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115: How to Put a Team Back Together After Bad Management
Episode 115 • 10th November 2022 • Turning the Table • Realignment Media
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Turning the Table Ep. 115: Jim Taylor and Adam Lamb respond to a listener's questions about a situation we've all had to deal with at one point in our career:

"How to put her team back together after a period of mismanagement?"

Learn how you can bounce back from bad leadership practices.

Listener email: "I came across your podcast this morning while looking for some hope in the hospitality industry. I love the hospitality industry so much!

I have been in just about every position in the restaurant business.

Your most recent podcasts really made me feel vindicated after coming home from a job I have only been at for a month as the Assistant F&B director for a hotel and feeling defeated(something that I don’t feel very often).

I stepped into a situation where the previous manager had treated the team so poorly that everyone was ready to quit.

I was beginning to think that maybe my expectations were too high I don’t mean of the staff I mean expectations for upper management to care a little about the employees and about training staff to succeed at their jobs.

I just really wanted to thank you guys for doing a podcast that speaks so openly about the restaurant industry's mental health issues, the retention of good employees, and the importance of good management.

Wishing you all the best."

Turning the Table is the most progressive podcast for today's food and beverage industry featuring staff-centric operating solutions for restaurants in the #newhospitalityculture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb as they "turn the tables" on the prevailing operating assumptions of the restaurant business in favor of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Check out the weekly videocast on

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Benchmark Sixty sponsors this show; check out their unique staff retention solution.

In Partnership with Chef Life Coaching

Turning the Table is a production of Realignment Media.




This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

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Transcripts

Adam Lamb:

Welcome to another episode of Turning the Table, sponsored by

Adam Lamb:

Benchmark 60, Turning the table as the most progressive weekly podcast for

Adam Lamb:

today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff centric operating

Adam Lamb:

solutions for restaurants in the hashtag new hospitality culture.

Adam Lamb:

My name is Adam Lamb and I'm a career coach for chefs and

Adam Lamb:

hospitality professionals.

Adam Lamb:

This episode is one 15.

Adam Lamb:

How do you put the pieces back together?

Adam Lamb:

We ask that you share the show with someone you care about who can find this.

Adam Lamb:

Useful and leave a review.

Adam Lamb:

And I'd like to welcome my co-host, Jim Taylor, Benchmark 60 morning Adam.

Adam Lamb:

How are you Jim?

Adam Lamb:

How are you Ben?

Jim Taylor:

I'm good.

Adam Lamb:

And I'm glad, I'm glad to hear you finally got some rest, cuz

Adam Lamb:

you've been running the candle at both ends with the new child and Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

You know, running the business and everything and I thought we

Adam Lamb:

would start with some listener mail that we got That's, Yeah,

Adam Lamb:

it's pretty potent stuff so.

Adam Lamb:

The male goes like, Hi, I came across your podcast this morning while looking for

Adam Lamb:

some hope in the hospitality industry.

Adam Lamb:

First off, that's a really powerful, that's a really powerful first, mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

statement, you know, looking for hope in the hospitality industry.

Adam Lamb:

I love the hospitality industry so much.

Adam Lamb:

I've been in it about every position in the restaurant business.

Adam Lamb:

Your most recent podcast made me feel vindicated after feeling defeated,

Adam Lamb:

something I don't feel very often.

Adam Lamb:

I stepped into a situation where blank.

Adam Lamb:

Her direct report has treated the team so poorly that everyone is ready.

Adam Lamb:

I was beginning to think that maybe my expectations were too high.

Adam Lamb:

I don't mean of the staff.

Adam Lamb:

I mean expectations for upper management to just care a little bit about the

Adam Lamb:

employees and about training staff to succeed at their jobs mostly.

Adam Lamb:

I just really wanted to thank you guys for doing a podcast that speaks

Adam Lamb:

so openly about the mental health issues and the restaurant industry

Adam Lamb:

and retention of good employees and the importance of good management.

Adam Lamb:

Wishing you all the best.

Adam Lamb:

So first off we wanted to say thank you very much.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

, it's kind of a courageous email to.

Adam Lamb:

Because Jim, I know right before the show we were talking about, both of

Adam Lamb:

us have actually been in this similar situation, and I think that, yeah, if

Adam Lamb:

you've been in the industry long enough, you will run into this situation while

Adam Lamb:

you're you know, either have to clean up a mess that someone has left or

Adam Lamb:

to be kind of wedged in the middle of the situation where you see obviously

Adam Lamb:

a deficit in, in leadership such that the staff has been kind of traumatized.

Adam Lamb:

And that person is probably still on staff somewhere very often.

Adam Lamb:

You direct reports.

Adam Lamb:

So there's a lot of there's a lot of needles to thread in this conversation,

Adam Lamb:

so I just wanted to first start by saying or asking you, have you ever

Adam Lamb:

been in a situation where you had to walk into an operation that had

Adam Lamb:

clearly been mismanaged or misled?

Adam Lamb:

And what were a couple of the first things that you did while you were.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah, I, I

Jim Taylor:

mean it's, there's lots of scenarios that, and I think we need to

Jim Taylor:

address the fact that, you know, sometimes as in in management positions, we go

Jim Taylor:

into a scenario where, you know, we could either think it's been mismanaged or the

Jim Taylor:

team thinks that it's been mismanaged.

Jim Taylor:

Right?

Jim Taylor:

And I think what we're trying to chat about today is those scenarios

Jim Taylor:

where the team feels like it's been mismanaged because everybody's got

Jim Taylor:

opinion on how on operations should run.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

. You know, I think there's a couple of scenarios that I was involved

Jim Taylor:

in in my operations career where, you know, you start a new position

Jim Taylor:

and the team comes forward and just says this, you know, things need to

Jim Taylor:

change or we need help, or, you know, we're happy there's someone new here.

Jim Taylor:

You know, whether you know them or not.

Jim Taylor:

And you know, I think that my approach to trying to work through and navigate those

Jim Taylor:

types of situations was always just based.

Jim Taylor:

, nothing matters more than making sure that the team is comfortable

Jim Taylor:

and feels supported and happy coming to work every day.

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

and I, I think that that's, you know, more, more apparent now than ever

Jim Taylor:

with, there's places that are already tight for staff and losing more

Jim Taylor:

people, you know, isn't an option.

Jim Taylor:

So, you know, I think, yeah, I've been in that situation a few times and it's

Jim Taylor:

never easy to work through because it doesn't hap, it doesn't change overnight.

Jim Taylor:

It doesn't, Those wounds don't heal over.

Jim Taylor:

You know, I think you mentioned you've been involved in some of that before

Adam Lamb:

too.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And I guess that's a great point that you're making.

Adam Lamb:

You know, how do you make a differentiation between say, you know,

Adam Lamb:

they often say the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so there might be a couple team

Adam Lamb:

members who you might not necessarily feel familiar with yet that are very

Adam Lamb:

often the first ones to kind of like talk.

Adam Lamb:

Meetings and say, Hey, you know, we really need help.

Adam Lamb:

We need this, we need that.

Adam Lamb:

And it's hard to differentiate whether or not that's the truth

Adam Lamb:

or that that's just their opinion.

Adam Lamb:

Do, do you know what I mean?

Jim Taylor:

For sure.

Jim Taylor:

And, and, yeah, it's, it's interesting to go through that process and

Jim Taylor:

trying to differentiate, like you said, between the person who's just.

Jim Taylor:

Vocal and the person who genuinely cares about, about the rest of

Jim Taylor:

the team and change and, and, you know, moving the business forward.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

And, you know, I think that this is something that we talk

Jim Taylor:

about pretty much every week.

Jim Taylor:

You talk about it in your business.

Jim Taylor:

I talk about it in my business and just trying to find ways to do a better job

Jim Taylor:

of protecting the employee experience and the career experience in hospitality.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

And, and in this case, this is exactly a, a, you know, applaud her for

Jim Taylor:

sending through that comment because she's speaking about the exact same

Jim Taylor:

thing, but from her experience.

Adam Lamb:

So let's, let's take the listener's position that she's been

Adam Lamb:

around the operation enough to know that there's, you know, that people

Adam Lamb:

are walking around with their, their heads down, their shoulders bowed, that

Adam Lamb:

there's not a lot of pride in the team.

Adam Lamb:

That there's, you know, clearly a lack of, you know, You know, it's not, It's

Adam Lamb:

not for nothing that we say Retention is the new cool, because very often

Adam Lamb:

you can look at the statistics and know whether or not someone's been

Adam Lamb:

managing an operation well enough.

Adam Lamb:

And I've been known to say once or twice that you know, you can

Adam Lamb:

tell a good chef by his leaving.

Adam Lamb:

Meaning that once he, he or she leaves and you take stock of where the team

Adam Lamb:

is, both emotionally and operationally, you can very often make a very clear

Adam Lamb:

distinction about whether or not they were really good at their job or not.

Adam Lamb:

Because let's face it, some people are very charismatic and

Adam Lamb:

very personally forceful and they can keep an operation running.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

although probably not to what we would consider to be the best form of,

Adam Lamb:

you know, Efficiency or productivity.

Adam Lamb:

But you know, once that person is gone and they're out of that situation,

Adam Lamb:

then there's nothing kind of holding all those people together other

Adam Lamb:

than, you know, I guess in a certain situation would be either fear.

Adam Lamb:

But let's, let's say she's pretty clear about what's been going on mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

and yet that person that was responsible for that is still in

Adam Lamb:

the management structure somewhere.

Adam Lamb:

How does she even start to have a convers.

Adam Lamb:

First off with, with her direct report and a, not make them wrong for what

Adam Lamb:

they did because that's probably the start of a very short conversation,

Adam Lamb:

but to be able to look at the operation holistically and neutrally such that

Adam Lamb:

they can come to some type of consensus about what it would look like to move

Adam Lamb:

the team forward in a cohesive manner.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

You know, we, we were having this discussion with a, an operations

Jim Taylor:

team the other day about, You know, looking at the business in terms of the

Jim Taylor:

feedback that's come forward, the ideas that have come forward, the concerns that

Jim Taylor:

have come forward and actually trying to paint a picture of what would the perfect

Jim Taylor:

operation look like and, and be really objective about the feedback that they're

Jim Taylor:

receiving and try to, you know, create.

Jim Taylor:

Specific you know, ideas and things that we can work on every day in order to

Jim Taylor:

get to that perfect operation, you know?

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

and remove, you know, the, there, I always found that when I was in that

Jim Taylor:

mid-level management type position, my job was to filter information filter.

Jim Taylor:

You know, negative feedback, constructive criticism from the upper levels of

Jim Taylor:

management that maybe, you know, and not their own fault, sometimes slightly

Jim Taylor:

disconnected with exactly what's going on.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

My job was to filter at some of that so that the team didn't feel it.

Jim Taylor:

Hmm.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

And then, you know, like I said, really work on what does the perfect

Jim Taylor:

scenario look like every day, and work with the team on the, you know,

Jim Taylor:

in the field, on the ground every day to try to build towards that.

Jim Taylor:

Because it's, it's so tricky when the person or the people in the senior

Jim Taylor:

levels of leadership have one idea about what's going on and then sort of

Adam Lamb:

gets filtered down, right?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

I have some pretty specific experience around this that we'll get

Adam Lamb:

to in a, in a second with a story.

Adam Lamb:

But ultimately it comes down to if I'm hearing it correctly,

Adam Lamb:

wanting to protect the team.

Adam Lamb:

And I also get that the team may not necessarily be aware

Adam Lamb:

of those efforts to protect.

Adam Lamb:

And I say this because I always felt that it was important for me to own

Adam Lamb:

the company line no matter what it was, because it's way too easy to go

Adam Lamb:

into an operation, say as well, the general manager wants to do this or

Adam Lamb:

upper level wants to do that, da da, da, and always kind of pushing off

Adam Lamb:

responsibility about what there is to do off to some unseen or unheard.

Adam Lamb:

entity.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Because I wanted to save my ass in front of my associates and not want to look bad.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

yet I also got that, that's pretty much a victim conversation because there's no

Adam Lamb:

way I can ever influence what's going on.

Adam Lamb:

And pretty soon they're gonna start looking at me going like, Well

Adam Lamb:

dude, if you can't protect us, then what the hell you here for?

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

So sometimes it means owning that, that that bad news.

Adam Lamb:

As a decision that I was involved in.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

, But I remember clearly plenty of conversations that I had with upper

Adam Lamb:

management, hr regional directors about specific staff members that

Adam Lamb:

those staff members never ever know and nor do I need to go there and,

Adam Lamb:

you know, You know, Hey, look at me.

Adam Lamb:

Look what I did.

Adam Lamb:

Because , that's to the opposite side of mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

, like making it all about hubris and me.

Adam Lamb:

And I've always wanted to make sure that there was a clear

Adam Lamb:

line of rateable performance.

Adam Lamb:

Like, what are the standards and are you living up to those standards or not?

Adam Lamb:

And so that meant that I couldn't manage by, by personality, whether

Adam Lamb:

I was, you know, winning one for the team or taking one for the team.

Adam Lamb:

Does that, does that resonate?

Adam Lamb:

. Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah, for sure.

Jim Taylor:

And I think the, you know, the things that we're talking about right now

Jim Taylor:

about protecting the team and about, you know, filtering information or

Jim Taylor:

how you, you know, what types of conversations you're having about

Jim Taylor:

the operation or the, the individuals working in it, you know, this stuff

Jim Taylor:

applies to every level of the business.

Jim Taylor:

And I know I, I, you know, I speak for both of us when I see that we've

Jim Taylor:

been, we've both experienced all those different levels of management

Jim Taylor:

and leadership and, you know, in, in lots of different environments.

Jim Taylor:

So, I mean, myself, I'm not I'm fully comfortable saying that this applies

Jim Taylor:

to every single level of management.

Jim Taylor:

That it's about the team.

Jim Taylor:

It's about making sure we deliver messages in a positive as positive way as possible.

Jim Taylor:

That, you know, everything that we go through in the industry, especially right

Jim Taylor:

now with the labor shortages, has to be.

Jim Taylor:

People centric.

Jim Taylor:

It has to be people focused.

Jim Taylor:

Cuz if it's not, it's only gonna get

Adam Lamb:

harder.

Adam Lamb:

I I love the questions that are starting to come up in

Adam Lamb:

some posts that I'm reading.

Adam Lamb:

People advocating you know deeper sense of mentorship as opposed to leadership.

Adam Lamb:

And, you know, one of the first questions is, you know, how can

Adam Lamb:

I, what can I do to make your job?

Adam Lamb:

. And I, I know that that's a tricky question and I know that some operators

Adam Lamb:

don't want to ask that because either they've never had it easy and don't

Adam Lamb:

necessarily feel responsibility to like, make anyone else's life easy.

Adam Lamb:

But I keep coming back to this idea of what it would be like to actually be

Adam Lamb:

in the operation by myself, . Because, because that's all that's left.

Adam Lamb:

And so I think speaking to our listeners quandary.

Adam Lamb:

It's like when you go to speak to your direct reports and saying,

Adam Lamb:

Okay, so what kind of operation do you see that's possible?

Adam Lamb:

And, you know, I don't want to necessarily have to make a call around to the other

Adam Lamb:

departments because I'm short bus boys and, and I need somebody on the floor.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

. And so painting a picture of what the possibilities are probably

Adam Lamb:

lends itself to a bigger conversation about, okay, so if that's what's

Adam Lamb:

possible, what do we actually need to.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

What support do we need?

Adam Lamb:

Right?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, there's another part to this entire conversation that,

Adam Lamb:

that I'll get to in a minute.

Adam Lamb:

But this is one of the reasons why you and I talk so consistently about values.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

and standards.

Adam Lamb:

Not necessarily as.

Adam Lamb:

From an organizational standpoint, but from an individual's standpoint, you know,

Adam Lamb:

this person as a hospitality professional.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Next week we're gonna be lucky enough to have been able to wrangle Jensen Cum.

Adam Lamb:

Onto the show, which is always a gas.

Adam Lamb:

And the topic of the show is what do you stand for?

Adam Lamb:

So in a lot of my coaching, that's exactly where we need to

Adam Lamb:

start, is what do you stand for?

Adam Lamb:

What's important to you?

Adam Lamb:

What are those incorruptible values that you have?

Adam Lamb:

And then how do you match that with an employer?

Adam Lamb:

So now this particular associate is in this position where she probably feels

Adam Lamb:

like her hands are tied a little bit.

Adam Lamb:

She stated quite clearly that, you know, she's been coming home

Adam Lamb:

and feeling kind of defeated.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

which is a feeling that I know very well.

Adam Lamb:

And just say, I'm sorry that you're going through that right now.

Adam Lamb:

, and there are a couple ways in which you can turn this, not necessarily to your

Adam Lamb:

advantage, but your team's advantage.

Adam Lamb:

But the only way that that's actually gonna work is if you're

Adam Lamb:

focused entirely on the team and what you can do to so assist them.

Adam Lamb:

And it may be as simple as, , you know, having more shift meetings, you know?

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

and saying, Listen, times are tough.

Adam Lamb:

During Covid I had several meetings a day with shift personnel and

Adam Lamb:

there was very little information that I could share, cuz none of us

Adam Lamb:

knew what the hell was going on.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

, and yet the job still needed to be d.

Adam Lamb:

So I think that, , like putting yourself out there as a barometer for what's

Adam Lamb:

happening in the operation and in the community is important because where

Adam Lamb:

else are they gonna get that information?

Adam Lamb:

And even if you don't have the answers mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

that you ask the questions.

Adam Lamb:

Because very often what we're finding is that one of the very top reasons

Adam Lamb:

that people leave an organization is because of communication or lack thereof.

Adam Lamb:

So.

Adam Lamb:

What would you suggest as far as like trying to hold this team

Adam Lamb:

together for the short term?

Adam Lamb:

Like what, what do those conversations sound like?

Adam Lamb:

Well, in,

Jim Taylor:

in that level, you know, where this individual is at, they're

Jim Taylor:

in a, it seems to me like they're in a, in a mid-level management mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

position, right?

Jim Taylor:

Yep.

Jim Taylor:

And one of the hardest things that I was found in that position

Jim Taylor:

is the, the balance between.

Jim Taylor:

I'm reporting to somebody whether I agree with what they, the direction

Jim Taylor:

they wanna see the business go or not.

Jim Taylor:

And then there's all of these people that are relying on me every day.

Jim Taylor:

You know, deliver for them.

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

and, you know, that only gets harder when you know you're in a position like

Jim Taylor:

she's describing where she's feeling defeated and that type of thing.

Jim Taylor:

And, you know, me personally, the way that I always tried to, to work

Jim Taylor:

through those situations cuz they happen and mm-hmm , they come up.

Jim Taylor:

Was that, you know, to recognize that my wins were the team's wins.

Jim Taylor:

Right?

Jim Taylor:

If an employee had a great day and I had anything to do with that, or I, I

Jim Taylor:

talked them through it, or we worked on something together, we provided

Jim Taylor:

training or development or mentorship for them, then that was a win for me.

Jim Taylor:

You know, and, and I sort of tried to feed off of that type of stuff.

Jim Taylor:

because looking.

Jim Taylor:

In a scenario, like she's talking about looking upwards

Jim Taylor:

for that motivation apparent.

Jim Taylor:

It's not happening right now.

Jim Taylor:

Right, Right.

Jim Taylor:

So there needs to be other ways to stay, you know, stay, stay focused, and stay

Jim Taylor:

centered and stay, you know, with your, with your eye on the price kind of thing.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

And I think in that scenario, that's really tricky in that position where

Jim Taylor:

you've got, you know, that mid-level type

Adam Lamb:

responsibility.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

I think.

Adam Lamb:

And this is not the first time that this type of conversation has come up for

Adam Lamb:

us especially since the show started.

Adam Lamb:

And unfortunately for some folks when the disconnect is so

Adam Lamb:

significant and the polarities are so far apart, then it becomes a time

Adam Lamb:

of really thinking about yourself.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah, About your, your own mental health, your own physical health,

Adam Lamb:

your own emotional health.

Adam Lamb:

And it may be necessary to seek that type of.

Adam Lamb:

Congruent employment elsewhere.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

. And I hate to say that because I, I even spoke to a chef the other

Adam Lamb:

night where, I asked him, what does he really like about being there

Adam Lamb:

at this particular organization?

Adam Lamb:

And his answer was, he would feel guilty leaving his team.

Adam Lamb:

So he never really, he never really gave me a positive, but what was, what

Adam Lamb:

was present for him was this feeling of like, guilt and maybe shame about

Adam Lamb:

the fact that he, he's, you know, done the good, done the good job.

Adam Lamb:

Brought this team together.

Adam Lamb:

He's had family members bring other family members there to work with him.

Adam Lamb:

Yet his first emotion was not wanting to leave because he felt guilty.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And I so resonate with that, especially after a time spent really coming from

Adam Lamb:

your heart and building a team because you know that that's what's best for them.

Adam Lamb:

And their own emotional security or emotional.

Adam Lamb:

But at some point, man, you, you have to be clear-eyed about the

Adam Lamb:

fact that, that you've gone about as far as you can and, Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Just a quick story.

Adam Lamb:

I took over a I was asked to, I'm sorry.

Adam Lamb:

I was gonna apply for a particular position at a, at a retirement

Adam Lamb:

community here in Asheville.

Adam Lamb:

And at the time, the person that was in the.

Adam Lamb:

Position currently wasn't leaving for a while, so I was asked to go in and do

Adam Lamb:

an assessment of the culinary operation.

Adam Lamb:

So after about a week, I spoke to everybody involved and it was clear

Adam Lamb:

that there was some really let's say unproductive behavior going on.

Adam Lamb:

So the chef and the food and beverage director who shared

Adam Lamb:

an office space didn't.

Adam Lamb:

Rest of the organization to know if there was any dysfunction in their department.

Adam Lamb:

So very often they'd say, Okay, understand the problem, we're gonna take care of

Adam Lamb:

it, and it would never go any further.

Adam Lamb:

As a consequence, none of the sta, none of the staff felt comfortable

Adam Lamb:

going to human resources, which is there for a particular function, and

Adam Lamb:

none of the problems ever got solved.

Adam Lamb:

So these two individuals were kind of codependent with one.

Adam Lamb:

and they ran the department so tight that it was a Chinese fire

Adam Lamb:

drill every day and people were just walking around with their heads bow.

Adam Lamb:

I mean it was really sad.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

The way everybody was.

Adam Lamb:

And about a week after I put my assessment in, I got a text from the

Adam Lamb:

chef saying, Haha, I got a new job.

Adam Lamb:

And bailed on the tire operation.

Adam Lamb:

So I was asked, Hey, can you come in and bridge us from chef to.

Adam Lamb:

Hmm.

Adam Lamb:

Just to let you know, food and beverage director position

Adam Lamb:

is we found somebody for that.

Adam Lamb:

So I'm like, fine.

Adam Lamb:

And then about three weeks later they told me that that person had ghosted

Adam Lamb:

them and I ended up doing both jobs.

Adam Lamb:

So they said, Hey, do you wanna stay here and do the job anyway?

Adam Lamb:

And I said, Sure.

Adam Lamb:

Formally, and this organization had grown from, you know, basically a

Adam Lamb:

hundred residents to 650 residents in the space of about six.

Adam Lamb:

So they were operating it as a kind of mom and pop, yet it was large enough,

Adam Lamb:

a hundred people in the department.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

But there had to be certain structures in place that didn't exist before.

Adam Lamb:

So there was no standardized job classifications.

Adam Lamb:

There was no standardized pay.

Adam Lamb:

Everybody pays was going all over the place.

Adam Lamb:

So for me, the first thing that was going in there and just getting

Adam Lamb:

everybody around a table and saying, Okay, so these are the issues.

Adam Lamb:

This is kind of like the line of.

Adam Lamb:

And this is what we can get done.

Adam Lamb:

And it took long time to get, say, job classifications done, because everybody

Adam Lamb:

wants to have their two sense in.

Adam Lamb:

But during that process somehow I lost the faith of my direct report.

Adam Lamb:

She started shopping outside the organization for someone to take my

Adam Lamb:

position and then not telling me about it.

Adam Lamb:

But the point being is that once I lost her confidence, then it was virtually

Adam Lamb:

impossible for me to move the operation.

Adam Lamb:

One of the most important things that we were able to introduce

Adam Lamb:

and, and still happens, there is a complete second day orientation.

Adam Lamb:

So, an orientation period might be something that's easily doable.

Adam Lamb:

You don't, necess don't necessarily need a lot of buy-in from

Adam Lamb:

everybody to make that happen.

Adam Lamb:

But from the standpoint of the new hires, they knew exactly where they were

Adam Lamb:

gonna slot in and what was expected.

Adam Lamb:

and how they could move through the organization.

Adam Lamb:

And those three things were really, really important for people to just

Adam Lamb:

kind of like, not worry about where they were and what was possible.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And that's why I say, you know, this is a great time for everyone in the industry to

Adam Lamb:

really consider what's important to them.

Adam Lamb:

You know, what's kind of in volatile, like things that they're not gonna give up.

Adam Lamb:

Like, I need transparency, vulnerability, and honesty.

Adam Lamb:

. Yep.

Adam Lamb:

And you.

Adam Lamb:

Remembering that you're not the one that's, you know, yes,

Adam Lamb:

they're interviewing you, but you're also interviewing them.

Adam Lamb:

So maybe stick around and talk to a few people, you know, as the shift

Adam Lamb:

ends and talk to some employees that are still working there.

Adam Lamb:

And they're platforms out there, employment platforms

Adam Lamb:

that have reviews of employers.

Adam Lamb:

And so these are all kind of part and parcel of the, of the coaching moving

Adam Lamb:

forward as people start to figure out where they most want to be and, and,

Adam Lamb:

and looking for the organizations that are gonna take them there.

Adam Lamb:

That's the one piece, like being very, very clear about what you stand for and

Adam Lamb:

where you're gonna go to, to be able to be incongruence with that, and then finding

Adam Lamb:

yourself in a situation where, Jim, like you said, it could always be that it's

Adam Lamb:

been just a rough couple years, right?

Adam Lamb:

? Sure.

Adam Lamb:

It doesn't, doesn't necessarily always need to be mismanagement

Adam Lamb:

or poor leadership.

Adam Lamb:

It could be the supply chain has been broken.

Adam Lamb:

It could have been covid, it could have been a bunch of different things, and now

Adam Lamb:

you're, you're presented with a situation where you've got anywhere from 10 to

Adam Lamb:

30 to 50 to a hundred people who are looking to you to bring them all together.

Adam Lamb:

And again, what's step number one,

Jim Taylor:

Yeah, I think, I think we're on the same page that step

Jim Taylor:

number one is talk to your people.

Jim Taylor:

Step number one is check in.

Jim Taylor:

Step number one is, you know, ask people what they need and

Jim Taylor:

ask yourself what you need.

Jim Taylor:

You know, you made a comment a few minutes ago that I feel like I can't

Jim Taylor:

not touch on, and that was the, I feel guilty if I leave my team.

Jim Taylor:

Yes.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

We, we talk about retention being the new cool all the time.

Jim Taylor:

Stick around out of guilt, that's not cool.

Jim Taylor:

Stick around out of fear.

Jim Taylor:

That's not cool.

Jim Taylor:

You know, stick around because it aligns with values.

Jim Taylor:

Stick align because you, or stick around because you feel

Jim Taylor:

protected by your employer.

Jim Taylor:

Stick around because you know you're passionate about the mission.

Jim Taylor:

That's the, the part of retention that's cool.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

You know, I think that we need to, that goes for both employees making sure that

Jim Taylor:

they are aligned with the values and the mission of the organization they work for.

Jim Taylor:

And that goes for.

Jim Taylor:

People who run the organization, making sure that they're doing what

Jim Taylor:

they can to protect their people so they don't feel guilty staying, I

Jim Taylor:

mean, that's not good for anybody,

Adam Lamb:

right?

Adam Lamb:

Aaron Fish is just chiming in, good friend of ours.

Adam Lamb:

Transparency and honesty, It seems obvious, but it's not always there.

Adam Lamb:

And mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

yeah, this idea of over-communication I, I don't think can be understated.

Adam Lamb:

And yet you might have some people in your team who are.

Adam Lamb:

Like, dude, that's just a bunch of words.

Adam Lamb:

Like really, where's the action?

Adam Lamb:

And unless we're throwing ourselves into the breach of a particular operation,

Adam Lamb:

it's very hard for people to, I should say, it's hard to gain their trust and

Adam Lamb:

confidence if you're not willing to jump in and do the things that are the most.

Adam Lamb:

You know, uncomfortable for you.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, I'm a big fan of mopping.

Adam Lamb:

I love a good mopping

Adam Lamb:

. Jim Taylor: I didn't know that about you.

Adam Lamb:

No, I, listen,

Adam Lamb:

it's good to know.

Adam Lamb:

It's kind of kind of the the movie with Jim Carey about meeting

Adam Lamb:

God and he's just, you know, a janitor mopping this perennial floor.

Adam Lamb:

There is something to be said about manual labor, especially

Adam Lamb:

in times of great change.

Adam Lamb:

You know, there may not be a whole lot that you can.

Adam Lamb:

Operationally to change things, but if you're willing to roll up your elbows

Adam Lamb:

and grab a mop or do whatever that looks like, it's it's empowering to your staff.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And at the same time, you're going through this discovery process

Adam Lamb:

about what's important to you.

Adam Lamb:

You know, you could also be doing that with your staff, and it may

Adam Lamb:

be that that means some of your staff leave and that's okay.

Adam Lamb:

People leaving an organization can be a, an incredibly positive act and

Adam Lamb:

reinvigorate the organization with people who are coming in with a

Adam Lamb:

much more enthusiastic attitude.

Adam Lamb:

And I, I liken it to, you know, infecting the organism with positivity, right?

Adam Lamb:

? Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

You get enough people in there of the same mind connected to the same thing.

Adam Lamb:

Again, this can be done through, you know, really great hiring processes

Adam Lamb:

and, and really in depth conversations with potential staff members.

Adam Lamb:

But it could very well be that you start bringing in staff members

Adam Lamb:

that are more aligned to how you view running an operation.

Adam Lamb:

And after a while they start infecting everyone around them.

Adam Lamb:

. Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

That, that mopping thing, I mean, I have, again, I

Jim Taylor:

have to go back and comment on that.

Jim Taylor:

I can't be without . I can't, I can't let you get away with that one.

Jim Taylor:

Okay.

Jim Taylor:

For one, If I ever have a chance to come to your house, I'm gonna expect

Jim Taylor:

that you have really clean floors.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah, you gotta but that, you know, to me, that that speaks to a certain

Jim Taylor:

approach around the, you know, the whole concept of servant leadership, right?

Jim Taylor:

You're doing something that you don't have to do that nobody expects you to do, but

Jim Taylor:

it's gonna make your team's life easier.

Jim Taylor:

And sometimes it's the simplest things.

Jim Taylor:

You know, the one that, and for anybody who might listen to this that ever

Jim Taylor:

worked with me, the one that I, the thing I always tried to do was and

Jim Taylor:

another partner of ours, Doug New Hill, Kim and I were talking about this

Jim Taylor:

yesterday, taking tray trays full of dirty dishes away from staff and just

Jim Taylor:

taking them to the dish area so that they can spend time with their customer.

Jim Taylor:

That was, I always used to find it so funny, the look that I would get if I

Jim Taylor:

took a tray of dirty dishes away from an.

Jim Taylor:

They would look at me like, What are you doing?

Jim Taylor:

What planet are you from?

Jim Taylor:

You know, and, and it wasn't anything really serious that was going, you know,

Jim Taylor:

change their day dramatically, but it just made their life a little bit easier.

Jim Taylor:

So that was something I always tried to do.

Jim Taylor:

I don't like mopping, so that was never my, my go to

Jim Taylor:

. Adam Lamb: No, but I mean, you bring up

Jim Taylor:

that you're talking about, you know, all of a sudden they feel that arm get really.

Jim Taylor:

They're not expecting that and the trade disappears in their head.

Jim Taylor:

Like, what?

Jim Taylor:

Yeah, they gotta turn around.

Jim Taylor:

And I, I feel it's necessary to kind of hammer this point.

Jim Taylor:

None of this stuff costs money, right?

Jim Taylor:

And none of this, none of this costs any time getting it approved

Jim Taylor:

by upper management, right?

Jim Taylor:

And it could be that you start a relationship with a staff

Jim Taylor:

member that extends beyond this particular location and employment.

Jim Taylor:

It could be that you start.

Jim Taylor:

You know, pulling together a cadre of people who really respect you and will

Jim Taylor:

follow you to the wall, as they say.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

And you know, they, they're waiting for your call three months later.

Jim Taylor:

Hey, I've landed on my feet.

Jim Taylor:

Here we go.

Jim Taylor:

And are you ready to make a move?

Jim Taylor:

A hundred percent.

Jim Taylor:

And you know what, the funny thing about it that I always was, I shouldn't,

Jim Taylor:

you know, this might be the wrong word, but I was always entertained

Jim Taylor:

mildly by the conversation that that.

Jim Taylor:

You know, and Aaron Fish is now saying his was jumping in the dish,

Jim Taylor:

in the dish area to help clean that up or mopping or grabbing the tray.

Jim Taylor:

You know, it wasn't about, I, I can't tell you how many times I had

Jim Taylor:

to explain to staff, I'm not doing this because you didn't do it right.

Jim Taylor:

I'm doing this because, So you don't have to, Right, right.

Jim Taylor:

I'm not mopping cuz the floor's dirty and I'm annoyed that you're not doing it.

Jim Taylor:

I'm mopping.

Jim Taylor:

So you don't.

Jim Taylor:

I'm trying to help make your day easier.

Jim Taylor:

I'm trying to help make your job easier.

Jim Taylor:

Right, Right.

Jim Taylor:

It's different.

Jim Taylor:

There's a difference there.

Adam Lamb:

Well, and after, and after a staff has been beat down and thought

Adam Lamb:

that everything was an indictment on their work performance, to have somebody

Adam Lamb:

come in that just wants to help might be an initial shock, and to be able

Adam Lamb:

to have that second, Hey, listen, if I'm, you know, busting your tables or

Adam Lamb:

whatever, it's not because you can't get to it, it's because I want to make your.

Adam Lamb:

And so you don't have to, right?

Adam Lamb:

And Doug's just chime in, sail, nailed it.

Adam Lamb:

You know, bend an extra arm, leg, even brain if you need to.

Adam Lamb:

Whatever you can do to alleviate their stress and smile while you're doing it.

Adam Lamb:

And to Doug's point, I haven't always been really good about smiling while I'm

Adam Lamb:

doing it because I'm feeling the pressure, like they're feeling the pressure.

Adam Lamb:

And I might be, you know, dripping down for that second, you know, and making more

Adam Lamb:

of a point of buzzing around the dining.

Adam Lamb:

Grabbing trays or busing tables so that my staff can actually

Adam Lamb:

reset those tables, reset those tables, and take care of the guest.

Adam Lamb:

And it's not always intu as intuitive as, as as doing the dirtiest job.

Adam Lamb:

Sometimes it's looking and see where the greatest need is.

Adam Lamb:

Absolutely.

Jim Taylor:

But it's all about protecting your people.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, to just to.

Adam Lamb:

Again, kind of hit hammer the nail.

Adam Lamb:

You know, Benchmark 60 and its productivity metric is one of the best

Adam Lamb:

ways to protect staff, especially if they know that you're actually doing it.

Adam Lamb:

Because again, there are some things that you're gonna be doing

Adam Lamb:

as a manager that's not necessarily important to share with your staff.

Adam Lamb:

But if your staff knows that you are actually deploying a technology that

Adam Lamb:

will protect their workload such.

Adam Lamb:

The opportunities for them to be overworked, become less and less.

Adam Lamb:

And not only that gives us an opportunity to staff the restaurant appropriately.

Adam Lamb:

That's gonna go a long way into making sure that that staff feels

Adam Lamb:

comfortable, protected, and, you know, they're not gonna jump ship to

Adam Lamb:

a quarter or 50 cents because they probably can't find that anywhere else.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

I mean, we, we've had lots of interesting discussion with,

Jim Taylor:

with restaurant operators lately.

Jim Taylor:

, there's so much conversation happening about work life balance.

Jim Taylor:

Mm.

Jim Taylor:

Great.

Jim Taylor:

Resignation, work from home, all these different things.

Jim Taylor:

Most of that conversation is on the life side of the conversation, but that

Jim Taylor:

workload thing that you're talking about is, is focusing on the work part of it.

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

, because it's, it's kind of a loss if you go on vacation, you know, let's

Jim Taylor:

say there's an unlimited vacation.

Jim Taylor:

, which is awesome, but every time you go on vacation, you come back to work and

Jim Taylor:

you're stressed the minute you get back,

Adam Lamb:

right?

Adam Lamb:

Because everything's just been piled up on your desk, , right?

Adam Lamb:

If we can

Jim Taylor:

prevent that through managing workload and looking at things

Jim Taylor:

differently that way, it's gonna make the employee experience that much

Jim Taylor:

better and, you know, improve retention.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

So that's a, that's a discussion for

Adam Lamb:

another day though.

Adam Lamb:

Another day and chiming in Jemma's focus has always been the lobby and bathrooms.

Adam Lamb:

Because as a customer, that's my first point of contact.

Adam Lamb:

And yes, it doesn't really matter whose name is on the checklist, , to go in

Adam Lamb:

there and to make sure that not only that it's getting done, but that you might.

Adam Lamb:

Actually do something to alleviate someone else's rounds.

Adam Lamb:

And I'm really grateful for all our friends and listeners,

Adam Lamb:

Aaron Fish, Doug Jemiah.

Adam Lamb:

We actually had a first time listener Lathan, Sandy Gumby from From

Adam Lamb:

Africa, Cape Town, South Africa.

Adam Lamb:

So the message is getting out there.

Adam Lamb:

Like our listener who wrote into us, Please dm.

Adam Lamb:

Either Jim or I send us an email.

Adam Lamb:

We'd love to know what's going on and how we can provide content

Adam Lamb:

that's really going to serve you.

Adam Lamb:

Because this show is all about solutions.

Adam Lamb:

Yet, we know that sometimes you can't talk about a solution until

Adam Lamb:

you can identify the problem.

Adam Lamb:

So thank you very much for joining us for this episode of Benchmark,

Adam Lamb:

Our sixties, Turning the Table, and just some programming notes.

Adam Lamb:

So next week we're gonna have Jensen Cummings.

Adam Lamb:

We're also gonna have Michelle Moreno and and Kelly feathering

Adam Lamb:

him is has confirmed.

Adam Lamb:

Second episode with us for the ABCs.

Adam Lamb:

So we're really looking forward to that.

Adam Lamb:

So we've got a busy November, December, just like you guys and we're all in

Adam Lamb:

this together, so thank you very much.