SIOUX FORSYTH: ON ROBERT AND JANE FORSYTH – WESTMINSTER LEGENDS

Laura: Pure dog talk is the voice of purebred dogs. We talked to the legends of the sport and give you the tips and tools to create an awesome life with your purebred dog. As strong supporters of the American Kennel Club, we talk about everything from confirmation to preservation, breeding from competitive obedience to field work, from agility to therapy, dogs, and all the fun in between. Your passion is our purpose. Tremendous thanks to our sponsor, royal canin. Every day more top breeders are choosing Royal Canin. Join the winning team. Laura: Okay, crew, before we get into today's show, I am super excited to tell you about something new here at Pure Dog Talk. We know breeders are the lifeblood of our sport. We celebrate and honor our master breeders, so we're bringing you Breeders Voice. Breeders Voice sits down with top breeders, sharing their secrets, how they got where they are, the joys, and maybe even the heartbreaks. If you haven't had a chance, click the don't miss an episode button so you'll get these in depth articles delivered free along with your podcast. Sign up on our facebook page, or at puredogtalk.com. Laura: Welcome to Pure Dog Talk. I'm your host, Laura Reeves, and I have a very, very special guest today that I know I'm super excited to talk too and I think you guys will be quite excited to hear what she has to say. Sioux Forsyth Green is the daughter of two of America's legendary dog show judges. I guess I would say Jane and Forsyth. So Sioux, welcome so much. I appreciate your time. New Speaker: Well, thank you for having me. Laura: So give us the 411. I mean you had a pretty, I would think, amazing childhood, New Speaker: A lot of people think that! New Speaker: And it was in a lot of ways -- to be able to grow up with two unbelievable dog people -- I was very lucky. Now that I've gone through handling and now I'm judging... the things that I learned on a daily basis that I took for granted, I probably should not have, because a lot of people didn't have those opportunities. Laura: They didn't Sioux... and that's fine. I'm so excited to have you talk to our listeners because I think that the opportunities you have, I personally am jealous of. New Speaker: Well, I grew up around some amazingly good dogs that many people today never got to see, and I saw them on a daily basis. My parents tell of a story that before they were married, they went to Texas uninvited. Laura: Oh Lord. New Speaker: It was them, and George Ward, and this was when George Alston was working for my mother. They had 12 best in show dogs in the truck and they left 10 shows with one group win. Laura: Oh Lord! and I think why I say Oh Lord, and maybe I think it still exists today, but I think it's eased some. I've heard these stories about coming to Texas -- as they say -- uninvited. And we talk about the independent republic of Texas. New Speaker: Oh. And they laughed about it. But the important thing to me is how many handlers have 12 best in show dogs in their truck? You know, a lot of times we're lucky if we have one or even a group winner. Laura: Exactly. So your parents showed some of the top dogs in the country, like you say, 12 best in show dogs in the truck. Think of those dogs. Who is your favorite? New Speaker: I'm a little biased because a Whippet that my father had imported from England from the Charmoll Kennel, his name was Charmoll Clansmen. He sired Sporting Fields Clansman, who was a two time group winner at The Garden... and his father was a bit of a better Whippet; however, Laird did not appreciate dog shows. New Speaker: As only a Whippet can. New Speaker: Yes. He was definitely a purebred and he hated everybody in the kennel, including my mother, because they either stuffed him or did his nails. He was one of the few dogs that my parents showed that lived in our house, because if he didn't, he wouldn't have given even my father at the time of day. And when this dog was retired, they gave him to me because I was the only one that he liked, so he spends the rest of his days on my bed. And I can remember two times that my mother forgot him in the house and we had to go home and get him after we had left for the dog show. But that's how unusual it was for us to keep a dog at our house. They were kennel dogs, they were show dogs, and when they retired they went home to become someone's pet and until then they needed to know what their job was... and their job was to be a show dog, which is very different than the way we look at it today. New Speaker: Absolutely. I was just thinking, wow. Yeah. Back in the day. So you, you handled some before you started judging. How different is it now for you, or was it for you, as a handler than it was for your folks? New Speaker: Oh, it was very different and part of that was personality. Part of that was also the era. When you hired my parents, you hired them because they were professionals and they were the best at what they did. Well, when I started showing dogs, and even after I had started, I had been showing dogs for 20 years. I would have people hire me and then tell me where I needed to go show their dog. Trust me...no one ever told mother where to go show their dogs! New Speaker: The image just.... New Speaker: Very few people told my mother anything, but they really didn't tell her how to do her job. And to me, it's almost a lack of respect that when you hire a professional that's exactly what we're doing, just like hiring your personal doctor or the person that comes to clean your house, you're hiring that person because they're good at what they do. Right? And when you're hiring a handler, you should be hiring them because you respect them and you believe that they will do the best job for you and your dog. And it seems to be law. Laura: Yes. I think there has been a number of those sorts of things that have gone by the wayside for lack of a better term. So I have to tell you, I enjoyed your parents very much. The times that I got to show to them, I didn't know them well. You talk about your, your mother. Nobody told her what to do. I can remember her telling me what drink she would like at the Wirehair Pointer National. I better get it just right. I was like, oh my God, I got her a proper white wine spritzer. And that was what I got. New Speaker: There you go. She was a big Campari drinker and when she passed whe had six cases of Campari. Have you ever tried it? Laura: No. No. Compari is not one of my favorites. New Speaker: Compari is italian glue. It's made from pomegranates, so it's bitter and it's a very thick, syrupy liquor and then she mixed it with grapefruit juice. Laura: Yeah, exactly. Let's talk a little bit more about, I think too many people in the sport today, perhaps only remember your mom, particularly towards the end of her career, by which point she was not willing to suffer fools gladly. How is that? New Speaker: A lot of people think that came with age. Not really! Laura: Well, there you go. New Speaker: And I get told this a lot... that don't ask unless you want the truth. And..my mother was brutally honest. Laura: Yes, yes she was, New Speaker: But she was an amazing, amazing dog person. She would judge a class and I would ask her, why did you put that one up? And she would say something like...did you see those feet, those were the best feet in that class, and without good feet, how can you build upon a poor platform. What's the word I'm looking for. You can't build a great big house on faulty foundations and that was one thing she always looked at some things that we may pass over. Laura: The beauty in the details. New Speaker: Yeah. I cannot tell you how many people come to me and many, many people have hilarious stories of my mother. She really was a very funny lady... and how many of them have to do with toenails. Laura: I just saw something about that. I was, I was stalking you, you know, so I could get a little enough information to feel comfortable and there was somebody had posted about their Short Hair and... Look I did it's toenails and it won. New Speaker: Yeah. And she would make these statements... it was hilarious. Especially right after she passed, people would call me or text me or facebook me or whatever, and there was a Poodle handler that said I have got to tell you the best Janie's story that I have. And My mother was judging Standard Poodles in the midwest and she called out to the handler... which, God forbid we call a handler by name now. Laura: Yes. New Speaker: Oh, the ring of a judge. And she said, you know, you probably have the best one in here, but I can't stand those dead baby hands. And I died laughing Laura: and then. New Speaker: The comments started... because this was posted on facebook publicly. Laura: Yes. New Speaker: The comments started... Well, what are "dead baby hands". And in my mother's era dead baby hands were flat feet and she would tell you... that's what they look like. Laura: Yes... from people of your mother's era, that was frequently commented. And the first time I heard it, the same thing. I'm like, oh dude, Jesus, what is she talking about? New Speaker: Yes. Yeah. So for those of you that don't know what dead baby hands are, they are flat feet Laura: Flat feet are not attractive. So go back and think about some of the super top winners that your folks showed and because you have such a great scope of time in the sport, talk about the overall quality of the dogs that were being shown at the time that your parents handled and some of our top dogs today. Can you make those kind of comparisons? New Speaker: First of all, when my parents were showing dogs, especially in the fifties and sixties and then on into the seventies and the retired in 1981, they both worked for these huge kennels before they went off on their own. My father worked for Mardemere which is a Whippet and Greyhound kennel. They kept at all times 50 head of Greyhound and a hundred head of Whippet... ALL the time. We don't have that anymore and that's why I believed for many reasons, but one big reason that we have really lost a lot of quality and depth of quality in a lot of these breeds is we don't have those huge breeders anymore. We don't have kennels of 100, 200 dogs that are just a breeding kennel. Laura: Right? And if we have them they are puppy mills and they're bad. So help people understand how that just the sheer numbers enabled these breeders to create dogs with that depth of quality that you're talking about. New Speaker: Well, first of all, they were owned by very wealthy people. "Dodge"...we always had 45 to 50 Smooth Fox Terriers for Mrs. Ferrol of Ferrol Shipping Lines. So we're talking quite wealthy people and they would hire someone like my mother or my father to run their breeding program and their kennels. So of course they would then have other people under them. It keeps the kennel up, but then they would take these people's dogs to the dog show and show them. So then you're cultivating your private handlers. So instead of having to go out on your own and have 10 to 20 clients, able to pay your bills, you can work one kennel and gain experience breeding, whelping, raising dogs, and then taking them to the dog show every weekend. That's what these people did. It was their golf or their tennis or whatever someone may do for their relaxation and enjoyment, have these huge kennel of dogs. And that was their identity. Laura: Right? New Speaker: I know when Peter Green first came to this country, he worked for some individuals that had these very large kennels and that's how a lot of our professional handlers then, how they earned enough money to go out on their own and become independent professional handlers and show dogs for several different clients, instead of the one that they worked for. It's not only the quality, but it's the depth of quality that we're losing because we don't have these kennels anymore. Laura: They were able to do more breedings, keep more dogs, evaluate more dogs, run on more dogs. They didn't have to fight with co-owners and all of the kinds of things that we have to deal with in the sport today because society has changed so drastically. New Speaker: Yeah. And a whole other discussion will be the animal rights people who have done a whole lot of no good for this business, but you asked me probably the two top winning dogs that my...