Shownotes
- Why your church small groups are more important than ever.
- The need to reframe the Gospel for everyone in small groups.
- Why understanding the community that Jesus formed is key.
- Tools you can use to move your small group toward missional living.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Transcripts
Now, obviously we could proclaim the gospel, even if we sucked at it, we should proclaim it because it's that good.
Hugh Halter:It's the story of what Jesus did, but way more powerfully, as a missionary, when your proclamation is just simply describing to people, what they've been experiencing as they've been in your space.
Hugh Halter:So, you know, uh, reteaching, the gospel is so important.
Hugh Halter:It's, it's really not just a set of doctrines or beliefs that we're trying to get somebody to pull the lever on.
Hugh Halter:Um, they literally should be going, Hey, that was like the other night at your house.
Hugh Halter:And it was like amazing.
Hugh Halter:Like you guys been doing that a long time, you know?
Hugh Halter:So those types of questions where people are leaning in and when that scripture talks about.
Hugh Halter:Being ready when people ask questions.
Hugh Halter:That's what we're talking about.
Hugh Halter:A lived gospel and then a proclaimed gospel.
Announcer:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast where you'll learn how.
Announcer:to live with a greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Announcer:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle, this is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Announcer:And now here's your host Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:Thanks.
Caesar:Heath, thanks for the handoff brother.
Caesar:Hey, it's good to be with y'all today as always.
Caesar:I love, I love doing the show with you.
Caesar:This is probably my favorite.
Caesar:Thing, certainly one of the very favorite things I get to do, I love to communicate and talk about the gospel and discipleship and all of life.
Caesar:And this podcast is a blast.
Caesar:I love doing this with y'all every week, because I get to think through.
Caesar:And talk about what we're doing and how we're doing it and how we're communicating it and who we're equipping and all that.
Caesar:So by the way too, I still got one slot left for a team of couples.
Caesar:If you, and maybe a group of your friends, uh, it's your church or small group or a community, or in a, in a network you're a part of whatever, want to be in a coaching cohort with Tina and I, and learn the framework and all the different tool sets and, and gospel fluency to live this life.
Caesar:In community on mission multiplying and all that, um, check it out, right?
Caesar:Go.
Caesar:You can go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching, and you can take a little look at what that is.
Caesar:I have one slot left for like a team of couples and we're getting started real soon.
Caesar:So, um, at least go take a look at that and, uh, you know, I'd love to have you join us and maybe fill up that last slot.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:Hey, let me move on today.
Caesar:I am really excited.
Caesar:To have my friend Hugh Halter on the podcast with us he's he was on, I don't know, maybe a year ago or so that's a blast he's for sure.
Caesar:One of my best pals and a real motivation to so many people in the church for how and why we get to live together in community.
Caesar:on mission, And I feel like Hugh puts a real, honest and achievable spin on Missional living that really brings it to life.
Caesar:Makes it seem doable in motivates people, myself included.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:And he's done that throughout his many books, including the tangible kingdom and his book, flesh and Bivo, bi-vocational living book and all that.
Caesar:and he's also one of my favorite live speakers.
Caesar:He really is so, , but he's a bit hard to nail down at times, but I I've kind of blackmailed him into being with me today.
Caesar:So let's hear the conversation that we had about shifting small groups, existing small groups to really live as missional communities at a time that the church desperately needs it..
Caesar:Alright, here we go.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:So here I am.
Caesar:I can't even believe it.
Caesar:I get to talk to my brother.
Caesar:Hugh was a hard guy to nail down and due to technology.
Caesar:I even get the see you while talking, man.
Caesar:You look good, bro.
Caesar:You are looking good.
Caesar:You are special.
Caesar:Did you tell me the other day when we were kind of setting up this recording that you and Cheryl been like living on a bus or something driving around the country?
Hugh Halter:I've done two trips.
Hugh Halter:Yeah.
Hugh Halter:We read it, renovated an old prison bus and we're getting set to go on our third trip down to the Florida's and
Caesar:all the way you're going to go up these Illinois down.
Caesar:Wow man.
Caesar:Listen, the church has changed a lot since we last hugged each other's necks.
Caesar:And so each other in person, I can't even believe it.
Caesar:And I'm glad to hear you're out on the road.
Caesar:How are you finding things like what's your hope right now?
Caesar:What's your outlook?
Caesar:on the church and,
Hugh Halter:well, personally, we're having a blast because I think we learned 25 years ago, how to just live like a missioner in the neighborhood, but you're right.
Hugh Halter:I think, uh, like the reality, March 15th, 2020, 95% of all the churches in America stopped having a church service and lost their mind, except for the little, what I call the Corona virus, cockroaches that had learned to live in the cracks and crevices.
Hugh Halter:Of humanity prior to that.
Hugh Halter:So there are, I see quite a few people doing really well there they're like, they've been missionaries for a long time.
Hugh Halter:They go, no problem.
Hugh Halter:We got this, but the general church at large, the people that are used to having the paid professionals, fire up the band for them on Sunday and load the minivan with the kids, that world is coming to an end.
Hugh Halter:So I think people are, um, are caught in the
Caesar:crosshairs.
Caesar:Yeah, we're, we're seeing the same thing early on.
Caesar:We were saying, Hey, writings on the wall.
Caesar:And those who are making disciples and living in community are going to do fine.
Caesar:And when this thing finally does lift or whatever, guess who everybody's going to want to continue to hang with, but those who are just kind of.
Caesar:Plugging it, or, you know, a finger in the hole and they're just waiting for everything to go back.
Caesar:I said, I don't, I don't think it's gonna, and I don't think you want it to, um, one of the big things we've been saying is what if this, uh, what if this pandemic didn't happen to us, but it happened for us as the church.
Caesar:Like we, we get to, I I've been stoked.
Caesar:I tell people like these are prayers answered after a couple of decades of live in this way and trying to help people sort this out.
Caesar:So yeah.
Caesar:Well, listen, last episode, I talked about some ways that the church could begin to shift towards a more outward focus.
Caesar:And I gave him some very easy sort of handles to do that five little simple steps.
Caesar:If you didn't hear that episode, go back and hear that.
Caesar:But I promised this week that I wanted to talk about specifically how, how leaders either have a small group or someone in a small group or a pastor, or maybe someone who's in charge of small groups could start to shift their small group.
Caesar:Towards a more outward focus and, and be a part of the new predictable patterns of being the church.
Caesar:And so for some churches, they said, well, we don't have that.
Caesar:Um, others, they have that container.
Caesar:They have that sort of tool, that vehicle where people are already outside the building that kind of want to hang out.
Caesar:My experience has been a lot of those people said, well, but my small group wasn't that rock and before the pandemic, but we're trying to keep it together.
Caesar:Maybe it's even a little more important now because we're not seeing each other at the building on Sunday.
Caesar:So that's what I want to talk about with you brother.
Caesar:Cause I know you've, you've given a lot of time and effort and, uh, your heart and ministry to helping people do exactly that take communities and live on mission, be incarnational and, uh, what are, what are some of the things that you.
Caesar:If people have a small group going or a series of small groups, or maybe they're a part of a small group, what are some of the things that are going to be really important for them to know?
Caesar:And maybe start to consider, uh, up in the ante a little bit, you know, put more effort to it.
Caesar:And in a months ahead is connected to their small groups.
Caesar:Yeah.
Hugh Halter:You know, the place I started with people is not to necessarily think about like a new thing to add to your life.
Hugh Halter:That's already a little crazy.
Hugh Halter:So I talk about reconfiguring your life.
Hugh Halter:Like this is an opportunity to live a more natural kingdom life with our friends.
Hugh Halter:Um, and as you said, be the church, you know, church that is not.
Hugh Halter:Outside oriented is really not.
Hugh Halter:The church.
Hugh Halter:Church was always a missions movement.
Hugh Halter:And so, you know, we started training people 25 years ago to live as a missionary here, just like they would anywhere else in the world.
Hugh Halter:And to me, it's not a to do list.
Hugh Halter:It's like a new way to live.
Hugh Halter:So.
Hugh Halter:Yeah, it's a total reboot, but I think people will love it if they get into it.
Caesar:But for, for most Christians, most of our brothers and sisters, they haven't.
Caesar:And so they kind of lean immediately to like, do, to be okay.
Caesar:So tell us the stuff we should start doing baby steps, right.
Caesar:And it's, and that's understandable.
Caesar:As you and I have talked for years about like, unless people are, you know, formed in their identity first, all these new cool steps, people just vote based on convenience, just like they have been doing for Sunday
. Hugh Halter:Cause honestly, that's where, you know, if people are going to count, I want my small group to have a little more zing
. Hugh Halter:I go, now let's talk identity.
. Hugh Halter:Let's talk you as a missionary for awhile.
. Hugh Halter:Let's really make sure we've locked in that.
. Hugh Halter:Missionaries and let's get the word Missional into our vocabulary.
. Hugh Halter:And then the second identity piece is a word we use called incarnational, which is the way that Jesus embodied himself into life.
. Hugh Halter:And so if you can understand that your role in the world is to be like Jesus, to be missionally oriented out there with people, but to live as he did in the neighborhood.
. Hugh Halter:You're you're well, on your way.
. Hugh Halter:That's such
Caesar:a huge piece of it right away.
Caesar:And for those who, maybe that word incarnational is newer.
Caesar:I know whenever I type it into any kind of a document, my spellcheck doesn't know what I'm saying.
Caesar:You know, incarnate is, it really means with flesh on right.
Caesar:From Latin or Greek Carne con you know, it's where we get carne asada, man, our favorite burritos and tacos.
Caesar:Right?
Caesar:So to incarnate, Jesus came and he was God with flesh on.
Caesar:So just for, you know, just for those who might know that, so this idea being, are we going to be Jesus with flesh on or Jesus with a book?
Caesar:And we hide out in a closet and it's, or in a small circle, like a holy huddle.
Hugh Halter:The fleshy side of Jesus is the most important side.
Hugh Halter:Honestly, it's not just that he came to die for sins, but came to teach us how to be us again, how to be human.
Hugh Halter:And right now, if you look at the problem with people outside the church, not having any interest coming in, even if we had a cool in thing, right, they just don't like us.
Hugh Halter:We have terrible street cred right now.
Hugh Halter:And, and the, the fleshiness of Jesus.
Hugh Halter:It was designed so that people would actually go, you know, I love, I love Hugh and Cheryl.
Hugh Halter:I love Tina and Caesar is love being in their space.
Hugh Halter:That's the point of this is that we become different humans.
Caesar:So that they'd know Jesus and be able to receive his salvation at all.
Caesar:But we always want to start with, let's identify our differences.
Caesar:Let's point out their sin and all this stuff they don't even understand or agree with.
Caesar:And then let's spend a long time arguing about something, get them to say a prayer, and then we can start to act like Jesus with them.
Caesar:So.
Caesar:Yeah, totally doesn't work.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:So another big thing is the importance of, of everything flowing out of the gospel, not just in our own hearts, but then the ability for us, we use the word gospel fluency.
Caesar:The ability that when we're incarnating, when we're living life with Jesus, like Jesus with people, when they're hanging out more, because they like us and they kind of get this idea that maybe this kingdom of God thing might be for me, uh, that we actually have some good news to speak.
Caesar:And I'm not talking about, you know, people who listen to the Everyday Disciple Podcast long time.
Caesar:Know what I mean?
Caesar:Like gospel fluency.
Caesar:Isn't like I could quote chapter and verse for every single situation, man.
Caesar:I could quote some Bible, you know, we're talking about, do you, do you not actually know how to good news people in light of the gospel and is your life.
Caesar:Uh, living picture is your marriage is the way you parent a living picture of the gospel.
Hugh Halter:Yeah.
Hugh Halter:So we always go now, Obviously we could proclaim the gospel, even if we sucked at it, we should proclaim it because it's that good.
Hugh Halter:It's a story of what Jesus did, but yeah, way more powerfully as a missionary when your proclamation is just simply describing to people, what they've been experiencing as they've been in your space.
Hugh Halter:So, reteaching the gospel is so important...
Hugh Halter:it's really not just a set of doctrines or beliefs that we're trying to get somebody to pull the lever on.
Hugh Halter:They literally should be going, "Hey, that was like the other night at your house...
Hugh Halter:that was like amazing!
Hugh Halter:Like you guys have been doing that a long time, you know?
Hugh Halter:So those types of questions where people are leaning in, I'm going to the scripture, talks about being ready.
Hugh Halter:When people ask you questions about that's, what we're talking about, a lived gospel and then a proclaimed.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:And it's, it's amazing to me how, and here again, we've said this so many times before on the podcast, um, most people's understanding of the gospel is so tiny.
Caesar:It's something about a prayer.
Caesar:They said at youth group, or one time when they thought they were going to have to, you know, they're getting sick, they got a bad doctor report or whatever, and they, they threw up this hail Mary prayer kind of thing about their afterlife.
Caesar:And they have such a small gospel it's like, does, does really does our faith and does Jesus speak into like my parenting and my job loss and, and that bad, that call from the
Announcer:doctor and, and my, and my atonement
Caesar:issues know that we have such a small gospel and that's a big part of what I think, uh, like people living in community and small groups get to do is we get to go deeper.
Caesar:Like we get to talk about these things with each other, sort of as the practice round.
Caesar:Like, if you can't talk and share your faith and good news, like your best friends, your brothers and sisters, I hold out little hope that you'll actually be that way at the gym or, you know, walking around the neighborhood and you run into another buddy or single mom pushing her kid around, or, you know what I mean?
Caesar:I just don't think it's going to leak out accidentally brilliantly if you don't speak at ever.
Caesar:No, this is
Hugh Halter:the, a little key we have, you know, literally thousands of small group leaders that will ask, you know, why is the small group thing not working.
Hugh Halter:Um, and it's because we've missed the idea of community.
Hugh Halter:So when you just brought that word up, most Christians think community is just Christian friends.
Hugh Halter:A biblical community is actually this really unique network of friends from all degrees of faith and non-faith that are doing life together.
Hugh Halter:And then the non-faithy ones began to pick up the faith of the ones that have it.
Hugh Halter:Um, and so, you know, not only do we got to reframe the gospel, we've got to re-talk or kind of reframe.
Hugh Halter:What biblical community is like, if you don't have the friends that Jesus would have had, you're not really moving towards real
Caesar:community.
Caesar:Yeah, I can remember.
Caesar:And I've shared this before.
Caesar:I can remember Hugh when I was on staff at the big mega church and putting in gazillion hours at the building, you know, mostly holed up in an office, um, and coming home and I had like zero.
Caesar:I remember one day it just hit me.
Caesar:I had zero, not yet believing.
Caesar:Like none, no relationships like I'm thinking.
Caesar:Oh yeah.
Caesar:But I did see that one buddy on my space from high school.
Caesar:I think he doesn't believe in, you know what I mean?
Caesar:It was like, that was it.
Caesar:That was like the best I could conjure.
Caesar:And there was no time to build those relationships.
Caesar:And then as I kind of , Got it got done, licking my own wounds.
Caesar:And I pulled back the lens.
Caesar:I realized none of our pastors, our elders are hanging out with anybody that like Jesus would have hung out with.
Caesar:And if, if we're not as leaders, then why would anybody else in the church?
Caesar:And then how, what are they going to see is the model.
Caesar:What's the model for being a friend of sinners, a couple episodes back.
Caesar:I talked about that living as a friend of.
Caesar:That's what Jesus was called as well as he was called a drunk and a glutton because he hung out and ate and drank with people.
Caesar:And they were of questionable character.
Caesar:At least to the, to the religious leaders.
Hugh Halter:We need to hear that you had a season in your life where you didn't have, because I only know you and Tina.
Hugh Halter:You know, 15 years.
Hugh Halter:And I've been in your house, several of your houses, full, full of people, many of who did not know, Jesus just had an incredible time.
Hugh Halter:You've been at the halter, the ranch and other places.
Hugh Halter:And we've seen our networker friends.
Hugh Halter:Yeah.
Hugh Halter:So I guess it can happen even for those that go look right now.
Hugh Halter:I don't have any non Christian friends now, maybe two years from now.
Hugh Halter:We can come over to your house and there'll be 60 people jammed in for a ball game and hanging
Caesar:out or 10, you know, let's like, right.
Caesar:You know, we talk about people,
Hugh Halter:well, I'm an introvert now I'd be happy with six, but let's just do more than one.
Hugh Halter:Why don't you
Caesar:just say you're an introvert now I'm an introvert, bro.
Caesar:Yeah, maybe you always were, but you definitely, uh, see here's the thing though, right?
Caesar:And you know this.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:Now, now you just sucked me in
Hugh Halter:everybody.
Hugh Halter:When I say introverted, they go me too.
Hugh Halter:That means we hate people or we suck at people
Caesar:has nothing to do with it.
Caesar:Now it has to do with how you recharge, right?
Caesar:And we have whole episodes and podcasts and all this stuff about that.
Caesar:There's books written on, sorry, you can't hide behind the introvert thing anymore.
Caesar:Hugh.
Caesar:Halters a perfect example of that.
Caesar:I do believe you're an introvert actually knowing you really well, how you recharge.
Caesar:Like you get to a point in your life and enough, and you go hide out or you go walk
Hugh Halter:and wait for the last person to finally leave.
Hugh Halter:But, you're ready to go again next weekend or
Caesar:because
Caesar:it's not about loving people or not.
Caesar:See, I think people what they hide behind and they say, oh, I'm an introvert.
Caesar:That's why I don't wanna be around people is actually, no, I love me more than I love others.
Caesar:And I, the way I get to control people's opinion of myself is, um, I just don't hang out with them.
Caesar:Perfect.
Caesar:See, I never have to, I never have to wonder what they're thinking or if they, you know, get into an argument or feel badly about challenging them or anything, because I don't, I just don't.
Caesar:I just avoid it all now.
Caesar:That's not introversion.
Caesar:That's selfishness.
Caesar:I remember saying that once at a conference to somebody and I got taken aside later by this like really nice older woman, I can't believe you said she was selfish.
Caesar:And I said, she's completely self-aware.
Caesar:And then that lady came up to me a little later going no one's ever helped me
Caesar:understand that you're a hundred percent right.
Caesar:I just fear everybody and love myself so much.
Caesar:I just live in a closet and I'm like, yeah, but you don't have to SIS.
Caesar:That's why Jesus died.
Caesar:We're free.
Caesar:We're free, you know?
Caesar:So, you know, we talk about life and community and starting to have, you know, those types of relationships with people.
Caesar:What are some of the things you think are like still really cool to hang out with people?
Caesar:And it's not just on zoom.
Hugh Halter:Yeah, it's a, and by the way, , the number of people fastest growing movement, Christian movements ever happened in the history of the world is happening right now in the underground church of China and the underground church in the middle east.
Hugh Halter:And most of those groups are less than 10.
Hugh Halter:Um, led them unpaid.
Hugh Halter:Uh, somebody said that they think that about 60% of the leaders in that underground Chinese church are teenage girls.
Hugh Halter:I mean, so you know, this, this can be done by anybody anywhere, whatever number, but what we find is that when you start moving as a, as a little missionary community for four friends, four couples, whatever.
Hugh Halter:Um, you do have to set some rhythms that you do what we call living out.
Hugh Halter:It's like the things that you live out to the culture.
Hugh Halter:And we, you know, in our life, we, we had to share a calendar.
Hugh Halter:We, we made a calendar every month with our friends.
Hugh Halter:We said, let's do do these two nights and let's do that on those Wednesdays.
Hugh Halter:And let's do a little Jesus' time on every other Thursday night.
Hugh Halter:So we had to set some rhythms that we live in.
Hugh Halter:And then we, uh, we had to actually be ready as they began to invite themselves in.
Hugh Halter:And so, um, you know, those are what we call missionary principles that we kind of teach people living out and then inviting in just kind of a natural inhale exhale of what we do to them.
Hugh Halter:And then what it feels like as they move towards us.
Caesar:What are some of the things you're still feeling?
Caesar:Our net and fruit and really most people probably would be able
Hugh Halter:to do.
Hugh Halter:Yeah.
Hugh Halter:Center of the cinnamon roll, as we say is just simply having a meal with friends the table.
Hugh Halter:Um, right now people, these are comfortable.
Hugh Halter:You know, having a meal with a couple friends or a couple of couples.
Hugh Halter:Um, and that was a, a rhythm Cheryl and I did, we tried to commit three to five meals a week that we would eat with other people outside the church, outside the faith.
Hugh Halter:Um, and you know, and our son had really severe, you know, uh, epilepsy.
Hugh Halter:So he was having seizures all over the place.
Hugh Halter:And, you know, there's a lot of reasons why we maybe shouldn't have felt comfortable having people in the house, but we went, no matter how bad he's doing, he can be on the couch, just, you know, unconscious after a grand mal seizure, we can still have people across the room at the table together.
Hugh Halter:So the table became the primary missionary skill.
Hugh Halter:Yeah, we taught people, honestly.
Caesar:And I, and I know too, just cause I hung out at your house enough with you and Cheryl that the three to five touch points or meals or whatever a week that you kind of decided, Hey, we're going to do first off.
Caesar:That's out of 21.
Caesar:So anybody going like holy cow.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:It's not that much, right?
Caesar:It's a matter of love and intentionality.
Caesar:Secondly, it wasn't that you had three to five dinners a night, like a huge dinner party.
Caesar:I remember times when I'd even be staying at the house and you were like, dude, I'm out of here super crazy early Im meeting a dude for some coffee.
Caesar:And it's like, w when, like right after my five 30 sweaty yoga thing, and then I'm going to have coffee for an hour and I'll see you at eight, you don't even get up until then.
Caesar:I'm like, yeah, usually, you know, so especially when you're living in Colorado and there was no oxygen to breathe, but you, it wasn't all.
Caesar:And I, cause I don't want people to freak out like, oh, that's it.
Caesar:See, there's no way I can do three to five dinners a night.
Caesar:We're not talking about that.
Caesar:We're talking about a loving intentionality.
Caesar:Between couples to say, Hey, are we praying about this?
Caesar:Are we even thinking about this?
Caesar:How about this?
Caesar:Are we even seeing the folks in our own small group beyond the prescribed time?
Caesar:Like, do we see them as family and love them enough and want to be with them?
Caesar:Let's start loving each other.
Caesar:Well, outside of the, you know, the prescribed time, the event, uh, you know, coordinated time,
Hugh Halter:When I looked at our life for that, you know, 25 years we live like.
Hugh Halter:Um, and even now, um, we had about five nights a week just to ourselves as a family.
Hugh Halter:Um, but a couple of nights a week.
Hugh Halter:Yeah, on a weekend football game or, you know, 30 people jammed in the living room watching the ball game and then maybe usually one night a week, we have some people over for dinner.
Hugh Halter:And then I would, as you said, share some meals with some guys, maybe the diner on Monday morning or whatever it is.
Hugh Halter:So my wife would be doing the same thing with some ladies.
Hugh Halter:So you can get some pretty incredible momentum.
Hugh Halter:If you are sharing meals.
Hugh Halter:Know, if you just have 10 people in your small group and everybody was giving up one meal a week, you'd be given up 560 meals a year.
Hugh Halter:So it's, there's some great momentum for just a little bit of enjoyment.
Caesar:I love that right there.
Caesar:Boy, did you catch that number if you had 10 people giving up a meal, an extra wheel, a meal a week with some not yet.
Caesar:Believing friends.
Caesar:Sojourners people on a journey, kind of checking out, you checking out Jesus, that's over 500 meals of intentionality.
Caesar:Now I have to snap the line back to now, if you don't know the gospel and those times are just.
Caesar:Parties or whatever forever.
Caesar:No nothing will happen.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:That's part of being an apprentice like Jesus was hanging out and doing meals and drink and wine with people.
Caesar:I know some people don't want to hear that, but it's sorry, go read, go read the book a little bit deeper.
Caesar:Even made hundreds of gallons, right?
Caesar:First miracle.
Caesar:But he was hanging out and doing normal life, but it wasn't.
Caesar:That was it.
Caesar:He was constantly going, Hey, you know, you've heard.
Caesar:But what about this?
Caesar:Or here's a little parable for you, you know, or let me spit a dirt and let me spin that around a little bit and stick that in your eyes.
Caesar:And let me tell you what's up.
Caesar:You know what I mean?
Caesar:It was like for those who have ears, let them hear.
Caesar:He was constantly helping people understand you think dad, you think God is like this know God's like this.
Caesar:You think the kingdom is like swords and fighting and being ticked off at everybody that doesn't agree with you.
Caesar:Now, the kingdom is like these kids, right?
Caesar:They're like open and they don't, they're not sure.
Caesar:And they're happy and they're willing to try stuff and we've got to learn how to be and speak those things because that's what pumps up all the.
Caesar:Incarnational, intentional, simple things like a meal here, there a coffee with somebody watching a football game.
Caesar:But when, when you're out back taking the trash out and someone's helping you get into a 15 minute, pretty deep conversation that you have to follow up on later, but it was some good news in there for people that's where, see how it all starts to tie together.
Caesar:I don't want people to hear like, well, if I just did more meals.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:But so that.
Caesar:You can be Jesus in their life and speak the good news of the kingdom and the father.
Caesar:The
Hugh Halter:fact that the second thing we usually try to, you know, everybody wants metrics, like, what are we shooting for?
Hugh Halter:What's winning.
Hugh Halter:What's doing good at this thing.
Hugh Halter:And I tell people meals and in conversation.
Hugh Halter:Uh, just to add two conversations at the coffee shop with people we've just been loving on and they, they both call me and just said, Hey, I've got some stuff to run by you.
Hugh Halter:I said, meet me up at the shop.
Hugh Halter:You know?
Hugh Halter:So, uh, had a couple cups of coffee after nine cups this morning, but it's, it's the, it's the meals that lead to the conversations.
Hugh Halter:And we talked about Jesus both times today.
Hugh Halter:So, um, it's very normal.
Hugh Halter:It's actually natural.
Hugh Halter:They actually start asking you about things related to God and faith and.
Hugh Halter:Their life.
Hugh Halter:Um, it's almost, it just comes to you.
Caesar:They totally do.
Caesar:And part of that's because they see the confidence and joy that you're living with and the humility to say.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:But you know what, let me tell you a time when it sucked for me, you know, Tina, two days ago, she's she's, I don't even know this, but she's picked up just a little part-time job at a local bakery just to kind of get out of the house and it.
Caesar:Good healthcare for us and everything.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:So, but, um, she's been telling me, there's this one guy he's about 35, maybe 40, got some kids.
Caesar:Um, uh, I, I'm not sure if he's married or they, he just lives with his is, uh, you know, the mama there.
Caesar:I'm not sure, but he keeps kinda like asking Tina questions about like her parenting and the kids, and she's telling them about team K, but she's also because of who we are and just how we roll.
Caesar:Jesus and the kingdom of God and the freedom we get to live with.
Caesar:It's just, it kind of slips in there.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:And so two days ago, and she's been telling me about the conversations he's been, he always brings him up.
Caesar:He, he waited around.
Caesar:She says, I noticed when I was kind of getting done and closing up my area and getting ready to head out, he had been kind of humming and hawing around the corner.
Caesar:And when I went out to leave and get in the car, he comes running and we had about a 40 minute phone call or a conversation rather where he just liked.
Caesar:Had all these questions and wanted to know how, you know, how well, how do you do that?
Caesar:And like, well, but I don't understand how, I don't know how to talk about Jesus with my kids.
Caesar:And I don't know any of that, you know?
Caesar:And like, oh, the story I got, things sounds amazing.
Caesar:What you know?
Caesar:And so, so now him and his, his baby mama are coming over for dinner.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:So we haven't even had a meal yet.
Caesar:And I'm telling you where she works, man.
Caesar:It's not like, oh, there's all this time in the world, you know, to talk about stuff.
Caesar:It's very, corporate-y kind of closed down where he's got their head down.
Caesar:They keep you way too busy, you know?
Caesar:That's that's the thing.
Caesar:I love hearing that.
Caesar:And people don't believe it.
Caesar:People like, well, no, one's going to want to talk to you about that.
Caesar:It's like, Nope.
Caesar:We, we, I feel like we almost never have to bring it up.
Caesar:People are always asking us stuff.
Caesar:It's weird, you know, but I know we must've otherwise, how would they even know we had faith or we had, you know, relationship with Jesus.
Caesar:And so
Hugh Halter:that's great.
Hugh Halter:Well, I don't think I've ever actually had to go ask people anything, but I do intentionally ask them out for a meal.
Hugh Halter:see how they are doing,Yeah.
Hugh Halter:And then as they ask things about God will say, Hey, let's, let's meet up again.
Hugh Halter:So there was some intentionality to the invite invite.
Hugh Halter:It's not like we're coming from left field on them.
Hugh Halter:They're there out to come
Caesar:at himself.
Caesar:Yeah, for sure.
Caesar:Um, well let, let's, let's talk a little bit about, um, a tool.
Caesar:This is going to sound like a big inherent plug, but so what, there's a tool, um, that w I know in my life and ministry, we've used a ton that you and Matt Smay created.
Caesar:Tangible kingdom primer.
Caesar:And it was a, it was a tool like a resource for doing together in community to learn some of what we're talking about here.
Caesar:Uh, and, uh, over eight weeks.
Caesar:And, uh, after we met, we actually don't know if you remember, but we met because we were speaking at a conference or something, but I said, I want to have a meal with you.
Caesar:Cause I want to talk about this tangible kingdom primer.
Caesar:I'm pretty blown away with how easy it is to follow and help people move from sort of that.
Caesar:Uh, you know, maybe self-focused, you know, like it's about us type a small group experience, um, to like a more outward focused, more incarnational focus.
Caesar:And I said, but there would be a few things I might want to change in it, which is arrogant as all get out, especially the guy who wrote it.
Caesar:Um, but you guys were humble and you said, well, what are some of the things.
Caesar:You know, you would like to tweak in it, you know?
Caesar:Cause I wanted to print up a whole bunch of copies for, for us at Soma and change just a couple of things.
Caesar:And we talked about 'em you're like, how about you just edit it?
Caesar:And then if we dig it, we'll print that way from now on.
Caesar:And we did.
Caesar:And that's how we, that's how we built our relationship and created the gospel primer.
Caesar:And I got to help edit the justice primer with Brandon.
Caesar:And so I want to talk a little bit about the tangible kingdom primer because there is nothing like, well, these, all three of these Primers
Caesar:. They're just out of man.
Caesar:They're just so good.
Caesar:But I want to unashamedly talk about this tool because I don't know.
Caesar:We were just, before we got on the call here talking about how.
Caesar:I don't know, hundreds of thousands maybe, or you know, of these primers are out there and people are using because it's been successful and they go to another church and they're like, we're taking people through the TK primer or, you know, or we're going to go through whatever gospel primary justice primer.
Caesar:So let's talk a little bit about why you still, you call me up a few weeks ago.
Caesar:Like, man, this tangible kingdom, primary is still my favorite thing.
Caesar:I said.
Caesar:I agree, man.
Caesar:Why do you think so why do you think this is still a really, maybe more so important tool right now?
Hugh Halter:Well, you know, back in the day I felt like we were probably 10, 15 years ahead of where the church was going to go.
Hugh Halter:And it's probably true, but now it's, it's exactly what we wrote that for, you know, and so crazy unique time.
Hugh Halter:Um, and people just need a little bit of training and then hopefully they can begin to live in intuitive life around the kingdom.
Hugh Halter:But, um, yeah, so we, we wrote this, it was really a training for our own church.
Hugh Halter:Um, we had everybody that was coming into our own church to do this.
Hugh Halter:It was our intro to.
Hugh Halter:Or what we call missionary training.
Hugh Halter:And so a lot of stuff you and I talked about, we, we basically set it up as a monastic journey.
Hugh Halter:We feel like it's not, it's not about evenagilsm and it's really about your own spiritual formation.
Hugh Halter:So we set up like a monastic community would disciple their own apprentices.
Hugh Halter:And so we set it up on a seven day, a week cycle every week has the same sort of, uh, rhythms to it.
Hugh Halter:You'll get used to it.
Hugh Halter:As you said, Um, and then we go through those eight missionary aspects that you and I kind of just talked about, you know, uh, what is that?
Hugh Halter:Still?
Hugh Halter:The stuff,
Caesar:man,
Hugh Halter:to be incarnational.
Hugh Halter:What truly is the gospel?
Hugh Halter:What is biblical community.
Hugh Halter:Then we talked about the, the missionary principles of living out and inviting in, and then the seventh and eighth week, or about literally being an apprentice of Jesus.
Hugh Halter:And then the eighth is called the intuitive life.
Hugh Halter:So, um, you know, we
Caesar:don't want, it's really just for people.
Caesar:It's like how to, how to start paying attention, what the spirits up to ahead of us.
Caesar:Yeah.
Hugh Halter:Uh, hopefully it gets your church, everybody, uh, out there not having to need a program anymore.
Hugh Halter:It's almost a de-program, your church and just get it into the lives of people.
Hugh Halter:This is the way a Jesus follower.
Hugh Halter:Gets to live in all times in any place, be it a pandemic or post pandemic.
Hugh Halter:Um, this there's no reason to go back.
Hugh Halter:This is how God made us to live.
Hugh Halter:And so let's get after it.
Hugh Halter:So yeah, we, uh, we wrote it.
Hugh Halter:We, we tried to make.
Hugh Halter:Um, cause I, I hate reading.
Hugh Halter:So we made it visual, lots of cool
Caesar:pictures.
Caesar:It's like a piece of art it's for people who have not seen the
Hugh Halter:primary.
Hugh Halter:Right.
Hugh Halter:And then even the book that it went with.
Hugh Halter:But if anybody wants to know with the TK, it meant tangible kingdom is trying to make the, the kingdom of God tangible to our own family and then those around us.
Hugh Halter:And so it's a primer into the life of the kingdom.
Caesar:Yeah, let me just throw for folks just a little bit more sort of a description on what's going on.
Caesar:So it's an eight week study, you know, uh, in community and it follows a seven day, like you said, kind of a cycle, but I want people to know that everybody in the community would be doing, you know, going through this tangible kingdom primer.
Caesar:It's kind of like a journal really is what it is.
Caesar:And, uh, and you learn some stuff in your journal a little bit and you have an actual date there's um, It's a little bit, each day people can say, oh man, we have to get together every day.
Caesar:No, no, no, no.
Caesar:You're in your own time doing maybe 15, 20 minutes, you know?
Caesar:And so like day one is an exploration day.
Caesar:So you land a topic like the first week, day one you start talking about, well, what is Missional?
Caesar:Right?
Caesar:And then day two, Hey, here's some scripture and some meditation connected to that.
Caesar:And then there's a little, few questions to journal.
Caesar:Day three is a change.
Caesar:Sort of day always every week, like whatever the topic is, it's like, okay, this is where we start to get serious.
Caesar:You know, what does this idea mean for my life?
Caesar:Like if I embrace this, how would I start to change day fours and action day?
Caesar:So, you know, you got to start doing some of this stuff, really trying it on, seeing if it fits, learning what you suck at, what you're good at.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:And then you get together after that and you do a community day and you talk about how that.
Caesar:Like, what did you experience?
Caesar:You blew that off.
Caesar:You didn't do the actions.
Caesar:So let's talk about that, you know?
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:And then day six is calibration where you go, okay.
Caesar:Um, this is new.
Caesar:This is probably throwing you for a little bit of a loop.
Caesar:Again, here's a reminder of what, how Jesus lived.
Caesar:Here's some other examples in community they're going to help you kind of recalibrate your, you know, your compass a little bit.
Caesar:And then that last day, the seventh day of the week, we call it recreate and it's this idea of rest.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:In, in Jesus' completed work and out of that, then we, we kind of can create beauty and work and move to the next week so that we want to remind people, Hey, God loves us the same.
Caesar:Even if we don't do these things, but we get to right.
Caesar:And so it follows that cycle 15, 20 minutes a day, little bit more on action day.
Caesar:And then you get a community day where you have a meal together or whatever.
Caesar:Now, some people you might need to do that community.
Caesar:on zoom right now, or you might need to do it partially like, well, some people are coming together, but we still got a couple of folks that are higher risk.
Caesar:Well, they could zoom in for that discussion on community day if they need to.
Caesar:Right.
Hugh Halter:Yep.
Hugh Halter:And you know, the butter on the beans on this thing is that day four and five thing, you know, the difference between a missionary community and a small group is just simply day four and five.
Hugh Halter:Action.
Hugh Halter:And then there's reflection with those that are trying it.
Hugh Halter:So that's the accountability, that's where you get to have some fun where you get a little misery, like, as you say, Hey, I didn't want my street cause I'm afraid.
Hugh Halter:Well, okay.
Hugh Halter:So let's, let's, let's pray over Sarah.
Hugh Halter:She's afraid, you know, so you actually get into some real life issues, you know, without shame, but with some actual accountability.
Hugh Halter:Uh,
Caesar:and you know, I almost want to underline that because that is what makes this different than almost every other tool out there, or Bible study or small group curriculum or something is day four and five.
Caesar:There's an action day where you have to actually go do something.
Caesar:And then there's a community day where you process.
Caesar:Together and then pray forward, like, okay, now, now what's that doing to our hearts and how do we move outward?
Caesar:And I wanna let people know to the action days.
Caesar:They're not like crazy, like, okay, action, day, go start an orphanage.
Caesar:Or like, you know, open up a, a used clothing store and start giving it out to like, you know, poor people.
Caesar:It's like, no, it's like, I think the first week is like, go outside, look across the street.
Caesar:There's humans that are image bearers in those houses.
Caesar:Do you know their names?
Caesar:What do you think about them?
Caesar:Go back in your house, pray for them, you know, and if you don't know their names, pray that you'll get to it's really like, that's your action, you know?
Caesar:They're not, uh, they're not heavy duty, heavy duty.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:Well, man, it is.
Caesar:It's always good to talk to you, brother.
Caesar:I think, I feel like we could, we could talk about anything for a really long time.
Caesar:You got
Hugh Halter:you, you got the primers digital now,
Caesar:right?
Caesar:That's right, too.
Caesar:Thanks for bringing that up.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:A lot of people were like, Hey, I love this.
Caesar:It's like a piece of artwork.
Caesar:It'd be really cool to be able to open up what I wrote, you know?
Caesar:IPad or my phone.
Caesar:And then we have people that are like overseas and they're like, Hey, uh, the primer is, you know, like 17 bucks or whatever us, but like, it costs me another 17 to ship it to Australia or whatever.
Caesar:So we have this.
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:We, we, we, man, we took months and months bro.
Caesar:And we made it just as beautiful and it looks like it's flipping the pages and you get to journal in it and it's completely digital.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:And yeah, so people can get that to,
Hugh Halter:you're not in, you know, Madagascar, I'd say get the actual book.
Hugh Halter:And also be open to the fact that there's a lot of people that have tapped out at church a long time ago, but they still have some residual faith.
Hugh Halter:Ex- Catholics Ex-Protestants since, um, they will church friends.
Hugh Halter:And if you give them the book, they will love it.
Hugh Halter:So I would say, if you can do the actual book invite, even non-believers into it, they, they will enjoy it.
Hugh Halter:But the piece is very helpful and inviting people.
Hugh Halter:And obviously if you can't, then you have the digital.
Caesar:Uh, you just popped the top off of something.
Caesar:That's like, could I really have a, not yet believing friend going through this with us and you can, like, we've heard about it a ton because the language you guys were very, very careful to write this in such a way that it's not like all this heavy-duty theological church-anity language from the pulpit yanked.
Caesar:Down and stuck into a, you know, a notebook it's so practical.
Caesar:Like, oh, that's what that means.
Caesar:That's what that scripture does.
Caesar:Oh, that changes my heart.
Caesar:And I've heard this so many times from the, from this, from the tangible kingdom primer and the other primaries, like people going, Hey, you know, I got a couple of neighbors and they were like, we just, anything you do we want in on and we're doing it.
Caesar:And they're like, holy cow is this who God is.
Caesar:And this is what this life as a Christian.
Caesar:It's like, can we actually live this way?
Caesar:Cause I'd never seen it
Hugh Halter:the action days.
Hugh Halter:Just make sure that, you know, when you're using it, that you're honest about it.
Hugh Halter:The best way to, to invite other people.
Hugh Halter:Just go, Hey, I, you guys know we've been going to church.
Hugh Halter:We're just kinda done with church.
Hugh Halter:But we want to start a new journey of just following Jesus, just straight up without all the religious stuff.
Hugh Halter:Um, do you have any interest in joining us?
Hugh Halter:It'll just be kind of weird to get a little inside, look on, on what Christians struggle with.
Hugh Halter:And, but we're just going to try to do the life of Jesus.
Hugh Halter:That's the way the invite should go to people.
Hugh Halter:That way it doesn't look like you're trying to trick them or bait and switch them into
Caesar:a group or something, or be the expert or any of that.
Caesar:Just be humble.
Caesar:Be cool, right?
Caesar:Yeah.
Caesar:I have some food pop, open, a beverage that people enjoy.
Caesar:There you go.
Caesar:Hey, Hugh.
Caesar:It is so good to be with you, man.
Caesar:I miss you.
Caesar:I wish we lived closer together.
Caesar:I think at one of these days, God's going to move us to the same city where we can really have some fun doing this and, and, uh, put our, our, uh, our.
Caesar:Cards on the same table.
Caesar:I was watching a documentary the other day, um, kind of a comedy documentary.
Caesar:I won't even name it cause, cause it would probably shame me.
Caesar:People knew I watched it, but it was, it was a comedian and a couple of his buddies that were like knuckleheads hanging out in the woods.
Caesar:And it's so reminded me of, of some of the stuff that you and I shot a couple of years ago.
Caesar:People don't even know I'm talking about, but you know, road to redemption stuff, I'm going to, I'm going to send you a link to it, but because it was you and I.
Caesar:Except it was way more based than that.
Caesar:Unfortunately, you know, way more to botch.
Caesar:So, Hey, I'm going to let you go, man.
Caesar:Thank you so much for coming on and talk to me about this and I hope people won't be fearful of it.
Caesar:And I hope that if they're saying, well, I want everything you talked about on the front end.
Caesar:Consider using this tool, the tangible kingdom primer, because there again, it's, it's proven God has blessed it.
Caesar:When you see something like your average book sells like 3000 copies or 1500 or something like that.
Caesar:When you see something getting into the hundreds of thousands of people have used it, God's got his hand on it.
Caesar:I promise you like, you know, it's it's real.
Caesar:So please check it out.
Caesar:I'll have links, um, in the, in the show notes, I mean, it's pretty simple.
Caesar:You can go to Missio publishing.com and you're going to find it right there.
Caesar:M I S S I O.
Caesar:Publishing, but I'll put links in the show notes to all that as well.
Caesar:And um, so I'm gonna let you go.
Caesar:I'm gonna let you go my brother.
Caesar:See ya.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:Thanks for being on, man.
Caesar:I love you.
Caesar:Bye-bye all right.
Caesar:That was as always a lot of fun and a lot of shifting of gears.
Caesar:And man, I love Hugh.
Caesar:I love being with him.
Caesar:I love his heart and that's the thing.
Caesar:You gotta know that this is a guy who is a practitioner.
Caesar:His life, him and Cheryl and the fit and the kids.
Caesar:And they all live this life.
Caesar:It really flows out of their heart of love for other people.
Caesar:They really love Jesus and they love people.
Caesar:So I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did.
Caesar:I can't wait to have him back on again.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:So as always though, I want to leave you with the big three takeaways from today's talk.
Caesar:So if nothing else, you don't miss these, there could be a lot, I mean, go back maybe and relisten to this whole episode that he was full of good news there and wisdom.
Caesar:Um, but you can get today's big three as a printable PDF, uh, for, you know, for downloadable and all that's free.
Caesar:Just go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:So here's the big three for this week.
Caesar:Don't miss this at least.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:First, the fastest growing movement in church history is happening right now through multiplying of small groups.
Caesar:That means we can do this too.
Caesar:Right?
Caesar:God has given us a great opportunity to reboot our family and church rhythms here in the west for his glory as well.
Caesar:So your own small group gives you a perfect framework for.
Caesar:Easy, natural growth and multiplication, regardless of the age and stage of life or financial resources or government restrictions you're experiencing.
Caesar:So if you don't have a small group yet, get started today and learn to walk in the ways that Jesus walked with and the type of people he hung out with.
Caesar:Maybe it'll change your life and your faith forever.
Caesar:Second.
Caesar:God's love for you and your church and your community.
Caesar:Doesn't stop.
Caesar:Right.
Caesar:God loves us, but he loves a lot more people that are still out there.
Caesar:He has brought you together as his family, so that more and more of his lost children will find freedom and Christ and live life to the full today.
Caesar:And with you, with his family, plus your own spiritual formation and maturity will never happen in a holy huddle.
Caesar:That's primarily inward focused.
Caesar:If you want to get to know the heart of God and his son, Jesus better.
Caesar:Really live like him, know, him live like him and dive deeper into living the life.
Caesar:He lived with others.
Caesar:And third, don't be content with a mundane boring sort of group focused existence.
Caesar:That's just based on convenience.
Caesar:You know, what night of the week we get together, if it fits my schedule, I'll make it right.
Caesar:You really can start to shift your small group or small groups to have a more outward Missional focus.
Caesar:That includes not yet believers and new People of Peace, you really can.
Caesar:Start getting equipped.
Caesar:So you can do this right.
Caesar:And, and start with those in your group that are interested and learn.
Caesar:And they want to grow, which may not be everyone that's okay.
Caesar:But you can start going through the tangible kingdom primer together with those that are open to change and have a love for the, not yet believers in your life.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:So I'll put a link to the tangible.
Caesar:Primer along with a special discount code in the show notes.
Caesar:How about that?
Caesar:Missio publishing the publisher of the tangible kingdom primer gave us a little special love there.
Caesar:So we'll pass that on and, uh, please check out this amazing resource and start transforming your small groups today.
Caesar:It really will to it's proven and I know you're going to love it.
Caesar:I really know you will.
Caesar:Okay.
Caesar:And before I go to, I want to just one last reminder that I have one spot open for coaching, a team of couples.
Caesar:From the same church or organization that can be in a cohort together and you'll gain the insight framework tools and all the help you're going to need to establish new outward, focused discipleship rhythms in your life, in your small groups, in your church.
Caesar:All right.
Caesar:To check that out and jump on it because we're just getting started soon and there's only one slot left.
Caesar:Go ahead and go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:All right, there you go.
Caesar:Well, Hey, time's kind of up.
Caesar:I want to thank Hugh again for being on the show today.
Caesar:I love you brother, and I hope to have you on again real soon.
Caesar:The rest of y'all I'll talk to you next week, about how the gospel can speak into our parenting during this election season and beyond.
Caesar:All right, that's going to be interesting.
Caesar:I'll talk to you soon.
Announcer:Thanks for joining us today.
Announcer:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit Everyday Disciple dot com.
