Want to know how my autism self-diagnosis has affected my relationship with my husband? (I will apologize to autistic listeners here as an ableist perspective is still something we're working on, and he also uses some outdated terminology probably from an old book he's started twice - but not yet finished - on supporting partners with Asperger's Syndrome.)

Curious about whether he identifies as Filipino-American... or not? And how his perspective on race differs from mine?

Want to hear how he sent a chicken up into space...and then found out what the two pink lines of a pregnancy test mean?

Last year, when we were coming up on our 200th podcast episode, I asked my husband Alvin if he would be willing to record a podcast episode. I had envisioned listeners asking the questions and him answering - but he wanted me to join as well!

One of the first things we learned was that Alvin cannot be succinct. (Well, technically speaking, this was not a new lesson for me - and interviewer Iris had tried really hard to prepare him for succinctness by asking for his 'elevator pitch' - but he just couldn't do it!)

So we ended up cutting the episode when it was already over an hour and we hadn't covered half of the questions listeners had submitted...and interviewers Iris and Corrine graciously agreed to return for a Part 2. So here it is!

Other episodes mentioned

175: I’ll be me; can you be you?

200: Ask Alvin Anything (Part 1!)

Jump to Highlights

01:22Introducing this episode04:28Alvin talks about how Jen's autism diagnosis helps their relationship while Jen shares how it helps in their daily life and parenting.12:47Alvin and Jen talk about how they decided to become parents. 25:10Alvin discusses his upbringing in a predominantly White area, his evolving awareness of his Filipino heritage, and how his wife Jen's advocacy work has shaped his understanding of race and culture.38:13Alvin talks about his journey from wanting to be seen as White to embracing his Filipino heritage and identifying as a Brown person.46:32Alvin encourages dads to be actively involved in parenting, prioritize their partners, and be present in family life. 57:15Alvin and the hosts engage in a quickfire round of questions, discussing topics from parenting to personal preferences. 01:00:50Wrapping up

I think we should have a word of the day.

Body humping legs.

I think the word of the day should be brevity.

That's the challenge.

Today, I already got more YouTube likes than the last four episodes combined. Or maybe not.

I didn't get one email from somebody who said how much she enjoyed and appreciated the novel length elevator pitch.

Really?

Love it here.

Hi, I'm Adrian in suburban Chicagoland. And this is Your Parenting Mojo with Jen Lumanlan. Jen is working on a series of episodes based on the challenges you are having with your child. From tooth brushing to sibling fighting, to the endless resistance, to whatever you ask. Jen will look across all the evidence from thousands of scientific papers across a whole range of topics related to parenting and child development to help you see solutions to the issue you're facing that hadn't seen possible before. If you'd like a personalized answer to your challenge, just make a video if possible, or an audio clip if not, that's less than one minute long that describes what's happening and email it to support@YourParentingMojo.com and listen out for your episode soon.

Hello, hello, and welcome to the second part of Ask Alvin Anything. We really appreciate all the listeners and members who took the time to send in their questions through video, audio, and email. I don't think Jen we receive questions through smoke signals so you know, I covered myself there. And if you haven't already listened to or seen part one of Ask Alvin Anything, we encourage you to check it out first, and I believe we will have a link in the show notes.

Hi, I'm Corrine. And Iris and I will be co-hosting part two of this conversation with Alvin. So if you listen to the last episode, you got to meet us then. But we'll do a quick reintroduction. I'm Corinne and I'm a mama to a two year old and I live in Portland, Oregon with my family. I found out about Your Parenting Mojo through Courtney Dern who is from Beachstreet Parenting, which is an awesome community. We're a part of here in Portland. And I got to chat with Alvin at one of Jen's workshops, and I was really inspired and glean some inspiration and great insights. And I am excited to continue that today in this part two. And get it's great to be back here with you Iris as well.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Corrine. It's been really exciting working with you like planning and not just this final thing, but we had some prep work for this. So hanging out with you has been really, really great. And I'm Iris from Vancouver, Canada, and originally from the Philippines and I am mama to Malaya. She's nine years old. She's affectionate, smart and feisty. And I'm also mom to a seven month old Labradoodle was also affectionate, smart, but not as feisty as Malaya which is good, good bridge. And I've been following Jen's work for over five years and been a member of the Your Parenting Mojo community. And one gift that I received in September is meeting Jen and her family in person as part of Jen's book tour here in Vancouver. So it was a real pleasure for me and my family to hang out with Jen, Carys, and Alvin. And to take us back where we left off, here's Corinne to start off our conversation with... I'm going to describe Alvin as Jen's husband, Carys's father, biker, creative, and business consultant, and an extra ordinary artist photographer. So folks, let's give it up for Alvin Lumanlan.

Oh my goodness, I'm just thankful that that Iris fed me lumpia when we were in Vancouver, that's all I have to say. Okay.

Corrine will take it from here.

Yes. Welcome back Alvin. It sounds like people liked having you on Your Parenting Mojo. So maybe that's a good sign for for the future. Episode 300 maybe? So, welcome back listeners as well. Last time, we got to hear some really fun stories about the start of Jen and Alvin's relationship. And we want to circle back to the topic of their relationship. There were a few questions we didn't get to because we had so much to talk about last time.

That's not why we didn't get them.

It's my first time on the podcast.

Yeah, it was our first time too. So let's we'll, we'll give ourselves some slack that we had to make it a two part episode. But we want to start with a listener question. This one was emailed in by Sarah S. And Sarah wanted to hear more about Jen's autism self-diagnosis, and oh, and that that was something Jen shared about in episode 175 of Your Parenting Mojo. And so Sarah wrote in via email, "I'm curious how Jen's, autism self-diagnosis change anything about their marital and their family relationships and organization. And I assume organization, maybe you know what that means. I assume that means Your Parenting Mojo or your work, you know, maybe your both of your professions are.

And more broadly probably relationship.

Yeah. yeah, I think so. I'm not sure how to answer this question. No, because I, I've always struggled with this. But we've talked about this at times where we've been good, and in times that we've been stressed. And I think a lot of it sort of has to do with again, to back up the sort of point to Jen's book, around cultural expectations. You know, I was attracted to Jen, and love her for who she is. And that is because of and in spite of our, her various nuances. And I think probably that can be said about a lot of relationships and how people look at partners, potentially, right. So there's obviously stuff that initially in the relationship you find very endearing. And then over time, you might be like, Oh, God, that's annoying the heck out. But it doesn't change your love for for them. So I think autism or being on the spectrum, or whatever you call, it could potentially make sense of certain things. But I think it also where I'm confused or conflicted about is like putting a label on it. And like sort of grouping it with another subset, or potentially the population. Whereas in the past, I've just thought of these nuances as Jen. Now what's been helpful is, and again, I still trip up on like, a label or diagnosis or whatever, on the nuances where we differ, right? So I think what as part of the reframing for me, which I don't know that it changes, like someone who's neurodivergent, or neuro non-divergent, normal, whatever it's called, is like the idea that, I guess technically, your brain is wired to think a certain way versus my brain is wired to think maybe a different way. Where I struggle is like, why don't we just think about people generally like that? Right.

But, you know, like, we joked, we have a colleague or a family friend who used to be a professor for decades at MIT. And when she found out she's like, I knew. Oh, and by the way, everyone at MIT is like, autistic, right? I mean, general, a huge generalization. But like, I think we've culture has driven us towards, like an idea of success, an idea of how we should act, an idea of how we should behave. And that shapes how we look at ourselves, that shapes how we look at our children. And I think, putting a lens on it through this learning, or discovery, I don't know that it's helped me or made me more confused, because I feel like we should just be looking at each other through the lens of like, individuals versus like, again. She's, she's like blushing, laughing. I don't know what she's like. But I mean, I mean, it like it's like, in many ways, it's made me it's been more challenging with that discovery, because it sort of tangles things up a little bit. Whereas before, it's just like, it's Jen. Right now, it's like, Jen said autism was a change, or look at it now versus before, whereas before it just Jen, right? And accepted it or didn't, whatever. So, you know, she recommended a book for me to read earlier on and I got partially through it.

He got he got halfway through it. And the library wrote it off as lost because he'd had it for so long.

What's it was some book about, like, partnering with, what was it?

I don't remember what it was called. But I can find it And put the link in the show notes. Yeah, but

I read it and like I associated with some of the stuff and I like in reading it. I couldn't help but think how it almost felt like, yeah, what are those yellow cheat sheet notes that we listen to Cliff Notes? I don't know. I mean, I'm dating myself.

I'm sure they're online now. Yeah,

I used to buy LM pamphlets on occasion, I felt was like a bit of a cliff notes, but it was like anything, it's not plug and play, I think it's to help understand. If there's any takeaway, I think from learning about it and reading the book, it's the idea that people have their own, I guess, narratives and stories, and the way they process things. And maybe folks who are neurodivergent are further along from folks who are deemed non-neurodivergent. But obviously, Jen is like, on the spectrum in terms of superpower spectrum versus, like, hard to function spectrum. But I don't know that it changed much.

Okay, let's pause here, like, because autistic people listening are cringing at this superpower level. So anyway, um, I think I can speak to some of that for with like, three very short anecdotes. When you were reading that book, you I remember a conversation when I was standing in the doorway of the bedroom one morning, And it was something to the effect of: See. So I was the crazy one. Turns out, you're the crazy one. So I think there was a sense of validation for you the the way you had been perceiving my actions, you know, the things, some of the things I do are not what neurotypical people would do.

That's true.

And that allowed you to then accept some of those things like when I walk around the house, turning the air purifiers off, because I can't stand the white noise. And before you would walk around behind me tie them all back on again. And then sometimes after that, you would actually be the one who would turn them off yourself. So I agree that labeling is not very helpful. And also, that labeling somehow enabled you to accept things that you've had previously only seen as annoying. I think is the second piece. And then the third piece is, it's really given us a way to understand the differences in how each other think in a way that I think we both perceive as positive. So for example, when you do an update to the website, and you show it to me, you want me to first say the things that I see that are good about it, and then give you any points where I would just assume we were on the same page that everything was good, except for the things that I want to change. And whereas he would get all stuck, and well, why don't you see all the good things? And I'm like I do, it's a really good thing. So I assumed that you knew that because I only said these few things need to change it. And so now we know that about each other, and I can, you know, give the fish that sandwich of you know, all these things are really good. And there are some things to change. And this stuff is really good. So so it helps us to communicate in a way that the other could actually receive. And he knows that if I forget to do that, sometimes it's not because I don't see the value in the work that he's doing it because, you know, I I'm just focusing on the few things that need changing. So that's how I perceive.

Yeah, I guess I just don't, we don't always connect it to autism, or to be on the spectrum, right? Like, I guess that's a huge point will be for you and for learning, when maybe it was a bridge or a gateway to just that general understanding, then thinks about certain things very different than I do. And the narrative in my head that I have that she doesn't appreciate things per se, or she's thinking about something, a way that I disagree with is the narrative that's in my own head and not necessarily the narrative that's reality. I think the biggest thing is, it's almost like Jen looks at it like from a fresh perspective of like, what can we be doing and what should we be doing, versus what cultural culture says we should be doing or what we can't be doing? That has a trickle effect on empowering Carys basically, as well as empowering herself. So, you know, whether it comes to homeschooling, whether it comes to taking on projects, like right now they're working on a construction project where they we had a set of stairs that was outside, was previously a laundry room to our house, we converted into a third bedroom before Carys was born. And for the last nine years, the stairs have been getting decrepit and dilapidated. With the last two months Carys and Jen had been working on demoing the stairs, dismantling the stairs, laying down brick and cement and then building a fence from scratch, using power tools and saws and grinders. So I think the majority population specifically the majority of moms probably would not look at the pile of rubble and be like, learning opportunity to help fix something that is pneumatic, but also to teach our daughter how to use tools and most importantly, how to show her that what's possible because of I think how she's wired, her first inclination is not like a man should do that. Or I can't do that or we should hire somebody to do that. Her first inclination is like I can do that. And part of what I want to pass on to Carys is, you know, showing her how easy it is to do this. So that she could take on any task, right? So again, removing those filters and layers of preconceived notions that we have in our own head, and neck that culture has taught us and just doing it. I think that's the greatest observation in connecting the dots that I've had now, as we've taken on so many things like learning how to go crabbing, and fishing, and all that, and like different stuff, that I share it with friends, and they're like, "Oh, my gosh. You live with two badass women." I'm like, "Yeah, I do. And I didn't do that. I just take pictures of it."

Yeah, thank you. Like I said, we could ask you more and more about this, just because it's, it's always interesting to hear about, you know, people's growth and how they change and learn about themselves, And then how their relationships grow. So that I mean, that's just so fascinating. But we'll move on. And just lastly, topic of your relationship and your family, we wanted to ask how you decided to become parents? And I hear that less interested or not 100% sure about becoming a mother. And Alvin, were you more interested? And what was that conversation like for you two?

You have an hour? Really? All right. So now that I have a little practice. Jen, never wanted to have children. And I think that's not a surprise to podcast listeners. I always wanted to have kids. But when we married, I made sure to let her know that I loved her. And as much as I have want to have kids, it is not a deal breaker, nor is it required. If we were to get married, I've had it at the time. So we met in 2004. We got married in 2010. And we had a fairly long engagement. She went to grad school. But I basically made sure she knew that that time had enough to know that my life was better with her than it would be without her. So while if we should be lucky to have kids, that would be awesome. But my life is better with her regardless. So I didn't realize at the time that you know, I was being just truthful, transparent, honest. And there were no expectations that she would change her mind. And I did, I was very sensitive to the fact that I like did not want to do anything to actively try to change her mind. But I think over the course of after us getting married and stuff, she apparently and she could tell it for herself, didn't want to be the single best. She likes the point it, named it. She didn't want to be responsible for the single biggest disappointment in my life, is how she framed it in her own narrative. In our own head. That wasn't when I was. So here's the here's the hilarious part. So I used to work, or not suppliers, I used to work in advertising.

You're missing a bit.

What?

Where I would say, "Okay, so do you want to have a kid?"

Okay.

Do you want to be like, "Yeah, let's just get to the end of ski season." And then in the ski season, we're calm. And I would say, "Okay, so do you want to do this thing?" And you'd be like, "Oh, let's just get to the end of bike season." And ski season, a bike season, follow each other. And this will keep happening, I'd be like, "Well, if you don't want this to happen, I don't particularly want to happen either. And so it's not gonna happen. Are you okay with that?" And then well, but

I think that goes to, again, how our brains are wired, right? As well as our backgrounds like my safe, stable upbringing. Like, I didn't think I was ever going to be ready. Like, I wasn't studying for an exam, and being like, okay, schedule the date. Let's do it. I was just like, Bring it on. I'm gonna bring it on. And of course, if you asked me like, you asked me you want another piece of cake? Like yeah, one other piece of cake. Right? Like, we're getting in like almost 30 days of ski ski days a year. We're mountain biking every weekend. Yeah, but I was saying like, Who wouldn't want that life man? I want a kid but you right yeah, like I haven't gone snowboarding like in like nine years in earnest anyways. But so I used to work in advertising. I used to go on these big extravagant shoots and adventures because of advertising. And the last adventure I was on before life changed forever. Believe it or not, is it worked for the agency and I worked for you guys know that you guys know the teriyaki sauce sorbet. Anyone? Anyone? Maybe maybe not. Anyways,

They're good enough.

So the small company was acquired by a bigger company. And the tasked us with doing something on a shoestring budget to promote this teriyaki sauce. In short, the team I work with came up with the idea of marinating a chicken breast in the soy of a teriyaki sauce, shooting it into space, hooking it in space. And when it came back down to earth, we would throw a big party And we call it Koyo 13.

No, it wasn't 2013.

Yeah, so we imagine like and my job was basically orchestrating the whole thing, including it, getting it approved by their legal team and department toward version. So it was a pretty intense, several months. And we threw a party in Nashville, Tennessee. And we did the whole Koyo 13 event in Nashville, Tennessee, including chicken chaser vehicles and the whole enchilada. In any case, I went off to Nashville. It was a huge success. I had a bite of the Sous vide chicken breast. And, you know, it was a pretty eventful evening, and I was pretty tired. Got home the next morning, after being away for a few days. Jen greets me at the door. And she's got this little

Actually you'd been whining about your colleagues and

Okay. As I, as I mentioned, it was a very intense several months imagine like, office, like in the office with humans working till two in the morning.

So he was whinning about his colleagues and I said, "I got you a present."

Pregnancy kit.

Yes, when I when I got home. So when I got home, after partying in Nashville till two, three in the morning, taking an 11 o'clock flight where all my colleagues were hungover and celebrating, you know, this chickens bass, I get home, open the door, she throws this box in my face. And the first thought was like, Oh, crap, was I supposed to buy or something from Nashville? I'm sorry. And then I open it. And there's this pee stick pregnancies pregnancy stick thing. And granted, you gotta recognize we had not had any conversation at all about having a child, like none. Me or maybe maybe we're talking, like, generally speaking. But she never gave me the impression that we were going to have a child or try to have a kid. But apparently, as it turns out, as my hungover post, Koyo 13 self came knocking on my door presented with this positive birth control stick. Right? I learned that in the

Yeah, I learned. First of all, I was like, what is this?

And then your second question was, what are the two pink lines mean?

I was so confused. This is someone who imaged never want to have kids. I just poked a chicken in space with my team got back and someone's giving me a present with a pee stick with pink lines on it. I couldn't process. And so what I learned was like she was pregnant. And I was totally confused. And then I'm like, I think I was like, how did that happen? Right? Are some of something like, Oh, no, because she had, she was on birth control or whatever. And she had taken it upon herself to come off birth control, and not tell me thinking she's got like a year, get pregnant. And she gets pregnant right away. And that's how she decides to tell me that we're about to have kids. Does that answer your question?

Yeah, totally does. And it sounds like it was just meant to be. I love this story because we all have, like, these funny things that happen. And it turns into this big adventure, right?

I think I was in my boss's office, like the CEO of our ad agency the next morning, and I'm telling him what happened. He's like, "You did what?" You do not do anything except for smile? And be supportive. Do not ask those questions out loud. What are you thinking man? I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. So to folks out there, who are maybe listening to the podcast, and not yet, you know, getting an early start. Don't do what I did.

Best advice.

Well, that was great. Love that story. Thank you for sharing and just being open about how that came to be and how Carys came to be. So we're gonna move on to some questions from Iris And I'm really looking forward to this part of our chat where Yeah, again I think all these questions are are getting personal. But I think there'll be some, some good ones here. So Iris pass up to you.

Yeah. So Corrine have mentioned we are getting kind of personal here and in a different way personal. So so in the first part of the Ask Alvin Anything, Alvin, you share that you were born and raised in New Jersey by your parents who are Filipinos? And I'm curious, do you identify yourself as a Filipino American, Asian American? Or do you just want to say, I'm American? I don't want any modifier with that. So I'm just curious.

Yeah, that's a good question. And that's a complex question, I think. So I grew up in a mostly White affluent suburb of New Jersey, outside of New York City, specifically like in like our neighbor, we're sandwiched between really nice neighborhoods. And we were a nice neighborhood ourselves. The directly adjacent neighborhood was like, Next Level affluent. And that's who I went to high school with. So we saw we had very normal, you know, "affluent" families. But we also had, like, a lot of families who I think people were commuting into New York City from the financial sector, and living in these quite affluent mansions. I think right now, Bruce Springsteen, and Bon Jovi still live in those towns, and they were living in those towns when I was growing up. But I think, you know, our high school was maybe 600 or so 700 people and I would say the minority population was probably less than 10 to 15. Students, total, total, not percent, like, total, like me, my sister, a friend of ours, And then a couple other, you know, another handful of like, minority people. So I think, growing up, and then obviously, I, my parents were from the Philippines and first generation Filipino. So growing up, while, you know, they were concerned about our safety and assimilating and acclimating to the US, you know, in kindergarten, I took speech therapy classes, like right away, and I think it was honor kind of helped me with better pronunciation. And such, I think what it also did was like, removed some of my accent, likely my Filipino accent. But I did grow up in New Jersey. I grew up having, I don't wanna say, mostly White friends, but all White friends with the exception of our Barkada are like our family group. And as any kid, you know, you're wanting to fit in. Ironically, I definitely had a very strong willed sort of personality in mind. But, you know, and I think I was able to elevate above like, social cliques per se. So while I did want to fit in, I didn't feel the need to be like with any specific group of kids. And even when I dealt with stuff like racism, like, I think I was strong willed enough to create this narrative in my head, to think back at these folks, or these experiences being like, "What the fuck, like, what's wrong with you?" So there was never like, what's wrong with me? It's like, what the hell's wrong with you? I don't know exactly how that came to be. But it was I'm very thankful for it.

But I think with that backdrop, you know, I was very sociable, fairly sociable person. And while I'm sort of like, I think I'm an extroverted introvert. I appreciate a lone time and quiet time, but I also get energized, being around people and collaborating with people. So I'm a bit of a chameleon. But so again, that said, you know, I grew up in the 80s. Born in the 70s. Like, in the US, that's like the height of like, consumerism. Right? That's the height of like J Crew and the Gap and Abercrombie. So all these messages out there, right, I used to, I used to cut out Calvin Klein ads and of Christy Turlington and smack them on my wall. And I used to, like want to be a fashion photographer. So and I while I grew up, like my parents spoke Filipino, like around me, and I understood it, I never had a desire to learn it. Nor did we have a close connection or ties to the Philippines. I think my parents were very tired to like making a success and figuring out how to build community, with their friends in the US that there was like, what I regret it now, like in the age that I'm at, I wish I had a stronger tie to my cultural roots. And perhaps that's why I was so happy to see Iris like in Vancouver. And I was also surprised that Iris fears I think we share a little bit of that that we are not as enacted in our current like environments to those roots But I've only been to the Philippines once, and that was in 1982. And my parents, my own parents weren't very tight with their, like my Lola, my grandma lived with us, but she died fairly early. I was in high school. But my father was not very tight with his own family. So again, we don't don't have a tight connection. And in my mind, I often thought of myself more as White and wanting to be White than want to be Philippine. And, you know, And I was the oldest of like, in our Barkada, or family friends, I was oldest kid amongst a sea of girls. And I mostly found them annoying growing up, right when you grow up, because when I got in trouble is mostly because of things I did to those girls. Sorry, again, I apologize to them, or like them not coming along or doing what I'm told whatever. So I never also saw like, Asian women or Filipino girls as necessarily attractive because of this combination. Like I saw them as sisters. I saw them as thorn in my side, I'm being conditioned to like Abercrombie and J. Crew. I'm shopping at J Crew. So I think in 99, I moved to the Bay Area. And I think, yeah, sure. Sounds whispering for version. Well, my point is like, I moved to the area, and I and for the first time, I was surrounded by more diverse, like group of people, and a higher percentage of Filipinos, Asian Americans, different cultures.

And where did you go live?

I lived in the whitest, most Disneyland like, medically manicured place in the city. Funny, not funny. But I think it was eye opening and like a little bit of a way to, to feel more at home without realizing that I had this part of me that was looking for stuff. And I think ironically, I've inched along the way like I've people would connect with me that I've met who shared again, our cultural heritage, and try to connect with me on that level. And it would just go over my head. Like, I would just like, again, I associated more White than not. So I'd have these conversations and people will be like, psyched. Or like even with friends who are Black. You know, I'd be sitting across the table with friends were Black, And they'd be trying to relate to me on the repercussions And levels on what it's like to be a minority. And they'd be going going over my head that I hadn't had some of these experiences. And the weird thing is, I'm further along in these discussions and understanding because of my British European partner, like European, White European partner, but I think, no, I have a much greater empathy and understanding for like, a larger swath of people.

Yeah. And so we actually have a question here from Amanda and she asked a question in her email asking Alvin, if as a person from a non-dominant race, or culture, how does your perspective on race align and or differ from Jen's? So, I don't know, maybe one or two examples if we can?

Yeah, no, I think it goes back to like what I was talking about earlier. She is definitely while she might lack the specific experiences with racism that I have encountered the way that she has empathized with BIPOC communities. What she's tried to do in terms of both Your Parenting Mojo And supporting unions were sleep here with us is leaps and bounds anywhere where you know, I've either done or considered or thought to do myself, right. I think that's often with immigrants, and often with that population, our needs and concerns instead of my parents, right. Their concerns weren't for advocating for Filipino Americans. When they moved here in the early 70s, their needs and concerns we're putting food on the table, right, their house, supporting their kids. They didn't care about social issues. They're concerned about their own needs. Right. And just like probably with Black Lives Matter and and stuff that folks are like anyone, regardless of race, are concerned about their needs first. And then when your needs are met, we can start with big advocate of others, right. And I think that's been part of Jen's journey. And how it's impacted me is just like parenting, I'm along for that ride, because we're in this together. And what it's illuminated for me, is a way of considering and thinking about things and living that I definitely would not have ever considered if it weren't for Jen. So she holds me to a much higher standard than I hold myself, but my standards have keep leveling up. Because my understanding gets greater and greater as a human. Humanity, I don't think can empathize with that it doesn't understand. So the key is to gain understanding. And I can come in all sorts of different ways. So that's where my understanding comes daily in conversations we have has was conversations are happening more actively with Carys, because that's a lot of all she learns just through discussion and conversation. So not just through the podcast, but like, through life. So well, I hope that answers your question. But

Can you give an example?

Which?

Your your standards And how we've shifted over the years.

I mean, I used to work in advertising, and I used to, I used to not care. Honestly, I used to been focused on my needs. Focus on my career path. Focus on being successful. I cared about the environment, I cared about these things that conceptually, again, Walter says, If you're a good person, you should part of the percentage of your brain should be focused on caring about certain things. And then there are certain people who just don't care about that perception and don't care about those things. It doesn't mean we go deep into those things or have a greater understanding of those things. That's a whole different story. And I think that's part of why we don't care about those things, see hypocrisy, right, because it's like, but I think, again, these are old narratives that are in people's heads. But I think we have a lot. In general, there's a lot more we can be doing and should be doing, including ourselves. But again, I think the key thing is, we cannot empathize with that we don't understand. And we're getting inundated with so many messages about so many things. And even with the internet, it's so hard to get trustworthy information, per se, or like, there's so much skepticism now. And most people feel lost, and most people feel helpless. So it goes back down to their own needs. And as we know, as parents, parenting is so hard itself. And then the the focus on needs goes from like trying to meet your own needs, which most people aren't even meeting when they're fully, like functioning properly. So then the dream that's like meeting your child's needs. I can see how it's really tough on I can see how we've gotten to this place.

Alvin, earlier you shared about when you were growing up that you really identified as American without the modifier, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that, you know, you were like, Oh, I wish you identified yourself as White or wanting to be White. And, and so I guess my question is, do you have an appreciation of you being a Brown person? Now? Like, you know, like, okay, I'm okay. Like, even if I'm not White, even if I'm not here, I love myself? Or like, has there been a, I guess, a kind of shift in your consciousness?

Yes, yes, I think part of it is, I guess, this sort of realization of again, trying to see and listen to people in general, right, on the individual level, and also observe things on the macro level. So like coming to California and San Francisco, been people you can empathize with what you don't understand. All of a sudden, I had more friends that were Asian American, Filipino, Indian, non-White, meeting more people, meeting more gay people, right? All of a sudden, I'm gaining this better understanding for others and diversity and people that are not the people and that Abercrombie ad, right. Where like Calvin Klein ad that probably gave gave me greater appreciation and empathy for like the non-aspirational stuff. Now we're inundated with, and I think just the world's look what happened, And become more in tune with what's happening in the world over time, and it just blows my mind. Like, especially with what's like happening now, regardless of where you sit on the fence with stuff in the Middle East and stuff. I was editing photos and working on the website, just this week. And I watched the Netflix documentary on World War II. And I'm just sitting there and they're using real footage. And I'm just like, humanity is just so jacked. Like, there's I don't know how we solve for it. But like, I'm looking at these stories on both, they're, they're trying to tell both sides, right, like, just because you're German and Nazi Germany doesn't mean you're like, a horrible person. Just like, there are horrible people on the ally side who are just killing. Like it was just sat there editing pictures, listening, watching, thinking about what's happening in Israel and Palestine. And I'm just like, I can't help but think of Jen's book again. And the work she's doing, people are just bypassing the the notion of Brown, basic human needs. And the fact that like, where are these actions coming from? On the very basic level, and the fact that as a humanity, humanity, we're fighting for the same thing. needs for safety, it needs for shelter needs for autonomy, right? And we have more in common. And we have different and we're we have so we've supposedly like elevated because we're a people, not animals, the higher level thinking.

So I'm hoping that at some point, as a culture, we figure out how to go back to understanding that we're like, it's a one earth and like, we're human people like yeah, that's, you know, that's maybe a idealistic way of thinking about things on a New Year's Day I posted, download the lyrics to John Lennon's Beattle's song, Imagine. It's like for the first time I read those words through the lens of like someone with experience. And I really encourage everyone to look at those words again. And they just really hit me in a different way, like, thinking about stuff. And I'm not naive to understand like that there are powers, right? Economic powers, global powers. Right? You know, and that nuances benefited largely from the Industrial Revolution and the expense of like other things, but most people don't think about that type of stuff. When the rain forests are getting cut down, they don't think about like the needs of people who are starving people who are needing to provide for their families, people who don't have basic needs that we like, take for granted. In the US where we're drinking are $8.50 coffees, because we have the chance to like, pick about pick, you know, what kind of mocha we want. So it's not to say that we shouldn't enjoy things and appreciate all that we have. I think there's got to be a way to do that with understanding that the majority of world don't have these luxuries than really understanding that while we're like decorating our beautiful homes, or picking out what to watch on Netflix, there are people on the other side of the world, worrying about some real issues and life-altering needs. That's where I struggle when, like, for example, my Instagram, I'm barely not that I don't have a huge Instagram following. But like I struggle with even saying anything, I feel sort of guilty posting stuff on sort of off. Now, like, if you look at my last few feeds, I don't say anything, just post. It's that sort of holding on to things that create appreciation and love for my family. What we've built, what we have, and the fact that there's a family in Israel, family in Palestine, family and Africa, a family in Ukraine, a family in Russia, that's living a very, very different from us. And I just happen to be lucky to be born to where I was at. Yeah, so not that, like so I think there's a lot. There's still a lot of positive, but I think we got to keep on the positive. But I think we got to do it without being blind to some of the challenges. Yeah.

Thanks for that Alvin. I'm an immigrant like I immigrated here to Canada. I was already in my 30s. And so I've always been curious of the experiences of Black indigenous and people of color who were born here in North America. And so it's it's been interesting, the shared experiences like even in New Jersey With all those consumerism thing, and the same with me back in the Philippines with those Calvin Klein magazine, like ads and putting them on the wall, Oh, I thought it was just me and my friends but but very similar. So Corinne, I understand that you were also born and raised in the US and your parents are Mexicans and Japanese. And I was just wondering if there are some elements of what Alvin shared that resonates with you as well.

Yes, most of my family immigrated to the US before around World War II. So my family's been in the US a bit longer. And while I love my cultural roots, I'm sad that I do feel distant sometimes especially losing the language. I still try to work on those native languages of my family. But a lot of it's been lost, especially my Japanese family was interned. And assimilation was really, really important for their survival. So things got lost somewhat quickly, but I loved Yeah, being able to continue some of our, our traditions and tap in and learn more about the history. That's really important, too. But yeah, definitely resonates with me growing up in a more White community. That was the same for me, not quite as affluent. It was a small town. But yeah, that that definitely resonated with me, too.

So I would like to ask this of you, Alvin, I remember in the first part of the episode, we talked about, oh, you had something that that really comes to mind is when you had a advice for other dads, you said something about where us women or moms, like jump into this whole parenting and learning about parenting and self-improvement? Well, in your experience, you were like, dip your toes and then go back and, you know, so things like that. So what can you say to other dads about, you know, encouraging them to have, I don't know, become more active in the parenting or maybe think about I don't even know what, how, what you're encouraging them to do, but encouraging them in being more of a participative and active dads and to question what they are already learned.

Yeah, I think, for some reason, I don't I don't know if this is an overly generalized statement. But I think dads are more programmed to think that through the struggles, this is just what it like. Right? And that, maybe it's because we're meant to, like, everything is taught taught us, culturally, to suppress our feelings, or to like, suck it up. That as the noise as the tension rises as our kids, you know, get older. Because it because it's funny, right? When you have an infant, you're like, oh, it's gonna get better later. Right? I'm sorry, Corrine, if this is gonna freak you out. But like, if you have an infant, like I'm getting no sleep, okay, pyre kid just has needs, like, older or gonna be good. Or the kid starts walking, and you're like, mother, toddler starts talking and you're like, What is going on? And then the kids are saying "no." And you're like, because I told you so. And then you're like, Oh, God, I just said, because I told you so 10 million times and like this kid. So it's like, I think guys, and me included, were just like expecting life to like a nosedive almost. And that often is at the expense of like our part. And then and then I think then our partners don't know what to do with us as partners, because we're not holding up our end of the bargain. But in our minds, we're holding up our end of the bargain. It's just a new crappy normal when it comes to like, raising a kid. And then if you add on top of that, like, her background versus my background, then divide of like, things are okay. Things aren't okay. And then this chasm develops.

So I think, generally speaking, if I were to speak with any Dad, it's like, number one, take care of your partner. Right? Because it's not all about the kid. And I know that our needs have been stuffed down so much that it's not going to bother us as much as it's going to bother our partner. Because person in this relationship was meant to feel is really going to feel the next 18 months, 2 years, 4 years, eight years, we're ready trained not to feel once we start feeling on top of like our winner, players decide like they've had enough of our bullcrap. And then we get permission to feel, that's when, like, it's exploded for us. And then we have these discoveries of like needs and like, things aren't necessarily working like the way they should be working. And I think most a lot of dads, including me, when you hit that tipping point, when when like a kid is, like 18 wants to like toddler experiencing tantrums is that we're not on the same page. We're not parenting as a team. And, you know, we've hunkered down to play video games to watch movies, whatever it is, guys are seem to be doing and trained to do. Whereas our partners are left, like doing most of the parenting because society says women are the caregivers. So to be honest, like I probably should have been crucified more in terms of my behavior than I did. And we it comes mostly unexpected. So dads out there, if you have a young child, under 18 months, I would say continue to like, understand, it's not all about the kid. It's about your partner, it's about you. It's you guys, as a family, because it's easy to go down this trajectory that's all about the kid. And trust me, it will bite you in the ass well, before it bites, you're learning the acts.

Also, I think, as they get older, again, it's about being more present, like present, not just for the kid, but present for yourself, and present for your partner. Because it moves by fast, like so fast, and it can be awesome. But it also could, you could just fall into the trap of like, I'm just gonna get to the weekend. I'm just gonna get to like, X. I'm not running anymore. I gotta run next month. I haven't been on my bike forever, I'll go on my bike next summer, like the trappings of like, survival as a parent. And like hunkering down to your, like comfort place of like, individual comfort place that grip comfort place, man cave, right? Or if you're into music, you musical instruments by yourself. I think it's just super easy to do that. So I think part of it again, is like, as a dad, be present, like, shut down the phone. Like, don't be checking work emails all the time. Be the catalyst for conversation, as opposed to the reactionary like, because then, you know, no one likes being caught on their heels, right? And when we're trying to like be like, everything's fine. It misses just parenting. And the majority of the parenting and caregiving is on our partners or wives. And then they finally had it off. And then they give it to us. No one likes getting put on your heels. So then all of a sudden, you're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you never said anything. Save yourself some aggravation

Now that that's ever happened to me. Ha.

Yeah. So, but it's all learning. It's all process. I think that the but the main takeaway is like, we all have needs. We're all chugging along. We're all lucky to have our families. Let's just remind ourselves how lucky we are right? I think that's the main thing like to embrace time, right? Not to embrace the romantic vision of like, what it is like to have a kid. Right? It's like, if our kid asks us to help them with a toy or to play with them. Really think about how that time is fleeting. Right? And what's my excuse? Like, my excuse is like, I'm reading about my horrible New Jersey, I mean, Brooklyn Nets, and how they lost it again. And I'm like, I'm really choosing to read about my horrible Brooklyn Nets, versus my daughter, excited to play with me. We all have those moments, it's just a time to like, remember what's most important and not be like, Okay, look back and be like, I missed out on all these opportunities.

Those, those are very good messages. And I think that portion there should be like, there should be a short clip for that so that the wives and the partners can show it to their husbands. And this is what Alvin suggested.

Why but I think but I think parenting is not like, babysitting is not a job like, right, be like when when one way to think about is like when Carys was younger, and I would have to look up to her. That's not my babysitting job. That's just part of parenting. Right. And I think that's the the slight pivot that dads need to take right like parenting and caregiving is not just like, the the mom's job. It's not bonus, you're not doing family a favor, right, when you're looking after and playing with your kid, so mom can take a nap. That's like, that's that bonus points,

Actually reminds me of a conversation I had with a couple that we met in Vancouvern where obviously, you know, we just met them when I didn't have a deep insight into their relationship. But I talked to a fair bit with the dad and he seemed like pretty emotionally aware, he was in touch with his feelings. He was very participant in the Orange Shirt Day celebration or not celebration, but remembrance is in Canada. And he would wear a pin on his jacket for missing and murdered indigenous women. And you know, that's not something I commonly see among men hear like, proud and prominent displays of an understanding for the lives of indigenous women, and the safety of Indigenous women. And so that combined with his emotional awareness, I like point blank asked him, right, where's this coming from? Where does this come from from you? Because this is this is not something I see a lot of men doing. And he looked across the table at his wife, and he said, you know, the more I listened to her, the better my life seems to get. And I don't think it's true that women hold all the answers and know exactly the right things to do. But sometimes the things that we are trying to do ourselves, can enrich our lives and can enrich our family's lives, and the broader population's lives as well. And they I think back to that family often. And the journey that they've taken and from where they are now. And obviously, you know, I saw a tiny piece, and I'm sure they have many difficult interactions. But but yeah, I really hold that as sort of a touchstone experience. And yeah,

Yeah. And we are at the end of our questions, but we have six quick questions. And Alvin, that's the key word "quick." But this I think

You aiming for here?

But yeah, this will be a little change up in the format. So just quick, you know, first thing that comes to your mind type of responses, and then we'll close up this episode. So let's jump into these six questions. Okay, first one, fill in the blank. Parenting is __.

Awesone. It was my first. So I'll just say awesome. Let's go. Oh, my God.

What is your favorite meal?

Cheeseburgers.

He promised in his wedding vows to eat pure cheeseburgers. Wedding vows.

Wow. Yeah. What is something that people often get wrong about you?

Underestimate me?

Great answers. Okay. And if you could go on your next vacation anywhere in the world, where would you go?

Hawaii. I can't wait people.

Because why would you ever want to go anywhere else than somewhere you've already been?

Hawaii is awesome.

Okay, next one. Number five. What is something you're looking forward to in 2024?

I am turning big five so I want a new mountain bike. And I want to go to Hawaii. So I'm putting it down now. We need to be able to afford these things, which is at this point, not turning towards that. If that is the goal. I'm making a superficial goal. I do not care if it's a superficial goal. When I want to know new mountain bike, I want to go to Hawaii.

Birthdays in December. We've got time.

Yeah, you got that. Okay. Yeah, I ended the year that's perfect.

I might have to sell some stuff. Maybe an organ or two make it happen. We'll see you guys in Hawaii. Let's throw a big party.

I love that. Okay, last question. What is one thing you're deeply grateful for right now?

Everything I mean, there's no one. It's everything. Like I I don't know where it comes from. But I've I've often thought about death. Not in a very scared way. But in a creative way in a way that makes me thankful for every day. But yeah, I I think I need to do a better job of articulating that thankfulness with Jen with family with my friends. Because it happens here. Like all the time, it doesn't always translate to my actions. It doesn't always translate to like, like sharing my appreciation but ironically, I think most happens when I'm laying in bed at night. So I can't like, I'll be like, Thank you for the support. She she yells at me when my hair rubs against the pillow because it's too noisy. But ya know, I'm thankful for these interactio. I'm thankful for like, I'm thankful for life. I guess that's the best way to put it.

I'm thankful for the two of you. Thank you for making this happen twice. All the work, so I didn't have to do it. asking great questions yourselves and for relaying listener questions and putting so much effort into making these episodes amazing. So thank you, both of you, Iris and Corinne.

But for me, well, yeah,

Thank you. You too. But it was easy for you. Everybody else did all the work.

You're thankful for me in general. Oh, well,

Yes, of course.

So so Alvin you're the first one I'd like to thank for allowing yourself to be authentic and vulnerable in this conversation and for Jen for giving Corrine and I the opportunity to be guest hosts in her podcast. And Corinne for being such an amazing partner in this little co-hosting gig. And I would also like to give a shout out to all those who sent their questions and I'm going to read the names and try my best to pronounce them correctly. Amanda Calbarossi, CG Go, Elizabeth Kamundia, Judy Cho, Sara Sylvestri. And my daughter here she loves the limelight so she's sharing the time. So why don't you stay here? Well, Corinne finishes the thank yous.

Well, we just want to let folks know you can check out Alvin's work at EverydayIsYourBirthday.com And also we want to plug Jen's work. So the book Parenting Beyond Power is available. I listen to the audiobook version, and it was great as a fellow parent, highly, highly recommend, invite you to check out Your Parenting Mojo website. For anything else you want to learn about Jen's work, there's a Facebook group and membership groups. And if you have any questions or are struggling on your parenting journey, there are so many wonderful resources through Your Parenting Mojo. Iris, And I can attest to it. So and I know I tell people all the time about Your Parenting Mojo because there's so much for each person. And again, thank you to Alvin for sharing with us and thank you to everyone for listening in and celebrating 200 plus episodes of Your Parenting Mojo. Sounds thank you all it's great to be with you.

Thank you, okay.

If you'd like Jen to address the challenge you're having in parenting, just email your one minute video or audio clip to support@YourParentingMojo.com and listen out for your episode soon.