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108: Staffing Specialist Chris Bousquet | 3 Steps to Hiring Better Quality Restaurant Employees.
Episode 108 • 22nd September 2022 • Turning the Table • Realignment Media
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Hospitality Recruiter and Career Coach Chris Bousquet joins Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb of Realignment Hospitality to talk about 3 Steps to Hiring Better Quality Restaurant Employees.

Highlights:

1.) Keep your resume simple.

2.) Understand what the ATS does and doesn't do.

3.) Be clear about your values and what your prospective employer values.

To learn more about Chris's work, click here.


Turning the Table Is the most progressive weekly podcast for today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff-centric operating solutions for restaurants in the #newhospitalityculture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb as they "turn the tables" on the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Sponsored by Benchmark Sixty Restaurant Services


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This show is sponsored by Benchmark Sixty; check out their unique staff retention solution

In partnership with Realignment Hospitality

Copyright 2023 Realignment Media

108: Recruiter Chris Bousquet, how to start a restaurant, restaurant consulting, restaurant management, restaurant business plan, restaurant owner, restaurant marketing, food cost calculator, how to run a restaurant, restaurant menu design, food cost, food cost percentage, food cost formula, commercial kitchen design, restaurant employee handbook, business plan for a bar, 3 Steps to Hiring Better Quality Restaurant Employees



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Transcripts

Adam Lamb:

Welcome to another episode of Turning the Table.

Adam Lamb:

This is episode 1 0 8.

Adam Lamb:

Smart staffing strategies.

Adam Lamb:

We're here with good friend Jim Taylor, Benchmark 60, sir.

Adam Lamb:

Morning.

Jim Taylor:

Morning.

Jim Taylor:

Good afternoon, whatever.

Jim Taylor:

I guess wherever you are, depending we talking, listening, or watching.

Adam Lamb:

We have our good friend in the waiting room, Chris Bousquet,

Adam Lamb:

who's a staffing expert who's gonna be joining us cuz he's got some

Adam Lamb:

wisdom to impart to all of us.

Adam Lamb:

Hey

Chris Bousquet:

Chris, how are.

Chris Bousquet:

Gentlemen, good morning.

Chris Bousquet:

How are you?

Chris Bousquet:

Hi, Chris.

Chris Bousquet:

. Great

Adam Lamb:

to see you.

Adam Lamb:

Sorry about the miscommunication, my friend, in regards to

Adam Lamb:

how to get into the room.

Chris Bousquet:

None at all.

Chris Bousquet:

You know what they say, Hopefully late, but worth the wait.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah, absolutely, my friend.

Adam Lamb:

So we were having a conversation last week.

Adam Lamb:

It kept coming up.

Adam Lamb:

Course staffing is the big thing that everybody's talking about,

Adam Lamb:

and so we thought it would be a great idea to bring you in because

Adam Lamb:

this is actually your specialty.

Adam Lamb:

So instead of.

Adam Lamb:

Trying to talk about something perhaps that we know something about,

Adam Lamb:

you're actually in the business of not only recruiting, but also

Adam Lamb:

of, of career coaching for folks who are actually looking for work.

Adam Lamb:

Correct.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

Well, thank you so much for having me, Adam.

Chris Bousquet:

You know I gotta say that's, I've been tuning into the podcast and I

Chris Bousquet:

think I, I only miss one so far, but you know, I really appreciate.

Chris Bousquet:

Your you know, your effort, your time, your thought, your insight.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, I love the platform and I think that it's, it's getting a

Chris Bousquet:

lot of good, you know, conversation and communication out there.

Chris Bousquet:

So keep up the great work.

Chris Bousquet:

It's really, Thank you.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, it's seeing and greatly appreciated you know, in the industry.

Adam Lamb:

So Fantastic.

Adam Lamb:

I really appreciate that.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And Jim for, or Chris, for those perhaps who might not necessarily be as

Adam Lamb:

familiar with you as they should, . You also have a deep deep experience in

Adam Lamb:

the hospitality industry, so can you talk a little bit about your time

Adam Lamb:

at Hillstone and some of that other stuff that you were doing before you

Adam Lamb:

decided to make this particular shift?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah,

Chris Bousquet:

absolute pleasure.

Chris Bousquet:

I've been in hospitality for 23 years.

Chris Bousquet:

The far majority of that was at Hillstone Restaurant Group.

Chris Bousquet:

I had the pleasure of working there for over 10 years, and

Chris Bousquet:

I worked nationwide with them.

Chris Bousquet:

I was in Napa, San Francisco, Denver, New York, New Jersey, Rockville, Orlando.

Chris Bousquet:

So close to coast in many different markets.

Chris Bousquet:

And, you know, I left that company as enamored on day 3,650 as I was on day one.

Chris Bousquet:

Wow.

Chris Bousquet:

The company teaches you more about consistency, quality attention

Chris Bousquet:

to detail and standards then.

Chris Bousquet:

Then I can imagine ever learning anywhere else, and there's other

Chris Bousquet:

companies doing amazing work.

Chris Bousquet:

Sure.

Chris Bousquet:

They do a great job of laying below the radar.

Chris Bousquet:

So, you know, they been in business almost 50 years and have almost 50 locations.

Chris Bousquet:

But you know, they make you feel like most locations are your own kind of

Chris Bousquet:

neighborhood restaurant when you go there.

Chris Bousquet:

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

. And I just learned so much about myself and grew so much, you know,

Chris Bousquet:

over the course of the 10 years, really learned how to be an operator.

Chris Bousquet:

And the funny thing is, is that one thing that Houstons doesn't teach

Chris Bousquet:

you is how to not work at Houstons.

Chris Bousquet:

So when you first leave , you know, I remember I went elsewhere to an

Chris Bousquet:

amazing, huge company in New York.

Chris Bousquet:

And we'll get into it in a minute, but I don't want to make it sound like this

Chris Bousquet:

is disparaging, but you know, I remember the first p l was like six weeks late

Chris Bousquet:

and, and facilities were not as tight.

Chris Bousquet:

and it's just, you know, and then you kind of see that's more of the real world.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, I was in like a Fantasyland I was in Disneyland of restaurants.

Chris Bousquet:

And then, and this is more of the real world, real people

Chris Bousquet:

and real problems and real.

Chris Bousquet:

Real issues.

Chris Bousquet:

So you know, that was kind of a learning curve for me.

Chris Bousquet:

And I, I'll be honest, I came in real, really too hot and you know, a little

Chris Bousquet:

bit on fire because, you know, Houston teaches you to drop you into all these

Chris Bousquet:

different cities as if you own the place.

Chris Bousquet:

So walking, I'm like that.

Chris Bousquet:

What are you doing?

Chris Bousquet:

Like, this is a mess.

Chris Bousquet:

This is wrong.

Chris Bousquet:

That light bulbs out.

Chris Bousquet:

Like, come on, let's get it together.

Chris Bousquet:

And I, you know I didn't get buy-in, I didn.

Chris Bousquet:

Didn't get to know anybody.

Chris Bousquet:

I didn't get them to let them know me, and it had a real adverse effect and

Chris Bousquet:

it took a little while to come out of.

Chris Bousquet:

Luckily you know, I lead by example, so I'm like, Hey, this, this needs to be

Chris Bousquet:

painted, and then I grab a paint brush.

Chris Bousquet:

So I think they, you know, they saw a little bit that I wasn't

Chris Bousquet:

just being a jerk about it.

Chris Bousquet:

But you know, I really learned from that experience.

Chris Bousquet:

Anyway, to answer your question more thorough directly.

Chris Bousquet:

I worked at at Houston's.

Chris Bousquet:

Then after that I worked for a company called BR Guest in Manhattan.

Chris Bousquet:

At that point was already you know, Steve Hanson had sold the

Chris Bousquet:

company, but also a great experience.

Chris Bousquet:

I thought I was gonna retire from hospitality.

Chris Bousquet:

I went to work for Apple at the world's flagship location in

Chris Bousquet:

Manhattan for a couple years.

Chris Bousquet:

And, you know, that was another level.

Chris Bousquet:

So that taught me so much about teamwork and development, you

Chris Bousquet:

know, in a busy restaurant.

Chris Bousquet:

A manager who doesn't delegate, you know, they shouldn't do everything, but

Chris Bousquet:

they kind of, they, they kind of can, you know, they shouldn't, but they can.

Chris Bousquet:

In a store like that, with, that's 24 hours of 800 employees doing 600

Chris Bousquet:

million in sales, you actually cannot.

Chris Bousquet:

So, you know, I learned to depend on other people and develop, and I always thought

Chris Bousquet:

if I could have brought some of those skills back to hospitality, how much,

Chris Bousquet:

even more successful I would've been.

Chris Bousquet:

So that's exactly what I did.

Chris Bousquet:

I left after about two years, and then I went to work for Starbucks, opened

Chris Bousquet:

their flagship location in Manhattan, one of six worldwide Roastary location.

Chris Bousquet:

And really never look back ultimately getting out of operations

Chris Bousquet:

and opening a recruiting firm.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, as much as I enjoyed working in operations, even at the great

Chris Bousquet:

locations, I, I was telling you about, you know, you meet and you work with 50

Chris Bousquet:

people, a hundred people, and there was a great experience now as a coach and

Chris Bousquet:

as a recruiter, that gets exponential because now I work with operators and they

Chris Bousquet:

have their own 50 and a hundred people.

Chris Bousquet:

So now, you know, the dozens become hundreds, the hundreds become thousands,

Chris Bousquet:

and I really think that's how you kind of grow and, and create a legacy.

Chris Bousquet:

And, and I'm, I'm have the absolute pleasure of helping more people now

Chris Bousquet:

than I ever have been able to before.

Adam Lamb:

Great.

Adam Lamb:

That's amazing.

Adam Lamb:

Do you miss being, In the grind, in the, in the heat of the moment

Adam Lamb:

and in the hospitality industry.

Chris Bousquet:

Every sec, every second of every day.

Chris Bousquet:

So one, you know, I really, I miss that, like that, the energy

Chris Bousquet:

and the controlled chaos too.

Chris Bousquet:

As you guys know, you gotta turn your brain off.

Chris Bousquet:

I can't even go to a restaurant with my fiance without sound hate saying,

Chris Bousquet:

I wonder what they pay for rent here.

Chris Bousquet:

And you know that that server is good or that hostess is quoting way too high.

Chris Bousquet:

You gotta turn your brain off else.

Chris Bousquet:

You'll never be able to enjoy yourself.

Chris Bousquet:

I miss it.

Chris Bousquet:

And, and I almost get roped back in like nearly daily, if not weekly.

Chris Bousquet:

And you know, if there were more hours in the day or I could figure

Chris Bousquet:

out how to not sleep, I think that I would, I think I would.

Adam Lamb:

Fantastic.

Adam Lamb:

I completely agree.

Adam Lamb:

I, yeah.

Adam Lamb:

My wife and I are in here, a hotel in Canada and you know, going up to

Adam Lamb:

the roof bar to have a bite to eat.

Adam Lamb:

It feels like instantaneous just started looking around,

Adam Lamb:

but, you know, where's the exit?

Adam Lamb:

Where are the service stations?

Adam Lamb:

It's just Right.

Adam Lamb:

It's almost like a conscious moment of having it shit it off.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Even when we try to leave the industry, we just can't fully leave.

Jim Taylor:

Right?

Jim Taylor:

Happens, happens, all happens.

Jim Taylor:

All happens.

Jim Taylor:

All

Adam Lamb:

the.

Adam Lamb:

And I just wanted to shout out to a couple folks who have been following us.

Adam Lamb:

First off, I wanna say hey to Stephanie Husky.

Adam Lamb:

So she's been a great supporter of not only the work that we've been

Adam Lamb:

doing on the show, but Benchmark 60 and also Michelle Moreno who's working

Adam Lamb:

with us to sharpen her skills.

Adam Lamb:

And so we say welcome to her as well.

Adam Lamb:

And Jim, I know that we were talking before the show about,

Adam Lamb:

we were gonna try to split this up into kind of two different.

Adam Lamb:

Portions and I know that wanna be respectful of everybody's

Adam Lamb:

time cuz we only have 30 minutes.

Adam Lamb:

But you know, you were, you brought up the point that, you know, most recruiters are

Adam Lamb:

not necessarily career coaches as well.

Adam Lamb:

Some recruiters are just, you know, focused on their job.

Adam Lamb:

But once you ask Chris about kind of what we were talking about and.

Adam Lamb:

You know, best to make use of those type of services, I guess.

Adam Lamb:

Sure.

Adam Lamb:

Well,

Jim Taylor:

yeah, and you know, when I, when Chris and I first got connected,

Jim Taylor:

and Chris, I don't even know if I've ever told you this, but one of the things

Jim Taylor:

that I actually found really interesting about the work that you do is, for one,

Jim Taylor:

you're obviously doing some incredible work recruiting, and you know, if

Jim Taylor:

anybody's listening needs a recruiter, they should definitely call Chris.

Jim Taylor:

But the other side of it that I thought was really interesting was

Jim Taylor:

the career coaching and, and stuff that you do and helping people

Jim Taylor:

position themselves properly in order.

Jim Taylor:

Be successful.

Jim Taylor:

And there's, I mean, maybe you can tell the story better than I

Jim Taylor:

can, cuz I'd probably butcher it.

Jim Taylor:

But there was one example you were telling me and I think our first

Jim Taylor:

conversation about how you just went to the restaurant just to help and,

Jim Taylor:

you know, nobody was paying you or anything, you just went to like, help

Jim Taylor:

the operation, help mentor some people, help, you know, that kind of thing.

Jim Taylor:

And so can you tell us a little bit about your, your sort of stance on coaching

Jim Taylor:

and how you help the industry just kind of move forward and the people that.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah, pleasure.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, the way that I feel is and it's changing a little bit, but if

Chris Bousquet:

you think about it really, how many times have you had to, you know,

Chris Bousquet:

rewrite your resume in your life?

Chris Bousquet:

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

, you know, five, 10, you know, a dozen maybe.

Chris Bousquet:

It's almost to the point where it's not really fair that that's what candidates

Chris Bousquet:

are judged upon when you don't.

Chris Bousquet:

It's not something we do enough to get really skilled at.

Chris Bousquet:

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

. So if I can, you know, if I see a dozen resumes a day, it's an absolute

Chris Bousquet:

pleasure to help somebody extract the information that they know that they

Chris Bousquet:

know, but maybe they don't know how to present it either on their resume.

Chris Bousquet:

So that's the first step.

Chris Bousquet:

So, you know, I help people by really highlighting some of their

Chris Bousquet:

achievements and accomplishments over the course of their career.

Chris Bousquet:

Next, I think it's important to practice the interview process because again, you

Chris Bousquet:

know, 30 minutes, 60 minutes of somebody's time that you get in this day and age,

Chris Bousquet:

probably over an experience like this.

Chris Bousquet:

So possibly not face to face, and it's easy to either, you know, get

Chris Bousquet:

nervous or not really comprehend.

Chris Bousquet:

Questions should be answered.

Chris Bousquet:

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

. So I think if we can practice that a little bit, that also helps.

Chris Bousquet:

And again, you know, this isn't to give anybody necessarily an unfair advantage.

Chris Bousquet:

Sometimes that's the result.

Chris Bousquet:

But really it's just to extract the answers that I know.

Chris Bousquet:

If they had 24 hours to think about that, they would say.

Chris Bousquet:

And if you've ever been in a position where you think back and regret and

Chris Bousquet:

think about what you could have said or would've said, as we all do every

Chris Bousquet:

day interviewing or not, you know, we really want, I really want candidates to.

Chris Bousquet:

Get, or to be honest, you know, get or not get a job based on their

Chris Bousquet:

real experience and knowledge, not based on their interaction or their

Chris Bousquet:

nerves or any of those things.

Chris Bousquet:

So, mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

, I never tell people what to say.

Chris Bousquet:

I never put words in people's mouths, but, you know, I just ask common

Chris Bousquet:

questions or questions that I would ask if I was still in operations.

Chris Bousquet:

And we kind of practice that a little bit.

Chris Bousquet:

And it goes from the beginning of the interview to the.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, people don't even realize at the beginning of an interview if

Chris Bousquet:

somebody says, How's your day going?

Chris Bousquet:

Or How is your commute here?

Chris Bousquet:

You know, if you start off negatives and say, Well, you know, I'm having a

Chris Bousquet:

rough day, or The commute was rough.

Chris Bousquet:

These are all reports of the interview.

Chris Bousquet:

So, you know, not necessarily needs to be fake, but I'm having a great day.

Chris Bousquet:

The commute was great because if it was rough to get here for an interview, how

Chris Bousquet:

am I gonna get to work every single day?

Chris Bousquet:

Anyway, I think you get the point right through the end of the interview.

Chris Bousquet:

The interviewer asks if they have any questions.

Chris Bousquet:

I commonly see people you know, either get an anxious or maybe they haven't

Chris Bousquet:

thought through, and they say, No, I think you've answered all the questions.

Chris Bousquet:

It's not possible.

Chris Bousquet:

They can't read your mind and you haven't asked any questions.

Chris Bousquet:

So I always give people at least three or four ideas of some.

Chris Bousquet:

Typically good questions that I would want to know.

Chris Bousquet:

And then at the very least, that hopefully either gives them some material, but

Chris Bousquet:

more often than that actually sparks other ideas that they can have.

Chris Bousquet:

So, and then I even offer to the end some tips on salary negotiation.

Chris Bousquet:

Again, it's been so one sided for the employer that.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, there's, there's some culture and even some legislation catching

Chris Bousquet:

up for pay trans transparency.

Chris Bousquet:

But I still think that there's six techniques that you can learn and be

Chris Bousquet:

skilled at and be confident at, so that you're not just getting a number

Chris Bousquet:

that makes sense to the employer that you're actually getting paid for, you

Chris Bousquet:

know, what the market value for that position and your experience are.

Jim Taylor:

So, Adam, if it's cool if I ask another, there's just

Jim Taylor:

something that's, he needs to go right ahead from me right now.

Jim Taylor:

There's.

Jim Taylor:

, all of this discussion about how, you know, you hear people saying all the

Jim Taylor:

time right now, you know, the, the workforce has changed or the expectation

Jim Taylor:

of the generation has changed, or, you know, people don't wanna work, or

Jim Taylor:

whatever that kind of thing might be.

Jim Taylor:

Plus the fact that some of the labor shortages that are happening

Jim Taylor:

right now are definitely making it more of an employee market.

Jim Taylor:

You know, an employee driven market.

Jim Taylor:

It's, you know, if you're a job searcher, you're in the driver's

Jim Taylor:

seat to a degree, at least it seems.

Jim Taylor:

So, are you finding that people are coming to you more to say, How do I pick

Jim Taylor:

the right employer as opposed to the employer picking the right candidate?

Jim Taylor:

You know, I was talking to a guy the other day who had an applicant that

Jim Taylor:

had gone to seven interviews that day.

Jim Taylor:

He had six offers in front of him and was basically gonna say, who's

Jim Taylor:

got the best offer, kind of thing.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

Are you finding that people are asking for advice on how to

Jim Taylor:

negotiate that type of stuff?

Chris Bousquet:

You know I wouldn't say necessarily in

Chris Bousquet:

that direction that comes to me.

Chris Bousquet:

What I'm finding more is people looking for hybrid and or remote roles.

Chris Bousquet:

And while that certainly is becoming more popular, it's difficult

Chris Bousquet:

in retail and or hospitality.

Chris Bousquet:

Right?

Chris Bousquet:

Right.

Chris Bousquet:

You can't sell a tangible product from.

Chris Bousquet:

The luxury of your own home, right?

Chris Bousquet:

You just can't.

Chris Bousquet:

There's some admin roles that are possible.

Chris Bousquet:

There's some HR roles and maybe marketing, but you know, day to day

Chris Bousquet:

operations is not necessarily the case.

Chris Bousquet:

There are some great groups out there one that I used to work with called Need,

Chris Bousquet:

Hospitality and Design that is really trying to figure that out even on a, a

Chris Bousquet:

management level and they're offering.

Chris Bousquet:

It's a beta program, so I don't think they have IT nation companywide yet, but they

Chris Bousquet:

have a program where their managers can work at least their fifth day from home

Chris Bousquet:

during their admin because we always, you know, we used to either try and work

Chris Bousquet:

it in between lunch and dinner, right?

Chris Bousquet:

Or go in early or stay late.

Chris Bousquet:

But you know, if you're smart and you figure about 20% of your time

Chris Bousquet:

as that meant anyway, you just bank it all and do it all in one day.

Chris Bousquet:

So whatever that looks like, coding, invoices, doing schedules,

Chris Bousquet:

whatever it may be, and they're do also doing some other great work.

Chris Bousquet:

I get a, a handful of people that are looking to change industry and on the

Chris Bousquet:

surface that, that does sound great, but I generally have to walk them

Chris Bousquet:

through what that really looks like.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, are you willing to start over?

Chris Bousquet:

It's a really humble place to come from.

Chris Bousquet:

You might have to go down a couple.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, ban bans in salary.

Chris Bousquet:

And for those that are willing to, it's a hundred percent my

Chris Bousquet:

pleasure to help them do so.

Chris Bousquet:

But it's, you know, when you talk through all that and, and benefits and things

Chris Bousquet:

that come along with tenure, I would say a good, you know, 60, 60, 70% of the time

Chris Bousquet:

we just go back to getting something.

Chris Bousquet:

Not necessarily in their comfort zone, but something that, you know, will

Chris Bousquet:

continue their career or, you know, yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, maybe a little bit of a deviation, but it's really hard to go from

Chris Bousquet:

a totally different industry, I think.

Chris Bousquet:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

Chris, let me ask you a quick question about gatekeepers.

Adam Lamb:

So, you know, most, a lot of the beginning of the application process

Adam Lamb:

is done remotely and it used to be, You know, there was a person that

Adam Lamb:

was actually scanning your resume.

Adam Lamb:

So I know that you, earlier you were talking about that you are

Adam Lamb:

actively coaching along with the resume process, but more and more it

Adam Lamb:

seems like there are computers or AI that are actually scanning these in

Adam Lamb:

order to look for certain keywords.

Adam Lamb:

And if those keywords aren't present, then it automatically kicks you out.

Adam Lamb:

And so I'm curious to know if you have any advice for the folks who

Adam Lamb:

are maybe polishing up their resume.

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

Like the best way to avoid being, you know, thrown out a pile even before they

Adam Lamb:

get a chance to take part in an interview.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

Thanks for asking.

Chris Bousquet:

I'll be honest, I, I don't mind the ATS applicant tracking systems and

Chris Bousquet:

I'll tell you why computers behave more consistent than people do.

Chris Bousquet:

Right.

Chris Bousquet:

So previously when hiring managers were getting dozens to hundreds

Chris Bousquet:

of applications, there's some biases that come into play, whether

Chris Bousquet:

they're conscious or subconscious.

Chris Bousquet:

There are time constraints, right?

Chris Bousquet:

So if I have a five minutes to read a hundred resumes, it's

Chris Bousquet:

just not gonna happen, right?

Chris Bousquet:

Right.

Chris Bousquet:

And then, you know, there's disparity, whether it be ageism, right.

Chris Bousquet:

People that put.

Chris Bousquet:

Whatever their experience years or even their high school graduation or grad

Chris Bousquet:

college graduation date on there, we're recommending against to avoid that.

Chris Bousquet:

So the computer doesn't discriminate, but it does have strict parameters.

Chris Bousquet:

The advice that, that I have to give is one, while there's plenty

Chris Bousquet:

of new ways to design a resume newer than you know, where mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

accustomed to the, you know, the old templates keep it

Chris Bousquet:

relatively simple because if you.

Chris Bousquet:

Put a lot of pictures or if you design it and then import as

Chris Bousquet:

graphics, those aren't being read.

Chris Bousquet:

So it is skipping that whole portion of the resume.

Chris Bousquet:

Right?

Chris Bousquet:

Right.

Chris Bousquet:

So if you put in the top left colors and you put in, you know, your

Chris Bousquet:

competencies generally that, that box of, of, of picture not text, is

Chris Bousquet:

not written, not read at all two you have to have clearly defined sections.

Chris Bousquet:

So you know, you wanna.

Chris Bousquet:

Work experience.

Chris Bousquet:

Literally the words work experience, cuz work and experience get picked up by the

Chris Bousquet:

ets, Education gets picked up by the ets.

Chris Bousquet:

So for, and I listen, I, I understand and I implore people to, to wanna

Chris Bousquet:

express themselves and this is the type of expression, but if, if we're

Chris Bousquet:

doing something that we think is very modern and we're calling work experience

Chris Bousquet:

something else, I don't, I don't even know, you know, life or whatever you,

Chris Bousquet:

what I've seen on millions of resumes, computer doesn't understand that and.

Chris Bousquet:

It's not programed to pick that up.

Chris Bousquet:

So it's, it's skipping over that.

Chris Bousquet:

So if you have something random or you don't even put experience in there, it

Chris Bousquet:

just sees dates and positions and it's probably not giving you credit because

Chris Bousquet:

it, it takes all that information and then exports it into a different type of file.

Chris Bousquet:

So you know, you're not getting the work experience that you think you're getting.

Chris Bousquet:

And then lastly you know, I really want to implore people to avoid

Chris Bousquet:

redundancy because if you put the word inventory and your resume.

Chris Bousquet:

More than 3, 4, 5 times, you're losing the ability to get credit or tracked

Chris Bousquet:

for other, other types of work.

Chris Bousquet:

Right.

Chris Bousquet:

So, you know, I'm not saying, I guess my point is to either use different synonyms

Chris Bousquet:

for, you know, similar roles or, you know, it's, it's a little bit redundant

Chris Bousquet:

even to the human eye to read you.

Chris Bousquet:

Inventory, blah, blah, blah, at job one and the inventory, blah, blah, blah.

Chris Bousquet:

Same exact thing, job two, and then inventory, blah, blah, blah.

Chris Bousquet:

Same exact thing, job three.

Chris Bousquet:

So maybe you put, you know, inventory tracking in, in the first job,

Chris Bousquet:

and then the second one variance exploration or something like that.

Chris Bousquet:

And then the third one, you put, you know, value whatever value estimation,

Chris Bousquet:

something along those lines.

Chris Bousquet:

So you're mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

, you're, you're giving the computer the, the opportunity to, you know, to

Chris Bousquet:

recognize different skill sets that you.

Adam Lamb:

Can you, for those people who may not even be aware that the system

Adam Lamb:

exists out there can you talk a, just give kind of brief overview about what ATS

Adam Lamb:

and how it's being deployed in this space?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah,

Chris Bousquet:

absolutely.

Chris Bousquet:

So any applicant tracking system Is and, and you can kind of tell that

Chris Bousquet:

you're going to one, if you've ever gone to a career site and immediately

Chris Bousquet:

a bot pops up and says, You know how, Thanks so much for your interest.

Chris Bousquet:

How can I help you with the application ? It's more than likely

Chris Bousquet:

going to then be going onto an ats.

Chris Bousquet:

So the ATS.

Chris Bousquet:

Again, scans the resume in milliseconds and picks up some of

Chris Bousquet:

these things that we're talking about.

Chris Bousquet:

So the experience and, and some of it is just obvious, you know,

Chris Bousquet:

the city that you live in mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

, the jobs that you've had, the experience, the education, and

Chris Bousquet:

then it filters these into the, the output for the, for the client.

Chris Bousquet:

And this could be either a rating system, you know, of one to a

Chris Bousquet:

hundred of how likely they are to be successful at this job.

Chris Bousquet:

And I, I, it's evolving every day.

Chris Bousquet:

I'm even seeing.

Chris Bousquet:

Applicant tracking systems that tell an employer how likely this

Chris Bousquet:

person is to leave their job.

Chris Bousquet:

And you know, the, that go into that are another level that you're thinking.

Chris Bousquet:

And that's based on the years they've had in the industry, but

Chris Bousquet:

also the years, the time that they've had at their current job.

Chris Bousquet:

And I guess there's a philosophy that people are staying X amount

Chris Bousquet:

of time at a job, so 37 months later, they're more, whatever.

Chris Bousquet:

I'm not saying 37 X amount of months later, they're more likely

Chris Bousquet:

to leave than if they're still in the honeymoon phase of their new.

Adam Lamb:

And that time was probably shrinking

Chris Bousquet:

and that time was just going down.

Chris Bousquet:

I read a study the other day.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

That globally, 40% and, and coincidentally America, United States was also 40%.

Chris Bousquet:

So it matched to global average of current people in the workforce

Chris Bousquet:

are look, will be leaving their job in the next three to six months.

Chris Bousquet:

Which is, which is insane.

Chris Bousquet:

Which is unreal.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, As with any ai, you know, it's gonna get smarter

Adam Lamb:

and faster and you know, this system is not gonna go away . So it behooves

Adam Lamb:

everybody who's listening and watching to make sure that their resumes are

Adam Lamb:

compliant with that system and their websites that you can go, that they do

Adam Lamb:

an initial scan and give you feedback.

Adam Lamb:

Of course, for a, for a fee.

Adam Lamb:

Love,

Chris Bousquet:

love lover, or hate it.

Chris Bousquet:

It's in, it's in place and getting more popular, so you might as

Chris Bousquet:

well use it to your advantage.

Chris Bousquet:

Right?

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

It's not going anywhere.

Adam Lamb:

Chris, if we could pivot to industry or for a second one of my pet

Adam Lamb:

peeves is the way some companies write their their ads for mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

for staff.

Adam Lamb:

And I know that it's really important for today's applicants or job seekers.

Adam Lamb:

Find companies in which their values can actually resonate or mesh.

Adam Lamb:

And it seems like there are some companies that just don't seem

Adam Lamb:

to have gotten that message yet because they're starting off with.

Adam Lamb:

They're starting off with their posts, you know, just kind

Adam Lamb:

of the way that always has.

Adam Lamb:

I saw one the other day that the first line above the fold was for an executive

Adam Lamb:

chef, must, must maintain a clean uniform.

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

. So, so you get an opportunity to coach your applicants.

Adam Lamb:

Do you also get an opportunity to coach your client, your, your company

Adam Lamb:

clients, insofar as what are the things that they can be doing to

Adam Lamb:

better attract the right talent?

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

Listen, that's a great question.

Chris Bousquet:

. I would say that, you know, any type of consulting is interesting cuz you're

Chris Bousquet:

managing without direct influence, right?

Chris Bousquet:

All of my clients, I can only make suggestions based on the

Chris Bousquet:

years of my experience and hopefully they value that enough.

Chris Bousquet:

But at the end of the day, you know, I, I don't, you know, we don't

Chris Bousquet:

work directly at, at those clients.

Chris Bousquet:

So I think the best partners are the ones that are open to feedback.

Chris Bousquet:

Take that critic, that constructive help and put it into place.

Chris Bousquet:

I will say that I think my success is.

Chris Bousquet:

do in part, to putting a, a, a spin on, oh, an already existing ad and

Chris Bousquet:

then repurposing it and placing my own ad to make it, to make it enticing.

Chris Bousquet:

And I think that's where I get a lot of my applicants and candidates.

Chris Bousquet:

And it's also, you know, sometimes you have a company that the, the ship

Chris Bousquet:

is a little too big to steer, so you.

Chris Bousquet:

Not that I have, you know, some of my previous employers as as

Chris Bousquet:

clients like Starbucks and whether they would or wouldn't, and

Chris Bousquet:

they do a great job on culture.

Chris Bousquet:

So I'm not really using them as an example, but you know, you

Chris Bousquet:

try and steer that ship and tell them how they should place their.

Chris Bousquet:

It's, you know, it's not likely to go anywhere, and if it does, it's

Chris Bousquet:

gotta go too far up the chain.

Chris Bousquet:

So but I think you're absolutely right.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that motivations have shifted and workers are re really

Chris Bousquet:

rethinking where they wanna work.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that a good ad starts with a little bit of history about the company.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that adding things like mission and values and culture are, are

Chris Bousquet:

really important to today's workforce.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that it's been.

Chris Bousquet:

Not necessarily any longer just about career advancement opportunities and or

Chris Bousquet:

wages and or benefits, which all help.

Chris Bousquet:

But whereas those used to be differentiators, now they're

Chris Bousquet:

almost like tickets to entry.

Chris Bousquet:

And that that's really just what should be getting you candidates in the first place.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

What do you see we've talked about this a lot, the whole,

Jim Taylor:

you know, coming from a retention.

Jim Taylor:

Perspective.

Jim Taylor:

We talk about potential a lot, obviously.

Jim Taylor:

What's, What are you seeing some of these companies do that are really

Jim Taylor:

cool in terms of added benefits?

Jim Taylor:

You know, like you were just saying, wage and time off and that kind of

Jim Taylor:

thing is like, just take it to entry.

Jim Taylor:

What do you, what are some of the cool things that you're seeing

Jim Taylor:

that companies are doing to say, you know, you gotta work for

Chris Bousquet:

us?

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, I think that It used to be that wages could have the potential

Chris Bousquet:

to be enough, but I think if you, you know, live and die by the dollar,

Chris Bousquet:

you're gonna also live and die.

Chris Bousquet:

You're gonna die by the dollar, right?

Chris Bousquet:

People will leave as soon as they get increases elsewhere.

Chris Bousquet:

So I think that there's, there's a lot of intangibles that people.

Chris Bousquet:

And clients need to take advantage of.

Chris Bousquet:

And I think that a lot of it really has to do with reinvesting in the candidates.

Chris Bousquet:

So you'd be surprised how far things like, you know, mental

Chris Bousquet:

health and appreciation go.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, a lot of these bigger companies are investing in you know,

Chris Bousquet:

tools company wide, whether that be meditation and or wellness apps.

Chris Bousquet:

A lot of companies are paying or offering gym memberships.

Chris Bousquet:

. And then I think on the job, you know, continued education and learning

Chris Bousquet:

and development is really important because it shows the investment and

Chris Bousquet:

it gives the candidate the opportunity to, to, you know, to have a long

Chris Bousquet:

term career with that company.

Chris Bousquet:

And you know, it, it's obviously additional investment.

Chris Bousquet:

And every once in a while I see candidates that say, Hey, rather than investing,

Chris Bousquet:

you know, 20 grand in wisetail or learning development program, why don't

Chris Bousquet:

you just pay everybody a little more?

Chris Bousquet:

And again, that's, that's really you know, that's the, the paradox.

Chris Bousquet:

That's, that's the, you know, it's, it's, it's the fine line to walk, you know?

Chris Bousquet:

But I think that there's some really great programs out there.

Chris Bousquet:

Jim, you know, you've told Adam and I about Clients that you have that are

Chris Bousquet:

you know, offering home clean services and or, you know, laundry services.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that, you know, no idea is a bad idea and clients are getting

Chris Bousquet:

more and more creative in their offerings and candidates are getting

Chris Bousquet:

more and more creative in their

Jim Taylor:

asks.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

And really cool.

Jim Taylor:

And just on that note that we were having some discussion about the other

Jim Taylor:

day in some of the urban markets where, The pandemic forced people to either

Jim Taylor:

move out of the downtown cores or at least explore out of the downtown cores.

Jim Taylor:

But so many people who live in some of these buildings and, you know, apartment

Jim Taylor:

towers and stuff, don't have a vehicle.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

There was, there's a, actually a restaurant group in Vancouver where I

Jim Taylor:

live that is buying, if you, if you get hired on as a manager, they buy you a.

Jim Taylor:

. Wow.

Jim Taylor:

If you don't own one so that you can have flexibility on your time off to,

Jim Taylor:

you know, go and explore and do things.

Jim Taylor:

And I was talking to one of the guys, he goes, Yeah, you'll never believe it.

Jim Taylor:

On my first day they gave me a laptop and a the keys to my new truck

Jim Taylor:

and they basically calculated it.

Jim Taylor:

It was, you know, pay $5 more an hour or $10 more an hour, or, you

Jim Taylor:

know, lease a vehicle for somebody.

Jim Taylor:

You know, that kind of thing.

Jim Taylor:

But it's, yeah, just outside the box stuff.

Jim Taylor:

It's cool to see what's going on.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Chris Bousquet:

Unreal.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

You know, we're getting, we're

Chris Bousquet:

getting too close.

Chris Bousquet:

I know.

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah, I know.

Chris Bousquet:

We are.

Adam Lamb:

And we're getting close to our time.

Adam Lamb:

And so, Chris, again, if you had three things, if you had a company client

Adam Lamb:

that was actually open to some coaching and you would wanted to give them kind

Adam Lamb:

of three bullet points that you think are most important based upon your

Adam Lamb:

interaction with the applicants that.

Adam Lamb:

Working with right now, what would be the top three things that a

Adam Lamb:

company could do or present that would probably most effectively

Adam Lamb:

attract the right candidate for them?

Chris Bousquet:

Yeah, thanks for asking.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that, you know, as we alluded to earlier, really considering how

Chris Bousquet:

remote or hybrid scenarios could possibly play into the role regardless.

Chris Bousquet:

And I know it's really hard with operations, but there's, you know,

Chris Bousquet:

there's ways to think about it and I'm sure that the the payoff would, would

Chris Bousquet:

be worth the return on investment.

Chris Bousquet:

I think that again, Re, you know, thinking through, if one doesn't

Chris Bousquet:

already have, or rethinking if they do, again, the, the mission and values and.

Chris Bousquet:

You know, stating that and having that be abundantly apparent and available so that

Chris Bousquet:

people can have an idea of the type of company that they're getting involved in.

Chris Bousquet:

And then possibly, you know, I'm trying not to rank these, but possibly the

Chris Bousquet:

biggest impact would be to consider how these clients can reduce the

Chris Bousquet:

interview timeline or steps to hire good candidates are being hired.

Chris Bousquet:

Quickly and a, you know, a long drawn out process only exacerbates that.

Chris Bousquet:

And when they get another interview process that's quicker and a

Chris Bousquet:

quicker offer, they are, you know, they're, they're signing up and,

Chris Bousquet:

and kudos to them for doing so.

Chris Bousquet:

So, Take advantage of technology, maybe have the first interview,

Chris Bousquet:

you know, like this you know, maybe have a second interview right

Chris Bousquet:

away, or, or in person, you know, if, if necessary, and if possible.

Chris Bousquet:

And then three you know, again, I know that we're all busy and things are,

Chris Bousquet:

make it tough, but maybe have a a, a work it into one's calendar, you know?

Chris Bousquet:

A certain time of day, every day, the week.

Chris Bousquet:

That's just your interview time.

Chris Bousquet:

Mm-hmm.

Chris Bousquet:

, because when these things are getting pushed, we're losing strong candidates.

Adam Lamb:

Chris, thanks very much.

Adam Lamb:

I think all three of those are really, really powerful, especially the last

Adam Lamb:

one, because to be honest, I didn't really consider that, you know that.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

, you know, if you give somebody enough time, that very often there might be

Adam Lamb:

another opportunity that comes their way.

Adam Lamb:

If somebody's looking for you and they wanna work with

Adam Lamb:

you, Chris, how do they do?

Chris Bousquet:

You know, I think the best and most available is connecting

Chris Bousquet:

on LinkedIn, which is as or more powerful than it ever has been before.

Chris Bousquet:

Sure.

Chris Bousquet:

On there, you can have access to my calendar and book a direct

Chris Bousquet:

call with me to connect and explore how we can work together.

Chris Bousquet:

And, you know, traditional email and phone and everything, I'm, I'm always available,

Chris Bousquet:

but I think that that makes it easiest for, for the other, I, it's irrelevant.

Chris Bousquet:

For me, I'm, I'm open, so I think finding on LinkedIn makes it

Chris Bousquet:

easiest for the person that's.

Chris Bousquet:

Thank

Adam Lamb:

you.

Adam Lamb:

Appreciate that.

Adam Lamb:

Appreciate you coming on.

Adam Lamb:

And Jim, any final words for the show?

Adam Lamb:

Well,

Jim Taylor:

it's just, I, I think Chris had some awesome insight, right?

Jim Taylor:

The, the world of hiring is, is different now than it was a couple years ago.

Jim Taylor:

So I, you know, I'm fascinated by the, the applicant tracking stuff.

Jim Taylor:

I didn't even know some of that stuff, so, mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

you know, that's, that's really interesting and, and I agree with you

Jim Taylor:

the speed of the interview process, I.

Jim Taylor:

I remember when I was still in operation, sometimes it took us like

Jim Taylor:

three weeks to hire somebody and it just surprised they still talk to us

Jim Taylor:

at the, you know, through that process.

Jim Taylor:

So yeah.

Jim Taylor:

I think you've got some great insight.

Jim Taylor:

So thanks again Chris.

Chris Bousquet:

Thank you guys.

Chris Bousquet:

Always pleasure talking to you.

Chris Bousquet:

Thank you.

Adam Lamb:

Thank you everybody.

Adam Lamb:

We appreciate you listening to another episode of Turning the Table with

Adam Lamb:

myself, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

Adam Lamb:

And our guest for this episode was Chris Bousquet and we will catch you next week.

Adam Lamb:

Thanks everyone.

Adam Lamb:

Thank

Chris Bousquet:

you.