In this very special special and personal episode, we interview co-host John Montoya's wife, Kelly Vail, about her battle with cancer.

As a business owner, Kelly started IBC as a way to be more efficient with her cash flow. Little did she know that, years later, the living benefits of whole life insurance would literally save her life.

When the healthcare system had no answers and gave her only months to live, the access to money created by her whole life and disability insurance gave her the flexibility and space that she needed to take matters into her own hands.

---

Episode Outline:

● (0:17) - Episode start and introduction

● (1:15) - What is a Health Savings Account (HSA)? How people view it and it’s limitations

● (7:35) - The opportunity cost of HSAs, blurring the line between saving/investing

● (9:40) - Why IBC is the best rainy day fund for medical expenses

● (12:30) - Introduction to Kelly Montoya, her story and her battle with breast cancer

● (20:03) - What Kelly realized about her health insurance coverage, using her IBC policy to get the treatment she needed

● (25:45) - The reality of supplementing your income with disability, how Kelly actually utilized her IBC policy

● (34:08) - IBC gave Kelly an alternative path that was literally life-changing, some big news

● (40:25) - The last 7 months, the role that IBC played, episode wrap

- Hi everybody, this is John Montoya.

- And this is John Perrings.

- We're authorized Infinite Banking practitioners

and host of the Fifth Edition.

Episode 55, The Ultimate HSA.

In today's episode, we're going to discuss what is an HSA,

how does it work, what are the limitations,

and ultimately, what we feel is a better alternative,

what we're calling the ultimate HSA.

And on this episode, we're gonna have a very special guest

who is going to speak about her experience with IBC

and how she used her Infinite Banking policies

really as what we're championing on the show here

in this episode, her policies as the ultimate HSA.

So John, thank you for being here and let's jump into it.

- Absolutely, thank you

and I'm excited to have this conversation today.

- Me too 'cause our special guest happens to be my spouse,

and we had a, you know,

something that affected us pretty, pretty closely,

I mean as closely as we'll detail later.

But we want to get into first,

you know, what is a health savings account?

Because these are pretty popular accounts,

ironically, at least from our approach,

created by the government

and they have their use cases.

And let's talk about what is an HSA first

so people can quickly wrap their heads around

why we're even talking about this today.

- First of all, I agree.

You know, HSAs are kind of like 401Ks

where they're kind of a sacred cow out there

where I see a lot of people that have them

and they defend having one very strongly,

they feel very strongly about having an HSA,

but then what I find in reality

is that they don't actually fund

their HSA very aggressively.

So they feel very strongly about having one,

but they don't take advantage of them

as much as you might think someone would.

But an HSA is really just a,

stands for health savings account.

It's a tax advantaged savings account

that you use to pay for IRS qualified healthcare expenses.

So really anyone who's covered

under a qualified high deductible healthcare insurance plan

can open an HSA.

And, you know, there are some advantages

and we'll get into some disadvantages as well.

- Yeah and as far as some attractive benefits

that an HSA does have,

it does offer that triple tax advantage

where you and/or your employer

can contribute pre-tax dollars to this account,

interest and investment earnings can grow tax free,

and you can also withdraw the funds tax free

to pay for your qualified medical expenses.

And so those are nice advantages to really cherry pick on.

But you know, we're going to discuss here in a moment,

some limitations.

Well, how does it work?

I would say this is probably one of the major limitations

is that here in 2022, if you are an individual, single,

the most you can contribute to these accounts

is $1,400 a year.

And if you have a family,

the most you can contribute is $2,800 a year.

So it really makes it difficult,

especially with the high cost of healthcare

coming out of pocket,

it makes it hard to build up any emergency rainy day fund

for unseen medical expenses

when you're limited by what the government tells you

you can contribute each and every year

if you even qualify for these accounts.

So as great as an HSA seemingly is on paper,

you have these rules and restrictions

that ultimately are going to limit you

as far as how much you can contribute to it each year

and then if you can even qualify for it.

- Yeah and I think that's probably the number one reason

that I don't see HSAs really being funded

with any type of real intention.

You know, most people have these HSA accounts,

maybe they've got a few thousand bucks in 'em

and I think this limitation

and also just like qualified plans,

I think there's probably a lack of understanding

of how these things actually work.

And so rather than kind of getting super educated

and spending a bunch of time

trying to understand another government sponsored platform,

I think people are just kind of like,

yeah, I'll throw some money in there whenever I can.

And I think also, you know, I think it's also looked at

like it's a supplement to someone's health insurance,

which it is, right, that's not incorrect.

But because of that, I think people also think

that they don't really need to have that much in there,

but maybe don't understand

how there could be some additional costs down the line

if anything happens

that's not covered by your health insurance plan.

And so I think that's one of the big limiting factors

is just a lack of understanding

and not really wanting to, you know, jump in with both feet

and then maybe a lack of understanding of,

you know, what their health insurance

will actually cover or not cover, right?

- Yeah and I think one of the other limitations

that we need to discuss with an HSA

is that it does offer you the ability

to invest your balance in these accounts

into mutual funds and market based securities.

And that, while it may sound like an advantage,

I think it's actually counterintuitive

to having money set aside for emergencies.

Because if you think about it,

when you put money aside for a rainy day,

that's money that really,

you know, you should be removing risk with that money.

And these accounts offer the ability to invest that money

where if you have what's happening right now in 2022

with the market being historically negative,

you know, year to date,

well what's happening with your rainy day fund

for, you know, medical expenses?

It's being cut in half or worse.

So this is, you know, an argument in my mind against HSAs

because it's supposed to be for emergencies,

it's supposed to be safe money and here-

- It's supposed to be savings.

- Right, it's supposed to be savings,

and understanding the difference between,

you know, saving and investing,

and here we are with HSAs

and that line's getting blurred all over again.

So I think that's a real limitation for people

because it opens up that door

where once again, we are being conditioned

to chase rate of return

with money that's supposed to be set aside

for unseen medical expenses

or maybe even planned for medical expenses

'cause you can use it for whatever you want,

but again, you're taking unnecessary risk with that money

when with a better alternative you really don't have to.

And one other thought that I had regarding the HSAs

is that there's opportunity cost

inherent with these accounts

because let's think of it this way.

If you're contributing as an individual $1,400 a year

or a family, $2,800 a year,

and you use the funds in this account

to pay for a medical expense,

what happens is that money no longer will compound for you

because you have to withdraw it and use it for that expense.

So it doesn't allow that money

to continually grow uninterrupted for the rest of your life,

which I think is a good segue to really,

you know, the point of this episode,

what is a better alternative,

what we're calling the ultimate HSA account

or ultimate HSA, IBC?

- That's right, and you know, just to one,

just to put one final rapper

before we get into the better alternative is,

you know, as you were talking it made me think that,

you know, his conflation between investing being savings

is something that you see

really in all of the government sponsored plans.

It happens in the HSA that we just talked about,

it happens in the college 529 funds that we see,

and it happens in, you know, 401K's and IRA's.

Somehow those things

became known as retirement savings plans

when that's actually not at all what you're doing,

you're not saving, you're investing.

And so, you know, that all just goes

all into the principles of Infinite Banking

where, you know, we want to maintain control of our capital

and never lose the value of that capital anytime,

no matter how we use it.

And so I think that sums it up nicely into,

you know, going into the ultimate, "the ultimate HSA".

Did you want to touch on that, John?

- Yeah, so real quickly,

here are a few points that we feel are what make IBC

the best emergency medical rainy day fund out there.

Number one, you can contribute much larger amounts,

which will of course help build up the cash values

much quicker than what you can do with an HSA.

You also don't have the government telling you,

you know, you can only contribute $1,400 or $2,800 this year

and maybe they might bump that up by an extra $50 next year.

You have no big brother telling you

how much you can put into an IBC policy.

It's really based on your capacity and willingness

to redirect premium into a plan.

Another point, cash values can be used for anything.

You know, we harp on this a lot in this show

and I will come out and say,

you probably never think about using this

for a medical expense,

but isn't it nice knowing that if something comes up,

you actually have that ability

to use it for whatever you want, including medical expenses?

I think so.

There's no opportunity cost when using the banking function

of an IBC policy.

We've called it the ninth wonder of the world,

uninterrupted compounding interest.

So it allows you,

even though you are taking a loan against your cash value,

that cash value is still continuing to grow uninterrupted.

You really can't find that anywhere else.

With all the safety and guarantees that you get

with the IBC design to whole life policy.

Your cash value on these policies, they're safe,

they're always growing,

they're not prone to market corrections

leading to serious draw down and assets

like what would happen with an HSA.

So it keeps investments separate from your emergency money.

And I think the last point is really a,

a really big point that most people, myself included,

would otherwise never even think of.

But when it happens to you, it's actually a big deal.

And that's the piece of mind

knowing that you have the freedom to make

potentially life saving decisions

with the financial capital that you have accumulated

with no restrictions on how you use it.

You have the peace of mind

knowing that you're not going to be pressured

into making a decision that isn't best for you

because, you know, you have limited options available.

Your IBC policies give you options,

multiple options that maybe you otherwise wouldn't have,

and that even applies to potential treatment plans

based on, you know, what your health situation may require.

So a lot of benefits

that are just included with Infinite Banking

that I think makes it the ultimate HSA.

And I think here is a good point where

we'd like to bring on a guest, a special guest

to talk about her journey with IBC

and ultimately, how she has used it

really as her emergency medical savings account.

So with no further ado, John,

you want to bring on Miss Kelly into the show

and let her tell the audience about her experience?

- Absolutely.

Welcome Kelly, it's great to see you

and I really appreciate you coming on

and sharing your story with us.

It's super impactful and important and,

you know, John said it best when,

it's hard to understand the value of peace of mind

unless you experience something.

And we get this all the time in the insurance industry

where people just really only put value on the cash value

or they don't even value life insurance at all

because they've just never been in a situation

where they've experienced anything that's scary.

And it's unfortunate because then you wind up,

you know, putting GoFundMe fundraisers together

when if you had just thought ahead

and, you know, put a little value on that piece of mind

and understand that there are bumps in the road

that do happen.

And so I really look up to both of you

as people who really practice what we preach

and I'm just so thankful

that you've had the ability to do this

and be able to, you know, take action

and not be pressured into decisions, as you said.

And we're now seeing the results of that.

And so I don't want to tell the story

so I'll just turn it over to Kelly

and maybe you could tell us a little bit about,

you know, what's been going on.

- Yeah, sure.

Thank you John and John for inviting me to the show.

For me, I'm grateful

that I found Infinite Banking when I did.

I would say it was a happy accident

that it was there when I had a medical crisis

'cause that was not how I got into using the IBC approach.

When I started working with Infinite Banking,

I was a small business owner

and I wanted to plan for retirement

but I didn't want to be associated with the stock market

and I didn't want to have restricted access to my money,

like a 401K,

'cause as a small business owner,

liquidity is important for certain opportunities

or even in emergency situations.

So I wanted that flexibility.

And as a small business owner,

I actually ended up using the IBC policy

as a place to store my quarterly taxes

so that the money I was setting aside

was making more money than a savings account.

I eventually went to work for one of my clients

and so closed my small business,

but I continued using my IBC policies

and keeping them funded

'cause the premise of it really made sense to me

and it was a place that I had a lot of freedom

and flexibility to control the funds.

For something as simple as I want to take a policy loan

to buy a car or do landscaping,

no one was gonna question what I was up to.

So I was, I moved on and was working with a client

and continued funding my policies

but I had a lot of questions upfront

because I had been burned

by a variable universal life insurance policy

that ended up being like a money pit

when the stock market was down.

So I was definitely very cautious

and skeptical getting into it,

but it turned out to be

one of the best things that I have chose to do.

And in the past year when I have had this health crisis,

it had more benefits for me

than I even realized when I started

that's almost like 12 years ago.

So that's kind of how I got into it.

But my story is, you know, let's see,

I was diagnosed with stage one breast cancer last May,

so May, 2021,

and one in seven women will have the diagnosis that I have

and cancer rates are even higher every year,

I mean literally one in three women

will get a cancer diagnosis in her lifetime

and one in two men

will get a cancer diagnosis in their lifetime,

so really scary numbers.

But for me, my diagnosis came in May of 2021

and they said I was stage one breast cancer,

the most common type, most treatable type.

I was like okay, my health insurance was great,

I was working for a company, I took time off.

I had a lumpectomy in July of 2021.

They said my pathology was high risk,

meaning I had a 30% chance of recurrence, which I was like,

ah, 30%, that's not that high

but you know just took it seriously.

I followed the health insurance guidance,

the oncology's guidance and they said,

"Oh you should double mastectomy, be proactive."

I'm also a BRCA II genetic mutation carrier.

So I had the double mastectomy in October of 2021

and the pathology came back, said it was clear.

And a double mastectomy is pretty life altering experience

and a really big decision.

As I was healing from that,

I was set to have the reconstruction surgery

for the end of February and thought I was home free,

everything was gonna be great.

In January of 2022,

I started having some low back pain

and I was seeing a chiropractor.

On February 11th, 2022,

I was taken by ambulance to the hospital

for severe back spasms

and I spent the next three days

having my L2 vertebrae slowly fracture and break

due to stage four breast cancer,

which none of my doctors had any idea,

they said I was all clear, I was only ever at stage one,

but all of a sudden within four months,

I had 11 spots in my vertebrae and ribs

with stage four breast cancer.

- Is that a function of the breast cancer?

Had it metastasized?

- So stage four breast cancer means it's metastasized

and it will go to bones, liver, lung and brains

is where breast cancer goes to.

- Okay, got it.

- Mine went to the my bones,

but I literally had been under significant doctor care

and pathology and was supposedly all clear, but yet I had

breast cancer in my bones

bad enough that one of my vertebrae broke.

So I was completely shocked

and then completely wondering how did they not know or check

or how were there and not any other signs,

so very, very surprised,

extremely painful experience,

just kind of rock your world surprise.

And this is February of 2022, just seven months ago.

They did CT scans and a MRI and a biopsy and

they came back with a very painful and short life expectancy

and it was palliative care,

and palliative care means

we'll give you all the pain meds we can

until you slowly leave us.

And I was like, phew, that's all you got?

I mean this is healthcare.

Like don't we have anything better

than what you told my great-grandmother in the 1950's?

And I just couldn't believe that that was all the choices.

And then with a little research,

actually a lot of the research,

I discovered that our health care in America

and our health insurance just has a limited list of things

that they will and will not cover.

And I was like, well I don't like your plan.

And when I think about it,

it's like taking my Ferrari to my lawnmower mechanic,

I'm taking my Ferrari to these people who are like,

well the only thing I could do was small engines,

but I'll do what I can.

Okay, you may understand my lawnmower

but you're not gonna work on my Ferrari.

So I was like, what are my other choices?

Do I have the freedom to go someplace else

and really look at something else?

And the answer is, sure

and you're gonna have to pay for that.

And with more research, I come to find out

my health insurance

actually knows about these other treatments,

they just call them experimental and won't cover them.

Okay, so now I've got this whole list of possible things

that are better than a painful, short life,

but no one's gonna pay for it but me.

And then this is where most people sit and go,

okay, well I'll do a fundraiser,

I will get donations from friends and family.

And I was literally sitting

with my vertebrae had shrunk to 90% of its height

and they were considering

whether I will be paralyzed or not

and I didn't have time to wait for a fundraiser.

And the most amazing thing is

I didn't have to wait for a fundraiser.

I have an IBC policy,

I don't even have to fill out

why I want to take a policy loan.

I can do whatever I want without restriction.

I can choose the healthcare path that was right for me,

whether it was considered experimental in the United States

and perfectly fine in Germany or wonderful in Mexico.

I wasn't held back by what my healthcare would pay for.

I wasn't held back by, did I have money in an HSA account?

And just to touch on the HSA,

A, you can only put in so much per year.

And two, you have to track all your receipts,

submit all your paperwork,

you've got to wait for all of the reimbursement

and it's a serious negotiation.

And believe me, I've tried,

I have an HSA and there's certain things where I'm like,

it's not even worth of paperwork

but I want that treatment for myself

so I'm just going to pay for it.

So one of the things, it was freedom to take action,

and the other piece I think is overlooked is stress.

So being as sick as I was,

our healthcare system

makes you be the air traffic controller

of all your appointments and all your medications

and all your treatments while you're going through them.

And while your family's there and supportive,

you still have to be the person who makes those choices

and to track all those expenses.

And finding the money and tracking the money

and who's gonna reimburse what is stress.

HSA is stress.

It's great when you're perfectly fine,

you just want to go to the dentist and get, you know,

or you want to get a massage and just use your HSA card.

But when you're really, really sick

and you actually need to spend a good of money

on choices that our health insurance won't pay for,

it's stress relief.

There's also minimal paperwork.

If you take an IBC policy loan,

I could do it online,

and if it's less than a certain threshold,

I don't even need to print it or sign it or anything,

I just submit it

and they deposit the money in my checking account.

So that piece of mind, the ease of it,

I mean I know some people

who are going through what I went through

and made alternative choices

and they tried to take like a home mortgage.

They have to fill out why,

they have to fill out the paperwork

'cause of what are the risk factors?

Do you think they're going to let you

have a second mortgage on your house

with a terminal diagnosis?

No, because they're at it from a risk factor

of like who's gonna repay this money?

Not the person who's been given a painful, short life.

And for me, didn't have that problem.

I just said I want to do this,

and within two weeks,

I was in the treatment clinic that I wanted

in a three week inpatient service and doing it,

I didn't have to to worry about it.

And then when I was in the clinic

going through this different path

that my health insurance wouldn't pay for,

I was like, okay, how can I go and take this home?

How can I take this therapy home

and continue this healing process?

Well I found all sorts of service providers in my area,

none of which my health insurance would pay for.

I was like, okay, where do I start?

What can I do at home?

And I'm just gonna pay for it, I'm just gonna figure it out.

And then I actually found doctors and physicians

who if you don't use your health insurance,

they'll actually give you a better price

because the amount of work it takes

for the practitioners to use health insurance

and all the paperwork that also comes with using HSA,

they would rather just get paid directly.

So there was a convenience factor even for the physicians.

And I worked with one physician who actually said

that health insurance pays the practitioner so little

it's not even worth it for them to take health insurance.

So some of the services that I wanted to choose for myself

were not available to me

because health insurance

has a ground down those practitioners

to receive so little of those funds.

So I could make the choice

to go see this practitioner that I wanted

who had an excellent reputation

as long as I could pay for it myself.

So now you look at like

my health insurance is actually keeping me

from accessing these really amazing healers,

but if I had the money to choose,

I could access them myself.

So I use my policy from that standpoint.

Another thing that I don't know if people realize is that

when you're really sick, like I was and in pain, disability,

they jerk the money around,

they may deposit on this day or that day, it may come late,

they may take out something for taxes or they may say,

oh yes, but minus these five things.

So your disability income-

- You're referring to disability insurance here?

- Well, through my employer, I have what they pay me.

Then there's the state

and then there's the social security disability.

What they will pay you, when they will pay you,

how much they will pay you, it moves, it changes.

So while you're trying to heal

and you're trying to pay for your medical bills

and all your copays

that come through your normal health insurance,

your income is all over the place.

I mean one month I actually had to call 'em and say,

"Are you going to make the deposit?"

They're like, "Oh we forgot."

I'm like, how is that even possible?

And why as the person who's healing,

am I chasing down my disability income

to make sure it's actually deposited on the time?

So you have this additional stress that comes with

they will pay you when they get to it.

You know, so those are things that with an IBC policy,

didn't have to think about it.

So the peace of mind to know that

I didn't have to worry about my mortgage,

I didn't have to worry about paying extra money

for services that I need,

let's say a pet walker because I couldn't walk my pets,

but I just had the money there,

I didn't have to wait on this disability income.

You know, I didn't have to worry

if I could use my air conditioning

because I couldn't pay my electric bill

because my income had come in late.

There was just peace of mind that said, okay, I got this.

And that's a wonderful gift

as somebody who's trying to heal,

who manages a household,

to not have to think about it.

To go, can I cover my basics?

Can I cover my grocery bill?

And to be able to just have that peace of mind

is a wonderful, a wonderful gift.

Even if it's just a short policy loan

to get you between your disability payments,

the fact that it's even there, that you have that choice,

there's a lot of people

who have to work through a cancer diagnosis

because the disability payments

come in at a chaotic schedule

and reduced amount every month.

So having an IBC policy there,

wow, there are no words for it,

just to know that you have access to that

for whatever it is you need when you need it.

And I can pay it back when I'm healthy,

or if it didn't work out, it's a life insurance policy,

it'll just be deducted.

So to me that's another thing

is I'm not creating this mountain of debt for myself

that I'll never be able to get out of.

It's there,

it has the flexibility to pay it back when I'm healthy.

- Quick question on how you actually accessed the money.

So we've been talking about policy loans

and actually using your life insurance cash value

to pay for some of this.

Was any of the, you know, riders,

known as accelerated death benefit riders

for chronic or terminal illness,

was any of that money used in your case

to fund some of the treatments that you were using?

- No, in my case I didn't use that.

But what I did do was there is the flexibility

to work with the companies and I would say it reduced

or it just cut it back to the minimum payment every month,

so I wasn't making my full payment,

like with the rider and everything.

So I have been able

to reduce my monthly expenses on paying my policies

while I've been out on disability,

and that's also been a great relief

to have that reduced payment.

- Oh that's huge 'cause that's a big question

that comes up all the time is like,

you know, people feel like they're locked into paying

a certain premium forever when as you just said

that's not necessarily the case at all.

- Yeah and it was pretty simple to implement.

- Yeah and there's also a disability waiver of premium

that was exercised,

which basically waived the premium

due on one of her policies, one of her larger policies,

simply because, you know, with the doctor's certification

that she could not work her primary job,

she didn't have to pay the premium,

it was actually the life insurance company

on the hook for that now.

So that was also an additional benefit

that she took advantage of.

- And just for the listeners out there,

in case we're speaking in tongues to you here,

we're talking about riders,

which are contract riders to the life insurance policy

that have some additional functionality

over them just paying a death benefit.

One of them are called accelerated death benefit riders,

where if you have a chronic or terminal illness,

you can get access to a portion of the death benefit

before you die, which was not used in this case.

And then what John Montoya and Kelly were just saying

is that they did take advantage of,

there's another rider

called a disability waiver of premium rider,

which allows you, if you can,

you know, if you have a qualifying disability,

which Kelly did,

the insurance company will pay your premium on your behalf

during the term of the disability.

I mean you've really just so well articulated

just these intangible benefits

that are hard to put on a balance sheet

or a life insurance illustration

or you know, your budgeting software,

whatever else you're looking at.

And I mean I think some of the things that you said

of just having to, you know,

and John and I didn't even touch on that whole idea

that you have to track all your expenses for an HSA,

just all those things that you have to do

while you're trying to heal is really a huge deal.

And I just,

by the way, I kind of mentioned GoFundMe stuff and you know,

I'm not knocking people who use GoFundMe's,

but is it really what you want to have to rely on?

Wouldn't you rather have something that you can rely on

where you're kind of doing a GoFundMe ahead of time,

you know, where you're raising the funds ahead of time?

And you know all the things you're talking about is really,

you know, you saved for an emergency,

you know you had an emergency fund

set up, ready to go, liquid.

And by the way, you don't need life insurance to do that.

It just so happens that life insurance has,

you know, so many benefits over putting it in a bank account

that like it's earning whatever 40 times what it'll earn

putting it in a bank account

so that when you do need it,

you're gonna have more there that's available for you.

And I mean do you feel the results of the path you've taken

have paid off over the other path that was available to you

if you didn't have this savings available?

- I'm glad, hold on one second,

I'm glad that you asked that John,

because as Kelly mentioned, she started this journey

with her diagnosis stage four breast cancer in February

and this was a,

a really,

a tough fork in the road in her life

because she was given that palliative care option

by her doctors here

and as she mentioned,

quality of life was only going to get worse

till the end of her life.

And you know, she's a young woman

and so much going on in her life,

and I know this firsthand,

and I should also mention Kelly is my wife

so I'm very proud of that fact.

And you know, if you're listening to her,

you hear just how articulate and incredibly grounded she is.

She funded these policies with so much intention

to fulfill all the promise in her life.

Never once did she think about funding these policies

to potentially pay for a life saving treatment plan.

But that's where I'd really like to segue into

because seven months ago she was only given one option,

palliative care by her doctors and she basically said no.

And a big reason why

is because when you've got nothing to lose,

you've got nothing to lose.

But these policies gave her an option

to pursue another treatment plan,

and now we're seven months forward.

Kelly, go ahead and jump in.

And John, you don't know the news yet,

so this might come as a surprise,

but Kelly, go ahead and share.

- In August, my neurologist and radiation oncologist said,

"Your bones are healed."

- Unreal.

- Yeah, the bones not only grew back,

but they grow back stronger.

So bone remodeling is that impressive.

So just in that short period of time,

the treatment path that I chose,

the method that I chose

that wasn't paid for by my health insurance,

my bones are healed.

Amazing, just amazing.

I am doing endurance training

and I'm set to go back to work.

- I stopped by John and Kelly's house over Thanksgiving

and she had just had her double mastectomy at that point.

And by the way, that happened extremely fast.

And then moving to stage four,

I mean that was it felt like the next week

when John Montoya told me that happened.

And you know it's like you get that news and

you know, I was just crushed for you guys

and then you decided to take this alternative path

and it was almost just as fast,

I mean I know it doesn't seem like that to you,

but it was such a quick recovery

compared to what I've seen where,

you know, my mom died of lung cancer

and it was an eight year process

where I just saw this long slow decline.

And for you to bounce back

and have this incredible news seven months later,

I'm just so happy for you and I just love you guys.

I'm just so happy for you, that's really great to hear.

- Thank you, John.

I'm, in June I had a PET scan

and seven of my 11 locations were gone,

weren't even recognized on a PET scan.

That left me with four.

And so we continued on with our path and treatment.

And so by August, the end of August,

to have my bones healed,

I can't have another PET scan until December

to like officially clear,

PET scan is the preferred diagnostic tool,

but all my markers look wonderful and I feel amazing,

I absolutely feel, my quality of life,

so I just really feel empowered

to have the freedom to choose the path that I want,

to have the freedom to choose

the practitioners and healers that I want.

And I wish our health insurance and healthcare

had a little bit more on the preventative side of things,

but that's a whole nother conversation.

Just knowing that our healthcare providers

do the best that they can,

knowing that they're restricted

to this very small list of things

that people can and can't get paid for care.

There's so many more choices outside of the United States

but the people don't even know where.

So part of it is just aware that there are other choices

and it's almost like Infinite Banking

where you need to be aware that there are other choices

than just use your bank and having a checking account

and use your 401K.

There are other choices.

So creating awareness not only for IBC,

but you know, the freedom.

- And I don't know, John, would you be willing to,

if people had questions about what Kelly did for treatment,

could they email us and ask you?

- Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, Kelly, you have a blog that you started,

maybe you might feel comfortable

sharing that with the audience.

- Yeah, absolutely.

When I chose to go a different path

after my stage four diagnosis, I started posting on,

it's called caringbridge.com,

which is a website that hosts pages

for people who to help communicate

and get support from your community.

I started posting twice a week back in April,

and I'm happy to,

for anyone to read it

and just read about my journey

and the things that I experienced and my progress there.

I don't know if there's a place

to post the link or share the link,

but I believe it's caringbridge.com/kellyjvail,

So that's k-e-l-l-y-j-v-a-i-l.

And that should take you to my CaringBridge post

and you can see my journey and read about what I did

and it's pretty, pretty detailed,

but I had a lot of people who wanted to know how I was doing

and CaringBridge allowed them to keep track of me

without hundreds of people trying to call me and text me.

But definitely open for,

you know, helping other people know they have choices too.

- Yeah and one thing you should know about Kelly

is she is very detail-oriented,

and not only does that apply to the blog that she created,

that goes into all the different treatments

that she undergoes really on a daily basis,

but it takes me back to

when I initially had our conversations

about Infinite Banking and when she came into my office

with a list of 26 questions that,

you know, she wanted to get to the bottom of,

you know, what IBC was all about.

She tackles things from a perspective

where she really wants to pull back the curtain

and understand how things operate, how things work,

and this was no different.

Her experience with IBC and working with me,

I mean it basically foretold what would happen

when, you know, she got this diagnosis

and she wasn't just going to take

whatever the doctor was suggesting,

she was gonna, you know, ask questions,

ask very pertinent questions,

and she was gonna get to the bottom

of what would ultimately be the best decision for herself.

And to see her,

for me, it really has been a miraculous journey

that I've been witness to over the last seven months.

And it's not by mistake.

When you are as diligent as she is

and you take full responsibility for yourself,

and this ties into IBC

because you are taking responsibility for your capital,

you are putting yourself in charge of that capital.

She has made decisions in her life

that now have allowed her

to really live to her full potential

and IBC plays a huge part in that.

And I'm so grateful for Nelson Nash

for coming up with this concept, for teaching all of us,

for making this podcast available

to help us teach listeners out there

what's possible with IBC

because this is just another example that,

you know, in Infinite Banking really is covering everything,

even things that we don't even think about.

And here is Kelly with her experience

being shared with all of you guys

just to show you that anything is possible

with Infinite Banking.

So I'm just so grateful, Kelly,

that you were willing

to share your experience with our audience

and I don't know what else to say.

I'm incredibly moved just being your partner in life

and knowing everything that you stand for,

it's a blessing so thank you for being here.

- Absolutely, thank you guys.

- Yeah, and I just want to say,

you know, during this whole thing,

you know, John and Kelly never even skipped a beat.

I mean other than a couple weeks

when they were originally out of the country,

John never stopped helping and working with clients

and keeping things going

and moving in the right direction

and recording this podcast with me

and keeping everything going.

And the sheer grit

that Kelly showed during this whole process

was just really awe inspiring

and I'm very thankful

that you were willing to share that with us

and our listeners.

Thank you so much.

- Absolutely, there is hope.

It can be, I would say reversed,

cure is not acceptable, it can be reversed

and quality life can be maintained.

So if anything, I just want to inspire people to have hope

and know that they can heal and recover.

And IBC is just one of those things that just empowers you

to have that freedom and hope.

- Well said.

- Amazing.

Well, we will post the link to Kelly's blog

so you can track what she did for her journey to recovery.

And you know, obviously as always,

if you have any questions,

just go to the fifthedition.com.

You can reach out to us and we're happy to help

and see how we can make things better in your life.

Kelly, thanks again, and John, thank you.

- All right, thank you. - Thank you, guys.