The secret to lasting wealth isn’t in your wallet — it’s in your mindset. Your financial success isn’t just about numbers, strategy or luck — it’s rooted in how you think and feel about yourself. The truth is, your mindset holds more power over your financial reality than you realize.

In this episode, Joyce Marter, renowned psychotherapist, speaker, and author of The Financial Mindset Fix: A Mental Fitness Program for an Abundant Life reveals how self-worth, emotional habits, and unconscious beliefs about money can either fuel your success or quietly hold you back. Joyce breaks down the surprising connection between mental health and financial prosperity — sharing practical strategies to shift your thinking, break free from self-sabotage, and create a more abundant, fulfilling life.

From embracing your value to cultivating healthier financial habits, she offers powerful insights you can apply right away.Whether you’re an entrepreneur, a leader, or someone striving for personal growth, this conversation will leave you inspired to rethink not just your relationship with money — but your relationship with yourself.

Key Takeaways in this Episode:

• Your Mindset Drives Your Money. Your beliefs about self-worth, success, and abundance influence your financial reality more than strategy or hard work ever could.
• Mental Health and Money Are Connected. Emotional well-being impacts your financial habits — from how you spend and save to how you pursue opportunities and handle setbacks.
• Self-Worth = Net Worth. Joyce explains how recognizing your own value is essential to breaking free from self-sabotage and embracing greater financial success.
• Shift from Scarcity to Abundance. Rewiring your mindset from “I can’t afford this” to “How can I make this possible?” opens the door to new opportunities and prosperity.
• Practical Strategies for Change. Joyce shares actionable tips to overcome limiting beliefs, improve your relationship with money, and build healthy financial habits.
• True Wealth Is More Than Money. Financial freedom starts with emotional and mental freedom — creating a balanced, fulfilling life rooted in confidence and self-empowerment.

"As we embrace our unique talents, align our gifts with the needs of the world, and put ourselves out there with more confidence and assertiveness, we become willing to expand our risks, step outside our comfort zones, and negotiate — all of which leads to a financial return. - Joyce Marter

About our Guest: 

Joyce Marter is a licensed psychotherapist, entrepreneur, and globally recognized expert in mental health and financial wellness. She founded and sold a multimillion-dollar mental health company and now serves as a keynote speaker, corporate trainer, and consultant. Joyce’s award-winning book, *The Financial Mindset Fix: A Mental Fitness Program for an Abundant Life*, has been published in four languages and earned eight book awards. Featured by CNN, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, and MTV, Joyce empowers individuals and organizations to transition from surviving to thriving through practical, holistic success strategies that integrate mental fitness and financial wellness. 

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Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's edition of The Marketing Media Money podcast. I am so excited because today we're going to talk about wealth, and that's one of my favorite topics. So what if you could amplify your financial wellness by fine tuning your mental health? Who knew those two things were in common? Right? Today we're going to dive into a transformative discussion that bridges the gap between financial prosperity and mental health, and how shifting your mindset can lead not to just better mental health, but to a richer life in every sense. Because it isn't just about numbers, it's about changing the way you think about wealth and success. And I am very, very excited to have a dear friend, Joyce Marder, here with me today. But let me tell you a little bit about her, because I gotta tell you, she is an expert on this topic. She's a licensed psychotherapist, entrepreneur and globally recognized expert in mental health and financial wellness. She founded and sold a multi million dollar mental health company and now serves as a keynote speaker, corporate trainer and consultant. Joyce's award winning book, the financial mindset fix, a mental fitness program for an abundant life has been published in four languages and earned eight Book Awards. She's been featured by CNN Forbes, the Wall Street Journal and MTV and Joyce empowers individuals and organizations to transition from surviving to thriving through practical, holistic success strategies that integrate mental fitness and financial wellness. So I have to tell you, I love that. Thank you so much for being here with me. Joyce,

My pleasure Patty, thank you for the kind introduction.

You're welcome. I have to tell you, I think a lot of times people don't realize these two things actually go together. But when you think about it, imposter syndrome, burnout, all those things that is our mental well being. So I feel like this is really a great topic. And I think it's a great topic because I don't think people put those two things together. And I think this discussion is going to be really good. So everybody you're going to want to have been in paper here, because this is going to be some really great stuff. So let's just kind of jump right in. So choice. How would you say understanding our mental health enhances our financial decision making process?

Well, I noticed early on in my practice that as my clients made progress in therapy, they started to earn more money, and I realized it's because as we embrace our unique talents and we align our gifts with indeed in the world, and we put ourselves out in the world with more confidence assertiveness, we're willing to expand our risks and our comfort zones and negotiate all of that has a financial return. So number one, check in with your self esteem Patty you mentioned imposter syndrome. Perfectionism is another aspect of our ego that sometimes gets in the way of our feelings of self worth, and we also have a lot of psychological defensiveness, rationalization, defense mechanisms like denial, intellectualization that keep us from our financial prosperity. And just like you said, if we're dealing with clinical burnout, which I think most of us are, after several years of chronic change and uncertainty that's going to impair our ability to think creatively, to be productive and to have the energy to really thrive in our businesses.

And I think that is really important, because that's why we got business in the first place, right? So what psychological barriers kind of hinder our financial prosperity? And could you share some strategies that could kind of break those barriers down? Because I don't think we realize them. Sometimes, because we're in them, and a lot of times when we're in them, we don't see them. So what strategies could we put into place to break them down,

Number one would be to be mindful of self limitation. And I have a little story around this. When I first started my private practice, I had coffee with my buddy Steve, who was also starting his private practice. This was in the late 90s in Chicago, and he said, Joyce, how much money do you want to make? And I said, Gosh, it would be great if I could make 60k and he said, Ooh, gross. I want to make over 100 and I said, Do you think that's possible? He said, of course, that's possible. Well, that year, I made 60k and Steve made well over 100 and I thought, Oh, my goodness, am I setting my own ceilings with thinking small and just asking for enough to pay my bills or and support my current lifestyle? So Steve went on to win Shark Tank beyond Oprah's Favorite Things, he's bought and sold multiple businesses. So I started changing my money mindset. And blowing that, blowing the ceiling off that self limitation, and really expanding my thinking to think, you know, I could be a multi millionaire like Steve. And so self limitation is one another is self sabotage. And a lot of us grew up with cultural, religious or gender messages about money. So maybe we heard that people with a lot of money are greedy and selfish and bad, and somehow we're unconsciously pushing money away, because deep down, we believe that's true, and so we want to become conscious of those early life messages so that they're not causing self sabotage. We also know that the basics of money management really, truly isn't rocket science, right? It's kind of like nutrition, like we know that we're supposed to, you know, earn more than we spend, and we're supposed to save and invest for the future, just like we're supposed to eat healthy and work out. But it's our psychology that causes us to make fumbles and Bumbles and to suffer. And so that's really what I want to teach people, is how to use cognitive behavioral therapy, narrative therapy and mindfulness to improve your money mindset.

It's really important too, because we do get a lot of that from growing up, right, especially in the 40 and up crowd, right? You know, because our parents had it so different. I mean, they still come from the get a good job, stay at that job, work there for 30 years, you're going to get a pension, that type of thing. And we know that doesn't really exist so much anymore. And I know when I was growing up. I'm the only entrepreneur in my family, and I know my parents, they didn't get it. They were really proud of me, but they didn't really understand it. And I can't even tell you how many times I heard my mom say, Patty, when is enough? Enough? Girl Like, you know, and stuff. And I remember at first it kind of played with my head a little bit, but then all of a sudden, I did some inner work, right? You know, I did the inner work, and I thought, no, that's your story. That's not my story. And sometimes it still pops up, and I can hear sometimes on my shoulder, like saying the little thing, like, she'll pop into my head, and I'm like, I just dust that off. And like, Nope, that's your story. That's not my story. And but it's a decision, I you know, it's a decision, and sometimes it gets triggered and it comes back up, and I have to make that decision again, right? And I'm okay with that, right? You know? But I do think that it does happen, and I've shared with many of my friends where they share some of the things that their parents and their peers had said to them growing up. And I don't think we even really realize how much it still is there in the back of our mind, and then it just pops up. So I think that it is really important to either do the inner work, hire someone work on that, because you're right. Like you said, $60,000 over $100,000 and now he's a multi millionaire, right? Which, you know, we know you're not $60,000 anymore, but, like, I totally get that. So I love that you've created this framework around this, right? So can you share how your framework leverages? I love that word, leverages Mental Health Insights that'll optimize our financial behaviors, because that's what they are. They're just behaviors that we learned, right? So how would we leverage those? So share about your framework, because I really think it is powerful. So

I've had the blessing of counseling 10s of 1000s of individuals across cultures, religions, socioeconomic statuses, and the blessing of learning from them. And through this, I identified 12 universal truths, 12 keys to success, mindsets that we can practice and cultivate that are empirically proven to improve both mental well being and financial prosperity. So these include abundance, presence, essence, which is the opposite of ego, detachment, positivity, resilience, self love, support and more. And so my program has exercises, journaling prompts, self assessment tools to build these skill sets so that we can blossom personally and professionally, and I've lived this so thank you for mentioning that I'm no longer at the 60k I went through really a dark day in my finances, where I started a business with $500 50,000 of student loans. Ended up in cash flow hell. Was facing bankruptcy and was broken open. And it was then that I learned my most important lesson, which was humility and asking for help. And once I asked for help, help came out of the woodwork, and I had a neighbor who said, you need a business valuation. I didn't even know what that was, but. I brought my QuickBooks file to my CPA. I thought he was going to tell me I'd have to close shop, and instead, he told me, my business was worth a seven figure multiple despite having a lot of debt. So just like you, I had my sister saying, Joyce, why are you hiring all these therapists and signing all these leases like, what are you doing? And I questioned myself, and I wondered, Am I this crazy narcissist that's building this business and it's all fake? But no, I believed in the mission, and it was a profitable business, and five years later, I was able to sell it for a seven figure multiple and an eight figure exit. And I want to help other people do the same.

Oh, that is powerful. You know, I think, you know, thinking about the things that impact us, right? How? How does the financial traditions? Because that's what we're talking about, right? And influences from our upbringing impact our money management. Because, like we just said a few minutes ago, I know where that came up for me in my family, but the fact that is, we don't really know. So those are financial traditions and influences from our upbringing. But how does it impact our money management? And more importantly, what steps can we take to use that knowledge for better financial health, right? Because it's all about, Oh, good. You don't know what you don't know, but once you do know, now, what steps should we take to use that knowledge for better financial health?

Absolutely, great question, and there's a couple components in there that I want to address. So in my story, my father grew up in the Great Depression, and so he understandably had a scarcity mindset around money. And right now we're living during great economic uncertainty. And so that's happening again for many of us. As a therapist, I believe we all unconsciously recreate the familiar. So whatever money story you grew up with, we often are attracted to repeat that. So my dad worked tremendously hard. He was the first to graduate from college in his family. He, in fact, got his MBA from Harvard. Was a successful executive. But when I was a child, he became unemployed during the automotive recession, became clinically depressed, and we my parents fought about money, so I grew up with a lot of fear and anxiety around money, and kind of this strange dichotomy, where on the outside it looked like everything was great, but on the inside there was a lot of shame and anxiety. And I created the exact same thing, where on the outside it looked like I had this great business. On the inside I couldn't make payroll or pay rent on time, and was having insomnia and panic attacks. So when we repeat those stories, we need to realize we need to become conscious of those past financial traumas. And some of us have intergenerational financial trauma. You know, if your ancestors went through slavery or the Holocaust or were immigrants and they went without that actually lives in our epigenetics, in our DNA, and so we need to use cognitive behavioral therapy to change our ways of Thinking about money and reroute our default neural pathways and embrace abundance. And just like you said, you said that, Mom, that's your story. That's your narrative. Well, we don't have to be the protagonist only of our life story. We can also be the author. So you're one of the most empowered people I know, Patty, so you became the author of your money story, and look what you've created. It's beyond abundant.

Well that he was some work. Didn't just wake up one day and do it, because, you know, when I look back, I'm the only person in my family that went to college as well. But not only that, my parents, they never even owned a home. So every few years, we were moving, and that was kind of like insecurity to me. I didn't realize at the time, until I started doing the work. Sometimes you don't even notice it, right? Or, like you said, it's familiar. But I remember when I grew up, I'm thinking to myself, You know what? I'm not just going to one house. I want more than one. I think I realized the deal, right? And real estate like was going to be a big thing now, I mean, some could say that's why I became a realtor and was in the mortgage industry for a while, right? You know for sure, a lot of that was because, no, I wanted to make sure that was never going to happen to me. And so for me, it was like I tied my security to that. Now, I had to get past that too and realize that just having houses wasn't in itself going to do it for me, right? But I did realize that growing up, that was the story that we all heard. And I was like, No, I just didn't want to tell that story. But more importantly than that, I have six daughters, and I didn't want that to be the story my daughters heard, either, right? And I. Have to tell you, Joyce, looking back, I don't know even know how, like, really, it was just by the grace of God, really, I remember when I had my oldest daughter. I remember looking down at her. I can, I mean, I can remember it so clearly right now, looking down at her, she was like, 30 seconds old. And I said, this will not be your story.

That's amazing Patty that is, that is truly amazing. And so, yeah, you had kind of a pendulum swing. Your childhood motivated you to to achieve what your parents went without and and to want to do that for your legacy, for your children. And I'm a mother as well, and my kids have given me wonderful compliments as well about the model that I've given to them as a woman, as an empowered, financially independent woman, and how that has opened doors for them. My my two daughters are majoring in STEM and they're killing it. And so yes, it's important for us to look at all of that. So I'm so glad that you're doing that work, and you brought up another important piece, and that is that you've worked very hard. And this isn't just about changing your mindset. We have to do the work. And one of my 12 chapters, one of the 12 mindsets that that I identified is responsibility. So we have to shift away from blame. You know, maybe our parents, maybe we had an x, or a former business partner, or somebody who did us wrong financially. And we need to to honor those experiences and grieve them and let them go and accept responsibility for our current Money Story and our future going forward, because nobody is going to change it, except ourselves. And it does take tremendous work, and for someone like you, people see the tip of the iceberg and think, oh my gosh, Patty, is this blessed person, but I know how hard you work, and it does take a lot of responsibility

That, you know, for me, because I had all those daughters, I didn't want them to have to worry about this type of stuff, but I also didn't want them to be entitled either, right, you know, and there was a balance for that, and so I just really wanted them to really understand now, once I went into the mortgage industry and owned my own mortgage company, obviously being in credit and all that kind of stuff, I also learned really early on about money and really understanding how wealth is made, but more importantly, how wealth is kept. And so I taught that to my children very, very young, right? They had bank accounts really, really early. They had portfolios before they even graduated from high school. They understood risk aversion and understood at a forecast. So all those things I taught them before they even got out of school, and so they knew. So all my children were pretty much very self sufficient and had very good money habits and understood how money was made. But that's because that's the legacy I wanted for them. That was legacy I wanted for them. So when I did the work, I wanted to make sure. And just like you, my kids have said to me so many times, so many times, oh my gosh, Mom, thank you so much for all that you taught me, and I love it now, because one of the things that I not to say, I wouldn't, so don't get me wrong, or anybody that's listening, but I have really been very thankful that when my children grew up and left home that they didn't ever have to come back. They'd never have to come back, and I didn't never have to really help them in that aspect, right? You know that I taught them how to handle money? Yeah, I am kind of sort of like their financial advisor. They do still to this day, years later, when they're making financial decisions, like to run them by me, not necessarily to have me tell them what to do, but just kind of validate and what do you think mom kind of Warren so and I love that, but I love that they're able to make those decisions and that I know that they're going to be taken care of and my grandchildren as well. And I'd like to look back and think, wow, how different would that have been if I didn't not just do the work, but recognize that I needed to, because we don't have to do it alone, right? You know, we're not by ourselves. We ask for help, and then we let somebody walk the walk with us and take that journey with us and help me. And I had that thank goodness and stuff though, so and I feel like it is even easier now to find that help than it was when I was there, right?

Absolutely. Well, how amazing that you gave your daughters the gift of financial literacy in such a robust and advanced way, frankly, at a young age, and so that that financial literacy is so important. As a therapist, I've seen unfortunately that even highly educated people, many of us, especially women, unfortunately, are not finding. Financially literate. So that is really a foundation to have the education around the basics of money management, around investing, around, you know, how to grow. I'm I'm continuing to learn. I'm learning about VC investing for now, for example. So we can all, you know, listen to podcasts like yours and read books like yours and mine and and so that we can grow and develop and teach our loved ones. Because what a better feeling than to have the peace of mind of financial security and stability for our loved ones.

I think so. So if people are thinking, I mean a lot of talk. You know, it's a buzzword, really, scarcity, abundance, right? People like to use it a lot, but it is true, or they wouldn't, right, not all the time. Do people understand, even or recognize that they may have a scarcity mindset, or maybe only around certain things, maybe not like in everything, but around certain things, right? So when they're moving or wanting to make a decision to move from a scarcity mindset to one of abundance, it can be very transformative. So could you outline some specific actions the listeners can start today if they wanted to cultivate an abundance mindset, like, maybe they're listening going, Oh, wow. I didn't think I had a scarcity mindset, but maybe I do about certain things, like, how could I do the work? So what are some specific actions that they could actually take today if they wanted to cultivate a more abundant mindset?

Well, I love your point that abundance isn't just about money. Abundance is about love, health, resources, like support, and many of us have these thoughts of self limitation, which are rooted in scarcity. For example, even with dating, if you've ever heard someone say there's nobody good to date in Texas, well, that's a scarcity mindset around money. And if somebody had an abundant mindset, they would say, Love is available everywhere, and I'm deserving of it. So one suggestion that I have, because abundance is rooted in worth and lack is rooted in competition and lack, is to be mindful of your language. Whenever you say sentences that start with I can't, I won't, I don't. I'm not. Stop, stop and rewrite that sentence. I can, I will, I do, I am, and then, yeah, it's a simple practice. As a therapist, my my clients know that I'm like whenever I hear those statements that I make them, you know, reframe it, because that's my favorite thing about being a therapist, is mirroring back to my clients their unique strengths and gifts. And when we embrace those, we embrace abundance. And I also want to comment patty on your point that people can come into wealth or abundance, and they can lose it if they don't feel deserving. We've all heard of the people who won the lottery or the NFL players that come into tremendous wealth, and then it's gone in a couple of years, because we unconsciously push it away. So just like your daughters ask you for advice, I believe we each need a board of financial advisors, and they those can be accountability partners. It can be a 12 step program, like under earners anonymous, or debtors anonymous, or gamblers anonymous. A financial advisor to talk with your partner regularly around money, all of that keeps us in check. Because I know even though I've had this blessing of selling my business, I tend to overspend. So my financial advisor is my accountability partner in really giving me a lot of checks and balances to make sure that I don't cause myself financial self harm.

That is really important when we think about it. I love that you have that exercise of reframing, that reframing is really important to me. When I was growing up, I had this practice with my kids called options. And whenever they would say something, I'd be like, well, what are your options? And I would make them say it to me. It's like, well, I could have a better attitude about it. Maybe I wouldn't be grounded all weekend. I could, like, you know, whatever, even when it was like, What do you want to eat? I don't know. Well, I don't know, what are your options? Oh, I guess I could have baloney and tea, you know, whatever. Like, you know what I mean. And I felt like it helped them to make better decisions when they could think about their options. But if they say, got in trouble for, like, maybe they were late for their curfew, whatever the case may be. And I said, Oh, well, you're grounded, right? And then they would kind of sometimes start to have a bad attitude. And I'd be like, what are your options? That's all you have to say. What are your options? And then they would start saying, well, I could have a better I could at least clean up my room. You know? They. Are telling me all the things that they could do with it. And now I hear them say that to my grandkids too, like I notice I hear them say that aside. And so I find to myself I even say it, and I hear them say it too, like when they call me sometimes you're like, so Mom, what do you think my options are? So like, that is a sentence in our family that has become really strong. But what are our options?

I love that, and it's also rooted in abundance, because when we have a scarcity mindset, we see the barriers. So we see closed doors with your kids and food. Example, my kids would say there's nothing to eat in this house.

Options. What are your options? I even say it to myself. I mean, I even say to myself sometimes, sometimes when something's going on, I'm like, oh, yeah, I have to get that done, you know, whatever. And I'm thinking through and I'm like, okay, so what are my options? And then immediately it's like, it's almost like a, like a reality check. Soon as I say one of my options, my brain automatically goes, Oh, it could be like this. And then, and then I just go right back in. It's like, so funny, but I just feel like it has really, really worked for me. I don't even know where I came up with it. It just sort of happens. I can't even trace it back. I just know that it really, really works for me. But I love yours, and I actually want to, I'm going to write them down. I love them.

Oh, that's great. Thank you so much. I'm so glad. And, yeah, your options. Idea is great. I've noticed with entrepreneurs that entrepreneurs tend to look past those barriers, where as I find many others tend not to like for example, people see the obstacles and the problems with why a business wouldn't work, and that keeps them from taking action. Where an entrepreneur tends to push past that and be innovators and and problem solvers and refusioners? Well, yes, exactly.

And I love that, because that's the type of people I just surround myself with too. You know, even when we would hear people say, for me, when I hear people say, oh, I want to be in a room with like minded women. I'm like, well, that's great as a starting point. I want to be in a room of heart centered, diverse minded thing so they know my perspective and have different insights and stuff. And when I say that to people now, they're like, what? And then when I say, they're like, Oh, I kind of like that too, right? But I think that sometimes we hear something, we just stay with the same thing, right? So Joyce, here's something that really, I've been like waiting to talk to you about, because I think it's so important. I knew my audience would love it too. Let's talk about boundaries, right? Let's talk about the importance of setting financial boundaries and how they can safeguard both our mental and financial health. Now that we know so much of how they're entwined together, which I think is so powerful, I have to tell you, what would you say about how to set those financial boundaries like in the most positive way, right? Because it does safe harvest,

Yes. So we need to practice assertiveness, which is that happy medium between being passive or aggressive. So I always say that healthy self esteem is midway between Diva and doormat, and the diva may be unre not respectful of other people's boundaries, and may be entitled in grandiose and financially, may be an over spender. The doormat may be an under earner and allow other people to take advantage of them. Financially healthy. Self esteem is in the middle where we respect ourselves and others and we communicate assertively. We find our voice, and we set limits and boundaries. We express our needs clearly. We say no when we need to, and we're diplomatic. And so financial boundaries occur with our partners, with our kids. We want to give our kids financial roots and wings, with our vendors, with our clients, even with people, you know, if we're buying a home or we're leasing a car and so again, this is rooted in our self esteem and self worth, and when we have true self worth, we set healthy boundaries. But I've seen in my practice, people experience, for example, financial co dependency, which is when they're over caretaking or over functioning, perhaps for a partner, a business partner or a young adult child, and financially enabling the other person to under function. Or they're a victim of financial infidelity, which you know, if you have a business partner that's siphoning off money, or your partner has secret investments that you don't know about, that's financial infidelity, and also there's financial abuse. I think a lot of us know about emotional abuse and physical abuse, but we don't think about financial abuse and. That happens often in financially dependent relationships, and so it's important to get help and support from a financial therapist and others to heal and recover and learn how to set those healthy boundaries and relationships.

That is very, very important. I know that when I was in still in the mortgage industry, I I'm a shopper. So everybody knows it, right? That knows me, knows I'm a shopper, but I actually do have boundaries, even for myself, right? You know, I think it's funny, but I didn't realize it. And for example, I have a friend who just recently paid $1,800 to buy herself a pair of shoes. I said, Wow. Really. Wow. Now I have to tell you, I've never bought myself a $1,800 pair of shoes, although I probably have about 300 pairs. I have a lot of shoes. Maybe not bad, that's anymore but, but my point is that, in my mind, for myself, I have this amount of money that I think is appropriate for how I feel, how much I'm willing to spend for a pair of shoes, right? Right? And it's a high number, $1,800 but it is a high number. And so I remember, when I was in the mortgage industry, I used to reward myself that every time I closed a deal, so to speak, right? You know? And everything went great. I had all this criteria. It had to do this, this, this, but if it did all those things, I would reward myself and buy myself a pair of shoes or a new purse or whatever. And I was totally okay with that. I was totally okay with it. I loved it and stuff, and it gave me something to look forward to. But then at some point time, I was like, Okay, how many more purses do you need, and how many pairs of shoes do you need? And so I just kind of told myself that one of the things that I do for me is I trust myself. I trust myself. I don't spend money if I don't have it, because it doesn't matter how much money have. Many times in my life I've had money than not had as much money than had money. You know what I mean, until you really get good at really understanding how to make sure that doesn't happen, right? As you guess, I'm older and get better at it, but I have to say that for me, I'm very, very clear on what those are, and I trust that I don't buy something if I don't think I should buy it or should, even though I don't use the word should very often, but meaning it's just not the appropriate time, right? You know what I mean? Because there's just lots of times, and I feel very comfortable with that. I've also taught that to my children as well, but I think that I don't know why, like this podcast has had a lot of children's stories in there, because it's making my points. But just to say this point, even when my children, when you were talking about them, learning that, I remember when I used to take them, I had six daughters, and taking girls school shopping, that was, you know, like they Oh, Mom, can I have this $50 sweater? Can I have these, you know, $110 jeans? And I thought to myself, huh? How can I make that work? And, you know what I did? I just gave them all an amount of money. Here's the amount of money. I'll take you shopping. You can have a lot of school clothes, or a little school clothes. You just need to know how to do it. And when they would go shopping, and they'd say, Ma, this one here says that if you buy one, you get one for 50% off. They literally were in elementary school. And I was like, How much is that? And if they couldn't tell me how much that was, they didn't get to have it. And so they would, I would say, okay, get the paper where the sales are, and I would take them and stuff. They got really good at getting a lot of school clothes by learning to wait to the weekend to see if it was going to be on sale next week or whatever, and stuff, though. And I just think it's kind of a learning process that we just learn. I know that I'm worth it, and if I want something, I will get it, but I don't do it just to do it anymore.

Well, you have financial self love and financial self discipline, and, like you said, healthy boundaries with yourself, and you've taught that for your daughters. And that's not an easy practice. It takes practice and development and consciousness and energy, and you've done that, and congratulations on that, because that's difficult for many of us. And your shoe story reminds me of I had a client come in and she said, Joyce, I had an epiphany. And I said, what she said, My mother is the reason that I have so many ugly shoes. And I I laughed. I was like, What are you talking about and she said she was really frugal, and told us not to spend a lot of money on material possessions. And her 10 year old daughter said, Mom, your shoes are so embarrassing. You have such ugly shoes, and you have so many of them. She was like, why not? Instead of having 300 pairs of ugly shoes, get yourself three pairs that you feel graded. And so my client realized it's also rooted in our self worth. And so that self worth, net worth, connection is huge. I believe that love is the true currency of life, and that when we learn to love ourselves and be heart centeredly connected with others. Yes, and we align our gifts with altruism and generosity in the ways that you do Patty that I'm so impressed with. We can be philanthropists. We get into the flow of love and life and prosperity. I love that.

So what's psychological like? You know? What psychological techniques do you find that are most effective in overcoming this financial self sabotage and some of these things that we do that maybe we don't realize it, maybe we are kind of opening our mind now and go, Oh, maybe I do have a few, I suppose that I didn't know. What are some psychological techniques that are effective in overcoming that once we choose and are aware and we decide that, wow, we are kind of self sabotaging ourselves.

Well, one of my favorite practices is mindfulness, and so when we apply mindfulness to money, it can help us in so many different ways. So for example, mindfulness has been around for 1000s of years, and the philosophy is when we root ourselves in the here and now and then the present moment. We're going to be more calm, we're going to feel better mentally and physically, and we're going to be more conscious so that we can make conscious choices rather than being emotionally reactive. And many of us second guess or ruminate about the past or we worry about financial uncertainty of the future. So if we practice mindfulness strategies like meditation, deep breathing, yoga, we get grounded in the here and now, we facilitate equanimity, which is mental calmness, and from that place, we can use the wisdom of our intuition and our bodies to guide financial decisions, rather than just our intellect. So when we check in with our heart and we our gut and we decide, you know, is this a good decision for me? For example, when I was selling my business, I had eight prospective buyers. I sat with them and thought, How do I feel in my body as I'm speaking with this person and one person, I felt nauseous and I realized I didn't trust him, and what he was saying did not feel aligned in my mind, body and spirit. So when we use mindfulness, it can help us make more informed decisions. It can also help us detach from financial instability, when the stock market goes down, or if we go through a recession, it helps us zoom out and look at the big picture without being super reactive. It helps us have that groundedness and calm. And when my business was going through that cash flow hell, I used mindfulness to practice healthy detachment and basically compartmentalize. So to take all my financial problems, kind of put them in a visual container and set it aside so that I could do the work that I could, you know, show up at my office and talk to my staff and build the business and solve the problems so that we could recover financially. So mindfulness would be definitely my number one psychological strategy.

That's actually really a good one. So let's talk about your book. Thank you. Talk about your book. So I really think the financial mindset fix right a mental fitness program for an abundant life. I have to tell you what a big title, and obviously spent in four languages and all those, all those awards. So that's really great. So in the book, is your framework? In the book? So does your the book go through the framework and those 12 steps? I kind of feel it's really interesting that there's 12 steps, right?

Y'all, Isn't that ironic? It's kind of funny, but yes, the framework is there are these 12 universal truths, so they're each a chapter. And in the beginning, I share a story, short story, either from my life or my clients experiences, to really highlight the importance of that mindset. And then I have research and studies that explain, you know that really back it up, and then you dive right in to exercises, applying it to you. So journaling prompts, proven exercises from cognitive behavioral therapy, family systems, narrative therapy, mindfulness and more. And I have these self assessment wheels, which are pretty cool, like there's a financial health wheel, and treating yourself within your means, like you were talking about with the purses or shoes, is one one of the spokes on the financial health wheel, but others are budgeting and saving and investing and financial literacy, and you measure how well you're doing in each of the categories and identify areas of needed improvement, and then develop an action plan. So it's not a get rich quick program, but it I've had people call me and say I got a raise after chapter one and a promotion after chapter five.

So that is fabulous. Thank you. That is good. So a lot of times we like to think about a financial plan. Right, yeah, how should one say tailor their financial plans if they wanted to support both mental well being and their financial goals? Well,

I think it's really important to look at your financial plan and your developmental context, so how old you are and where you're at in your life, in your education, in your career, in your family, because our financial plan changes as we, for example, get married, get divorced, have kids or become empty nesters like myself and so having an advisor, you know, or even a few that help you develop that one year, three year, five year plan and that long term legacy plan. And I know my advisor, my husband, and I meet with him quarterly. He shows us our projections and how we're doing and and, and so we know, based on the choices we make now, where we're going to be in the future, you know, within reason. And so it's important to have that financial consciousness, because in the past, I stuck my head in the sand. I was so afraid and anxious about my finances that I avoided looking at my financial plan and looking at my budget, because it I had so much shame around it, and it wasn't until I had that experience of almost having to file bankruptcy, that I was like, I have to look at the stuff for it's never going to improve.

And I think it's really not just commendable, but phenomenal, really Joyce that as someone who does what you do, and then having that and being able to put them together, because I have to tell you, I don't really think most people put those two things together, like they may recognize that both of them exist, but not how they overlap with each other. And I think, I mean, that's just like, Oh my goodness. Like talk about an aha, light bulb moment, right? Is really thinking about how one is affecting the other. And so when you know that, you know, knowledge is such a beautiful thing, right? You know? So what future trends like? I don't, yeah, I'm in marketing. What future trends do you foresee at, say, the intersection of psychology and financial planning, and how can we prepare to leverage those changes so things are coming. There's always trends, things change. How can we leverage those what do you what do you see? What should people start thinking about now? What should they start doing now? Because you're right. We live in a world right now where it's so much going on. What do you think? Well,

I think in this intersection of behavioral finance, which is psychology and finance, that there's all these exciting new trends coming, and especially from the younger generations, from the Gen Z's and millennials. And this might sound silly, but even on Tiktok, so there's trends like loud budgeting, which is, for example, I have a 22 year old daughter. She did this when she moved in with roommates who were from very wealthy families, and she said, Hey guys, I'm not rich, so let's talk about what we're going to each buy for the apartment. So loud budgeting is when you're just up front like, Okay, we're going out to dinner. I'm trying to save money right now. Could we have a potluck at my house instead? So following some of these Money Trends, spaving is another one that's been talked about a lot on Tiktok, which is basically how advertisers get us to spend more with the illusion of saving. And sometimes it works, and sometimes it's a pitfall or a trap. So just following some of those trends and becoming educated and how they might work to help you or harm you, I think, is really important

That always comes down to awareness, doesn't it? Staying awareness so Joyce, this has been phenomenal, and you have been so generous and so for everybody listening, if you are listening or watching, just look below. There's a button there for you to get her book right. However, I believe that you're not just going to want to read her book. Going to want to connect with Joyce. So Joyce, what is the best way for someone to connect you there? We're going to have all your social is below, right? All your socials, below your website, all of that stuff. But where do you hang out? And where is your preferred method? Like, where should they connect? And I

Know they love to connect on LinkedIn, and I check my direct messages regularly. So Joy smarter on LinkedIn, and happy to be of service to you any way that I can.

I love that. So for everybody, you're going to want to click those buttons below. You're going to want to get a copy of her book for sure, connect with her on LinkedIn. That's always my preferred method as well. And if you enjoyed today's episode, and I'm sure you did, please like review, subscribe. Five to the podcast on your favorite listening platform. If you haven't already checked out copy of the magazine, marketing, media money, please Grab Your Free Copy at m3 digital mag.com and that's m3digitalmag.com. Make sure you reach out to Joyce. I'm going to tell you she's a wealth of information and one of the kindest, most wonderful people I've ever met, and I have to tell you that she really like early you might not remember when I was saying all of those things about all the places that she's been on media. She doesn't just talk or talk. She walks her walk. She's going to be somebody you're going to want to connect with. So make sure you do that, and until then, we will see you next week, thank you so much again, Joyce, for being here. I really appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon. See you next week. Bye. Now.