little magic potion, what

that little phrasing, whatever, you know,

295

there can be all sorts of little things

that really do make a big difference.

296

Um, and you just can't see it for

yourself because it's, it's just so

297

natural that it's unidentifiable.

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Yes.

299

And you know what, this reminds me

of a conversation we had recently,

300

uh, might've been last week.

301

Might've been yesterday.

302

Time is a, is a fuzzy

thing for me sometimes.

303

Um, so you were talking to somebody

about, like, there was, you were talking

304

to a, a business owner and there was a

challenge, um, with, with a staff member

305

and what it came, you had pointed out

to the business owner, you said, well.

306

Um, you know, your, your staff member

can't get started on the project because

307

you haven't given them enough information.

308

And the business owner

was like, yeah, I have.

309

I told them this and this.

310

And you're like, yeah, yeah,

but that's not enough for them.

311

And you'd said something, which was, I

bet you haven't given them that piece

312

of information because you want the

freedom to change your mind later.

313

And they went, yeah.

314

And you actually, I mean, you

tie it all to Myers Briggs.

315

But, you know, as I was watching

that interchange, I was going, Oh,

316

so this is an example of how the

business owner, because their desire

317

to keep things fluid so that they can

change their mind, they can kind of,

318

you know, bob and weave as needed,

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EPISODE 7 GWEN: And it's been

320

good for them.

321

That's been part of their success,

322

EPISODE 7 TONYA: right.

323

That's part of the success.

324

But as they are developing team

members into higher level positions,

325

it's actually working against them

because These individuals can't

326

perform at the level that the business

owner expects because they don't

327

have the information that they need.

328

Um, so that's the most concrete example I

can think of of how this whole unconscious

329

behavior sort of sabotages success.

330

Can you think of others or do you

want to maybe expand upon that one?

331

Mm

332

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Well, let's uh,

that's a great example and so

333

let's just expand upon, upon it.

334

Um, when, when we hold all of the

cards, when we are the solopreneur,

335

truly the solopreneur, um, you know,

we get to do everything our way.

336

Absolutely 100 percent everything our way.

337

Um, but If the fact that I'm left

handed means that you now have to do

338

everything left handed, that could

become a real problem because now

339

I can only hire left handed people.

340

So where are the things that we

actually can do some give on, right?

341

Where, where is there space

for, for some give in there?

342

And, Entrepreneurs, particularly

solopreneurs as they start,

343

really like the flexibility.

344

That's a lot.

345

I mean, often you say, why did

you start your own business?

346

Well, I wanted flexibility.

347

You know, that

348

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Freedom

349

and flexibility,

350

EPISODE 7 GWEN: and flexibility.

351

Oh my

352

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Freedom and flexibility.

353

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Um, but the problem

is too much freedom and flexibility

354

for anyone, including the owner,

means other people can't start

355

making decisions for themselves.

356

Because there's no way to predict

what owner answer would be,

357

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm.

358

EPISODE 7 GWEN: right?

359

Now, if we start standardizing,

often the owner creative is

360

like, that means I can't change.

361

Well, no, you always can change,

but you can't change without

362

dealing with the consequences.

363

Now, here's the reality that most

people don't understand, is They're

364

dealing with those consequences,

whether they know they are or not.

365

Every time that they're making that

change, that shift, whatever, where

366

before some, they were doing it, they

didn't realize all the consequences

367

that they were causing, because they

were just causing them to themselves.

368

And so it was just a thing

and that's the way it went.

369

And this is the way I work.

370

And, you know, you can justify,

you know, pretty much anything if

371

you want, if you try hard enough.

372

But now that there's other

people in the equation.

373

That same cost is now showing

up in a different way.

374

And so there's this reflection of what's

happening with this system, right?

375

And so that flexibility is probably

still important, but the question

376

is, how important is the thing that

we're trying to remain flexible on?

377

Um, do you really not know?

378

Do you really need time to process?

379

Or are you just wanting.

380

Another two weeks to be absolutely

sure that the answer that you thought

381

of four weeks ago is still the

answer that you have, um, which I

382

see that a lot with entrepreneurs.

383

And, and so systems start putting these

pieces in place and you start finding

384

where am I gumming up the works with

me wanting to have all the flexibility.

385

Because we often think that

all of this intuition is what's

386

actually driving, um, our, our

processes, our systems, our success.

387

Um, usually it's not.

388

There's usually a little bit at

the beginning and a little bit at

389

the end, but most of the middle

is actually fairly consistent.

390

And the more consistent it is, you

actually end up with better results.

391

But everyone thinks they need all sorts

of flexibility in all of these spaces.

392

And, and it's, it's not actually helpful.

393

Because it's allowing you to use up

way too many cycles trying to process a

394

decision that really you already made.

395

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Okay.

396

So,

397

uh, that actually leads

into my next question.

398

Uh, sounds

399

like you kind of

400

EPISODE 7 GWEN: when I do that.

401

EPISODE 7 TONYA: I like

it when you do that, too.

402

That makes my life a lot easier.

403

Less setup on the question, right?

404

Um, which is, you know,

405

how do you create intentional systems

that support your goals and values?

406

And it sounds like what you

just said is you figure out

407

how much you can standardize.

408

and still feel the freedom that's

so important to you, so that you're

409

leaving the flexibility for the

things that truly need to be flexible.

410

Do you have an example

411

of that, like something concrete?

412

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Yeah, so I'll, I'll,

I'll use, Us and the way that we work.

413

So

414

EPISODE 7 TONYA: I like the yes example

because I have some inside knowledge.

415

EPISODE 7 GWEN: couple of things

that are really important to

416

us is context matters, which

417

means we do not have a predefined process

that we're going to take you through

418

step by step by step by step by step,

419

because your outcome and, and, you

know, the next client's outcome, even

420

if you have very similar businesses,

may be very, very different.

421

And there's all sorts of

pieces that play into that.

422

But that doesn't mean we

don't have any systems

423

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm

424

EPISODE 7 GWEN: around that.

425

Okay.

426

Um, we have some places that we start

very consistently because we know that

427

we need to get this set of questions.

428

EPISODE 7 TONYA: hmm.

429

EPISODE 7 GWEN: that we have an onboarding

process that we want you to go through

430

because we've seen over time it works.

431

And so instead of being flexible

about all of those things, we're not.

432

There are some places where,

you know, we do this, we do

433

this, we do this, we do this.

434

We have some areas that we are

very, very consistent about.

435

But there are other areas

that we are very open about.

436

When we first start working together,

we have three different programs, and

437

depending on which one, you're going

to fall into one of those programs.

438

And I'm really not very flexible

for the first three to six months.

439

After you've worked with us for a

while, this is the place where, you

440

know, the choices become possible,

because I now know enough about you

441

and your business to know, is this

choice a reasonable choice or not?

442

But I don't let you have too much

flexibility because then you're

443

not going to make a decision.

444

You're not going to know what to do.

445

You're not going to have,

have direction, right?

446

So we will make adjustments as time

goes, as time goes forward, but we don't

447

just let all options available Right out

of the, right out of the chute, right?

448

Um, so there is some flexibility in there,

but there's also some systems in there.

449

We're going to do this thing

for a certain period of time.

450

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Got it.

451

So that, that is really this, the

structure that goes in there is that we

452

know that there is this thing that we

will do for a significant period of time.

453

And then at the end of that time, then we

go to the next thing, then the next thing,

454

and that in and of itself is the system.

455

And there are systems within

that larger system, right?

456

And I think that's also where

we get tripped up, is sometimes

457

we don't realize that there's

three file folders in place here.

458

We want to look at it all

as one big parent folder.

459

And that's not, uh, oftentimes

that's just not how it works.

460

EPISODE 7 GWEN: it, it,

461

it's not.

462

And, uh, you know, for instance,

we have onboarding processes and

463

there's part of our onboarding

process everybody goes through.

464

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm hmm.

465

EPISODE 7 GWEN: But part of our

onboarding process, only certain clients

466

that have, have purchased certain

packages and certain, um, you know,

467

consulting advisory services go through.

468

Um, so

469

the system is sort of the same, but

there's a point where this one diverges

470

and goes this way, but this, you know, but

you're still doing this one too, right?

471

So we all start here and then, and

then some people are still doing this

472

and doing this and others are just

doing this and that's okay, right?

473

Um, But instead of asking, you

know, what do you want to do here?

474

Do you want to do this?

475

Do you want it?

476

No, no, no, no.

477

We're, you know, and that allows

my folks to then also be able

478

to know what they have to do.

479

I can't even remember the last time I

had to deal with any onboarding issue.

480

EPISODE 7 TONYA: right.

481

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Because we're

doing it in a consistent way.

482

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Mm hmm.

483

And what

484

we have seen, just as an aside, is that

as we have gotten consistent with how

485

we onboard individuals, it also has

streamlined the process of where people

486

are as they start working with us, right?

487

Everybody has a better experience because

we have standardized the onboarding.

488

So, okay, so sort of to sum up here,

when we're talking about systems,

489

we're really talking about harnessing

the power of consistent behavior

490

because everybody has a system.

491

You have systems even when you

don't think you do because systems

492

really are consistent behaviors.

493

And so you have helped us to

appreciate, well really it's been

494

a mutual conversation I would say,

of how you identify your behaviors

495

and it's really paying attention

to what you're doing day to day.

496

Asking yourself a question.

497

Why did I do that?

498

What led me to do it now versus later?

499

Um,

500

as it is

501

EPISODE 7 GWEN: doing it?

502

Should I not be doing it?

503

Yeah, it's, it's

504

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Am I the

best person to be doing this?

505

I think that was something you

506

said

507

EPISODE 7 GWEN: it?

508

That's a great question to be asking.

509

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Right?

510

And then when you're clear that the things

that you're doing actually are the right

511

things in the right order to get yourself

to the goals that you have set, then you

512

come in and you start writing them down.

513

Because that, those are the things

you want to make sure you, you

514

check every box each and every time.

515

And as far as the best way to document

them, that's really between you and

516

your own brain and how it's wired.

517

If you're a pen and paper person, yay you.

518

Checklist person, yay you.

519

Project management system, yay you.

520

You know, for your purposes, Gwen,

I don't think I've ever heard you

521

tell somebody, you know, to the

granular level of Notion versus

522

Trello versus Asana versus whatever.

523

It's like, you do you.

524

Am I right?

525

Am I talking to the school here?

526

Okay.

527

And then

528

EPISODE 7 GWEN: And, and

529

that's a really important piece

because often people think the

530

tool will create the system.

531

EPISODE 7 TONYA: yes,

I cannot tell you how

532

often, how often people have said

like, Oh, if you would just use

533

Notion, you wouldn't have that problem.

534

No, cause I'm still me.

535

This is a me problem.

536

It's been a me problem since I could walk.

537

It will continue to be a me problem and

they will never invent a tool that will

538

outsmart me because I, I am committed

to certain aspects of how I do things.

539

So yes, so it's not Notion,

it's not ClickUp, it's not

540

whatever, it's just how I operate.

541

EPISODE 7 GWEN: Yes.

542

EPISODE 7 TONYA: And, you know, one

of the things that you pointed out

543

is We have to identify and understand

our behavior patterns because we need

544

to be really aware of the things we

don't realize we're doing that are

545

secretly sabotaging our success.

546

And you know, you pointed out it's

that flexibility, that hunger for

547

flexibility and freedom oftentimes can

be our worst enemy when it comes to

548

growing our business because that's

what gets in the way of us being

549

willing to commit to a written list

of this is how we do things here.

550

Have I left anything out?

551

EPISODE 7 GWEN: the, yeah.

552

And the real key about that is when you

are no longer using your brain power to

553

be making what I'm going to call everyday

decisions, now they may not be every

554

day, but they're, recurring decisions.

555

You're actually freeing up your

brain power and that choice

556

possibility for really doing the

creative work of the business.

557

You can't explain it until

someone has experienced it.

558

When all of a sudden they're like, I

have so much more time to think about

559

this, or I came up with this great idea

that I would have never Yes, that's

560

right, because you were spending way

too much time trying to figure out A

561

or B, A or B, A or B, A or B, when you

know it's A 95 percent of the time,

562

and when it's B, it's okay if it's A.

563

So just, just standardize on A.

564

A's gonna be fine.

565

Yeah.

566

EPISODE 7 TONYA: Yeah.

567

Okay.

568

So, um, now, you know, I want to

turn this over to our listeners.

569

Like, I am curious, am I the

only person who this perspective

570

on systems, like, am I the only

person whose mind's blown by this?

571

Because honestly, I've never

heard it discussed this way.

572

And so I'm glad that we were able to

have the conversation in public view.

573

Uh, and I'm curious if you're listening,

like, what unconscious behaviors Do you

574

now recognize are affecting your business?

575

And I want you to let me know.

576

So email me at tonya, T O N

Y A at everydayeffectiveness.

577

com to tell me your story and help

inform future episodes of the show.

578

Because that's really, I think

what makes this conversation about

579

the business you really want so

powerful is the ability to have those

580

real time relevant conversations.

581

So until next time, we will see you soon.