April Tribe Giauque 0:00
Hello, thank you so much, Dr. Miller for inviting me here today.

Brad Miller 0:04
Awesome. April, it is awesome to have you here today. You have quite a fascinating story. We're going to get into your book here just a little bit. But what we like to talk about here on the pathway to promise is people who have found a way to deal with adversity to deal with the circumstances that happen in life. I know you've had your share of challenges your share of adversity and I just if you don't mind it, just like can you share your story a little bit, some of the things that you challenge you faced, and then we'll use as a foundation what we can teach others.

April Tribe Giauque 0:34
All right, you bet. So let's start at a place where probably a good mark in our lives, right? We have times through our lives that we're always going to be learning. This is definitely our life is definitely a place to come and to learn. And it's to learn who we're going to follow how we're going to return home to our Heavenly Father. Yeah. In my life, just like anyone else's life. It's never going to be free of trials, adversity, events that are possibly traumatic things like that. So in my life growing up, and had a loving family, I'm one of five children, going to church, believing in God, understanding how Christ can work in our lives. And at the same time, there is opposition in all things, right? So just as strong as your faith is going to be, well, it's going to be tested as equally as strong, if that makes sense,

Brad Miller 1:31
of course.

April Tribe Giauque 1:32
So I came across these tests just as life presents them and started to hear what I call my shame, shadow. That's that little voice of doubt and all of those things that really try to pull you down. Some people call the voice of the destroyer those kinds of things. Well, I call it my shame, shadow. And good old shame he back there. He would constantly say one phrase to me. Which is possibly slightly different than what he says to other people. He would say to me, you are too much. Too much energy. Too much smile, too much talent too much this. So he took he took a route that was completely different than I think what other people do some people say, I'm not enough, I'm not pretty not right. They go on that route, right? Of course, you are too much. And so Wow, I was like, I better back off, I better scale it down. I better try to hide myself and listen to other people. And that's where this persuasion started to happen, right? Because he was pretty loud and in my face, and at the same time, I was a believer and strong in the Gospel and loving my Savior. And so I learned through that process is that he's going to be equal and opposite on both things where we're Have to make the choice. Am I going to face the light or am I going to keep turning towards the shame shadow that's behind me. Because if you have light that's casting in front of you, your shadow will always be back there. It's your choice if you're going to turn towards the shadow, or if you're going to turn towards light and take the action and move forward. So there's lots of things like that. So in my life, I had some ups and downs. There was a sexual abuse that happened with a neighbor and trying to heal and overcome a lot of those things like that on my own, with just the help of scriptures and with Christ, I didn't say anything to anybody. And that led me into a place where I was doing pretty good, but not quite all the way at after high school and things like that. I decided to go out and preach the word and become a missionary. Following my missionary service. It was time to get married and I knew I was going to have a family. I wanted to Aaron and in that process, found someone who I felt had the same goals have the same plans had the same strength and testimony of God. And so I was like, these are great attributes. These are great characteristics, and I love him. And this looks like a great match. So I always knew that the concept of trials, it wasn't going to be like happily ever after. But what I did think is that it was going to be together Ever After that, what happens, we would be on that same face track that same idea, like we can do things together. And I started to learn through the process of just how life goes and how stress is added on to a relationship, like marriage. And that old habits that he had had started to spring back up, which became addictions to drugs and alcohol and, and and to pornography. So right there, I was like, Oh, that's a blame right there. I can blame what's happening. Because of an addiction, I can blame all of these problems because he's looking at pornography. I can delay right? I figured, well, that's the problem. So,

counseling,

I know we could try to do this at the other. Because my mind was still stuck on we had the same goal. We had the same leafs and

now you're over here and

I don't understand. And I was missing the point that hey, this is the trial. I was like, wait a minute, we're supposed to be together in this trial. Not that's not wait a minute. So I had to do a lot of thinking and a lot of self awareness with with all that.

Brad Miller 5:41
This has to do with you in even regards to your husband. This decision you were talking about earlier about the shame, shadow and the go into the light you are having to make those those calculations as it were in regards to your husband and how you were relating to him decisions you were making. That way.

April Tribe Giauque 6:01
It did, but later, for the longest time for almost nine years of our marriage, okay, I'll just keep pulling them along. We'll just keep trying, ever because I thought that that was the real problem. Again, I blamed it on this, this concept, the idea of addiction that will if he could just solve that problem, then they'd be back we go,

Brad Miller 6:24
you were trying to change him.

April Tribe Giauque 6:27
tried to change him back to where he was, because that's what he was. He was

Brad Miller 6:30
Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah.

April Tribe Giauque 6:32
Two and a half years. That's where we thought we were going and then okay. Thought for a long time that that's what he also want. It was like, help me I'm stuck in this addiction and I need help. And that was not the case. was with them. We had an added component that I didn't know until an event happened and I share it in the book. I don't want to do any spoilers. What will just say it has to do with deep sense of mental illness that I was unaware of until this event happened. And when that happened, I knew how deep we were in it. We had just had my fourth child who were in amount of debt. He would leave for days at a time. And it felt like everyone in the neighborhood everyone at church, they all knew the story. But not myself. No board, because I didn't really want to see. And the other part is, I really couldn't know because at this point, I have four children. My first three have autism.

Brad Miller 7:36
Oh my goodness.

April Tribe Giauque 7:37
This started to turn towards anything I could do to get them to communicate to stop hitting, biting, headbanging, we were in via crisis. And so looking at how we could pull them out of it, give them some skills, give them some communication something. So my focus went there and I just thought he's going to have to do what he can on his own. And we did the cycles we had five cycles in our marriage where we would do rate he would repent he would come back to church addictions would stop and he would be clean and sober for four or five six months and things are going pretty good. And then the event the stress the something spiral down would happen again. And by the time we were at the bottom I would usually discover I was four or five months pregnant

Brad Miller 8:32
which is kind of you know you had a dolly the spiral into personally but my goodness you had to all the physical stuff of being pregnant and raising children and autism. you're you're you're describing a situation which is Wow, that is just blows my mind it away really does. Yeah,

April Tribe Giauque 8:50
yeah, it people will ask how did you get through this? No, it was through the faith. Just supporting me. Get me to every single day that I need to go Through. Now laced in all of this was abuse in the most emotional, spiritual, financial as well as physical way possible. And these encounters and as I would spiral down, and then try to rebound again and try to pull him back up with me, just never would raise back to the top level, it was like one and then it would come up, it could never reach that top again, and then down and then come back up. But it would be a lower level than it was the first two times. And so it was before then I say five cycles because I have five children. So it kind of went in that cycle pattern. And by the fifth one, I was like, hang on.

Brad Miller 9:44
I finally started get it. Sorry.

April Tribe Giauque 9:49
Yeah, it was tough. It was tough for my family who were just the ultimate supporters stayed with me. And through this discovery of writing my book

and sharing this story.

I learned what the ultimate supporter is I learned what the true gift of having an unconditional love is. They did not yell at me they did not judge me out loud, at least to my ears. Now they might have gone to the neighbor can't believe this, but said those things, they will be with me with me. And I can't tell you if they have abandoned me, I don't know if I would have been. I really don't know. I know that at the crucial times and when I was ready, I knew I had sport. And so when I could finally leave, I needed to do with me they were probably high five and in the background and like cheering and whooping at her.

Brad Miller 10:45
Well, you describe what you're describing there as low I know you talk about loving your your writing. So I'm being a victim, advocate or supporter and helping to kind of define and understand those, those roles. So what do you what kind of things did you learn April out of all this convoluted painful experience, not only with your husband and your kids and these folks in your life, what do you learn in there and now that you're able to share with others to help them to deal with these similar circumstances?

April Tribe Giauque 11:19
No, I have an approach that goes into to two types of classes are two types of people. So I have a full supportive group that I and I help Where are victims to become Victor's we, my my focuses for them to find what I believe that all of us are blessed with the light of God in us and that through our events, we slowly enter choices, we dim out that light. So I help them discover that light and then start to fuel it and amplify it. And that's one piece that we work on. Another piece I work on. is all for the family members, the friends and the CO Those of the people who know friend or their family member is in abuse, and yet their hands are tied. They don't know what to do. They don't know what to say. They feel like if, what if I say the wrong things, some of them might feel this is really sticky. I don't know what to do, but I can't just leave them here. So what I teach that group, which I call my ultimate supporters, the supporters to narrow that gap, that supporters gap that they have where they have this person, but they don't know they don't have the tools to know what, because some of them a start to assume this superhero like okay, well, I'll just go in and save the day. Okay.

There's only one person you can say. And that is Christ. Sure.

Your job is to be with

them. And to not take on that emotion and the grief and the

because you might have a time. I know I did this. I do. Was ranting about everything, everything, everything. And I could see my sister listening and listening. And she thinks she can comment back and forth. And I said, but I still love him. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. And, and you should leave. And if she would have done all of that, and then I put this to the end.

Brad Miller 13:23
Yeah, you could have been impact your relationship with your sister as well. And so you felt like you've learned some profound things. And you've got some systems here that you've put together to be helpful to people in these various roles, which I think is a powerful tool. Really, I just think it's a needed tool. And I just know that the, you know, as a pastor of a church, I've done certainly on my share of counseling and therapy and whatnot, you know, with folks and challenging marriages and other things as well. And so often, you know, we I guess I'll just say it, you know, and some of my somewhat lame way I will share with people don't be helpful, just be a good listener. Well, that's a piece of it, of course, but what you're helping us do is get some more, or tools here to to involve their with this. Where do the kids come into play and all this? Where does the family dynamic come into play? You mentioned this verse, this very particular situation of autistic children. And you know, a part of what you teach and lead is about parenting and leadership. So tell me unpack that a little bit for me, how you related to that, and then what you can teach other folks as well about parenting?

April Tribe Giauque 14:28
You bet. So what I focus in on parenting is I believe I'm a big believer in empowering somebody with skills. Because for the most part, we want to be able to help and we need to do something in order to be that help. So with parenting skills, especially with anyone with special needs, what I teach the parents is that they have that light within them that empowers them to truly be the expert on their own kid. So many times when parents are given You know, the label the diagnosis of whatever it is, there is definitely grief that happens through them. And all of that can be acknowledged. But at the same time, we kind of say, Well, I'm not the expert. And we hand off the kid back to the school, to therapies to whatever it all that has a place. But sometimes we don't trust ourselves to be able ones to say, wait a minute, a part of this team to my voice. I know my kid the best. leading this team effort knew what to do with, you know, all the therapies, with school with accommodations, fees with all of that. So I teach them one way to do that. And I do almost everything for the power books. I love, love, love, love, love. This part about being a parent. All parents can read stories to the kids, right or the library. book read with your kid that does not add anything extra to your day, right? Sometimes when we start into this project of like, Okay, I'm going to take a parenting course and we're going to learn all these skills and it's going to add add to my day, right? I got nine kids, I don't want anything added. No, I'm like, I'm going to be reading to my kids, at least lately. Yeah. We grab books and through the power of the book, whatever the story is, we can explain social skills we can explain where they might be missing. Some of the connections that happen now I use autism, the social skills and the language are the two biggest barriers when we think about anyone being on the autism spectrum. So I love to get books like anything written by Mark Brown, the author series, the bear seen bears, whatever, anything like that, and we sit down that because a lot of those books have those morals in them. any book, like for example, there's a book called walking, and it's very simple book, I am walking to the house, I am walking with the duck, I am walking with the dog. It's not about the words, we're looking at the pictures. And identifying is, look, look at what's happening there. Are they? Are they sad? And we're showing that through the parents asking a few questions. And I'm actually

Brad Miller 17:31
what I'm hearing you're saying is it's so important to remain engaged even when the temptation is to disengage or to abdicate some responsibility, those kind of throw up your hands, you know, what am I what's going on here, and to sell that you're teaching kind of strategies that hopefully don't add too much more on the people in the course of what you're doing, to make sure you are intentionally engaged. And I think that's what I'm here, you say here. And I think it's kind of the theme of everything you're involved with, is don't just say But to engage you know, you're talking about really some denial and other things like that in your, in your marriage and about how you need to be engaged spiritually and emotionally in your loving relationships certainly in your things like your health and your vitality and also things like your personal disciplines and your cognitive powers. So that comes to me that that's you're talking like a teacher now I come from a family of teachers. I'm a teacher preacher, myself, I have have a sister who's a special needs teacher and my mother and father were teachers. How does this go into this world of teaching your because you work in a school I understand and how could that's kind of the other side of the equation. You know, this parody thing? You got the parenting thing, but we're talking about human development now. So how what do you say to teachers, how do you speak to those folks?

April Tribe Giauque 18:46
Oh, my favorite. So when I go around the country and I speak about social emotional learning for all, it's this whole entire entire concept that all are worthy of learning all So how do we get that child to engage with us? What do we do very, very first thing, like the best teacher