Workshops and retreats are big investments of your time and money. They can also be one of the most rewarding activities you can do as a photographer. On this episode of Cowgirls with Cameras, the photographers dig into the inner workings of workshops and retreats and how you can get the most out of your experience.

It's time to laugh, learn and take your photography to the

next level with your favorite Cowgirls with Cameras, Cara,

Kim, and Phyllis.

Hey everybody, welcome to Cowgirls with

Cameras. I'm Kim with Kim Beer photography.

I'm Cara with Fast Horse photography.

And I'm Phyllis with Phyllis Burchette

photo.

And welcome to another great episode of our fun

and definitely interesting podcast that we have created

today's topic after we have a little discussion and tell you

what we've been up to, which is very exciting stuff for all of

us. We're going to be talking about workshops, which is one of

our favorite topics to discuss, because to be honest with you,

it's something that all three of us share as a passion. And it's

one of the big catalysts behind why we even started this

endeavor in the first place. And it's something that we're

concentrating a lot on. So we're going to be talking today about

how as a photographer, you can get the most out of your

workshop experience because workshops are expensive, and

they definitely will push you out of your comfort zone. And so

we're gonna give you some tips on how to make that experience

even more beneficial. But first, let's get caught up on what's

been going on in all three of our crazy lives. So I have been

sick 22 has been me not feeling well. So coughing COVID I'm

definitely done with being sick.

You are due to be done with all of this. You

really are.

We have missed you

I am I am I am definitely do. I am asking the

universe in my body. I've missed you guys, too. I've missed our

time together because there was a whole week I couldn't even

talk and can you imagine me not being able to talk for those

that know? Me in person, you know how it is struggle? That

must have been for me?

No, you had laryngitis, so called and we

were chatting and you were like a whisper and you thought we

were going to be able to record for The Business Animal podcast.

And I just couldn't help but laugh at you because that was

not happening. There was no way.

I was I was ready to squeak my way through it.

That's That's my commitment to podcasting. I was definitely.

and when I could finally hear you, you

sounded like it was the most painful voice I've ever heard.

So I was like, no one wants to hear that. No, I don't even want

to hear it. I'm hanging up.

So So I did, I had like five or six speaking

engagements that week that I had to do. And I kept the first one

which was prior to the podcast recording. And when I still was

delusional enough to think I was going to be able to squeak my

way through that. And it was a zoom session, thankfully, but it

was only an hour. But the poor people that had to listen to me,

every single one of them was like, you don't have to talk.

You don't have to talk. We can do this, we can do this. And I'm

like, Okay, now I see the valid reason why everybody tells me I

just need to cancel stuff. So I did something I have never done

in my entire career. And that is cancel and reschedule speaking

engagements. And you know what, I learned a valuable lesson that

people will wait.

and the world will go on and it'll be just

fine.

it'll be just fine. And I can take time for

me. Yeah, and I can take time for me. So that was a big lesson

for me. So that's a lot of what I've been up to, other than I

know the three of us have shared time with a fellow colleague

named Natalie McFarland, who is a videographer. But we did it in

very separate ways. So the way I worked with Natalie was I hired

her to help with a client of mine to film at her location in

Colorado. That's Melisa with a certification program. She's

launching a new program and needed videos done. And when she

asked, I recommended Natalie and I flew out to help with the

process of getting things set up out there, which was great. And

we had a couple of little snafoos in our filming. And I

have to say Natalie handled it beautifully. I truly enjoyed my

time with her and I loved watching her work and you guys

got to do something different. So what was your Natalie

McFarland experience?

Okay, so this is funny because we ended up

working with Natalie Phyllis and I within like a week of you

working with her, and that was totally random and unplanned. So

that was pretty funny. So Phyllis, and I decided that one

of our goals for 2022 was to learn video and to really

incorporate that more into the work that we do as photographers

so I had the opportunity to reach out to Natalie as in a

mentorship opportunity, and Phyllis and I decided to work

together on that and we had a good time. Didn't we Phyllis it

was like two super intense days but it was awesome. It was a

really full of a lot of intensive brain work.

But yes, Natalie was a joy to work with.

She's very very knowledgeable and I just really enjoyed her

personally and professionally. I really enjoyed the three of us

had a great time together. Yes

We really did. So we I set up a little

mock shoot here in Florida at one of my friend's little farms

and brought in I brought in another gal that has modeled for

Phyllis and I before who owns a little shop downtown here in St.

Augustine in the closet and she came over just super cute

dressed and we got to video her with one of Ali's mare and foal

sets and we just had a really good time and Natalie really? I

don't know. I feel like I learned a ton in two days.

Right? I mean, do you feel like that?

Oh gosh, yeah, even though I had a malfunction

with my laptop and she graciously let me borrow hers so

that I was able to work but it was a little bit more of a

learning curve when I got home and then had to readjust

everything on my my own PC and laptop but thankfully we all

used PC. So that was nice. I'm really excited about getting to

shoot more video and to edit more video I just haven't really

had a lot of time since I've been home to do much of that but

it's been great. I love it. You've really been using yours

with your so many sessions you've had incorporating little

video clips into the sessions. I think that's really awesome.

Well the biggest thing I wanted to do

with what I learned with Natalie was I wanted to figure out a

flow that worked for me at my portrait sessions so that I

could do some video while shooting and then incorporate

that into my viewing and ordering appointments but also

create some video content for reels and just for social

sharing and that sort of thing. And I definitely feel like that

piece of it. I walked away with 100% and then you and I got a

chance to use some video get some more video practice when we

met at the Rock Pointe Ranch for our Cowgirls with Cameras and

gypsy vanner workshop that we had this last weekend right?

Yeah, that was fun, too. You skipped one we

went to the Yarborough Ranch before that

oh my gosh or other Yes. How can I forget that

like right after

the morning after Natalie left we went to

the Yarborough ranch Big shout out to Lynn Hanshew for that for

for getting us the opportunity to come photograph them doing a

little cattle work and they had some I think first year heifers

with their first calves and everything so that was a treat

getting to see them when they have about 30/35 head or pairs

that they worked with and of course they do a little

differently there. They mostly use dogs and bull whips they

rarely rope but they use shoes to do all their doctrine and

they don't do any any Ropin so it was very cool. Seeing the

different environment the cattle are living in lots more water

down there obviously so it was neat it really

was cool. I mean we shoot out west all the

time. So for me to get the opportunity living in Florida to

finally get an opportunity to shoot on a Florida Ranch was I

mean it was I don't know definitely bucket list for me

and they were so kind to let us follow along with them for the

day we rode in the back of a pickup truck which we hadn't

done in a long time while shooting but we got our pickup

truck legs and us and got to follow along with the action and

it was really neat. I'm I've barely had a chance to dig into

those images but I'm really excited about what we got to do

out there.

wait wait wait wait, I have a question. You

were standing up in the pickup truck filming like while they

were moving

a ton it's not like what they do at

sombrero it was we were holding on for dear life Oh so you're

not like they would stop let us shoot and then we hold on for

dear life again as we went to the next place

I had visions of the two of you like braced in

the back of a pickup truck with your and I know Natalie teaches

like handheld videoraphy. I have this vision of YouTube trying to

do steady shots in the back of a pickup as it's bouncing over

I think we did try once or twice it didn't come

Florida.

out very well. No. But you got to give us kudos for trying

I do but the visual there was just more than

I could like let go i i had to definitely know what that

picture looked and having experienced all of us having

some brutes forget sombrero ranch which you have you have it

they dunk you in this back of this pickup with like two bales

of hay wrapped in a tarp. And then they go they go I mean you

you are clutching and it's like, I don't know five photographers

jammed in the back of this pickup with fast I don't know

random 100 to $150,000 worth of camera gear bouncing around down

a highway and it's a lot of fun. I wouldn't trade that experience

for the world. But now I have this new vision of you and

Phyllis in a truck in a swamp and like I don't know were you

dodging alligators or anything.

No alligators, but I cannot wait to go back to

sombrero to the great American Horse drive in May. I am going

I'm so excited. You

lucky dog. Oh, I'm jealous.

I'll be I'll be in that pickup truck. hanging

on for dear life

just don't bounce out.

I didn't mean to get off track you were

talking about rockpoint ranch Cara, but I just didn't want you

to forget that we had been to Yarbrough ranch first before

Rock Pointe Ranch.

Oh, I'm glad you did. And I'm glad you did

but then write it a week later you and I were back together

again heading to the Rock Pointe Ranch over in floral Springs,

Florida where we met up with how many photographers did we end up

having? There were five I think for that event, right? Well,

we had 10 signed up and we had some pretty

bad weather coming in. So we gave the whole group the chance

to either get a credit and have their money back or still come

so five of them decided to still come and we're so thankful and

and blessed that they did because we had a great group and

we had a fabulous weekend we we ended up making a one day shoot

work into three days, Friday afternoon on Saturday morning

and again Sunday morning, which we had beautiful, beautiful

light Sunday morning, but we got it all done. And we're really

thankful to Nancy at the ranch for adjusting her schedule and

working with us to get all that done.

And she's got just some of the prettiest Gypsy

Vanner horses and her stallion Toffee is so gorgeous, and just

puts on such a nice show, we had a really good time. And I think

that one of the things I'm most grateful for about that event,

in addition to Nancy being so flexible and cleaning her horses

up and dodging the weather, but is that the photographer's that

we had there were just so good natured about the weather and

willing to be flexible and just kind of go with the flow, which

to me kind of feels like, you know, that's kind of part of

what we're talking about today in terms of workshops. I mean,

they were so willing and it paid off. I mean, they got great

images, the stuff I'm seeing coming out of it is just I'm

just super excited for them. And myself. I really can't wait to

look at my own pictures.

Well, I have to admit it rained all day all

day long here yesterday. So that's what I did is I worked on

a few images so that I could get my newsletter done and a blog

post about Rock Pointe. So that was my goal was to get that done

yesterday, which thanks to the crappy weather here. I was able

to stay inside all day.

So Phyllis, didn't you have something

special coming up with another podcast?

Yes. I'm a guest on a podcast called

Photographing the West with Kirby Flanagan. I'll be with

him. Thursday, we'll be recording. So I'm looking

forward to that. It's gonna be all about horse photography. And

I'll probably talk some about wild horse photography since

it's photographing the West and ranch photography wild horses.

It'll be fun. I'm looking forward to having that chat with

Kirby it got put off some because he he was pretty sick as

well. And so it was delayed. This podcast recording was

delayed. So I'm looking forward to spending some time with Kirby

Thursday.

You're just getting to be the podcast queen

she

really is making her rounds.

And when I get back from Minnesota, which we

didn't talk about that we're all going to be joining up together

in Minnesota next week. I'm going to be on Cheyennes

podcast.

So that'll be fun to go ahead and give the

name of Cheyennes podcast too so folks can find it. Oh

is Cheyenne Glade Wilson. It's the Native

Cowgirl. So everybody be listening for photographing the

West and the native cowgirl podcast. I

mean, after they get done listening to

cowgirls with cameras, right Rene,

The Business Animal, you gotta listen to the

Business Animal and The Business Animal and to give you a plug

for that so Cara, and Phyllis had that session with Natalie

one of the things that Cara and I did is we took a look at up

leveling your skills on The Business Animal podcast so if

that sort of thing interests you you could head over there and

listen to that so shameless plug for our other podcasts to talk

about.

I love every episode of yours podcast.

Thank you Phyllis.

I do it's it's it's really cool because even

though I know you both personally you're both so

knowledgeable Or you sound that way on your podcast and

we try we try so I

have seen more than my fair share of

Phyllis I think in the last couple of weeks. And I'm getting

ready to see her again next week. But I'm jealous I know but

you'll see us next week. You'll see us next week. But I will say

that it seems like I've been running all over the place but

the other big thing that I've been working on is it is

officially senior portrait season and it is insane. And so

one of the things that I have done when I when I've not been

running around shooting with Phyllis and doing our events I

have been photographing equestrian seniors nonstop and I

really am looking forward to having a few days to do nothing

but edit because that's what's on the on the radar for the next

couple of days. So I don't know I'm assuming there's probably a

bunch of other photographers out there right now that are feeling

the heat of the senior portrait season as well. So that's

probably been the biggest the big thing that's been on my mind

When I've not been shooting

your senior portrait season either kicks off

early or kicks off late because ours here is usually like in the

summer time curse. We are in Missouri and it's a little bit

ugly to do senior portraits outside right now,

yeah, it's too hot here in the summer. So

we do spring and fall.

I just also wanted to mention one other

thing that I was up to was I went to an intensive training

for my Gestalt practice that is going to be hugely beneficial to

retreat participants at our upcoming retreats and workshops.

I'm learning a lot about how to help people get out of their own

way with their creativity and also with blocks that keep them

being from being successful in business as well as in life with

their photography. So I'm super pumped about the training that I

just had. It was a really intense, wonderful training and

I was actually healthy for that one week. So it was a boon to be

not feeling bad and getting good training. So that was one thing

that I did additional to being sick. Phyllis, I understand

you've done some bird photography.

Oh, well, when I went down to meet with Natalie

and Cara I actually spent a day with Nancy Elwood who is a big

bird photographer because she's a big Nikon shooter as well. And

I had my new Nikon Z9 that I wanted a little bit more in

depth learning with so a shot for the day together and I had

never met Nancy. See, I've known her for years through social

media, but we clicked and had a great day and went out for

margaritas afterward and just had a really nice day I didn't

get anything or shatteringly great, but it was cool to spend

that time and practice with my camera and learn a lot of the

settings and learn more about the autofocus system on the

Nikon Z9 because that's one thing that has so many bells and

whistles It was between that and the videography that weekend I

was my brain was definitely on overload. So you know, it's

good. It's good for me to challenge this old brain as you

girls and try to keep it thinking and going forward. So

yeah, I enjoyed it. And also talking about the Gestalt you

set me up with your friend, Evie. Evie Rose. Yeah, Evie

Rose. And I'm excited every time I hear you guys have on a

podcast episode are talking about the Gestalt. You know, I'm

excited to have my session with her unfortunately got cancelled

from June till now. It's pushed back till September. But I'm

excited about doing that. So I think anybody that wants to look

into the Gestalt, and as Kim keeps talking about it, I think

it's might be a really beneficial thing to help your

game.

Absolutely, absolutely. mindset and

mindfulness and all of those things really play into your

creativity especially. And speaking of Evie Rose, there was

another big thing in my life. Evie Rose came out here for a

couple of days and helped me welcome five new herd members to

my herd, one of our fellow Gestalt has passed away and

their horses came here to the ranch because they wanted the

one of their wishes was that the horses remain our herd, and I'm

one of the few places that had enough space to take all five at

one time. One of them is 18. Hands high. He is a big, big

boy. So I have new, interesting photographic subjects out in my

pasture, which I am looking forward to getting out there. As

soon as the rain in Missouri goes away and having some fun

photography sessions with them. Because it's new, it's new

fodder for my lens. Ladies, are we ready to move on to talking

about workshops?

Yep, let's do it. Or

Cara is like, Yes, I'm ready, do it. So let's

talk about when you decide you want to take a workshop. So if

you're that your first time taking a workshop, I really want

you to examine the workshops that are out there. There's a

lot of great workshops with a lot of different photographers

with a lot of different subjects. And it really pays to

do your research before you choose the the workshop that you

want to go to. And my recommendation is that the very

first thing that you do is to know what you want to accomplish

with a workshop before you invest in one. So what is your

goal? Is it to expand your portfolio? Is it to expand your

knowledge? Is it to expand your skills? Is it just to meet up

with other photographers and be able to have that camaraderie I

know for me some of the workshops I go to are chosen

just for that because I know the people who are going to be there

and I want to have that time with other people who are

photographers and just be able to share about our lives and

about the things that we run into as photographers know what

your goal is. And

And sometimes it's just about getting access

to a location or a subject matter, you know, that you can't

necessarily access on your own but you can access in a workshop

setting so I think that can be a big motivator as well.

Absolutely, absolutely. And topic based

workshops like that. I know Phyllis goes to some bird

workshops and works with wildlife workshops and that kind

of thing. I know Phyllis is the workshop Queen Actually, she's

done a lot of them and a lot of different ones over a lot of

different spaces used to be. Now you're into the hosting part of

that. So just know what it is you want to do before you invest

in that workshop. And then when you do know your goal, make sure

you look over things to make sure that the fine print the

workshop is going to meet your goal does it offer model

releases, like if you're wanting to build your portfolio, or if

you're wanting to shoot, let's say, for fine art, and like Cara

said, you now have access to that location that you wouldn't

have access to otherwise. And then you get to the workshop and

you can't, you know, take the photos and sell them that

becomes a difficulty for you. So do read the fine print, look at

how many shoot locations there are going to be what's the

number of photographers,

I've definitely made that mistake

where I have just signed the contract and not looked at what

was included or not included in the workshop materials, I've

definitely made that mistake. And it really was disappointing

to find that the goals that I had for the workshop that I

couldn't use the images the way that I wanted to. And that was a

big lesson learned for me. So that is such a good point.

Always look at the paperwork that they're sending you read

the fine print those details, because you want to make sure

that the workshop the goals that you set that you can accomplish

the things that you hope to accomplish with those images,

and that there's not fine print telling you that you can't

Absolutely, and you know what if you have a

question, or you aren't sure, or if you have a very specific

goal, like you intend to sell the images after the workshop,

you know, there's nothing wrong with calling or emailing or

setting up an appointment with the people running the workshop

and talking with them for a couple of reasons. One, do you

jive? I mean, when you have a discussion with them, do you

find that there are a person that you want to work with. And

then also ask those questions and be very realistic about what

you intend to do with the images or what your expectations are of

the workshop because workshops are expensive. I mean, it's not

just the cost of the workshop, many times you want to rent

equipment that you're going to experiment with or that you

don't typically have in your bag, you're going to invest

money in that you're going to invest money and travel, you're

going to invest money and not being either at your business or

your job. So it's a big investment to come to a

workshop. And it's it's always a good idea to really cross the

t's and dot the I's and know that you're going to be able to

get and accomplish the goal that you set out to because if you do

accomplish that goal, it's worth every single penny. But if you

get a roadblock, it's frustration for you. And I've

talked to I'm sure you guys, as well talk to a lot of

photographers that have come to workshops with a certain goal in

mind and found that they couldn't accomplish that goal.

Anything else you guys can think of in choosing a workshop that

you would give advice around in just that piece of things.

I love hosting workshops, because I think I'll

learn a lot from the participants. And I think the

participants should always go to a workshop with an open mind

because everybody that's attending that workshop is going

to bring something a little different to the table and

you'll learn something from others and others will learn

something from you. I think that's part of it. I think

that's what makes the fellowship and camaraderie and you've all

got a shared passion, not only photography, but whatever the

subject matter is, in our case, it would be horses, of course.

But I think that's that's what makes this so much fun is

gaining knowledge from each other too, and keeping an open

mind. And also I have to say too, that my experience is that

it's hard to help people when you don't know what they want,

they really need. So I think it's really important to let

your leader know your questions or concerns or so that they can

be sure to help you and address those and give guidance wherever

it's needed. And if you do have something like you said, Kim, I

think in particular, to get in touch with the leader or

whoever's running the workshop and with your questions or

concerns beforehand and let them know what you would like to work

on. And so that they can adjust for that in the schedule maybe

if possible. Sometimes it's not possible. But I think that's

really helpful to have communication with you later and

talk to them and let them know what you what you expect out of

the workshop.

And if you can have that conversation in

advance in a way where you're talking about like kind of your

level of photography as well. Like if you're a brand new

photographer, attending a workshop where there's not a lot

of support from the leaders of the workshop, it might lessen

your chances of walking away with great images. So I think

spending some time having conversations with the workshop

leaders about kind of where you are in your photography, your

experience level can be really huge too, so that they can let

you know. Yep, absolutely. We can provide a supportive

environment to help move you forward or if this really isn't

a great workshop for you because there's not going to be a lot of

opportunity to you know, kind of handhold through that process.

So that can be huge.

That's what I really love about the model for

our Cottonwood ranch experiences is being able to have those

onboarding calls with potential clients beforehand so that they

can see if they think we're going to be a fit for them more

than are, you know, are they going to be a fit for us, I

think you know, just to see if we mesh together and if they

want to spend more time with us and that kind of thing, I think

it's really helpful on both sides on both ends to, for us to

know what what the client wants, and for the client to know if

they can, you know, are even going to be able to mesh with

us. And if it's people that they want to spend more time with.

Absolutely. And you have to be careful. So some

of you, I didn't have this experience in photography, but I

did have it in writing, sometimes we watch or follow a

photographer for many, many years. And then they offer a

workshop or a mentor or somebody who's a leader, and then we get

there and it ends up being this huge letdown, you know, your

mentors are humans too. And for me, I did that with a writing

workshop. I'd followed a writer for many, many years, I

absolutely loved her work, I got to the workshop, and my

expectations were so super high over her that I didn't have a

good workshop, because she wasn't exactly who I you know, I

didn't allow her to be human in my brain. So I guess I'm what

I'm saying is, you know, have some grace, on your end in that

communication. I think it's a good pre communication, because

it does set you up for the realism, of meeting your mentors

of meeting the people that you follow, and being able to see

them as human because workshops will definitely sometimes bring

out the human in all of us.

I think like Cara said earlier having on both

hands is having a great amount of flexibility is really helpful

on the participants and on the leaders in as being flexible. So

absolutely. So now let's say you've you've

chosen your workshop, you've communicated with the workshop

leader, you know, this is right for you, you're excited about

it, and workshop dates are approaching. So there are some

things that you need to do ahead of time before attending a

workshop. So for example, our workshops in particular are held

in places that don't tend to have the best internet on the

planet. So you can't depend on the fact that you will have

access to something that is fast enough to be able to do your

updates or you know, if you want to try a particular application

and you want to download it at the event, sometimes that's not

possible. So it's really important that you really do a

good checklist ahead of time, get your software updated it

whatever you use for editing or want to use for editing on this

particular trip. If you're trying something new, make sure

you have it downloaded, make sure your subscriptions are paid

for make sure that it's the latest version of that make sure

any other apps that you need are on your computer, make sure that

they're available for you and that you really do have the

latest greatest of everything and then also think about what's

in your gear bag, talk over or look over the places or

locations you're going to be shooting ask questions about

what camera gear the leader suggests you bring what lenses

what level of camera equipment they would recommend and then if

you need to rent something, you can rent it and then when you go

to pack you definitely want to quadruple check everything in

your bag. Make sure you have your cards make sure you have

your chargers make sure you have your batteries, a lot of things

that you need to have as a checklist Do either of you

ladies I fly by the seat of my pants, and I'm pretty sure

Phyllis does too but it would not surprise me at all if Cara

didn't have a written checklist of what goes in her bag.

No I absolutely do not have a

checklist I'm not that organized I'm pretty organized but I do

not have a checklist.

There is one thing I would like to add about

your gear bag is I know what this is tough for some people

but bringing two cameras is a big thing if you have a

malfunction on one of your cameras and you've paid all this

money to go to a workshop and you don't have a backup camera

then you're SOL I mean that's that's a big one to me is to

have an have a backup camera bring two camera bodies with

you. Absolutely.

I'm currently working with a rental system

because one of my cameras started malfunctioning before we

went to the Gypsy Vanner workshop this weekend and I

ended up renting a second camera so that just in case there were

issues I had something to shoot with at the workshop and you

know you come out of pocket with it, but it's definitely worth it

to make sure that your gear is is there and set up and ready to

go. And you know, a lot of us when we're home working, we

might be working on a desktop and then when we're traveling

we're working on a laptop and I have definitely been the one

that hasn't spent my time updating all my programs,

writing my passwords down or having them someplace where I

can find them if I need them importing brushes and presets if

you use those sort to things, I'm definitely guilty of that

sometimes. So the more that you can do to prep and have all that

ready to go, the more successful and less stressed and the

faster, you'll be able to get down to the business of enjoying

your images and creating instead of just playing catch up when

you get there to get to a place where you can get started. And

the people running the workshop will appreciate that too.

Because then they're able to kind of move everyone along and

bring the you know, the education piece to it, if that's

part of your event, yes,

all good advice, don't get to the

workshop, like I did with Natalie, and then figure out

that my laptop is not going to work Premiere Pro.

We're all guilty of it at some point. We

are in there. And I think the biggest thing is to show up with

an open mind, you know, be ready to try something different. I

always try to go into a workshop with the idea that this is my

chance to create something different to try something that

I've always wanted to try pull out my inspiration list of

images that I like to try to create this is an opportunity a

lot of times to do that, because you can't always test out that

stuff, when you're in a situation where you're having to

create paid work for clients. But this is the chance sometimes

where we can play and we can do some of that stuff. And we can

brainstorm with the other photographers that are there to

get input on ideas. And that is definitely one of the coolest

parts of attending workshops. And if you can come with some of

that kind of ready in your mind in that place, I think you'll be

off to a better start. I know all three of us have been at

workshops where we have kind of like lol days where our brains

our creativity kind of is fills diminished. And we're having to

work really hard to be creative. So having that little like list

of ideas in your pocket a lot of times for me will jumpstart me

into a creative space so that I can get a lot more out of the

workshop. Do you guys feel that way? Sometimes? I feel like

we've had this conversation before.

Definitely yes. I'm already thinking about

different things we can do at Dryhead and Cottonwood and that

kind of thing. And it's it's great. I think it's good also to

even just look at Pinterest and look at look at the web's you

know other people's feeds and just see different things that

you might want to try or, you know, I think it's funny how

I've always loved shooting wide and long, you know, and up close

something. And I love the details. But I love a sense of

the environment too. And I think it's funny how people will come

in, they'll go oh, I never use a wide angle lens. And then they

try it one time. And then they're hooked. You know? So

it's, it's, it's a lot of fun.

Oh, for sure. I don't know, I feel like I've

learned I remember my very first workshop experience was with

Equine Photographers Network over at Powderhorn. That was one

of my first probably not my first first but one of my first

and I remember coming with like this kind of preconceived notion

about what I was going to try to capture while I was there. And

because I was willing to just kind of relax and look around me

and see what other people were doing and strike up

conversations with the other participants about what are you

shooting? And why are you shooting it that way? And tell

me your thoughts behind that, that I feel like I got so much

more out of that experience and was able to come back with stuff

that I probably would have never imagined I could create on my

own. And that to me, I mean, I know for Fast Horse attending

that first workshop with Equine Photographers Network at

Powderhorn propelled my business and the exposure to my local

community so much further, because I was now creating

something that I don't want to say it was worth looking at. But

it was something that got my community excited to because I

wasn't able to do that necessarily by myself, because

my skill level wasn't there yet. But after attending that it made

a big difference.

Your skill level jumped up by a ton just

from going to that one event. And I think what's great too is

thanks to Erin our motto is one more time so what's great is

that you know even though you may shoot something and think

oh, I didn't get it the way I wanted well, we'll just have him

do it one more time, you know, so that's that's really great

that we can a good thing about a workshop versus having a client

shoot is that you can shoot it over again it may not be exactly

the same great action as it was the first time or this the same

great moment. Or it might be better Yeah, but But you get you

get the opportunity to shoot it one more time. And you can try

one time with a long lens you can try one time with a with a

wide angle lens. So that's what's great too. Or you could

video one of the runs you know that kind of thing so that you

got different options which

you and I are going to be doing Yeah, so much

more excited about video. I haven't even had a chance to

look at my gypsy Vanner videos yet and I can't wait. Okay, so

the last thing I would say to consider is be prepared for the

weather. I'm a big one. I can't stand being cold. So be sure

that you bring your weather you know anything that's appropriate

for the conditions if it's going to be rain, bring your rain

gear, just really be thinking about that weather. Now Phyllis

one of the things that you have done recently is you've written

some stuff around the different types of events that people

might attend. Can you briefly mention that but Before we wrap

this up today,

yes, I do have this description to clarify for

people when on my website but it's basically the difference

between workshops, retreats and tours because I host all three

but the the workshops are going to have a little bit more

structured atmosphere, it's going to be more learning more

of the technical and the creative side for you to develop

help to develop your your style the retreats for some people is

going to vary a little bit. But I think what both a workshop and

retreat do have in common is or even the tour is that they get

you away from your daily routine so that you can bring a whole

new perspective to an energy back in your everyday life to

your photography, when you get back home and is going to really

help you think about things in a different way. The only tour

that I host is my Iceland tour and as basically it is all about

getting the clients to a place that they would not otherwise be

able to experience without the organised event it's it's a lot

more casual. And while I say casual, although our we were

pretty much on the go and Iceland but we do stay at a

horse farm so it is more focused on a destination with a great

amount of photography included and getting to see someplace

that you would not normally or getting to see things like

horses running in front of waterfalls and just different

things that you would not be able to see otherwise when we do

the tour in Iceland we also get to do day trips where we explore

more of the island is just a chance to connect with a when

you do tours. I think it's a chance to connect with another

world and use photography as a means to explore that word.

Yeah, I think you're dead on with that. I

think the only thing I would add to that is workshops tends to be

a word that is kind of thrown around a lot so it's kind of

used as a catch all for photography events. So I would

definitely you know when when someone creates an event and

they put it out as a workshop, I would definitely be very clear

about how they define what a workshop is. So it could be more

like a meet up or photography tour. So that would be the only

thing I would add to that. So I think that's a really good kind

of takeaway for people and can you tell them Phyllis real quick

where they can find your write up on that for more details,

it's on my website. If you just click on

workshops and tours it will be at the very top and it will take

you to another link where where it will go to that page and give

you the descriptions of all three Oh

PhyllisBurchettephoto.net

So now is the time for our CW see photo

challenge of this particular episode. And what I want to do

is ask you to get outside your comfort zone. So all workshops

in my opinion and retreats, those things are an opportunity

like Cara mentioned for us to get outside our comfort zone to

try something different. Try something new. So what I want to

challenge you to do is to create your own little mini workshop

experience all by yourself. You try something different a new

camera, a new shooting technique, a new editing

technique, but pick something up that is maybe pushing your

boundaries a little bit or where you feel like maybe that's a

little bit outside of what you would normally do and give it a

try and you know, share your results with us on Instagram.

Use the hashtag #CWCPhotoChallenge and we will

see you next time on The cowgirls with cameras podcast.

Thanks for listening to this episode of cowgirls with

cameras. Don't let the laughter and learning stop here. Join our

community on social media. And be sure to visit our website for

more opportunities to fulfill your photography goals head to

cowgirlswithcameras.com That's cowgirlswithcameras.com See you