This week on “The Liberty Alert Greg Seltz,” join Dr. Seltz and his guest, Virginia Prodan, International Human Rights Attorney, best-selling author, and President of Virginia Prodan Ministries, as she shares her real-world experience of defending freedom under Communism in her homeland of Romania, the threats, the struggles, the challenges and the opportunities to be God’s people for others even then, and especially now. Listen in for the political, the cultural, the moral, and the faith perspective on this vital topic for you and those whom you love. See how, even in these times, we are empowered to be God’s people for others. And be challenged along with us as we continue to grow in the wisdom needed to be 2 Kingdom citizens for the country we love. Join us!

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministry.

Welcome to Liberty action alert with Greg sells, sponsored by our friends at the Lutheran center for religious Liberty here in Washington, DC, a program that cuts through the chaos and confusion in the culture today by talking to kingdom, citizenship, bold biblical principles for a robust public Christian life. And now your host, Dr. Greg sells

Good day, good day, Washington, DC, and friends of the program all across the country. I'm Greg, Seltz welcome to Liberty action alert today. We're privileged to have with this Virginia, Peran an international human rights attorney. She's a sought after international speaker. And of course, some of you, many of you know her as the author of the best seller saving my assassin. And we'll talk about that a little bit towards the end of the program. She's also the president of Virginia Pean ministries welcome Virginia.

Well, thank you so very much for having me, Greg. I really appreciate that. I, uh, I'm very, uh, encouraged by everything that you are doing with your ministry and I'm honored to be here and, uh, shared with, uh, with your audience, what, uh, what I learned and what the good Lord helped me, uh, yeah. To point out to them, what's going on?

Well, your life has been, your life has been a, a life of the power of religious Liberty, the power of faith in action in the middle of really trying circumstances. And I think that's what I want to convey to our listeners. So let me start with your ministry's mission statement is to encourage, equip and empower families and leaders to live a courageous victorious life, even amid suffering, harassment, discrimination, and persecution, which leads me into our discussion today. There's a growing acceptance of the kind of secular socialism that you grew up under in Romania and Chevs. And, and, and I guess I, and it's destructive to culture in our Liberty, but why is it so attractive to our young people today? And what would you say to them?

I, uh, I will say, uh, based on my own experience, it is attractive to many of them because they, uh, brainwash, but it is until I go to those college and universities and even, um, uh, you know, not, not conservative, not even Christian universities, uh, people hear my story and people will, uh, will go and, and buy my book, saving my assassin because explains the reality of socialists, right? Those young people don't know very much about socialists, the reality and atrocities, except from liberals and liberal leaders that are telling them that it's gonna be wonderful, that government is gonna take care of them. And government is, is gonna be their God. Right.

We also have, uh, in, in this country, a generation that apply for student loans. Uh, now they are in debt, a generation that move during college from one, one major to another. They never pay attention how much money they spend in four years of college dragging to six years in college. And because of that, they limit their, uh, possibilities. That was a custom when I came to United States of America that I really love. Um, and that was students college or graduates after graduation, between graduation and the time they, they will have to report to work will put a backpack in their back and will go and travel Europe. And they will go and travel. Um, you know, not only capitalist countries, but socialist countries. And I had the opportunity to be in airplane with one of this young person who was talking all the time. I was tired, but because he was so excited about what he was able to see in socialist country and how beautiful, how wonderful we have here in America. I forgive him and listen, they had time and that is missing today because our students don't go, don't go sometimes out of their own cities. Right. And they just take everything that the government or, or the leaders of college and universities.

Yeah. You know, and what, you know, what you are saying is that we're at, they're actually becoming more dependent on, on the actual system. And they're not really living the kind of productive free lives that God would want them to live. You're exactly right. My daughter studied abroad. And when she was studying abroad, she realized she was in Paris. And it was a progressive tax system there, which is not obviously not a socialist country, but it, it actually was still a country that diminished a person's right to, to live freely in a lot of ways. And this one person, she got to know, owned a bunch of properties in the middle of Paris. You'd think he'd be wealthy and have all kinds of money. And they found out that the more they made, the more the government took from them and they were kind of trapped. They were trapped between total dependency and freedom and they couldn't get out. And the son of the father said, if we could move to America, we would. And that's a lot better even there than in a lot of the countries, like where you grew up in Romania, right?

Yes, exactly, exactly. But that's exactly what is missing, um, the experience and they don't have it. And because of that, and also, um, because they listen to socialists, uh, leaders and everything socialists in, in general, it's a society that is built on jealousy, envy eating, everything that the capitalist, um, era built earn is based also on violence. There is no way that when the socialist establishes as a system to take your house or to take your wealth and give it to someone without being violent, being violent, in a sense that they will put you in jail that will kill you, or they will kill your kids. Something it's gonna happen, uh, worse than we see it right now.

Right. And you, well, again, you live that reality. And, and the notion that we can benevolently through government create like a utopia on earth. Like you just, as I already said, that's an alternative religion folks. And in America, the great thing about our founding fathers is they differentiated church and state from each other, but they put the state on the bottom. It was the state they were worried about not the church and, and this notion of the benevolent government that a lot of people are being taught today is a usurp patient. It's the state encroaching on the, the areas where the church and free people used to take care of their own business. And it's a much better, uh, state and a much better church if it's differentiated properly while the socialists basically eliminate the church eventually. And they, they, they create this notion of a benevolent state that really cares about you and that's bad government and even worse religion. So Virginia, talk a little bit about then what you experienced in Romania, because I think the best way to get at some of this is to talk about, you know, why you became a human rights lawyer, why you actually fought this back in your home country, what you saw your own citizens, your own friends and neighbors and family losing.

I, uh, I noticed things that I can see right now in America. Okay. As, as a young kid, I noticed that my parents were politically correct outside of the home. Uh, but inside of the home, they will explain how horrible the government is and how the government will take more rights. And I didn't want to leave this life like them. So I am asking you listeners to be very careful, are they spreading fear or fate around their own kids? Their, their people around them are watching and they can be a good influence or a bad influence. I had also, uh, lawyers in my family, and I noticed that they were able to answer the question, but not to speak up and be courageous. So for that reason, I went to law school and for four years at law school, I hope that I will find the truth and I will speak up for the truth.

But, uh, one of my client who was a Christian, but I didn't know, he was just full of joy and peace in a land of joyless and lack of peace. And one day I, I said to him, because I thought that he was crazy being so relaxed and being so joyful in a, in a horrible situation. And he asked me if I believe, if I go to church and he invited me to church and there at church, I heard the preacher open the Bible, reading John 16, four, Jesus Christ said, I am the truth the way in the life. Nobody comes to the father except for me. And that was the day when I realized that Christ is a truth. And I accepted him as my Lord and savior. And also I accepted his divine call on my life to find, to defend Christian and human rights cases. And I have to say, I didn't have to look for, for cases because

Yeah, they came, they came right to you. Right.

And let me give, uh, some examples of, um, kind of cases that I defended. I defended young people that will, uh, Christians that will take Bibles from one, one church in Romania to another, for vacation Bible schools and will be arrested because the government will pretend that they SP for, for, uh, America, because the Bibles were printed in America. We didn't have any possibility to print Bibles in Romania. I defended, uh, doctors who will give prescription to the, their patients earn also give a Bible or a Bible verse, and the list goes on and on. You can go and read, uh, saving my assassin again. You can find it at Virginia Prada books that comes slash product slash book. And there is a totally list of cases, not only list of cases, but it's very important for young people and people that are still in love with socialists to realize reading that book, that in socialists, you do not decide your profession, right? You do not decide where you are gonna exercise your profession, but the government will decide everything. Absolutely. Everything.

Let me just phrase it this way, because I interviewed now, again, this is, this was in a Western country, but we had Bishop, um, Johanna POAH who's in Finland. He was on trial for actually teaching the biblical truth about marriage and sexual sexuality. Yeah. And he could have, have gone to prison. He could have gone to prison, been fined, you know, all those different kinds of things. And when I would bring that up to our people, I would say, look, this is already happening. I call 'em secular blasphemy laws. They're already happening over in the west. Not, not just in socialist countries now in supposedly capitalist or free countries. And, and I would say, and that's coming here. And a lot of times I would hear in our churches, ah, you're, you're, you're overstating the case. It's not as bad as you think, but talk to folks like that who say, okay, Virginia, we're sorry to hear what happened to you in Romania, but it's not like that here.

That is not the truth. I am telling you the reason those people will say that one is because there is an arrogance American arrogance thinking that no, we are not gonna, we are gonna build socialists, uh, like never in the history of, of the world. And we watch everything that's happening in socialist country, but we don't want to recognize that. And the second one is it's human. When you admit that there is a situation, you have to take a position. And those people do not want to take a position. They just want to deny and say, nothing is gonna happen. Yes, it's happening right now. Right now we have during, uh, COVID people, churches that were close, we have a number of, uh, pastors that are afraid right now to speak about what a family is, according to the Bible, what, uh, scene is and homosexuality and others. And we have to pray for those. And we also have to encourage them to speak up. So it's happening right now. Fear covers lots of people in America. And because of that, they don't want to take a position.

Yeah. Where there, you know, where there's truth and where there's faith. There is no fear. And I think you're talking about that. But again, a lot of people, I, I, you know, I never thought about it that way. In some sense, there's an arrogance that says, well, it cannot happen here. But then like you talked about in, in, on your website, freedom is precious, but also, uh, freedom is not free. There there's there's sacrifices that need to be made there's virtue that needs to be lived. And, and there's things that need to be pushed back into their proper place for freedom to endure. So, Virginia, talk a little bit about what happened to you, even in Romania, because eventually the government sent people to silence you. I mean, they literally said we we've had enough of this woman and we want to be done with her. So they sent an assassin to get rid of you. And so talk through how you went from not just defending people's right. To do these things because the gospel needs to be proclaimed the whole council of God. But then even when the government finally came after you, you utilized that as a, as what you thought could have been your final opportunity to be the Christian that you are for the sake of someone else. Talk about those experiences.

That is so true. After years, when the government put, arrested me, uh, beat and tortured me every single day, uh, put me on the house, arrest the dictator, uh, established what he consider a perfect plan to, uh, kill me and to get rid of me. So one day he, uh, send, uh, a new client to my office and because they had microphones everywhere in my office and my home, they knew about my whereabouts. So the new client came really late at the closing time. So my assistant just allowed, introduced him to my office as the new client. And she said, I'm leaving to, uh, to pick up my kids. The minute that he heard that my assistant closed the door to the office, he pulled his jacket, took his gun and pointed to my face and said, I'm not your client. I'm here to kill you.

President Nicole sent me and he was screaming. And he was even joyful saying that because he explained to me that because he is doing what he will do this job, he will be number one in dictator's, um, era. And you can imagine that I was afraid. I, I, I was an, I am under five feet tall, 82 pounds. And he was six, 10, uh, like a football player pointed his gun at me. I knew that there was no way to escape, right? But I, I, my knee was shaking. I was all shaking. I hurt my, my heart in my ears, but I also, I felt like I was alone, but still I was not. I heard the Lord saying, share the gospel with him. And I did. And as I shared the gospel with him, he put the gun down on the table, his shoulders relax, and kind of melting, melted under God's God's power.

And at the end, he accepted Christ as his Lord than savior. And I will tell you, as secret as you read saving my assassin years later, as, uh, few years after this, I came to United States of America as a political refugee. I learned English. I, um, went to a law school again this time at S N I opened my law office. And 20 years after the event in Romania, in my law office, in Dallas, Texas, a new client came and he had a case. He explained the case. And after he explained the case, he look at me very frustrating and said, Eugenia, don't you recognize me? I said, no thinking, who is this man? And he showed me his ID for a few seconds. I relieved that moment back in Romania when he had the gun me, right. And we started to share what God is doing in our lives and everything.

And I explained that I'm writing my memoir, saving my assassin. And he asked me, beg me to let him write a chapter in my, my book. Wow. And today you will read his chapter in my book, saving my assassin. It's an absolutely amazing opportunity for many people to read his chapter. As he explained how the government attracted him back in Romania was he was young with free staff, uh, things that the government will take care of him and everything, and gradually transform him into a monster who will go and, uh, kill people, plant documents in people's, uh, li uh, home or offices. In order later on to arrest them. He was a monster and he wanted to climb the, the stairs up and up and up. Right. And also he explained how God changed his life. I, I wanna tell you just two secrets. He is a pastor today, and he has a granddaughter and he named the granddaughter. And my honor, Virginia,

great.

Please read, read my memoir. We'll encourage you to be strong and courageous.

Well, and I think that's, and that's what I wanna finally get to because the work that we do here at the Luther center for religious liberties, we defend religious Liber. We defend the sanctity of life. We defend these things and everyone says, oh, you're being so political. And, and, and you're being divisive. And I'm saying, no, we're standing on the truth because the truth is foundational to all human life. But we're standing on the truth for the sake of offering people, the, the saving gospel of, of Jesus Christ. And, and it, it's gotta be both ways. You have to speak his truth in love, and that's gonna make you uncomfortable in a world that actually says there is no truth that wants to do whatever it wants to do, and is gonna now weaponize the government to shut down voices like us. And so, you know, Virginia, just in closing here, you know, you've already talked about how the threat is coming here. I love the book by, uh, rod Dre live, but not by lies. And he talks to a lot of people who've come out of, uh, socialist countries. And they said they can't believe what Americans are giving up when they vote, uh, often what should Christians do? I, I think we need to be prepared to be courageous. Like you just said, well, how do we do that? And, and what should be ready to do, uh, in the culture in which we live.

I watch you as, as American Christians, American mm-hmm, from Romania, from overseas, and you help us. And you help so many people, Americans and American, uh, Christians to bring Christ freedom and prosperity all over the world. Right? I came to United States of America almost 33 years ago. I am an American citizen for many years. And I watch you moving from that to fear instead of F it's time for us Christians in America, to bring Christ freedom back to America, because we have done it for so long. And it is possible. Yes, it is harder today to be persecuted in your own country, but victory it's hours in Christ think about I'm under five feet tall. I am a woman, uh, 82 pounds, and I fought against a huge dictator, Nicole cruel dictator, and he had money, army, everything at his fingertips, and God helped me.

He is dead and I'm alive. And God changed Romania through me from a socialist country to a democratic country. What an honor is today for us, Christians, to be strong and courageous, to be Christ, freedom and spective, back to America, and to be used by God and tools, wherever he placed us. If you need any help, I will be happy to help you go to Virginia pro books.com and or Virginia pro.com that the ministry side, and I will help you in any way possible, because freedom is precious and freedom is precious to those who don't have it. We have, we have been having freedom for too long, and sometimes we don't value anymore. And one more thing, if you don't fight the power to fight for you, fight for generations to come look at your kids, look at your neighbors and find the power in you in Christ to fight and stand up for freedom, speak the truth in love, and God will guide you and will give you victories in Christ. Now God bless you. And I hope to see you in this battle.

Yes, indeed. We're gonna be in that battle with you, Virginia. Thank you so much. You know, know like you've reminded us. God is the foundation of all freedom. So whether it's political freedom and that's a, a lesser freedom, we get it. It's not the ultimate freedom that we have by faith, but they're related to each other and God is in involved in all of that. And he's given us his wisdom to be useful in his hands, in both arenas. Thank you for your work, and we will keep you in our prayers. Uh, please keep us in yours. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Greg. And appreciate the platform that you gave me. I appreciate so much your work. It's absolutely amazing. And together we are in this battle and together we gonna win for freedom in Christ for America. God bless you.

God bless you too. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in today to get to know our L C R LDC work better. Check out our website at L C L freedom.org till next time, God bless you. Always I'm Greg sells have a great week.

You've been listening to Liberty action alert with Greg sells executive director of the Lutheran center for religious Liberty in Washington, DC. This program has been brought to you by the Lutheran center for religious Liberty.