415 : Daisi Pollard – Real product use drives todays ecommerce sales
Great story of not just another pretty face. Yes she has a pretty face, but it is attached to a lot of brains. Great story of paying attention and taking advantage of what you learned. Do you have experiences from your past that can help propel your business? Daisi will tell you what she did to take her opportunities and create several businesses from them. She paid attention!
Here is transcript- It is automated so it is not perfect but it does seem to get better over time.
Daisi: [00:00] I think that we have to think about it is that like agencies are essentially sales departments and agents and our sales people. Um, and they’re working on commission, most of them, and they’re gonna go, they operate with the in what is the easiest for them to make a sale and who is going to make you know, the most sale for them. Um, and so [inaudible]
Cool voice guy: [00:23] welcome to the e-commerce momentum podcast where we focus on the people, the products, and the process of eCommerce commerce selling today. Here’s your host, Steven Peterson.
Stephen: [00:37] Hey, it’s me. It’s Q4 got to bring up my Amazon seller tribe. Um, this is probably, you know, one of the last chances you’re going to get to join this year. So I’ll, I’ll run this for a couple of weeks, but, um, the, the good news is you could still get in, right? They are allowing people in, but at some point they’re going to cut it off. So I suggest you join today. Try it with 14 days for free. Okay? So you don’t like it, you don’t get value drop. Um, however, don’t only measure on the value of what you’re buying, measure on the value of the impact it has on your business. And what I love about this group, the Amazon seller tribe is the amazing way they invest into your business. They will help you with all the questions. Go out and check out, uh, amazing freedom.com, forward slash momentum dash arbitrage.
Stephen: [01:20] Look at the testimonials. Those are real people. Reach out to them, right? You can kind of figure out who they are and go out and figure out, uh, and ask them, is it real? Are they really helpful? Will they help my business? And you will be blown away again. You get 14 days free if you joined through my link on the, and they do pay me. So I don’t want you to, I don’t mislead anybody. Um, but I believe in them. I’m in the groups, you’ll see me and you’ll get to talk with me too. So amazing. freedom.com, forward slash momentum, hyphen arbitrage. I know it’s a lot momentum, hyphen arbitrage and you’re going to get 14 day free trial on the daily fine list. Make a purchase, get your money back and then say, huh, I can do this again. Wash, rinse, repeat, wash, rinse, repeat.
Stephen: [02:05] Amazing. freedom.com, forward slash momentum arbitrage. They are going to close it. Q fours here. It’s going to happen. Get ready. Welcome back to the e-commerce plan. A podcast. This is episode 415 Daisy powered. Um, very cool conversation. Um, when she approached me, I thought about, you know, whether, you know, I guess I’ve done some of these talks about photography and what it takes before. Um, but there’s just something different and what was, there’s a couple of really cool things that come out. First off her phrase, um, real use drives sales. And I’m putting that in a title because it is something that I think if you’re trying to stand out and she explains why it works, especially from a female perspective. And you know, me as a guy, I struggle with this, but it makes sense what she’s saying, that real use. That’s what people want.
Stephen: [02:56] They want to see themselves using that product. Um, they want to be, they want it to relate to them. And I think she does a really good job. I’m struggling explaining it, but I think she does a really good job, uh, and give some examples of what it takes, um, to really stand out today. Um, second thing that was really a big surprise for me was a pricing that their company has. It is way reasonable, way reasonable. Um, and so I, I have the link there. Um, I mentioned the link, um, very good, uh, pricing, uh, compare it against what you’re paying now and see if there’s an opportunity. Let’s get into the podcast and welcome back to the eCommerce momentum podcast. Excited about today’s guest. Uh, because it’s interesting. She’s had two significant careers, maybe three, I don’t know the third, but two that I know of in her life and they do seem opposite but related in, in, in, in an odd way. Um, and uh, I’m really interested to find out more Daisy Pollard. Welcome, tasty.
Stephen: [03:55] That’s accurate. Those two, uh, careers are a little different yet they’re related.
Daisi: [04:01] Yes. Yes, very much so. And I can’t explain to you the connection and how it all fits together too, because I think people are going to be like, wait, what? Yeah. So, um, I don’t know. Do you want me to start or go for it? Yeah. So I started off, um, as a team model and I working in New York and doing all the catalogs and, you know, smiley, fun stuff, the mailers that you get in the mail. Uh, and then I, Yvette, a little bit later, I did this too throughout my college and, and I’m into my mid twenties. And then in my mid twenties, I got, I really lucked out and I was elected as a delegate at large to represent Jamaica in the miss earth. Um, the ms international and the miss, uh, Asia Pacific international pageants. So they are respectively held in the Philippines, China and Japan.
Daisi: [04:56] And that opened up a lot of doors. I, uh, continued modeling in Asia and also, um, was able to turn that into a lot of other business opportunities and, uh, speaking opportunities and appearance opportunities and so forth and so on. And, and I at the time started a small boutique agency slash production company. And what I was trying to do at the time was, uh, what, what is now considered like influencer style work and, and direct to consumer marketing for a smaller brands that were emerging out of Los Angeles. And now there’s a very clear category definition in industry for that. Back then there wasn’t. And um, and, and interesting. We, we did pretty well even though we were way left field and people thought we were a little weird. And, um, since then I continued to hone the idea of the business model and so forth.
Daisi: [05:54] And as technology has advanced and, and entrepreneurship has become more of a common thing and especially e-commerce entrepreneurship. Um, I created a site called my product model. And what we do is we work with eCommerce brands to create creatives for them, um, mainly through like product shots and you know, for their Instagram feed lifestyle for their Amazon feed to really show their customers how their product works. Uh, best use cases for their products and basically to help them sell the products better. Um, and you know, I’ve created a business off of that. Um, and I’m involved in it in many different aspects and from running it to, I still do a lot of the modeling for, um, some of the products and clients that we have, um, to organizing a lot of the other models. And sometimes I play photographer, so every day it’s, you know, different hats.
Stephen: [06:48] So I’m going to go back because, uh, that’s a lot. Um, but it is all connected. No, you’re absolutely right. And I’m, I’m fascinated right now. I’m actually fascinated because, uh, you didn’t quite mention that you are also a miss Jamaica. Uh, uh, so you made it the full, full gamut. So, um, what, what was interesting, you said early on you talked about how you did a lot of fatigue or you were being photographed as a model. And what I think you inferred was that you were representing other people’s products, right? You were the, uh, the face there holding a glass drag, a bad example glass, my water bottle. Right. You would be that person, correct? Am I? Yeah. Okay. So that’s how you’re taking, you know, your skill, which obviously was, you’re beautiful when you, you know, you can do all that stuff that they do, but then you paid attention and saw the way they were presenting it, the photography. Were you always attracted to taking pictures too?
Daisi: [07:47] Oh yes. And I will tell you something very interesting. When I first started modeling, there wasn’t a lot of opportunities for girls like community because you know, I am a minority. I’m biracial, I’m a mixed race and there wasn’t just like a lot of cookie cutter opportunities. And so, uh, what I started to do very young was just kind of create my own what we can now today call create your own content. I would create my own content and I would duplicate the shoots out of magazines and this is still backing like 35 millimeter. And I would set up the camera and sometime it would have like my friend or my boyfriend or somebody take the pictures. But sometimes I would just do it myself.
Stephen: [08:26] What were you going to do with that? I mean, what was that? Just to hone the craft. Maybe,
Daisi: [08:30] um, to Mark it, no, I was like marketing myself. So vertical integration at like 14 years old, I understood vertical integration. So I would like make my own comp cards. I would package myself the way that I thought I should be marketed, um, not just as the accessory or the other girl in the shot, but as like the main subject and to prove basically to have proof the whole concept that I could sell products and that my look could sell products. So was you and my product was me and I was like, I started doing that at like 13 years old. So
Stephen: [09:05] you know, as I sit and I think about this, this is exactly what influencers, influencers are. You are correct. You were doing this way before it was popular to be on the gram. Yes. So, so I mean the common sense thing when Instagram happened and Facebook and all that, I mean I assume you were, you gravitated right there cause that was like, Hey, that’s my idea.
Daisi: [09:29] Yeah. So the first thing, the first innovation was my space. And if my space was really great for me because it was right at the time that I was doing miss Jamaica, the mr maca stuff. And I was just like, Oh, this is great. And I, you know, printed out my page, I had like tons of followers and um, and I would just create, you know, things to sell or businesses and, and you know, photos. I would create photos of myself and put them on posters and you know, use a, what was that? There was a famous, like a print on demand company at that time that I would use cafe press or something and, and to like cater to my fan base. And then I would directly market to companies that were small, but I knew they could benefit from having like a spokesperson or new photos and stuff like that.
Daisi: [10:18] And I remember one time I was like, I would hold, I hosted a, I produced and hosted a bikini car wash with just tires and, and, and right in the middle of like, I was competing, getting ready to compete at ms earth. So it was all environmental awareness and stuff like that. And I was like in that it was hurricane Katrina. And so I tied all that together in the middle of Los Angeles and it has nothing to do with Jamaica and has nothing to do with hurricane Katrina in the Philippines. But I just tied it all together and you know, I had this like just tires to sponsor and, and created these images and the bikini car wash and we raised money for charity and you know, and did some marketing and hours. So it was great. And, and I’ve just always been that way, like very entrepreneurial in, um, within the modeling aspect. I think a lot of people think that modeling is something that you’re just, you sit and you wait for someone to choose you and that is exactly what it’s not. Um,
Stephen: [11:14] again, I just want to, is it, I just wanna make sure I’m clear in this. Is it all models think the way you do or are you an outlier as you’re sitting there you’re like, huh, I see how that works. Huh? I see how this works. Or are all models that way because that’s where I think, I mean, I would think that most people, yeah, hurry up and wait, you know, your hurry up and wait, you know, you wait all day, somebody does your makeup, okay, get in there, do your thing, you get off, you got to wait until they’re ready and your but it’s not that way or not all are that way.
Daisi: [11:44] Not all are that way. And I think that what happens as you know, the origins of modeling actually wasn’t that way. Models were, there were very few of them and they were very entrepreneurial because there was no industry for it. And when there became an industry for it, it quickly got consolidated with gatekeepers. And so then it got consolidated with, with agent agencies, you know, handlers basically, um, that could justify their services for a fee. And lot of times that fee was a good percentage of what the model is that herself was making. Um, and so there was, there was a reason for, you know, people to come in as gatekeepers and, and, and try to control the, the modeling world. And the women that were making like a lot of money, there were very few women at that time that were making that amount of money.
Daisi: [12:32] And, and of course that just can’t happen. So you can’t have that, that’s just too much. And so I think originally it was very entrepreneurial and I, and then when the industry organized and got consolidated, um, it became a, you know, you, we choose you, you don’t choose what to do and, and if you get chosen, then you hurry up and wait. Um, and, and I think very early on I had learned and researched the history of like the first models and, and the first agency and how the industry evolved. And I was really interested in like Charles Revson, we started Revlon and, and how he started and how he started using models in the ads and, and, and how he controlled that relationship. And, and it just got me thinking, you know, um, and then ever since I just came up with different iterations of how to service clients, actually provide a service and also promote and market myself and, and create space for other people that don’t, that are not traditionally, you know, accepted in this industry or don’t necessarily have a lot of opportunities and so forth and so on.
Stephen: [13:46] Hmm. You know, I sit and I think about, again, have you ever listened to a podcast? I would listen to Joe Rogan a bit and he talks about co comedians and how back in the day it’s exactly what you described. There was a gatekeeper. You had to go on J lo no or Johnny Carson or whatever to be found right to be heard, to be seen. And now all they have to do is create a podcast and create, you know, they’re in charge of their career for the first time in their life. Is it, is what you see now in the model industry? Um, the same thing where, where most models have to take charge of their lives as opposed to those big agencies. Even when they’re working with an agency.
Daisi: [14:23] Yes, absolutely. Um, because there’s a, we call agencies like portfolio wholes because basically they’re just walls of comp cards and you know, they see the model once and the model comes in for our Polaroid and maybe, and you know, maybe they spend some money on outcome card and, and then you never see them again. You know, maybe they get called once a year, maybe once every two years. And so, um, I think the, we have to think about it is that like agencies are essentially sales departments and agents, our sales people, um, and they’re working on commission, most of them. And they’re going to go, they operate with the in what is the easiest for them to make a sale and who is going to make you know, the most sale for them. Um, and so models really have to think about how they can market and promote themselves and how they can change the, the relationship between the agency and then for their own advantage because the, the agencies aren’t thinking about them as an individual career, you know, as an individual person with a career. So I think it’s very similar. And I actually now today look at comedians. I’m actually quite often at how some of them are marketing themselves and creating opportunities for themselves, um, with their unique skills. And I try to adapt that or apply that to my career and my industry, my business and like my product model as well.
Stephen: [15:48] Yeah, that makes sense. Because again, you know, a model just like a photographer, but a model as is an art right there. You know, it’s not just easy to take a picture, you know, they, there’s, there is an art to it, you know, and so they have to get out there and market themselves. I love it. I’m sitting here thinking about now is this all applicable? Cause most people are like, well Steve, okay, great. What does it have to do with e-commerce? Well, all your products need to be, you know, we’re going to talk about that. But if I’m a brand, if I have a product, we have to think about it the same way. Correct?
Daisi: [16:19] Yes, absolutely. So, um, well if you’re a brand and especially if you’re a commoditized brand, meaning like, you know, you’re trying to compete on the Amazon marketplace or uh, eBay market and a number of them, Amazon, eBay, you know, um, you have to figure out how to differentiate yourself from the other people. Um, and I’d like to take the example of like, of a garlic press. You know, the joke in the eCommerce world and Amazon and the Amazon ecosystem is that the garlic press was the number one product that new eCommerce entrepreneurs go to to sell first. You know, and you go through Amazon and you type in garlic press. It is ridiculous how many of the same images pop up. And, and then you start thinking as a consumer, do I really need a garlic press? What, what’s the difference between these? I’m just going to get the cheapest one.
Daisi: [17:10] Um, but then you know, somebody in thinks about, Oh, well how can I show my garlic press differently? How can I show what is special about this garlic press that no one else is doing or even has the, maybe it doesn’t even have the resources to do. And so then you’ll, there’s a few people that have like some outstanding, um, e-commerce photos, you know, the, within the Amazon requirements of it being on white. They just got really creative with how to use photography and how to use post production, whether it’s a illustrator or even like Canva to create, um, a story, you know, with that image of why this garlic presses the best garlic press for you to buy. [inaudible] elaborate on that because I think that’s really key. What you’re saying is that some people have figured out to stand out kind of like yourself, right? [inaudible]
Daisi: [17:59] can you talk us through what you’ve seen or some of the outliers are doing? Oh, yes. Um, so I like to the most popular, I think topic of, of a common that’s common right now is Instagram, right? Um, because there’s, you know, every eCommerce entrepreneurs, like I’m just gonna make an a, a, an Instagram page and I’m going to put all my photos that are on my Amazon page, on my Instagram page, and then I’ll get sales. And it does not work that way. Um, and so some of my favorite, um, eCommerce brands that are really stand out with their Instagrams are, um, I talk about this in my book is like, miss Lola fashion Nova, um, hot Miami styles. You know, these are all fashion, but in every category there’s somebody like this that’s just doing really exceptional, um, product photography, lifestyle photography, where they’re selling you the dream, you know?
Daisi: [18:54] Um, and these are commoditized products. All these clothes are coming from China, from the same factories as anybody else, but they’re selling you a dream. W w stop. Cause when you said that, Oh, I want to understand what you mean. So do you, do you then have to sit back and say, okay, this is what my product is at Steve’s water bottle and I want, you know, the, the optimum user is going to be that bike enthusiast. Who’s mountain climbing, but whatever, you know, that kind of thing. And then that’s the vision I cast. Is that, am I right or am I far off? Um, no, I, yeah, I think you’re right. You’re in the ballpark. Right. Okay. So like, so you have that water bottle and, and maybe you are, you know, when you develop the product you are thinking about the athlete, right?
Daisi: [19:38] And so you thought about how the bottle will fit in the athlete’s hand or how it fits on the bike. Um, and you have this image when you’re creating a product, you can’t not have an image of what you see that product, how you see that product interacting with the real world. And where I think a lot of people fall short is that they don’t interpret that into the product photos. They think, Oh my customer will get it, but your customer doesn’t get it cause you didn’t tell your customer to get it. And so then you have to think, okay, well how am I going to get this, um, water bottle in a shot with somebody on the bike? And you know, when we think of biking, we think of Lance Armstrong, right? And we think of the tour de France, right? And, and so you want that athlete wants to be hydrated. And how can you create that image where the water bottle and that the athlete are interacting in a way that says to the consumer, if I have that water, it’s going to hydrate me because I, I’m not doing what that biker is doing, but, and so it takes care of him, it’s going to take care of me. Um, that takes a lot of creativity and a lot of planning to come up with that, to materialize that.
Stephen: [20:50] So, so let’s, let’s take that a little step further. How do you start that approach? So exactly what you said makes perfect sense to me. How, how do you go about the, I come to you and say, you know, Daisy, I have this unbelievable water bottle and you know, it, can you walk me through some of the, some of the process that you would take and your thought process around it?
Daisi: [21:09] Sure. So, um, let’s say it’s less stick with a water bottle example, uh, you reach and reach out to us and, uh, you have this water bottle and you show me, you know, the specs or you, if you have the product, you send us the product. Um, and I really pick your brain about, well, where do you, who is your market? Is it moms on the go? Is it athletes? Um, you know, is that, uh, young people that hip and trendy, are you competing with the a, what is that a, uh, claws, sparkling drinks or whatever?
Daisi: [21:40] Yeah, yeah. What are you would, who are you competing with? You know, and, and I, I hear, I hear you out and what you and I try to give you reference points. Uh, so my job is to really stay immersed in popular culture. Um, and, and it does help that I have a historic context when it comes to, um, product origin stories and where they originated from. And I’m really fascinated with that. So I try to pull from those as, as you know, someone is sharing with me what they envision happening. And then, um, together we put together a storyboard or some, uh, spec, you know, of, um, ideas that they’ve gathered from the internet. They Google, you know, maybe they, everybody always has a brand that they want to emulate. So they always have it in their head, you know, who, who do you admire?
Daisi: [22:29] What are you trying to create? Who are you trying to be like? And, and it’s not an insult to say, I’m trying to be like so-and-so. And so, and so, um, it’s, it’s just inspiration because your product, at the end of the day, your image is not going to come out exactly like white claw, right? It’s going to come out. Even if you try to duplicate every aspect of the photo, it’s not going to come out the same because we are different people. We have different energy. We know it would take an immense w a budget to really duplicate something that’s already existed, especially they have that kind of money. Um, and so I try to pull what you’re most inspired by out and find ways to recreate it. And then like, I kinda try to spec it out for you, like, uh, you know, explain to you what it’s gonna look like.
Daisi: [23:14] Um, well how we’re gonna do it, you know, break down the process of what we’re going to do and, um, and then, you know, once it’s green-lighted, then we actually shoot it. And, um, and so that’s that, that’s how it works with us. Um, we really, you know, hold your hand step-by-step. Um, once it, especially if this is your first product, um, with some of our clients that have been working with us for awhile, we know their brand story, we know what they’re trying to do or what they are, what they want to continue doing. And so then it just becomes, you know, a simple ordering process and we’re just recreating the wheel for them. Um, so, you know, that’s how, but that’s how the relationship begins.
Stephen: [23:52] Okay. And so as I think about that, there are different, there are different types of photos, right? So Steve’s water bottle, there has to be, you know, product photos. But there are other things, there’s marketing photos, right? They’re different until, can you talk about the different types of photos? Um, cause I’m very intrigued by this.
Daisi: [24:11] Yeah. So there’s a product photos like you said, and those are historically, those have been the photos that you see on white, you know, white background, psych, white, so your kid doesn’t have a, you know, any lines it can know beginning to end. It’s just the product on a white background. Um, and then there’s marketing photos. So there’s the banner, like a lot of people use like WordPress or Shopify sites and they have like the big banner going across the top. So those are the marketing photos. You know, maybe you’re gonna make a brochure or for, uh, for brick and mortar reasons or for, you know, in person marketing different. Correct. That’s different. Yes. And, um, and then there’s Instagram and then there’s Facebook and you know, and Pinterest and Snapchat and all that stuff. And, and, and a lot of ways, some of that, some of the content can cross over. But in a lot of ways, the ecosystem up all these platforms are very different. And so the, the audience responds to different types of images. Um, Instagram is by far the most differentiated marketplace for content and for content marketing. Um, and so you are always shooting something different for Instagram than anything else.
Stephen: [25:22] Well, so what would be, what would be, you know, let’s go back to my water bottle. Okay. So on Amazon, I have to have, my main image has to be on a white background. It’s a picture of my water bottle. Right? It shows that beautiful. Uh, the secondary ones would be more lifestyle, right? You would have, you know, you could see it on the guy in a bike drinking it, whatever, that kind of thing. Right. I get the Amazon piece. Yeah. What would be the approach for Instagram for that exact example?
Daisi: [25:45] Instagram on one end, one example is that it’s all about real use. So that’s why influencers do so well. Real use. Like who’s really using your product, right? Who’s really using your product. Right. Uh, and, and so even if it’s only on your feet, like you don’t have like a team of influencers yet and you’re on your feed, you want it, people want to see it, the water bottle in as if it’s really being used, right? And they don’t want it to be directly salesy. So there are, you know, the photos where the influencer or someone that just holding up their product, right? But what performs better is if they’re holding up that product when they just finished biking up Runyon Canyon or something like that. Right. Um, those do really well. And that is, that is how the, the meat and potatoes of how Instagram, um, and content marketing on Instagram really works. Um, the other side of it is, uh, like with, I’ll expand a little bit outside of the water bottle and say like cosmetics, right? So some of the most [inaudible] a lot about, no. Okay. No.
Daisi: [26:52] So with cosmetics, what is w what works really well is not just saying, Oh, this product does great for your skin. Um, but seeing the product alongside other brands products, right? Because the co, the female consumer does not just use one brand for everything. And so you’re duplicating what someone’s vanity really looks like in real life and you’re inserting your product in their, um, or, and, or you are she using real people showing real people out, applying the product like in real time on their face. So, um, if it’s an eye cream, you know, like there’s a lot of shots of like, uh, the, the consumer on one eye, putting the item under the eye and it hasn’t fully absorbed yet and then holding the product, you know, uh, casually in our hand. So it’s not about selling, like I’m holding it up like, uh, like I’m endorsing this product. It’s, it’s, you’re holding it casually. It’s so, it’s like a slice of life moment. It’s like in the moment. Yeah. Natural
Stephen: [27:57] ms. But I, I get what you’re saying. Uh, no, but it makes sense to me because again, you’re back to this, I wrote this down, real use, real use real is, I’ve never heard it put that way. I love it. I love that she can, that I’d like to. Um, let’s talk about, um, I’m gonna do some product photography for my water bottle line and I can’t, if I’m out, I’m bootstrapping it. Daisy, I got no money. Right? So I’m bootstrapping it. What’s the approach? What’s the best approach for somebody new who’s getting started and they’re bringing their product to market? Um, what’s, what’s, what do they need? What, what do you recommend?
Daisi: [28:34] Um, I really think that they need a content partner. Um, I think a lot of people try to do the first thing out the gate when someone’s starting to launch a product is that they try to do with themselves, right? Um, the first thing they go, I’m going to do everything myself. And, and I actually actually had a client, we get several clients like that, but one in particular I’m thinking about at the moment, you know, wanted to do tee shirts and they spent a lot of money on the product and then they tried to do the photos themselves and they got zero sales. Um, and they were spending a lot of money, um, doing like Instagram marketing and Facebook ads and, and uh, Instagram ads and stuff like that. And they were not converting at all and they were giving a lot of tee shirts away to, uh, to people that they thought were going to create content for them or, uh, you know, influencers.
Daisi: [29:20] Um, but because of the, the feed itself did not have any good content on it. No influencer with a substantial following or that did this professional, they wanted to create content for the Rand because you’re, the people that you’re working with are reflection of you. And so I really recommend that people that are starting a new product, even if it’s like an Alec, you know, it’s not maybe like an ongoing thing cause it’s their first product, but they, they do work with a content partner to figure out how to best showcase that product. Um, I think it saves, not all the time.
Stephen: [29:52] I think that’s important, right? You’re not in love. Like I love my water bottle. I’m telling you, Daisy, it’s going to solve world peace. I mean, it’s the best thing. I’m in love with it because I created it. You get to take an objective look right and say this is what works. Yeah. See that’s, that’s valuable because again, you know, my mom’s gonna say it’s the best water bottle ever.
Daisi: [30:12] Right. It’s very true. Right. We get a lot of that. Oh my God. When I first started, especially, you know, um, a lot of people just like in love with their products and in love with their ideas and they had spent like lots of money trying to trademark and patent. They’re there for their products before they even sold anything. And, and you know, and it’s like they spend so much money and they didn’t even have a good photo of it or good, you know, example of it. And so yeah, people are, they don’t ask, they just, they don’t look outside for feedback. They just go with like everyone else’s agrees with them. Right. I mean, it’s like that’s I want, I want everybody to tell me how great I am. That’s all I want right now. Yes. Yeah.
Stephen: [30:53] So let’s talk about a couple more things that are in your, your, uh, topics that I like to talk about. Because some of these I’m confused on stock photos, manufacturer photos and original photos. And I think because, you know, like for example, we have a client that we’re getting ready to help bring to retail. So we have to go out it from a completely different approach because it’s, it’s a wholesale now we’re going to sell it wholesale to somebody else and it’s such a different approach of marketing for us. And so, you know, we have to build this catalog if, you know, lack of a better term, uh, of, uh, or to represent a product sheet for each one of these and then put it in some kind of form to present to them. And it’s way different than what we’re, you know, we’re not showing real use for that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk about those stock photos, manufacturer photos and original photos that differences
Daisi: [31:44] [inaudible]. So stock photos, um, if you go on like a Shutterstock or a deposit photo, you know, you can download or but purchase a, a photo of someone, you know, brushing their teeth or it’s, it’s nondescript, you know, it’s a person brushing their teeth and you can use that in a lot of different ways. You can use that if you’re selling teeth whitening, you know, on your website. Um, and, but other people can use that photo too so other people can buy and download that photo and use it the same way that you’re using it. Um, so it’s stock, it’s, it’s generic and it’s meant for mass commercial use. Have you seen the same stock photo used for different brands? Oh my God, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Oh, I know a stock photo. So because I spent so much time working with images, I can spot a stock photo, like, yeah, it’s amazing. And then when I see a new one, it’s the, it’s also the style, um, that stock photos are traditionally shot in. So, even if I’ve never seen the photo, that particular photo again, I can kind of look at a photo and go, Oh that’s a stock photo. Somebody, you know, like it’s a series of stock photos and I can generally tell when it came from like I’m one of the big sites because they have very specific strict requirements that do not nurture creativity. And so everything kind of starts to look the same.
Stephen: [33:07] And does that help sell product? Be honest. In your experience, do they help sell products?
Daisi: [33:12] No, I think that it, how I think in the beginning, you know, if you need a stock photo, a filler here or there because it’s yeah, filler cause it’s way too difficult to like recreate, um, something what you’re looking to do or what you’re want that photo to the need. You want that photo to fill. Um, I think that, uh, it’s fine, right? You don’t have to be original across the board, but um, but you cannot have a whole site or whole Instagram feed or with the stock photos.
Stephen: [33:42] I’ve heard them called holding photos. Right. So you’re holding that space, you know, the real ones coming in. This, he got to get it out there cause there’s a million little nuances to launching, right? So you gotta get something in there, but you’re not pushing it. Right. You just get it in there. You hold it there. So if somebody found it magically, boom, it’s there. But it’s not what you’re, that’s not your sales pitch yet.
Daisi: [34:01] Yes. Yeah. And a lot of people are on a journey, right? So they’re on a journey and you know, maybe they started on, uh, on Amazon and you know, they’re going to build a standalone site and they’re, they’re, they’re inching their way there. And so in that sense, you know, it’s fine. It’s a holder. Would you, what did you say the term was? A holder photo. Yeah. Yeah. Private label. [inaudible] and that’s fine. I’ve been told tell they can really, you know, build the momentum and create their own content and, and stuff like that. Um, and then there’s manufactured photos. So you see this a lot, um, everywhere actually because everywhere, but especially when with, uh, fashion e-commerce, um, you see a lot of people just use the photos from the manufacturer, so the manufacturer has to produce their photos so that they could sell. They can show you what they’re selling.
Daisi: [34:52] Um, and most of the time, those menu, I was a model in China as I can tell you this too, like with 100%, uh, IX fact behind it. Um, those photos are produced in China. And so they don’t exactly fit the demographic here. And, and I mean, I’m an outlier in a sense. I worked in a Guan Jo, which is where a lot of the factories are, and, and a lot of manufacturer in a lot of the photos are produced. Um, I was an outlier in that sense, but most of them are not, uh, targeted towards this audio quality. Yes. And, and, um, and there w the photos are, uh, modified a lot, so you don’t know what you’re really getting. Um, and, and if you turn around and use that photo when your eCommerce site to sell to your, uh, your customers, then you, and a lot of times you are misinforming them, you know, because misleading them because they, uh, they think they’re buying what’s in the photo and how it’s going to look like, you know, on them is how it’s going to look on the model in the photo.
Daisi: [36:00] Um, and that’s not necessarily so, and so, um, if you can create, you know, your own product shots and especially with the, with fashion eCommerce, then you, that is better than using the manufacturer photos because it’s more true to true to life. And also you can create content that caters to your specific audience. And if your specific audience for this is a very real situation that’s been happening for the last, like five or six years in the U S if your target audience is a plus size woman size 14 to 16, then the photos that you’re getting from China are not speaking to that demographic,
Stephen: [36:44] you know, as a woman, especially as a model. But as a woman, you’re not buying that. Correct. I mean, cause it, you’re envisioning it on you. You don’t, I mean be honest. I mean, are you trying, maybe you’re a bad example to ask this question too, but the normal American woman are they, they see that the, the young girl in the bikini on the beach and they want to envision themselves looking like that of course. But then they does a reality hit and they say, okay, I know I wouldn’t wear that. She can cause she, she looks like that. I’m looking for something a little more. My type in is that, I mean, when they make a buying decision, which one are they buying? The girl on the beach or the realistic plus size model? Your, your example.
Daisi: [37:23] So you know what I mean? Yes, yes. I do know exactly what you mean. [inaudible] question. It’s very uncomfortable for me. But yes, it’s a real question. The question we don’t know. You know, there is a duality that happens in women’s minds a lot of times where I, ideal ology, they would like to be that woman on the beach. You know, that model and that photo. And in reality, they have to buy a couple of sizes up and they don’t have the, the issue comes in when they don’t have an example of what it’s gonna look like on their body. And especially when, you know, a lot of the manufacturer photos from China are, the women are very small. Right? I mean, they’re like,
Stephen: [38:03] so if like your example where they don’t have an example, they’re just not buying,
Daisi: [38:07] they’re either not fun. Yeah. They’re either not buying or they’re buying the large right. And then they get it. And it’s not, it’s they’re getting it and opening. And it’s not a real large, because a large from a lot of these sites and a lot of these factories is not an American large. Right. And it doesn’t fit, you know, I mean, there’s been a lot of, uh, commentary about this, like a Buzzfeed even does these love listicles of women that bought things off of a Amazon from like Chinese sellers or for people that, you know, got the products from China. I’m on the wish app on eBay. They get it. And it’s not the real thing or it’s supposed to be a large, but, uh, you know, they stretched the photo and they made the woman’s hips bigger and, um, it really doesn’t fit like that in real life.
Daisi: [38:52] Um, and a lot of it, especially because, and I’ll say this and I love guys and you know, and everything, but a lot of the, a lot of guys are in our, in the eCommerce space, right? And they’re selling women’s products and they’re like, yeah, you know, this, this picture is fine. They don’t see the value in creating new fashion pictures because they’re like, Oh, what’s wrong with this woman? And can’t you tell get you just like, get in a couple of sizes smaller and it’ll fit. And they don’t know the nuances of sizing and
Stephen: [39:23] no sense to us. You know, my wife, it drives her crazy. We’ll walk into a store, I’ll be like, there’s my size. I’m just going to buy those. She’s like, you gotta try it on. I’m like, I’m not trying to not wear the same size forever. I’m not, what do I need? And then we’ll go and she’ll be like, Oh, that one doesn’t fit well, we’ll be there for an hour. And it’s like, are you kidding? I mean, what, wait, they’re all don’t decide on the tag matter. No, she tells me no means nothing. And I’m like, Oh my God. Yeah. I mean it is complicated now. She also does qualify and say that a man created it and she always complains about that. She always complains about that. So that’s a real issue though. So, so brands and we’re so back to the bathing suit example.
Stephen: [40:01] So is it okay then to show all the different size models and you kind of pick out the one that you are, I mean, is that, I mean, is that the, what you do on an Amazon? Like you’d be a small medium and I, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s a good example, but small, medium, and large of shoe. Let’s use that. Um, and you would show all three different examples. Maybe she was good, but you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I’m stumbling. I’m still stumbling over the, the whole bathing suit thing still.
Daisi: [40:27] Here’s what, what I did. Um, and I think this is a really good case study for this. Um, so before right about the time I started my product model, I was also selling on Amazon and I somehow fell into selling these linen pants. And these linen pants are fold over there. They fold, the waist folds over so they’re not constricting and they stretch and they came in like chocolate, beige, black, Navy white. They came in a bunch of different colors and they sold them in standard sizes, small, medium and large. And they sold them in plus sizes one X, two X three X. And what I did originally was piggyback an existing listing that was selling these, uh, these pants. Like, like, I don’t know, they were selling them like so fast. And I piggybacked that listing. I had the inventory because I live, I live in Los Angeles and I live near, uh, the fashion district.
Daisi: [41:24] So I have access to a lot of showrooms, warehouses and, and, uh, a lot of stuff that I can just go and buy. And I have, uh, a resellers license so I can just go and pick up and, and sell. So I knew that if no matter what I sold, I could go get and I knew where to get it. So I, uh, fulfilled some orders and I realized, I learned through the sales that I sold, I was selling a lot of one X two X and three X in, in this cocoa color, right. Cocoa and Navy were like my top colors. And so then I created a new listing, um, and this was when Amazon was a little easier to kind of like manipulate and stuff. Um, I create a new listing and I redid the copy and I redid the title of listing and it was like plus size, like fold over plus size, linen pants, something that was exactly what this audience was looking for.
Daisi: [42:19] And I got a plus size model, um, come in and put on these pants. And I really focused on showing the flexibility in how big, how much you could stretch the waist and how comfortable these these pants were. So I had her walking down the street, you know, she didn’t get like the thigh rub where the pants start bunching up between the thighs. Um, I focused the Owen getting closeups of the waistband and showing how comfortable it is around her belly. Um, and, and that is what I focused on because I, I use real use and I learned that for this particular product, um, the most important size I needed to show was the plus size. Um, and then we got to a point, once I figured that out, I said, okay, well I would like to start selling some smaller sizes because I’m going to be here with these plus size, sell out a plus size and I’m not gonna have any small sizes.
Daisi: [43:13] And so then I thought about how to create a images that captured the elegance and the comfortability of these foldover linen pants for a standard size, small, medium, large professional woman. And so I went out and I took pictures of me wearing these pants around my office and like meetings with high heels, you know, with linen tops. Like, I, I’m, I made it look luxurious but also comfortable. Like, like you would Belinda, that you would wear if you went on a vacation to Hawaii and um, and, and so that’s how I think of, that’s how I think about things, right? It’s like you can’t have a model, you know, there’s not enough space on Amazon or an eCommerce sites to have a picture for every size there is. So figure out which size is your target demographic and then cater to that. We use a two X model, so it’s in between one X and two X and we actually wrote in the copy that the model pictured here is a size two X. So it doesn’t take much imagination to think of what it would look like. A size larger in a size smaller.
Daisi: [44:29] And, and that’s how we sold. We moved those products and honestly we were selling like 25 to 50 units a day. It was ridiculous on like we had like three or four listings. It was on each listing. It was ridiculous. Like it was, it was amazing. I mean if I left
Stephen: [44:47] relatable for a woman that she could actually see herself there.
Daisi: [44:50] Yes, she could see herself there and she knew what she was getting and um, and I would do a little bit of research. So at first we didn’t do fulfilled by Amazon. We um, I fulfill these orders myself and I would look at where the addresses to where these people that were buying these pants were located. Sometimes I would even Google them and I would go on Facebook and I would look, I would Google them on, you know, search for them on Facebook and I would look at what they look like and what they did every day. And a lot of them, a lot of the women were sitting behind computers, they were plus size, they were sitting behind computers, they didn’t like the pants on squeezing in the middle of their waist, like after they sat for five or six hours. And then you get water retention.
Daisi: [45:35] And I’m a woman, so I know that no matter what size you are sitting and having something squeezing at your waist gets water retention in your legs. And it makes you bloat. Right. And, and, um, they wanted something comfortable. Um, some of the women wanted, it was the only pair of pants that they could wear in the winter, um, because they couldn’t fit a lot of the standard sizes for plus size. And, and because the, the waistband is stretched so much, they could actually be like a Forex, make aware of three acts. And, and I, I just thought like really just research my customer and I like, you know, spying on my customer to understand them more. But a lot of them were sitting all day.
Stephen: [46:15] Hmm. By doing that research and then showing the real use, you made the connection. So there’s the lesson, right. That’s I was going to say, you know, what’s the secret sauce? That’s the lesson. And in today’s marketplace, is this pretty much the same across all marketplaces? Is that what you see?
Daisi: [46:29] That’s what I see. And honestly, like when we’re creating content, that’s what I do. I spy on the customer. And it sounds kind of shady to say, but, and
Stephen: [46:39] back in the old days, right? They would have had a, they would have brought consumers in. They would have done this testing. They would have answered, asked all these quite right, that, that’s the way they used to do it. But that costs gazillions of dollars, right? And you could do this just as you described. So again, go back, make your product for your ideal customer. Go out and see what your ideal customer is going to do with it. And then that’s the way you market to them. Real use. Ooh, I love that too. I’m going to take that term. I’m going to use it. I like it. It’s just a, it’s just so, it’s so easy for me to, when I say it, I get it. I actually get it. All right. So one of the things that you guys have services and so, um, you know, I’m going to throw this out here.
Stephen: [47:18] So it’s my product. model.com is the name of the website. You can go out there and you could see so many examples. There’s a million Amazon ads, all the Amazon listeners can go out there and see some examples of products that you’ve, uh, help bring to market. Um, and, uh, a lot of companies, you guys have worked with a lot of different companies, so you’ve seen a lot of different things. Um, let’s close it out with, uh, types of services. Cause one of the things that you were able to talk about is what it would take for somebody to get a product, uh, model, because that’s, that’s scary, right? To be able to hire a model, hire photographer, hire, get a place to take those pictures and that, can you talk us through what that would look like and you know, in a short version? Sure. Um, you mean through us or through you and then through, you know, I guess what people can expect. Maybe that’s the best way to say it. What would, what should somebody expect me? We can set some expectations.
Daisi: [48:10] So with us, um, we are a, a service as a product. Um, so everything comes included. A photography model, you know, you set up the product, we have the studio. Yeah. Um, and so there are, which is great, but it also some constructions like it’s the models that we have available. So the photographers that, you know, we have, it’s in our ecosystem so we can take control over that, but we provide a good product for you. Um, because when a customer has to do this on their own, they have to go out there and source a Pataka for, they have to get pricing, they have to then go out and source models and they have to figure out, you know, when the model is going to show up, if the model, if the photographer is going to show up, if the photog was going to take their check and run, if the model is actually going to show up on time. Um, and you know, makeup is very important. Um, hair is also, yeah. Um, and you know, it takes a lot to make a photo look good. So it’s not like, Oh, you can do your own makeup and you know, it’s not like that. Um, or it’s not even, you can do your own makeup and we’ll fix it in Photoshop because some things you can’t fix ’em or you shouldn’t be trying to fix in Photoshop.
Stephen: [49:14] Okay. Again, that’s not the real use, right. Again, that’s the problem. That misleading.
Daisi: [49:19] Yes, exactly. Um, and you know, typically within like three to seven days, we deliver, uh, your digital content to you, um, and right to your inbox, um, with working with all these, if you are doing this independently, then you have to contact the photographer. You know, a lot of times the photographers want to make as much money as they can so they’re trying to, uh, charge you per image or you know, per image, per retouching, per shot, et cetera. And, um, and that gets very expensive. You oftentimes are not retaining the rights to those photos. Um, and so your used with those photos are limited with us. We give you a license to use the photos, um, and definitely for your marketing purposes for that particular, um, product. Um, and that’s on your website, on Instagram, on social media and so forth and so on. And so, and we also try to educate you along the way on licensing, on how licensing works and so forth. So you don’t get into any trouble down the line. Um, you get a full release of from the model, um, from the photographer, uh, from us and um, and we, you know, try to keep you very happy in terms of giving
Stephen: [50:28] you the content that you need. I’m, we work a LA carte, which means that you can purchase a service very inexpensive. I’ll be honest with you. I mean I’m looking at your, I was expecting, I’m like, Oh God, here we go. It’s going to be thousands and [inaudible] looks like you have some enterprise stuff, but I mean you’ll, do you have stock photos that you can use. You’ll look, create videos, product videos. That’s huge right now. Everybody needs that on Amazon. Um, and it’s very inexpensive. All the prices are out here. Um, when you go to, again, my product model.com, there’s an order now and you can actually see examples of the pricing blows my mind. I was expecting to be honest with you, I was expecting it to be worse. Um, that’s good. That’s good. No, just because I mean, I understand, I mean, you know, but you guys have figured it out, uh, at scale, um, how to do it.
Stephen: [51:13] So that’s really awesome. I mean, it’s really come down to ask for we, Oh, I own the entire ecosystem. So I own the cameras. My other studio, um, you know, I’ve been in the modeling in the industry for a long time. I have, I still work not every day, but quite often and I have a lot of friends. Um, and you know, and these people want to work. And so creating something affordable and accessible for small businesses where eCommerce entrepreneurs and also being able to employ, um, people that, you know, it’s getting harder and harder, it’s more competitive to get work, um, is really great. And um, and I really enjoy and like what I’ve created here and, and being able to bring these people together and the products you do as a dead, I’m listening to you. You father must be so proud because you went into a career that most people would be like, ah, you know, and yeah, she’s pretty, but you know, we’ll see.
Stephen: [52:03] You never make any money. You never here you have figured out how to make a business. You didn’t just take pictures to, Oh man, I’m so impressed. I said, dad, Oh, thank you. Proud, proud, very proud. So somebody wants more information. So my product, my product model.com is the website. And again, go out there and check the prices. Um, compare them against who you’re getting your product model photography from. Um, and so you have how in line or out of line, that’s always a good thing too. If somebody wants to follow up with more questions, uh, what’s the best way to get in touch with you? Um, our email firstname.lastname@example.org we’re also on Instagram at my product model and artificial light to, yeah, a lot of people like instant message through there. Um, and uh, we’re also, are we basically, you’d go wherever we’re at pretty much everywhere.
Stephen: [52:52] Um, Instagram, Facebook, you know, our site. And, uh, and everywhere else we have a contact form on our website if you, um, want to reach us through there as well. It’s awesome. Thank you so much. I love it again. Thanks dad. How cool. Um, again, you know, I’m teasing about the dead thing, but I’m telling you, she, you know, had had a talent, use the talent, but she’s able to capitalize it. That’s the art of what you’re doing today. You have a skill set somewhere, so bring it into this Amazon world or this eBay world, whatever, and capitalize on it. Pay attention and utilize those skills and she’s doing a great job at it and you can see it and check out the website and sec, check out a lot of the stuff that they’ve done. E-commerce, momentum.com e-commerce, momentum.com take care.
Cool voice guy: [53:39] Thanks for listening to the e-commerce momentum podcast. All the links mentioned today can be found at [inaudible] commerce momentum.com under this episode number, please remember to subscribe and like us on iTunes.