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Following Jesus with a Busy Life
Episode 69th November 2021 • Everyday Disciples • St Matthew, Grand Rapids
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Busyness has been a big deal for a long time, but even in the midst of a pandemic when things were shut down, many people were eager to get busy again. Today, we sit down with Pastor Matthew, Aidan Hunt, and Stephanie Sherman to talk about the impact that chronic busyness has on our life and our faith.

In the second part, we look beyond being busy to some practices and tools that can help us, even in the midst of our busyness. It may not be going away anytime soon and we might be in a season of life where busyness is just how it has to be, but we can still find ways to grow in our faith as we follow Jesus as everyday disciples.

As always, if there's a topic you'd like to hear us talk about or a question you have, reach out to us at media@stmatthewgr.com.

Transcripts

Matthew Starner:

Welcome once again to another episode of

Matthew Starner:

everyday disciples where we strive to follow Jesus wherever

Matthew Starner:

we are. I'm Pastor Matthew Starner, I'm so glad that you're

Matthew Starner:

with us today. And glad that you're joining us for what I

Matthew Starner:

hope will be a very fruitful conversation for you. As we talk

Matthew Starner:

today about being busy, in our world, that's something that is

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something of a pandemic going on for quite a long time much

Matthew Starner:

longer than the COVID pandemic. And I sit down today with Aiden

Matthew Starner:

hunt, and Stephanie Sherman here, the student ministry team,

Matthew Starner:

to talk about this whole problem of busyness. In our first

Matthew Starner:

segment, we'll we'll look at the problem side of that, and what

Matthew Starner:

that does to us spiritually as we struggle with busyness in our

Matthew Starner:

lives. And then in our second part, we'll look at some

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remedies for that busyness. Not that we can make it go away, but

Matthew Starner:

some ways that we can bring some peace, some Sabbath and clear

Matthew Starner:

some margin in our lives. I know as I went through this

Matthew Starner:

conversation with them, it was a very fruitful conversation. I

Matthew Starner:

hope it is for you, too. So listen in. And let's explore

Matthew Starner:

this conversation together.

Matthew Starner:

Welcome back, and I'm joined today with Stephanie Sherman and

Matthew Starner:

Aiden hunt, here to talk about the problem of busyness. That's

Matthew Starner:

something that's a bit of a, I guess, you could say, pandemic

Matthew Starner:

in our world. Today. We're familiar with that word and what

Matthew Starner:

it means. Certainly in our culture, and in our corner of

Matthew Starner:

the world, here in Michigan, busyness is a bit of a problem,

Matthew Starner:

right? I mean, we you guys both work in student ministry. So you

Matthew Starner:

guys see families, often at the points where they are the most

Matthew Starner:

busy. kids in sports kids in all sorts of activities, parents

Matthew Starner:

involved in lots of different things and running every which

Matthew Starner:

way. Where does that? Where does that come from? The need to be

Matthew Starner:

busy?

Stephanie Sherman:

That's a big question. Yeah,

Aidan Hunt:

I think part of sin entering the world is our human

Aidan Hunt:

bend, to try to fill our time with all of the things that we

Aidan Hunt:

think are going to lead to greater fulfillment, and success

Aidan Hunt:

and glory, that is ours and not gods, I think busyness and

Aidan Hunt:

hurry, and you know, the grind, or the hustle, whatever you want

Aidan Hunt:

to call, it is just kind of a result of our culture in our

Aidan Hunt:

world. thunnus Like, you need to do all the things, and you need

Aidan Hunt:

to make all of them money or accumulate all the wealth and

Aidan Hunt:

the possessions you can, because that will lead to greater

Aidan Hunt:

fulfillment, and not, you know, some kind of some version of

Aidan Hunt:

rest or have, you know, hands off submission to something

Aidan Hunt:

else, and not having to depend so fully on your own, you know,

Aidan Hunt:

accomplishment and your own effort.

Matthew Starner:

So we're busy for ourselves.

Aidan Hunt:

I think so. Yeah.

Stephanie Sherman:

I think also, there's so many opportunities

Stephanie Sherman:

now. Right? So and they're all fun. And we as people don't like

Stephanie Sherman:

to miss out on things that are fun. So it's not even maybe an

Stephanie Sherman:

intention to try to be too busy. But you know, somebody invites

Stephanie Sherman:

you to go do something that sounds fun. Let's do that. And

Stephanie Sherman:

then I have sports that I enjoy doing. So I want to do that. And

Stephanie Sherman:

then I also enjoy music. So I wanted to go to this lesson. And

Stephanie Sherman:

I think that it just ends up all piling up into a lot of stuff

Stephanie Sherman:

without you even realizing that has happened to you to your

Stephanie Sherman:

family to your kids. All good things. And it's hard to say no.

Stephanie Sherman:

And when do you end up saying no to?

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, yeah, I think Stephanie makes an excellent

Aidan Hunt:

point, the issue we have with busyness is not that we're

Aidan Hunt:

saying no to bad things because I think we're pretty good at

Aidan Hunt:

doing that. I think it's we're bad at saying no to so many good

Aidan Hunt:

things, right? That our schedules are so packed and so

Aidan Hunt:

full that there's no longer any room for for any kind of rest or

Aidan Hunt:

any kind of relief from the Go Coco Coco, of our culture and of

Aidan Hunt:

our world.

Stephanie Sherman:

When I think right, it used to be family

Stephanie Sherman:

time, right? You're all doing the same thing together. And now

Stephanie Sherman:

no one does all the same things together. So you know, even when

Stephanie Sherman:

I was in school, there were no travel sports in middle school

Stephanie Sherman:

and an elementary school you played on Saturday morning for

Stephanie Sherman:

fun you and got ice cream and you're done for the week. And

Stephanie Sherman:

now everything is travel this and travel that and if you're

Stephanie Sherman:

not in it from the age of six, then your kid won't play on

Stephanie Sherman:

varsity whatever that they want to be on. And that's the fear

Stephanie Sherman:

that been installed, I think in two families as well. And

Stephanie Sherman:

intentionally or unintentionally, but I mean,

Stephanie Sherman:

that's how you market it to make money for the travel sports

Stephanie Sherman:

teams, they have to make you feel like you have to do it so

Stephanie Sherman:

that you will spend your money on it. And for the trainer,

Stephanie Sherman:

because just the practices and enough you have to pay for the

Stephanie Sherman:

extra training time on top of it. And when you have three kids

Stephanie Sherman:

or four kids or even two kids, in their individual sporting

Stephanie Sherman:

things in their individual directions, and then parents who

Stephanie Sherman:

have jobs and God forbid a life too.

Matthew Starner:

But all is there even room for a life

Matthew Starner:

anymore.

Stephanie Sherman:

There is not a night when you have children,

Stephanie Sherman:

your life is just Yeah, shuttling them and back and

Stephanie Sherman:

forth to what they're doing so

Matthew Starner:

well, it's funny, you know, the kind of

Matthew Starner:

the, the social experiment that we all got to go through last

Matthew Starner:

year at the start of COVID. When like everything, everything shut

Matthew Starner:

down for a minute. And especially for the first what

Matthew Starner:

couple months or so were like nothing was happening at all.

Matthew Starner:

Everybody kind of like slammed on the brakes, right? We went

Matthew Starner:

from being so busy to suddenly having free time. Even though we

Matthew Starner:

were trapped at home, we had you know this this time that we

Matthew Starner:

hadn't had before. The I don't know about you guys, what you

Matthew Starner:

guys saw in that time. I know I kind of saw some folks who

Matthew Starner:

always sort of had that schedule just packed to the brim. And

Matthew Starner:

what I'm even almost have that like, oh man wish we had that

Matthew Starner:

free time sort of mentality to then suddenly have that free

Matthew Starner:

time. And then it was like, Oh, we don't want this free time.

Matthew Starner:

Like can we get back to being busy again? Because suddenly

Matthew Starner:

we're

Aidan Hunt:

we're stuck with our own thoughts. Right? Silence,

Aidan Hunt:

right? God forbid somebody would be quote, unquote, bored for

Aidan Hunt:

five minutes. Right? Exactly. Yeah,

Matthew Starner:

were you almost it almost kind of came to be

Matthew Starner:

like that busyness was a way of medicating or kind of numbing.

Matthew Starner:

Whatever was going on in life, we could just hide it by being

Matthew Starner:

busy. And I don't know how prevalent that is in our

Matthew Starner:

society. If that's like a widespread thing. You know, I'm

Matthew Starner:

not as involved in like Family Ministries and stuff like you

Matthew Starner:

guys aren't to see that a little closer level. But I'm sure that

Matthew Starner:

has to be happening. To some degree, you know, that busyness

Matthew Starner:

is just simply a way of distracting ourselves from

Matthew Starner:

thinking about what's really going on in our life?

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, well, I think even this is an issue that we we

Aidan Hunt:

see in our whole world on a greater scale. But it's also

Aidan Hunt:

pretty, I think, very prevalent in, in Christian circles and in

Aidan Hunt:

the church. Where we, we think we have this mindset where if

Aidan Hunt:

something isn't inherently sinful, therefore it's not bad.

Aidan Hunt:

But like we said, like a lot of people's schedules being packed

Aidan Hunt:

in them being so busy, it's totally not really a sin, but it

Aidan Hunt:

is unhealthy. Right, there's this great quote from a book I

Aidan Hunt:

highly recommend that everybody reads, it's called the real, the

Aidan Hunt:

ruthless elimination of hurry by John Mark comer. And he got the

Aidan Hunt:

the title of the book from this quote, that John Ortberg gave

Aidan Hunt:

him where Ortberg says, hurry is the great enemy of spiritual

Aidan Hunt:

life in our day, you must ruthlessly eliminate hurry from

Aidan Hunt:

your life. Because it's in those moments where we are so hurried

Aidan Hunt:

are so busy, that oftentimes, the first thing to kind of fall

Aidan Hunt:

to the wayside is our faith in the way that we are predicating

Aidan Hunt:

everything that we do, based on the way of Jesus and the life,

Aidan Hunt:

that we live as followers. And so I think in order to get a

Aidan Hunt:

better hold on our spiritual life, and, you know, trying to

Aidan Hunt:

do everything we can not to prevent our faith from decaying,

Aidan Hunt:

but to actually pursue our faith in a way that is fruitful, and

Aidan Hunt:

that we have a deep desire for a, you know, are longing to know

Aidan Hunt:

God deeper, in a really healthy way. I think we need to start by

Aidan Hunt:

prioritizing our time in our scheduling. A lot of that is not

Aidan Hunt:

not even so much how are we are spending our time in God's word?

Aidan Hunt:

How are we spending our time worshiping him? Like how are we

Aidan Hunt:

spending our free moments? And are we doing so in a way that is

Aidan Hunt:

like leading us to rest and leading us to renewal?

Matthew Starner:

And well, maybe before we get to that stuff? I

Matthew Starner:

did get kind of my next question was kind of to explore just a

Matthew Starner:

little bit. You know, the, we talked about just the image or,

Matthew Starner:

you know, maybe we recognize the impact of that busyness maybe

Matthew Starner:

has on our relationships that it has on our family life. You

Matthew Starner:

know, people don't eat dinner together like they used to, and,

Matthew Starner:

you know, we're coming and going in all different directions, and

Matthew Starner:

we're not always together as a family. I think we those are

Matthew Starner:

easy to see and easy to recognize. But what about the

Matthew Starner:

spiritual aspect of being busy? You know, what, what does that

Matthew Starner:

busyness, chronic busyness have on our spiritual life, our

Matthew Starner:

spiritual health. Have you guys seen that in? In youth and

Matthew Starner:

families that you guys have worked with?

Stephanie Sherman:

Well, I think part of it is when you're

Stephanie Sherman:

chronically busy, really the only person you're thinking

Stephanie Sherman:

about is yourself all the time. So that's all you have room to

Stephanie Sherman:

think about is what is my next thing I have to get to? And when

Stephanie Sherman:

do I have time to do my homework? You know, thinking

Stephanie Sherman:

from the youths perspective and excuse me. So just I was

Stephanie Sherman:

thinking back to your question, or when we talking about COVID,

Stephanie Sherman:

right, and when that hits and how much I think all the

Stephanie Sherman:

students really did enjoy that time for a while, because they

Stephanie Sherman:

did have time to decompress. And as they started to miss things,

Stephanie Sherman:

like friends, I mean, that was the really the main thing I

Stephanie Sherman:

heard them. Complaining about was missing their time with

Stephanie Sherman:

their friends, trying to learn online was super tough for them.

Stephanie Sherman:

So those connections and those things that were hard for them.

Stephanie Sherman:

And I think that God made us relational. And when you're just

Stephanie Sherman:

busy all the time, you're not really, you're around people,

Stephanie Sherman:

but you're not really relating with them. And so I think that

Stephanie Sherman:

that's one of the negative consequences. I think that

Stephanie Sherman:

happens that you don't really think about that hurting your

Stephanie Sherman:

spiritual health, really. But I think that it does, because it

Stephanie Sherman:

doesn't give you time to then look at other people. Like Jesus

Stephanie Sherman:

would want you to like, what's the need that they might be

Stephanie Sherman:

having right now. And I know even myself, right, good

Stephanie Sherman:

intentions all the time. But the follow through is lacking

Stephanie Sherman:

because you just get too busy moving on to the next thing and

Stephanie Sherman:

that you know, that meal you're going to make for that person or

Stephanie Sherman:

that card you're going to send or whatever it is. We read a

Stephanie Sherman:

book a staff, it's been a few years ago now. It's called

Stephanie Sherman:

margin and just building that margin into your life. And I

Stephanie Sherman:

loved that book, because it was making sure you had that time

Stephanie Sherman:

that margin that free time a little bit to be able to do some

Stephanie Sherman:

of those things that would be what a what a follower of Jesus

Stephanie Sherman:

would be doing.

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, I think I look back to Aiden as a college

Aidan Hunt:

student. And I remember this my sophomore year of college, I was

Aidan Hunt:

quite possibly the busiest human being on the face of the earth.

Aidan Hunt:

I don't want to have to run through my schedule, but I was

Aidan Hunt:

working multiple jobs. I was involved in multiple clubs, and

Aidan Hunt:

I was playing a club sport at Michigan State. And on top of

Aidan Hunt:

being a full time student, I don't remember my sophomore year

Aidan Hunt:

very well. All I do remember is I didn't see my friends very

Aidan Hunt:

much. And I remember saying to them, like, Oh, where are you

Aidan Hunt:

guys? I haven't seen you so long. They're like, Where have

Aidan Hunt:

you been? You know, you don't see ever. And I compare that to

Aidan Hunt:

my senior year of college, which is when COVID happened in our

Aidan Hunt:

remember, like March to April of 20. March to May of 2020. Being

Aidan Hunt:

basically stuck at home with my roommates and our friends

Aidan Hunt:

because we all quarantined together, and those being like

Aidan Hunt:

the most fruitful few months of my relationship with my friends.

Aidan Hunt:

Because yeah, we were forced to spend time together. But we had

Aidan Hunt:

nothing else to really do and focus on other than Let's hang

Aidan Hunt:

out, let's spend time together, let's focus on the relationships

Aidan Hunt:

we're building with each other. How are we lifting each other up

Aidan Hunt:

during this difficult time? Like how are we pouring into each

Aidan Hunt:

other spiritually? Like how are we encouraging each other in our

Aidan Hunt:

walks with Jesus? And those friendships, you know, we all

Aidan Hunt:

live in different cities now after we graduated, but they're

Aidan Hunt:

still so strong because of that time we spent during COVID that

Aidan Hunt:

we and all that to say did there were were there multiple times

Aidan Hunt:

we probably wanted to kill each other. Absolutely. Because we

Aidan Hunt:

were stuck in a in a room together for three months. And

Aidan Hunt:

all we did was play competitive games. And therefore, like,

Aidan Hunt:

tensions got high. And we, you know, there, there were things

Aidan Hunt:

thrown at each other in love, of course. But those relationships

Aidan Hunt:

were able to flourish and prosper. Because of that time we

Aidan Hunt:

had to spend focusing on each other because we weren't busy,

Aidan Hunt:

because we had no other choice but to really, you know, devote

Aidan Hunt:

time to one another to love each other. And like Stephanie said,

Aidan Hunt:

We're relational creatures, like human beings were made. You

Aidan Hunt:

know, in the garden, Adam was alone and it was not good. God

Aidan Hunt:

said so he made him he made a companion other than just the

Aidan Hunt:

fish and the animals and everything.

Matthew Starner:

And probably good to to remember that Adam

Matthew Starner:

and Eve in the garden before the fall, would have had stuff to

Matthew Starner:

do. Oh, yeah. No, God gave them God gave them task. God gave

Matthew Starner:

them a role to play to tend the garden to care

Aidan Hunt:

for it. Yeah, they had vocation. They had jobs and

Aidan Hunt:

jobs are not a result of the fall. Maybe the toil of labor is

Aidan Hunt:

right. Work itself is not and also say things that we flush

Aidan Hunt:

schedule with like are good things like being busy, is just

Aidan Hunt:

an accumulation of good things like we said, but it can lead to

Aidan Hunt:

unhealthy if we put too much emphasis and focus in our time

Aidan Hunt:

on that.

Matthew Starner:

Because Because could Adam and Eve have been

Matthew Starner:

busy before the fall? Potentially right? I mean, at

Matthew Starner:

harvest time in the garden. I mean, there could be a lot to do

Matthew Starner:

all of a sudden.

Aidan Hunt:

The other relationships that Adam Eve had

Aidan Hunt:

in the garden was with God and how Important that relationship

Aidan Hunt:

still was, you know, prior to the fall.

Matthew Starner:

And, you know, the the end of creation, the

Matthew Starner:

final thing that God does is God rests. And he established that

Matthew Starner:

as he establishes that pattern for us. And so maybe as we move

Matthew Starner:

into our next segment here, after a quick little break,

Matthew Starner:

we'll, we'll pick that up about the importance of rest and, and

Matthew Starner:

explore that a little bit how we can do that with some practical

Matthew Starner:

ways.

Matthew Starner:

So we're continuing our conversation here talking about

Matthew Starner:

the problem of busyness and now kind of moving into so what do

Matthew Starner:

we do about this, we're, we're in a busy culture, and that's

Matthew Starner:

not going away anytime soon. The travel sports, the job that fill

Matthew Starner:

up all of our time, none of these things are going away. So

Matthew Starner:

how do we as Christians, as everyday disciples, like we're

Matthew Starner:

trying to do here through this podcast? How do we how do we

Matthew Starner:

balance that? Because we're not saying, at least I think that's

Matthew Starner:

what I heard, right? We're not saying that doing things is bad.

Matthew Starner:

Like, we shouldn't just, you know, wake up and go back to bed

Matthew Starner:

like there's, there's stuff that we can do that that is good for

Matthew Starner:

us to do. But saying yes to something saying no to other

Matthew Starner:

things, maybe as part of that balance. How do we how do we

Matthew Starner:

find that balance? And what does that balance look like?

Aidan Hunt:

I think it's important to look back at the

Aidan Hunt:

creation narrative, and how God on the seventh day rested from

Aidan Hunt:

His creation, and by doing so God delighted in what he has

Aidan Hunt:

made. And that's why the word Eden the Garden of Eden means

Aidan Hunt:

delight. Because it is the creation that God was lighting,

Aidan Hunt:

and that's how God spent his his seventh day is that he delighted

Aidan Hunt:

in creation, He rested, not because he needed to, because

Aidan Hunt:

God doesn't need to rest. But because he chose to,

Matthew Starner:

and he really establishes a pattern first,

Matthew Starner:

then that gets carried forward throughout the narrative of

Matthew Starner:

Scripture. You know, we get that in the 10 commandments to

Matthew Starner:

remember that Sabbath day just well, just to rest and, and then

Matthew Starner:

also to, you know, that in that same part of the narrative, and

Matthew Starner:

when the children of Israel are going through the desert, like,

Matthew Starner:

on the day preceding the Sabbath day, you go out and they're

Matthew Starner:

going to gather all that man on that quail gather enough for the

Matthew Starner:

next day too, so that you can rest that day. And you know,

Matthew Starner:

it's it's a day of rest in preparation for that rest. And

Matthew Starner:

yeah, there's work to do for that.

Aidan Hunt:

And that word Sabbath comes from the Hebrew

Aidan Hunt:

word Shabbat, which means to cease or to stop. So the Sabbath

Aidan Hunt:

for humans, it means to, like they did in, in the Exodus, you

Aidan Hunt:

know, when they were wandering the desert, they still took that

Aidan Hunt:

day to stop to cease any kind of work, and to choose delight as

Aidan Hunt:

what they did that day. And that was an act of worship. Rest is

Aidan Hunt:

worship. That is a, a claim I will hold strongly to and

Aidan Hunt:

Matthew, I know you

Matthew Starner:

it was just because it's funny that like, I

Matthew Starner:

think through time we've we've kind of twisted that a little

Matthew Starner:

bit. I know for me growing up in the Lutheran church reading

Matthew Starner:

Luthers catechism, Small Catechism. The third

Matthew Starner:

commandment, as he explains, it is all about worship, you know,

Matthew Starner:

remembering the Sabbath day to keep it holy. For Luther, in his

Matthew Starner:

day, as he explained it, it was about hearing the Word of God,

Matthew Starner:

it was a, it got kind of, at least in driven into my brain is

Matthew Starner:

like, go to church on Sunday. That's remembering the Sabbath

Matthew Starner:

day, which is, when you read about the Old Testament, the

Matthew Starner:

giving of the law there, that's not what what God says. It's

Matthew Starner:

about remembering that day of rest. He even says, Is it in

Matthew Starner:

Exodus 28, when he's when he's laying those out that you know,

Matthew Starner:

Remember the Sabbath day? Because Because God labored for

Matthew Starner:

six days in creation, and He rested. So you also rest it's

Matthew Starner:

this pattern that he's setting up. And we've kind of forgotten

Matthew Starner:

that. I remember hearing somewhere, I can't remember now,

Matthew Starner:

what source I got this from but about the the original kind of

Matthew Starner:

first Christians as they became went from being Jews to being

Matthew Starner:

Christ followers, that for them, they still celebrated Sabbath on

Matthew Starner:

Saturday, and then worshiped on Sunday. And it was both it

Matthew Starner:

wasn't. We've kind of I think conflated the two and our

Matthew Starner:

Sabbath is going to church. Yeah. I think it'd be really

Matthew Starner:

good to recover that practice of like having a Sabbath day and

Matthew Starner:

going to worship. Yeah, that's two different things. So like

Matthew Starner:

for you guys, what is what is Sabbath look like in people's

Matthew Starner:

lives?

Aidan Hunt:

Today?

Stephanie Sherman:

I think it looks nothing like it's supposed

Stephanie Sherman:

to. I think that's part of the problem is we feel guilt when we

Stephanie Sherman:

rest because there's so many things we feel like we should be

Stephanie Sherman:

doing. I know even in our own family, you know, go to church

Stephanie Sherman:

on Sunday, and then you go home and the intent is to rest And

Stephanie Sherman:

you do that for a while, and all of a sudden you're like, oh,

Stephanie Sherman:

shoot, you know, I know my husband says, Yes, I'm being

Stephanie Sherman:

lazy. And I, you know, I need to get this done. And this done.

Stephanie Sherman:

And this done, because work starts tomorrow, and I won't

Stephanie Sherman:

have time to do it then. And so I think part of it is just

Stephanie Sherman:

giving yourself permission to rest. Right? It's,

Matthew Starner:

we weren't designed to go 24/7, right. And

Matthew Starner:

it's designed to have that down,

Stephanie Sherman:

it's not being lazy, and you do. So I

Stephanie Sherman:

think it needs to start with just giving yourself permission

Stephanie Sherman:

to sit, you know, that was the beautiful thing we talked about,

Stephanie Sherman:

you know, the COVID pandemic and being in lockdown our family,

Stephanie Sherman:

put our hammocks outside, and we laid in the hammocks, and you

Stephanie Sherman:

know, each person different time would have a chance to, you

Stephanie Sherman:

know, run the music, so we would listen to music, and he would

Stephanie Sherman:

read or, or sleep or just enjoy the nature around us. And so I

Stephanie Sherman:

think that that's kind of like delighting in the garden, right?

Stephanie Sherman:

Just delighting in the breeze and the bugs and the birds and

Stephanie Sherman:

all of the stuff that's around you. So just during COVID You

Stephanie Sherman:

You didn't feel guilty because there's nothing else to do,

Stephanie Sherman:

right. And so we need to try and in our mindset get back to that

Stephanie Sherman:

of I don't need to feel guilty for taking a day to enjoy God's

Stephanie Sherman:

creation and, and be with my family in doing nothing.

Aidan Hunt:

And I think a lot of people might think, oh, on the

Aidan Hunt:

Sabbath day, I don't go to work. And therefore, you know, if it's

Aidan Hunt:

on your Saturday or Sundays, okay, I go to church, and then I

Aidan Hunt:

mow the lawn, and I still go to soccer practice and do

Aidan Hunt:

groceries. And it's like no, SAP is supposed to be for all

Aidan Hunt:

ceasing from any kind of labor or unstopping from any kind of

Aidan Hunt:

work and you just rest. And that's easier said than done.

Aidan Hunt:

And I understand that and we're not all not perfect. I

Aidan Hunt:

definitely am not, it's been easier for me in some seasons of

Aidan Hunt:

my of my life to to Sabbath regularly and to do it for a

Aidan Hunt:

full 24 hours. And there have been times where I'm like, Okay,

Aidan Hunt:

no, I only have time really realistically to Sabbath for 12

Aidan Hunt:

hours. This, you know, on a Tuesday instead of on a Saturday

Aidan Hunt:

or Sunday. I think that's the other thing is like give

Aidan Hunt:

yourself grace in trying to, you know, establish rhythms and of

Aidan Hunt:

practicing the Sabbath.

Matthew Starner:

Because Because we're all different. Oh, yeah.

Matthew Starner:

And we're all in different places and different situations.

Matthew Starner:

You know, as you were saying that it was making me think of

Matthew Starner:

like, my own my own life where, you know, single guy, I live

Matthew Starner:

alone, like, there's still stuff that has to be done at home. And

Matthew Starner:

so on my day off, which could be my Sabbath, like, sometimes I am

Matthew Starner:

out mowing the lawn, I gotta get groceries, I got to run errands

Matthew Starner:

and stuff that happened. And, and so sometimes it's it is hard

Matthew Starner:

to, to not cease what you're doing for a whole day.

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, yeah. And I think so. Me, for example, same

Aidan Hunt:

kind of season of life issues as Matthew. And sometimes it's

Aidan Hunt:

harder for me to really stop everything, and just like drop

Aidan Hunt:

everything and just kind of like lounge for a full day. But I do

Aidan Hunt:

believe that if we if we look at how God's been to Sabbath, where

Aidan Hunt:

he delights in His creation, I think it's really important to

Aidan Hunt:

incorporate delight to your Sabbath to so me, for example, I

Aidan Hunt:

take my Sabbath from like Friday afternoon, Friday evening, until

Aidan Hunt:

Saturday evening, I try to do the full 24 hours. And in that

Aidan Hunt:

time, it's not like I don't do anything at all. But like I

Aidan Hunt:

intentionally will go and I don't answer my email. So if you

Aidan Hunt:

ever tried to email me on Saturday, that's why I don't

Aidan Hunt:

respond to you. Because I have set that boundary for myself,

Aidan Hunt:

like, Nope, no email, like do not do any work today. Or I'll

Aidan Hunt:

go to my favorite restaurant, and I'll get a good dinner, or

Aidan Hunt:

I'll go see friends that I didn't see during the week. And

Aidan Hunt:

like, those are all things that are restful and good from Iran,

Aidan Hunt:

you know, go down to the donut shop, I'll get a couple donuts

Aidan Hunt:

for my Saturday morning. You know, coffee and watching

Aidan Hunt:

soccer, like those are things that bring me delight that, you

Aidan Hunt:

know, helped me center my body back with my mind and actually

Aidan Hunt:

really feel feel thankful that God has given me these things

Aidan Hunt:

and you know, I make my my quiet times I try to make them a

Aidan Hunt:

little longer during that time where I can pray, and I can

Aidan Hunt:

spend time in God's word and, and just kind of really catch up

Aidan Hunt:

with myself and catch up with him again, and really just think

Aidan Hunt:

to, you know, I'm intentional about how I'm spending that

Aidan Hunt:

time. And if I'm spending that time trying to glorify Him in my

Aidan Hunt:

rest, you know, that is worship. If we if we are intentionally

Aidan Hunt:

doing these things with God in mind,

Stephanie Sherman:

I think that's a key intentional with

Stephanie Sherman:

what you're spending your time on in the day of rest doesn't

Stephanie Sherman:

mean you just lay on the couch and do nothing like, you know,

Stephanie Sherman:

just

Aidan Hunt:

resting and there's time for that to

Stephanie Sherman:

100% but I think that you had a great point

Stephanie Sherman:

of you can spend your day doing things that you really enjoy

Stephanie Sherman:

doing and that is still a Sabbath day because you're

Stephanie Sherman:

delighting in the stuff that God gave you to do in his creation.

Stephanie Sherman:

So yeah, I think that's an important thing. And I also

Stephanie Sherman:

think that there is seasons of life when you you're not going

Stephanie Sherman:

to get a 12 hour You're eating mean, my family still gets

Stephanie Sherman:

hungry, I'm sorry, they're still gonna want some food. And they

Stephanie Sherman:

are getting to the point now where they're old enough to do

Stephanie Sherman:

that on their own. But there are times when you have littles and

Stephanie Sherman:

they still need food and they the things that they need. So I

Stephanie Sherman:

think that maybe even just building in some of that time

Stephanie Sherman:

into your day, I know when my my boys were younger. Mine was in

Stephanie Sherman:

the evening after I put them to bed. And I would have my quiet

Stephanie Sherman:

time and my Bible study time. And just that moment of, you

Stephanie Sherman:

know, daily, I don't know that you'd call it Sabbath, but that

Stephanie Sherman:

daily rest in trying to build it in that way. And, you know, I

Stephanie Sherman:

would tell my kids, I am off duty, right? So if you need

Stephanie Sherman:

something, you need to say the word Dad, mom is off duty for

Stephanie Sherman:

the next, you know, couple hours or until you go to sleep. So

Aidan Hunt:

yeah. And I think one of the things, and I might

Aidan Hunt:

be going on a different tangent or stream of thought than we

Aidan Hunt:

were initially going with, but I think one of the things we need

Aidan Hunt:

to rest from is technology. So I think if you can even spend time

Aidan Hunt:

on the weekend or during the week with your phone, not only

Aidan Hunt:

away from you but off in a drawer somewhere and you can

Aidan Hunt:

focus on your kids or on your friends. Well yeah, God forbid

Aidan Hunt:

you you'd be away from

Stephanie Sherman:

just turn off dismayed every teenager that

Stephanie Sherman:

might be listening, just every teenager, just

Aidan Hunt:

even if you you can even go a step further be like,

Aidan Hunt:

No, we don't turn on the TV or the computer. Like, yeah, no

Aidan Hunt:

screen. And like, for me, I can't even do that, because I'm

Aidan Hunt:

a Gen Z as heck. And so

Matthew Starner:

that is that is hard for folks. But but it might

Matthew Starner:

be something that even for like a season, like, you know,

Matthew Starner:

oftentimes, the season of Lent, the preparation leading up to

Matthew Starner:

Easter might be a time where we want to challenge ourselves to

Matthew Starner:

grow in some aspects spiritually, that could be a

Matthew Starner:

spiritual thing. Now, I think those are the sorts of things we

Matthew Starner:

got to remember to like, God's not impressed by that, you know,

Matthew Starner:

it's it's not something that we're doing to please Him or to

Matthew Starner:

get into his good graces or anything like that, but, but to

Matthew Starner:

push ourselves to grow in different ways that can be

Matthew Starner:

tremendously rewarding to do that kind of stuff.

Stephanie Sherman:

We used to do that. Every couple of months.

Stephanie Sherman:

Again, when the boys were a little bit smaller was you know,

Stephanie Sherman:

turn off all the screens, and then that was family game night,

Stephanie Sherman:

and different things. And so it can we call it forced family fun

Stephanie Sherman:

in our house. Hey, mate, detract from the idea of it. But yeah,

Stephanie Sherman:

so all screens were turned off. And that's when we spent time as

Stephanie Sherman:

a family, cooking, eating, playing games, that sort of

Stephanie Sherman:

stuff. So yeah, it's nice to build in.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah. I think the key here, maybe the one of

Matthew Starner:

the takeaways, as we kind of wrap this up is recognizing,

Matthew Starner:

like we've said that there's no one right way to do this. And,

Matthew Starner:

and recognizing too, that there are seasons of life, where we

Matthew Starner:

just are going to be busy. Sometimes there just are things

Matthew Starner:

that we have to do, because we're a mom or a dad or a

Matthew Starner:

student, whatever. And we don't really have full control over

Matthew Starner:

that.

Aidan Hunt:

And one person Sabbath is probably gonna look

Aidan Hunt:

very different from other persons, like the way I find

Aidan Hunt:

rest. And what I find delight in might be like, Matthew would

Aidan Hunt:

probably see them like, Oh, that's gross. I don't want to do

Aidan Hunt:

that.

Matthew Starner:

You said doughnuts,

Aidan Hunt:

and that that had been? Yes. That was that should

Aidan Hunt:

be a universal universal Sabbath. Like, right? You need

Aidan Hunt:

to do that right? Doughnuts. But yeah, so I mean, it's, it's

Aidan Hunt:

accustomed to you and to your family and to, like Matthew

Aidan Hunt:

said, your season of life, you know, whatever you can do, as

Aidan Hunt:

long as you're intentionally finding that time to, to spend

Aidan Hunt:

in rest, delighting in, in God's creation in his work, and what

Aidan Hunt:

in what you've done as well. And, you know, if you look back

Aidan Hunt:

on a, on a week count, I did, I did some good work this week,

Aidan Hunt:

and I get to refuel and recharge on my Sabbath and so that next

Aidan Hunt:

week, I can continue into my job into my vocation into my life as

Aidan Hunt:

a father, mother, you know, employee, friend, I can do it

Aidan Hunt:

better because I had that Sabbath time that rest to really

Aidan Hunt:

recharge and center myself on on who God says I am and who I am

Aidan Hunt:

because of Jesus, I don't

Stephanie Sherman:

know if he was specified it or just assumed

Stephanie Sherman:

it to be so but I do think somewhere in there needs to be

Stephanie Sherman:

some prayer, some time and God's word because recentering myself

Stephanie Sherman:

and delighting and things that I like, can then just lead myself

Stephanie Sherman:

down a path of just focusing on me during my Sabbath. And that

Stephanie Sherman:

really, I know myself, again, when the boys have been in

Stephanie Sherman:

trouble sports are different things and if I miss church on

Stephanie Sherman:

Sunday, I feel it during the week, you know, I, it's, I need

Stephanie Sherman:

that to fill my bucket. So I think having that Sabbath that

Stephanie Sherman:

time, you know, listening to Christian music, whatever it is,

Stephanie Sherman:

but something that is wholly centered on God and His Word to

Stephanie Sherman:

us, for him to speak into our hearts and our spirit for the

Stephanie Sherman:

weeks to come to. Well,

Matthew Starner:

like like Aiden said, You know, the, the Sabbath

Matthew Starner:

kind of practice that as God establishes that at the very

Matthew Starner:

beginning is about rest and delighting in his creation,

Matthew Starner:

which then we also get to do in Exodus in the the whole, the

Matthew Starner:

whole story of the people wandering through the

Matthew Starner:

wilderness, part of it also is that it's, it's an opportunity

Matthew Starner:

to trust that God's gonna provide like we, we collect two

Matthew Starner:

times the manner on Friday so that we don't have to do

Matthew Starner:

anything on Saturday and trust that that what God gives us on

Matthew Starner:

Friday is going to be enough for Saturday. And so it is that

Matthew Starner:

opportunity to, to in our Sabbath thing, however we do

Matthew Starner:

that to trust in God in what he provides. And we I think we do

Matthew Starner:

that by engaging with his word by through prayer and those

Matthew Starner:

sorts of things.

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, the day of rest is a good reminder to us

Aidan Hunt:

that we cannot do it all by ourselves, that we do have to

Aidan Hunt:

rely on God and on His provision and nothing just so hard. It's,

Aidan Hunt:

it's it's so hard for us

Matthew Starner:

they were all we're all self made people

Matthew Starner:

right. In many ways. And so yeah, it's it's tough to

Matthew Starner:

remember that. Maybe just one thing in closing here, any any

Matthew Starner:

resource or book or app or anything like that, that you'd

Matthew Starner:

recommend that would help people in their Saba thing?

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, I've got I've got a few books, I referenced it

Aidan Hunt:

in the the last portion of the podcast, we talked about the

Aidan Hunt:

problem of free, but the ruthless elimination of hurry by

Aidan Hunt:

John Mark comer is a great book, Garden City, also by John

Aidan Hunt:

mcommerce, sitting in front of me about the relationship

Aidan Hunt:

between work and rest. And then also the book To hell with the

Aidan Hunt:

hustle by Jefferson, Becky, those three books have

Aidan Hunt:

completely changed my view of what rest looks like what it

Aidan Hunt:

means to us as followers of Jesus, and how we can steward

Aidan Hunt:

our rest to lead to human flourishing and, and creatures

Aidan Hunt:

God made us to be. Those three books are incredibly important

Aidan Hunt:

to me.

Matthew Starner:

I know a lot of folks like the abide app, as a

Matthew Starner:

meditation app. One that I've only just recently kind of

Matthew Starner:

discovered, I haven't really gotten into it a whole lot yet,

Matthew Starner:

kind of eager to check that out. You know, that whole like,

Matthew Starner:

guided meditation thing hasn't been something that I've ever

Matthew Starner:

done before or gotten into. So kind of looking looking to

Matthew Starner:

explore that a little bit. And you know, any of the any of the

Matthew Starner:

different Bible apps and stuff that are out there, I think are

Matthew Starner:

all useful for getting engaged with God's word, maybe even one,

Matthew Starner:

one plug for one that we use here at St. Matthew is the right

Matthew Starner:

now media app, lots of different videos and Bible studies and

Matthew Starner:

things on there to enrich your faith life. And if you're not

Matthew Starner:

familiar with that app, it is something that St. Matthew is

Matthew Starner:

paid for, for our members. And so contact us and we'd be happy

Matthew Starner:

to add you to that. So you've got access to that whole library

Matthew Starner:

of resources there. But there's a lot of great stuff in there

Matthew Starner:

for that time of Sabbath to just recharge to connect with God

Matthew Starner:

and, and trust in what he's done for us. So

Stephanie Sherman:

Well, I think, right? Working with

Stephanie Sherman:

youth, teenagers, they've always got headphones in so just

Stephanie Sherman:

creating a playlist. Yeah, I think that helps me what what I

Stephanie Sherman:

listened to really influences my mood and things. So I think if

Stephanie Sherman:

you were to just create a playlist of Christian music, or

Stephanie Sherman:

just that relaxing music, and any of that kind of stuff to

Stephanie Sherman:

that can just kind of help train your brain. I think back even to

Stephanie Sherman:

write when moms are getting ready to have childbirth and and

Stephanie Sherman:

they've, they tell you to listen to the same music and do the

Stephanie Sherman:

deep breathing and it will relax your body. And then when you go

Stephanie Sherman:

into childbirth, that your body will automatically do those

Stephanie Sherman:

things when you hear that music again. So I think it's the same

Stephanie Sherman:

thing on your Sabbath day. Like you listen to those songs, you

Stephanie Sherman:

relax, you focus on God, and that trains that body that even

Stephanie Sherman:

in the middle of your hustle and bustle you put on that playlist

Stephanie Sherman:

in the middle of the week and it can help draw you into him and

Stephanie Sherman:

his presence when you need it. Yeah,

Aidan Hunt:

for sure. And then my last resource would be the

Aidan Hunt:

Psalms especially on the Sabbath, because the a lot of

Aidan Hunt:

the psalms are written as songs and his poems of worship and of

Aidan Hunt:

needing God and of the human condition. And how we we wrestle

Aidan Hunt:

with God and also how we live for him. It's kind of its kind

Aidan Hunt:

of, I don't wanna say counterproductive but if you're

Aidan Hunt:

spending your quiet time on the Sabbath reading like the

Aidan Hunt:

prophets who were saying everything is bad and death is

Aidan Hunt:

nigh like that might not be super wrestle for you. But like

Aidan Hunt:

the Psalms really like David, I think does a really good job of,

Aidan Hunt:

of communicating human emotions and worshipping in light of who

Aidan Hunt:

God is not who we are. So I highly recommend reading a

Aidan Hunt:

couple Psalms on the Sabbath and really putting yourself in the

Aidan Hunt:

mindset of of worshiping and rest. And there's actually a few

Aidan Hunt:

songs I can't think off the top of my head that are designed for

Aidan Hunt:

the Sabbath to that how important it is to just focus

Aidan Hunt:

ourselves and center ourselves on on God and on resting in Him.

Matthew Starner:

Well, this has been been very helpful for me to

Matthew Starner:

think through these things. And I hope it's helpful for those

Matthew Starner:

who are listening to. And I just thank you guys so much for being

Matthew Starner:

a part of this. Thanks, Aidan. Thanks, Stephanie, for joining

Matthew Starner:

the conversation today. Look forward to more of these sitting

Matthew Starner:

down here to talk about faith and life together. Thanks for

Matthew Starner:

listening in today on all these great conversations. We'd love

Matthew Starner:

to hear from you as we continue this journey together. If you

Matthew Starner:

could rate and review us on whatever platform you're

Matthew Starner:

listening to us on that would help us out and help others find

Matthew Starner:

us. And if there's a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us

Matthew Starner:

know. You can email us at Media at St. Matthew gr.com. Thanks

Matthew Starner:

for listening and keep following Jesus together as we become

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