Today on the podcast I'm talking to Kate Smith from The Makery. Kate set up The Makery in 2009 on a mission to teach the world how to craft. Fast forward 14 years, two books, a Dragon's Den appearance, an internationally distributed product range, and nearly 150, 000 customers having attended her craft workshops and events. 

Covid, Brexit and other challenges led Kate to pivot her business, and she is now dedicating much of her time to helping other creative entrepreneurs achieve their full potential and run successful businesses doing what they love. 

The power of this conversation is that Kate has navigated real highs and real lows in her business. Kate explains how the highs came about via the power of yes, and the mindset tools she needed to navigate the lows and make huge decisions about the direction of her business.

There is so much to take away and I am sure you will be inspired after listening. 

Listen in to hear Kate share:

• An introduction to herself and her business (01:25)
• Why she set up The Makery to run craft workshops (03:31)
• Getting a book deal (05:25)
• Being on Dragon’s Den (05:41)
• Getting a licensing deal for her products and kits (06:32)
• When things go wrong (07:44)
• Pivoting the business online after the pandemic (10:02)
• The realisation that she didn’t need physical premises to run the business (10:58)
• What to do when a major source of income disappears (12:51)
• How to mentally deal with challenges and setbacks in business (15:52)
• Creating products with a licensing deal (17:07)
• The power of saying yes (26:31)
• Why she stopped selling physical kits (27:38)
• How she moved into consultancy and running a team who teach crafting all over the country (28:48)
• Her number one piece of advice for product creators (37:30)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

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Kate Smith Linked In

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

2

This is the podcast for you if

you're getting started selling

3

products, or if you'd like to

create your own product to sell.

4

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert.

5

Every week I share friendly, practical

advice, as well as inspirational

6

stories from small businesses.

7

Let's get started.

8

Hi, today on the podcast, I'm talking

to Kate Smith from The Makery.

9

Kate set up The Makery in 2009 on a

mission to teach the world how to craft.

10

Fast forward 14 years, two books,

a Dragon's Den appearance, an

11

internationally distributed product range,

and nearly 150, 000 customers having

12

attended her craft workshops and events.

13

Kate is now dedicating much of

her time to helping other creative

14

entrepreneurs achieve their full

potential and run successful

15

businesses doing what they love.

16

So, we had a fascinating

conversation, as you can probably

17

guess from that brief intro.

18

Kate, um, has done a lot in the

past, or I can't really think how

19

many years that is, but in the past

couple of years, she's done a lot.

20

She has a lot to share with us, um,

a lot she's learned, and we also talk

21

about what she's doing now to support

other entrepreneurs, and particularly

22

those in creative businesses.

23

So I would love now to

introduce you to Kate.

24

So hi Kate, thank you

so much for being here.

25

Kate Smith: It's my pleasure,

thank you for having me.

26

Vicki Weinberg: Can we start with

you please give an introduction to

27

yourself, your business and what

you're doing right now and then

28

we'll go backwards from there.

29

Kate Smith: Sure, um, so my name is Kate

30

I'm kind of on a mission to teach as many

people how to craft as I possibly could.

31

Um, what I'm doing now is after lots

of things in between, um, there's three

32

pillars really to my business now.

33

So the first thing I spend a lot

of my time doing is consultancy.

34

So I help large, usually quite large

creative businesses, um, achieve

35

whatever goals they want to achieve.

36

So whether it's supporting them

with marketing and their teams,

37

whether it's working on PR, whether

it's helping them do a lot around

38

education, um, all sorts of things.

39

And that's the great thing because I've

had my own business for quite a long time.

40

I can be quite agile with

what I help them with.

41

So that's great fun.

42

Um, I also have a really large, wonderful

team of my I think we're up to about

43

56 now, all amazing crafters dotted

all over the country, and we host lots

44

of creative workshops and events and

team building and things like that.

45

Um, anything from working, doing kind

of creative workshops in retail to

46

hosting team building activities for

all sorts of different companies.

47

So that's brilliant as well.

48

And then I also work with lots of small

creative entrepreneurial businesses,

49

um, and do similarly to what I do with

large businesses, but basically just

50

help them build, um, you know, gain

success through doing what they love.

51

So whether that's, um, one to one

coaching, um, or I also have like

52

a six week course that I wrote and

launched two to three times a year

53

to try and help as many people as

possible, um, yeah, progress their

54

businesses and, and enjoy success.

55

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, thank you

so much for that introduction.

56

And yeah, you, you

definitely do a lot, Kate.

57

And the reason I, I specifically

said, talk about what you do now

58

is because you do such a lot.

59

And I know you've had a really

60

And there's been a lot that

you've done during that time.

61

Some of which of course you've

built on and some of which, um,

62

I guess you're not doing anymore.

63

So do you want to talk a little

bit about this, about the makery

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and the store and the story of it?

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Because I think it's

genuinely really interesting.

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Kate Smith: Um, well, I was working in,

uh, like film, media, TV, advertising,

67

things like that, um, in London

and I loved it, but I just always

68

thought I had my own business in me.

69

So, um, went traveling for a bit, did

lots of brainstorming and everything

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just kept coming back to the fact that

I love, I've always loved crafting and

71

I wanted to teach as many other people

how powerful that can be as well.

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Um, so moved out of Bath, moved

out to Bath out of London, um,

73

and just set up the makery.

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Um, yeah, in 2009, crazy, like about a

few months after we got married and I

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think we got the keys to the business.

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Uh, about 10 weeks before our first child

was born, which is soft in the case of

77

people who are in their own businesses.

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You do everything all at once.

79

Um, so it was crazy

time, but very exciting.

80

Um, yeah, so opened up Makery,

um, had like launched the website

81

and just wanted to teach people.

82

So I was running workshops and, um, a

lot, quite a lot of hen parties as well.

83

And it was great fun.

84

Um, I did a lot of work on my kind of

brand vision at the very beginning.

85

So it was really, really important

to me that I felt, um, current and

86

relevant to quite a mainstream audience.

87

I never wanted to be, um, to just appeal

to crafters and people who, I wanted to

88

just teach as many people as I could.

89

So I worked really hard to

appeal to a broad audience.

90

Um, and thankfully that work paid off.

91

So things happened really quickly.

92

Uh, I think the first thing that happened

was we got, um, a book deal with a

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really lovely high profile publisher.

94

So that was like a dream come true.

95

So I wrote my first crafty book.

96

Um, and then before that was published,

um, we got a phone call from the BBC

97

asking if we wanted to be on Dragon's Den.

98

And I was just at that point

saying yes to everything.

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So said yes to that.

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Because I thought that would be

incredible PR, um, which it was.

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So that was a big thing.

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And then I think the night after that

got published, um, was on TV, the first

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book got launched, which was funny.

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So that just sold out on Amazon,

which was a bit of a surprise.

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My web company told me off for

not warning them about that.

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Um, and then off the back of that.

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Um, we didn't get

investment, which was fine.

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We didn't particularly go for investment,

um, on Dragon's Den, but we got a lot

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of phone calls after that from companies

wanting to invest or just work with us.

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So we ended up, um, signing a licensing

deal with a company who we worked

111

with for quite a few years, making

a range of Makery kits and products.

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That was amazing.

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Again, a lovely dream come true.

114

Um, and they had amazing distribution.

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So our products were all over the place.

116

So that was brilliant.

117

Um, and throughout all of this time,

I was kind of growing the business

118

as well, kind of on the ground.

119

So we moved premises a couple of times.

120

We also opened a shop.

121

Um, we were doing a lot of hen

parties as well as the workshops.

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So we, um, had a really large premises

in the center of Bath and we'd also

123

started working with other retailers.

124

So we're working with John Lewis

in London and nationally hosting

125

workshops with them in their space.

126

Um, Yeah.

127

So it just kind of grew and grew.

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And then we started doing quite

a lot of B2B stuff as well.

129

So we were doing workshops and

events, not just for people,

130

but also for businesses as well.

131

Um, yeah, that's kind

of, that all happened.

132

Um.

133

Yeah.

134

Vicki Weinberg: Take a breath

now because that's, that's a lot.

135

You've done so much, Kate.

136

Um, and that's, that's why I

think your story is so interesting

137

because I think, you know, since

138

I think it's just really useful

for people to hear that businesses

139

can evolve and change and you

can grow on what you've done.

140

You can also leave things behind

if you decide they're not working.

141

Kate Smith: Exactly.

142

So, so to be honest, it, all, everything

that I did was customer facing was relied

143

on people being in front of people.

144

So when COVID happened,

everything changed for us.

145

Um, there was another big thing that

happened actually prior to that.

146

So actually Brexit had quite a big impact

on the business as well, which I could

147

maybe talk about in a little while,

but COVID was obviously the big thing.

148

So all of a sudden, all of our

activity, pretty much was just

149

ground to a very, very quick halt.

150

Um, and that actually has, I

was, I was deliberating whether

151

to talk about this with you.

152

I don't know if I've mentioned it to you

before, but, um, I so we had issues with

153

an old big building that we'd had, which

I'm definitely not going to go into.

154

But ultimately, um, we were asked to

cover some money for that old building.

155

And I was just like, well, no,

we can't afford to do that.

156

Like all my businesses stops.

157

I'm trying to pivot.

158

So we ended up liquidating the

old business, which is something

159

that was really terrifying.

160

And really, I felt like a

huge failure at the time.

161

I was like, oh my gosh, what

it's all been for nothing.

162

Um, and I went through a small, short

period of, I guess it was grief really.

163

Um, but actually it was, it's made me so

much stronger and I have learned so much

164

from that experience and it's all fine.

165

And I picked myself up and rebuilt it

again, not from scratch because I'd

166

already done loads of the work, but

I was really reassured by everybody.

167

I was working with this.

168

They were like, we're not

working with that business.

169

We're working with you and we

want to continue to work with you.

170

And it was really amazing.

171

And so I wanted to mention that because

often you think you're faced with such

172

challenges and you're working on your own

and you, um, is your, you can be quick

173

to feel like you've just done something

awful, but actually, honestly, it was

174

a really, really amazing experience in

hindsight and it's given me so much.

175

So, um, so yeah, so as a result

of COVID, I completely pivoted the

176

business and then I went online really.

177

And then since then I've built it up

again with the three channels that

178

I talked about at the beginning,

and that's where I am now.

179

So it's changed massively over the years.

180

Um, yeah, but it all feels like it's

been the right thing at the right time.

181

It's funny.

182

Vicki Weinberg: Am I right in

thinking that you don't have

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any physical premises now?

184

Is that correct?

185

Kate Smith: Yeah, that's right.

186

So I just have my office here at home

in the garden, and then I do have

187

another office where I store the...

188

boxes and boxes of stuff that

we need to carry out what we do.

189

Um, and then everything with

all the teams is done online.

190

We, I feel very close to them.

191

It's weird.

192

Some of them I've still probably not

even met, even though I feel like

193

they're some of my best friends.

194

It's really funny, but that's, I guess,

a legacy of COVID as well, isn't it?

195

Like everybody's very comfortable

talking on video calls and things.

196

So yeah, no, no physical premises now.

197

Vicki Weinberg: Was that a result of

COVID or had that happened prior to that?

198

Kate Smith: Actually, it's funny.

199

So it had kind of happened

prior to that, really.

200

Um, so I was paying all this

money, ridiculous amounts of

201

money for these premises in Bath.

202

And it's a really, it's, it's, um, it's

quite a heavy weight to bear, especially

203

when you're in a, you know, UNESCO

city and all the buildings are listed.

204

And, um, and it was very, very expensive.

205

And I was.

206

Also, at the same time, hosting workshops

in John Lewis on Oxford Street and not

207

paying any rent and thinking, oh, hang

on a minute, I need to think about

208

this in a bit more of a clever way.

209

Retailers are really desperate to drive

people, the right people into store

210

to spend time and have an experience.

211

And whilst they're there, they always

spend more money on other things because

212

they're having a really nice time.

213

So I, um, walked away from all the

premises and I just started working with

214

retailers, um, all around the country

and all different sorts of businesses

215

and just helping them and helping me.

216

And it's, yeah, so, so that's how we've

operated since, or golly, I don't know

217

when, probably about 2018, I think.

218

Yeah.

219

Vicki Weinberg: That was

actually quite good timing then.

220

Kate Smith: Oh yeah.

221

Tell me about it.

222

I know.

223

Vicki Weinberg: I guess otherwise

you could have been in position,

224

perhaps paying rent on a building

that you couldn't use for.

225

Kate Smith: Yeah.

226

No, we, we, something dramatic

would have had to have happened.

227

So yeah, you know, as long

as you work hard and you're

228

sensible and do your research.

229

I do, I'm a firm believer that

things work out for the best.

230

Um, you know.

231

Yeah.

232

Yeah.

233

Vicki Weinberg: Before we move on,

let's talk about the other challenge you

234

touched on a moment ago, which is Brexit.

235

So let's um, let's get all

the challenges out of the way.

236

Kate Smith: Yeah.

237

So that was, um, so up until then, 2016,

most of our income was hen parties.

238

Um, so we had this big, like five story

building in the center of Bath and

239

we were hosting loads of workshops.

240

We also had a licensing deal, so we

had income from our product range,

241

um, and various other little things

as well, but the bulk was hen party.

242

So we were doing, I think we

were turning over up to like £30,

243

000 a month just in hen parties.

244

So it was really good, of course, busy.

245

Um, and then all of a sudden Brexit

happened and I hadn't thought about

246

this at all, but people just stopped

making big, important life decisions.

247

Things came to a bit of a standstill

in kind of wedding y hen party

248

type, or they stopped spending

money on those kinds of experiences.

249

And it just pretty much stopped

dead, which was a real shock to me.

250

So I always knew that I needed to not

rely just on one channel for the business.

251

And I tried to spread things out as much

as I could, but hen parties was definitely

252

the, um, the main source of income.

253

So for that to stop all of

a sudden was quite scary.

254

Um, and we did pivot, we

did change and it was okay.

255

Um, and actually, do you know what?

256

Doing hen parties was probably my least

favorite aspect of what we did as well.

257

I mean, I did love it.

258

It was really great because you

had people come in and they weren't

259

expecting to learn a new crafty skill

and they go away really delighted,

260

but it wasn't the same experience

as having somebody coming in really,

261

really wanting to learn a new skill.

262

You know.

263

It was a different experience.

264

Um, so yeah, so when that went from

about up to about 30, 000 pounds a

265

month down to, I think, an average

of four, I was like, whoa, the

266

reason I've got this huge building

is to accommodate all of these hens.

267

What am I going to do?

268

So that's the reason we left

the building and we started

269

to change the business model.

270

Um, because this unexpected thing

happened to the nation and it

271

actually affected us as well.

272

It was funny.

273

Like, yeah, it was, it was

scary, but it was okay.

274

Because we had other pillars to build on.

275

So yeah, I'd say they've been the

two biggest, um, shocks to us.

276

Vicki Weinberg: Well, thank

you for sharing those.

277

And the reason I wanted to ask that, um,

really generally, thank you for sharing,

278

is just to kind of reiterate what we were

saying before that, that especially the

279

longer you're in business, I think the

more likely you are to come up against

280

things that challenge you or kind of

set you off on a different course.

281

Um, and it's really interesting to hear

how you've overcome that and how your

282

business has changed as a result of that.

283

And I think that's really reassuring.

284

And actually I say the longer you're

in business, I guess, you know, for

285

lots of us, it happens sooner as well.

286

Um, you can't really tell

when these things are coming.

287

Kate Smith: Yeah, I mean, I am.

288

Um, and I know that a lot of what if

you're entrepreneurial, you're kind of

289

that way inclined as anyway, you kind

of, you'll want your solution driven.

290

So you'll want to find a way around

a problem that you're faced with.

291

Um, and I do relish that sometimes, but

obviously, if it's a really huge issue,

292

then it takes a bit more out of you, but I

honestly, every single time something like

293

that has happened to me or the business,

I have, you, that's the best way to learn.

294

If you're out so far of your comfort zone

and you're pushed to the very limits.

295

It's, it's a learning experience like

no other, you know, no one wants to

296

really just kind of plod on and do

the same thing day in day out and

297

not push themselves and not learn

and not expand what they're doing.

298

And, and it's not fun at the

time when these challenges

299

happen, but, um, oh my goodness.

300

Yeah.

301

I'm, I'm so much stronger and I'm

better at what I do, I think now and

302

more able to work with other people

because we've definitely, I've been

303

very, very low at times when these

things have happened and you know, yeah.

304

Vicki Weinberg: Well thank

you for sharing all of that.

305

And I'd like to change the subject

slightly if that's okay, talk a

306

little bit about your craft kits

because you mentioned those earlier.

307

Um, so obviously that was a, they, they're

a physical product that you were selling.

308

Um, do you want to tell us a little

bit about how they came about?

309

Kate Smith: Yeah.

310

So it was kind of a natural

progression, really.

311

Um, I had a shop and I was

teaching people how to craft.

312

So I was like, I should make kits

so that I can sell those in the shop

313

that people can purchase as well.

314

So I started doing it myself,

literally on the kitchen table.

315

I've got visions of having a little

production line set up on the kitchen

316

table, putting the kits together.

317

And then we got the phone call

from Dragon's Den asking to go on.

318

And I was like, oh, perfect.

319

I can go on with the kits and say,

and that, that would be a really nice,

320

neat thing to ask for investment for.

321

And actually it would, it's valid as well.

322

I'd love for these kits to

be sold all over the place.

323

So it was really nice timing.

324

Um, so I went on with these kits.

325

They looked lovely.

326

A designer friend of ours put these

really nice packages together.

327

Um, so I think we had a range of

about six or something and we were

328

selling them in the shop, but it

was all very much done in house.

329

Um, yes, we went on Dragon's Den,

which is literally one of the most

330

terrifying experiences of my whole life.

331

Um, but great as well.

332

Um, and they, yeah, so we were talking

about the kits and it was really lovely.

333

And then it literally, the

Monday after that was on air.

334

Yeah.

335

The phone just didn't stop ringing.

336

It was really exciting.

337

And lots of people just asking

if they could work with us.

338

And one of the companies was a

really lovely company local to us.

339

They were just on the same

street actually, although

340

I didn't really know them.

341

Um, and so we decided to go with them.

342

And the reason we went with them was

because what I talked about earlier

343

with having a really strong, strong

direction and vision for the brand and

344

knowing that I wanted my kids to be in

John Lewis and anthropology and garden

345

centers and all different sorts of places.

346

I didn't want them just to be in, you

know, Kate's crafty craft shop, wherever,

347

you know, I wanted them to be mainstream.

348

Um, and I wanted to try and get as many

people to love crafting as much as I do.

349

So that's the reason I went with this

company, which was called, I don't

350

think they exist anymore, but they

were called wild and wealth because

351

they were very much design led.

352

So everything that they worked

from looked beautiful and they had

353

incredible distribution as well.

354

So it meant that they could

quite easily get our kits into

355

all the right types of places.

356

So it was a really good way of going

about things because they had all this

357

amazing expertise and infrastructure

to put these kits together for us.

358

And we, um, and it was a licensing deal.

359

So we got royalties for every

single kit that they sold.

360

And because their volumes were big.

361

Um, I don't know how many retailers

they sold the kits in, but it

362

was thousands internationally.

363

Um, it meant that it was a really

good way of us achieving that goal.

364

Um, yeah, it was brilliant.

365

It was really good fun.

366

Um, and it didn't last forever.

367

Like it was probably lasted

about five or six years, I think.

368

Um, But that felt right.

369

It felt like the right time to stop that.

370

We'd kind of got the kits out there then.

371

And yeah, it was, it was great.

372

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

373

And that's really interesting.

374

It's a really interesting way.

375

So what these companies say, they,

do they put their, I'm trying to work

376

out what you would even call them.

377

So did they, they put the kits together?

378

And.

379

Kate Smith: Yeah, so they worked with,

so we were the only kind of unknown

380

brand that they worked with really.

381

So usually, let me try and think.

382

So they worked with like Orla Kieley

and um, like Scrabble, I think maybe

383

Paddington, like very big brands.

384

Um, and they would design and

make the products that you sell.

385

The v n a, that was a nice

one that they worked with.

386

The products that, those brands, that

had, that tho those brands, you know,

387

images or branding on or whatever.

388

Um, and so they, I think we were helped by

the fact that we were on the same street

389

as them and that we had, um, this vision.

390

We already had a really nice,

really nice brand guidelines.

391

The logo is really lovely.

392

It was really fun and there

was definitely an appetite.

393

So that was, that was

394

So back then crafting

wasn't as big as it is now.

395

It was before, certainly no sewing

bee on telly or anything like that.

396

It wasn't, it was, it was

more fusty than it is now.

397

There were slightly more, yeah, like fusty

kind of connotations just with craft.

398

So, um, but they could see that

there was an appetite for it.

399

So that's why they took

a bit of a punt on us.

400

Um, and we were delighted

that they did that.

401

So yeah, so what they did

was I would work with them.

402

So I would come up with ideas of

kits that I thought would do well.

403

Um, and it wasn't just kits.

404

It was things like our own branded pots of

pins and buttons and sewing scissors and

405

ribbons and on these lovely wooden spools

with like our logo burnt into the top.

406

It was really nice stuff.

407

Um, so I would come up with ideas around

products that I think would do well.

408

They would put that through their

department of, um, you know, product

409

experts and see if what they agreed that

they could put a range together for.

410

So there was usually like a bit

of a theme with each launch.

411

Um, and then so whether it was more

kind of like making your own fashion

412

accessories one time, whatever.

413

Um, and then they would obviously

do all the work with their factories

414

and find out if they could get

all of this, the supplies for

415

it, then they would design it.

416

So I had sign off on

absolutely everything.

417

It was so exciting.

418

So every week I'd get like a new

box with maybe different colours

419

of ribbon, sign off and things.

420

So I just got all the fun jobs.

421

Um, and they did all the work using all

of their, all of their infrastructure.

422

And then, um, yeah.

423

And then they'd launch them and

we'd start getting royalty checks.

424

So it worked really, really well for us.

425

Doesn't work for everybody with that

way, but it, I was really, it really

426

delighted with how that deal worked out.

427

It was brilliant.

428

Yeah.

429

It got us a lot of exposure as well.

430

It kind of pushed us onto the next level

because the distribution was so good.

431

We were, we were in a lot of places.

432

Vicki Weinberg: That was a licensing deal.

433

Is that correct?

434

Kate Smith: Yes, exactly right.

435

Yeah.

436

Yeah.

437

I get, I forget who's the

licensee and who's the licensor,

438

but we are one or the other.

439

And they're the other one.

440

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting

though, because I haven't spoken

441

to anyone who's, he's, who launched

a product in that way, so that's

442

really interesting to hear about.

443

Kate Smith: It was, to be honest,

it was the only way that, we'd never

444

have been able to achieve that scale.

445

So the amount of money that was

tied up in stock, we couldn't

446

have spent that kind of money.

447

Um, whereas they did, they had that clout.

448

Um, and also the di the economies of

scale with them purchasing and the

449

volumes that they were purchasing meant

that the price points were much better.

450

So, um, I could never, I, I'd have

carried on doing the kits and I might

451

have managed to brand up some little

pots of pins and things, but it would

452

have never have been as profitable and

as large scale as it was with them.

453

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that makes sense.

454

When you were talking about some of the

items, I was thinking, so things like

455

the ribbon and pins and things like

that, I don't know what the margins are

456

like, but I imagine if you're sourcing

as an individual that they're not going

457

to be great if you know, realistically.

458

So it sounds like because they had that

economy of scale, that everything was

459

just much more manageable, because I

think that there might've been products,

460

had you been doing this yourself

where you just said, actually, that

461

isn't feasible for the effort or the

money or whatever it's going to take.

462

Actually, that's not a feasible

product for me to sell.

463

So it sounds like such

a big range as well.

464

Kate Smith: So yeah, when you're

doing everything yourself, you have

465

to question every product don't you.

466

Is this viable?

467

Am I going to make money from it?

468

Am I spending too much money

on just making it look nice?

469

Yeah.

470

Is it, is it viable?

471

Yeah.

472

And I didn't have to make those

kinds of decisions with them.

473

I just decide, I just put ideas

forward as to what I thought

474

would work for us and for them.

475

And then together we came up with,

um, yeah, with, with all this range

476

of product, honestly, it was so like,

you know, walking into Liberty and

477

John Lewis and seeing this display.

478

Oh, I cried so much.

479

So many times when I'd go in and

see things, it was really exciting.

480

Really exciting.

481

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

482

Amazing.

483

I can totally understand.

484

I think that's, yeah.

485

Yeah.

486

That is really exciting.

487

And Yeah.

488

I think it's amazing that, um, how lucky,

you know, that, not lucky, but it's not

489

fortuitous that, you know, you said yes

to the opportunities that came your way

490

that then put you in front of people that

then led to this company contacting you.

491

Because you would speak early

about saying yes to everything.

492

And then I think this is an example where

I guess all those yeses led up to this.

493

Kate Smith: Yeah, that was very much

my mindset at the beginning was I just

494

said yes to everything and there were

plenty of things that I said yes to

495

that I really shouldn't have done,

but I learned quite quickly what was,

496

well, not every time, but what sounded

like a better proposition than others.

497

Yeah.

498

It's funny, but it's, but thinking about

that, so that, so, you know, if you've got

499

somebody who hadn't, whose brand values

are in handmade goods, isn't that kind

500

of licensing sale is never going to work.

501

Whereas for me, it wasn't about,

it was just, I just wanted to get

502

as many people making as possible

and as many people experiencing

503

the joy of making things yourself.

504

So that was the way for me to do it.

505

So it's not right for

everybody, but, um, yeah.

506

It's maybe an option that people don't

think about, but it is sometimes worth it.

507

Vicki Weinberg: I think you're right.

508

And it's about knowing, as you say,

coming back to your brand values and

509

knowing what you're trying to achieve.

510

Kate Smith: Yeah, exactly right.

511

Yeah.

512

So, yeah.

513

Vicki Weinberg: Are you selling any kits

at the moment or did that completely stop?

514

Kate Smith: No, that stopped.

515

You, the odds, every now and then I do

a little, like, because I don't have

516

copies of every single thing that we did.

517

And sometimes I think, oh, that's sad,

I'd like one of those, you know, to give

518

to my grandchildren one day or whatever.

519

It's very crafty.

520

Um, so every now and then I'll

do a little search on eBay

521

and find something and get it.

522

It's so funny.

523

But, um, no, we don't sell

any, I don't do any product,

524

retail product stuff now at all.

525

Actually, it's all service

driven completely for now.

526

You never know.

527

Vicki Weinberg: No, you never, and I get

the feeling that yeah, things will evolve.

528

And if I speak to you again in a couple of

years, I'm sure things will have changed.

529

So that leads on really nicely then.

530

So let's talk a little bit about how

you're using all of this experience and

531

everything that you've done over the years

to support other creative businesses.

532

Kate Smith: Yeah, that it's been

a real, that happened after COVID.

533

And, um, I didn't realize, so I didn't,

I was a bit bruised by everything

534

that happened during COVID and I

didn't, it was important that I just,

535

I took a slightly different tack.

536

Um, and I started getting a

few phone calls and emails from

537

people that I'd worked with.

538

So a lot of people had come, like most

of my team over the years, over those,

539

I don't know, 14 years, whatever, have

been people who, um, like making their

540

own products or, you know, they've got

creative businesses or side hustles or

541

whatever size they might be as well.

542

And they'd come and maybe teach

workshops for me, um, or work

543

in the shop or do whatever.

544

So after COVID, I started getting

phone calls and emails from those types

545

of people saying, oh, can you help?

546

I just feel a bit like I need some

guidance and you, you're further along

547

on the path than what maybe I am.

548

Um, and I was like, yeah,

of course I can help.

549

I would love to help you.

550

And so I realized really quickly

how much joy that now brought me.

551

So I, I'd kind of, um, achieved and

certainly haven't finished achieving,

552

but teaching people how to make things.

553

And now I still do that,

but through the team.

554

So I've got the wonderful team

who teach people craft all

555

over the country every week.

556

Um, but I did feel like I needed

something different myself and that

557

definitely came to me by helping

other creative entrepreneurs, usually

558

female, but not always, um, grow

their own creative businesses as well.

559

And, um, yeah, I, I've

become a bit addicted to it.

560

Actually.

561

I love it.

562

So I do a bit of one to one stuff with

people now and then, um, well, most weeks.

563

Um, and then I also have got a course.

564

So I went on, um, really incredible small

business course about seven years ago,

565

run by Goldman Sachs, um, which was a

really, really great experience for me.

566

And it gave me a lot of confidence

because I just always used to think,

567

oh, people just probably imagine that

I play with glitter all day long.

568

And I definitely don't.

569

Like I'm generally behind my computer

and, you know, spreadsheets and whatever.

570

Um, And, and that made me realize that

my business was just as, um, important

571

as all of their more serious businesses,

ist' what I thought of them as in my head.

572

And so I, um, I thought, you know what,

I could help so many people who might be

573

feeling like that as well with all the

experience, all the ups, all the downs,

574

all the wins, all the losses, um, and just

helped kind of steer them on their way.

575

So yeah, I wrote a course as well.

576

So six week course helping, um,

small businesses, just giving them

577

confidence, getting more clarity

around their branding, around their

578

marketing, maybe what they're working on.

579

Um, and just being a nice pair of ears

or a sounding board for them to bounce

580

ideas off because it can be so isolating

working on your own and not having

581

somebody be your cheerleader or help

motivate you or answer to, you know.

582

Um, so that's kind of how that works

really, which is just, I just love it.

583

I love it so much.

584

Um, and that's, that's what

really motivates me now.

585

So I still love doing all the

other bits of the business too, but

586

that's what brings me the most joy.

587

Seeing other, seeing all of these

lessons that I've learned maybe help

588

some other people gain success as well.

589

It's really so rewarding.

590

Vicki Weinberg: Is that creative

businesses you're working with?

591

Kate Smith: They're pretty

much all, yeah, they are.

592

They're not all crafty.

593

They are mostly crafty, but

there's a couple of other

594

types, but they're all creative.

595

So, um, for example, there's a business

that, um, sells secondhand children's

596

clothes and they are, they happen

to be extremely creative people.

597

So they go about their business

in a very creative way.

598

And our brains are quite similar.

599

Um, and where, but, but most of the

business are creative in some way.

600

So whether it is, oh, golly, all

sorts, people who make things to sell,

601

people who host workshops of their

own, people have like, um, online,

602

uh, crafty retail spaces, um, content

creator, all sorts of different people.

603

Vicki Weinberg: Oh,

that's really interesting.

604

Yeah, it's great.

605

I had thought initially that you

were going to say it was mostly

606

crafters, maybe people who are crafting

and then selling their products.

607

It's really interesting to hear like

the breadth of creative businesses.

608

Kate Smith: Yeah.

609

Yeah, I don't, uh, so what I usually do,

so certainly with the one to one stuff

610

is we have a conversation, a lengthy

conversation, first of all, so that, um, I

611

can understand exactly what direction they

feel like they want to go in and what,

612

where, how they've got to where they are.

613

And then vice versa, they'll almost

be sort of interviewing me really.

614

And if they feel like I'm the

right person for them to work with.

615

So, and usually it's right because

otherwise I think people, if you're

616

out there online, chatting on

Instagram or whatever, they feel like

617

they kind of know you a little bit.

618

So I don't think they'd come to me if

they didn't think we could work together.

619

Um, but with the course.

620

I don't know, obviously, um, when they,

they'll sign up and I don't know at the

621

very beginning what types of business

they are, but it has turned out to be,

622

yeah, quite, there's always a link.

623

It's always creative people.

624

And there's always, there's usually

some kind of link back to craft

625

in some way, but that can take

quite a few different guises.

626

It's interesting.

627

Vicki Weinberg: That's interesting.

628

And I'd love to just get a

little bit of advice on you if

629

that's okay, Kate, to finish.

630

Um, and I know that there's

probably so much you could say here.

631

Um, so, you know, you can, you can share

as little, as much as you want, but what's

632

some advice that you would have for other

creative business owners based on, you

633

know, you've had so much experience with

running creative businesses with products.

634

So I know it's a really wide question.

635

So I'm going to, I'm going to

leave it to you with what you'd

636

like to share, like the key things

you'd like people to take away.

637

Kate Smith: Yeah.

638

Well, I did, I did think long

and hard about the best nugget

639

that I felt I could share.

640

And it's funny, it would probably

be different if you asked me next

641

week to what it is this week.

642

You know, it's funny what's going

on at the moment in your life.

643

But, um, I think it's something that

I've spoken about quite a lot today.

644

And that, so especially if you're

creative, you will never be short of ideas

645

and you'll always think of new things

that you would like to create or chase.

646

Um, and I think there's two lessons there.

647

So firstly, it is of vital importance

that you, um, don't just have

648

one pillar, but don't just rely

on one thing in your business.

649

You've got to have multiple.

650

So I think of it like, say if it was

a table, the table would be really,

651

really wobbly if it just had one leg.

652

And if that leg fell down, it

would just fall over straight away.

653

If it had two legs, or it's still

going to be really, really wobbly.

654

You've got three.

655

Okay.

656

We've got a bit of stability here.

657

Um, if you've got four, great.

658

And you don't want too many.

659

I think four is nice.

660

Um, I've got kind of, I

actually do have four.

661

One, the fourth one is quite

small, but it's still there and

662

I could grow it if I needed to.

663

But, um, as long as you've got multiple

pillars propping your business up, if

664

something goes wrong that you're not

expecting, and that might be something

665

like cost material, cost of materials

suddenly shoots up unexpectedly, or, um, I

666

don't know the subscription or the fees on

some kind of something that you subscribe

667

to suddenly goes up hugely, or it might

be something like Brexit or COVID.

668

Um, but if you've got multiple pillars,

your chance of evolving and pivoting

669

and survival is so much greater.

670

So, um, so it's really, really

important to just not rely on one thing.

671

And also like at the

beginning, I think I was.

672

It was going really well from the start.

673

So I got to, I was probably quite,

um, complacent right at the start.

674

I thought, oh, oh no, it's fine.

675

We're going to be fine.

676

And, um, but no, anything could

happen and you just never know.

677

So that's the first thing, but also.

678

So make sure that each of

those pillars is viable.

679

So again, it's stuff that

we've talked about today.

680

So do your research.

681

Is there an appetite for it?

682

Is it something that is going to drain

your resources in terms of your time,

683

which is your most valuable resource,

um, and, and leave you with no profit at

684

the end of it, or is it something that

you can, um, you can make viable and you

685

can make profitable and you're going,

and it's going, you know, it's going to

686

grow and be of interest to your audience.

687

So just make sure you do that

research at the start before you've

688

maybe worn yourself out making

something and invested in something.

689

Um, uh, so yeah, so multiple

pillars . And make sure they're

690

all, you can trust them all.

691

That's my best advice for today.

692

Vicki Weinberg: That's really good advice.

693

Thank you.

694

And I'm sure that advice you'd

have tomorrow would be really good

695

as well, because you're right.

696

I think what I, I feel this most people

I speak to, I think depending what's

697

going on in your life and your business

now, that's kind of what comes up.

698

Kate Smith: Yeah.

699

I do.

700

It's funny.

701

It's always, yes, you're

influenced by everything going

702

on around you, aren't you?

703

Or what might have happened, a

win or a loss that might have

704

happened that day or whatever.

705

Um, but yeah, that's today's advice.

706

Vicki Weinberg: That's really good advice.

707

Thank you so much, Kate.

708

And thank you for

everything you've shared.

709

Kate Smith: Oh, thank you.

710

It's lovely chatting to you.

711

Hopefully, um, people find it useful

and enjoy the story a little bit.

712

Vicki Weinberg: I'm sure they will.

713

Thank you.

714

Kate Smith: Pleasure.

715

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you

so much for listening right

716

to the end of this episode.

717

Do remember that you can get the

full back catalogue and lots of free

718

resources on my website vickiweinberg.

719

com.

720

Please do remember to rate and review

this episode if you've enjoyed it

721

and also share it with a friend

who you think might find it useful.

722

Thank you again and see you next week.